ADVICE:

If your Prince Charming has been married before, why not call up the ex-wife to hear her side of the story? You might learn something. You might learn that his stories about her are right on the money, she IS the "screaming b**** from hell." Or, you might find out that he's been feeding you a long string of lies/misrepresentations/half-truths. COUld be pretty interesting.

If I EVER find myself seriously interested in another fellow, I am certainly gonna pick up that phone and give her (them) a call!

Melissa

Thank you Melissa for your post. I appreciate the information and I will use it to my best ability. I am trying to gain the strength to reach out more, but I am afraid of contacting agencies just yet as they will inform him of what I am doing and will undoubtedly make things much worse while I am planning my escape.

Last night he said he wanted to talk. He started by asking me how I thought the park went to day (brief background for you; my daughter's friends from her prior school had a get together for all the kids since a lot of them are now at different schools. They all grew up together since they were babies at the daycare and are like family to eachother. It was mostly moms and kids. I mentioned that to him when he said he'd be going too, so that he was aware that there were no other men there for him to talk to so he'd probably be bored. We ended up taking separate cars. He never attends this type of event (there used to be a lot of birthday parties). His 'vibe' was one of a pushy type kind of 'I know you don't want me there, so I'm going anyway'. Later at the park he said to me that he pictured this event being a bunch of 'lesbian man haters' getting together to bash men so that's why he came. I was disgusted. Where did he get such an idea. He left early.) So back to his question about how the park went. I said it went fine the kids all had a great time. He said he tried to give me a hug when he left but that I was cold. I said I didn't notice that anything went wrong. He was looking for something to blame me for and was acting like the hurt victim.

And so starts his monologue. I have taken the silent approach and it seems to be working accept that he is noticing that I'm not giving him any new 'material' to work with. So I start to repeat the things I've said before about his behavior. I'll get about 5-10 words out and he interupts me and detrails my input. I point out that's what he's done, and then he tells me to stop yelling at him and he says "wait a minute" I need to defend myself (meaning him). Then he changed into the "motivational speaker" personality and he says he's trying to pull me back out of my 'funk' (this is what he calls my quiet moods when I'm not behaving as if we're the perfect happy couple) - I said that I'm being honest with him about my feelings because I'm not pretending that everything is good between us. He asked me if my feelings are christian and Godly. - it feels like he's using God to get me to 'ok' his behavior and "move on" as he says.

This is the short version of about a two hour monologue so you're missing some of the details but the point of my telling you this is that he said he realizes that what I want is a divorce and that he is not going to agree to that and if I do divorce him that he is going to get his 50% of our daughter.

He says he's not going to quit on me. He's not giving up. He wants us to go to church together and then go on a date afterward so we can have some 'us' time. I told him I don't want to go on a date with him and he won't hear it. He said it's my chance to 'pick the movie I want' and we can do what I want. . He told me I was being childish by saying I don't want to go on the date. Last week when he said he wanted a date and asked me when we're going to go out, I was quiet and said nothing and he said next Saturday and I'll even let you pay for my movie ticket.

I do know I have to get us out, but as I've said before, he is FANTASTICLY good at sounding like a prize. After listening to his motivational speach last night, I can understand why I was fooled for so many years.

By the way, during his monologue he mentioned another phrase I've said only to my dad which was a few months ago and only in my car. So if he's been listening in on all of my conversations for that long, he already knows what I've said to my mom about my fears of his personality and the documentation etc. Which could be why I'm now hearing him accuse me of being bi-polar and insane.

Another thing you should know. The birthday parties and get togethers are ok for us to attend because it helps him keep up the appearance of being the perfect family; and because the relationships are kept at arms length. If I were to start getting closer with any one of them, he would find something wrong with them and create an excuse for not continuting the friendship. He would say they are bad somehow. - It wouldn't matter if it were Mother Theresa, he could create a reason why they were bad or evil in some way, enough to cause us to end the friendship. So while he was at the park, I didn't engage in any conversations with the moms, but stayed right on top of my daughter (not giving her space to play with the other kids). When he left, that changed. I gave her space, and all the moms worked together to keep an eye on the kids. None of them know any of the issues I've talked about here and none of us 'man bash'.

Thank you SO MUCH for this forum and for taking the time to read through this mess. I feel like I am one step closer to getting out. I just need enough proof of his behavior that can't be explained away so that I can get a restraining order when I leave. I'll have to keep her out of school during that process so timing is everything. If I don't then he is likely to take her from school and keep her from me. I don't want her to be in the middle of a tug-of-war. I struggle with that every minute of everyday. Sometimes I think that I should just leave on the basis of his alcoholism and stop trying to prove everything else. But I worry that that won't be enough. What do you think? I think I can prove at least that since he's been to the doctor for pain in his gut caused by his drinking and his weight. Maybe I can get his medical records to prove he has this problem. What I have a problem getting is photo's and video of him when he's drunk. He is too aware that it can be used as evidence and won't let me take his picture and if I do, he would delete or destroy it. But I do have photo's of the alcohol he has stashed, but that doesn't prove it's his. He could say it's mine and we'd be in a he said she said.

Ouch. You ARE in the middle of a muddle.

A friend told me that these guys have only three personas: RESCUER. ABUSER. VICTIM. I haven't seen this in anything written, but it is an interesting way to view their behavior. First, he acts as the RESCUER which feels wonderful to us - loving, caring, all that. Then he starts in with the ABUSER stuff, and when you accuse him, he slips into VICTIM mode. Then it starts all over again.

I appreciate that you have experimented with the silent approach - "Silence is often the best answer." Keep it up.

I also think it's really really creepy that you think he's been listening to your private conversations! But it doesn't surprise that he takes excerpts out of them to use against you.

Try to keep in mind that he lies, all the time. Everything he says/does is to assert his power over you, to control you. The "motivational speaker approach" is just a variation on the RESCUER mode.

Courage, dear. Did you read what I wrote earlier about the three-sided birdcage? A counselor told me once that feeling trapped is like being in a three-sided birdcage = looking to the front, it looks like I'm caged in. But if I can just crane my neck around to the back, I could see that there IS an escape route. You, too, can escape. I actually hung up a bottomless birdcage in my office to remind me while I was figuring out how to get out.

It will take courage and planning and a clear hear. And a clear understanding that he lies all the time. And that he doesn't love you, can't love you. Doesn't love your daughter either, can't. He's an empty shell.

big big hugs - keep talking. And try to find someone you can talk to in person that can help you legally - an attorney? women's shelter administrator?

all blessings and good luck!
Melissa

Hi, would your mom help shelter you while going through all of this. I know of a victim who through great determination was able to get supervised visits with their daughter. She has devoted her life to get to that point. Children do have a right for their own attorney from what I understand.

Track all the community property, make sure he hasn't forged the deed to your home and been stashing money.

How long after you met him did you marry?

Try hiding one of those nanny cams in the area where he usually has his drunken, cruel rages. They are cheap and I would agree with Jan to put as many around the house including the entrance to show the progression. Check to see what the laws are in your state as far as recording phone calls. There is a site online that lists the states who permit it. I am not sure if it is legal to record outgoing calls. Check everywhere including making sure he doesn't have a life insurance for you. Look at the cell phone records, being a detective can help present your case. You might find a girlfriend or two buried in those records.

I would stop trying to defend youself by reminding him of what a louse he is. I assume he is still living in the home with you and your daughter?

Your mom sounds terrific, can she handle the challenge and take in your daughter to not have her witness the madness? An attorney can help you navigate these tricky waters.

Remember one thing when you are presenting your case, stay calm, otherwise you will appear unstable and he will be cool as can be.

When looking for an attorney ask for an interview, most will give you a short interview. Also use your fingers to do the walking and call around and ask first if they know about dealing with Psychopaths. What the heck I would even call Gloria Alred (sic) you never know who will take on your case, preferably pro bono. A couple of times I called my favorite authors and was able to speak to them and schedule a luncheon when they were in town. My frieds were shocked and asked how I did it and I said I picked up the phone.

Also I would get your daughter with someone/ therapist or Psychologist who knows about Psychopath's to start the documentation process.

We are all here for you.

Di

Hi,

I've finally found the inner stuff to pack up and move out with our 5 1/2 year old daughter. We've had no contact for over a week, and it's been heavenly. I was able to get a restraining order and full temporary custody. My daughter has not once asked about him, has not verbally wondered where he is, or when she'll see him, or that she even misses him. I believe that speaks volumns about whether or not I made the right decision.

He is a teacher and the restraining order will cause him to lose the job he loves and that gives him all the admiration he craves- should this also be taken away, I will no doubt become his target (if not already) - and my daughter is right in the middle. I only wanted the restraining order to keep him away from us, I had no idea that it would affect his job until it was issued. I fear that if he's not already there, that this will most certainly push him over the edge. He has been amazingly quiet which is terrifying in itself. I'm having to attend school with her (thank goodness my employer is 100% behind me and supports me with whatever I need) just to have an extra set of eyes around, but I can't do that forever. I really don't want to have to change schools as she's been attending the same school since she was 4 months old and is now in kindergarten. She's developed a strong bond with her friends and starting her over elsewhere would be devistating for her. I am disgusted that he's the one with the problem but we're the ones that have to hide, and stay away from our normal places, friends, and family! It just isn't right! I can't even go to or volunteer at my church anymore for fear he will be there (not to worship but just to claim the territory because he knows I love it there).

The restraining order hearing is next week (the mediator hearing is next, then the divorce case)... where the judge will decide whether or not to keep the order in place and for how long. He seems to be abiding by it but only so that he can play the victim role to the hilt in court. The last time he had a monologue for me, he tried to convince me that I'm the crazy one. He kept repeating over and over and over that he thinks I'm psycologically imbalanced in the head, then he'd say 'think about it!'. then he took our daughter out of her own bed while she was sleeping and made her watch a sitcom meant for adults and locked his bedroom door. I had moved out of the master bedroom the week before because he never turns off the tv and I can't sleep. Every night I ask him to turn it off and he never will, so I moved out. His locking his bedroom door, keeping me out while she was in there with him, was the final straw, I moved us out the next morning while he was at work.

I'm hoping in the end that all the notes I took will be enough to finally be rid of him. They are the only thing I have that even comes close to anything that backs up my side of the story. I can only pray that others have the ability to see through him and realize he is not what he says he is. Am I being completely unrealistic? What advice do you have for me at this point? Thank you, Helpout.

Hi, helpout, this is truly great news. I wonder how the school would find out, if they don't get notified your peace might extend since he will know he is on thin ice if they do.

You are being realistic there is no good to come being with a Psychopath. How long has he been a teacher and has he relied on you for $?

Hold your head high, you will be wasting your time to talk about him to others, except us or a close friend. Don't let any gossip from him get a rise out of you. In the end your true friends will either stick around or come back around. Many times that is one of the toughest situations, you wil see who your true friends through this. You could try to convince others until the cows come home and other people will do what they want, either listening to his lies etc. Come up with a standard avoidance line, like, well things didn't work out and now I must focus on my child, thank you for asking, excuse me but I something I have to do, end of comment.

Di

wow yours sounds just like my soon ex husband and what im going through, he trys to make me look like Im crazy and is using it in court to try and take my daughter away in a week, and like hes the victom. he has witnesses on his side, even got my 17yr old on his side when she was vulnerable after she moved out and she hated him having nothing to do with him. he has been extra sweet to her. Because mom wont let her do whatever she wants with drinking, sex, and all. I hope things go well for you. I hope he dont get my daughter. so far he has won every time. this is my last chance in court

Hi Helpout,

One of the first things I did when I realized who I was dealing with was to change all the passswords to my computers and e-mail accounts.

I also started writing all the facts related to serious behavior problems, dates, quotes, so I'd have them if needed. He refused to stay overnight w/ our teenage son (so he could be w/ the new woman)and I saved the e-mail in which he tries to justify this; I also noted the dates of the 4 times in almost 5 months he did stay overnight w/ our son-our state determines the amount of support the non custodial parent pays, in part, based on number of overnights.....

When it became clear to me that my lawyer was not in any way getting the degree of his dishonesty, letting him get away w/ stuff, not taking on his lawyer, being condescending to me ("Have you considered going into therapy"), clearly buying into his version of reality, etc. etc. I fired her and hsve found a new one who is sharp, understands about personality disorders and beleives me, what a difference. No more good girl to my own disadvantage.

I alos printed out a number of incriminatng checks etc. from his checking account, requested copies of our joint credit card statments going back a year (he used to pay that bill and throw it away...)so now I have a lot of evidene about his cheating and dishonesty-a $400 electronic toy he charged to the family account days before he told me he wanted a divorce-had found a new target, lucky me.

Good luck,
Sparkle

Hi, Helpout - I was delighted to find your post from last fall. Good for you for getting yourself and your daughter out of the house!!! How goes it now? I certainly hope you have found some savvy people (lawyer, judge) to understand what/who you are up against and help you out.

And how's your daughter? I would like to say that (1) kids are pretty resilient, and (2) it might be better to move her to a new school and start over again in a safe place than to keep her in the same school and deal daily with the Psychopath. Just a thought - I don't really know your situation, of course, but it might be better to keep her safe in a new place. I know it's annoying that WE have to be the ones to adjust to our weirdo husband's problems, but hey, sometimes that's the way it is.

But, I will also say this. I had to make the same decision to stay/leave this very small town. I decided to stay, and it's been a good thing. If I had moved away last year, I would have carried with me the idea that he was a potent bad guy ... in staying, I have watched his power drain away. He no longer has the least bit of power over me. And that feels good. It also appears that he has lost influence over a lot of people. I have heard that some folks have actively shunned him, which I never expected - he's such a glad-hander, "friendly" guy. But now that his cover has been blown, he's living a very different life.

So, keep that in mind. Often it seems that once the Psychopath's attention is diverted from you to his newest victim, he just ain't so scary any more.

With hopes that all goes well for you and your daughter,
Melissa

Holiday Help ideas wanted. Holidays can be stressful times with a Psychopath.
How do you cope with a Psychopath during Holidays?
I use avoidance of family, people,places-of Psychopath.
I use excuses. I get blamed for being selfish, breaking with,lacking family tradition..
I feel pressured to keep the peace,visit or allow visits.
I justify my reasons not to engage with Psychopath and family.
It's very complicated,lonely for my family,myself.
I feel judgmental,self righteous towards the Psychopath and family.
I hurry through,shorten visits-coping is difficult.
Any ideas, coping suggestions appreciated.


This (web)info kinda helps me. The affirmations are good.
Sounds simple,its not that simple in real life situations.
It does help though.
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-to-not-go-back-hook-up-during.html