Hi!

It was 8 years ago since I first came on this board - a long time. Since then I decided to make a new life for myself in another country but have had to go back to the town where the ex lives with my sons but I have not seen him for 2 years though I have not done too well in recovery as I still feel the shock somewhat of the way my sons turned against me when he forced me out of the house. I think that his drinking was a primary reason why he wanted shot of me so he did not have me watching how much he drank etc. So now 8 years on and he is in the late stages of alcoholism. I have been to an Al-Anon meeting and would value some support and maybe help my sons cope with living with an alcoholic but the ethos of the program seems to me to maybe harmful if one is dealing with a Psychopath. For a start you are told that they have an illness which makes you sympathise with them and then there are the stories of those who got into a program once their partners got treatment and worked on themselves so that feeds into the magical thinking that maybe you can get back together.

On the 12 steps you look at your own faults but my ex blamed me for all the problems so I feel I don`t need this - I need to be blaming him more not less due to his manipulation which works now with his sons. So I wonder what others here think about the program.

mati

Hi Mati,
I feel complete admiration,support and concern for you.
You as a parent and for having alcoholism and psychopathy to accept in your relationship with your X.
The challenges of alcoholism and Psychopath's are very understated in this forum.
Alcoholism is a problem for most Psychopath's.
As a parent I feel for you and the separation you are dealing with.
I have been separated from two of my son's as well.
I understand how it feels to be isolated,feel rejected and blamed when a Psychopath draws sides between a parent and their children.
The end stages of alcoholism are very rocky times.
Psychopath's will often become more impulsive.
Delirium can be a part of end stages of alcoholism.
Things can be said that will not make any sense.
Medical support may be needed for the Psychopath.
It is a very emotional time for you and your family.
Acceptance may be difficult,we feel cheated out of....
Blame is close to the surface.
It is hard for people not to place,dis-place blame.
Answers will fill in and replace the blame in time.
It takes patience.
There is no easy way to experience the life of a person,Psychopath or not who has taken the path of self destruction.
It is not your fault.
Free will is. Psychopath's do have free will also.
Mourning the outcomes of alcoholism may last a lifetime.
It is okay to mourn.
It is hard to accept that another person has made detrimental choices.
When the choices effect their health in visible ways it is even harder to accept.
Sometimes we strike out with bitter actions.
Those close to us are the first to feel our hope and despair.
We feel so many things,hurt,anger,rejection.
We ask ourselves why our love,care and emotions were not enough to matter.
We feel our intentions were in vain.
Nobody heard,cared or wanted our feelings.
We scream from the inside."what is wrong with me"
"why did I let this happen"
Truth is,we did not.
It was against our will.
No two people have a will working on the same lines.
Every individual has a free will.
Sometimes free will's do not travel the same line.
Sometimes they go head on,like a train wreck.
We kind of know that,so we switch tracks,jump track.
Then we feel like we took the wrong track.
It was never the wrong track.
Maybe shorter or longer.
We are all making our way back.

Support,concern and patience,strength.
If your program offers you those, it will.

Life with a Psychopath,forgiving a Psychopath is accepting that another broke are emotional,loving heart.
It helped me to go back and feel the "life of a child" who became the adult Psychopath.
Forgiving a child's life who grew up a Psychopath allows forgiveness that adult Psychopath's hold from us.
If we let a Psychopath hold our forgiveness we can not heal.
Forgiveness is a great release.
It allows you to accept "what is".
Once you have "what it is" in your hands you can change it.
Change it into your new self,best day.
Decide and create what will be,of yourself.
How old are your sons?
Are you traveling to visit them?

I am supporting,concerned for you.
May comfort and strength fill your path
today and always.

clearblue

Thanks so much for that very helpful reply. I have been stuck and wondering who could help me but I think that you are right and it needs my forgiveness to enable me to heal. One of the things which makes that difficult is that my sons 28 and 24 are methadone addicts after turning to heroin for a while. One son has broken contact with me for 5 years and the other I only see about twice a year but he e-mails me. They see their father as a victim - he has them totally manipulated. It`s funny but the first few years after I left, I would have been happy to hear that my ex was killing himself with alcohol so that my sons would be freed from his influence but now I am just sad for him so perhaps there is some forgiveness there.

I have not been to their house for 8 years because my ex made it look like I only came to upset him when I was going to see my sons so I had to stop. It`s helpful to meet someone else who has also been separated from their kids though I would not wish it on my worse enemy. One other son committed suicide and I broke contact with my daughter - both to my first husband as I believe that she is a Psychopath as well and she was threatening my life.

I think maybe I can never get over the trauma of losing my children. Thanks again. I will try the program and see how it goes.

mati

Hi Mati,
Our sons are in the same age range.
One of my daughters went through/in rehab for meth.
I really hate that drug.
She broke the cycle.
One of my sons went through/in rehab for alcoholism.
He broke the cycle. He deals with suicide impulses.
I really worry.
One of my sons is an alcoholic,drug user now.
His health,liver is damaged.
He is in denial,refusing rehab.
One of my daughters completed a program(True North program)
For drug abuse.
She broke the cycle.
One of my daughters is cutter/self mutilation.
She talks about suicide.
We have been visiting the crisis unit for her self mutilation.
I am watching her close.

I have grandchildren.
One of my grandchildren I was never allowed to see or know.

It was pretty much and decided through he Psychopath influences that I had a flaw.
I was the chosen scapegoat.(blame)
Psychopath convinced everyone in my family that I was flawed,flawed beyond their love.
I do have flaws of my own. The Psychopath invented many more.
All my energy,love and support could not erase my supply of flaws.

Sure I miss,long for and wish I could do it again,do it right.
It is hard for me to bear the thought of them experiencing destruction,pain and hurt.
In my heart of hearts I wanted them to see,know and feel my love.
They did not.
The Psychopath has convinced them my flaws are the cause.
At times they have glimpsed the truth.
It would be hard for them to take truth and sort their lives.
They choose to do this in their own way,no way or in time.
I just stand like a beacon saying,I love,feel and care about you.
They will find me when they are ready.
Because they have free will.
They were precious to me from birth,they will always be precious.
I stand ready,steadfast for that truth.

I can only imagine the grief,pain of loosing your child to suicide.
It must take your every strength to go on in the pain of your loss.
I have lost a friend to suicide.
I have a friends who have lost children/teens.
It is heartbreaking to learn you have lost a child.
Trauma is a good word for your loss.
You identified it.
That is a big step.
Trauma does not leave us.
We learn to live with trauma,sometimes in the background.
Sometimes in the foreground.

I had trinkets and pictures of my children,our lives.(proof against my flaws)
Even though we were separated I had my emotional ties through those things.
It was from the days that were better,peaceful in are lives.
From before our separations.
I had always hope to reconcile,reconnect and share those things with them.
I lost it all to a fire.

It felt so empty.
My word is nothing.
My proof was gone.
There was a death in my immediate family,no funeral or closure.
Those pictures,tokens were gone as well in that fire.

Here is what I have done,it has helped me.
I love in spirit.
I believe in that connection above all else.
I made a spirit shrine of sorts.
Small statues,things that remind me of who I love.
Those I love and miss are near in my thoughts.
My thoughts can have time in this little place.
I believe they(family,friends,pets I lost) can receive my loving thoughts.
I have a fountain,statues,reminders of....
It is a mystical little place.
No one knows my feelings, meanings,they are safe from outside doubt,negatives,influences.
No one can question,weigh or feel my love there except those I send it to.
Feelings do have a secret life also.
Mine are secret in their secret life there.
My special place is of "us" feelings.
I add a lucky stone I find one,let a spider have a web,leaves blow in a weed grows ect.
I observe them,how they come and go on their own.
Nature grows
there too.
Nature looses things,from the pretty flower to the dried leaves.
I feel connected.
I am grounded,I am here.I am here to share memories,thoughts and love.
My spirit self is never grounded.
I believe the the spirit communicates through nature.
I communicate my feelings,nature is doing the rest.
I know I have a part,without a name or label.
I am always changing,my life is changing.

You can use a small table fountain.(even battery ones).
small trinkets,candle or anything you feel or the person you miss would/did like.
It can travel with you, if you move.

You are not alone.
We are still traveling together
From the same place.
My heartfelt feelings go out to you.

Take good care

clearblue

My daughter who I have stopped contact with, is a drug addict and my first son who committed suicide was also on drugs from an early age. Four children taking drugs, who would believe their mother was not a monster. Yet I was the one in the family who everyone would dump on and I even nursed my in-laws, one with dementia and one I nursed till death at home with cancer. I am the scapegoat too and according to the ones who have control, do not deserve to be thought of as a human being with feelings, the psychopaths get all of the love and concern due to the dramas they create. My daughter turned my two grandchildren against me and for a long time I had no contact but my grand daughter has recently made contact by e-mail and says she has broken contact with her mother.

A shrine - I don`t know, I have many photographs but I cannot bear to look at them but I pray for them all frequently and trust that there will be some reconciliation one day. I feel for you to have lost precious things in the fire. But yes I am a spiritual person and believe that we are more than bodies so I can connect with the thought of finding things to remind me of those who are missing and leaving a huge hole in my soul.

Thankyou for saying I am not alone. My heart goes out to you too and I am so grateful for your words of comfort.

mati

Hi Mati,
Thank you for your thoughtfulness.
Like you,I had the pictures,not looking at them in years.
It was just comfort in knowing I had them.
You are absolutely describing how I felt too.
Dumped on,scapegoat. It has left me resentful,angry and tired.
I have forgiven many things.
I have so many more to forgive.
My kids started using drugs,alcohol young.
You are right. I am sure many people have thought about me,their Mom in bad ways.
They are clueless to living with a Psychopath and the dynamics that are behind it all,my part too, included.
I have tried to tell a few people. They do not get it.
Until they live with a Psychopath and death threats,verbal abuse,violence,drugs and alcohol,
they can not relate to it.
I wonder why,if there are so many Psychopath's people do not believe it when they hear about the families.
I guess it is easier to think of,blame dysfunctional Moms,dads then Psychopath's in families.
Society is not ready to take that step.
Of course everyone thinks a person could change it,change a Psychopath.
Having a scapegoat is the easy way out for people to live in denial.
I am continually amazed by the support,sympathy Psychopath's manipulate and maintain.
I feel so many things as empty in my life.

I struggle with the feeling that I have absorbed,rejected to much Psychopath life.
I can not get it out of my system.
I am not a normal person anymore,if I ever was.

Like the lyrics of one of my favorite songs,
"the wheels of heaven stop,
"you feel the devils' riding crop"

I have felt it.

I know we are not monsters,bad moms.
I feel better knowing we know the truth.
Thank you for sharing your feelings.
It is nice to know someone who understands,relates,shares.

You are special,
you have truth.

Take good care

Heartfelt thanks clearblue

I have met so few who can relate and understand. I would feel devastated if the photos I cannot look at were destroyed. It is the only evidence I have that my children were happy when they were small - too small for the Psychopath to get his hands on. Also the thing that gives me peace after all the mind twisting that I have had done to me, is that kids from abusive parents never give up the need to have love and acceptance from that parent - they do not reject genuine demonstrations of love but kids who have been alienated reject even love.

I am outside of society as the first thing people want to know is have I got kids or what do my kids do. This makes it get worse the longer that time passes. And every birthday and Christmas adds up. The only comfort I have is my faith. Have you read much about alienated kids? It helped me to know that the characteristics are obviously in my kids.

Yes I feel that I have been marked and no longer normal. My life is now also just one long fight to add to everything as I have a serious life threatneing illness thast medics do not treat, that is late stage Lyme Disease but I keep going just because I do not want to give up and it really helps to find someone who walks a similar path and thank you so much for the things you said - you are really special and I see you have encouraged others on here.

mati

Hi Mati, I remember you well from long ago. My sympathies are with you and your strength is beyond anything I could have handled. Is there a connection between Lymes disease happening due to a weak immune system? I can't figure it out from looking up Lymes but have always wondered if it came for a bite but a process in the system?

Di

Thanks Dianne. I believe that not everyone that gets bitten goes on to develop Lyme. Mine was missed for 10 years - I only found out last year and I guess it explains why I have had such a tough time getting over things. I was sick when I got the bite but I am sure that my marriage did not help but the worst thing was that I was incapable of getting the help I needed for diagnosis and the ability to self treat and it has only been because I left that I am still surviving and treating myself. It`s a slow process and I might not succeed but I will keep going because who knows one day sons might want me again but until they quit methadone that will not happen. I have a lot to be thankful for however as you say I have found the strength to fight through my faith and the hope that gives me that there is a higher power who can intervene. I can only hope that I will be able to help others like you do one day. Many thanks.

mati

Mati, my hope is that you start to feel better, you know we are here so please keep in touch with what is going on. For some odd reason which isn't logical I keep thinking of auto immune system and Lymes. Do you recall getting a bite? I was curious if the symptoms are in realtionship to auto immune symptoms. Or does a weaker auto immune system set up Lymes to be very strong?

Di