Hello-

i recently found this wonderful site, and I am so thankful for it. I have a concern, and I have no one to talk to about it. I was doing research on P profiling, and I started to think about my boyfriend. There are a lot of things on there that give me a red flag, but I am not so sure,and it upsets me so much, because I dont know. I was hoping to talk to people with similar stories and backgrounds, so I can figure out if he is indeed a P. Help!!
I started doing research on a site, because I have a P in my immediate family, whom i have cut off completely a few years ago. As I was reading, i slowly started to think of my boyfriend, and how some of these profiles fit him. Then I thought, well it must be the PMS talking because I get really sensitive around that time. I started thinking that he does have a narccistic attitude, and whenever I feel something, he always seems to turn it around to how it affects him, and I used to tease him and tell him, "I'ts your world, I just live in it" and slowly I think it's coming true. I recently caught him stealing something so petty of mine, and I played dumb and asked if he saw it, and he feigned innocence, and then they magically re-appeared. I confronted him the next day, and told him I saw what he did, and STILL lied about it, and then tried to get all defensive, saying things like, "think about it, WHY would I want to take that, it doesn't make sense?" so in effect he lied twice about it, and I thought to myself, what else has he lied to me about.
Granted, we have had a very trying relationship via outside circumstances, and we have stuck together. He always says, I could have to you to get out long ago, but I dont, cause I love you, and yes, I have threatened to leave before, but then stay. I know I have emotional issues myself, and I guess I wonder if this guy is the real thing, my dream man, or is he just too good to be true. We have been together 2 1/2 years, and he has been consistent with me, and sweet, funny, charming, talented as anything, smart. Pretty much what I wanted in a man, but then this started nagging at me, so again if anyone out there can help me sort this out, I would be eternally grateful. Thank you!

sunshine,

Welcome to this forum. Too bad a possible psychopath brought you here, but you have come to the right place to question your doubts about your boyfriend.

If it is too good to be true, then it is. If you doubt your own thinking, then someone gave you reason to. If your boyfriend is sweet, kind, loving, loves you, etc. that is good, especially if he's not a p. That is what should be expected in a relationship where love is the basis.

Sweet, kind, loving people do not steal from you. They do not have you doubting your own perceptions of reality. Also you say you have emotional issues? Without knowing what yours are, I will tell you mine, when I met the p, was obviously low self-esteem, deep fear of being alone-not in a relationship as it were, and "needing" a man to validate myself. If I could "get" a younger then me, good looking, talented (yes, my p could sing/play guitar/fix vehicles/build things/repair things - Jack of all trades, master at being a p) man, then I must be quite a catch. I just did not see it then. I thought I was just fine as I was. I was in denial about how desperate looking I looked to others. The p saw me coming from a mile away.

What you are describing is gaslighting. When your rational mind tells you one thing, then another. I call it mind games. When you doubt your perception of reality, something is going on.

A few examples of p lying as opposed to non-p lying, maybe this will help?

P lying:

1. Our phone rings. I just stepped out of the shower, drying off. P husband answers call in living room. I go to bedroom phone and look at caller ID. Business that recovers money for hot/bad checks shows up on ID. I get dressed, go to living room. Ask p husband "who called?". He tells me it was a wrong number. I ask "who did they ask for?", he looks me in the eyes and says "George"; I say "George, not George Smith or Mr. Smith (using Smith as a last name example only)". His voice raises and he reinterates that they wanted "George" and if I doubt him, call them back (typical p trait, they bank on the fact that their express permission to verify their lies will keep you off track and at bay. That knowing they don't care if you do, will stop you-because they ARE lying). I then proceed to scream at him, my blood was boiling. I knew he was lying as he had already written over $2,000 in NSF checks and checks on our CLOSED account. But of course, p liar, had "stopped". P stuck to his story. Fastforward about 2 weeks. P abandons me, that was over 1 year ago. I had written down the number in the bedroom that day, just in case he did lie. So I call them after the abandonment. I was told by the recovery place that my p husband owed over $400 for writing 2 checks on our closed account to payday loan companies and that "he had been making payments, called us to say he would be in June 2, 2001 to pay, has not shown up." They say he called them the day before he abandoned me, from work. Oddly enough, the call for "George" came the day before he called them back. I called this same recovery place one month ago. The checks have not been paid and will be on the p's credit 6 more years.

2. I go to mailbox, March 2001. Notice from payday loan company (actually one of checks written mentioned above), p husband wrote them a check on a closed account and they want recovery. I call husband at work. He denied, denied, denied. I finally scream at him to tell me the truth, quit lying for once in his life! He admits it, I kick him out.

Non P lie:

"Yes, honey, I'd love to go on a vacation with your parents, cousins, uncles, aunts", when he'd rather be hung by his toenails. But he loves you, really loves you and he will suffer some because he loves you. A psychopaths purpose in life is to make you suffer, not him.

How do you tell its a p?

When you find their hand in the cookie jar, but they swear its not their hand. When they lie about things that are totally stupid to lie about. When they lie about some things, anything, everything. When they have a secret life.
When they treat you like a Queen, make you feel you died and went to Heaven, then steal, cheat, lie, abandon, play mind games, promise to change or stop their behavior-don't though, etc.

Operalover said it real, real well. The bad things are not a "dream". P's promises are empty. Do his actions match his words? Does he talk the talk, not walk the walk? If you catch him at something and have your doubts, does he lay on the words of love so thick you can cut them with a knife? Or does some other crisis happen, or another lie surface so fast that you forget about the previous one? Can he hold a job? Does he have friends or is he a loner? Does he anger easily or seem to be the calm one in the relationship?

Keep this in mind: Not all criminals are psychopaths, but all psychopaths are criminals.

The BIG difference is having a conscience. Psychopaths do not. If you ask them, "why did you do this or that? Why are you hurting me? If you love me, how come you treat me like this?, etc." and all you get is "I don't know, but I do love you", or "you deserve it, thats why", or "if you had not have done this or that, it would have not caused me to do what I did", then you MAY be dealing with a person with no conscience. Also, if they continue to do the same wrong things over and over, might be a p, as p's DO NOT learn from their mistakes, they only learn to be more careful.

I was married to a psychopath for 8 years and had not a clue until the 7th year. I knew he lied, had a criminal record, blamed all past relationship failures on the woman, never and I mean never spoke the truth, and that I thought he was SO Wonderful! When, in fact, I was married to a psychopath, for certain.

You are lucky that you suspect it now, before a marriage takes place. If you are right, at best, you will lose your self respect, heart, money, possessions, sanity to a p. At worst you will lose your life.

Psychopaths are very, very mentally/emotionally/physically dangerous. You are on the right path trying to learn. Do not ignore your intuition. A lot of us here did, too much, too late. If something inside you is saying something is wrong, listen to it! If you listen to a p, they will tell you nothing is wrong, everything is just fine.

Keep reading up on it. It may take a long, long time to determine if your boyfriend is a p. I can tell you this, the younger they are, the harder it is to detect. As they reach late 20's, mid 30's their p traits are blatantly obvious because they seem to be in the deepest, darkest throes of it.

Check out the Resources post on this forum, if you have not already done so. Read whatever books strike your fancy, go to the web sites mentioned.

It is hard to believe someone we love with all our heart is a psychopath, but it is harder yet to suffer the pain they inflict if you are right.

Best wishes, looking forward to your views on this forum.

Laura

Moved here from #2, it helps the flow of conversation and each thread can hold a lot of posts, Di.

Sunshine
(member)
10/07/02 02:09 PM

Hello again!

I was just perusing the posts again, and I saw a reply! Thank you so much. In reading this, I realized that I have left out some more information, although if I were to write down our whole relationship, it would be a novella.
Why did I threaten to leave a couple of times? Well, I was upset that one day he was in a bad mood, and decided to vent on me- verbally, and he said some rude things, and I felt that it was unjustified, and it was. He did apologize to me about it, and pointed out that I have railed on him too before, and that is also true. throughout my life the instinct to run away has always been present, and I have had struggles with it, but I try to catch myself now before I run now, ask questions later. He has never threatened to leave me, nor has he been physically abusive, but sometimes i don't like the way he talks to me, saying things like, "I take care of you", "you don't take care of me", "I work hard for a living" (who doesn't?) Him, him, him...

He also is secretive about money, like it's none of my business what he makes or does with his money and bills, and I told him I disagree..If he insists on knowing my bills, it's a 2 way street, and his justification is that I am the one who has had financial problems in the past, and he hasnt, which is true.

On his defense, he tells me he loves me every day, and is affectionate with me, and that he will marry me someday, but I tell him that if we do get married, prior to that we will be having some serious discussions, because I will not marry a man who won't play on an equal playing field. There is lots more, good and bad to say, but I will leave this for you all to read for now, and I welcome any more questions/comments.

=)

Laura
(member)
10/07/02 02:21 PM

Sunshine,

I already commented on your first post. Be sure to check it out.

The "come here, go away" you seem to have? There is an excellent book called "The Emotionally Abused Woman" by Beverly Engel, M.F.C.C.

I highly recommend it. As I stated on the Resource post on this forum, it even talks about Antisocials and what type of personality a woman has to fall for them.

As for being better with money? A decent person who is better with money than another will be happy to help that person learn what they know. A p will use it against you.

Laura

Laura
(member)
10/07/02 03:16 PM

Sunshine,

Forgot something about money. My p had money secrets too. In fact, our whole marriage revolved around counting pennies and we made over $50,000 a year. I could not for the life of me figure out why we had to count pennies all the time to buy milk, etc. The p blamed it on the high cost of living, taxes, etc. I fell for that. What he neglected to mention was his alleged secret gambling addiction that he no doubt had when I hooked up with him. As with all addictions, it escalated during the marriage. It had not been blatantly obvious with all that money coming in. But when I quit my job in 1999, our income dropped in half, exactly. He panicked. How could he gamble now and not be so noticable? After all, it was all on him now, the bills and such. So he bought lottery tickets by the 200/300 at a time with, get this!, money borrowed from payday loan companies! All behind my back, without my knowledge. He did not tell of his alleged gambling addiction, lottery playing, check writing, until AFTER the home was lost, AFTER Bankruptcy was on the horizon for me only (my name on most everything).

The p explained it like this:

"It snowballed". IT SNOWBALLED!!!???XX&&lll!! I end up bankrupt, my son lost his home too, loss after loss after loss and this pathetic, louse of a p equates it to a Snowball?! I guess so. If you pack a snowball with ice and throw it at someone, it is going to do a great deal of damage, huh?

Nevermind. "Snowballed" was a good description. Lol!

Laura

Post Extras:

operalover
(member)
10/07/02 03:16 PM

Thanks for answering the question about why you almost left a few times.

You reasonably told him that discussing bills and money should be a two-way street. His reply was that you've had financial troubles, while he hasn't.

Your financial state is irrelevant. It seems he's able to evade your questions with a cloud of confusion.

I don't know whether he's a P, but he is a tricky individual.

Sunshine
(member)
10/07/02 03:32 PM

Operalover-

I hear you, and I dont know how he does that, and I don't know how to pin him down either. It's like how I used to answer questions with a question. It sometimes is difficult to nail him on something, but other times he talks..Go figure!

One other thing I thought of, re; your post on "part one" He mentioned a couple of times when i was mad and thought of packing it in, "that it would be such a waste of 2 1/2 years" if I left or he sometimes says "so this has all been a waste of time of your and my time" what does that supposed to mean??!!

Sunshine


=)

At the time the I threatened to leave, granted at the beginning it was a lot of talk but I really didn't want to leave. I guess the it is also hard because I live in a new state and I don't have any family, and my friends live in other states. When I threatened and I did leave, I went to a hotel, and after a night alone, he called and we talked it out, and he convinced me to come back home with him. I know that empty threats make no sense, but that is something I did before, and I learned not to open my mouth about it again unless I have my bags packed and in the car.

Thank you Diane.. I didnt know you could add on to one post like that, LOL! it does make it easier

Dear Laura,

Hi. I've been reflecting on your writings and one of the things has been sticking with me all day.

The paragraph that states: "I will tell you mine, when I met the p, was obviously low self esteem, deep fear of being alone-not in a relationship as it were, and "needing" a man to validate myself". Then you go on to describe what I will call a "trophy" husband (although I think I remember from one of your other posts where you said he was toothless, so that knocks him down a bit. LOL ),and state "then I must be quite a catch. I just did not see it then. I thought I was just fine as I was. I was in denial about how desperate looking I looked to others. The P saw me coming a mile away."

Laura, I really appreciate your honesty here. And your generosity. Becaue you've hit upon a "truth nerve" with me. Its not easy to admit things like this. At least I don't think so, because its rare that I ever hear anyone do it. For me, it hurts my pride. Although now, at the point I'm at, my pride's been sooooo hurt I'm taking the attitude of "deal with it, Cherie". And I cry, feel like I'm dying and then its a little better. So here we are. All dealing with it one way or another. Sure helps to have the support. And the sharing. Thanks for being willing to do both, Laura.

Cherie

"Been down so long it looks like up to me". quote by Richard Farina.

Cherie,

"Been down so long it looks like up to me". quote by Richard Farina. I love this! Thanks. So very true after a p.

I just figure that in all my marriages (3 total, one at age 17 for 6 months, he left me for a "younger" woman! I have laughed about that for years, but it sure wasn't funny when it happened. I was 18 by then, she was 17. He married her and they had a baby girl. He met her at work at a gas station where he was a mechanic. She would stop in to get gas on her way to High School, he's married 5 times since me!; Marriage 2, lasted 11 years to my childrens father; Marriage 3, lasted 8 years to a psychopath; funny though, I divorced them all, well not hahaha funny, just odd, I guess)

Come to think of it, I could honestly say no man has ever divorced me. That sounds a lot better than "I've been married 3 times." I'm off the point, just another Laura story to stick in the memory archives.

To continue, as for being honest, I am willing to take my share of the blame in all those failed marriages. I even break it down to percentages. I give husband #1 a 50/50 break on that one; Husband #2 a 40/60 split, my favor; Husband #3 a 30/70, and feel I am being generous! Its my "who's most at fault for this divorce" gauge. I would have husband #1 to dinner any day of the week, and did stay friends with him until his dad died in 1991 and he moved out of State. 16 years after our marriage he moved. #2 is in my life still, as he is the one who "took" my son from me. We always had a love/hate relationship, the whole 11 years. Still do. Right now it is "hate". But, the children are his, so oh well. This one will always be in my life, if only through our children.

I am sorry that you feel so bad sometimes and cry and feel that you are dying inside. I understand completely. It is like being dumped (in my case) by the scum of the earth. If the scum of the earth dumps, then what does that make me?

Well, I will tell you what it makes me....it makes me too good for scum. It makes me too honest for scum. It makes me BETTER than scum, not worse. This p abandon guy knew he couldn't cut the mustard with me. I was everything he could never be from day one. I knew what real love was, because I'd been searching for it all my life and was never going to give up until I found it. I had work ethic, friends, family that loved me. I had talent (I write things, some have been published). I put 100% into my home, my job, my marriage, my children, unfortunately the children got put last a lot, due to the home and job(s). But they all love me and that is good. My children's father has a 29 year old daughter from his first marriage. She told me on the phone last Christmastime, that I "had a big heart, my intentions were good, and I meant well. That she HATES to clean because I cleaned too much!" I still care about her even though she was not mine.

Maybe thats it. I did the best with what I had to work with, from my upbringing. My intentions were always good with family, sometimes though it looked not so. I do have a big heart, something the p only pretended to have through words. Mine was real. My actions matched my words, even when my actions were bad. I was the real deal, not a fake. The p must have been pretty jealous of me for having qualities that he did not have, nor know how to have. Sometimes jealousy prompts us to do what we need to do to have what another has. With a p, the only thing they can do at all is observe goodness and mimic it.

I cry for doing my best, working hard, trying to be a good wife, apologizing to the p for my mistakes/failures as a wife, asking forgiveness of him, him granting it (lied!). I promised myself that for this 3rd marriage I would be a good wife, try hard to do right, be loving, kind, all the things a wife should be. He sabotoged me at every turn by his love being a lie, a con.

Yes, he has no teeth. I missed 4 1/2 days work at 2 jobs total over that teeth thing back in '94. I set the alarm every 4 hours to give him pain medicine, made liquid stuff for him to drink through a straw. I helped him up the stairs to the front door after the surgery and my dad sat with him while I went and got him a malt (Doctors orders to minimize swelling). I loved him even at age 26 looking like an old man, no teeth. Sometimes I missed kissing a man with teeth, but I never told him. I wanted him to love me if I lost my teeth. But when he abandoned me in '98, went to Georgia to be an over the road truck driver (or so he said), I asked him how I could ever count on him when I was in a nursing home or hooked up to tubes or something, since I was 10 years older, if I couldn't count on him to not abandon me when I was healthy, young and fine? He had no answer to that. Went right over my head then. No answer was the "answer" I was looking for. He would not give a hoot less, because he was going to be gone. He also took care of me when I had surgery's, cancer tests (many). He seemed to be really scared and maybe was. I believe his psychopathy worsened a few years into the marriage, as he approached 30.

As for Pride? My dad say's "pride gets in the way of everything. Pride is what causes people to miss out on so much."

I am sorry that you feel how you do about the pride thing. You have every right to be proud, to get your pride back. You survived a p! You are a better person than the p, always were, always will be. Yes, its hard. All of it.

Instead of asking what we lost, we must ask what we gained.
I know, for myself, I am not crying because someone that claims to love me is emotionally killing me. I am not keeping the blinds shut so the bill collectors think I'm gone. I am not answering the phone 5 times a day, just to hear "I love you". I'm not searching vehicles, drawers, billfolds, file cabinets, apartments, etc. to prove that the p is lying. I'm not doing his laundry, tripping on his shoes when I make the bed, listening to one more "I don't know, Babe, I forgot. I told you I have memory problems." Like remembering to not abandon your wife? I know he's not going to write bad checks on MY account.

Sometimes I am cleaning, scrubbing a floor on my hands and knees, and I hear "YOU CLEAN TOO MUCH." I'd bawl. Now I laugh. He KNOWS I'm cleaning on a Saturday, I KNOW he's lying to her 7 days a week. So I guess we both know the truth!

Regarding his teeth...one more time...the sad part is when he lies to someone someday, they can't knock his teeth down his throat!

My Journalism teacher in High School begged me to go to college and become a Journalist in some form. She said I had a "special talent" for writing. I told her no, I was getting married. Husband #1. Well, I am getting my writing ability back. I can write here with it and/or I can write the books, poems that I have started over my many marriages. The p robbed me of a lot, he could never take my talent to write, because that cannot be copied, you know, faked. All my life I wanted to be a book writer, now it is time. I will have the p to thank for that. If I were still with him, I would be in such an emotional state, that my writing would never happen. God gave us talent to share, not to keep to ourselves. I have good things to share and with the p, all I could think of were bad things.

Cherie, you will get through this. I will get through this. We all will. If we did not know what it was like to be sick, how could we ever appreciate being well? This forum helps me so much. More than anything else I've tried since the p, or with the p. I honestly believe it is God that brought me to it. I did not have a computer, my oldest son gave me his old one just this year. I never could have purchased one at all.

I like the song, "Angels among us", I think it is called. It is so true. God does send someone when we are at our lowest point. It may be a smile, a kind word, a phone call. He also sends us computers! A friend at work said "God has something special in mind for you Laura, I just know it." He said to pray on it and it will be answered. I hope it is my writing.

Remember, the p is scum. Not you. Please try to find some pride in yourself, find the goodness and do good things. You do good and good will come to you. In God's time, not yours. You were with evil and evil is gone.

There is a man at work that has little money. His shoes are falling apart. His son found them in a dumpster when they were brand new. He has had toes amputated due to health problems. He never, ever, ever complains. He said they have been a real good pair of shoes. I want to buy him a new pair so bad, and I will eventually. He will be so happy, I can't wait. I'm hoping to come up with the money in the next few weeks. I spent thousands on a evil p who did not deserve one dime, it makes my heart pound with anticipation to do something for a good person that really would appreciate it and not expect it.

Yes, I'm getting well. Thank you, and thanks to all of you who post/reply. You are all part of the reason I have come this far in such a short time. Bless you all.

Laura

I read your responses, and thank you very much. It is such a scary thing, and I commend you for being a survivor.
My relationship with "B" was/is an intense one, we hit it off right away, and were pretty serious thereafter. He moved in with me,(he relocated) and he helped to support me while he was looking for a job, and was the perfect "househusband" cooked, cleaned, romantic, etc.
He's still a sweet guy, and we very much enjoy eachothers company, but like I was saying theres just something that bugs me. I was bad one day, and I was snooping in his stuff and found a bunch of porn, and I don't like it, and I can't confront him on it, cause he'll know i snooped.
When i get mad at him, he always throws stuff in my face of all the rotten and crappy things that I have done to him in the past, and even though it's unfair, he's right.
Jobwise, he's been with the same company for 6 years (we ended up moving from my state to his) and he has perfect credit. He like to bring up sometimes that he should be afraid of me leaving him because I have been married 2 times before, and hes never been married.
I don't know what to do, i wish there was a test I could take to determine if he's a P or if we just have issues, but hearing peoples stories helps me a lot, and advice to me is priceless.

I added the above to the thread list, as I thought that I had to write back to the person who posted the prior thread. Anywho, I get it now, and it is just a continuation of this saga.