I have started this post several times but become overwhelmed and unable to continue. Now, I am trying again....

My Dad, as far as I know, is not a murderer, robber, rapist, drug addict, or anything else that would potentially flag him as a psychopath. In fact, he appears, on the surface, to have always been a loving father and husband. He and my mother were married 48 years. However, after my Mom's death in 1999, I moved home to stay with my Dad. I won't go into all the details but over the past 11 years, with the help of God and my husband, I began to realize that things weren't quite right with my "all-American family" nor with the father whom I thought always had my best interest in mind.

One thing my Dad does is constantly create enemies among those around him while, simultaneously, appearing to be the most friendly, happy-go-lucky, smiling, people-loving person you would ever want to meet. He likes to foster discontent, dissension, etc. and, apparently would watch the havoc it created without anyone ever realizing he was the instigator. The people with whom he plants these negative impressions never consider that he is doing so - rather they just begin to dislike the target of my father's disdain. Growing up, I had always felt disapproval from my mother, brother, and sister - nothing overt, just a strong feeling. There were no hugs, love you's, or "I'm proud of you" from anywhere. I spent my childhood mostly in my room, dreaming that I was someone else - someone people were drawn to and immediately liked. I lived that dream world into my adulthood. Additionally, if there was anything special to me - such as a love for animals, it was insinuated that this was a bad thing. That I didn't like people. I was spoken of as if I were a spoiled selfish child and adult. All my aspirations, likes, hurts, etc., were de-valued and undermined. When the 3 of us kids grew up and had homes of our own, my parents visits would be miserable. People would tell me it took me 3 weeks to get over their visits. My mom was the one, however, that would overtly spew disapproval - not my Dad. He just sat back and listened. She would criticize the other 2 kids and I would join in - feeling it was the only time I was the "favored child". Until I realized that she would do the same thing at my brother's and sister's homes. It was like a black cloud wherever they went. I had no idea that it was my Dad fostering these things. My Dad was always putting me down but he would do it either with what appeared to be a fatherly concern or in a teasing matter - like he was just joking. Except that it was a constant in my life. I always felt like I had to defend myself but I wasn't sure against what. I grew up unhappy, sullen, with no confidence or self-like. As a matter of fact, I was becoming what I saw my mother to be.

I didn't realize that my Dad was a psychopath overnight. I didn't begin even having a clue until I had spent 2 years locked in a sleepless battle every night over questions of "what is the truth?", "what do I believe?", "what is happening?", and wishing I were dead every morning, not wanting to face another horrible day. My husband and I would fight constantly. I thought he just hated my Dad but he was trying to get me to see what he could see - that my Dad was controlling my thoughts, emotions, etc. I almost lost my marriage before I was able to see the real villain in all of this. One night, I sat up in bed, looked up at the ceiling, and said out loud "God, I can't figure this out. I don't know what is going on or who to believe." "I can't fight this anymore." "Please help me". The following morning, my husband showed me some internet info on narcissistic parents but I thought that didn't represent my Dad all that much. That got me interested in delving further and I looked up manipulative parents. What I got back was an article on covert aggression personality disturbance. I couldn't believe it. It described my Dad to a "T". The lying, using shame and guilt tactics, feigning innocence, minimizing, inappropriate anger, etc. Finally, it gave me a category. Something to hold on to. After that, information and situations just continued to snowball. I realized he had been putting negative impressions of me in the mind of my boss's parents thus causing my boss to have concerns about my performance. When I realized that my Dad was "in my job", I had to stop the insanity. This was my livelihood - and a very good one. I realized then that my Dad would go to great lengths to destroy anything I felt good about. That brings me to the point I am at today. Through continued research, I absolutely believe that my Dad is and always has been a psychopath. My mother had to have lived a "living hell" and none of us were aware, including her. I am the only one, besides my husband, who knows this. Now that my Dad knows I am aware, he has pulled my sister and brother closely to him and they won't have anything to do with me. In the years after my Mom died, all information went through my Dad. My sister, brother and I have never been very close and I realized that the disapproval I felt FROM them had also been planted in my mind TOWARD them. It's so complex and so hard to explain. It is a truly a hidden evil that I never suspected was going on. I thought it was normal.

My husband and I are coming out of this hell and are stronger than ever. We are planning a move to [edited to remove location] to start a new life, without knowing anyone who has ever come into contact with my Dad. The healing process has been pretty rapid; however, my husband and I speak daily of this. I continually think about my childhood and try to sort things all out and wish that I could talk to my Mom.

Sorry this is so long and yet it speaks to only a tiny bit of what I have discovered about my Dad and my own life. Thank you for "listening".

Hi sinkler61, welcome to the forum, I am glad you had that lightbulb moment. There is no limit on how much any posts, so post away, the more the members read the better we can support you.

A man in a very similar situation just joined our community a couple of days ago and I will move his post here and let him know. I am very sorry about the situation but waking up in time saved your marriage and moving is an excellent plan, wasn't there some song about, being where no one knows my name;) Many times the pressure can make people take the bait and you have done nothing wrong so no reason to explain yourself. I find that people exhibit very poor boundaries in the personal things they will ask or say about someone so best to be away. I find it odd how hungry people can be for unfounded gossip. I prefer to make my own decisions rather than listen to someone with ill will telling me about someone else and their "faults".

Since things are so transparent these days if you don't want them to easily locate you stay away from facebook etc. If you plan to be out of any contact we can chat about how to make sure they can't easily find you. They may someway but make it so it isn't so easy

I would guess if they find you it would only be to bring misery and pain back to your life. Control is a huge factor with a psychopath so they will see you as out of their range yet wanting to snoop up on you. I am not so sure I would hop on a plane if they call to tell you about a funeral.

Thoughts have power so once you resolve it and hopefully we can help in any way, I would wipe it all out of my mind and have a happy and joy filled life. It sounds like you have a great husband.

I am guessing you told your dad he was a psychopath? It doesn't surprise me about his gossiping to have a negative impact on your work, after all a psychopath's middle name is Evil. Do you think he wanted you fired so you would have to come to him for things?

Di

Hi,
This is fairly long winded
My mum died 10 years ago, my dad remarried a woman with 2 daughters about 8 years ago from Thailand, she is very dependant on him and he likes it that way, they had a baby, she is 3 he is 67.
He has always been manipulative, emotionally, he tends to tell lies to emotionally blackmail, often not nessicary, an open honest approach would work just as well or better, yet he cant see this. Your mums upset.... yet she never said a thing, it was him not wishing to say he was upset
He degraded my mum, by flirting in front of her, obviously he didnt see it that way, i asked him after she died (53) he was 56 i think, if he was unfaithful, he said once when they first married. She loved him and stuck with him, almost made him function to a better level, she gave him strength.
I get the feeling he had or has a above average libido, he maked inapropriate comments alot. Now he seems to and has used her loss as an excuse for poor behaviour, "your mum did all that stuff, its not my fault". As a grand parant or father
Myself and my siblings were made to feel special when we were younger, given a false ego, we were wonderful, he was so proud. It was directed at other adults but rubbed off on us.
Often I wonder if I myself have developed poor behaviour because of my up bringing, if i am normal, if infact i have aquired some mimiced habits from my up bringing, i have had 2 long term failed relationships.

He wishes or wished to keep everyone around him, buy a businesses that we all would be together, the centre of attention, yet it always became about money greed and him getting us to work for less than fair wages or conditions, again manipulating, everyone has pulled away over time, been used hurt, become intolerant of his selfishness.

My brothers wife said she will leave him if he helps dad. I thought that was harsh, i should be his decision, she should trust his judgement.

Anyway
He moved away from everyone in anger about 5 years ago, he has a terrible temper, almost a rage at times of difficulty. In his eyes we didnt care, in ours it was that it was a one way street, we gave he took, as we grew, married, divorce, lived without much contact, by the time mum had been gone for 3 or 4 years he became more like an uncle than a dad, mum was the only connection, without her he just took and took until nobody wanted to hear him whine and grumble, he moved on to convincing everyone else, colleagues, friends, new neighbours of how his children had abandoned him, because he had married a Thai woman, he convinced her we didnt like her, he borrowed money from friends and uncles etc, emotionally used others took up gambling on pokies, he is always poor,no matter how rich he may be, if he had a million dollars it would be his last million, "ive lost so much" he would say (always a sad story to be told) and pretend he had had 2 million before.

Dad has now been accused of touching my step sister girls inappropriately, he denys this, that tickling and touching, cuddling was his way of shoing he loved them, part of a loving relationship. He claims the girls now 14 and 17 are lying because he is to strict, that their mum who has lung cancer has put stress on him and his anger or frustration with their lack of help around the house with their sister (now 3) is part of the cause for them to make it up so they can leave home and not help. He blames his strictness and control over issues to do with boy problems in the past, a lack of trust, and the loss of his other childrens affection, that he has been trying to keep them close.

Emotionally controled would be an outside observation.

I believe the girls because i had a discussion with my sister, she tells me he did the same to her, but she never felt threatened or stopped loving him, until a bigger issue over money at 31 years of age. Mainly pinching her breasts, brushing past he pelvic bone or pushing her in that region, pinching her behind. Basically an invasion of personal space, odd, it has to be sexual, but nothing ever transpired, she never felt odd about it until I mentioned after visiting him a year or 2 ago and i told her that i felt he was manipulating the girls, that it was strange and the girls were not given much freedom.

Social services believe its intent for something more sinister after the oldest confided in a friend, their parents rang them and all hell broke loose.
The girls have been removed, he wants to bring his wife and baby to live with me because he cant cope. He is graping at straws. She also asked me also but i feel she was manipulated by him, she believes him over her children, and has cut them off to a degree, convinced herself that the girls are just lazy and want to be free or she pertends to agree becuase of the marrige, i can see through it, if she sees through it she will have lost the love of her daughters.

If she remains stressed the cancer will finish her quickly, its been removed in december but could resurface, she now needs chemo.

Im a solo dad now, i have been a long time, my daughters 13, 21 and 24 the 13year old still at home with me, the older 2 say Dad never ever touched them, i dont want to expose the youngest to risk, im not sure if he really is a risk.

Im not sure how to help this situation, how to help him, how to help his wife and my half sister or the two older girls. If i should, how could i just turn my back.

I dont wish to have him live with me but he is my father, he my face prosecution yet so im not sure if he will be made to stay there until he has or if he would be free to come here.
I dont think he is a paedophile, but his touching is not normal, he Rationalises it minimizes it and has used guilt and intimidation with the girls ("why are you doing this", "you know your lying") to a lesser degree, i dont think he is evil, more immature, but i find him draining negative, unevolved spiritually and emotionally, some would say a young soul.

Yet he can be charming, funny and a hard worker, people really like him, atleast for a while, some for ever.
Hes stopped eating in the past few days, I think he wants attention, he says its best if he just dies.
I would prefer to provide a home for my step sisters, but they would like to stay in their current school etc with friends families. That is 1700km away from me. In my opinion the best outcome would be dad to go on his own and everyone could be together but he wont let his wife go, he would be alone.

I feel i am being selfish and avoiding addressing/talking to him about it. Because i dont want him here.
I should have rung him, i promised i would, but i cant face it today because i dont fully understand his illness, who he is, why he is the way he is. I believe he may be a psychopath (but that seems extreme) with a bit of a sexual hang up too. Looked into it a little today on the internet but im not sure who to go to for advice here in [edited to remove location]. Then i found this site.
Any suggestions?

Hi Monty, welcome to the forum. I will be gone for awhile but just a couple of thoughts, any kind of touching is wrong, don't take that risk.

I think your brothers wife is right in refusing to deal with your father.

I can't think of a single reason why you would let him move in with you. Think of your daughter, do you want her to grow up in the chaos he will for sure bring, take a chance he may touch her?

You have no reason to feel guilty, he s a gwon man and made his own decisions to marry have another child etc. Your primary focus should be your and your daughters sanity and steering clear of all the chaos.

They will come up with every reason, ploy etc. you have to be strong or you are bringing your child into a situation that is crazy making, do you want to do that to her?

Di

I'm really sorry, I'm not in such a good place as to be able to write you a proper reply at the moment.

One phrase really jumped out at me though, as the daughter of a pyschopath, who used the 'it's my way of showing how much I love you' line, and in fact brainwashed me for years with it:

'Mainly pinching her breasts, brushing past he pelvic bone or pushing her in that region, pinching her behind. Basically an invasion of personal space'

This isn't just an invasion of personal space, it's sexual assault.

I'm sorry if it sounds really harsh. As someone who has been on the receiving end of this type of behaviour from my father (and much, much worse) humiliation and degradation is the intent of it. Power and control are also the intent (as in 'I have the power to touch you wherever I want to and in whatever way I want to and you have no control over it, or your body').

Please don't risk exposing your children to this. I have a younger sister who lives with our dad. I know what he is doing to her because he has done the same to me and other female family members. The pain is beyond excruciating.

Something else that jumped out at me too...for a while I thought my dad was mentally ill. How could he possibly have done what he did to me otherwise?

Now I know he knows exactly where the line between right and wrong is. He just chooses to cross over it continually. He chooses to disregard the law and social norms and other people's wellbeing because he wants power and control. And he deliberately exploits other people's concern for living within the bounds of the law and social norms.

That's who my dad is.

Hi Monty as far as your dad and you evaluating if he moves in with you, ask youself one question, do you want pure evil living with you and your daughter?

Think of your daughters needs, only you can protect her. Sure he will be really, realy nice for a short while and then boom out comes the devil dressed in mans clothing.

Even entertaining the thought makes me think he is putting a lot of pressure on you and even getting his wife to ask also. Probably next they will say it will only be for a "short time", trust me it will be forever.

He is known to molest young girls, why would he be any different with your daughter? How could you possibly watch over your daughter 24/7 no matter how hard you try, he will find an opportunity.

I know it will be difficult since they will probably keep hounding you but you need to step up to the plate to protect your daughter. The trauma it would bring would more than likely bring her a lifetime of issues. I would suggest, do not even let them come for a holiday or any other reason, they will then really pin you down or they just won't leave. Once they walk through your door all bets are off as far as the safety of your daughter and the mental chaos it will bring.

I think about the only route is to say, no way when you talk to them and stick to it, avoid their calls for awhile or forever, what exactly do you have to gain by speaking with him?

There is a saying here, if you don't like the family you get, find a family you want.

Di

'The trauma it would bring would more than likely bring her a lifetime of issues.'

I can second that. I'm middle aged now. Still struggling to deal with it.

These are some of the ways in which it has affected me:
PTSD
IBS (which can be very severe at times)
Eczema
Self harm
Depression
Attempted suicides
Eating disorders
Very low self esteem
I live my life in constant fear
I have practically no friends
I can't work full time because of my PTSD, and am consequently really broke all the time
No interest in having a family of my own (why bring children into the world when there are such evil people?)

I have had years of counselling, some of which has re-traumatised me.

I wish to God someone had kept this man away from me, but he tricked everyone (including me) into believing he was a good and kind, if slightly goofy, man. That was just a mask.

What they do is all about severing and rendering immobile. They sever your thought/feeling axis, so leaving you really confused and at odds with yourself, and ultimately unable to act.

He's already doing this to you: your gut is telling you that it would be a bad idea to let him into you life, but he is wearing down the thinking part of you.

This is how they get control.

Monty,

I think moving your father into your home would put your daughter at risk and is a bad idea. Man, get him an apt!

When a psychopath's spouse becomes seriously ill, or is on a trip or absent for several days--- he can feel betrayed by her and like he is being threatened with death of his "Self." A psychopath WILL exploit the Trust and Love of those closest to them, including his own children and teenagers (who are still growing and developing), in order to obtain feelings of having control over his life and world. He will not admit he's molested his daughter(s)...he doesn't feel shame or remorse. He will minimize his offense and say the girl exaggerated, it wasn't "really" molestation, he ONLY pinched her, or she behaved seductively, flirted, or "egged him on." His brain is even capable of blocking his mind from remembering it at all...though his actions may taint his daughters lives forever. My husband engaged in classic psychopathic Projection: he disowned his rotten behaviors by transferring "ownership" of them over to ME. When he did that, then he looked at me he "saw" HIS abusive behavior attached-to me, as if it were mine somehow. His brain rewrites or blocks him from knowing what he's done, and he had no awareness or understanding that his mind even performed these switcheroos.


Your father's wife has cancer, which has unleashed insecurities in him.
Looks like to me he's a guy who fixes insecure feelings through sexual harassment and manipulation of minor females;
He's already sexually molested your step-sisters.
YES, it's possible your father could molest or try to molest your daughter(s).
This is not an "Oops, Dad made an embarrassing mistake" thing, it's a major-psychological Disorder thing.
If his wife gets sicker instead of recovering, their little daughter won't be safe to leave alone with him either.

You can take him in and police his conduct;can you really turn off his inappropriate behaviors.(pinching buttocks etc)
What does having him live with you teach your daughters?--
That it's okay for a molester to live in your home so long as he's a relative?
That Loyalty is duty-bound to put up with disrespectful treatment of your female children?

I'm not sure. But I know this...
Abuse has a nasty habit of recycling from generation to generation.



____________________________

Here's my story. I should've seen it coming. I didn't.

I was married for over 20 years to a psychopathic man. A PhD scientific researcher.
He could mimick 'normal' well enough to pass for a sort of eccentric-normal in public socializing, but he was a fake. He had no ethics.

After we had two kids I quickly found out that his actions didn't match his words very often. He lied a lot but it was hard to tell because he looked and sounded sincere. When he treated others badly he just re-wrote it, erasing his behavior, or providing some stupid justification for it.
He BELIEVED his own lies. Really believed them.

When our daughter was 14 and our son 11, my father got bone cancer. He lived two states away. I was 30 when my mom died and 6 months later he married a young gold-digger wife. (she never a mom to me so I don't refer to her as step-mother.) He had surgery to relieve pain and extend his life, but when he returned home from the hospital, she turned him into her captive abuse victim. Battery and torture went on two weeks undiscovered. I discovered it and extracted my father. He was too sick to move to where I live so I made several trips to his city to do what was needed to coordinate his medical care, get an attorney, deal with the assault report, and manage his financial matters. First trip I was gone from home 8 days, then made a couple more 3 to 4 day trips with a week at home in between. At the start of my father's mess, my husband found out that his longtime research job was being terminated. But he was given one 'grace year' of regular monthly salary and benefits, while he hunted for other work.

When I returned home my daughter complained that Daddy walked in on her every time she changed her clothes or took a shower and she'd asked him to stop it but he wouldn't, and she asked me to get through to him that she wasn't little anymore and she deserved privacy. My son had a couple nasty-looking bruises that he couldn't recall how he got. He was way-quieter than normal--stayed in his room when his father was at home. I attempted to discuss those things with my husband; he lashed out in a way he never had before. He wildly accused me of abusing our kids, treating them to pitiless harangues, inventing crimes to accuse them of so I could dish out punishment or treat them to cold silences...and so on. I had done nothing of the sort, I'd been gone 8 days and back home just 4 hours; his ranting lies made NO SENSE. My second trip, coming back home things were worse...very strained. My third trip, I was able to return home a day earlier than I'd expected to. Phoned home to tell them, but no one answered, I left a message. I arrived home late afternoon. The house seemed empty, --no wait --someone was crying in the bedroom -- I walked there to investigate. My daughter's bedroom door was ajar. My husband was on the bed with my daughter, both were dressed, but his arms were clenched tight around her, pinning her arms to her sides, with his weight mashing her to the mattress. He was grinding his pelvis against her buttocks, rhythmically chanting with each thrust " daddy LOVES you, daddy LOVES you, Mama HATES you, daddy LOVES you." He was smiling. She was sobbing and pleading with him to leave her alone. My son was in his room adjacent to hers, also sobbing.

I yelled at him to get up and get out. He looked wild and yelled back in a creepy FLAT voice, "You don't un-der-stand... you can't care...you are E-VIL...e-vil and TWIST-ED...you deserve noth-ing but HATRED." I could see in the expression on his fact that he BELIEVED what he was saying; this was his re-write, projecting his actions onto me to paint himself innocent. He glared like he wanted to kill me. I shouted him off the bed and out of the room. OUT OUT get OUT right NOW. He left the house, got in his car and drove off. I comforted and quieted the kids. I'd spent the morning installing my father at Hospice because his pain had become 'unmanagable'....then I'd driven 8 hours home and encountered this.

My kids and I went to a Women's Shelter. I filled out an incident report there. We spent the night on couches because their small dorm room was at full occupancy. In the morning we returned home and I made attorney appointments for me and counseling appointments for everyone. My husband returned. He had was unaware we hadn't slept at home, and indignant that I would dare to suggest that he was dangerous to be around. His entire memory of the previous day's incident consisted of 'something happened where everyone got confused and was crying and yelling...it was all very hazy and nebulous.' He was the only one confused, but he didn't know it.

It was during my first trip away, (the week-long one) when my husband started molesting our daughter and false-blaming our son, giving himself excuses to slap him around.

Hi,
The way I see it is we are all on a road to discovery, we are all growing emotionally, we all make mistakes.
Phsycopath just seems so harsh to me. We all use emotion to manipulate situations, were is the line between normality and pathic? As we grow some of us see the world more clearly, we use honesty or are able to see things clearer, we can all reflect and think of situations weve been in and how we behaived badly, with emotion rather than clarity.
Yes my Dad has some major issues, he has never had the level of maturity to face those issues, he like many people blames everyone and everthing but himself. Until a human is capable of being self critical they can not grow, change.
How many social workers does it take to change a light bulb?
one!! but the light bulb has to want to change!
I dont know why that seems to funny today but its light and refreshing compared to unpleasntry i face.

Back to where I was going, enlightenment or knowledge gives you a greater sence of awareness, there is no way my Dad living near or with me would he be allowed to do anything to harm my daughter. Being aware of his past and me being able (not that i want to) to confront it means his grandaughter is aware of the accusations. Yes im not qualified to help, im not skilled or knowledgeable in this field, yes i could get burned. There could be extreme circumstances, say he told her if she told he would kill me and her etc. This isnt likely, its like saying you wont fly or go in a car because it might crash, yes things can happen, but taking precautions can avert disaster.

If i walk away from this situation does that make it a problem for others in society, others that are unaware of his issues, let him go out there unaided, interfering with some strangers children because he is taken in by some unsuspecting family, oh poor old guy, well give him a room.
What he needs is counciling, managment, support, and a level of understanding, not condoning but a level of understanding in a clinical sence. Maybe im naive, maybe a fool, i like to think there was good in all people, the ability to change, the desire to be better or do better. If we just throw them to the street then what does that do to our societies? I find it strange that the general opinion is they cant be helped, Why then do we not lock up 10% more of society?
Im all for helping my dad if i can, i just find him so dam annoying to be around, he drives me nuts. Let along the effort involved in actually doing it.
As far as the comment on my dad and my sister, "invasion of personal space"
yes ill admit trying to dress it up and make it sound better than it was, because i dont understand it and dont wish to believe he is like that, and that because he didnt pin her down and say daddy loves you i felt maybe i can get away with saying he didnt sexually assult her, but then in being like him not facing the truth.

So where do i go, who helps these people?
Who helps me do what is right?
Leaving him on the street turning my back to corupt another humans life is not the way to go, if i want to or not its wrong.
I have a step mum whom i can help, a half sister, what happens to them if i do nothing?
I dont know about your society but mine sucks, were is the help averting a disaster, why is there ambulances instead of doctors?

ps as far as moving from generation to generation i am his son, i have 3 daughters, i have never nor would ever touch them inapropriately. But i would say may have ment victim to victim, this would be more lodgical. I have been confused by many aspects of my dads behaiviour from 5 years old till today and strived to be nothing like him all my life. My biggest fear is becoming him. I found that comment painful thats all.
Thanks for all your input

Hi, I hope things work out. It isn't a decision I would make but we all have free will to do as we choose. I think you are kidding yourself to say you can protect your daughter, how do you plan to protect her from his words and questionable actions and the incredible chaos he will bring with him? It is like trading your daughters mental health for a pact with the devil.

I sincerely feel very sorry for your daughter. A child doesn't have to be physically harmed but emotional harm is the same without scars or bruises.

psychopath's are not able to be cured, even if he agreed to treatment, he won't stick with it and he will come out with even more tricks. There is an article here if you want that I can provide about the effects of therapy on psychopath's.

They can't get locked up unless they break the law and get caught, most of them walking around prefer to lock up others in their web of lies, deceit and broken hearts.

Di