Hi Dianne,

It has been a long gradual process. Much puzzling.
After 2 yrs marriage I got a great shock.

After 5 yrs realised the condition was definite enough that it would have a name - be diagnosable.

After about 7 or 8 yrs decided I wouldnt live like this any more also that I couldnt leave our children in her care so ejected her. We have lived apart since then although associating closely.

Over the next ten years or so exploring and experiencing the condition I gained a lot of insight into and understanding what I was dealing with, all the while seeking solutions and trying to get help both for us and for myself. My craziness. Met with frustration, despair and self doubt etc - just like everyone else I guess. Came to know the malevolence and intractability inbuilt etc. I could go on for ever - I cant go on now. I am struggling to write this, can hardly function.

I am suffering , heartsick and fearful. Grieving. I am 2 weeks into withdrawal from her. I need some support etc.
more later if that pleases you.
Thank you

I'm sorry for what has brought you here. Glad you have found this place though.

The feelings can be quite overwhelming, can't they?

I consider myself to be a pretty stable, emotionally steady, and even reasonable person. Yet nothing brings out the worst in me than interacting with my psychopathic brother. Sometimes I don't even recognize the person that I am when I've interacted with him.

I had a terrible year last year because I interacted with him more in the last year than I had in the last ten years. It was head-spinning, dizzy-ing, and frustrating in way that mere words can't express so I can't imagine the heartache with being married to someone who is psychopathic.

I feel for you.

Hello Dianne,
Thank you for receiving me, I have been back here a few times but finding it very difficult to write anything at all. My head is whirring round when I try to think and I am in great emotional turmoil. In my 62 yrs I have never known anything like this before. Its been going on for near three weeks now but I am slowly settling down, finding some more peace and calm. I have taken leave from my job and am just nursing myself and looking after my children. I am sure it is with a psychopath or very similar that that I have been dealing all these yrs. I will write some more sense when I can but in the meantime I am very grateful to be able to say this much and be received. I guess my experience is similar to many of your members and their experience. It is just so valuable to be able to speak out of this place and be heard.

Thank you again -

ps. I am sure there is recovery and I will find it - getting back to goodness and the beauty that is life.

Hello Starry,
Thank you for your response.
In reply, simply yes they can and I am pretty much overwhelmd at present. But I also want to say there is a quiet inner assurance that I will not remain so always, That I will not be actually overwhelmd!
I am glad of my feelings. They mean I am human. They are like the blood in my veins, the colour and flavour of life - even painful difficult ones, anguish, and despair - I have learnt. They will not harm me. They tell me things about my life and about myself. They are my friends. They mean I am alive!
Yes it is pretty difficult at the moment and so :
It is very nice and much comfort when someone hears and understands - you reach out and touch me with your words
Many thanks again.

Hello Twin,
Thank you for your message and your care.
I would like to be able to say some more to you in response but at present am unable to think properly and do you justice.
I am feeling loved some and warmed. Thank you

Dear Newboy,

Welcome to the most sincere and compassionate forum on the web. I have been a visitor and participant for over 3 years on dozens of message boards and have read thousands of posts from people grieving the nightmare of a psychopathic relationship. Each outpouring of a person's feelings is a sacred and valued act of trust and an aching to be heard and understood. Be assured that what you need to say will come out when your heart is ready to release it.

I know what it feels like to hurt so bad that talking or writing is an impossible chore. You are still trying to wrap your mind around all this. It takes time. We are here for you. Smiles and hugs are being sent your way.

Mouton

Hi all,
Thanks for your kindness and interest
I find comfort in your words
Many thanks again = Russell.

Newboy,
I think you said it perfectly, 'getting back to the goodness and beauty that is life.' When you have been hurt, when you have interacted with someone who is incapable of feeling anything, and yet has masqueraded feelings of love for years, it is a surreal experience. It makes you believe that nothing in the world is real or true or good.

You sound like a very sensitive person, and I am sorry for your hurt. We are all here, trying to recover, trying to move on. I know that is hard. Fortunately, the ones who have recovered or are recovering are here, too, so they can help us see the light. Like you, I am trying to find the happy, joyous, loving, caring person I once was before the wrath of pain, hurt, hatred unleashed upon me by the psychopath.

I wish you a safe journey in continuing the fight to survive and move on.

Hello there Mouton 22,
My apologies to you. My last post that begins "Hi all..." should have been addressed to you ... and all"
It was your response to me that really prompted that post.
I was at the same time very aware of the kindness and goodwill coming to me from all who have responded to me. I didnt acknowledge you personally
You took the time to write to me so:
Please accept my apology, my thanks and best wishes - Newboy.

Hello Skybluepaint,
I have run into difficulties replying to you, I will get back to you when I can.
I do get your goodwill & best wishes
Thank you - Newboy.

Dear all,
I am very hung up on where I need to go, what I need to deal with to begin to move on.
I think each of you that has welcomed me & responded to me has been picking up on the level of my distress.
It speaks to me of levels of distress that you know, have lived/living through and borne. It speaks to me of your pain, difficulties and struggle, speaks to me of the state of your heart - despite all that has gone before - your loveliness - your kindness and your care. Your care. I'll come back to that again. And it speaks to me of courage etc... I could go on & on.
All these things matter to me. I don't want to hurt you or bring you any more distress or trouble you
I am scared that my story will bring you horrors as well. I am scared of your disbelief aaargh so much angst Ive got to stop now

Hi Newboy, you are so kind to keep in touch with your thoughtful posts.

When you are ready, we are here for you. The community members have all the pain a group can ever endure. We are sure that what you have to say will be met with kindness and validation. We are a pretty hard group to shock.

Di

We help others by lending an "ear" to listen with compassion in our hearts for all those that cross our Internet door. Validation and support help the healing process and you are safe here.

Ah Dianne,
I am scared witless. I lose my wits. I keep coming back but I lose my wits. I am drawn by everyones kindness, gentleness. I am enthralled by the respect and consideration shown universally in threads etc. I dont know how come I lose it so completely It doesnt make sense. I have carried this stuff on my own for years. Held it at bay, done a good job with my kids, and survived. Now it comes to letting it goand I am just scared & scared. I am not even as scared of the "monster" as I get when I come here.???
Agony. So be it. Thats how it is at present. I can survive this if I can survive that. Get through.
I'll probably be back again in 1/2 an hr and then have to duck again. So be it.

Respectfully - Russell.

Hi Russell

I recognize a lot of the feelings you are talking about. A lot of the time I feel like I'm on the edge of sanity. And sometimes I know that I've crossed over to the other side.

I can't think what else to post, don't want to take over your thread with my own stuff. But just wanted to say I think I understand.

Starry

Hi Dianne and all,
I am just here contemplating your earlier post to me and the sentence "we are a pretty hard group to shock". I've made a bit of a breakthru here in that I have realised that one of the things that has been so scary for me is a fear that if I shock you , if its "Too Much!" you might reject me - as happens too often when we go for help. I am here for support, I need it maybe more than ever before and I want it. You offer it. You all have been coming to reassure me and I get the depths of that. BUT then I get Really scared - What if I get rejected, ejected Here! - where you know about psychopaths! and their prey! In some ways it doesn't matter so much out in the world if they reject or dont understand because they just dont "Get It". And they wouldnt. Ordinary sane people just wouldnt get it! You have to have been there and -Realised! what is happening. And you have to be more switched-on than the average person to Realise! Anyway - so I was very scared. Ill tell you, I have been coming to this site I dont know how many times a day in an awful bind then ducking away - in an awful bind. My kids must think I'm mad! They know there's something going on and I haven't said much to them yet. I attend to them for a bit & then I come back again and etc. I haven't been doing anything else for a week!
So, back to "we are a pretty hard group to shock"
I just love the glorious understatement in that!
You guys are so tough. you are the very toughness in tough. Not hard - tough.
You are soft, human yet gutsy enough and savvy enough to face it. I think the realisation must always bring shock horror. And the abuse, the abuses, the sustained chains of abuse lived through, survived. And you have seen the very face of Mal, hell itself.... and you still believe in love and goodness and beauty, recovery and the value thats in everyone howsoever battered, depleted and left for dead.
You all are a wonder, wonders, wonderful!
I know I am raving here but its just coming out of me. Its part of the passion and release and tears.
I reckon you can handle me and my psychopath.
I am tired now and considerably eased. Happy almost. Hope I'm not too dottery in the morning. and can find a place to begin. I know I will be looking into the blackness again - as it comes, as it comes.

Goodnight - Newboy.

Hello Starry,
Thank you for your post. Its late now in NZ and I am tired but I didn't want to go to bed without answering you. You know, I think you wouldn't be normal if you didn't go "over the edge" a bit sometimes. Dealing with the abuse and influence from a psychopath in your life is extremely traumatic and "crazy making". Its crazy making stuff! I think any sane person would go over the edge sometimes and certainly make you wonder or think you were. I know it does me, has done me a lot at times. It is a sign you are basically healthy. I think it is proper. Thats only my inexpert opinion. But think about it, you'd have to be very odd not to be affected like this. Psychopath.s Are you getting the help in your situation?

May I ask you another question? - answer only if you wish to.
That is: Are you feeling lost?

Many thanks again for your interest and good wishes - Newboy.

Hi again Starry,
My reply to you, last line, 1st paragraph "psychopath.s" should read "ps" for "postscript"

Cheers - Newboy.

I am. I am very lucky in that I've had a lot of help over the years. Some of it, unfortunately, has been very damaging. But some of it, fortunately, has been very good indeed.

I've also had help and support from the police, which has been very validating amongst other things. I did get referred to a special unit of the police though, and had help from very highly trained officers, who were also very good at their job.




I feel lost and confused a lot of the time. I'm currently working with a really good OT, who is really helping me.

I recognize that a lot of the time I am absent to myself and the world around me. I know that I am physically absent (so that I don't notice if I'm freezing cold, or if I've hurt myself, or if I really need to go to the bathroom, for example). And I know that I am mentally/spiritually absent (I feel that my 'real' self is somewhere off to the right hand side of me, not connected to the physical part of me).

My OT told me that this is what I had to do to survive what was being done to me. She tells me that I might have had to forget myself and try and work him out to survive the trauma, but that that is not a very nice place for me to be now, inside his head.

So she is working on bringing me back in to myself, by asking me always about how I felt about things that happened. We may not talk about the actual events (too traumatic for me, a lot I have simply just blanked out), but we talk about the shards of feelings and memories that I have.

She understands my fear, and helps me explore and express my anger. And she is there, to bear witness to it. So I feel very lucky, and touched that there are such kind and generous people out there. It's taken a whileto find someone like that though, it's been almost 20 years since it happened.

Don't really know if any of that makes sense to you.

Thanks Starry,
Yes what you say does make sense and I'm glad you've got good support. It sounds as though you are on a path that leads to a better life. It leads to a better life because you want a better life and you deserve it. I guess feeling lost & confused sometimes is just a normal part of the journey because we can't quite see the end yet so we question where we are on the path. I think I am writing this as much for myself as for you. I am always in a rush to jump over the uncomfortable bits and get to the comfortable, I just want to be there - Now!! Ha! I think I need to kick-back and accept that sometimes it is going to be uncomfortable and not for ever, and just step-by-step it. One thing I want out of all this is to be better able to take healthy care of myself so I need to learn to practice this as I go along! I hope I remember to heed myself... and I hope my friends remind me.

Best wishes - Newboy.

It is. I think you're absolutely spot on.




I think that the uncomfortable can provide some really interesting insights. At the moment, the thing I'm really uncomfortable with is my anger. Actually, I'd better describe it as rage. I want to kill my dad for what he did to me. I'm uncomfortable with it for a lot of reasons: background and upbringing, but also the fear that I might end up like him, that I might get caught up in his game and that I might perpetuate the cycle.

My OT has told me that fear and anger are connected. I have no trouble tapping into the fear and talking about that (I would say that dominates my life pretty much). But the anger...well, that's another matter entirely. I would rather not go into that, but it's an opportunity really. Just as I've come to realize that there are many gradations and types of fear through exploring that, there must be many gradations and types of anger. And at its most basic level, it's an emotion with a huge amount of energy attached to it. So what about being able to channel that huge amount of energy into something constructive and positive? I don't know...I'm really at the start of this whole train of thought so I'm not sure where it's going and what it's about.




I think that's a huge thing to say. A very positive thing to say.

A lot of the time I really can't be bothered to take healthy care of myself, because I don't think I'm worth it. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Anyway, I hope that helps, in some kind of way

[quote[One thing I want out of all this is to be better able to take healthy care of myself so I need to learn to practice this as I go along! I hope I remember to heed myself... and I hope my friends remind me.[/quote]

I think at the end of the tunnel there is indeed a rainbow, not another train rushing toward you.

In time I think you will know and your friends will support you and not have to remind you. You will know.

I discovered that hurt can be my trigger toward anger.

This is a paraphrase of an old Zen saying:

Stand in the muddy water until the water becomes clear.

Sometimes I wish we could fly to the ending point being true happiness but life takes things step by step.

A lesson not learned is a lesson that will surely repeat itself. Digging deep is tough work, you are showing so much in your wanting to reach out and every single member is here either by writing or by reading and wishing you the best in life and to be even a small part of your journey toward peace and understanding.

Di

Note, I have the software set so the (Psychopath) words convert and unfortunately I am not that swift about this software so I muddle along;)

Hi Starry,
Thanks for your comments.
As for healthy care and being "worth it", two big central aspects of recovery and I'll get to them when timely. In the meantime there's a message for me in every post/response I've read it says ...!
Leave it to you to fiil in
Cheers - Newboy.

Hi there again all,
I think I need to take a break here. I'm finding it just so hard. It takes me ages to make a posting, to marshall my thoughts and then get written coherently. There is just so much pain and turmoil here I think I need to take some time to let my emotions settle & become a bit clearer. Thank you for all your support. Your care is important to me. I will keep in touch some when there is more to say.
In the meantime - My thanks, Newboy

Hi newboy, breaks can be healthy for us, we can normally only process great pain at our own pace.

My thoughts and best wishes to you on your journey, Our community is always here for you to help in any way possible.

Di

One very positive thing...you know your own limits and you're able to verbalize them to others. I admire you for that.

I hope that I didn't upset you with anything I said. Apologies if I did.

Take care

Hi Starry,
No upset, no apology required!
It's just what I need for now. Must say that I am somewhat less agitated than when I came to this site and I believe the support I've had here is playing a part.
appreciations - Newboy

Hello there,
I want to post something again now. Something for me and something for you. Firstly I want to say that when I came upon this site I was in a hell of a mess. I just couldnt understand why I should feel so overwhelmed, such turmoil in my feelings after taking a clear & positive step in my life! - could see some painful & difficult times to face but all in all a simpler clearer life ahead and moving quietly on into that. Not so. I was hit by a bombshell! Reaction. I think I have expressed already the distress in all that - shock, fear, confusion. Not known.
Well, I am moving on thru that now.
Since taking a break here I quite quickly realised it was just that, shock, reaction -to 20 yrs of stress & struggle with my pet psychopath and all that goes with that, I think perhaps something like post traumatic stress? (dont know whether that is the correct term but it does make sense to me.) Quite acceptable, quite understandable - and so I have gone with that and begun to grieve. There is a long way to go, much to reflect on & grieve. Hurt, anger sadness disappointment coming out bit by bit and I'm letting it. I've been going to the beach each day when the kids are in school and spending a few hours there just walking, mostly in the shallows, sometimes round the rocks sometimes just laying down, just letting myself be and my feelings, thoughts be. There are places I can go when I want privacy, if I want to stamp & roar & places to go when I want to see people. Its very nice if they greet me, nod or smile. It touches me at my core - where my "person" lives. And affirms me. Its Lovely. - so simple - so lovely. Living with a psychopath or being involved with a psychopath seems to "attack" this very place and produces such profound discomforts and desolation - its like our very being is under attack. And the effect it has on us all is so.... -dont know what the word is... Its one of the things that we all seem to have in common, every member, every thread. Its the thing about psychopaths "victims" that "non-victims" cannot understand, cannot relate to. Professionals too. That "damage".
Its the unique thing that makes this forum SO valuable, the acceptance and understanding of people that have been there.
And its why I am here.
And that leads me to what I wanted to say at the begining.
That the welcome I was given when I came here and the kind, gentle goodwill I was offered by all, I have somehow carried with me and has somehow carried me too, thru this difficult bit
Many many Thanks. - Newboy.

Hello Newboy, it is very kind of you to check in, we will always be here for you. I must have been asleep at the wheel since I used to have information in the Resources Section for PTSD. I don't recall any member over the years from getting away or being with a Psychopath not having PTSD. There seems to be a pattern beyond PTSD how the body can break down after long term exposure. I will fix the links to more information when I get home later.

We always encourage members who find information interesting in a "locked" area like Resources to just copy over here what you would like to clarify, validate or have questions about.

You are in our thoughts.

Di


PTSD Information

Thank you Di,

I have skimmed through the info posted on PTSD and can see that this applies to me. I will definitely study more closely and take this in to account as I progress in my healing. I can see that long term exposure to psychopath will produce effects in my/our lives that could easily be taken for granted because they have been there so long they have become part of what is normal. That relief from the influence of the psychopath, the "no contact" is not the same as healing. It gives us time space and energy to get about healing.

I want to find healing. I want to come out of this stronger, wiser and a better friend to myself.
Have been getting some glimpses of episodes and events from all thru my life that have not been properly dealt with, that true healing has to include all these as well.

At present I am just reflecting deeply and letting what comes up, come up and be. This seems good for now. Not yet able to focus for any length of time on any particular strand cos too much on my mind.
But I've got some peace, and functioning again!

One thing thats interesting is that in the contact we do have (by phone) I hardly get caught up at all, It just serves as a reminder that I am dealing with a full blown Psychopath and reinforces me in my resolve to move away!

I am aware that I haven't told my story here yet and you'se couldn't be sure she is truly psychopathic or not . Well I will get to that, I want to but still very scared in here and unable to focus etc for now.
One thing that could help: Is it possible to change the title of this thread to "My wife - a psychopath"? Its a small thing really but seems an important distinction - she is only one and she is not the only psychopath to figure in my life. If thats not easy I will work around what we've got.

Well I started out here to write a brief response and thank you and look whats happened - feels like I've covered a lot of ground.

My best regards - Newboy

Hi Newboy, thank you for your kind update. I will change the title to whatever you like, you can post here or email me, and after changing it, I will go back and remove your request for a change to leave a clean trail.

It is indeed very interesting about PTSD and every member that has crossed these doors to our community has suffered greatly. It is also interesting to observe that it can take 3 months to begin, imagine the impact of the years of struggling with it. In addition, not knowing what “it” is.

Now PTSD is becoming common language with all these wars going on and so many military personnel suffering. It was even denied in the beginning for them as an issue. Information is coming out that never had before. I will work to keep the PTSD information up to date with any new information I can find.

It is good to hear you are feeling a shift when you talk to her. I call it my neutral position instead of taking the bait for conflict. Neutral to me is to be in the present moment, no thoughts of ill will, just plainly neutral. Neutral keeps us from getting our chains yanked and sucked back in.

Something’s we remember forever that just stick out in our minds, I may have posted this before but this is one of mine. When I was working at Intel we were forced to a attend a course about some very technical information, as the marketing group and not engineers we just glazed over and had no clue as this person rattled on about binary numbers etc. The instructor became irritated that we were not asking any questions. One of my colleagues raised his hand and said that it takes some understanding of something to be able to ask a question.

That is why I like about researching things and understanding myself and what makes me tick; one question leads me to an answer and another question to follow the trail.

When we seek the answers, the path will become very clear. Standing in muddy water until it becomes clear.

Di

Just at the moment I am feeling murderously angry myself. I could just about do murder myself. I've been coming here and reading all around in the forum while my thoughts and feelings are slowly percolating through.

Believe it or not , I've been finding some consolation or reassurance or something like that even while reading horror story after horror story and the picture in so many cases of realisation dawning for the members as they uncover their psychopath - and I'm sick of it . I am sick of psychopaths. I am sick of their ways. I am sick of their destruction and death-dealing. I am sick of them creating so much hell for ordinary people. I am sick of so many stories and new ones every day and its been going on for ever. However did people cope before there was support and places such as this? I am sick of the whole b... business. The damage and destruction they do whatever the ways they act out big or small, world stage or just one unheard hapless soul. It doesn't matter, its the same thing whoever the victim(s) is/are, and whatever the scenario. I'm just now thinking of that guy, leader in Rwanda, who before the genocide bought 900,000 machetes to equip his thugs before setting them on with hatred. Aid money he used. Yaaargh.! I've had them. I am thoroughly sick and sickened with them. And I'm sick of being sickened by them. Thoroughly sickened - angry, Profoundly Angry . Could just about do murder myself. I could mince heads right now, if I could get them all... dont want one - want all..

And another thing. I think without exception, their goals , their petty fantasies ,without exception, are so pathetic , so childish and actually achieve So little for them - only a "feeling" of "power" - not real power at all. They dont want to take on the strong man. The strong person. No - they only know how to pick on the vulnerable and helpless and innocent. Some Power!
They won't contend with a strong character, healthy whole people! When confronted with a strong personality Oh then y see the pretence, the denial, the evasion, the victim, the lies, the stone wall, the pleas for sympathy, and forgiveness (those who know no forgiveness, no mercy). They want all the advantages of a compassionate, co-operative society (or partner) while offering none. They only seek to use , to take advantage and abuse, for what? - the momentary satisfaction of gaining that fulfilment of the fantasy of "victory", winning or "supremacy". And even that doesn't satisfy them for long. They soon have to go and do it all again! I believe at core its not the money or sex or cruelty they can exercise that they really seek, its the sense of power at the win. Ooh what power! ??? BAH!

Y know there are what I call "full blown" psychopaths and "half blown" and these are almost as troublesome and dangerous in society as the full blown cos they are harder to distinguish and root out and so go on wreaking lower level violence often for much longer at some persons cost! Hell Hell hell!
My anger is somewhat quieted now, but its coming from very deep.

It is that quiet, solid and sure, angry passion.

Goodnight now and thanks for listening - Newboy.

Newboy - I can sympathise with so much you say. Have you told your story here? If you haven't, might it help to do so?

Hi Newboy, thanks for expressing how you feel, it is indeed frustrating, if you would have asked me years ago if I would still have the forum, I would have had no idea, yet they still keep coming.

You are very right, it is the nice and kind people they do their dirt on. Like you mentioned we enable them in many ways all over the world and take a blind eye look in the other direction. Sometimes I wonder if as a society we really understand these things are so wrong and inhumane it boggles the mind. Because it isn't them it is happening to there is little connection.

Even closer to home people who we think are our friends run like rabbits instead of staying around and offering genuine support, even if that is just listening.

Di

Hello Forum,
I want to start telling my story. It may be in brief because I havent got a lot of time now and also because I have a lot of difficulty with my feelings. I have such a range of feelings that "interfere" when I try to write from a particular position or even just matter-of-factly. It seems lots of us become "confusticated" when we try to talk of our experience to others so there's another reason for them to have difficulty understanding us. Apart from the content sounding like "Alien Adventures - When An Alien Took Over My Life"! However I think it will be good for me to start telling, maybe bit by bit. Help me face up to the whole grievous thing. I've been slowly getting a better picture of the "mass" that I have to deal with and coming to understand my state (PTSD) better.
Theres another reason too : but I've gotten "bushed" again. I'm just not going to keep labouring it ,so
Bye for Now, - Newboy.

Hi Newboy,

You will know when you are ready and the words will flow. We will still be here so at your own pace and comfort level.

Di

Hi again Di & all,
Ready now to say some more. The "other reason " I spoke of has to do with you forum members who have invited me to join in and speak out. I hear your care and have been pained at my inability to reply, leaving you up in the air. Not fair. I am sorry if that has caused you any distress. It does distress me some when members sometimes seem to disappear without a word and it leaves me wondering where & how they are and how coping etc. Many times I have tried to post something to a thread and just got myself into a state. Elvie in particular - I tried and tried to reply to you, still got some things to say to you, your situation but for now just have to accept that thats where its at for me. Just simply cant do it! I regret this but can see I first need to deal with my own can of worms before I can be much good to anyone! This is an unfamiliar & uncomfortable position for me and I think Hmm.. probably the PTSD.
This whole PTSD thing has completely taken me by surprise, floored me actually so I've been standing in Di's "Muddy Water" and letting things crystallise a bit. I've realised a couple of things.
Firstly: I hadn't factored for it or anything like it - the depth of reaction, shock really when I decided to cut myself free from the psychopath. Totally new for me. It makes sense when I think about soldiers and war and having to keep functioning to survive while still in the battle or war zone. Y cant take time out to process all the feelings when you're in a survival situation, you're too full on trying to survive. So then I can imagine it all coming home to roost when relieved. I hadn't foreseen this for myself in my situation. Ive been so long in survival mode, so used to it, that I'd come to take it for granted. Wow.
Secondly: This PSTD is the product of a long history of abuse etc. and emotional backlog to be faced & accepted if I'm to move on.
And thirdly: There are some important aspects round an earlier psychopath experience that I also have been discounting, forgotten, again put aside in order to survive, manage my through, with 4 young kids, hostile wife acting out on me and in a culture that doesn't allow that my situation could even exist! So wow again!
I think I'm allowed to have PTSD and not cope very well for a bit!
I'm feeling much better now and this writing in short bursts is working for me.
Thanks for being so patient and understanding. The world I've been living in has so little of it and no will to comprehend.
Cheers to all - Newboy.

Hi Newboy,

Short bursts, whatever works for you, there are no rules or format to follow when a person is in need.

Please understand that everyone here has had a seat in the same boat of horror just the characters and situations are all unique.

I understand your feelings, it is hard to see people move along or just need a break, it comes from hoping they are okay. I have had to wrangle with that myself for close to 14 years. Wondering if I did something wrong or a million other concerns. It just is what it is, that has always been the pattern and for that my friend I have no answer why. Finally I had to decide to hope and pray the best for any member that came to join us seeking help left in a better place or at least an answer to their question/s. Sometimes I would imagine the pain just takes over and difficulties arise speaking of these horrors. There are hundreds of possible scenarios but it comes down to their own free will and we can just keep the door open for them to read or post.

Many pass by and read for a very long time and never post, we have visitors from all over the world. Some magazine in Korea has been one of the top referral links for many years, how, why, I can't answer any of that.

There are no answers or clues where members may be at any stage of their situation. The lights are always on here and everyone is welcome to come and decide what they need for their own unique situation.

Picture us as that beacon of light you can see through the fog from your ship. When you are ready you will steer your boat toward that light at whatever pace works the best for you. Sometimes you might drop your anchor in the water and sit, other times the urge to turn back takes over, do what feels right for you.

Di

Dear Dianne and others,
at the present time I am almost helpless to respond to the things you and others have been offering me in reaching out and posting to me. I do get your thoughts and understanding and I appreciate that very much & I am still ticking on slowly and going on with all this. It is yet asking too much of myself to make any coherent posting in response to yous or even simply tell my story. I have sometimes been labouring at this which is good up to a point, spending hours sometimes but then I just abandon what I've done cos it suddenly seems so inadequate and frustrating from a different position. I'll give you an example. The other night I set out to give you a brief potted history of the last 20 yrs and psychopaths etc, I wrote something like: "Soon after we married I became aware that there were some issues to be dealt with" and thats how I saw it at the time - and a simple clear statement of that. Then a bit later rereading what I had written I had this great reaction. !@#$%^ what! "Some issues to be dealt with! - what a statement. From where I stand now I can see she was engaged in full-on nuclear war against me and all I stood for and I am trying to fight with a brown paper bag and goodwill! I just had this great angry reaction and raged and couldn't post! Totally inadequate statement in my situation so could'nt post it and simply tell the story. Thats how it is at present. Thanks for being there, your understanding and attentiveness
My - something - to tou all - Newboy

Hi Newboy, it is good to hear from you, we would never in any way pressure you. You will know and only you can be that judge. It is quite common fyi that victims all see that red flag in the beginning and yes indeed good kind people let it flow past as just something they might have misunderstood.

Wishes of peace your way.

I don't watch Oprah but happened to here these words and added a touch to them:

You are responsible for your life and when you get that you are free
Little by little we start to release the shame that will finally set us free

Di

Newboy,

This is such a great quote:

From where I stand now I can see she was engaged in full-on nuclear war against me and all I stood for and I am trying to fight with a brown paper bag and goodwill!


I think Dianne is right, that is how we all felt. Gosh, this person is a bit odd, but, oh well, that is just them. Sometimes the things she says just don't make logical sense. She has an odd way with words. Yet, We forgive, love, and continue to love and support. Hmmm.. this person doesn't have any friends. Well, that just makes you feel more sorry for them, doesn't it? You want to HELP them. And that desire to help, heal, be there for them never stops. They keep gaslighting throughout the relationship to get you to run back, help out again. Then, that one time where you just can't do it anymore, for whatever reason, you have your own problems to deal with or you are simply exasperated, tired of always running to the rescue, you just want them to trust and love, they will lash out.

I hope you can continue to work on finding words and telling your story. We will be here when you do.

Hi Skybluepaint,
I am aware that you posted and welcomed me when I first came to this site, and thank you. I want to tell you I'm not in that same state of turmoil I was in then, I have peace and I'm just quietly going on digesting my feelings and thoughts. Lots to deal with (in this PTSD) and I'm not yet nearly functioning but I'm going to give it as much time as it takes. I am making this time "My Time". I've spent a lot of time looking after others and now its my turn. Thats not to say I'm ignoring them but I am making myself a priority and not trying to do a lot else except what has simple "pluses" for me and us.
You are "spot on" in your description - an almost word-perfect picture of my situation and events around when the "bomb" dropped.

"I think Dianne is right, that is how we all felt. Gosh, this person is a bit odd, but, oh well, that is just them. Sometimes the things she says just don't make logical sense. She has an odd way with words. Yet, We forgive, love, and continue to love and support. Hmmm.. this person doesn't have any friends. Well, that just makes you feel more sorry for them, doesn't it? You want to HELP them. And that desire to help, heal, be there for them never stops. They keep gaslighting throughout the relationship to get you to run back, help out again. Then, that one time where you just can't do it anymore, for whatever reason, you have your own problems to deal with or you are simply exasperated, tired of always running to the rescue, you just want them to trust and love, they will lash out."

I guess this must be something like your own experience - sounds like you (and Dianne) almost expect this to be the common experience of a psychopaths subjects. Or are we psychopaths Objects! Ha! NOT LIKELY! - We are our own and our lives are our own - even married. We are to share our lives as we choose and agree and we are absolutely NOT HERE to be used and abused by ANY others. NO ONE HAS ANY RIGHTS OVER ANY OTHER. and we are not their POSSESSION. whatever they may think!
I had an experience like you describe about 18mths into marriage - she "lashed out". For me this was not a "red-flag" moment but a full on assault. An A-bomb attack! She dropped her bomb but just missed the mark and set the alarm bells off big style! I think this attack was meant to "slay" me but to tell the truth some of the blast went over my head at first - I was so staggered - but I clearly saw I had a BIG problem and some of it I could see very clearly. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear. Thus began years of trying to figure out what I was dealing with . and trying to negotiate! !@#$%^ with a psychopath! Hopeless! What a downer - just thinking about the prospect of the years to follow. It wasn't all down but boy it was hard.
More later. And Thanks - you sparked me.
By the way, would you tell me what is gaslighting?
Many Thanks - Newboy.

Hi Newboy, here is how the term came to be, btw, I have seen the movie and it is excellent, highly recommend the dynamics of how clever the husband was, clearly he was a Psychopath, won't give the movie away but it is a very look from the outide how it transpires on the big screen

Here is a good source, I added it to the Resource Section:

What is Gaslighting? - Resource Section

Hi Dianne,
Thanks for explaining "gaslighting" for me. Its a term that I've struck several times reading round the forum but didn't understand - hadn't heard of it before. I wondered if it refered to the psychopaths "other liaisons" or his other life, you know the "GOOOOD guy, charmer public persona. In these parts we just have the term "head-screwing" which is a general term covering all forms of screwing round with peoples minds. Am I right in thinking that this is a particular manipulation aimed at undermining targets confidence in their own perceptions, discernment? Anyway its hideous, and had me going round saying "oh dear" quite a lot this arvo - quite low and grim thoughts about about the lives of people broken down in these ways. Too Bad. Very very bad.
I haven't really had to this happen to me at least in any sustained way. I can see how this could easily be part of the psychopaths strategy and where successful renders their target utterly in pieces, helpless isolated and out of control. What chance do their instincts have of being brought into play with all that going on? Oh wretched
To deal with a psychopath you need ALL your instincts and wits about you every minute of the day, a good BS detector constantly on watch and the ability to stay cool, not react and not show when they expose themselves in the subtle ways.
Anyway, enough from me, v tired, didn't intend to say all this
did intend to say thank you - Newboy.

Hi Newboy,

There is an online free version of the movie Gas Light with Ingrid Bergman and other sites have clips, a must see. I am out for awhile but will post the link later tonight and chat some more.

Di

Diane,
I read this post and would just like to express that it was very powerful for me. I can really relate to this. Tell me if my perception of this is correct. This type of evil so gradually changes the environment which is per say your mindset that even you yourself do not realize it until 1 day 15 or 20 years later you have come to the point that you either have to completely be overcome by the psychpath or you choose to begin tko believe that maybe it's them with the problem and not you.
This is a very difficult inward battle that your peers cannot even see. They've been telling you for years that you should not deal with this psycho but you don't even feel comfortable telling them because they've begun to view you as a weakling because you've tolerated your mates oddity for so long. Am I totally off here?

Newboy, I really respect your outreach and have read all your posts. I think that this is even a more difficult situation for you since most of the time the psychopath is a man. Thankyou for for reaching out to this community and may we all journey through the healing process together. The statement that was made about returning to the beauty of life is so true. I think that I enjoy more and even view the wonders of nature through a different set of eyes when I'm away from my psychopath. I often have set backs of feelings that I have no self respect and general worthlessness but that will get better with time because I BELIEVE! and HOPE! God meant for us to be here to glorify Him, not a psychopath.
Lolly

Yes, Lolly, that is how it works exactly. The self doubt is the key that flips the switch to get a person to begin to even wonder their own sanity. PTSD also can kick in in such a quick way, things get very confusing. He totally starts the journey to tilt your world to match his sick and evil one making you belive that pleasing him is the priority.

When you catch yourself trying to reason with him, stop and ask yourself what good will that do, you are dealing with someone who lacks the capacity to reason and the best person on earth to portray the victim.

If you watch the movie it is fasciinating to see on screen vs. paper. It is available on www.netflix.com. They have a free 30 day trial. It is probably instantly on demand and you can watch it on your computer.

IMO, in the case of evil it has to creep in slowly to not be rejected but to gain the power they are after over you.

A therapist told me something a million years ago that I never forgot, if people had a support group who shared the same issues or friends, meaning real friends there would be no need for so many therapists in the world. The others just can't or won't listen without judgement or understanding.

Everyone here is on the same tug boat moving to shore, there will be a time that you reach the shore, I have faith in your ability, your eyes are open wide.

Try and watch that movie and get a laser focus on your son, you are part way there, he has declared he wants to be with you, lets get him home where he belongs.


Di

Hello all,
thought it might be good to check in here after an interval. Things are moving on for me some and although I haven't posted I have been reading during this period and following the progress of active members, - lots of quiet threads I see and I hope this means they too are finding the strength and power to move on in their situations. It is out of this world - the horrors and chaos, misery, that a Psychopath brings into lives...
We have had a lot of publicity recently about a Psychopath, convicted for a historical murder and sentenced to 30 yrs, brought to justice after a very extensive and tenacious international police enquiry and by the effort and commitment of a hugely courageous local woman (and her family) whose attempted murder exposed the first one. They pursued the matter over 10 yrs! and tho a ghastly story a right outcome. A very good thing that has come out of this is a lot of information that exposes the Psychopath, how he works, his personality. His remorseless, callous, limitless, heartlessness. And the false charm with which he has been able to deceive and ensnare others - and continue. I think this publicity (and hope) will sharpen the public awareness and consciousness of Psychopaths and warn that they exist, are out there and not as far away as you think.
And I am just wowed by this lady, her family and the police who took her seriously.
I thought you might like to hear this.
I had also thought to say some more of myself but I am tired now - not sleeping so well at the mo so goodnight for now
and - Thanks for being there!
Newboy

Hi again,
I want to add a correction to my last post. I think it is not simply correct to label a psychopaths "charm" as "false". Misleading would be a better term. Or unreliable. Their charm can also be real as well or have some real elements, hence their ability to "take in" people who are otherwise savvy. And hence some of our confusion when we are trying to make sense out of our experience when the relationship "turns" - or oscillates as some describe.
Psychopaths are often described as charismatic or charming, but not always, and sometimes seem almost the opposite, to lack confidence and assertiveness. I think a key difference here , from more normal people is the link with the other elevated traits and how they choose or have learned, to play them out.
What i am trying to say here, and I'm struggling now, is that it may not just be deceitfulness and manipulation operating with their charm, or the appeal of your interest or their need to be in control or for excitement etc but a combination of all the traits in varying proportions.
I dont think it is helpful to leave that statement ("false charm") uncorrected when readers may be trying to come to terms with their psychopaths behaviour and their own responses even tho, on the other hand, I would almost guarantee elements of deceit, and manipulation in the psychopaths charm!
Sorry for the sloppy writing.
A persons charm or charisma is no indicator of how that person will respond when crossed, thwarted, or disappointed.

Cheers - Newboy.

Lolly and Di, I will post again to you.
Elvie - if you are reading, this is some of what I wanted to say to you.
One other thing, the convicted psychopath, (in previous post - Malcolm Webster his name), I didn't know him or his charm. I did encounter him and had a brief conversation once and he showed me no charm so properly I shouldnt describe it at all! There was something interesting about that though, but that too is another story for another day.
Bye for now - Newboy.

Hello Newboy, just stopping by to say hello. I really like your quote:

Hello Forum,
I'm calling in to let you know I am OK and still here and moving slowly forward with this thing. Its all taking so much longer than I would have thought but thats OK because I want to make a good and thorough job of healing. For this last 20 yrs to be worthwhile I want the next 20 to be REALLY good. And my kids to be in good shape. These are the 2 things I want and to achieve these I need to make a thorough recovery myself. I want my kids to be able to work it all out for themselves, their lives, so I need to equip them, somehow not poison them, and to be real myself, a bit of a tricky balance sometimes. Two of my kids are showings signs of stress/distress at present so I'm giving that some time and focus too. There is a lot of deep contemplation going on here. I have found a counsellor and tho he doesn't understand about psychopaths, we have found a way to work. It is not about her but about me and where I am. He treats me with respect. I think he is getting a little insight as well, as we go along. PTSD is moving along too. I am not sleeping nearly as well as I always have, - wake up sometimes several times with shock - alarm/horrors - adrenaline rushing through my body and the shock or horror that woke me has disappeared in a flash before I know it. I am taking it that this is my subconscious coming nearer the surface so this is good. It is funny to wake up like this and there not be any apparent immediate cause!
I dont want to take too much attention here and I am aware there are lots of new members been posting, I cant address you all but I feel for you, I admire you - your guts, stamina and above all your humanness which has survived!
I am very grateful, Di & all, for this place where I can express myself and you acceptance. - Newboy.

Hi Newboy, always great to hear about where you are. Even though the therapist is not up on Psychopaths if I might make a suggestion he should be able to help you with boundary issues. Having clear boundaries and navigating through life can be a bit less tricky. It teaches us to not just go along with things but be clear about what our boundaries are. For example one boundary I have is that I don't engage in any hostile arguments or conversations in someones home or in life in general (I call it my no abuse boundary), for example if another guest walks up and starts in, I politely excuse myself from the person, say something to the hostess about I have to leave and how much I have enjoyed being there and don't mention the negative person. I have the same policy in my own home, for example I had an upset neighbor and when she was in my home and got upset toward me over something crazy, I just asked her to leave that I don't accept that kind of behavior in my own home. That in a nutshell is what boundaries are all about.

It used to happen here at the forum when on rare occasions I had to ban a person, I would always receive a hateful name calling email, I decided that I don't dish out abuse and I don't take it so I no longer will even open the email. They can say what they want but my boundary is that I don't have to read it.

Another small example if I am out walking my dogs and another person tries to approach me with their dog, I cross the street and if they don't get the message I tell them to stay back. I don't risk their dog attacking mine, it happened once when the owner said, oh my dog is really nice, not exactly correct when the dog moved in to attack. Now I just do it out of protection and having clear boundaries, do some people get ticked, sure, do I care, no, my boundary is my boundary and they have the choice to accept it or get upset, it has no impact on me which route they choose to behave.

The best expression I learned after a meditation during the Q & A, I asked Cheri what to say when someone comes up and starts launching into a negative conversation, I just say, oh, if I were in your shoes I would probably feel the same way and then I get away. I am not in their shoes so it is just a method to escape their hostile energy.

I don't dish out abuse and I don't engage in it even if the person is speaking in an abusive manner about someone else.

Since you mentioned nightmares you might try being in silence and surrounding yourself in peace before you drop off to sleep. A full night sleep is critical for our brains to rewire and helps with depression, I saw an interesting UTube video about that and will look for it.

Di

Newboy, it's always good to hear where you're at. Your determination, compassion and courage are very inspiring.

Di, thank you so much for sharing about boundaries. I really struggle with this one. I know on the odd occasion when I get it right, because it feels very calm and like I have a lot of space around me. But most of the time I let people trample right into my space and I feel crushed.

Hi Starry, I used to let people trample me also. When I lived in a central location people would just stop by unannounced and not even bother to inquire if it was a good time. I got some practice saying, hi, nice to see you would love to invite you in but I am busy. You feel empowered and it is important to protect your space. Same with the phone, if I am busy even watching a movie there is no law saying I have to answer it, even if I am not doing anything and just don't feel like being disturbed.

The first couple of times you do it I know it will be hard but it is easy for me now. By making life on your terms you will find your mind can be clearer and not keep being invaded.

I remember when I used to go to the local coffee house and my girls and I would be sitting there strangers would walk up and say hi to them because they loved people and were very friendly. On occasion they started to launch into a story (I listened to a couple then set a boundary) and tell me some dreadful story how their dog got killed or whatever. So then I learned when they started with a story, I just politely stopped them and asked them if the story had a happy ending and when they said no, I told them I have rescued animals my entire life and seen a lot of pain in my life so I would prefer to not hear their story. Why should I hear something horrible from a stranger when all I was doing was sitting there enjoying my time with my dogs and having my coffee. I am sorry they had a painful experience but really that is something they should share with a friend.

Life is tough enough without getting dumped on. People who are strangers will just sometimes say some horrible negative things and I just don't need to hear about it.

Di