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#1096 - 06/04/03 04:12 PM My Story - Part One
Anonymous
Unregistered


To anyone who wants to introduce themselves, please use this thread when you are comfortable to try to tell us your story. Try to include why and how you came to the conclusion that you are involved with a Psychopath.

Di


Edited by Dianne E. (06/30/03 12:13 PM)

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#1097 - 09/05/02 09:04 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


The psychopath I married actually had me arrested for using his credit card during our marriage. He waited almost two years to have me arrested, and was able to do so because he knew the State Attorney. I had no access to any money during the end of our marriage, no joint accounts of any type. He was/is a wealthy white collar guy, politically connected in our small community. When he had me arrested, I finally felt safe for once, I was in jail! I knew he could not touch me there. I was released several hours later, only to go back to the same terror I had known. He will not stop until I am dead, this is a game for him after all. He wants to win. I don't want to play, but I have no where to go, no way to get away from him and his sickness.

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#1098 - 09/06/02 01:35 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


whisper
(member)
09/06/02 09:13 AM

I need help in determining if I was involved with a P. I tried to post a message from my home page but it was disabled.

My story begind innocently enough. I met this man at my work.A bunch of us would sit at a table at lunch time.I didnt really take notice of him at first,he wasnt handsome,carried a few xtra pounds and was bald.I listened to him talk,man he had so many interesting stories to tell.Gambling,horses ..money..he interested me.The ladies seemed to find him charming,and I was beginning to find him charming also.

One day ,jokingly,I told him i was going to be in the falls for a weekend.he said he was going to be there also and that i should meet him there,in the casino..( a favourite spot of his) Of course I had no intentions of meeting him.
We continued to innocently flirt..and boy he was good at it.

My marraige was failing and I was vulnerable for attention.I had recently lost alot of weight and was feeling good about myself,although I never considered myself attractive.I think he sensed my needs and the pursuit began.

He constantly asked me out.Every time I turned around he was there.In my work place...near my schedule there for every break.He would wait for me to finish work,and ask me over and over to go out with him. He was also married,of course he gave me the sad story.His marraige was over..they didnt sleep together have sexual relations,took separate vacations, etc. etc. He sold jewelery on the side and was quite a popular person.He did as little work as he possibly could and managed to get away with it.he was truly amazing..I thought.

I finally gave in and agreed to go out with him,I had a bad feeling but i was lonely for attention from a man and he was giving that to me in excess. Then the rollercoaster ride began. Our first date he bought me perfume and took me to a very expensive restaurant.The second date he bought me an expensive watch and again only the finest restaurants.
he told me I was beautiful..beautiful in any kind of light..and those charming words never stopped. he purchased a cell phone so I can phone him any time..and he expected me to phone often to make sure I was home,not out with friends.The gifts never stopped.He took me to weekend getaway at a very expensive Hotel,fireplace and everything included.I was on top of the world. He showed me newspaper clippings of his families involvement with the mob..killings..bootlegging,

I found out he was a bookie at one time and was in jail and infront of the courts often. His father was an important figure in the underworld and would always bail him out of trouble. My P was at one time a Jockey and even fixed the races for money.He got caught and was told to find a decent job and stay out of trouble.Thats how he ended up at my workplace. He drove a big cadilac,wore expensive suits..suits that had been stolen for him..an expensive ring on his pinky..he looked like a mobster and most mobsters of past, were his heros. he never wanted children,and went nuts when he found out his wife was pregnant.Slept with another women the night before his wedding and bragged about it.he thought nothing of stealing.and would often slip into a convenience store and steal a cigar,he seemed to enjoy taking from others and pulling something over on them.

Our affair lasted about two years.In that time,he hated my friends.Didnt want me to be with anyone but him.Was exremely jealous.I felt like I was suffocating.But I loved him.. I tried to break off about three times..each time he would phone a thousand times,leave notes on my
windshield..I would always go back.I didnt realize all of the lies he had told me until the end of our relationship.he was so good at lying and when I started to catch him in his lies he would only change the story until I got confused.He would constantly tell me his friends,women included would call him and tell him to be careful of me ,not to get hurt.He said people at work were talking about me and thoguth I was a gold digger..people I thought were my friends.They were all lies.. the lies became worse when I said I couldnt be with him anymore as long as he was married.

Things really got out of control them..His lies were herendous! Trying to tell me someone phoned his wife at
work and told her I had slept with her husband.He said only threee people knew that,his mother and she wouldnt have phoned,me, and I wouldnt have phoned and my girlfriend...he wanted me to think my good friend called so I would hate her and never speak to her again.I was irrate...the mask was coming off..he was nuts and the lies continued! he told me I was an F-- bum and that I would never have anything.
He always believed he was better than everyone else and people needed him to fix there problems,that they used him..but they would never listen to him.he ruined hi friends chance at a happy marraige by constantly brain washing him..his friend is a pharmacist,so he can get any drugs he needs,even for horses to make them run faster.
He called me a peice of shi--and I believe he thought I was..so why did he want me?

My story could go on and on..but Im getting frustrated.
I ended up going back one more time..boy I was a fool! He didnt pick me up,I had to meet him he always drove me...no fancy dinner,no gifts no charming words..just sex and then he dropped me off and didnt phone me again...I felt like a prostitute..and he was probably laughing all the way to his next victim.

I always believed he loved me,wanted to marry me ,take me to tropical islands. I started to do some research on P's..a friend of mine had been in a relationship with one and I kept feeling that the man I was involved with could be one. He has all the criterea.. Is there anyone out there who can help me.I feel depressed,stupid ,sad..confused...hurt..
all the emotions are swimming in my head.I hate what he did to me...but part of me still misses him!!
How crazy is that? I will look forward to a response..

Edited by whisper (09/06/02 09:14 AM)

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#1099 - 09/09/02 10:08 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Whisper, Hi. You asked for my reactions to your story, on another thread. I am going to answer here so that I can view your story while I write my response.

"He showed me newspaper clippings of his families involvement with the mob..killings..bootlegging,"

Every word you write about this charming con man screams MOBSTER to me.

I'll admit I have never met a mobster. But I am a memoir and biography junkie, and I have read a number of true accounts by and about them.

This guy walks like a duck...

"I found out he was a bookie at one time and was in jail and infront of the courts often. His father was an important figure in the underworld and would always bail him out of trouble. My P was at one time a Jockey and even fixed the races for money."

"He drove a big cadilac,wore expensive suits..suits that had been stolen for him..an expensive ring on his pinky..he looked like a mobster and most mobsters of past, were his heros."

Talks a duck...

"he told me I was an F-- bum" That is mob lingo.

Besides being a mobster, probably small time, on the periphery of that life, he also sounds like a psychopath. He has superficial charm, disregard for others' feelings (his wife's and yours), grandiosity, a need for stimulation (affairs, breaking the law), pathological lying (his marriage was over; if it was, he would leave), conning and manipulativeness, lack of remorse, emotional poverty, callousness. lack of empathy, parasitic lifestyle (breaking the law for gain), impulsiivity (toward you), irresponsibility (to his wife), denial of responsibility for his actions, lack of commitment to longterm realtionships, unconsconable behavior, blaming of others (you're the effing bum, not him), lack of remorse, exaggerated sexuality (he had a wife, why would he be shadowing you like a lovesick schoolboy?), risk taking, inability to resist temptation, antagonistic (the effing bum comment), deprecating attitidue towards opposite sex (effing bum, you'll never have anything, implying you could only have anything through HIM), lack of interest in bonding with a mate (his wife; you, if married him),poor judgment, failure to learn by experience (he was told to get a job and stop breaking the law; he is still breaking the law) pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, sex life impersonal, trivial and poorly integrated, failure to follow any life plan..."

"I hate what he did to me...but part of me still misses him!!
How crazy is that?"

The entire experience of being with a psychopath is crazy. It is no exaggeration to say, in fact I believe it is bald truth, that being with a psychopath literally induces mental illness. That is not to say that any of us are mentally ill. The cause of the mental illness is external. It is the psychopath. The definition of mental illness is a disconnection from reality, and the psychopath causes that in us. This absolute fact about psychopath's victims would no doubt fly in the face of modern psychology which holds that all of one's unhealthy behavior derives from one's own personality. Not in the case of a psychopath's victim! He has subtly turned you against your self and your best interests, your wisdom, strength, everything you are. It will take some time to regenerate healthy impulses from within you. But you can and will do it with effort and commitment.

Whisper, you will make it out. You are making it out. I'm glad you found us.

kris

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#1100 - 09/10/02 06:46 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Whisper,

You are not alone. Like you, I was "the other woman," and something I am definitely not proud of. I was lead to believe that he was leaving that month as it was just a matter of her getting on her feet and feeling better. As it happened, the month turned into three and then three more until I realized he was not going to leave.

Like you, he had me emotionally attached with his charm. Unlike your situation, he was not involved in crime,
and had the same job for years. He was a good liar because he told the truth about things that could be proven as in what he did, where he worked and where he lived. What could not be determined was his true feelings for me and if he was a serial cheater. Yet lightbulbs did go off even though I was thoroughly charmed in the beginning. I got to be more dubious about his heavy drinking and found out about his addiction to porn. When I questioned him on this, I got attacked as not trusting him and trying to control him. I ended up like feeling like the one who did the wrong and tried to become oblivious to what he was doing.

I can understand how you still miss him. He was exciting to be with, at least mine was in the beginning, and the physical part was probably fantastic. We have to remember that what we experienced was not real---it was all act for the excitement, ego boost and sex. The only way to get over him is to stay out of his life, involved yourself with true friends and family and try to find someone who is real. If you decide you want to go back just for the physical part, realize that you are just being used and you are risking your emotional health---you will be taken back into the emotional abyess of a roller coaster. Beenthere




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#1101 - 09/10/02 11:51 AM Re: My Story...walks like a duck,talks like a duck
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Kris for your reply.So I guess I know one thing for sure.. he is definitley a duck!!!
Do you suppose his poor wife knows? To bad she couldnt find this site.I won't interfere with her at all,but I know she must have gone through hell and back.I hope God will find her and help her.I know she has gone to a different church looking for help.Im sure she has no friends because of her P husband.
I think I'll say a prayer for her...I'm not a church person.I do believe in a higher power and hope someone will find her and help her...Once again, thank you ... Whisper

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#1102 - 09/10/02 11:59 AM Re: My Story..the other woman
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone. Sometimes you have to wonder if they aren't all the same person,in one way they are..a beast is a beast!
My P also has stayed with the same the job for years..24 to be exact. I will probably run into tomorrow.Geeze it's still hard to accept he didn't love me.God,how can anyone play those games with ones heart!.I know he was involved with another worker..a boss..boy, wouldn't I love to exchange notes with her.He said they were together about two years also.She left to go back to her husband.I wonder? Anyway,she is no longer around and I won't preoccupy myself with that! I will walk by with quiet dignity.
Thank you... Whisper

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#1103 - 09/11/02 03:35 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am posting this for a new member who wrote it in email and didn't want to have to retype.

Hi, Dianne I have been reading your forum, for the strentgh it gives to me. I have been married to a psychopath for 25 years since I was 17. There has been physical,( my nose broke, punched, choked, kicked, etc.) through the years. Along with even more painful, emotional, and verbal abuse, peppered along the way with intermittent crumbs of caring or
affection. He is extremely controlling, after the house that we had lived in for over 20 years was put in my name only ,by my parent's he, being a carpenter said he would never do any work on my house. To this he has kept his promise, although he has lived in this house rent free
for over two decades. He is self employed and leeches off of everybody, he does not want to work.

We have 4 children 20, 8, 6, and 4. He turned on our oldest son last Jan. pulled out a knife from his pocket, and said
"I am going to cut that f------ throat, he then chased our son acrossthe yard to my parents house where he tried to bust down the door to get to him. only my dad answering the door with a loaded gun made him retreat. The cops came out and he turned it all around on our son to make him seem the victim. I thought this would make that maniac realize
he needed help, but to the contrary he just hated our son more,a few months after the incident, I said to him that I knew he would of cut our sons throat if he would of caught him. He looked at me with an evil look and said " Yeah I would love to of cut his throat and I would love to cut yours too. For the first time I called the cops and old them what he had said, they came out, and even though I did not want to press charges they took him in . He spent one night in jail, for which now he says he will never forgive or trust me again for putting him in jail, which I was also the one who refused to testify against him so the case was
dismissed. Since this has happened he has been living with his equally evil mother. Foolishly I have been allowing, him to come over several times a week and spend the night, having sex, waiting on him, and just trying not to make him fly into his crazy rages. All the time having him tell me that he will never live with us as a family because I put
him in jail. After months of him staying with me and the children, he will say " What did you think I wanted to live with you again? Well you must be kidding after you put me in jail".

How can this subhuman think I can have sex and do al the things we did when we were living together, and not feel that he wants to be a family. Oh Dianne how can an intelligent woman be so stupid. Please anything you might be able to share with me to help me release myself
from this remorseless monster. Thnks so much, Mariann.

ps, is there hope he will change I have held on to that hope for so long, but the change in him seems to be for the worse.

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#1104 - 09/11/02 03:58 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Mariann and welcome to the forum. I'm so glad you found your way here as this is a haven for the victims of psychopaths. Your husband sounds controlling and fightening as you describe him. I'm so very sorry for the pain that you and your children have been subject to by him. Please come here and post as often as you wish or need to. Its wonderful to get the validation and support as so many of us have experienced.

Warmly,
Cherie

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#1105 - 09/12/02 01:38 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Whew Marianne!

What a charmer he sounds like. He sounds extraordinarily like someone that my dear older son is heading to turn into. I must say, I like your father's style in meeting him with a loaded gun. But I guess this guy causes your parents a lot of heartache too, seeing their grandchildren with such a father.

A lot of people have noted that antisocials/psychopaths are "fearless". I'm puzzled by that as a characteristic, because although I do know some "fearless" ones, the majority that I know are real cowards. My son for example, is a terrific coward. It is very difficult for me to say that but it is so. But coward or not, my (present) wife is afraid of him, and is afraid for me. He pretends in recent years that he is afraid of me, which is an outright lie, but it gets him sympathy from people, for a while, anyway.

Just recently he was accused of a very significant theft. The charges were dropped but he is a couple of months out of work now, and certainly he got no reference from his employer. He doesn't seem to lack money. I happen to have about a hundred dollars which belongs to him, and he doesn't press me for it, although I have reminded him.

And just these days, I feel the first stirrings of an element of being afraid of him. He's a lot bigger than I am, and in his mid twenties. My daughter admits that she is nervous to go to his place- she actually said that she thought he could be a killer. His ex wife also said that. I was talking to him a few weeks ago, and it seemed to me that the wicked looking unsheathed knife laying on the window sill beside him had a certain theatrical purpose.

Oh dear!

No I don't think your guy will change Marianne. Sorry.

Rgds

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#1106 - 09/12/02 10:19 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Cherie, thank you so for your kind words! Today is a bad day for me I can feel myself being pulled down into that endless pit of despair, and hopelessness. I am fighting tooth and nail to not be dragged down by the heavy shroud of depression. I think the longer you have been with one of these subhumans, in my case 25years, and 4 children, the oldest of which if you recall my story, he chased with a knife screaming he was going to cut his throat. Do you know what my son Damien said to this crackpot for him to pull his knife out? It was the words "You have never been a father to me anyway" Yes these truthful words brought this maniacs rage out. I guess the truth was too much to swallow.Even after all the years of unspeakable abuse towards me, when the P (Jeff} did that to our own son , I knew he was very capable of murder. Someone mentioned these guys fearlessness, I think that is wrong at least in his case. He is a big man 6"3 215lbs, but the only people he has been physical with has been me, at 5"5 110 lbs, and our oldest boy. So I would venture to say that they are spineless wimps who prey on the vulnerable. He has never gotten in an altercation with a man. After he spent one night in jail, he sent me a nasty letter saying I had ruined his life he was now part of the system. I do not know why but I did feel very guilty for being the one that made the call that put him in jail, for a big night. After we got together after this, he would have sex with me, but after if I went to hold his hand or kiss him , he wold pull away, and sneer, "You think I am going to hold your hand , or kiss you after you put me in jail" This just sent shock waves through me. The jail incident happend over a year ago, and he still says he will never forgive me or live with me because of that. Yet he comes by several times a week to spend the night and just play his sick games. I feel I am in limbo, continuing to see him just seems to prolong the agony. Why can' I let go of this bum. I mean I do not call or contact him, but he will not leave me alone. I always hold onto the dream that he will change, but my brain knows better. Please anything you might think that would help me get away from this monster, I feel I do not even want to get up in the morning anymore, but I refuse to let this loser do me in . Help! Love Mariann

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#1107 - 09/12/02 10:26 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mariann, I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

I do not think there is any hope your husband will change.

The situation seems to be that now he has more control than ever because he doles himself out to you in little tantalizing pieces, contolling how much you get of what you want. This technique does serve to whet your desire for what is being withheld.

You can wrest your rightful control back by asking yourself whether or not you really want what is being withheld. What value is it you, really?

I would ask you, and you decide whether or not you want to respond, to describe your feelings for this man. Really I am asking you to examine your feelings, and if you wish to share with us, you will get some feedback, some reflection. This may help you to sort out your feelings.

I hope this will help.

kris

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#1108 - 09/12/02 11:15 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Kris, as I had stated in my prior post the length of time 25 years, that I have been with Jeff makes it so much harder. He plasterd my nose onto the other side of my face two years into the marriage. Of course never taking the blame for anything he said I must of done it to myself with my elbow yea right. The hard thing Kris is his other side, we could sit and talk for hours ,and just enjoy being together, also we have a lot of physical chemistry. He is the only man I have been with since I have been 17, I have tried to just let it be sex and nothing else, but that is what always sucks me back in. I do not want to have sex with someone else at this point. XXXI He is like a robot in bed no passion or affection. I get the feeling that he does this to punish me, because what I really crave is the skin to skin contact and to feel I am loved, which he never says on purpose because he knows how much I want to hear it. Also the fact that he is my childrens father is another reason he is hard for me to let go. If he does not want to be a family why doesn't he just leave me alone. He has isolated me from all of my friends, and most of my family is fed up with my wishy washy ways with him for example always leting him back in my life. It should tell me something when my 6 year old daughter says to me mommy some day can we find a father who is good to us. The 8, 6, and 4 year old never say they miss him or want him back just the contrary. Not to mention my oldest boy feels betrayed by me when he sees I keep letting him come back into my life. So my fellings for him can range anywhere from wanting him physically, and missing him, to hating him and never wanting nothing to do with him again. It is when he puts on his nice act that makes me cave in. What is it I get from him well besides emotionless sex, someone to talk with , when he is decent and a man I have shared much history with I do not understand his hold over me. Here I am I was a professional horseback rider specializing in open jumping events which is seeing who can go over the highest jumps some over 6", at the fastest speed. I gave this vital part of my life up to because he made my life hell if I had to travel around the circuit of different shows. So Kris it seems that what I get from him is hardly worth the withering of my very spirit. Please I need to hear more from you guys to point out what kind of person I am letting control my life, I want to break free but still fell chained to him , this makes me very disappointed with myself. Thanks, Mariann


Edited by Dianne_E (09/12/02 12:26 PM)

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#1109 - 09/12/02 12:21 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Mariann,

Sorry you are having such a bad day and hard time sorting things out. I wonder, have you done any reading on the subject of psychopathy? Have you read Dr. Hare's book, Without Conscience? Reading and learning about psychopaths has been a huge help to me.

Cherie

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#1110 - 09/12/02 01:15 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mariann,

I understand...the other side. I was married to mine for 30 years, and I left exactly one year ago. I had those things you describe...children, history, we too could talk for hours and enjoy just being together, and chemistry...yes. It's so so hard to withdraw from something that is so much a part of you. And I also know the guilt you stuff down for not doing it, for continuing the relationship. One of the ways I think we longterm abuse victims do that is by not sharing with others how bad the bad stuff really is. We don't want to admit it. We don't really even want to know it ourselves. So you have taken a very big step by talking about this. I see it as a sign that you are moving past the denial that many of us got stuck for years, decades.

I hear in your words how much you desperately want to get him out of your life and out of your children's lives. I know how hard it is for a mother to speak of the pain her children are suffering over something the mother can do smething about. The fact that you speak of it shows a bravery, a boldness, a laying of the cards on the table, almost like pushing yourself through a door you don't want to go through. Overruling yourself.

I can tell you, from experience, when you get to this point, your fear of the loss and pain of going through that door is greater than the reality of what the loss and pain will be. You want him out of your life more than you want the small comforts of his companionship. I think you've already done alot of the grieving.

You're on your way out, Mariann, out of hell. It really is better on the other side of that door. I promise you.

kris

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#1111 - 10/15/02 11:39 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


heligan
(member)
10/05/02 11:55 AM

My story the short version

This is copied from Tim Fields website on bullying where I posted it, He sent me an email which contained details of this site so I doubt he will mind.

Female. Private sector.

I was bullied in a fish factory on a Scottish island. It's the kind of job that has a high turnover of staff in any case and is the perfect setting for a bully. No-one in these places really wants to make a career of it, and it attracts a lot of young easily-led people.

My bully was a sociopath, very charming and he had the rest of the other girls on my line, eating out of his hand. He had a tendency to go from table to table telling jokes and spreading gossip. A little here a little there, let everyone join the dots; think they had worked it out for themselves.

The girl I worker near had health problems, and he didn't like her, I stood up for her; that was my first mistake. I openly said he was being mean to her when she was ill.

Then I became vulnerable, my boyfriend (very short term boyfriend, but I was serious for the first time in a decade) died, and I was now in a position he could kick me. To start with he feigned support, accompanying me home after the funeral, and coming on to me the next morning!! I said no, and it didn't seem to have turned nasty.. you just can't tell with a sociopath.

He spread lies about me from the next day, and I got no support from my workmates, as in his version I had made sexual advances on the night of the funeral, which made me sound like a ...

I made excuses until I finally had to admit what was happening, but I was not myself at the time I was trying to cope with a grief no-one understood and the hostility seemed the easiest thing to sort out.

I begged him to stop, God it was pathetic.. I should have gone straight to the bosses, but it is nearly always too late by the time you figure out what is happening. You are well and truly discredited before you realise what is happening.

It was not just in work that I was targeted by his gang of eager recruits; they would shout at me on the street to keep away from this man, telling me he wasn't interested.

I tried to talk to a supervisor, but he told me (lets call him Jeff) was a nice guy, and I should talk to him outside work. The supervisor was a nice bloke and I really don't think he knew what Jeff was, what was really happening. I told him that I had tried, and it only seemed to make things worse; he twisted everything, the supervisor agreed to talk to him (off the record). In the end though after a day of pondering it I decided that the damage Jeff would perceive I had done to his ego, was unlikely to get him to stop.

So I went around to talk to him, and he was charm itself. Like a fool I believed him; I guess because I wanted to. What he took, to be more than a peck on the cheek of gratitude, took me down a road of... do I reject him again or just do IT and hope to God, he is not messing about!

I was not exactly against the idea of oblivion at the time, I drank myself into it most nights, it would be true to say grief had turned me into a moron. So, I thought what the hell, but it was a big mistake as I found I couldn't go through with it. So I had rejected him AGAIN, and although I tried to explain; by the next day the lies had started again. Once again I had thrown myself at him, and I could hardly deny I everything, as I had gone a fair way (down the road to hell) with the man.

I left the job in the end, but I made a right old stink before I did, sent him solicitors letters and told the bosses... But he is still there and I am in the process of trying not to lose my home.

I did get another job after I left, very fast, but my health was bad as the stress and most of the on-hold grief started to come out.. so I was a basket case (depression) in my new job...and finally lost that too.

It is probably worth people who have left a job due to bullying to stop awhile, get a Drs line and let the stress come out without affecting their next job. It was definitely a mistake for me, I thought I was strong enough to just move on, that is not really realistic.

Because you know, what people are, after you have been bullied, and not just the sociopath but the rest...like sheep they follow, like sheep, (not caring, sensitive, good people).

It is sad, and it is frightening, it explains Bosnia and the Holocaust; it seems to me that most people love to get stuck in, to have an enemy, they just love it...where is the empathy, where is the humanity???


kris
(member)
10/06/02 10:21 AM

Re: My story the short version [re: heligan]

heligan, I am so sorry about the death of your boyfriend, and this disgusting bullying episode you relate.

I have been witness to, and victim of, a number of similar incidents in my life. All of the ones I was victim of were perpetrated against me by my psychopathic husband. Most of those I witnessed in which others were the victims were probably also psychopath perpetrated.

I have never been able to get even a slight "piece" of understanding, on a gut level, how people can do this, be this way, what they get out of it. It's nauseating.

In my last 2 years with my husband, he turned our new community against me. I was well and truly ostracized, though I had done nothing the slightest bit wrong. He did it because he wanted to dump me, and marry a young girl on the staff there, and I was sick, and without money, and he couldn't very well throw me in the street without making it look right and noble, saving his own soul sort of thing. He didn't get the girl, then wanted me to stay with him after all. I tried to make it all right, at first, because I didn't see any choices for me. But it was pure hell, and part of that was the community continuing to treat me like a bad smell.

I asked Psychopath to explain to me (since I figured he would know) how it was that entire communities would gang up on the innocent victim, in a situation, and align themselves with the perpetrator of the crime. He was pleased to be of help. He explained that people are completely selfish, and are only concerned with their own power and popularity in the group. They will always align themselves with the winner, not the loser (the winner being the perp, the loser being the perp's victim).

This view of things totally sickens me. But I have seen it happen in life, again and again. And yes, look at Bosnia and the Holocaust. However. I do believe good is more powerful than evil. Whenever I have been a position of power, in a group, and this happens to a weaker member of the group, I have rallied the group to gather round the victim in support, and everyone has rallied. Unfortunately, the person who appeals to the group's higher nature has to be viewed as powerful for this to work. It also doesn't mean that the right thing will happen. But it means everything in the world to the victim that somebody cared.

How are you doing now, heligan?

kris


heligan
(member)
10/06/02 02:07 PM
Re: My story the short version [re: kris]

Thanks for your reply. Im much better now it has been almost five years since the whole thing started, you find a way to cope in the end.
The eczema (the health problems I mentioned) is still with me though, I am on incapacity benefit because although I can keep it under control, I have to live a very careful life to do that.

Its not just chemicals, stress is a bad thing, too. I recently thought about dating again and got a three week period of eczema.... so I guess that means Im allergic to men now..lol...

But I am starting to relent a bit in my views of the human race, which I suppose is a vital lie I need to tell myself, inorder to be able to have friends etc... I know there is good out there and I have to be somewhat open for that reason.

I do know though that I will never forget and the slightest idea that I am being manipulated sets off alarm bells, that is not something I ever want to lose.

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#1112 - 10/28/02 04:32 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is my first post..but I am looking for suggestions. My sister is married to a p. Two years ago August her took over her brain. In that time, he moved her 3000 miles from her family. He spent all of her retirement (she is 36), tens of thousands of dollars, he drove her to a suicide attempt after 8 months of marriage, he changed her first name because he did not like it, would not let her curl her hair, wear make-up and now they have joined the Mormon Church. She also started smoking cigarettes (good Mormon) and he had her on Anti-depressants. He has supposedly had MS, a light case of Emphysema, which is why they needed to move to Florida from California, and now proclaims to have Parkinson's (he is 35). He owes tens of thousands in Child support to a previous wife. He has been married three times. He controls my sister and now she is in contact with nobody except that she now takes my parent's calls every couple of weeks. She won't listen to anybody...and she lashes out if anyone says anything negative about her p. She thinks he has changed, but he hasn't. She has gone from the sweetest person in the world to a very evil and nasty person. I am very frightened for her. He fits the P's characteristics about 100% (Dr. Hare). They are so far in debt right now. He has had 10 jobs in 2 years, and it is always somebody elses fault. He is also taking advantage of the LDS church for jobs and money and favors. He takes advantage of everyone. She did not even contact her parents on their 50th wedding anniversary because "he" was not invited. Then we did not hear from her for 5 months. They have used the "F" word to my parents. She has always had the most wonderful relationship with Mom and Dad until he came along. She left her "p" shortly after the suicide attempt but he had her back, turning on everyone in no time. I am running out of patience with them. I know she is in a cult-like situation, but I am not sure what else I can do. We miss her terribly and worry about her. She has become "him" in a way. She has also had multiple jobs, four or five in the past 10 months. She said something about sexual discrimination in her job (which lasted 60 days). It is the "p" putting things in her head. She has no friends anymore, no money, her acting and signing career is probably over because of him. I am trying to be patient, but it is so difficult. Thanks for listening.

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#1113 - 10/28/02 10:39 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Robert,

You got that right, this is exactly like a one on one cult. Captive Hearts, Captive Minds is a great book that explains the dynamics of these relationships. As for deprogramming from one, that's pretty hard. She has to get herself out. You can literally pull them out of it, but likely she will go back.
Over the years, I have tried to help many girlfriends, with no success. Even explaining the power dynamics to them, it never helped.
The only advise I have is to be there for her, if and when she gets out. Keep in contact with her, and be very non -judgemental. Otherwise it will work against you. You can't control her behavior, only your own. You can choose to go on the rollercoaster ride with her, and drag yourself down with her, by worrying and stressing yourself out. Or you can let go and let god.

Betrayed

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#1114 - 10/29/02 07:01 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Robert, welcome to the forum. I am saddened to hear about your sister. I think Betrayed is giving you some good advice. It must be very difficult to sit on the side lines while her life is in shambles.

Di

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#1115 - 10/30/02 03:00 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks very much Betrayed. It sounds like great advice. I have been studying a lot about psychopaths and this guy is not physically dangerous, but is so destructive. I haven't spoken to my sister in a year, since she turned all everyone she loved. It is best not to challenge her or her "p" husband. An psychologist specializing in personality disorders told me, "She is not herself anymore, she will come running home and she will get better over time". That gives me such hope. I only hope our parents can see her come back some day.

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#1116 - 10/30/02 04:09 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Robert, I just want to express that my heart goes out to you. I am glad you found our forum, and I hope you will continue to come and read and learn and discuss your issues with your sister's sad circumstances, and seek support, as you may need.

kris

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#1117 - 12/05/02 10:01 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is my first post on this site, but not the first visit. I've been reading this forum since about September, and, i can say with others, that it saved my sanity.
I don't have time to say much now - but many thanks to all the people who clarified the craziness. I was "bitten" twice by a P. I know the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"....but with a P it's not that simple. And there was 18 years in between!! Eighteen years ago i had no idea what he was. Unfortunately, this past spring and summer I got to find out the real answer. I had thought dreams do come true when he called me up again late last winter. I should explain that we are (and always were) 1300 miles apart (thank God for that - the story might have been longer). Anyway, I'll have to post again. I had had no idea that these kinds of "people" are out there among us - and we're loving, living, sleeping with them. Well, I'll post more later. Thanks to all until then.

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#1118 - 12/05/02 01:21 PM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi P-PROOF, welcome to the forum. I will look forward to reading more of your story when you are ready.

Di

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#1119 - 12/07/02 12:38 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
debadoux

12/06/02 11:04 AM
Finally people who know what I have known

I have been looking for someone I can talk to about this mental illness who will believe me and not call me crazy!Plan to talk here everyday and seek advice and help through this forum! Deb


Dianne E.
12/06/02 11:51 AM

Re: Finally people who know what I have known

Hi debadoux, welcome to the forum. I will move this to "My Story" and when you are ready you can post.

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#1120 - 12/10/02 12:13 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
P-PROOF
(member)
12/10/02 10:05 AM

I'll start to post my story today. First I'd like to say that I know my story isn't as horrible as some of you have gone through - and I can thank God for that. And truly wish I could help any and all people out there somehow not to have to go through any of a P's perpetrations, and if they are now involved to GET OUT. I have been reading on this forum since Sept., learning and validating what I have experienced, however. I guess I need to give some, hopefully, concise background info. on myself. I tell myself I'm old enough to have known better, but alas that doesn't count for much with a P, and it also depends on you yourself and where you are (or not) in your life. I'm at the half century mark - and when I look back on my life so far - the relationships with the opposite sex are very much less than ideal. I was brought up with the typical 1950's mentality - women get married and ride off into the sunset, and maybe they work a little while as a secretary/nurse/teacher (traditional female roles) beforehand, before their REAL LIFE begins with a man.
So consequently, I hadn't developed my own life before looking. For years my one focus was to find Mr. Right.
The Mr. Rights turned out to be married (and lying about getting divorced), or unavailable otherwise (as in alcoholic). The P came along 18 years ago, just as I was learning for the first time about alcoholism and co-alcholics (me). That was the beginning of my real education in life and I was astounded to find out about that disease, and like with the P, learned all I could and began the journey of examining my life and self-discovery, and my contributions and why (low self esteem, etc.) into these dysfunctional relationships. Add clinical depression for years into the mix and the picture isn't pretty. Twenty years ago the breakthroughs in treating and recognizing and validating depression were unfortunately not out there yet. That part has since responded to treatment, but getting involved with "bad men" doesn't help.

Anyway, 18 yrs. ago, as I said, I had just learned that my boyfriend of five yrs. was an alcoholic and what that meant. I was told to run like hell from that. Well, I did - right into a P. The P happened to be here in my state from another state 1300 miles away. I was going to college part time (have since earned that degree - but took 15 yrs!). Naturally, I was depressed, lonely, and ready for something new to replace the alcoholic. This guy happened to be from the south, and since I had always loved the south and anything to do with it - I met him and immediately felt like I'd known him forever - like he had walked into my kitchen and been my friend for the last 20 years! I also knew he was only here for less than 2 weeks and I figured I'd just enjoy the diversion of meeting some new people (others had accompanied him). Well, he (obviously now) made me his "target". I've always been a shy person, not outgoing, and could never figure out why one of my girlfriends could sleep with a man she just met- I thought that was stupid and unthinkable - since I generally needed to get to know someone for a long, long time, and gradually develop a relationship to that point. Not so with the P!!!! He said all the right things, I was hurting and vulnerable anyway - and I hate to say it but I figured I'll never see him again - what the hell?!? (to be continued)..

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#1121 - 12/10/02 12:15 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
P-PROOF
(member)
12/10/02 12:04 PM

(continued from previous post....)
This P was so charming, southern, sweet, down-home - we could relate on so many things - rural life, farming, peace and quiet in the country, etc. - I felt so "at home", and as I said we ended up in bed in a flash one night after he "walked me home". Since it was 18 yrs. ago, I'm not sure when I found out he was married. As I said earlier, I was hurting from the end of an alcoholic relationship,and this guy was SO NICE TO ME. He was just so sweet, he ended up meeting my parents, it was just so wonderful having him around, when we weren't working. He ended up confiding that he was married, but it was on the "skids", that he'd got married way too young, had two kids, and wished he'd met me before. He advised that marriage was alright when you were too old to do anything else!!! And to wait for when the "right" one came along. There were other co-workers who were with him also - and after meeting a couple of his hard-drinking, crude buddies - well they just made him seem more of a saint and he pointed that out too - esp. the fact that he didn't drink, or smoke - just lived a "clean" life - with the wrong woman. After he left, I was glad we'd met, but thought that was the end of it. He took my mind off the former boyfriend. I later was rather apalled at myself for having "jumped into bed" so quickly, but what was done was done - and hopefully I'd made a southern contact - because I did, and still do, love the south.

I thought that was it. About a week later he called and said he didn't know what was happening, but he couldn't get me off his mind - he wanted to know what I'd done to him.
I have to admit I felt the same way - he made all the northern men I'd known pale in comparison. They didn't know how to treat a lady right. He opened car doors, was ready and willing to help anybody anytime, and so polite. Compare that to the fast-paced, impersonal rat-race life of congested northern sub/urban areas, where if you are friendly to someone - they think you're going to assault them. So here he was - calling me. It wasn't long before he was calling me EVERY DAY AND TELLING ME HE LOVED ME. The next thing I knew we were making plans for me to fly down there - he just had to see me. So that's what I did. I was mesmerized and "in love" with this person - I'd found Mr. Right and right where I wanted to live. His marriage was all but over, and it then looked like he was being transferred and told me his wife would not go with him. The only thing that stood in his way were his kids - he loved them and didn't want to lose them, but he wanted me so bad. I ended up flying down there, he put me up in a motel (because he had to work and his wife and he weren't split up yet), and he ended up flying up here about a month later. I wrote him letter upon letter upon letter (to a P.O. Box somewhere). And he called EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE JUST TO SAY HE LOVED ME.

The next thing I knew he was transferred and ready to make the split with the wife. I started making plans to move and he described the area we'd be going to. But things didn't move all that fast - and he didn't want to lose the kids but he was sure wife wouldn't move with him. I flew down there again a couple months later and this time I remember that I'd come home crying. This time I stayed with him in his new area, in a hotel/apt. and that's as far as I got. He took me nowhere and quite frankly, when I came home and people asked me what I'd done or seen - I could only say the hotel ceiling. But I was in love, and it was going to work out, I'd wait forever. By this time he still didn't know if his wife would follow him to the new area, but he was also talking about staying until the kids were out of school, and then we'd be together. He knew if she found out about me, she'd keep the kids from him. So that was only a couple years and I'd wait forever if need be. AND HE CALLED EVERY DAY TO SAY HE LOVED ME, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE TIMES. Then one day, about a year later, a day went by, another day, then more days - without a phone call, then a couple weeks. I panicked. Thought he'd been killed, hurt, whatever. He'd never gone this long without calling me. I wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote. No answer. In desperation I called his home number and he would pick up and say promptly "you have the wrong number". Pretty soon - he just hung up altogether. I'd plead "Please don't hang up - just tell me what's wrong. That's all I want to know". He had stopped all contact and wouldn't even give the decency of an explanation, a "go to heck", whatever - this from a person who had called me as I said - EVERY DAY FOR ALMOST A YEAR! Finally, the letters started coming back - unopened - return to sender - refused. He wouldn't even read them - but he was obviously getting them! I was sick - it was unexplainable. At that point all I wanted was, not even an explanation, but to be told to "drop dead" - anything - just to HEAR SOMETHING - SOME ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT WE REALLY HAD KNOWN EACH OTHER - SOME ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT I HAD EXISTED TO HIM.

In the next to the last desperate act I wrote a scathing letter to his father - hoping for reply. Nothing. Finally, I resorted to calling his father's home and telling him who I was and asking if the guy was alive or dead?!? Yes, he was very much alive, but I should realize he was such a "family man" and wouldn't leave them.

Then FINALLY - I did get a call from him. He asked me why I called his wife? I yelled that I didn't call his wife - NOT EVER - and furthermore, if I really wanted to be with him after his kids were out - I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot like that - I would not, did not, would never call his wife or do anything like that - that he should know me better than that!!! He pretty much just said "Oh" and that was that. (Remorselessness!!!) I hung up the phone and years went by. I had at least thought the guy would remain a friend. That first time was devastating - and I spent many, many months recovering from that hurt - since I had built our relationship into something that would actually be on-going, that he and I would get married, that it was so powerful the love we had.

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#1122 - 12/10/02 01:06 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


(cont. once again) In telling "My Story" I forgot (senior moments?!) some crucial P details. In my first go-around with him 18 yrs. ago - he had confided some now-typical P stories. I didn't mean to say he said he was living a "clean life" with the wrong woman - which in so many words he did say - but he had confided different affairs he had over the years - because he was married to the wrong woman. (And he seemed proud of all these other women - wow, what a stud he was), but of course, I was the RIGHT WOMAN, AT LAST!! He even told me about a child he had with another woman. How he came home one day, and saw both the mistress' and wife's car in the driveway - and he couldn't back out. So he just went in and there they were - crying. His main comment about that was "I guess my wife couldn't take a joke" (which he was often saying about me - wondering if his wife was ready for another joke?!). But he was a good father, and provided for the baby, and told me about the gifts he gave her, etc. etc. He didn't shirk his responsibility!! I guess it was shortly after that he had a vasectomy (practically a carte blanche in the affair dept., huh?). But of course, he told me how he had been scheduled for that prior to the "other woman" getting pregnant - how he was in the doctor's office that day - and the doctor got called out on an emergency - and well, wasn't long after that he got the "other woman" pregnant - and it wouldn't have happened if the doctor hadn't been called away!!!! (The fault always lies with someone else!!).
This P did hold a full time job for many years and was somewhat of a workaholic (according to him) - and I do believe he was recognized and applauded in his field. I often asked him how he had time for other women and he said it was a because of the job - out on a management tract all day - alone - and sometimes you'd stumble on a woman recreating - and he'd help her out!! He didn't have to go into an office all day - but then when he did go into the main office - he was doing the secretaries there too!!
(How many red flags does a person need?! what was I thinking?! - That I was his true love, that's what - otherwise why would a person call you every day and tell you they loved you?!?) But I digress.....
So the ending or I should say "nonending" of that affair in time - was devastating and took me a long time to get over - I swore I'd never look at another man - and I basically threw myself into my studies and really did avoid males except as friends (but then you find out that platonic male-female friendships are few and far between!). I'm still learning that!
So I heard nothing from the P, until eight years later - just one day there he is on the phone. Out of the blue!
Says he's working in the state next door - would love to come see me. And have I gotten married yet, do I have a boyfriend? I said "No and sort of". I said hesitantly, "yeah, come visit - BUT ONLY AS A FRIEND!". By this time - I'd got over the pain - but had not forgotten. So he shows up on my doorstep. I open the door - he's his charming self - flies into my arms, takes my hand and starts leading me to the bedroom. I said "Whoa! - I'm seeing someone else". He attempts to change my mind. Oh just once for old time sake. I asked also if he was still married and how ___ was? Yes, he was still married, but gee it was so good to see me. He tries again - and again I said "no way". He simply wanted to have sex - that was it. He thought I'd give in - but I was so proud of myself - and I didn't. He just left. He had driven probably 4 hours and he just up and left. No talking, nothing - just in the door and "let's go to bed". I had chalked him up to just wanting sex and that was all he ever wanted. And I said "No".
I didn't hear from him again until about another eight years (what is this an eight-year cycle?) - and that brings us to early 2002.
Meanwhile, in between - I'd finished my degree, had sworn off men pretty much until that was finished in the late 1990's, and then started dating again. I don't really go out "looking" and pretty much rely on someone else making a first move somewhere somehow (which at this pt. are getting few and far between). First guy was a good friend of some friends - but I soon found out he was an alcoholic and of course, got out of that pretty quick, but not without a few crazy, hurtful times. I was proud of myself for recognizing it - I have learned something!!! (to be continued)

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#1123 - 12/10/02 11:06 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi P-Proof. Welcome to the forum. Thank you for sharing, I get so much out of each and every post of peoples experiences with a P. All of our experiences are different , but so much the same. I don't know about everyone else, but I am waiting with bated breath for the continuence of your story. But please only when you are ready. Take your time. You've written so much today, you must be exhausted. You know, after reading these stories, and my own experiences and many, too many stories from friends over the years, you sit and wonder are any men capable of loving commited intimate relationships. Friendships they seem to do fine at. But the other kind, well??? Feeling jaded today.

Betrayed


Edited by betrayed (12/10/02 11:14 PM)

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#1124 - 12/11/02 06:26 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


P-proof
Same as Betrayed, welcome to the forum. I have waited to comment on posts because of waiting for the next one. You must feel relieved to have encounter this forum. I feel that among all the information I found on P, this the most helpful.

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#1125 - 12/11/02 07:49 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betrayed and Hopefull...thank you for your responses to my story. And I should say validation too - just by acknowledging me.
I do feel exhausted - and wonder why?! But after re-living the stuff through writing - well, it's exhausting. I'm almost finished with my documentation of him this past summer and it's over 30 single spaced pages so far!! I just don't want to forget a single detail - so I don't make the mistake of "forgetting" again. I call myself P-Proof - hoping that I truly am - a double meaning there - proof that he was a P, and Proof as in "bullet proof" now.
Even after reading the few books out there on P's, this site is still the best place by far to come for help. I wish there were support groups in person for us - but I don't know of any. Yes, I hear and speak "jaded", when it comes to men. There are some good ones I guess, somewhere, but most of the ones I run into who are not P's are, at best, spoiled, self-centered, and go through the world feeling they're entitled to women waiting on them and doing for them. Well, I will continue with the next (and final) chapter of my P soon. Meanwhile - thank you for reading and writing. Be good to yourselves!!!

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#1126 - 12/11/02 08:18 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>Even after reading the few books out there on P's, this site is still the best place by far to come for help. I wish there were support groups in person for us - but I don't know of any.<<

Hi P-proof,
I like your name and the double meaning in it. I too, feel this forum has been the best source of P. info for me. Besides the postings, I also learn of new books to read and other websites to check out. I go to a counselor who has been very supportive, helpful and understanding. Which I feel is also a part of my long healing process. I learn so much here though, and I take what I learn to my counseling sessions. I found this forum just in time. My insurance is changing so I wont have as much coverage, so I have to cut back on my appointments, but I know I can come here in between appts to stay focused. I also wish there were support groups in person. I know there are none where I live. At this point, I am not sure I would go, though. I still have a fear of others in my community ridiculing what I believe about this person I call a P. My picture is in lots of my advertising with my job, so I feel a need to be pretty anonymous right now, and that is what makes this forum so great. Welcome to the forum, P-proof. betterway

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#1127 - 12/12/02 09:16 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betterway...Thanks for reading.
After I thought about it - I agree - the anonymity is crucial. Not only because the average person looks at you like you have two heads when you use the word psychopath, but to come out in public (even a supposedly anonymous group) risks incurring danger to yourself from the P. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person within miles who has encountered one of these - but I don't think so - most people just don't find this site or are just content to accept that the person in their life is just a jerk. P's are another species altogether. Even the alcoholics I've known - are suffering from alcoholism - they WERE NOT ever just plain EVIL. I had just found this site when I first went to my counselor - and I took in a stack of information from this site for her to read - she didn't. She was very empathetic towards me, however - and focused more on just getting on with life - which ultimately you have to do - but having had this experience with a P is so different - I think it's important to fully learn about what happened and how they operate for your own sanity to be able to move on. If my counselor wasn't familiar with this site - she should have been, I think, to be able to help more people in the future. My girlfriend gave me a book to read right after his disappearance (before I found out what he was ) called "Forgiving the Unforgiveable". What struck me in that book (which was mostly about having been cheated on and left) was that your choices are taken away from you, power is taken away from you - power over your own life and to be able to make informed decisions about it. (Enough happens in life over which we don't have any control - too bad there are people who glibly play with us like the P) That applied to a P - because they are just one string of lies, and what you believe is not real - and you're living your life as though what you believe about them and from them is real. And it's not.
Well, I hope you continue to heal and get better, even though your counselor visits may be fewer. I know this site has helped me more than anything! Take care of yourself!

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#1128 - 12/12/02 01:04 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


(the story continues...) I left off where I'd met an alcoholic and soon recognized that and got out. The next one I met (and this is interesting - because I ended up calling him a P (before I really knew what that meant in all its grisly entirety). Before I go on with the P story I'll relate this man who happened before the P came back. I was sitting at work, minding my own business, when this man called. He was from the area, I knew who he was, but didn't really "know" him, and he had bee hives at my uncle's place. I knew he was married and for a long time.
Other than that - nothing. He called up out of the blue one day - and asked if I had a boyfriend - because he knew a couple guys who wanted to meet a nice woman and he thought of me. (He'd met me at some dinners I had gone to with my uncle). I thought that was really odd, but said I was willing to meet a nice man. He asked if I could meet him for lunch and he'd tell me about them. Well, I did but got an uncomfortable feeling about the whole thing. We went to a local park, and he told me that there might be someone else who was interested in dating me. I kind of laughed cynically - and he seemed surprised. Then he asked "Do you know who?". I said "Well, I'm not still wet behind the ears - of course - you, I suppose". Then he unfolded the story of how he and his wife were heading for divorce, he hadn't been happy for a long time, and he had to make a move before he got any older. I said "Sure, get a divorce, and call me". [As I write this - I'm struck by the fact that I really think he was (is) a P too. Had never thought of it that way - but I know I ended up being flattered that he wanted to date me - because the times I had met him he seemed so charming and nice and kind and interesting!] Anyway, for a year he pursued me, stopped by, and I continued to tell him "Let me know when you get the divorce". I was proud of myself. But then my one remaining single girlfriend was getting married, and feeling lonely, left out and where is my life going - I started thinking "Well, he must really be interested to keep up a friendship for a year or more". And a couple times he was telling me that his wife was moving out, that they hadn't slept together in years, and that it couldn't go on, and he was going to tell her about me. At that time there was nothing to tell - except perhaps he was interested in me, if he got divorced. So....I ended up breaking down and took a chance. He was going right home to tell her, and what kind of wedding would I want, and would I like to live in that house and it will certainly be different for me to live with someone (since I've lived alone a long time) - making plans!! Yes, I faltered, but only briefly. The next thing I knew she had leukemia and was going to die and he couldn't leave her now, and his grown kids would think he was horrible and he was so torn and unhappy, but at least we could have each other, since I had no one anyway, he was better than nothing, according to him! WRONG!
It was funny he was so charming beforehand, but once he thought he had me where he wanted me - he wasn't. I was helping him one day on my day off, haul in some firewood and stuff from his farm - and I know my strength is negligible, but I tried. And then I ran home to pack some lunch for him - hot soup, cocoa, sandwich, etc. and schlep it back to the farm. (Trying to be nice and pleasing). Well, the next day he asked if I wanted to ride with him on an errand, and we'd go out to lunch at a place he knew had good food. So - on the way there - he had to stop by the bank and he was telling me all about his money and stuff, his different bank accounts, etc. We ate lunch, the bill came and I thought well, the least I could do is leave the tip, I started to say that, when he looked at the $20 bill and said "Well, do you have $10 - we'll split it". That kind of split my head wide open - I don't think I'd ever felt so small. Anyway, a few things like that happened and I just said No More. After that he became abusive in my own home (verbally and emotionally) - and then he started "stalking" me - I'd come home and he'd drive in behind me, and wonder why I wouldn't let him in the house. He worked a shift which let out at 11 pm, and he'd drive in and knock on my door. It got to the point where I couldn't just get in bed to read (like I love to do) for fear he'd be driving in and see the lights. A couple times, when I thought I was rid of him, I caught him outside my bedroom window as I was reading. The first time - I heard the windchime (and it wasn't windy) - and looked out but saw nothing. The next night - again the windchime - I jumped up and ran to do the door - and there he was, skalking beneath the cedar tree - I asked what the hell he was doing - he said he didn't want to scare me by knocking on the door!!! When I asked him if it was him the night before - he said No. He also had made a key to my apartment for himself (he had offered [before he got too weird] to feed my cat while I went on vacation - and had it made unknown to me! I discovered that by accident. So...this was the guy before the P I originally started posting about here, and I added him because quite frankly, as I said, now that I started writing about him - he was definitely P material. And oh yes, I had started calling him "the psycho" - not knowing what that meant - until this P came along - the one I'll continue with now - the one I'd met 18 yrs. before, who last called eight yrs. ago - and the story picks up in early 2002. I'll get on with it in the next post. I don't mean to keep anyone in suspense - but maybe the extra experiences I threw in will set off red flags for anyone who reads them. After that guy, I really gave up - got back to being happy again, doing my things, staying away from men, living without turmoil, meeting some nice people in the historical field (my passion-hobby), loving my family, friends and cat, trying some new things (ceramics), reading, hiking. Then I turned the half-century mark, and that wasn't so bad in itself - it was a good year in many ways. But there were some issues that started to crop up (symptoms of menopause, the 911 horror, friends/support group retiring at work and left alone with the new wave of kids, (at a job I never liked anyway, but some of the people who would leave made it worthwhile), and wondering what I'd do with the rest of my life, at work and beyond - i was starting to take stock again of where I was - not unhappily but....thinking nonetheless.... and I will continue....

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#1129 - 12/12/02 03:11 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>She was very empathetic towards me, however - and focused more on just getting on with life - which ultimately you have to do - but having had this experience with a P is so different - I think it's important to fully learn about what happened and how they operate for your own sanity to be able to move on. If my counselor wasn't familiar with this site - she should have been, I think, to be able to help more people in the future.<<

My counselor did the same thing, just wanted me to let go. We had a talk at my appointment about everything I am learning and how it is helping me. I told him if he has any other patients he is dealing with that may be involved with a P. or NPD that he should tell them about the books I have read. He asked me for the name of the books. Isn't that great! I think he sees how this forum and the books are helping me. I didn't talk to the P. today and I haven't even went into PTSD, and I haven't hardly thought about him and what he is doing (which I am sure is just more games). It feels so good to have some days in my life where my insides are not so stirred up. I got a long way to go though. I am prone to slips, but the time between them are getting further apart. betterway

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#1130 - 12/12/02 04:51 PM Re: My Story
neverthesame Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 53
Hi Betterway, P-Proof and everyone,

Welcome to the forum.

I want to comment too about the importance of anonymity.

When I first came here to this forum it was after a therapist had told me that the man I had left was a dangerous psychopath/sociopath. She told me I needed to listen and take her seriously. It was shortly after that I found this forum and read here for 6 months before I posted. I was scared he'd find me here. I was scared someone would recognize my posts. I was frightened and paranoid and looking over my shoulder constantly. I struggled to continue to parent effectively and work too. It was a huge effort.

I am not frightened anymore. I refuse to live in fear. I am cautious but no longer worry all the time.

Another reason for anonymity important to me is that I did not share this experience with many others in my life. For a long time I would not talk about it at all except to his ex wife and my therapist. I was ashamed, frightened, and I knew that most people would not have a clue what a psychopath was. My own family was furious with me for being so foolish as to be taken in by this man. They wanted me to leave it all behind and move on. They did not understand what had been done to me. Interestingly enough, the same things had been done to them by my psychopathic father for many years. We all experienced terrrible fear, horror, and PTSD. My elderly mother is still effected. I think that my experience was almost too much for them to bear. They loved me and meant well, but I needed help and support from other sources. Much of that came from those here on this board.

I am still very careful about talking about my experiences. To me, this is very private stuff. I do not want some friends and family, work associates, neighbors and others to know about these deeply personal and painful issues. This forum is a safe place to be me, anonymously, except when I chose to be more disclosive with a select few. I am so grateful that I can say the truth here, and feel understood.

I am.....Neverthesame

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#1131 - 12/12/02 11:09 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>My counselor did the same thing, just wanted me to let go. We had a talk at my appointment about everything I am learning and how it is helping me. I told him if he has any other patients he is dealing with that may be involved with a P. or NPD that he should tell them about the books I have read. He asked me for the name of the books. Isn't that great<<<<<

It seems to me as if a number of these therapists are treating the obsession, as just that, an obsession. Rather than the PTSD, which was caused by the trauma of psychological and emotional abuse. I find it sad that the therapists are so ignorant of PTSD and abuse. If the first they hear of it is through a book their patient gives them, that's pretty scary.

There are trauma therapists who are totally familiar with PTSD And abuse. Heck, even womens center peer support are familiar with the dynamics.

As I have decussed before, it may take a grassroots movement from the victims or targets of abusers, just as the Vietnam vets started their own group sessions for PTSD, before therapists start to integrate this into their education.

Betrayed.

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#1132 - 12/13/02 12:24 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>I don't mean to keep anyone in suspense - but maybe the extra experiences I threw in will set off red flags for anyone who reads them.<<<

Hi P-Proof, I really appreciate it that you show all the experiences with the P's. I wish more would talk about specific incidences. It really helps to confirm and validate my own experiences.

>>>We ate lunch, the bill came and I thought well, the least I could do is leave the tip, I started to say that, when he looked at the $20 bill and said "Well, do you have $10 - we'll split it". That kind of split my head wide open - I don't think I'd ever felt so small<<<<

What a jerk! The P pulled this one on me, and in talking with other friends who have been in abusive relationships, they have had the same number pulled on them. It was similar to yours but with a twist. We went out to lunch to discuss the moving into the new store. I had offered to pay before we went as I knew he was short on cash. When I went to pay the bill at the table, I pulled out a $20. The bill came to $8 something. He said to me, if you give me the change, I'll pay you back $20 tomorrow. HE WAS OFFERING TO PAY FOR THE LUNCH!!! WOW!!!He makes himself out to be hero paying for the lunch. I never got the $20 back. I don't even remember why I didn't ask for it. I wasn't embarrassed to ask for it, I just forgot about it. I ended up paying for the lunch, plus he stole $11 something off me. JERKS!!!

>>>>He also had made a key to my apartment for himself (he had offered [before he got too weird] to feed my cat while I went on vacation - and had it made unknown to me! I discovered that by accident.<<<

These guys seem to all have the same M.O. The keys!!! If you have read my posts, you will know the number I had done on me with the keys.I never let mine out of my sight now, I never put them down. And its amazing how they manage with a thousand excuses how to get into our homes when we aren't there. When we started looking around for a store to move into, he started complaining about how he had no washing facilities in his bus. He told me he would stand in the doorway of the bus on the stairs and pour a cup of water over his head for a shower. Over and over, he told me this story. At no time did I question it, never. When you are in a trance state, you don't question. Your critical thinking is gone. It horrifies me of the things I didn't question. Anyways, once we move into the new store, he continued with the story of the shower in the stairwell of the bus. I offered him once, then twice, to let him use my shower at home. He declined. He told me the story one more time. I said, "I am not going to offer again. I am not going to beg you. You are embarrassing me". ( They love to have you beg ). He showed up 2 days later at my home to have a shower. I was thrilled. Its like having a tug of war with someone, and you manage to pull them over the line and win. The relief you feel from the constant tugging, when you stop. That dynamic went on many times with him. And its set up and manipulated to appear as if you suggested it, all on your own. After that it became a regular occurence. of him coming to our house. Dropping in at all hours, for his shower. Got me to leave my door unlocked, so he could get in, when I wasn't there. I would even tell my kid, don't have a shower tonight, he's coming over for his. Thank god she never listened to me, just went ahead and had it anyway. My granddaughters needs and mine, became less important than the P's. Once he moved himself in with the showers, then he worked on using my washer and dryer. He had fixed my gate, my chimney, my car, etc. always offering to do things for me. They like to you to become dependent on them, plus have a feeling of obligation towards them.

One morning, he showed up for his shower. He walked in and his one pant leg was saturated in blood from the thigh to the knee. He told me he had had to break up a dog fight between his dog and a friends dog, and that he had got bit. He did have a tiny wound on his hand, but there was no way it could have caused all that blood. And his dog looked fine. It was around this same time that he quizzed me on whether I read our local paper , (published 3 times a week). He knew I read the paper. He'd seen me reading the numerous times. At the time, I just thought, what an odd question. When I first reported the stalking by him to the police in April, the officers asked me if this was in regards to the complaint against him in January. I had no idea what the officer was talking about. I said what kind of complaint. They refused to tell me. The incident with the blood had happened in January, asking about me reading the paper had happened in January. What the hell had happened that night in January????

Betrayed.



Edited by betrayed (12/13/02 12:41 AM)

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#1133 - 12/14/02 12:35 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>It seems to me as if a number of these therapists are treating the obsession, as just that, an obsession. Rather than the PTSD, which was caused by the trauma of psychological and emotional abuse. I find it sad that the therapists are so ignorant of PTSD and abuse. If the first they hear of it is through a book their patient gives them, that's pretty scary.<<

Whats amazing is that my therapists has dealt w/PTSD, but he seemed to be only treating the obsession. Maybe he has dealt with other kinds of PTSD like victims of war or violent physical injury. But I would think that PTSD is PTSD. He has told me I have PTSD. I felt like I had to make him understand how traumatic this emotional and psychological experience has been for me. I gave him the "Bully Insight" book to read. Last week I discussed with him what I have been reading in the "Stalking the Soul" book. It was all the scenarios in that book that hit home for me. We can only hope that therapists will remember what we have told them has helped, and that they pass it on to future victims of this type of abuse.

Don't get me wrong, my therapists has been alot of help. He has been very supportive. I think I would have been hospitalized if it hadn't been for him. He helped me to understand the evil I was dealing with for so long. However, the real true understanding came when I found this forum and started reading the books that were suggested.

betterway

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#1134 - 12/14/02 01:11 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Betterway...
Re: to therapists' insistence on just getting on....I have to wonder how few therapists really know about P's and the aftermath for us. I've had my share of endings with "normal" jerks - and though I hurt and had the grieving to go through - none were ever like this. You don't just forget it like it was no big deal - it was/is - they are criminals, and we've been touched by evil. I was told again today - just forget about it by a family member - and quickly explained that what helps me most and comforts me most at this stage - is to learn and learn and learn and now, share. Knowledge is power - the power to keep myself strong, my self esteem higher, and the power to get some enjoyment out of life - knowing that we met the "devil" and rose above, and it wasn't our fault. With the overriding need to keep reading, and learning - I was reminded of the time I went into a pet shop, and (I apologize to all the arachnids in the world - they are just trying to live their lives as we are - I love animals - there are no psychopaths, as far as I'm concerned, with any other species except humans) - but...I have a fear and replusion to spiders - don't know why? - but I was in this pet shop - and there was a huge tarantula in a cage at eye level in one part of the store - and I found myself not being able to take my eyes off of it - even though I didn't want to see it. Maybe that's analogous to needing to learn and learn about the P disease - we dare not take our eyes off them, or their kind. I had kept looking at the tarantula to try and figure out what freaked me out so much about this entity so much smaller than me. Does this make any sense? The big difference is that the tarantula certainly felt no ill will towards me - unlike the P. Don't mean to compare the two creatures - it insults the tarantula!!
Anyway, may your times in between keep getting longer and further apart - to where the P is a speck on the horizon, fading fast! Take care.



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#1135 - 12/14/02 01:20 PM Re: My Story [Re: neverthesame]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Neverthesame...I'm a little concerned that someone might recognize my posts too - like the P in another state - since it wouldn't surprise me if he knew about this, but who knows? I just found out through a contact in his area - that he may be in my area again - and that frightens me. Wondering what he'd be doing here....all I keep thinking is for revenge - since I did, at one point, contact the person he was last living with to try and warn her, but I tried to be anonymous about it. I know I shouldn't have bothered - but something compels you to do it. Maybe that's still part of the hold they have on you - even though you know it's sick.

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#1136 - 12/14/02 02:05 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Betrayed...<<<>>>
Yes!!!! I am still learning - but I have a strong feeling to want to try and help others somehow out there - I feel like I've had this experience for a couple reasons - 1) to learn to live and enjoy the rest of my life in the best ways possible and 2) to help others with this. But how? I have a girlfriend right now who I am trying to get to read this site - because she has one in her life right now (from what I know) - but she's oblivious. She's up and down, mostly down, miserable, and the stuff she tells me he does - well, they are "red flags" to me now - but I can't control when, or if, she ever has an awakening. I just pray she doesn't get physically hurt along with the rest of it, before she finds out.
<<< i ended up paying for the lunch, plus he stole $11 something off me>>>
You reminded me of other times with this P - I had packed a nice lunch one day on a hike (cheese, crackers, the works) and we stopped for supper that night on the road - and I ended up paying my share there! Another time we stopped for stuff at a convenience store, and he conveniently left his wallet in the truck! Another time I fronted the money for an adult ed day trip - and when I told him about the price - he pulled out a couple dollars and said he'd have to owe me - never happened - I had to bring it up again - at which time he made me feel like I was a cheapskate!!
<<>> - Yes! He would OFFER to do something that glaringly (or not) needed doing, I never asked - but when he offered, well, at first I said Okay. After a few times of him coming back to me at a later time and verbally abusing me, making me feel like a terrible person - saying "Of all the things I do for you!!! and you can't, won't,..whatever" -I finally got to the point where if he asked - I'd say "NO! I'll do it myself".
He was always showing up unannounced, I must have told him 300x to call first - don't just come knock on my door - I value my privacy - but he never got that one - and then would wonder why I was somewhat unreceptive!!! Then he'd say "well you never answer your phone!" Dah - maybe there's a reason there - do you need a picture?!
<<<>>> Struck a nerve with me!!! (Many of these things I'm writing about happened after I'd broken it off, but trying to be a nice person and remain a friend!?!) - He showed up one night after a T-storm, towel in hand, asking if he could take a shower, because they had no power at his house. Well, I thought that was weird, to say the least, but being the nice person I unfortunately try to be - I said "go ahead". Thinking all the while that taking a shower isn't a crucial thing to do - where you have to show up at somebody's house with a towel!
.....Before I got rid of him completely - no friendship, no nothing - he would come into my house when I wasn't there - Once when I hadn't heard from him in awhile, and was feeling better and starting to get my nerves under control - I had gone to an event one day and actually enjoyed myself for the first time in a long while - came home - and there on my coffee table was a letter from him - HE DID NOT HAVE TO COME IN MY HOUSE TO PUT IT THERE! - but he did....and it was to the effect that I was to make up my mind about he and I and give him an answer once and for all!! (Again - he needed a picture)
Another time, I came home and felt some weird vibes - like someone had been in my house - and "something" led me to my closet - where I found he had been there and taken a gift back he'd given me!!!

Scary - what did happen on that January night? They just keep returning and returning somehow to haunt us - and more and more pieces of the puzzle(s) keep falling into place. You put it so well "When you are in a trance state, you don't question. ...It horrifies me of the things I didn't question". Me too, and the things that pop up again and again. Once you're out of the brainwashed/captive stage - you wonder who that person was in your body that let those things happen?!? I'm reminded of the conversation I just had with a police friend, who I just recently told some of the story to - and when I said something like I wonder how I could be so stupid?....he quickly and firmly said "Don't ever think that - you're a smart lady - and they are so good - no one involved with a psychopath has a chance - they are predators". I didn't know it but he teaches a course for women - on domestic, verbal, emotional abuse and rape/assault prevention and education, which I'll be finding out more about - maybe I can offer, at the least, a list of some books he might not have for his classes.
Take care!

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#1137 - 12/14/02 02:24 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just thought of something important in the conversation with the police friend - he reminded me that this area I grew up in and the time I grew up in - where we overridingly trusted almost everyone - has a lot to do with getting into these experiences. It's not the same world. I know I still am guilty of trusting too much. But will never be that gullible again. It will take a miracle for me to really trust anyone again - but I'm not going to let that stop me from being as happy as I can be - even if alone. Better alone anyday - and I'm not really alone - I've got myself. We've all, ultimately, got only ourselves, and we have to be good to us. There are and will be some good people in my life and I'll do what I can to cherish them and let them in to a degree I'M COMFORTABLE with. Take care, everyone.

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#1138 - 12/14/02 09:48 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


all I keep thinking is for revenge - since I did, at one point, contact the person he was last living with to try and warn her, but I tried to be anonymous about it. I know I shouldn't have bothered - but something compels you to do it. Maybe that's still part of the hold they have on you - even though you know it's sick.

P-Proof,
I have been feeling that way, compelled to warm others but I have been holding back. I have been resisting to contact some that indirectly warned me. I can deny I think about it really often but I believe it is wiser to remain calm and channel your energy to some more constructive healing. My friend psychologists tell me repetively anything that has do with the P is bound to trouble, that is, actions motivated by P affects, any related persons, any professional adventures, anything thus I tell myself everytime that I feel the urge to act, " I should respect myself more and turn the corner." I don 't know if you have read my posts, but 6 months ago I did cut the ties with the P, not so many weeks ago he contacted again. After few days, I felt visceral displeasures, deep tension like feeling which made me understand that I felt that most of the time I was in a kind of relationship with P. I understood the unhealthy behind that feeling and I have to run away from that, I know that my sanity is delicate ( I feel P and his world is a deep dark hole) and if I like indeed to live I have to respect myself and to do so I have to repress those temptations of acting on P's evilish territory or against his flow. Doing anything in the field of the P or doing anything direct or indirect to the P is a slow suicide. At first when I cut the relationship I thought I had to talk to someone event to the P, or to people around the P, just needed to say something, but the opportunities of subtle and not dangerous comments have arisen. That gave me more satisfaction than have done something directly.

I like your comments on the tarantula... it is such a great analogy. I have the impression that it is like in an office some people may warn you " better be friend with that person, because if an enemy you won t survive." so one may have the impression better tame the beast before it eats you.
My friend psychologists also tell me " The biggest stupidity of a man is to repeat the same thing expecting a different answer." I guess Ps make forget about that one, but let's remind us that one.
thank you for sharing your stories, it is so helpful to to read all that.

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#1139 - 12/16/02 08:17 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>I came home and felt some weird vibes - like someone had been in my house - and "something" led me to my closet - where I found he had been there and taken a gift back he'd given me!!! <<<<,

Four months into the stalking:
My grandaughter and I got home and I noticed on my bathroom floor a towel that had bleach stains all over it. It didn't really register, why is it lying on the floor, why are bleach stains all over it, parts of it looked like a knifeblade with bleach on it, had been wiped off on it? I walked into my bedroom, something was amiss with the curtain, above my bed. I pulled it back, and written on the screen window (which is inside the glass), was written in white " Missed Me". I realized it had been written with the bleach. I wasn't shocked, I wasn't horrified, I wasn't scared, I wasn't angry. When I told a friend about it later that night, I realized I should have been feeling all those emotions, but I wasn't. After being violated so continuously, having my boundaries disrespected, had so much chaos happening around me, I was shut off. I think that our brains can only take so much boundary violation, and then our emotions shut down. The P can do anything they want to, and we just don't respond.

Betrayed.


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#1140 - 12/16/02 09:58 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>>>A couple times, when I thought I was rid of him, I caught him outside my bedroom window as I was reading. The first time - I heard the windchime (and it wasn't windy) - and looked out but saw nothing. The next night - again the windchime - I jumped up and ran to do the door - and there he was, skalking beneath the cedar tree - I asked what the hell he was doing - he said he didn't want to scare me by knocking on the door!!! <<<<<

No, he wanted to scare you by peeking in the window, and lurking in the yard.!!!

Some pre-clues that I had a stalker on my hands. They like to peek and they like to hide.

One morning he was over at my house, and I was in the bathroom brushing my hair, and putting on make up, with the door open. I thought he had gone out to the car to get something, but as I was looking in the mirror, I caught him looking at me. He was in the livingroom, where there was a mirror, which reflects into the bathroom mirror. I had no sense that he was even back in the house, and was shocked. He quickly put his head down, and pretended to be doing something.
At our store, I had asked him to put a window in his part of the store, to see when customers came in, for when I wasn't there. Instead of a large opening, so the customers would be able to see that he was there and available, he put in a small peep hole, just large enough for his eyes.

Many times, while in our store, I would be sitting, talking to a customer or a friend. I was always quite surprised to find him lurking close by, pretending to be fixing something. I had not even noticed him come out from his area. He should have been in his own area, refinishing something, doing his own work. A few times I almost tripped over him when I got up for something. He was laid out, on the floor, always with some pretext of repairing something or other. Usually you can sense someone around you, I never could with him. I never even clued in that he was spying on me.

Some mornings, if he was there for a shower at my house, I would leave a few minutes before him, for the store. He always managed to catch up with me, suddenly appearing in my rear view mirror. During the stalking, many times, I would look in my rear view mirror and there he was, suddenly out of nowhere. One place along the road to where I live, I realize he had been hiding behind some bushes, waiting for me to drive by. God knows how long he waited there.

Betrayed.

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#1141 - 12/16/02 01:18 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


(my story cont.)..... (i'll write without capitalizing)
i got side-tracked by realizing that the last one before the P. was decidedly a P. too, or at least had all the ear-marks of one!....
so back to early this year - around Feb. 2002 - i was feeling pretty good - NO MEN, doing my history stuff, etc. - but somewhat thinking too much about my future - about friends at work leaving, i'd had some minor surgery in january (ailments seem to creep up as age does), feeling like i needed time off from work to regroup - but nonetheless - i wasn't feeling too bad - just a little case of winter blahs, i guess. minding my own business - at work one afternoon - and there he was on the other end of the phone - after not hearing from him for 8 yrs. (when he had stopped by for sex and i declined!). there was that charming, southern drawl.... he called up to see how i was, if i was married, why wasn't i married (i answered "no i'm not that crazy yet") whatever....told me he was retired, traveling some - working some here and there - said he might pass through my state one of these days - can he visit? i said "yeah, i guess, AS A FRIEND". he told me that he had been pretty down a little earlier, he was just hanging around, and would love to come visit. i told him "now you know how i felt for many times of my life" (with the depression). he told me some other fantastic things which had happened after he retired, which i doubt - like real bad luck stories. and then we hung up, and i figured i'd never hear from him again, and put it out of my mind. but he called again. then he wanted my e-mail address. then the e-mails started coming. how he remembered the good times with me, how he had no one, only acquaintenances from work and no real friends -that he'd been a workaholic all those years and now he was paying for it. (btw - i forgot - he told me he was finally divorced from the wife). said he had no one - and wanted a life - just to find some good person to live out the rest of his life with. he gave me his e-mail address too. i would answer him when i felt like it - in-between his little trips (which he said were to visit men friends in other states - YEAH RIGHT!!!!!). he kept saying he wanted to visit. so it went on for awhile with e-mails and phone calls (mainly i just asked him what the hell he'd been doing the past yrs. and i wasn't the little girl he'd known back then anymore (spoke too soon didn't i? - that must have been a real challenge to him). he unfolded his story to me - first that he'd initiated the divorce a couple yrs. after our "love affair" of yrs.ago. then i wanted to know why in hell he'd never contacted me, if we were so in love? he said he entered his wild time for awhile. he told me about this woman, that woman, here, there, everywhere (what was i thinking??? did i need a sledge hammer over my head?!?) (my problem ends up being too forgiving most times, and i'm a curious person, and accept people for what they are - and i had essentially forgotten most of the hurt from him, and had only some fond memories) but.....was being cautious, i thought. besides that - i'd grown and changed a lot - and learned a lot - and had enough hurt times in between - and was more independent, and happier with myself and felt i was more savvy. i figured he must have grown up too - which is what he actually said - he was just ready to find that good woman and settle down, his wild times were in the past. but as i said - he had told me about this woman and that one, etc. - and one of them he was still good friends with, and once he even said "see, i am capable of having a relationship". so the weeks go by - we're e-mailing and he's phoning (RED FLAG - I DID NOT HAVE ANY TELEPHONE # FOR HIM EVER!). it wasn't long before i felt like i had a long time ago in love, walking on air- and was starting to think maybe the time has come - i mean, after all, you read and see these people who re-unite after many years with old loves. maybe it was perfect timing. so the communication started heating up. and he was saying all the right things. isn't it time i find a good man and settle down, wouldn't i like to raise (instead of schlepping into a job i don't like), etc etc. he also told me he'd not been with a woman for 2 yrs., he was living in a buddy's place in the woods, there was no phone (that's why he couldn't give me a phone #!!!), he just enjoyed the peace and quiet around him, he was a loner like me, we were so much alike and on and on. somewhere in there - after withholding the info. for a time - he confided that he had re-married and it was a disaster - and since then he'd sworn off women. i won't go into the details - but it was the usual "she was a nut, she ran up thousands of dollars on his credit card, she told him some unbelievable sexual things she'd been involved with".
he kept throwing out the summertime to come visit.

somewhere in mid-April i developed a physical problem, which continued to worsen, just as things were heating up with him and i. (was this an omen i ignored?) anyway, it brought me down to my knees, literally, at times. i tried diff. treatments and nothing was working. so it's during this time that he's pushing the issue of a visit. well, i figured i certainly would be better by summer - and that was the plan. but at times i wondered why couldn't i just fly there for a short visit? (i didn't know why at the time - he was of course, living with someone else). so he kept pushing the visit here and then asking how long - 2 wks., a month? forever? i started getting nervous, dealing with the problem was enough as it was, but i still, by this time, wanted to get together with him. he was thinking the summer sometime. and i had plenty of time to get well. then he starts pushing for just packing up all his stuff and moving in with me, to see if it works, and if not, he'll just move on. (well, scary thought - i've lived alone all my life in a very small abode - big enough for just me and sometimes not even big enough for me!!!, plus i have grown to like my privacy, and coming and going to my own wishes).
but then i kept telling myself - well, nothing happens if you don't take chances, i can be smart about it - what have i got to lose?, nothing ventured, nothing gained. i was ready to start a new life. and if it didn't work out - i still had my life here, my friends, my job, etc. - and that brings up an interesting extra - he tried to talk me into retiring, and he and i could move to my parents' property, and we could travel and raise etc. by this time he was actually throwing out the "married" word too, telling me he had every intention of marrying me, not right away, but after we got used to each other again - and telling me that communication was so important and that he'd be so good to me.
(well, i can pat myself on the back for that one - i didn't quit my job!!)
i feel as though i'm giving too many details here - i hope not.
the next thing i know there's a glitch in the plan - he'll have to come up sooner than expected, either that or much, much later (and by this time i was anxious to see him). so, i said come ahead. i had also said time and time and time again - don't be fooling with me - if you're not serious - do not come near me. his answer was that we were too old to play games like that.
i know these belong elsewhere - but the glaring red flags before he got here were 1) i had no way to contact him, no phone, except e-mail. once he had called and suddenly had to just hang up! - i got a real sick feeling on that one - and did the *69 thing, but there was no phone # that could be given (he uses a calling card). he quickly called back with some bogus explanation - which i bought!
2) no phone where he was living - that's why he couldn't give me a #
3) family members tried to reason with me - wondering why he was moving so fast, why the rush, and why was he moving in with me?!~ why was i letting this happen. why not go slower, why don't i fly there for a visit, or why doesn't he fly here for a visit at first? i told them not to rain on my parade.
well, i'll have to return soon ...

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#1142 - 12/16/02 06:32 PM Re: My Story
neverthesame Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 53
Hi P-Proof and Betrayed,

Your posts bring back memories. Two years ago, Christmas, I was out of town with my family. I came home the next day to my house broken into. I was terrified. My children were with me of course. I was calm and composed for them. Inside I was horrified and terrified. Of course I called the police. The officer was very nice and supportive, I did not want the policeman to go; I was so scared. I think he sensed that from me; he stayed a long time. It took some time to get over that incident. I have no proof it was my Psychopath. I live in a neighborhood which is safe, people generally do not even lock their doors. To this day, I do not know, but I do know that my PTSD was worse for some time after that.

I think I would be capable of shooting an intruder. I am NOT a violent person. I do not own guns of weapons. I am just tired of abuse.

Neverthesame

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#1143 - 12/16/02 07:22 PM Re: My Story [Re: neverthesame]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Your stories are quite crazy, my P's were crazy but never was I stocked but when I read your stories I keep on thinking of a friend of mine. She had a lover for years, known for his weird relationship. She always felt something was wrong with the person but could really stop the relationship. Two years after she really cut him off, he is been coming back, with all kind of really terrible stories, she almost lost her life but what is interesting is her intuition. She always feel went he is probably around. She even dream of the man and the next day she will run into him. Or she starts sweating and then the man is there. That is why I think that the analogy that P-Proof was talking about, of the Tarantula is quite fantastic, because it seems that you all felt the hungry beast around, the one that you fear the most, as if your soul give you the power of intuition for defense. If I remember well, last month there was an article in Psychology Today about intuition... They say that when you had a bad experience you doubt more your gut feeling, you are unbalanced. And you have to relearn to trust yourself. Please listen to yourself.

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#1144 - 12/16/02 09:43 PM Re: My Story [Re: neverthesame]
Anonymous
Unregistered



>>>>I think I would be capable of shooting an intruder. I am NOT a violent person. I do not own guns of weapons. I am just tired of abuse<<<<

Hi (((Neverthesame))) It seems like they push and they push and they push, almost to provoke you into something. After the first couple of months of the stalking, I remember saying to myself, " I can't take anymore, I can't take this. This has got to stop, but I don't know how to stop it." People offered to stop him for me. They said if this was happening to their family, they wouldn't hesitate to do something. At this point the police still would not do anything. The people said the police don't ever do anything in this town. People have to take it in their own hands. I thought they, by even suggesting it, were as crazy as the P. I still, at this time, assumed the police would help. One of my friends said this is enough, I'm going to make the police listen. We went together to the womens center, to maybe get an advocate to come with us too. No one would come so we went alone. The police finally took a statement from me at that time. Never even talked to my friend, about what she had seen. Would not let her in the room while I gave a statement. I was a basket case.

As for defending myself, if I had had a gun in my home to protect us, theres no telling what I would have shot. When you are in that state, you could end up shooting the dog or worse, by accident.

I totally understand where you are coming from Neverthesame. The abuse that P's dish out, is so insideous. They manage to skirt their way around the law. They leave their little calling cards with no way to prove it was them. The laws are different where I come from. I have had people say to me, you know its illegal to carry pepper spray. Well its illegal to stalk someone too, but knowing the police around here, I'll probably get arrested for carrying pepper spray, god help me if I actually used it.

Betrayed.

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#1145 - 12/16/02 11:42 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>>Two years after she really cut him off, he is been coming back, with all kind of really terrible stories, she almost lost her life but what is interesting is her intuition. She always feel went he is probably around. She even dream of the man and the next day she will run into him. Or she starts sweating and then the man is there. That is why I think that the analogy that P-Proof was talking about, of the Tarantula is quite fantastic, because it seems that you all felt the hungry beast around, the one that you fear the most, as if your soul give you the power of intuition for defense. <<<<<


Intuition:

When we had the store together, I had the weirdest dreams. My subconcious was trying to tell me about him. One was I had a dream about him cutting my hair ( hair is power, as in Samson and Delilah in the bible ), I was really upset at him in the dream for cutting my hair.


A little background for the next dream. The P was covered in tattoos and also did tattooing part time. I can't stand tattoos, and would never, ever date someone with them.

In this dream, I had, I was laying on a bed pretending to be sleeping, naked on my stomach. He was hiding in the corner of the room. He kept sneaking out of the corner and was tattooing love words all over each side of my lower back hip area, above them he was tattooing the most beautiful exotic birds I had ever seen. He thought I was sleeping the whole time, and that I was not aware he was doing the tattoos.

I told him the next morning about the dream,( but I left out the part with the love words, told him about the words, but said that I didn't know what they said.) I told him that he thought I was sleeping in the dream, but I was only pretending to sleep. I also told him that I was surprised, it did not hurt me in the dream to get tattooed. He asked me if I would like him to tattoo me. I said "No, I only liked the tattoos in the dream, not in real life.

Part of me knew he was putting me into trance, part of me knew he was stabbing me in the back.Part of me knew I had made myself naked and vulnerable to him. Part of me knew his "words of love" were meant to hurt in real life. The tattoo in the dream represented him, I didn't like him in real life only, in the dream.

If you have read "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin Debecker, Debecker talks about how powerful our subconcious is. He talks about how our subconcious picks up danger signals much faster than our concious brains. He talks about a guy in an office, where the Unibomber had sent a package. This guy, upon first spotting the package, made a joke about it being from the Unibomber and he was going back to his office before it exploded. Well, the package did explode, and the guy who made the joke survived. He had spotted subconciously that something was not quite right about the package. Debecker tells how we will sometimes make jokes about danger when it has not hit our concious brains.

This is what I did when we had the store. Made "jokes". Some of the "jokes" I made were, telling his friend, now that the P knows English so well, he's dangerous. I "jokingly" said when he had caught my finger in a fold up chair, "You're trying to murder me". First time he ever borrowed money off of me, I "jokingly" told him he was like a gigilo. I once "jokingly" made a comment about him being a male stripper. Every male stripper I have ever met is gay. My words come back to haunt me. I pay attention now to my dreams and the words I say.


Betrayed.

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#1146 - 12/17/02 12:05 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


(((P Proof))) I just cried for you as I read your story. Its just so heartbreaking the lies he told you. The way he seduced you. How he got you to fall in love with him again. You didn't deserve this. None of us did. This is a hug for the whole Forum, to each and everyone of us that has been stung by a P. (((((((((((((Forum))))))))))))))

Betrayed.


Edited by betrayed (12/17/02 12:10 AM)

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#1147 - 12/17/02 12:38 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>>he also told me he'd not been with a woman for 2 yrs<<<<<

What's up with that statement? I have heard of other P's making that similar statement. The P told me, once we had moved into our store, that he hadn't had sex in 4 years. I found out later, that he had also told the owner of the first store we were at, the same story. Well, since the P made the comment to me, that he wasn't a faggot, he didn't like young boys, and he wasn't after my daughter ( plus friends and I strongly suspect his dog and various women), exactly WHAT WAS IT that he hadn't had sex with, in 4 years????

Betrayed.


Edited by betrayed (12/17/02 12:44 AM)

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#1148 - 12/17/02 06:55 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betrayed,
What are you trying to imply? That they did have sex, but did not want to talk about it or they didn't have sex?
It is weird in both ways, anyway.

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#1149 - 12/17/02 07:22 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Hopefull....I'm not sure I read your posts - i've read and re-read a lot - but looking back i couldn't find yours. are you in "my story"? or did you post elsewhere?

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#1150 - 12/17/02 07:23 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Hopefull. I was just being sarcastic. P's offer up this information, without anyone asking them. P's claim not to have had any sex for a certain time period, trying to imply that they are chaste and pure? or that they are not into casual sex?,or that they are saving it for someone important? or they only have sex with someone they have feelings for? or that they are not promiscuous? when the exact opposite is true.

Betrayed.


Edited by betrayed (12/17/02 08:19 AM)

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#1151 - 12/17/02 07:31 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>She had a lover for years, known for his weird relationship. She always felt something was wrong with the person but could really stop the relationship. Two years after she really cut him off, he is been coming back, with all kind of really terrible stories, she almost lost her life <<<<<<

Hopefull, Is you friend okay now? Did she get rid off the guy?

Betrayed.

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#1152 - 12/17/02 08:14 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


dear betrayed....and all....thank you for your hugs and understanding. it is amazing how some little "jokes" we've said flippantly, sometimes out of nowhere - are right on. it's happened to me too. while the P was here living with me - i started "joking" about all his other women (i'll have to finish my story soon). well, that joke was on me for sure. i just thought he's so in love with me - he can look but he'd never touch - he'd never betray what he wants with me! and the sex thing is hysterical - as i said mine told me that he had just sworn off women, as i had men (but i really did) - like, i said before - i'm a very curious person and i ask lots of questions - and i did with him - i'd ask him - i mean, knowing what i'd known about him and men in general - i wondered how he could last that long. he'd just say he worked 18 hr. days for weeks at his last part time job. and he'd been so burnt by the last woman - that he just put it out of his mind! i thought how much he'd matured!! when he was phoning before he got here - most of his conversations increasingly revolved around sex too - which was a "red flag" i didn't know at the time - i often wondered why he'd tell me this or that - esp. some things with the "last" woman - the one he had married and got burnt by so much. he'd say inappropriate things - but i chalked it up to having been so deprived for 2 yrs. and boy, he was really desiring and saving himself for me!!

other intuitions i had before he got here:
i had saved all the letters (since he had given them back to me many yrs. ago) that i had written him - and i got them out of storage and started reading everything over, including the hurting ones at the end - which raised some hackles on my neck. in the stuff i saved was an article about him and his job - a glowing report on his work - and it said something to the effect "we welcome ____ to the new area. This is a guy when you meet you just can't help but like. He's filled with enthusiasm and his charisma just makes everyone like him immediately". ..... when i read that the hackles raised on my neck again. the word CHARISMA. but i brushed it aside and thought what a prize i was getting! another day i was reading some excerpt from a book about southerners i'd saved from many yrs. ago too - it was about how the good ole charming southern man treats his women - puts them on a pedestal, but at the same time - treats them as their very own objects - however, they have no problem with a good buddy having the same woman - kind of like a brotherhood of sorts - they can be jealous if a complete stranger looks at their woman, but if their best buddy does - well, it's a kind of sharing, and bonding experience for them. and it went on to say how earthy and sexy and charming these southern boys were - like their manhood was always foremost in their minds, something so primal...sensuous. [let me add here that my personal view is that people are people everywhere - i'm not buying any generalization about southerners, or northerners, or whatever - just want to make that clear]....but i was reading this excerpt, and it jogged my memories of his "womanizing" stories from many yrs. ago - and i laid there on the chair in the yard and a chill came over me and i got depressed. and i was thinking that he is really planning to come up here and what am i doing! that night he called and he immediately asked me "what's wrong? - i can tell in your voice something's wrong - c'mon tell me". i told him nothing was wrong. he said "c'mon, i know you better than you know yourself!". i still didn't tell him - just that i'd read something that disturbed me. and he just melted all my fears away. with another talk we'd had i told him my family was worried about what i was doing and weren't for this sudden move - and he wanted their telephone # to talk to them! that didn't happen as it turned out - but if it had - he'd have charmed them too (as he did when he got here - he disspelled all their fears once they met him!!!)

.....so essentially one day i thought i had about 1 mo. before he got here - and the next day the plans were changed and urgent - he had to get up here now or not for 2 or 3 months (his dog was pregnant, and his buddy couldn't keep her (that was the change in the plans - he'd have to stay where he was until the puppies were sold, which would make it much longer!). now, not only is a person coming to live with me in a tiny place where i've always lived alone - but 2 dogs also (however in the kennels - of which i had to impose on a friend to borrow a kennel). the equation changed overnight. so...he's got me so fired up by this time - and can't really wait to get this show on the road and start our lives - that i just said "come ahead". as i said, nothing ventured, nothing gained. and come ahead he did - drove almost nonstop for about 2 1/2 days. (Wow, i must really be something, huh? - he must really love me!)
(have to go now - will continue)

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#1153 - 12/17/02 08:31 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have posted pieces of my story a little everywhere mostly I guessed through the general discussion folder.I am always scared to post my entire story since it is really recognizable.

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#1154 - 12/17/02 08:38 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


dear hopefull...i'll look through. i'm concerned that i'm telling too much - too many details. if the P reads it he'd certainly know, and one or two people he knows.

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#1155 - 12/17/02 08:39 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betrayed,
It is interesting because it must be a little of a that. The first P I have met was surely promiscuous. the second one was somehow always sounded as if he was criticizing others that were promiscuous, but I am sure there are a lot of things around that. I am sure he was as well but not by high libido but mostly because he had to do it to be where he is in his power world.I am so sure because he doesn't feel anything he doesn't really need someone unless he sexual aroused. There is all that weird feelings about his sexuality. I would say that most of the people thinks he is gay, even the gay men things he is gay. he tell different stories about previous marriages. nothing seems to be clear. to conclude, something about relationship and sex will pop up no matter what that would trigger questioning.

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#1156 - 12/17/02 09:12 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


You shouldn't worry, first, in all my research on Ps, I never came across this website until 3 -4 weeks ago. my story really differs from most of the women i know and that at many different layers. and one of the ps i am talking about is an highly educated person that may know about his problem and that spend a considerable amount of time on internet researching. that is why i prefer not to say too much but you all have similar stories in a way even mine seem similar if i don't get in details. i wouldn't worry if i were you.

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#1157 - 12/17/02 11:44 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't know. Probably she is but she is loosing it as well. She is visiting her family in another country so for the moment she is no in danger. But it is very scary. Her stories relate to some I have read on this site. It is funny, something I question my gut feeling, I was never physically hurt my that p#2, just emotionnally, but I do feel there is something so wrong with all his stories, with all that tension that i felt that i wonder what is behind all that. Don't want to find out , but i wondering. I have bad feelings about all that.

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#1158 - 12/17/02 09:12 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>flag" i didn't know at the time - i often wondered why he'd tell me this or that - esp. some things with the "last" woman - the one he had married and got burnt by so much. he'd say inappropriate things - but i chalked it up to having been so deprived for 2 yrs. and boy, he was really desiring and saving himself for me!! <<<<<

When you chalked it up to him being so deprived, I can understand that. In my experience, usually the only people that talk a lot about sex, are the ones that aren't getting any. LOL I have had to re-think that one, however. Many abusive types always bring sex up I've noticed. Its none of my business, what anyone has done previously in the bedroom. Its very inappropriate, its very dis-respectful. Objectifying sex, instead of a lovely caring, intimate act. I wouldn't ever dream of bringing up my sex life with a previous partner to a potential new one. All it would do is cause harm and jealous feelings, which I guess that is exactly what a P is aiming for.


>>>>.....so essentially one day i thought i had about 1 mo. before he got here - and the next day the plans were changed and urgent - he had to get up here now or not for 2 or 3 months<<<<<<

He set you up good here, carrot on the stick technique. Luring you with the bait, till he knows you're interested, then saying he was going to take it away, unless you bite instantly. Man, they are good! Until you recognize the technique, and then it just looks pathetic!


>>>>>i just thought he's so in love with me - he can look but he'd never touch - he'd never betray what he wants with me!<<<<<

Don't ever buy that one. That guys can look but not touch. Automatically assuming that all men are ruled by their penis. That one has been pushed upon women for generations. The only guys I know that look are ones trying to get their partner jealous. Control technique. When guys check me out, when they are with or without their partner, I feel violated by them as well as seeing that they are abusing their partner. Any guy that wants to get to know me, talks to me as a person, doesn't just look at the outside package. Otherwise, they are disrespecting me.

Betrayed.

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#1159 - 12/17/02 09:37 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>My friend psychologists tell me repetively anything that has do with the P is bound to trouble, that is, actions motivated by P affects, any related persons, any professional adventures, anything thus I tell myself everytime that I feel the urge to act, " I should respect myself more and turn the corner."<<

Hopeful, I just want to tell you that what you said in this post saved me from making a big mistake. It use to be that I would call the P., when I needed someone to cover for me on business deals. I needed someone to help me recently, so I didn't loose an out of town client. I read what you wrote and it stopped me. I found other ways to make things work, that day.

>> I understood the unhealthy behind that feeling and I have to run away from that, I know that my sanity is delicate (I feel P and his world is a deep dark hole) and if I like indeed to live I have to respect myself and to do so I have to repress those temptations of acting on P's evilish territory or against his flow.<<

Ditto, hopeful, I have cut off almost all business ties and friendship ties (if you would call it that)now for about 3 months with the P. It has been a struggle, but I'm gonna make it. If I act against the P's flow, he seems to get a kick out of it. It is pleasurable for him. I think it is his way of reasurring himself that he still has some control over me.

On the NPD website it talks about getting them out of our system, not just physically, but out of our brain. What a task. The P. put so much garbage in me, that I am trying to sort my life out and learn to live again. Like you said hopeful, it is all about self respect.

On rare occassions, when I do speak to the P., I see that all his actions, words, body language, etc., absolutely all of it is part of his scenarios he builds up around himself. I am able now, most of the time that is, to see right through his words, and tell myself, he is just trying to get to me. Last time I talked to him on the phone, after the conversation I just smiled, and thought of this forum. He once told me he knew how to get at me, and that he did. I am begginning to believe that the P. is very aware of his games, and plans them out, carefully chooses his targets.

One time I wanted to warn his current "main target" about him. I actually like this girl at the office. She is alot like how I use to be. He caught her and I talking and laughing one day and ever since then he has really concentrated on making her "his" office whore. I know that really sounds awful. He gets these girl (all of them are office personell) to do things for him, things beyond their regular job duties. And he makes them really want to do things for him. That is part of the spell. He does everything I have read about on here. He listens and works so hard on making a very deep emotional connection. He also does the slow long grin and gets within the targets personal space as part of his capturing the target phase. (I as so shocked when I read someone elses post on here, talking about that grin). What an eye opener for me. He use to do that to me. He takes the so called friendships beyond friends, that is on a verbal level, no sex (at least I don't think he sleeps with any of them), sexual inuendos, teasing, flirting. Gives the target wonderful attention. Knows just the right words to say. Basicly he makes you feel so special, and in reality it is all an illusion. I had seen how he can just blow people off. I thought I was different, because I had put and end to all that BS crap he does. I told him we can work together (we were business partners) and he didn't need to flirt with me. And he did quit doing that with me. I genuinely liked him, as a friend. We worked so good together for awhile, no flirting, no BS, just had fun working. I thought since I wasn't one of his play girls, that he wouldn't have a reason to just toss me aside. I had been building up in my mind what our business partnership was really about (somone else had posted about that build up also). Only to find that none of it was true.

When he started exploiting other woman in the office. I just couldn't stand to see him, treating woman the same way he had treated me. I was so blind, and now they are so blind. He flat out told me he was using them. Told me he wasn't using me, that our friendship was real and that he didn't do any of that crap with me. Imagine that. I wanted to believe him so badly.

He use to tell me that he was protecting me from the other men in the office that they only wanted to pimp me (I'm talking about "whore" in a business since). I now wonder who was suppose to be protecting me from him. He persues his targets, as far as he can, without crossing the line, or so he says. He teases and says he won't cross the line unless they want to. The sad thing is most of these women are married and getting caught up in his game of deciet and lies, and they all just think he is so wonderful. I guess I am the fortunate one to now know.

I have probably already posted some of these things. But it does me so good to write them again, makes it so real to me. Can't live in my delusion anymore.

Thanks everybody,
betterway

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#1160 - 12/17/02 09:43 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Hopefull. What I use to just see, was the tip of the iceberg, and knew to stay away from certain people. I would sit back and recognize that my instincts were good. Now that I can see below the surface of these types, its pretty ugly underneath.The secret lives they live. UGH!! One giant clue was always that their story didn't completely make sense, and I felt confused, trying to make sense of it. My favorite saying use to be and still is, "If it doesn't make sense, somebody's lying." I think that's how the P initially got around me. his stories never made sense, but I attributed it to him speaking in a language that he was just learning and was not that familiar with. I am still appalled that he managed to get in under my radar. Once they get under the radar, they are almost homefree. As soon as they have "earned your trust", you tend not to question someones trustworthiness. Everything becomes a confusing blur after that.

Betrayed.


Edited by betrayed (12/17/02 09:51 PM)

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#1161 - 12/17/02 09:47 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>> set you up good here, carrot on the stick technique. Luring you with the bait, till he knows you're interested, then saying he was going to take it away, unless you bite instantly. Man, they are good! Until you recognize the technique, and then it just looks pathetic!<<

Oh, so so pathetic, now. The P built up this wonderful friendship I thought we had. And when I started having problems with how he chose to exploit others right in front of me, he started taking away little by little, what we had, and it hurt so bad, and I fought it all the way. Only to see him be so evil and loving it all the way. He told me I should accept him for who he was and what he was, and he knew I knew what he really was by this time. When I refused he tried and almost succeeded in destroying me. betterway

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#1162 - 12/17/02 10:28 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>> I am begginning to believe that the P. is very aware of his games, and plans them out, carefully chooses his targets.<<<<

I think it is uncomprehensible to normal people how much energy and time that P's spend plotting and planning their every move and manipulating everyone in their vicinity. Their every move is scripted, is part of the game. It must be exhausting for them to be constantly playing a giant chess game, using people as pawns. Using one to effect so many others. They manage to make it so confusing, you can't see the forest for the trees. Until you figure out you are playing a game with them, and then you don't play. You can't win in their games, they have been playing them their whole lives. The ONLY way to win, is don't play.

Betrayed.

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#1163 - 12/17/02 10:37 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>He also does the slow long grin and gets within the targets personal space as part of his capturing the target phase.<<<<

Is this the one you are talking about? That long slow grin that is used whenever they "gotcha". It's so filled with spite and malice and hatred. I get the shivers remembering it.

Betrayed.

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#1164 - 12/18/02 07:37 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


betrayed,
The grin I am talking about is the grin he uses during the initial seduction. I found the post it was in, Cheri wrote on 8/4/02 in P. Charaxterstics: 1. superficial Charm, "And then there is the "slow gaze" thing where he would look at the woman suggestsively and that stupid fake grin". Cheri describes how her P. acted in the office. She describes my P. exactly. That slow gaze and fake grin are so discusting now, almost makes me sick to think about it.

I also know the grin you are talking about, betrayed. In the destroy phase, the P. would give me an evil grin, when he makes a point, or he would just grin in general when he was out in the office making comments or acting like a P. acts, to get at me. And then he's got the evil quiet laugh, I would here in the office, and I would wonder, what the heck is he doing now. I did learn to tune out alot of the crap, or maybe I just became numb to alot of it, like some of you have talked about.

betterway

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#1165 - 12/18/02 01:12 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


continued.....
i'd like to get this saga done before Christmas - i can fill in details later. so the P. drives to my place in record time. i figured we'd talk and re-acquaint for awhile - but he just hopped right into bed. (i know it takes two - and i could have said no - but i didn't , yet felt really weird about it all - later he said he didn't mean for it to begin like that, but....
so in he moves - even if it had been a normal person (and a normal person wouldn't have just moved in like that, they'd have taken an apt. somewhere, and then gradually would have built (or not) a friendship/relationship) anyway, even if he'd been normal, a pretty much complete stranger moving in with a person who's always lived alone - was CULTURE SHOCK!(Even under normal circumstances - it's hard to do)
but i was willing to try my best to have the "love of my life" and make it work, and figured we could always move elsewhere and just make do until then. once he moved in, my privacy was annihilated. my routines were no more. my life as i'd known it was turned upside down, to say the least. NOW I HAD SOMEONE THERE ALL THE TIME - IN A VERY SMALL PLACE. (and i had allowed it). besides that i have trouble actually sleeping with another person.
a couple days after he got here - i went with him to take his stuff he'd brought in a u-haul to a storage unit. i remember looking at what he'd brought and thinking it was a bunch of dusty, old, worn-out clothes and things. (i recall some other posts where people said they collect junk - he was no exception). and his truck was filthy. his excuse was he didn't have time to clean it up before he got here, etc. and he didn't have time to get some major work done on it. interesting - he had a dusty Bible under the seat - said he never went anywhere without it!
He infiltrated every aspect of my life all at once. i didn't visit my family without him, he came to work and made himself known to everyone, my friends met him. but he was SO NICE - HE'D JUST DO ANYTHING FOR ME - COOK, CLEAN, FIX THINGS. and he made sure he told everyone within hearing distance how much he was doing for me - and how good he was to me - and he only existed to make me happy. he put on the shows, that's for sure. he was just so smooth around everybody. he used my p.o. box (and picked up my mail all the time). meanwhile i'm still dealing with a physically painful problem that isn't going away. that put a crimp into it all, for sure. mostly it put a crimp in his bedroom plans - he didn't really give a crap how i felt. he'd be "sympathetic" and do all he could - but one day he just blurted out "ya know - a less tolerant man would have been out of here by now". i didn't say anything at the time - i just thought "gee, he's great". only later i realized what he'd really said.
he was making me feel like i was a pain in the ___. and so i'd try and do better.
during about the first week we'd talk - and basically he was mirroring every little like or dislike i'd say i had.
then he'd get these movies - he was always suggesting good movies - they were movies with "feel-good themes", with people who did the right things, with stories where right triumphed over evil, tear-jerking movies with uplifting morals - "Pay It Forward", "The Green Mile", and some goofy love stories. Then he'd say "Boy, i can really pick 'em, can't i?" and i'd be so impressed. so the first week went by with talking, movies, etc. he once told my family at that time that we were spending quality time together!!
and he told them his sole job in life was to make their daughter happy. i mean, how could it get any better than this?!
at the time he came my computer was down. i had taken it to get fixed before he got here - and they didn't fix the problem, whatever it was. so i just let it slide - i didn't really need it. but he was very insistent on getting it fixed. (BIG, FLASHING, RED FLAG). so he schlepped it back and forth a couple more times, hooked it
up, and got it working, (i of course, paid for it - so far we hadn't discussed splitting living expenses either, and he (surprise, surprise) never brought it up. said he knew a little about them, and wanted to write to his daughter when she got her e-mail up and running. i thought - well he doesn't have a job here, and he's alone here all day while i'm at work - and it's something for him to do - he even asked me about computer courses around the area. a couple times he wrote to my e-mail address at work - and then i'd answer from work.
so once the computer was up - he was on it regularly. another thing with him was he couldn't sleep - he either had to take pills or stay up watching TV or whatever.
well, the first MAJOR BIG ONE happened one night early on - i think it was about the 2nd week he was here - i woke up at 2 am and saw a glow from the living room, and heard the computer keys being tapped. i walked out, looked over his shoulder and read a letter to a woman telling her he was in ___ working for ____, and would be here for a couple months. then the letter asked if she'd consider giving his fiance ____ an interview for a job. he made no move to delete it - i had time to read it - and he just sat there - dumbly staring at the screen. need i say i was shocked!?!
so i let go with "what the hell's going on? what are you writing?", trying to keep from throwing up at the same time - since a VERY SICK FEELING came over me at that moment - and it flashed through my mind to throw him out - right there - into the yard - GET OUT! but just as casually and unaffected as could be - he got up, went to the faucet for a drink or something (must have been concocting the story as he did that) - and started to tell me that he had promised an old friend he'd help her out back home - and he was just now writing asking for the favor. so i started picking it apart. "what do you mean you're working for ___?". (his answer - it's a guy thing, i don't want her to think i'm not working). "what do you mean fiance ____?" (his answer - i just put that in there thinking it would get her a better chance for an interview with this woman). i'm trying to understand - i really am - so i'm asking and asking. it was around this time that a look i'd remembered from 18 yrs. ago came over his face - it was the non-way of looking at me - i had remembered that- it was sickening. and he's just so cool about it all.
he says - it's nothing, i was just trying to help her out, i didn't even send it yet, look, i won't send it - see i deleted it. i asked "what's this about ___ [the job]". he says - i can go work for them tomorrow - right here in this state - but i wanted to square things away with you and i before i did that. i then proceeded to ask him why he'd lie like that - why would he lie to this woman about a fiance - when the woman goes for the interview - she's going to lie too? - i mean why all the lies - about everything? it didn't make sense!
....anyway, right then and there i should have gone with my instincts and that was GET OUT OUT OUT. but i didn't. i went to sleep - alone - trying to make myself buy his stories. and after a couple days - i did - i gave him the benefit of the doubt but told him he'd destroyed my trust - and now it would have to heal - and that you can't have a relationship with anyone without trust. (to be cont.)...

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#1166 - 12/18/02 02:56 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


The grin I am talking about is the grin he uses during the initial seduction. I found the post it was in, Cheri wrote on 8/4/02 in P. Charaxterstics: 1. superficial Charm, "And >>>>>then there is the "slow gaze" thing where he would look at the woman suggestsively and that stupid fake grin". Cheri describes how her P. acted in the office. She describes my P. exactly. That slow gaze and fake grin are so discusting now, almost makes me sick to think about it<<<<<

Okay, is this the one you are talking about? The one where they look at you, and undress you with their eyes. Am I getting close? LOL

Betrayed.

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#1167 - 12/18/02 04:28 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I am going to post this again. I think the last response got lost in cyberspace.

>>Okay, is this the one you are talking about? The one where they look at you, and undress you with their eyes. Am I getting close? LOL<<

Thats the gaze/grin I'm talking about. Last year when I saw the P. do this to someone else. It seemed like he was trying to look deep into their soul to get a deep emotional/personal connection. This can make some people uncomfortable and squirmy. RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone.

betterway



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#1168 - 12/18/02 07:21 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yaaaay!!!!!!! I finally got it. Now that look, is such a sickening sexual violation of a woman. After knowing the P for a year, he suddenly gave me that look. He had been totally asexual around me till then. The sexual energy behind , was astounding. If a guy ever gave me that look again, I'd punch him. I see gay men, when they are cruising each other, give that look. I get nauseous at the sight of it.

>>>RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone<<<<

That is so creepy. Like he is bragging about it. You know the owner of the store, where my stuff is now, has a son about 15 with ADD/HD. He told me he likes to watch the confusion on people's faces, when he plays mind games on them. A budding P?? They really do know what they are doing. I can't imagine what its like to be a P and to interact with people and have them have shocked, confused, or jolted expressions on their faces. And then they get off on it.


Betrayed.

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#1169 - 12/18/02 08:06 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,

I can imagine what you have been through, similar stories with me. And I too, feel fortunate to know better. I felt too I was different then the other one.But no, he does it to everybody. Charms, promises to hook you up and bla, bla, bla... But everytime, I feeling low, I tell myself again and again, I deserve better treatment. But I am glad my say save you for one day. All the posts here have saved me.

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#1170 - 12/18/02 08:10 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


As soon as they have "earned your trust", you tend not to question someones trustworthiness.

Betrayed,
Imagine the P I was dealing with was smart , he told me I was one of the few that he trusted. Lie, Mirroring,Creating emotion link, all in one. Imagine. But yes, you are right once one believe one drop down our radar capacities. I am sure now we will remember.

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#1171 - 12/18/02 08:11 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


You can't win in their games, they have been playing them their whole lives. The ONLY way to win, is don't play.

Exactly what we have to understand. we win by running away.

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#1172 - 12/18/02 08:24 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone<<<<

I always read that Ps prefer to communicate with emails, notes or phones, so they can avoid people seeing in their eyes. P use to tell me always to email him,or over the phone conservation. I had the impression that was much easier for that P to escape. A lot of time he would say that he get the email or didn't get the message because the phone, the computer are broken. Or whatever possible excuses one could possibly imagine.

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#1173 - 12/18/02 09:51 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>>>I always read that Ps prefer to communicate with emails, notes or phones, so they can avoid people seeing in their eyes<<<<<

With the P and other abusive types I have encountered, this was not the case. Although the P did occasionally leave notes for me. What the P did was pretend, that he had said something totally different, that I had heard him wrong, or even denied saying what he had said. He would sometimes refuse to answer questions, change the subject, etc., etc. Or that I hadn't heard, seen , felt, smelled, or saw what I did. Or that I had seen, heard, felt, smelled something that I didn't.

To one of his friends who had seen him driving around with someone and casually asked who it was, the P told him there was no one, that was my dog. The friend, laughed, then insisted he had seen him with a guy, definitely not his dog, in the car and the P adamantly denied it.

None of his friends knew each other, or even knew that the P had other friends, and were quite shocked when I mentioned the others to them. His whole life was broken into separate, secret, compartments. No one was seeing the whole picture. I probably got to see more of it than any of them, when we were in the store together. And I never realized until after how many more secret lives there were.

Betrayed.

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#1174 - 12/18/02 10:06 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>Lie, Mirroring,Creating emotion link, all in one. Imagine.<<<<

Hi Hopefull. I think that is why it is so hard to tell our stories completely. Or for someone who has never experienced a psychopath, to understand our experience. To try and convey all the different mind games going on simultaniously (spell check), is impossible.

Betrayed.

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#1175 - 12/19/02 05:06 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betrayed,
Compartmentalizing. That's what my P did too. All the things you describe as their ways to block our access to reality, mine also did.
The reason I was so damaged by the relationship, is that, unlike his "friends" who stay on the outside edges of P's life, and can't see each other, a wife, girlfriend, committed lover, gets closer to the center of the P's life. I saw more of the pieces, and how they didn't all fit together, than anyone else he knew. A lawyer told me, you have the missing link, you can put all the pieces together, you are dangerous to him, and that's why he threatens you.
To be closer to the center of their lives, never really allowed into their hearts, but closer to the center, was a very damaging and harmful place to be.
To live in close emotional and physical proximity to a person who lives to dedceive, who can only feel safe when he is in control, and who deceives and threatens in order to control. All that was highly damaging to me. Emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.
Thanks to recommendations here, I am reading the book on trauma bonding and it helps me to cope, but it's hard work and takes a commitment of time to work through.
The obsession is finally becoming managable too. All by the grace of God, alot of hard work, and not giving up. And I agree with others that coming to this place and learning was more effective than ANY therapist. I first found an online forum about a year ago. It may have this one, or another. But it has been about a year, plus or minus a few days. And finding a place where I recognized the same problem I was having, and not feel so damn alone in this was so much help. Yet it's been a year,and I know my recovery is far from over. Life is finally feeling good again, bey is still quite away to go.
Finding an online group where I could learn the truth, see and recognize my own crazy situation mirrored in others’ posts, watch and learn ways to survive and cope, was a big turning point. God Bless you all, and Happy Holidays.
-Leti

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#1176 - 12/19/02 04:15 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I saw more of the pieces, and how they didn't all fit together, than anyone else he knew. A lawyer told me, you have the missing link, you can put all the pieces together, you are dangerous to him, and that's why he threatens you.<<

Wow, leti, I like that concept - That we are the missing link. I can see that. I definetly have all the pieces, or alot of them. I know the P. like nobody else. I went by the office tonight (after hours, to avoid the P)and guess who shows up, yup, the P. Boy, I tell you, he is one smooth talking slimy sleezy P. I have to remember that aspect of him, because he was showing his charmning, loving, caring, freegoing etc. side that we all know they can show.

I was just thinking he tells me and others, that I can't take a joke. All the small things probably look like that to others. But if you put all the jokes together it is another story. And only I know that story. Well, maybe, others in his past, that have totally disappeared, know the story too. He's got it right though, I can't take a joke. I can't accept that our frienship was based on a bunch of jokes, deceit, etc. etc. I shouldn't and I won't accept that I should just be easy going and accept what he does to people. I just think the others at the office are so lost in his charm, that they can't see beyond it, to what the truth is.

Sorry, gotta run. More later.

betterway

>>To be closer to the center of their lives, never really allowed into their hearts, but closer to the center, was a very damaging and harmful place to be.
To live in close emotional and physical proximity to a person who lives to dedceive, who can only feel safe when he is in control, and who deceives and threatens in order to control. All that was highly damaging to me. Emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.<<

In the above, I would have to change the word "live" to "work". Never lived with the P. He was my business partner/best friend. Still the damage was done, as only the P's know how to do.

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#1177 - 12/19/02 04:23 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>To be closer to the center of their lives, never really allowed into their hearts, but closer to the center, was a very damaging and harmful place to be.
To live in close emotional and physical proximity to a person who lives to dedceive, who can only feel safe when he is in control, and who deceives and threatens in order to control. All that was highly damaging to me. Emotionally, mentally, and spiritually<<<<


Hi Leti, The closer we are to the center of their lives, the more they have to lie, deceive, manipulate, betray, threaten, and con to control. Because each victim has to kept separate from the others. Almost impossible for the P to do, when you are in the inner sanctum with the P. Like Finished said in an earlier post about having the spinning plates all going at once. Racing back and forth to keep them all in the air. It must be exhausting to be a P. Yes, they use bits and pieces of their entire repetoir on others, but they use all of them on those who are closest to the center.

Betrayed.


Edited by betrayed (12/19/02 08:39 PM)

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#1178 - 12/19/02 06:52 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


A lawyer told me, you have the missing link, you can put all the pieces together, you are dangerous to him, and that's why he threatens you.

My friend psychologist,since the beginning of my friendship with the P, always told me you are a tread to him. He was always doing a step ahead,a step back but for so long but doing so he was releasing more and more information, and since he must have perceived that I am aware of a lot that sooner or later I would disrespect his behavior. But p kills their treats, just like in movies, witness are killed to erase evidences.

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#1179 - 12/20/02 03:08 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>> But p kills their treats, just like in movies, witness are killed to erase evidences.<<

I know what you mean, the P. kills my soul, every chance he gets. A chance meeting with the P. has messed with my mind, and has set me back. I was doing so good. The obsessions were getting better. I have been doing everything in my power to avoid the P. I believe his running into me was like a victory for him, he got another chance to brainwash with his words and actions.
He actually keeps score. I found this out for the first time recently. He asked me to do something (business stuff)for him a couple of weeks ago. I said no, not just because it was him, I would say no if anybody at the office asked me. I don't even like doing that part of the job when it benefits my career. Anyways, the P said "I guess that is my loss and your gain."

Whats funny is from and outsiders view, he wasn't even mean to me. But he knows what trash he has placed in my head, and knows exactly how to act and what to say, to mess me up (to wake up the sleeper cells). Then I start thinking, maybe I am just so totally paranoid and nothing he did was to get at me. It is so hard for me to believe that everthing a person does could be evil. I am understanding the "No Contact" rule even more. The self respect that we talked about on an earlier post must kick in, I must find a way to turn off the tapes. He doesn't deserve one more moment in my head.

It was such a weird meeting with him. I have seen him only once in a couple months. I started to feel all that stuff. Missing the friendship (the illusion). I felt the good and the bad all in 10 minutes. Hating him and missing him at the same time. The anger kicks in that he bullied me right out of my office. I loved that job. He has no right, but he doesn't care, he will do as he pleases. He has poisoned my mind and the mind of others. Their perception of me has changed, thanks to him (its just a feeling I get). Does that make since? He has such power and control of things around him. I guess feelings is how he controls, the P found out what I feel, what makes me tick, and used it in the most deceitful ways.

I want to have a good holiday. I don't want his poison hanging around like it did last year. I regret so much having seen him recently. And to take that a step futher, to have ever known him.

I guess I will try to get some sleep.

Take care everybody,
betterway




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#1180 - 12/20/02 03:57 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,
I can't imagine how difficult it must be to have to work in the same environment with him. Mine lives in the same small region, but I only run into him in public places. In general, I avoid places where he is known to be. I saw him at the market and turned the other way. He was p.O.'d and immediately took up conversing with a young girl in an area I would pass by. I rerouted before I got there. I don't care if it bugs him or not.
I am only thinking of my own sanity, and any engagement with his glance at me, with his half-spoken word, with his presence, only puts me back into the trance AND validates his "Mr. Nice Guy" image.
I can't completely have "no contact", but I can refuse to respond. And I do. I turn my face and attend to anything else that is even vaguely interesting.
I admire your detachment while remaining in the work environment, and pray for your continued strength.
Take Care,
Leti

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#1181 - 12/20/02 06:14 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,

Hang in there, I felt the same last month. But thank god, I found this forum, and it help me go through my weaknesses. IT's true that P doesn't deserve anymore of your time. Not one second.

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#1182 - 12/20/02 08:17 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>Then I start thinking, maybe I am just so totally paranoid and nothing he did was to get at me. It is so hard for me to believe that everthing a person does could be evil.<<<<

Mantra Time: You know the truth. You know what he did.

>>>Whats funny is from and outsiders view, he wasn't even mean to me. But he knows what trash he has placed in my head, and knows exactly how to act and what to say, to mess me up (to wake up the sleeper cells).<<<<

While I was being stalked, some of the behaviors, SEEMED innocent enough to outsiders, walking in front of my store window, driving by my store, parking and sitting in his car watching my store BUT, they were just as damaging to me psychologically as coming out of my house and finding my car tires had had the air let out of them, finding evidence that he had been in my home while I was gone., etc. etc.etc.



>>>>It was such a weird meeting with him. I have seen him only once in a couple months. I started to feel all that stuff. Missing the friendship (the illusion). I felt the good and the bad all in 10 minutes. Hating him and missing him at the same time.<<<<<

I felt those feelings too, while being stalked by the dangerous, insane, pedophile. It is just the trauma bonding. Always remember that. Those feelings mess with our minds so bad. The missing him feelings aren't real. The more I was stalked, the more I felt them. The Stockholm Syndrome.


>>>The self respect that we talked about on an earlier post must kick in, I must find a way to turn off the tapes. He doesn't deserve one more moment in my head.<<<<<


I don't think it is about self respect, it is the trauma bonding. The more you try and turn off the tapes, the worse they get. What helped me, was to feel all the feelings, and grieve the relationship that he led me to believe we had. It really helped to focus my attentions on something else, anything else. The girls from the antique store next to mine sold me a couple of truckloads of books, they had bought along with a household full of antiques. God bless them. They knew I didn't have the money, so they said, pay us when you can. It helped keep my attention on going through and pricing all of the books, rather than focusing on the stalking.

>>>>He has poisoned my mind and the mind of others. Their perception of me has changed, thanks to him (its just a feeling I get). Does that make since?<<<<

That's what P's do. God knows what he has said to them about you. Trust your instincts. But also realize, you haven't done anything wrong, and the truth will prevail. You don't have to convince anyone of anything. Eventually people will realize he is a liar.


Betrayed.

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#1183 - 12/20/02 10:19 AM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States

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#1184 - 12/20/02 10:38 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


....That's what P's do. God knows what he has said to them about you. Trust your instincts. But also realize, you haven't done anything wrong, and the truth will prevail. You don't have to convince anyone of anything. Eventually people will realize he is a liar....

That is why makes me feel uncomfortable about the P, is that I am so sure that he talks bad about me, and to some people that don't know him as much,they i am sure believe in him. The Ps knows their victims so well, they know our weaknesses and know where to hit.The P always put me in a situation where I had to call to have what we were planning on doing or just for the friendship. I was insisting in a way, because of the professionnal promises we had done to others. Now I can imagine he is turning that around that I disturbed because I insisted. I did but when someone plays with your mind, it is hard to get out of it.

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#1185 - 12/20/02 03:35 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>The P always put me in a situation where I had to call to have what we were planning on doing or just for the friendship. I was insisting in a way, because of the professionnal promises we had done to others<<<<

((((Hopefull))) He set it up that way, deliberately. That's what they do. They are nasty and evil. If people choose to believe him, there is nothing you can do. Just conduct yourself with dignity and don't give him anything else he can twist around.

When the police got the P to leave my store, he told the police I was kicking him out because he wouldn't have sex with me. I was so embarrassed and humiliated. When I told a friend later that night what had happened and what he had said, she laughed and said, "Look at you, no one will ever believe that story." Two weeks later, I went to his bus to talk to him, to try and get my money back and ask why he had said these things to the police. He wasn't there. So I wrote him a note. Don't ever, ever write anything down to a P. He used it to convince the police I was stalking him 6 months later.

A year and a half later, after my grandaughter and I were relentlessly stalked by the P this whole time, a cop said to me, "You're going to have to get over this, and get on with your life." The P had told them I was stalking him. They believed him and not me. There wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. The more I tried to explain to them, the crazier I seemed.

Betrayed.

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#1186 - 12/20/02 03:43 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betrayed,
I am actually scared that what I wrote will be used against me because I have the same story from him about past women or past I don't what. I have the feeling it will be used against me, that is why I have the impression I am getting tougher these days: to absorb the coming negative things I doome to receive.

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#1187 - 12/20/02 07:12 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi All. . .

I am back from my mini break.

While I was away, i applied for another job. i did the second interview today. Please pray for me that I get it.

>>>>It is so hard for me to believe that everthing a person does could be evil. I am understanding the "No Contact" rule even more. The self respect that we talked about on an earlier post must kick in, I must find a way to turn off the tapes. He doesn't deserve one more moment in my head.<<

I had to stop by P#2 store two days ago. he was ordering a present for someone over the phone. when he hung up i was joking and asked if he was ordering my present. he said if you would have been at the christmas party you would have got some money. but since you weren't there i (p#2) gave your money to someone else. i was embarrassed and humiliated as he said it in front of his employees. they just looked at me sorta strange. i immediately left feeling totally humilated and mad at myself for even putting myself in that position to be put down by him.

i find i am thinking of him less and less. and am so grateful.

i am so appreciative for my groups that i am attending as they really validate my experience and also help me to understand more clearly how very vulnerable i was to this. probably the most helpful although it was the hardest on me emotionally, was DVIS. (department of violence intervention services). that probably is the most hardcore information of dealing with abuse issues which P's excel in. it also confirms everything that we post here as far as behavior and mind game stuff.

i didn't have time to really read carefully all the new posts (i think there were 67) but scanned through them. I am looking forward to going back though them when i have more time and reading carefully.

I thought of you all so much the past several days. It is good to be back. . .

finished

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#1188 - 12/20/02 07:29 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Welcome back, finished. I missed all your insightful posts. Hope you had a nice break!

Betterway

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#1189 - 12/20/02 08:19 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


((((betterway))))

Thanks so much! Yes it was really nice. I "accidently" ran into a wonderful job opportunity on my break time. I so hope it works out for me! It would take me completely away from P#2 and my job with him. He is such a mean spirited person. I could not believe my ears when he told me he gave my Christmas bonus to someone else. . .i know you can imagine how i felt. and really. . .was SO mad at myself for thinking I could make a fun remark and expect him to take it in the spirit I meant it. .

I am more determined than EVER to get away and STAY away. And it sounds like YOU are doing better. . getting stronger. . .we are making progress girl!

finished

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#1190 - 12/20/02 08:47 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>against me because I have the same story from him about past women or past I don't what>>>>

When the memories flooded out a month after he left the store, I said to everyone, "Oh my god, he's going to use that letter against me." They all said, "No he won't, don't worry about it."

Well he did.

You need to think about all the other things he accused people of, and be prepared for any and all of them to be set up as him as the victim and you as the abuser.

The P about a year after knowing him, started complaining to me about all the women that were coming on to him. I had never, ever, heard a guy complain about this before. If he would go to someones house to repair something, the woman would come on to him. Anybody and everybody was coming on to him. He was disgusted. Now knowing how much he had come on to me, once we were in our own store, and how I was accused by him of wanting to have sex with him. I believe a lot of people have been set up by him. That last day, when the police were called, he was screaming at me, what's a woman like you, want with a young boy like me. He complained of the girl back in Quebec, who had their 2 children, of her only wanting him for his sex.

I realize now, he had been sexually abused as a child, by one of his parents or maybe both, plus a priest, and he is just setting people up to relive the trauma over and over again. Those words he screamed about "whats a woman like you want with a young boy like me", were not directed at me, but at his original abuser.

These P's all seem to have big sexual hang ups. Any abusive types I have talked with, have all been sexually abused as children. In reliving their drama/trauma, innocent people are being accused of what the original abusers did to the P's.

All you can do Hopefull, is protect yourself, stay away from him, and hopefully he will move on to the next victim. Mine was an extraordinary case, they don't usually cause so much damage. Usually they move on within six months or so, according to my friends that have been involved in abusive relationships. The more "intimately" involved and dependent they are on you the harder it is for them to let go. It depends on how much time they have invested with you and how much the target continues interaction with them. Plus how much their hidden agendas for you were frustrated. And some will just drop you immediately and move on to the next one.

Betrayed.

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#1191 - 12/20/02 09:57 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>It would take me completely away from P#2 and my job with him.<<

This is what my therapists keeps telling me I need to do - GET AWAY! I know I will get away, I am doing it slowly, but at least I am going in the right direction now.

I am so happy for you. I will be praying for you. Would the job take you out of the same city? Would you be doing the same type of work?

>>was SO mad at myself for thinking I could make a fun remark and expect him to take it in the spirit I meant it. . <<

I understand, finished. The P. use to be so easy going with me. That was one thing I liked about the P. in the beginning was that the P. and I seemed to be in the same frame of mind (gosh, thats a scary thought now, lol). He always knew where I was coming from, and supported me on everything. I could do no wrong. He took all my insecurities and threw them out the window. Built me up to knock me down later. Now he takes everything I say and twists it around. And I mean everything, even if I attempt small talk. I am not allowed to exist in his world, unless I exist for him. He says he told people at the office he needs me and I need him. So strange. He needs me as a narsacitic (spelling?) supplier. Yuck. After being at the office with him yesterday, I feel violated. Like he invaded my space, used me to fufill his sick emotional needs. I just did what I had to do, and got the heck out of there. Tried small talk, and he turned it around to say something mean, in a jokingly kinda way. Just another attack on my spirit.

Yes, we are making progress. I have had quite a few days where a I hardly think about him. Thats a miracle. Yesterday was a set back. Didn't sleep good at all. But I knew to come here, to try to get back on track.

betterway





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#1192 - 12/20/02 10:42 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>>I could not believe my ears when he told me he gave my Christmas bonus to someone else. . .i know you can imagine how i felt. and really. . .was SO mad at myself for thinking I could make a fun remark and expect him to take it in the spirit I meant it. . <<<<

Hi Finished. Welcome back!!!

Don't be too down on yourself about this. No matter what you said or did, he would have managed to do the same number on you. He was just waiting for a chance, to do this to you. You're the enemy, anything you say or do will be used against you.Expect the worst from them, and you usually won't be disappointed. Probably if you had said nothing and not even looked at him, he would have managed to get it in. Its so hard to keep our guard up, at all times, with these people. When you least expect it they zing you. Probably next time you see him he'll be nice as pie, to soften you up for the next time. Believe me, I still get zapped by these types, BUT usually I remember to throw it right back at them. Its so hard to have your guard up all the time. That's why No Contact is so important.
Let's hope you get that new job, and you won't have to deal with this idiot ever again.

Betrayed.

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#1193 - 12/21/02 05:22 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway wrote:
"He has poisoned my mind and the mind of others. Their perception of me has changed, thanks to him (its just a feeling I get). Does that make since?"

It makes perfect sense when you are dealing with a P. It rarely happens with people who are not P's. And it makes no sense to someone who has never been involved with a P.
The best advice I got to deal with it, was from a man who informed me about the lies and trap that the P was spreading around about me. This man was concerned for my safety and for my reputation in the community. He advised me to carry myself with dignity and remain aloof and above it. He and others also advised me that the P would eventually reveal himself as a liar. And he has, to many. I echo the advice about not putting anything in writing. My emails to P got turned around and taken out of context, to make it look as if I was stalking him. When I see him, I have to remind mylelf, aloof, no response, disengage, detach.
Hang in there, you're doing fine.
-Leti

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#1194 - 12/21/02 07:13 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


My emails to P got turned around and taken out of context, to make it look as if I was stalking him. When I see him, I have to remind mylelf, aloof, no response, disengage, detach.
I should have that advice before. Probably we should open a discussion folder on immediate advices. As I said before anything that has to do with the P is bound to trouble. I could tell so many more story about stalking but it sounds too obvious whom I am talking about.

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#1195 - 12/21/02 07:14 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Welcome back Finished. I hope you get that new job.

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#1196 - 12/21/02 07:27 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

I read posts that I had never read before. In one you sounded disapointed that your brother was somewhat critical instead of being comforting and understanding. My sister criticized me and almost hysterically but by doing so she took me out of the world of P#1. With P2 she warned me and criticized me again but once again she did help me by doing so; sibling's critics morph sometimes both into safety blankets and into eyes openers. Since I suspected P2 was a P, she told me: "if you really thing he is one, forget it, you don't have my blessing." I don't know how your brother were but probably like mine, "move on kind of attitude." But that is OK, they wish us the best.

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#1197 - 12/21/02 07:29 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finsihed I forgot this.

Remember we when through a lot to understand and sometimes I forget our brothers hasn't.

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#1198 - 12/21/02 03:54 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>"move on kind of attitude."<<

hopeful,
I had a family member just today, say to me "to just let it go". This same family member has said that to me before. For the most part I just try not to discuss it with people that don't understand. I agree they just want the best for us. I have had people say to me "Oh just let it blow over, don't think another thing about it". Yeah, right!! LOL

Betterway

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#1199 - 12/21/02 05:39 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway

>>I am so happy for you. I will be praying for you. Would the job take you out of the same city? Would you be doing the same type of work?<<

Thank you so much! I will still be working here and in the same line of work. It is such a wonderful job opportunity and another way for my sense of dignity to be restored.

You know Betterway, when I started updating my resume, I surprised myself as how much it helped my self esteem. I looked at some of the things I have accomplished over these past years (in spite of all I have been through with P#2) and I felt proud of myself. Even though I have been in such a fog and reeling and rocking from all I have been through, I have still managed to succeed in other areas of my life. And when I interviewed, I was so confident of my ability to do the job. . .honest. . .I surprised myself!!! Pleasantly for a change LOL.

In the past I have asked P#2 to use his influence to speak a word of recommendation on my behalf. This time, I didn't even TELL him about ANY of my plans. He knows I am looking for another job, but did not tell him about this particular one. Actually, Betterway, I have found out that he has sabotaged me more than once on some very good opportunities I have had. . .(didn't want to take ANY chances this time). One time,(okay more than once LOL) caught him in an out and out lie (surprise. . .) when I was getting ready to make a carreer change. It was pretty great how I handled it. Went to the person he had told me that said something negative in regard to what I was doing. Did it immediately. Found out the person didn't even KNOW what I was talking about. . .and. . .even wished me well in my new endeavor which did not materalize because he took it to a higher level and sabotaged it completely. Didn't find that part out till MUCH later.

>>He always knew where I was coming from, and supported me on everything. I could do no wrong. He took all my insecurities and threw them out the window. Built me up to knock me down later.<<<

Me too!!

I was like "Wonder Woman". . . until. . .he had hooked me and was done with me. And then. . .I was only good for what I could contribute to his bottomline or whatever he needed me for. And. . .I, zombied out, was there at his beck and call. Tramua bonded! to the max. . .the max!

>>Tried small talk, and he turned it around to say something mean, in a jokingly kinda way. Just another attack on my spirit.<<

These are the kind of things that help propell me and keep me in action to RUN. . .GET AWAY. . .and STAY AWAY. . .!!! I found myself after that mean comment feeling so dimished. Valueless. . .unimportant. A person that you could say anything to and it is okay. . .a buffoon. . .the person to have a good laugh at behind their back. I am coming to realize, I am better than that. Before, I was NUMB. He could say these things and I felt the pain but thought I was being to sensitive. Now I know, it is designed to kill my spirit.

We are not going to let them do that to us Betterway and all my friends here on the forum. We are worth more than that. We deserve to be treated with dignity and respect! We have been treated dispiciably but we are picking ourselves up! We are strong, smart and resiliant women! A gift, not to be treated like a worthless peice of trash. No more! No more! We have what it takes, I know we do. Look what we have been through and survived! It is amazing as I think of it and read the stories posted here. We are remarkable and we are making progress. Everyday! Somedays better, somedays worse but progress is being made. I see it here and I feel it in myself.

We are growing my dear forum friends. . .and healing!

Blessings!
finished

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#1200 - 12/21/02 05:54 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betrayed!!

>> Probably next time you see him he'll be nice as pie, to soften you up for the next time.<<

You're absolutely right!

Called me about an hour later. . .nice, nice, nice! Said we'll have to do lunch sometime next week (yeh. . uhhuh. . .right. . .). . .WRONG!!! But I just said, (sweetly) "yes that will be nice". I know it was just the "makeup" for his rudeness to absolve himself of whatever. I know he has no intention of following up on that. He had to know that was so unkind in front of his employees.

No matter. . .I'm moving on.

>>BUT usually I remember to throw it right back at them. Its so hard to have your guard up all the time.<<

You know Betrayed, that is a skill that I just never learned. Most people I deal with don't do this to me. I'm usually not even aware until afterward that I have been zinged. I am trying to be more aware these days though. Just so I can maintain my self respect in my own way.

>>Let's hope you get that new job, and you won't have to deal with this idiot ever again.<<

Love that Betrayed!!! LOL. . .my sentiments exactly.

>>Hi Finished. Welcome back!!! <<

Thanks (((Betrayed))). . .it is good to be back!
Finished

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#1201 - 12/21/02 06:10 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>It depends on how much time they have invested with you and how much the target continues interaction with them. Plus how much their hidden agendas for you were frustrated. And some will just drop you immediately and move on to the next one.<<

P#2 is SO proud and arrogant. He would not lower himself to chase me. He stays in touch but distantly, inconsistently and somewhat impersonally but nonetheless continues to stay in touch. I am fortunate that way. Unfortunately, he does take up space in my head and my thoughts. I'm working on that though. When I find myself obsessing these days, I catch myself and say stop it! Then I turn my thoughts somewhere else. Sounds easy? It's not! It's work! One of these days Betrayed. . .he will be just a passing thought.

>>It depends on how much time they have invested with you and how much the target continues interaction with them. Plus how much their hidden agendas for you were frustrated. And some will just drop you immediately and move on to the next one.<<

Almost nine years now that I have been hooked on this P. But he would be WAY to proud to pursue me Betrayed. (Thank You God. . .)

finished


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#1202 - 12/21/02 06:16 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Hopeful :-)

>>I have to remind myself, aloof, no response, disengage, detach. I should have that advice before. Probably we should open a discussion folder on immediate advices. <<

That is so good!!! I know for certain sure it always catches me by surprise. I'm usually not aware I've been "hit" until way after. Then I think. . .hey. . .I just got stabbed. I felt it but wasn't aware until later.

Thank you for your encouragement on my job pursuit. I'm also "hopeful" :-)

finished

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#1203 - 12/21/02 06:31 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful. . .

>> I don't know how your brother were but probably like mine, "move on kind of attitude." But that is
OK, they wish us the best.<<

Thank you for that. I have had lots of mixed feelings about my family since this had happened. I have discovered there are some family dynamics that I was not aware of that have been helpful to know. But Hopeful, I sure don't want to harbor bad feelings toward my brother.

I was in some counseling with DVIS on Wednesday and the counselor did help me untangle some stuff. She told me my brother was probably angry with me for being in that position. That it was about him and how this had affected him and caused him discomfort. There has been so many lessons for me in this P experience. The entire trauma had brought up more than just one issue. I feel like I am dealing with about four major areas. Sometimes overwhelming but fortunately I have alot of support with my groups and this forum right now. I feel so blessed that way. I don't know where I would be right now if I had not "accidently" stumbled across this forum shortly after all hell broke loose. Betrayed encouraged me to go to DVIS and where ever else I could go to get help. Somedays (like today) I feel fragile but mostly I feel strong and empowered because I'm working hard to learn and understand myself and what I have been dealling with.

It's the only way out for me! I appreciate your posts Hopeful. . .

finished

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#1204 - 12/21/02 06:54 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway!

>>I have had people say to me "Oh just let it blow over, don't think another thing about it". Yeah, right!! LOL <<

Boy do you got that right! Don't we wish it were that easy. . .

After P moves into our psyche it's not that simple anymore. We are brainwashed, shocked, reeling, rocking. I felt like I was blindfolded and spun in every direction while others looked on and entertained themselves by watching me helplessly try to find my way out.

My brother really did not understand. I thought he did but he didn't. Just another thing I have had to accept. He did not recognize or acknowledge that I was a target (victim). He blamed me.

I am finding my "voice" these days. I haven't been able to say it yet but one day I will be able to tell him I am learning how not to ever be a "victim" again cause that's what I'm doing. It was equally as devestating to me as the assault by P#2 to hear his voice accuse me. I NEVER EVER felt more shame put on me than that night. I have had to work through alot (as we all have :-). . .)

I appreciated your comments on that. It helps so much to post our feelings. It helps make it clear in my own head and heart what I'm feeling.

Appreciatively
finished

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#1205 - 12/21/02 07:48 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>He stays in touch but distantly, inconsistently and somewhat impersonally but nonetheless continues to stay in touch. I am fortunate that way. Unfortunately, he does take up space in my head and my thoughts.<<

ditto, finished. The P. is actually helping me to detach by staying somewhat in contact. Sounds silly uhh. But, I couldn't do it cold turkey, I tried. As I see and talk to the P. even less I feel like I'm not as confused. I am working so hard on breaking those emotional ties. The P. told me when I started working at home, that even if I didn't come back to the office, I needed to get away and get my head clear. He was right about that.

The P. calls me up and says, "whats going on, why don't you call me as much anymore". I say I'm just busy working and going Christmas shopping. Wouldn't he just be shocked if he really knew what I was doing. That I am learning about what he has done to me. I am getting stronger, and he will have no more control over me. That is my goal, has been my goal for a year. It is hard hard work. I do feel like I am getting further along then I have in the past with my goal.

I found my thoughts straying today, thinking well maybe he is just narsicistic and there is hope for him. As if I could somehow handle narsicism better than a P. I'm learning to talk myself out of those kinds of thoughts. I have to remind myself regularly of this last year. I was an absolute mess. Like you said in another post, you were at his beck and call. That's me. He treated me so badly, and I kept going back for more.

Somebody mentioned reading about trauma bonding. Does anybody know a good book I can read about it?

betterway



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#1206 - 12/22/02 07:11 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betterway. . .

>>I found my thoughts straying today, thinking well maybe he is just narsicistic and there is hope for him. As if I could somehow handle narsicism better than a P. <<<

Oh I so relate to that one. I do think P#2 is a Narcissist. At first I thought. . .well. . .maybe there is some hope here. I continue to read and learn. What I have learned is this, the only way to stay in a relationship with a Narcissist is to become an inverted narcissist (which when I read THAT profile, saw I was on my way to becoming).

I can see that I was grasping. Grasping for some shred of hope to keep my denial thing going on. I am more accepting these days that he knew what he was doing when he "targeted" me. See, I thought he REALLY cared about me, REALLY was my friend. That went on for years (three and a half to four). I genuinely trusted him. I would have never gone "there" if I hadn't. Oh he was the patient one. . .

>>The P. calls me up and says, "whats going on, why don't you call me as much anymore". I say I'm just busy working and going Christmas shopping. Wouldn't he just be shocked if he really knew what I was doing. That I am learning about what he has done to me. I am getting stronger, , < < <

Same here! He calls and says "what's finished doing" how's business etc. Oh yes. . .he would be FLOORED to know what's really going on with me. TOTALLY FLOORED! He underestimates me that way. . .you know. He dosn't think I'm that smart and why would he, I have been in his power and control for over five years.

I don't know of a book on trauma bonding but found a web site that spoke of it. I will have to go find it for you. There is a test online and information in regards to this. Betrayed recommeded some info also (books) just before I took my vacation. I'll go look. These days just running as fast as I can to get the Christmas stuff done. . . :-)
finished

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#1207 - 12/22/02 07:22 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


betterway,

I found my thoughts straying today, thinking well maybe he is just narsicistic and there is hope for him. As if I could somehow handle narsicism better than a P. I'm learning to talk myself out of those kinds of thoughts. I have to remind myself regularly of this last year. I was an absolute mess. Like you said in another post, you were at his beck and call. That's me. He treated me so badly, and I kept going back for more.

At the end , it doesn't matter the diagnostic. We felt they did something wrong to us, and the trauma is real. I tell myself, what if the Ps I knew weren't Ps , I still can't handle them. ( but everyday, wtih more distance, I do believe that they were Ps. What strikes me the most is that all the posts confirm some patterns implicit or explicit in all of them as they were programmed to a a certain behavior and tunnel of troubles.

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#1208 - 12/22/02 07:27 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have had people say to me "Oh just let it blow over, don't think another thing about it". Yeah, right!! LOL

I have decided that I won't either talk about it. I have friend that do attract some kind of bad people and they don t quite understand either. They have lived with sunglasses all their lives. Since they bad people aren't evidently bad and not that bad compare to Ps, they will never really hit a wall so they can't udnerstand. Positively, we have potential for growth, if that is what we have to celebrate.

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#1209 - 12/22/02 07:37 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway and Finished,
...I was like "Wonder Woman". . . until. . .he had hooked me and was done with me. And then. . .I was only good for what I could contribute to his bottomline or whatever he needed me for. And. . .I, zombied out, was there at his beck and call. Tramua bonded! to the max. . .the max! .....

I have been to be a Wonder Woman before I met the P. I also zombied out even at the beginning. I guess it is a little what my friend the psychologist was telling about, the motive of their relations is always power. It makes sense that in their limited cone of vision and on the layers of their perception appears selected "power" people in whatever form they could take. Women are strong, they go through more emotionally because we give birth, we handle more at once and we nurture. All that morphs us in great business caterpillars and great preys.

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#1210 - 12/22/02 07:40 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Called me about an hour later. . .nice, nice, nice! Said we'll have to do lunch sometime next week (yeh. . uhhuh. . .right. . .). . .WRONG!!! But I just said, (sweetly) "yes that will be nice".

I am allergic to those words. I can no longer hear them. It seems that Ps said them compulsively. When the P said that last, I blew up but days after.

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#1211 - 12/22/02 08:15 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful!!! I love your words!

>>Women are strong, they go through more emotionally because we give birth, we handle more at once and we nurture. All that morphs us in great business caterpillars and great preys.<<

Absolutely great!!!. . .and so true. . .

finished

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#1212 - 12/22/02 08:21 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful!!

More good words!

>> . . . they will never really hit a wall so they can't udnerstand. Positively, we have potential for growth, if that is what we have to celebrate. <<

Oh that is so RIGHT ON!! It is what I am focusing on these days. . .

Many thanks Hopeful,
Finished

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#1213 - 12/22/02 08:26 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful!

So many of the words in your posts captured my attention today! Good words!

>> At the end , it doesn't matter the diagnostic. We felt they did something wrong to us, and the trauma is real. I tell myself, what if the Ps I knew weren't Ps , I still can't handle them. ( but everyday, wtih more distance, I do believe that they were Ps. What strikes me the most is that all the posts confirm some patterns implicit or explicit in all of them as they were programmed to a a certain behavior and tunnel of troubles. <<<

Yes indeed! The tunnel of troubles.

But, THANKFULLY. . .I am beginning to see LIGHT at the END of this TUNNEL OF TROUBLES. . .

The train is moving faster in that direction (forward). I have been in reverse for to long.

Blessings
finished

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#1214 - 12/22/02 10:19 AM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi finished, I found one book on trauma bonding that looked interesting:

Betrayal Bonds
By Patrick Carnes

Exploitive relationships can create trauma bonds - chains of trust that link you to someone who is dangerous, abusive, and toxic. Divorce, employee relations, litigation, incest and child abuse, family and marital systems, domestic violence, hostage situations, kidnapping, professional exploitation and religious abuse are all areas of trauma bonding. Each of these relationships shares one thing: it is a situation of incredible intensity or importance where there is an exploitation of trust or power.

Ordering information

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#1215 - 12/22/02 10:49 AM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Dianne!

This is one I will definitely get. . .I have browsed through some of his other books but have not seen this one. Thank you again. .
finished

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#1216 - 12/25/02 01:41 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered




this statement hits home for me. i posted under Psychopath Christmas that my P is in his "winter bardo", which means that around winter solstice he becomes ascetic. P warned me of this back in July. So here we are, no sex, as promised, except now it's 75% seasonal, and 35% me because I am not producing the "flower of spiritual creativity" that would elicit a sexual response from him - i'm not bringing newness to the relationship (i guess. any clues?). i responded by explaining that being the primary support of his royal highnass, there wasn't much time left for "newness". (meanwhile, he sits around like a lump and reads most of the day. ain't nothing new happening on his end either) then the story changed. he's sexually blocked because he doesn't trust that i won't lure him into a vulnerable emotional state, and then go for the jugular like his mother always did. he is admittedly self-conscious about not having sex with me right now, but the bottom line is, he can't get it up in winter. he feels inadequate about it, so let's just project it on me and make it my fault along with the backalley approach to sexual rejection.

as i have read through these stories, i realize how many of you have suffered physical abuse, stalking, etc. while my current P tried to strangle me once, he has not become violent with me since. i guess he is more of an emotional/verbal abuse kind of guy. LOL i know how scary it is to be stalked and attacked though. once i started learning about Ps, i now realize that a previous husband of mine, to whom i was married for 9 years, was/is also a P. he was one evil SOB, and stalked me for 4 years during our divorce, stole my truck, kicked in my front door, threatened me at gun point, etc. that's when i started carrying a gun, which is legal in the state where i live. it had boiled down to a him or me situation, and i decided it wasn't going to be me.

once you have the Ps #, it's possible to be one step ahead, but it's still a no win.

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#1217 - 12/25/02 01:43 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


this is the statement i am referring to (for some reason it didn't show up on my post):
"These P's all seem to have big sexual hang ups. Any abusive types I have talked with, have all been sexually abused as children. In reliving their drama/trauma, innocent people are being accused of what the original abusers did to the P's."


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#1218 - 12/26/02 11:36 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I said in an earlier post:
>>As I see and talk to the P. even less I feel like I'm not as confused. I am working so hard on breaking those emotional ties.<<

I feel an emptiness. I know I just feel the loss of a frienship I thought I had. I have been grieving for a long time. Sometimes getting stuck in the pain, although that is now getting better. As I pull further and further away the P. does call me less. I think I hold on to waiting for him to call because that takes away a little bit of the sting that he reduced me to nothing, during the devaluation phase. I guess if he calls I feel like "I must not be nothing" he still cares. hmmm. What a thought uhh.

I also know that as he pulls further away, that all his focus is going on his new primary target (although I believe I am his secondary supply of narcissm). I can only hold onto the thought that in about a year from now his new target will be as lost and as hurt as I have been. I actually have prayed for her.

I know that when I read the books and all the posts on this forum that he truly fits almost all the criteria. So sad. Sad that some people could do these things to others. I know all of us targets have been deeply affected and our lifes change for ever. Anyway mine has.

I can say now that I have had days, occasionally a few in a row where I feel better, and where the thoughts of the discusting evil events of the past 2 years doesn't even enter my mind. I also know that the injury to me emotionally has been very traumatic, and I have to continue to work so very very hard to heal, and not get sucked back into the injury, which most of it is now just in my thoughts and memory.

Thanks for the suggestions on the book to read about trauma bonding. I hope to read it this week.

Finished - when do you find out about your job?

Bye for now.
betterway


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#1219 - 12/28/02 05:20 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I had to stop by P#2 store two days ago. he was ordering a present for someone over the phone. when he hung up i was joking and asked if he was ordering my present. he said if you would have been at the christmas party you would have got some money. but since you weren't there i (p#2) gave your money to someone else.<<

finished,
I was thinking about you today. I have worked for this company for 4 yrs and this was the first year I didn't receive a card or a gift from the company. I suppose since I didn't go to the party, I don't deserve one. Just another example of how the P. has poisoned the office. I do have to say there are a select few in the office that talk to me as if I am an inteligent person. They have not let the P. poisoned them. It is so hard to believe how much control the P. has over the company. He has made one of the owners one of his targets, and she has allowed him in.

I keep wondering today, why I continue to work for this place. Make money for the owners.

I just put a big deal together and cut my commission just a little (which does affect the company a little bit) to make the deal happen. When I told the owner that the deal might not have happened if I didn't cut a little bit, she just sighed one of those discusting controlling sighs. She is so ignorant to how sales works.

Finished - It just amazes me how much our stories are alike, since we worked with the P. I sometimes wonder if the P's go to school or something to plan how to manipulate and brainwash us unsuspecting targets.

Have been having some PTSD. Just hope one day I will be totally free of all these memories.

Just want everybody to know I miss all the posting. I realize it is the holidays. Hope you all have a Happy New Year.

betterway


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#1220 - 01/09/03 08:08 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betterway. . .
The hard drive crashed on my computer after my last post and I just now got it fixed and back to my life line here. i sure have missed you all.

>>Finished - It just amazes me how much our stories are alike, since we worked with the P. I sometimes wonder if the P's go to school or something to plan how to manipulate and brainwash us unsuspecting targets<<

It's in their nature, it just comes naturally. The reality of it all is many times to much to bear. It is still difficult for me to accept that he really never cared about me that I was just a challenge and someone that he could use. I must keep focused on the evidence because it would be so much easier to try to kid myself.

I still have not heard about the job. I have called to check but the person that makes the decesion has been out of the office. Since I have not heard a "no", there is still a possibility!

I also still suffer from the PTSD. I finally did go to a medical doctor and got some meds. I actually got so bad my heart was pounding out of my chest all day and I couldn't sleep at night. This P encounter has changed me in so many ways. I NEVER EVER had a panic or anxiety attack before this and I've been through alot (P#1 was an alcholic)but compared to P#2 a walk in the park. . .

I feel like I'm getting better but somedays are still a little rough. I just do the best I can one day at a time.

Hope all is going well with you Betterway. . .I have a lot of catching up to do (reading through the posts).

Be back tommorrow!

Finished

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#1221 - 01/09/03 08:45 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,
So glad you are back. I wondered what happened to you. I've had the flu today, so heading off to bed. betterway

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#1222 - 01/10/03 01:09 AM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
what is PTSD?

freedom

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#1223 - 01/10/03 01:23 AM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
"It is still difficult for me to accept that he really never cared about me that I was just a challenge and someone that he could use. I must keep focused on the evidence because it would be so much easier to try to kid myself."

"i must keep focused on the evidence"
i like that
it is so true
to keep focused on the evidence
again i have to say it
the truth shall set us free

it does seem that destiny is on my side
because i could have easily seeing him tonight
and he was taking all the good turn
to lose me one more day
so God help me
He surely did

i went out tonight dancing
he was looking for me
he asked a friend where i was
she said she was not a detective
he then prodeeded telling her how he is rich
he got his money from royalty
we all know better
that the reason is even driving a car
and live in a beautiful house
and even has a cell phone
is because he has found another sucker like me
and the rest of the ladies
i met
that he sucked in his little game
he is a real clown he can make us laugh
when we just want to cry
and after the laugh is over it is reality
that we have been con

love you'all
freedom



freedom

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#1224 - 01/14/03 08:11 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway. . .me too. . .got the flu. I'll be glad to be up to speed and posting again. .
hope you are better. . .
finished

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#1225 - 01/14/03 08:33 AM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
rick b

01/04/03 06:09 PM

my story

It has been one month since "D Day"..... when the light bulb went off and I put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. I found this forum a few days later. It has been comforting, informative and inspirational.

Perhaps I can bring a new perspective to the forum being that I am a man. And, from what I have read online, considering that I am gay, I guess that I stand alone.

Writing has always been cathartic for me, and I realize that I cannotfully move ahead until I organize my thoughts in this manner. I hope that what I have to pass on may be helpful in some way to someone out there.
Here is my story.

I met my P for the first time last June. I was nearing the end of a ten year relationship and my heart was breaking. It had been a tragic eight months for me. I was fragile, needy, ready for a distraction and some attention. Straight
or gay... I had heard from single friends throughout the country how difficult it was to meet intelligent, available, sane people these days. My Pappeared to possess all the qualities that I hoped to meet in another person
.... not into drugs, excessive drinking, unsafe sex, or anything crazy. He listened to me and gave me the impression that he understood all that I was going through.
He told me that he had never met anyone so incredibly sincere, honest and straightforward. As I separated permanently from my partner I was drawn in closer to my P. I felt "lucky" to have met a caring, loving person so quickly. The attraction was hypnotic.

At that time he had insisted that we see each other exclusively. I told him that I would probably regret it if I didn't at least give it a chance. I was amazed at how affectionate and attentive he was. This more than made up for the fact that I could not establish any type of loving eye contact with him. I remember thinking that it felt as if he could never get close enough.... as if he was trying to feed off of me. How true!

I established a good connection with both his mother and his brother, both of whom ran the day to day operations of two of his businesses (but were kept away from the books, etc..) I had a few casual meetings with some of his neighbors. I never met any of his friends that he spoke of, though. Typically, they lived in other parts of the country... or so he said. His life had taken him to many interesting parts of the world and, although many of his experiences were confirmed by his family, a lot of it sounded rather embellished. He was completely fascinated
by successful and ambitious people, fast cars and extravagance. I had been captivated by much the same at one point in my life and I attributed this to
his age...being only 27.

We both had busy lives with work, friends and family. Aside from the two businesses he was constantly dealing with other projects, ideas and inventions. We saw each other sporadically and that was fine with me at the time.
Often, though, his stories of how he spent his time would change from one week to the next. I didn't want to come across as untrusting , so I never questioned these inconsistencies. In addition, he never wanted to make
plans in advance, always waiting to the last minute to get together for dinner, etc... I tried to be understanding by giving him his space and being flexible.

Slowly, though, my intuition started sending me warning signals. I really couldn't describe it specifically. It just felt as if something was not correct. I talked about this with my friends and my therapist. I thought that I had been so damaged from my last relationship that I was
not allowing myself to trust this new person in my life. I kept trying to brush these feelings aside.

The turning point came when my life, as I had known it, suddenly came to an abrupt halt. My ex-partner moved out of town, as did one of my closest friends and my business started to decline. Suddenly I had a lot of free
time on my hands and I found myself trying to get closer to my P and his brother..... helping out on projects, trying to make plans with them.

It occurred to me that my P never told me how he felt about me. I brought it to his attention one evening. "I don't like to talk about my feelings, I prefer to show people how I feel" was his response. At the time I thought this was reasonable and I took it in stride. I also told him that I took commitment rather seriously and that I could
see myself working towards that with him. I now realize, this did not sit too well with my P. Suddenly, it was as if only the cold water valve on the shower would work and he
started getting more distant. We slept together frequently, but the sex had pretty much come to an end along with any other form of affection. Even his hugs became cold...
with the dreaded triple pat on the back, dismissing me. When he felt me backing off, pulling away and giving him more space he would say something to reel me back in and make my heart melt. I started to feel like a ping pong ball.

Although I did not realize it at the time I was at his total disposal...running errands and being available whenever he needed me for something, Somehow I just could not say "no." Still, however, red flags kept coming my way. It wasn't that I chose to ignore them, in fact I talked about them with my friends. I guess it was the inability to string them together to form a cohesive picture of what was going on.
We all want to trust.

One issue that raised my eyebrow occurred when I was on a trip out of town helping my best friend move into a new home. I wanted to return one day early but I didn't want to
insult my friend. My P suggested that I tell my friend that something had come up with my job and it was important that I get back. I told him " I don't operate that way" and
that I would just tell my friend the truth.... that I was feeling like I needed to get back and I had stayed long enough.

Shortly thereafter my P's dog was stolen. When he told me about the incident he didn't seem to be disturbed or concerned stating that his brother was really worried and upset...as was his mother. The dog was returned three days later and, still, my P could only tell me how happy
and relieved his brother was. I thought this was odd.

We went to an action-packed movie one evening, a real thriller. My body jerked around in the seat, involuntarily, with the fast chase scenes, close calls and unexpected twists and turns such films make. Thinking back on it, although it barely registered at the time, my P sat through
the entire picture cool as a cucumber.

One evening I pulled his brother aside and told him how happy I was to be dating my P....and that I was fine with the fact that he had insisted on the exclusivity. It made me feel as if I were not squandering my energies. His brother didn't say anything in response....and just sat there
quietly with an odd look on his face. Obviously he was disturbed by what I said.

We continued to spend quite a bit of time together, although he started working late more often or had
meetings to go to at night. Sometimes he would come over late. His family even stayed overnight at my house one holiday evening. He acted proud to show them my home.

I tried to get a hold of my feelings but I could not shake the sensation of being imbalanced, out of whack. I talked about this, again, with my therapist and even went for acupuncture, both of which helped me quite a bit in the past. Something about this situation was not sitting well with me but I still couldn't put my finger on it.

I asked him several times if he wanted to see other people, if he wasn't attracted to me...and he always looked at me like I was crazy and would answer with the question "why would you say that?" I told him that I just could not read him. A lot of people told him that, he said.

Finally I stopped by his house , one evening, after he cancelled on me at the last minute. I needed to get a lot off of my chest and I laid it all out in front of him.... that I had been honest with him and wasn't seeing anyone else... that I was a man of my word... that I loved
him as a friend and could love him as a partner if he gave me the chance. He just kept looking at me with a blank expression and kept repeating "we have to talk about this next week". I told him that I had no idea how he felt about me. If he was interested in someone else to please tell me so I could move on with my life. My heart had already been broken once this year. He just continued to look at me with a blank expression in his face, absolutely no emotion whatsoever. As I pulled away from his house something made me look in the rearview mirror. I saw another car pull up. I had missed his date by 35 seconds! I walked back into the house purposefully, his date was seated on the sofa. I went up to my P's face and said to him very calmly "thank you"... turned on my heel and left.

I was furious and insulted. Still I kept my wits about me and immediately got on the internet when I returned home. I conducted a search for "compulsive lying" which brought me to psychopath within minutes. What I read chilled me to the bone and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up straight. Suddenly everything came into place. I researched further into narcissistic personality disorder and even more pieces of the puzzle started to fit together. I created a list of 35 of the personality traits that I culled from the various articles that I read. I was amazed that this person fit almost every one of them, and how they jogged my memory of events and circumstances that had happened. I was scared and elated at the same time. But could I be the only one that truly new about this? What about his mother and his brother? I realized that I had been too close to the situation to put together the whole picture....but could it be that they did not know, or were they just holding back on me?

I talked with friends and relatives and was astounded at how many people had come across, or had been involved with, other people like this. One close friend had grown up with a psychopath/narcissist mother. She offered me the most valuable insight and support. And, again, I spoke with my therapist, although I was wary because I had read somewhere that psychopaths tend to be attracted to that particular
field. I couldn't help but feel that he seemed to be just a little bit uncomfortable that day.

My mood fluctuated between feeling knowledgeable and free and depression from the grim reality at hand. I even felt scared for my life, that I had been shaken by the roots. I couldn't be in my house without the alarm on. That is where this forum has been most helpful. No one truly knows the emptiness of having solved this crime...other than those that have been there themselves. When we hear that someone
is terminally ill we can comfort them in some way and in so doing know that we are of use. But in this plot twist
of a trilogy, we play detectives uncovering the fact that, in reality, we are the victims.

Everything that I read, and all of the people that I spoke with concurred..... no contact and get as far away
from the center of this picture as possible. However, my inner voice was driving me on two points. Although I had given my P innumerable gifts, I had loaned him something of sentimental value when we went on a trip out of town shortly before I came to my discovery. So, four days after that fateful night I stopped by his house with backup.... a friend came with me. I found my P and his brother in the backyard...marched right up to him and demanded, in a very stern voice, that the item be returned... now! I had to
repeat myself several times. He had never heard me speak in this manner and stand my ground. It, clearly, disturbed him because he hopped to it. l left there, shaken, because it was the first time I had seen him knowing the truth. The glazed, emotionless look in his eyes shook me beyond belief. Still, I felt like I had taken
some of my power back.

That night I had a breakdown, of sorts. I started crying at the realization of the situation at hand.... that
nothing could be done. The noise that came out of my mouth scared me. I thought, surely, my neighbors
would call the police. I hadn't known I was capable of releasing the pain and anguish in such a primal,
gut wrenching, loud manner.

I continued my research and struggled with speaking with his mother. How could I tell a mother that her son was a psychopath...unless she already knew?! It has been one of the most gut wrenching decisions that I have ever struggled with. It haunted me. Finally, I picked up the phone later
that week and called her. She told me that she had been meaning to call me for weeks to see if I could
recommend a therapist for her son! She couldn't figure him out. She didn't understand why he lied so much...
why he couldn't stay involved with anyone in a relationship, why she could never get a meaningful hug
out of him. I was so relieved. Although we spoke for almost three hours that day I could not tell her what I knew on the phone. I didn't think it was appropriate. It did give me the opportunity to gather a lot of information about my P, though. Between massive head trauma at age two (resulting in his losing his hearing in one ear), possible genetic predisposition from his father , probable sexual assault as a toddler and issues with authoritative figures (the maternal grandmother is another story unto herself) ..... this guy is a textbook case.

We met the following week and spent one entire day together. It was exhausting and she had difficulty with the truth... although I tried my best to break it to her gently. I witnessed the look on her face when it all started making sense to her though. It was a revelation and the stories started spilling out of her mouth about "this time" and "that time", etc....

I have spoken with his mother many times since. I constantly remind her of how wonderful she truly is.... powerful, loving, caring, nurturing and understanding. She now realizes these amazing qualities are stripped when she is around her P son... how controlled she and her other son have been for so many years. Our P has manipulated many people and situations, always to his advantage and gain. It is in her hands now and I feel like my work has been done with her P son.

My P called me once to "apologize I guess" for what had happened. In his monotone voice he told me how he thought we would be "friends for a long time and didn't think things would turn out this way." He wanted to get together, at least, one more time so we could talk. I told him that I imagined that "perhaps" it was difficult for him to call me....I wasn't comfortable with seeing him at the moment and needed some time and space....and, quite frankly, I wasn't sure when I would be ready to see him again. I thought he registered a note of surprise or disappointment when he said "well, I guess I'll have to wait to hear from you"...but that could have been my imagination, or my memory, playing a trick on me. No doubt!

I am taking the no contact rule quite seriously and have found that, as a result, each day gets easier and I feel more balanced and grounded. Still, though, I mourn for what I now realize was not returned to me in this relationship.... compassion, empathy, understanding and love.... probably because I have so much of that to give. I have moved passed the bitter stage because, intellectually, I realize that my P simply does not have any of these qualities to share with another person... any person. Therefore, how can I possibly take it personally? In a strange way it makes my heart open up and love him even more. I understand.

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#1226 - 01/14/03 08:48 AM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
freedom, PTST is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

You can find some information here regarding PTSD and some recommended books to explore reading.

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#1227 - 01/14/03 01:27 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


I never finished my story from before Christmas and will now. I was just exhausted from before and it dredged up too much. I'd ended up where I caught him on my computer shortly after he moved in with me - and the e-mail to someone else talking about his fiance, his job (which he didn't have here), etc. etc. a bunch of lies. but then I ended up swallowing his rationalizations.
So, I put it behind me and gave him the benefit of the doubt. Things were going along alright and he said he wasn't using the computer. Except once I had to come back to the house - and he didn't expect me and there he was - on the computer. another night i went to take a shower, he thought i was safely behind the door, and i had to pop out for something, and there he was again - surprised look - on the computer. i could see an entire screen of text, went over, and just caught the tail end of a letter "glad you're doing good" with the closing "love (and the woman's name". he quickly deleted it. again, my mind and heart fell to the floor -i asked him who that was. he said "what?". i said the letter on the screen from her?
he proceeded for an entire hour to tell me he didn't know what i was talking about - that there had been nothing there - opened up his e-mail to show me there was nothing there (of course not, he just erased it). i pleaded for an hour for the truth - i told him i wasn't dumb and blind! finally, finally, he said "okay, he had gone out with her, she had been his fiance, but it was over, and that's why he wanted to get away from his state and leave it all behind". i couldn't figure out why he wouldn't have told me that, if he wanted a "real relationship with me".
the next thing i did - was to e-mail a friend he had back home (i was clever enough to look over his shoulder for this person's address, etc. and he had sent for some stuff from her - and told me about her - how they were friends).
wanting to get some answers - i just e-mailed her and told her what he was doing and if she could please give me some straight answers, woman to woman. (turned out this woman was a Godsend for me afterwards - she validated everything )
I wrote to ask if he was just a womanizer, crazy, mixed up or what? she wrote back "you answered your own questions, take care of yourself". that was all. then i saw an e-mail to him from her shortly after that saying "i don't know what you're doing in ___, but leave me the hell out of it". well, i still wasn't convinced exactly what she meant. i told him i'd written to her - i don't lie and wanted him to know. he looked a little green, but quickly recovered. then i rationalized her return note in many ways - maybe she was jealous, maybe she meant he really was serious about me, she just hadn't gone into too much detail - but now i realize that she went into enough for a person not caught up with a P. would have heeded her advice. i didn't, not yet.
i was still trying. one night he came home and confessed he'd done something that day where he worked for this woman who raised dogs. he said he got her to delete all his e-mail accounts except the one i had so i didn't have to worry about that anymore. (i later found out that she did NOTin fact have a computer hooked up, so that was a lie!!). but i believed it at the time.
so things went on. he was selling his puppies from my house. and then talked of us going on vacation after the last one was gone. something i was looking forward to.
that day came, on a thurs. he talked of leaving monday for a vacation -we'd get away. it also happened to be my birthday (monday). he kept asking what i wanted. etc.
then i remembered a couple weeks before there had been a message on my machine from the place where he worked telling him that they'd give him off that day - no problem. at the time i thought he was taking off because it was my birthday. how sweet!
anyway, i came home on a friday afternoon, expecting to go to dinner that night, because he said we would - and he had vanished. i had absolutely not an inkling that he was doing this. it was unbelievable. he just cleaned out - everything. (not anything of mine, thank God - i was lucky). but he disappeared into thin air.
i was devastated. i called where he'd been working and they said they knew 2 wks. ago he was taking a trip to __ and had asked for the time off. the other woman he worked for knew it a couple days before me - and he was telling them he'd be back in a week. he did leave a note - to me - saying he'd return in a couple weeks to take an apt. and continue seeing me - and by the way, sorry, he did it that way - but he did (his words). that was the beginning of the hell of having become involved with a P. and having this person just leave. just vanish. like a criminal. that hurt unbelievably. he just wasn't human. so, then it was the beginning of my education about P's. and this one in particular - and the pieces and lies would start slowly falling into place - but not before i worked through the shock and hurt. i have to go now - but will post how i found out what he was and some of the cruel things he did after leaving. to this day - i've not heard anything from him. but did keep in touch with that friend of his - and derived some crucial answers and back-up and comfort from her.

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#1228 - 01/14/03 02:38 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


P-proof
I am happy that you are back and I have not abandon your decision to tell the story.

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#1229 - 01/14/03 05:14 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


finished,
I'm finally starting to get better. It was the worst flu I can remember having. Hope you feel better soon.
betterway

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#1230 - 01/15/03 08:18 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


dear hopeful - thanks for the welcome back. i just became very depressed over christmas and having dredged all of the stuff back up certainly added to it. but to continue the story - he vanished into thin air. i thought for sure he would call or just show up again that night, or the next. i couldn't believe a person could do that. even a friend of mine said - "well maybe he just got some cold feet - don't panic". but normal people don't just up and vanish. and he was so good at it - i had NO CLUE. i was at work that day and he must have quickly got a u-haul (or most likely he already had it planned of course) - and he methodically went through the house - took all of his stuff which was scattered here and there, loaded up his dogs, and poof. i wish i had surmised. he got up that friday, business as usual, kissed me goodbye to go to work, said he "loved" me - see ya later - it was unreal.
that's when i started calling the places he worked to get some answers. i asked the woman he was working for if we could talk to see if she knew something. that's when i found out that she didn't have a computer hooked up.
a couple days later one of the couples who had taken a puppy - left a message on my answer machine to tell me that THE P HAD CALLED THEM to tell them he got called away on emergency and couldn't watch their pup while they were on vacation, which he had said he'd do that weekend. they called me in desperation. i called back and naturally was upset - but since i only had the man's work # -i called there and he would not talk to me. (later figured out that the P must have told them some fantastic story about how nuts i was). the man never would talk to me - told his secretary to tell me he wasn't in - because one day i called and he pointedly asked the sec. to ask me where i was calling from....etc...!!!
meanwhile - i had the P's e-mail address and had the wherewithall to e-mail him and sound as if everything was fine on my end and expected him back. he wrote back as if all was fine - but said since he'd left some things had happened and they were not good. i wrote back, concerned -
and then in the next e-mail he tells me this fantastic story about how he got a call about his brother having a massive heart attack in and having to drive and fly there - and it was a nightmare - but he was out of danger now etc. etc. and he still had every intention of returning to continue to see me. this was all e-mail stuff. then a couple weeks after that the couple with the puppy leaves a message on my a.m. - and she was so concerned - because the P HAD ONCE AGAIN CALLED THEM - TO TELL THEM THE SAME STORY ABOUT HIS BROTHER- and the wife just wanted to find out how he was doing!! (this is the same woman, who when they came there to get the pup, he was obviously flirting with in front of my face - when they left, the two of them embraced and kissed like long-lost friends - i had thought that was a bit odd - but, hey)
So, he can't call me but he's calling these other people!!!!
And to back up a bit - that next week the one with my birthday (yeah, that was a HAPPY BIRTHDAY) - i was off from work all week. but unknown to me, until after the fact, he had sent an e-mail to my work on my birthday BERATING me for calling the woman he worked for after he vanished, asking me "why would you do such a thing?". and further - he told me that he had got up that morning - went to see her because they were starting to have feelings for each other and he wanted to take some time to think about it!
I mean, a person has to work at being that evil!!! or maybe not!
(later i found out from the woman i had written to that she knew his family and his brother never had a heart attack!! - surprise, surprise, plus some other stuff she hadn't told me in so many words. that she had dated him until she realized she couldn't believe any thing he said. that he was always sponging off some woman - that he was back down there with the one i caught him e-mailing to, etc.and she added more than once - to thank God he was gone out of my life)
meanwhile, my mind was blown to bits, not to mention my heart. in the aftermath, of trying to figure it all out and digest it - i started calling him a psychopath - not knowing at that time what a true P was. then in my need to find answers and explanations - i just typed psychopath into the computer one day and hit search. i got the definition and read "Without Conscience" first - and then started to get some clarification. i was right on by calling him a P. so that was the beginning of my education about P's. and somewhere along the line i found this site - and read and read and read - i have reams of the stories i copied off of here - and i'd go home and read and read - and was just amazed. at the similarities and actions of a true P.
the other thing i had the sense to do after he vanished was to change my credit cards etc., at the urging of a friend.
meanwhile i was trying to hold it together - but finally went to see a counselor, who told me i was very lucky - that he was gone and nothing worse had happened. they seemed to know about P's - but were focusing on just getting past it and moving on - but that was impossible for awhile. this site helped the most. most of my friends were empathetic, but a couple weren't. one woman's attitude was "just get over it". but when i told her the details of it all - she couldn't believe it and said that she thought it was just another "well, you met somebody and it didn't work out - big deal" type thing - but she was more empathetic after that. i ended up losing a couple long time friends over the whole thing - but have come to realize that they weren't really friends anyway.
it's been a hard road to travel - and it's marked a turning pt. in my life, like none other.
in the aftermath too - i was scared - and felt violated. if a person could just up and vanish - what exactly were they capable of? i half expected him to be lurking in the area afterwards. i didn't know whether he had 3 wives across the country, or if he had been running from the law, and most frightening of all - i wondered if he had transmitted some disease to me. it took me some time to get up the nerve to see a doctor and have tests - that was the lowest of the low days in my life. and then the waiting after that.
and i went through the times of wanting him to come back, hoping it would all turn out anyway, that he certainly would come back - all the thoughts that you think about a normal person's reactions. that it was just some big mistake and that he was real.
well, that is my story. i'm recovering enough to where it doesn't occupy every waking thought. and i'm far enough removed that the hurt is subsiding. but it's still the most unbelievable experience i've had (and i seemed to attract the bad ones in the past - alcoholics, etc.) - but this was so different. it's hard to comprehend that they are not human. well, i'll end this for now. other details will pop up and i'll share when i can. my counselor had said "well, you won't have to do that one again - the P experience". in a lot of ways it's made me stronger, made me look at my life and my relationships. and my health. because this whole experience compromised my physical health too. i got so stressed out, and stress does awful things to a body. i'm still not recovered from that. but hopefully, time will heal it all.
thank you for listening. i got my story out and hope i can help other people somehow now. all i can say is that no one should ever give another person the power to destroy their lives, their sanity, their health. NO ONE IN THE WORLD IS WORTH COMPROMISING YOUR OWN LIFE. FOR WHAT? ROMANCE? LOVE? SOCIETY'S EXPECTATIONS OF SUCH? WHAT YOU PERCEIVE AS LOVE? PSYCHOPATHS ARE THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE. IT'S A SHAME - WOMEN, ESP., GET PUT IN THESE POSITIONS AND ARE RIPE FOR A P WHEN THEY ARE VULNERABLE. I WAS VULNERABLE - AND HE KNEW IT AND ZEROED RIGHT IN. BY READING ON THIS SITE - THE ENTIRE PERPETRATION BECAME CLEARER AND CLEARER TO ME.
well, i could tend to run on and on, but i'll close for now. again, thanks for listening and the crucial help i've derived from here over the past few months.

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#1231 - 01/15/03 09:29 AM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Freedsom
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you on the PDST. . .I have had much trouble with my computer and then got the flu. I see that Dianne answered your question for you. I've been reading your posts freedom. . .I know you are trying. . .It's hard. . .I know.
Blessings
finished

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#1232 - 01/15/03 09:33 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway. . .
Same here. today i feel slightly better. . .I really get depressed when I'm sick. (to much time to think). Hopefully will post later. . .
finished

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#1233 - 01/15/03 06:47 PM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
again all those similarities
those guys are like a race
of men acting exactly alike
sounds so much like my x-p
whom i gave in again monday night

he is with another women
i told him
i would not have nothing to do with him
i do not want to hurt his new lady

but i gave in to his demand
i was missing him a lot

i know he is just using her
he is driving her sport car
he has the use of her cell phone
he already got a ticket for speeding 60 in a 35
he tells me she is bipolar and she just lost her husband
which could be a total lie
because he lies a lot

i was thinking about those guys in other countries
where the women gets some part of their body cut off
and can have many wives and even so very young
i might sound out of range here
but i was really thinking about all those women
in other countries how hard it must be for them to put up with those men

and here i am putting up with p
in a free country

freeddumbb







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#1234 - 01/15/03 06:51 PM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
i forgot to mention
that he is still asking me to marry him
and i say no thank you
i know you would marry me just to use my car
and my telephone

freedumb

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#1235 - 01/16/03 08:25 PM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


P-Proof

You started posting about the time I went on vacation and then my computer crashed. I have been following your story and appreciate your candor and willingess to share. The P experience is devestating (understatment). I know that mine has changed me forever. I strive to make it change me into a better and more aware person. It has given me great empathy for other women who have suffered at the hands of a P. Something I only could give lip service to before. My goal is to learn how not to be a victim ever again.
I am glad you are with us as well as some other new names I see here.
This forum saved my life. Truly! It was the validation and support plus kind words to encourage me to seek help and take baby steps AND NO CONTACT. We are fortunate to have each other here. Even though I don't see faces, I feel the connection and bond of the heart.

Finished

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#1236 - 01/17/03 01:29 AM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
Well i was a winner tonight
i took a baby step
with the help of many ladies friend

p came to look for me at the club
where there is a lot of dancing
i love dancing
he was asking for me (he is bared from this club)
so he was asking for me me moi
but i knew that he was just showing off
his (i mean hers) fancy car
if he wanted to be with me
he would have called earlier
to tell me that he wanted to be with me
but no he just wanted to tease me
he just wanted me to see how good looking
he looks in his new lady's car

my friends kept me busy dancing
so i would not go out there
but i did not feel like going where he was
because he is only a figment of my imagination
he is a tease
for a foolish woman that i am

thank you so much for being here

freedom tonight


Edited by freedom (01/17/03 01:34 AM)

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#1237 - 01/17/03 06:57 AM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
now why doesn't he call me
just to tell me he loves me
he can even leave a message

fact just the fact
i gotta stick with the fact
there is nothing there
but fantasy land
and yes he hasn't gone anywhere yet
so it was another lie
aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

freedom

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#1238 - 01/17/03 09:45 AM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Freedom: I'm sorry to hear you "stumbled" - but you're human - and the P isn't. Don't beat yourself up. Be strong. The disentaglement takes time - one step at a time. And they know just how to stick their foot in and trip you up. I know what you're saying about the plight of some women in other countries - it's horrifying. And here we are with freedom to not get involved with P's. And we still do. Please hang in there - take care of you. P's have nothing to offer - but mirages, smoke and mirrors.
Let Freedom Ring!!!

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#1239 - 01/17/03 10:10 AM Re: My Story
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear Finished: I wanted to share because everyone on here has helped me so much too. Thank you! I know for awhile that I wanted to keep some kind of contact with the P - and I also wanted revenge somehow. He made himself "uncontactable", except through e-mail. I finally made myself stop that - because everytime I'd log on the computer I started shaking. There was always that hope there in my heart that he was normal and I'd get some kind of normal reaction to it all. One counselor said as long as I continued the contact - I was still in his game.
The more I read about P's and how evil they can be - I became frightened and didn't and still don't know exactly what he'd do. As far as revenge - I did try that - by contacting the person I knew he was living with, via anonymous e-mail. I got a reply but think it was actually him responding. And then I started getting porno junk mail on my computer - and had never ever had anything like that. I know he did it. When he was using my computer at my house - on his own accounts - and I opened the one up that he told me about - I found all kinds of porno. And I even found he had put a personal ad in a Russian Meet-A-Bride site, while professing his love for me!! Unbelievable. I recently rented the movie "Birthday Girl" because it was about a lonely man in England, who met a Russian woman on a site - and had her fly to England to meet him. That's a movie I'd recommend about P's. Only this one was a woman with a couple P men. I couldn't help but hope that my P would order one of these Russian women and have the same experience - at least in the first half of the movie. I didn't think it would end positively -but things in movies do most times.
Anyway, keep strong - this experience does have a silver lining of making us more aware and taking better care of our own lives. Although now I am totally afraid of getting near anyone ever again. And I guess that's alright too. I just can't go down those roads anymore. Even though I'd like to have a good person (man) in my life. But I have a couple other good people in my life - friends to the end, I hope.
Yes, I feel that connection to the people I've "talked" to on this forum too. Thank you all! Be good to yourselves.

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#1240 - 01/17/03 09:29 PM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Freedom

It is such a game with him isn't it? It is like he is trying to deliberately torment you driving around in his new ladys car in a place where you would be sure to see him. I can only imagine your emotional devestation Freedom. I know you want him to love you.. . .his treatment of you is dispicable. I know how that feels, I have been treated that way also. Sometimes it takes awhile to really really get it. I know it was that way for me. Keep at it sister friend. . .you'll get over this P experience if you don't quit!
Blessings
finished

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#1241 - 02/03/03 04:38 AM Re: My Story
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
I would prefer to be able to forget but the ramifications keep going on. The P stirs up the trouble - maybe a drop in the ocean, but ripples keeps moving out, gathering pace until we are left facing a storm fronted by the people being manipulated by the P, directly, or even 2, 4, 6 ripples down the track.


I can't face starting another writeup so I have edited a file I prepared a while ago. It gives some of the story and some of the misery etc. with a lot taken out so I hope it makes some kind of sense

I hope attaching it will work.

rcovery

obviously did not want to attachemy ramblings - Dianne any suggestions - it was a 6 page word document?


Attachments
(93 downloads)



Edited by recovery (02/03/03 05:04 AM)

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#1242 - 02/03/03 09:18 AM Re: My Story [Re: recovery]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi recovery, maybe it is too large for the system. I will adjust the amount the system can handle. Please try again and if that doesn't work please let me know.

Thanks
Di

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#1243 - 02/03/03 01:06 PM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
oh Finished
i am climbing that moutain and
i don't want to fall anymore
with all of you in this group
your hands are pulling me so strong
even the silence is peaceful
we know where we are
in unison
the truth shall set us free

i am so weak
and yet i will be strong

freedom
it is all my imagination
there is nothing there
it is all a drama on television
accross the street
in a window
i see the person
who it is happening
it is not me
i want to come out
from the veil of deceit

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#1244 - 02/03/03 03:14 PM Re: My Story
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
"I know you want him to love you.. . .his treatment of you is dispicable."

No i do not want him to love me

but he keeps saying he does
trying to prove it to me
by calling my husband
coming to my job
and when i give in after a month of it
he is nice the first meeting
and after that he tears me apart
or he'll be with another woman
so he can have a laugh
at me coming back
i know the guy doesn't love me
but he begs me so much to come around
and i love him
so i go
but no more going back


before he went to rehab
he did visit the girlfriend he had before me
in 98
she told him to hit the road

when my lady friend told me he called her yesterday
my stomach was churning
and now i have to admit
everytime the phone rings
i wonder if it is him
and i do not want it be that way
i want peace
peace that surpasses all understanding
this morning at work
i kept thinking how i will react when i see him
how the body goes in a wild transformation
you'all know what i'm talking about

well i don't want those feeling anymore
i just want to dance
like i was before i met him
just having a good time
with everybody
just dancing all night long
until it is time to go home
and take care of my family
my family are ok with me going out
they understand i need to get out the house
and it is ok to dance and meet people
but no more p

freedom
i can see these helping hands slapping me in the face
"wake up freedom, wake up"







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#1245 - 02/04/03 01:53 AM Re: My Story [Re: recovery]
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
I will try again to attach the document - maybe it does not want to be told - it is so horrifying to know how totally gullible I was - now I trust no-one.

recovery


Attachments
(87 downloads)


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#1246 - 02/04/03 04:51 AM Re: My Story [Re: recovery]
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Gave up on attaching so have just dumped it on the screen Met 1994
Initially ‘P’ seemed to be a social drinker, not heavy he did not seem dependent on alcohol. He had told me a variety of stories about his life and what he did. He said he had been married but his wife had died. Said he’d been all over the world in the army and then had worked his way up offshore. He spoke about places, people and events in great detail and with great clarity but the timings were vague. He had no friends - no contacts from the past except for AM who I found out about later. No photos, very little personal effects, no-one to verify his version of the past. I thought all this, combined with his description of his past, very puzzling – he seemed such a strange mixture that I was curious to find out what it all meant (I still am – as his life and behaviour is certainly not easy to unravel nor understand).

I moved in rather too quickly – partly because I was homeless since moving back from London and not enjoying having to stay with my parents at my age, partly because he did seem so nice, caring and attentive. Soon found out that his wife had not died. He said he had been married but she had been no good and had an affair with his best man (whom I have since traced and spoke to and who has denied this. He confirms his ex-wife’s family’s views that ‘P’ bad used her etc). Then said he had been engaged to AM who lived along the street and it was her sister who had died. I kept trying to understand why he made up/altered facts and accepted his excuse that he said things initially to impress me and then did not know how to come clean. (this was another continuous pattern – if found out about one thing he would come clean with the truth, and appear to be really sincere and earnest yet at some later stage I would be given a different version. Even his ‘making amend’s confession letters when he was supposed to be following the AA 10 step programme and coming clean about his past were more or less fictitious but he was so convincing it was hard to do other than believe him)

He was always great when we were together – which initially was all the time. He would talk of his low self esteem and fear of being alone and it was easy to keep feeling sorry for him and the way life had treated him. I started work March 1994 – saw the drinker and left because of the violence. Now I saw why AM said she was scared of the drunk ‘P’. He was like a different person – throwing things, punching the walls, threatening and the verbal abuse was very scary. He was not working. He said he had been at college but did not go back after xmas. He was now on disability benefit due to back problems caused by an accident offshore (He finally admitted in 1998 that there had been no accident – he said he did hurt his back in a drunken fall – but I’m not even sure about that) There was no signs of any back problems - especially when he was threatening to kick doors down etc.

By this time I had been told the story of his childhood and the abuse he suffered (again my subsequent research has shown that this is mostly made up or someone else’s truth). He sounds like a lost and tormented little boy when he talks about this – and it was always this side of him that made me feel so sorry for him and be talked into giving him another chance – until the next episode. He also made out that AM had not given him enough support, that she put her family and job first etc. (Again from talking to her this year this is not true – she also felt totally responsible for him and life revolved around him and trying to keep him happy)

Hours and hours spent about setting limits – trying to support him while getting him to understand that I could not accept the lies, the intimidation, the fear etc. (This is another recurring pattern – which always had the focus on ‘P’- I believe now he does not mind if it is good or bad attention as long as he is at the centreHe also had said he had a low sperm count and could not have children, and as I had long since stopped the pill, we would not need contraception. (Later found out he was talking about his brother and used this as an excuse as he has a real hatred about wearing condoms) He went to Alcohol– I thought he could – he is very intelligent, artistic, appears sensitive and caring. Like his previous girlfriend I thought he was great when sober and evil when drinking.
At counselling he would say that he had a bad childhood, his parents had physically abused him, his dad was hardly there as he was a lorry driver and when at home he would be in the pub. His mother left when he was 7 and he never saw her again. Before she left he said she had beaten him up and he had been hospitalised. He said she had thrown his baby brother across the road to his father. Then his granny brought him up – he said she was abusive to him and only cared for the baby. He said his hair was cut short and his clothes different and he was bullied at school. His father had remarried and gone to live in Grimsby taking his brother but he was 15 and stayed here. He joined the navy at 15 and left after a year as he was homesick. Then he joined the army and left after a year as he hated being told what to do.

(I traced his mother– she said his father was a drunk and a womaniser who beat her up. Said she was firm with ‘P’ and disciplined him for stealing but never hospitalised him. When she left and remarried she had another child within a year. I don’t understand how she could just turn her back on her first 2 children but it fits with ‘P’’s style of doing things. I also spoke to his brother who said he knew ‘P’ had a troubled childhood but he did not know the details. He said his father would have nothing to do with him and was not in touch with him for the years up till his death. His brother had been out of touch but ‘P’ would get in touch ever so often. AM had said that when she had tried to leave ‘P’ he had got his brother up to convince her to stay – a bit like how he got his AA sponsor round to try and convince me to stay in 1997. His bother always seemed to treat ‘P’ like a child – encouraging him and praising him for doing well again this is something I found myself doing without even realising it.)

I paid for everything. I locked him out – he tried to kick the door down, I let him in to stop the fuss – he smashed some pictures and slapped me – then the anger dissipated and the little boy came back and I still could not refuse another chance. I got pregnant in September – 9 months after we met, R was born 6 weeks premature. Every few months ‘P’ would have a binge and I’d plan to leave. I never stayed if he’d been drinking as I am scared rigid of the anger and violence in him. I felt I had no choice but work – ‘P’ manipulated me into the “poor ‘P’ will feel guilty if I don’t accept the job and then he might drink and I would not like that”.

I arranged for my sister in law to child mind full-time – I would never leave ‘P’ with R. When our daughter -R was little he was supposed to be working full time. (Reality was that he had already started his business fraud – I did not find out till last year as I was so convinced he took this chance seriously – all he wanted was the image and the time to con and manipulate other people). He did the AA etc and seemed to be maturing. By now I was fixed on the sober = nice, kind, truthful and drunk = vicious, evil liar. If he kept sober I thought he could mature and he had a chance. As a sign of my faith, I poured money into his business, his driving lessons etc.

His AA meetings were 4 -5 times a week excluding afternoon ones, he worked weekends or was at quarries (or told me that). I worked part-time and Sally child minded – he was never there more than a few hours and did not have any role with R – how could he have until he had proved he really could be trusted. Went to psychiatrist with him – and the same stories were told – ‘P’ diagnosed as depressed and given anti-depressants and antabuse. I decided he could have the flat and I would buy a small house for myself and R

He seemed to really start taking his work and the AA seriously. He wrote long letters as part of the 10 steps telling me with ‘real truth’ of his past. But I really though we could be a family if he gained confidence and lost his chip on the shoulder about the past – his mother leaving, him, being abused, having no family, being the victim – and I felt so sorry for the past as he told it . I know now that the frequent meetings, leaving earlier from home etc was not for us, not for him to give back something to the AA but for him to get more attention. ‘P’ gave many lifts, then started an affair with Su early 1997. Su has now confirmed this started in Jan 1997 – before R was ill so he can’t even give lack of attention to him as an excuse. He started a new, sober life which was total lies and deception. When I complained about the time he spent out I was accused of being suspicious and jealous. He had to put AA first. It was not social. He had to go in the afternoon too. Often had to go to town on ‘business’ – all down to Su and others. Now I know the tone used when lying, I can see where I went so badly wrong. I did not believe he could or would blatantly lie to me - not after all the endless discussions about honesty and trust and how there could be no real relationship nor proper family without this. Nothing is ever ‘P’’s fault. Again my gut feeling kept churning away – but he appeared to be doing and saying all the right things so why could I not trust him, this in turn led me to feel so guilty. ‘P’ was expert at picking up on that and turning this round to make me feel worse.

Up until August 1997 ‘P’ was supposed to be working fulltime in the portacabin – he was not involved in house work or in looking after R. (I have since found out that he was hardly ever at work – same pattern again – he would phone me and then disappear for a couple of hours and then phone me on his return. I always put all the calls down to his insecurity but it was just creating smokescreens. We decided to move house –and to get somewhere ‘P’ could work from When we moved in 1997 I was persuaded that I should let his name be on the house – sign of faith etc – he would never claim R’s home as he knew he’d come into our marriage with debts and I had put so much into his business etc, he would never try and take from R. Even so my former savings were steadily dwindling. (This was during the affairs and after he had started the fraud with business – we were just another victim of his pattern of getting everything provided by someone – ‘P’ should not have to work unless it is something he wants to do -he would say or do anything to keep his ‘poor ‘P’ ‘ image. By now he and B. were ‘best friends’ and he had him and his wife round to help convince me it was not true – she was lying. I went through hell again but he stuck rigidly to the story he had been naïve in trying to be a friend to her, trying to help someone – been too trusting. How he’d taken her to and from AA meetings, that was all.
I could not believe he could or would be sober and lie so much. He was 99% convincing in his explanation although I kept trying to trip him up because my gut instinct said no-one would make all this up. But B. was at the same meetings and he believed him. As ‘P’ reminded me, I had said that as long as he was sober we could always work things out. I could not catch him out and we started another endless session of talking about ‘P’. I made it clear that fidelity was tied in with honesty – he swore on R’s life, not only to me, that he was being truthful. That gave me a horrible feeling since I still did not trust him and I made him promise not to swear anything on her life. . But gut instinct still gnawed – why when ‘P’ was being the model reformed drinker, was all this happening?

At this time R started to play up at bedtime – again I always took care of her if I was not at work and she had never got into such states. ‘P’ convinced me it was the terrible twos, that she was always perfect for him etc, I also thought it was due to the time I had to focus on ‘P’ again about Su etc – I now believe it was due to something else related to ‘P’. He now had R for a morning a week and he was left to get her ready for Granny’s when I went to work. This was the start of his involvement with her care. We had endless discussions about that – could he do it, did he want to, did he know how to etc - and as usual he convinced me he could. He knew what to do – he always was seen to do the right thing when I was there but as I now know it is when left alone that ‘P’ can never be trusted.

She also started saying she was good with secrets, sometimes she said she did not like her self. I was starting to get concerned since I had to start fulltime work in 1998 and ‘P’ would be doing 2 mornings with R unless Granny did extra or I had flexi-leave. She started not wanting to hug or kiss him and did not want ‘P’ near at bedtime – I believe because of what was happening after I left for work. I feel so guilty because ‘P’ was so meek as usual and I thought ‘poor ‘P’’ and tried to insist that she should respond to him when he left and kiss him goodbye. I had 2 weeks holiday at xmas and R soon settled down again. When I started back at work things seemed OK with her.

R was still at my parents 3 days a week and playgroup 2 afternoons a week. I was offered a full time job which I had to take as our outgoings were still so high and my savings still dwindling. I was constantly tired, still suspicious, guilty about being suspicious etc.but all the time trying to make sure it didn’t show on R. But of course every one of these events focussed all the attention on ‘P’ and I had realised he needed that as much as ever – no matter what the implications on R.

Throughout 1998 ‘P’ was ‘ill’ – though only one of these, in August – seemed genuine – the others seemed to come and go depending how much attention he wanted and what else he wanted to do. It was also a way of stopping questions about what was really going on – with R, his business, etc. Generally it was sore back, neck, knees etc. He would come home with medicine, supports, walking sticks – use them for 1-2 days then leave them. Still able to go to quarries, climb cliffs, hammer rock faces whenever he wanted. Now I was also feeling guilty because part of me doubted that the ‘illnesses’ were real.

Always there was the underlying threat that if he was not happy, he would get more depressed and that might lead to drinking and I would not like that – so we all dished out more sympathy to poor ‘P’ and tried to work harder so he could do less – me with my work, the house and R and spending more time listening to ‘P’ about ‘P’ and trying to boost his confidence. (I now realise his confidence was sky high – he knew what he was really doing but convinced that he could get away with it – and as said as long as he was centre stage it did not matter what was being said.)

At work ‘P’ was always on the phone to me – (Now I have seen the phone pattern I realise it was because he wanted to be free to phone whoever he was using at the time – the phone pattern is not normal, is repeated with different people and also shows his basic neglect of R). In March he wanted a mobile phone for his birthday – and I got him one. Then he wanted to trade in his volvo for a Maverick. During the summer I could not shake the feeling of distrust and most weekends R and I would follow him to the craft fairs –I often took Sa with me if she had not gone to the craft fair B. was doing. If he was not doing a craft fair then they would go to see ‘P’. While I was looking out for the other women I was often taking her to him myself (their affair started in May 1998 with a few days overlap on the phone with Ni). Gut instinct again – but as usual over ridden by ‘P’’s convincing responses – he looked and sounded so convincing. During the holiday I watched them but couldn’t catch them.

By now R is growing from a toddler to a girl. She is bright and learning fast. She had been happy all year but at the end of the year she stopped wanting to kiss ‘P’ again – absolutely refused. She occasionally sucked her thumb which she had never previously done. She would kiss people all over, talk about boobies and try to find hers. She would cling to me and not want me to go back to work at lunchtime. If she wasn’t awake when I left for work ‘P’ would phone up with her in tears – I was worried but convinced myself it was only a ‘phase’. Then she had a period of nightmares most nights but it seemed to settle- again when I was on holiday at Xmas. Sa said they stopped the affair in october because of my suspicions. The strange behaviour from R increased from October until the xmas holidays when she settled again. Sa said they resumed the affair in January 1999. I believe this was to keep ‘P’ was from R. But I don’t think he could and that is why her behaviour started to change again. More nightmares, talk about peaspouts (penis), not wanting Dad near at bedtime, sucking her thumb, refusing to go to the toilet alone (generally only our toilet was a problem)

He was now turning my suspicions about Sa and Su against me - but with a new viciousness – how could he ever feel good about himself if I did not trust him – anything that went wrong would lead to my lack of trust, did not I know what this was doing to his low self esteem. So my guilt trip continued and my suspicions continued. He seems so honest, so convincing. If he was lying then he would be deliberately setting out to undermine me, make me lose all confidence in myself and my judgement and that was hard to believe from someone like ‘poor ‘. I felt more like a mother than a wife. He wants and gets more and more money – I’m getting concerned at the state of my savings.

February. ‘P’ says he is getting depressed, he is close to drinking – its my fault as I am suspicious of him and he has never done anything wrong, says he is working his pan out at his business 7 days a week – yet he has not done a thing all year.
He was using conversations he had used when I first met him when he was drinking but I had now taken the part of AM – in not supporting him, trusting him etc. These were word for word, chip-on the shoulder repeat conversations which quite unnerved me.

March . I was more and more concerned about his mental state. He still had done no work, yet implied he worked 7 days a week, he said he was doing the house work and doing all the child minding – yet R was at Grannies nearly every day, he still wanted more and more money and was still back to the old chip on the shoulder conversations where nothing is ‘P’’s fault and everyone is against him.

15/3/99
R started nursery. We had visitors from America for tea then ‘P’ walked out saying he could not stay because I had changed and he knew I did not trust him and how could he keep his self esteem when I still thought he had been unfaithful etc. He was white with rage and very abusive – it was like the drunk ‘P’ but without alcohol. He said he would be back in the morning to take R to nursery. I said that I could not trust him with R and he went right over the top – ( I meant that I was worried about his irrational behaviour, I now realise that ‘P’ thought I was talking about abuse, once I read the ‘report’ prepared for the children’s reporter I saw I was write – he states that I suspected abuse early in the year – again to me this is another admission of the truth and an explanation of what happened next.) When he left I phoned Sa – I thought he might have gone with her but she had just had a phone call from him saying he was leaving. I was still thinking in terms of poor ‘P’ – he might have a drink, and wondering what to do.

When he came back he was calmer in the morning. I had R up and ready and thought it would be best to let him take her and again try and support him. He said he was going to stay with Nina and Les – which I thought odd as I did not know he had been in touch with them that year. I also asked him if Audrey was involved (He had mentioned her name, though implied she was with someone. If there is one thing I know it is that ‘P’ cannot be on his own – he has to have someone to support and keep him) Again I bit my tongue as I wanted to say that all I did was support him and be responsible for him and run circles round him – but I thought I’d better not as ‘poor ‘P’’ would not like that and I did not want him flying off to alcohol.

Over the next few weeks he was alternatively wild and irrational and then calm and apologeticR was unconcerned at his absence and seemed to actually be more settled – her fear of the toilet etc gradually stopped.
At the end of the 2nd week he said he’d changed his mind, he could make a go of things and on the day off I had insisted in going to town with me – I thought he was more rational so I agreed he would try and gave him more money. He still had done no work. Mum and Dad doing all the childminding nearly. Counselling– he lied all through and when we came out he was white with rage ‘cos I made a joke saying I wouldn’t stay married to a [censored] like that’ – but he really seemed to believe himself. I got more abuse at the second session – I said it was obvious there was no basis for a marriage and obviously never had been. We left the session and outside he changed back to smiles – wanted a coffee and asked how much I’d given him – explained I’d nothing to give. But he insisted I should as he would be on his own and would need money

Eventually agreed to empty the Tessa Account and give it to him. Also pay £500 per month - but this would have been extremely difficult for me to do. ‘P’ drew up the separation document which initially said joint residence of R – that’s when I saw a solicitor to see what this meant – I refused to sign it. Then I said I’d agree to contact but with conditions relating to alcohol etc. ‘P’ said he would see her at my home but maybe sometime in the future he could take her out for the day. There was no way I’d agree to him taking her away for the day. I still thought he was totally irrational – still rewriting our life together and expecting me to believe it. I could not sign the document while it gave him unrestricted access to R. R was not at all bothered by his absence. Never mentioned him the week we were on holiday.

He even blamed my lack of trust and concerns about his affairs as the real reason for the break-up when talking to the counsellor – he was white with rage and screaming that he had never been unfaithful. I still thought I must be imagining some of it as surely no-one could be so convincing while lying – but he is. But by now, Elf rumours confirmed, I’d realised how much money he’d got this year and how I would be struggling to give him more money – what about R’s future if I had no job, what about her needs, etc. Then I realised he did not care about R – only himself. At this point the threats became more sinister and made in front of R so I said he had 2 days to move out.

Over the next couple of days ‘P’ phoned to ask about money – not R. By the 15th I had been told that his affair with Su was true – this devastated me – since he had denied it for 2 years and turned it on me by saying I should trust him and never believed him. It was when R was ill and I needed support. When he should have been building up his business, when he used the AA for a front – when he’d finally got his name on the house – the total deceit of the last 4 years – after all he’d put me and R through with alcohol – devastated me – Not Audrey/Sa.

I realised alcohol was a smokescreen– he’d conned me 100% the entire marriage in a very well thought out and premeditated manner.
On the 15th he phoned to ask about money – he was even more aggressive – I said he could only see R if it was supervised – he agreed and I said no more money – not because of Audrey but because of the total charade and how he’d used both myself and R – he’d never intended to ever try and support us. I said I knew everything. When I said no money – he flipped. I was scared – enough to ensure I left the keys in the locks (he still had his) and check the windows – all unlocked. (Security light discovered later)

I went to bed and as I went to close the curtains I saw him at end of drive and watched him move into shadows then along the wall – when he was below me I shouted ‘‘P’ I see you – I’ve phoned the police’ – then did the same out the back – but no longer saw him – I was the most frightened I’d ever been and wouldn’t let the police hang up until the car arrived. They said my mistake was shouting the warning – but I could not risk letting him get in. He had no car – he was going to really keep me quiet and R too. It sounds far-fetched when compared to the ‘poor ‘P’’ image but it was cold, deliberate, planned – for money I assume (Elf life insurance). Before he had left the previous day he went round and unlocked every window, he took my workshop key so I could not touch the security light and he had left R’s car seat. It is very significant that he left he car seat – if he was the caring father he said why would he have even thought of leaving the seat. This was the part I could not understand, why was he going to harm both of us– now I do, he thought I knew about the abuse then, he thought he was cornered and was going to save himself. When he was threatening me that afternoon he was totally unconcerned when I said he could not see R unless it was supervised. He was only concerned about money. I told him I knew everything – then he got really angry – but I meant the other women – I did not know what I was going to discover next. It also explains why he suddenly became so involved with M and her husband since March – of course I had not put it all together at that time as I still thought of him as ‘poor ‘P’’. I have no doubt A. believes he was the housekeeper/childminder/business man etc – but I knew the truth.
‘P’ admitted the affairs and prowling on phone on Monday 17/5/99 Then saw TV about recognising signs of child abuse and went ‘ R did that and that’. Distraught – talked to GP, PPP Healthline, Domestic Violence Officer, Marriage Conseller etc – no one said it couldn’t be right but counsellor said ‘he has no boundaries, no sense or care and responsibility, can’t make normal relationships ……….’.

But with all the discoveries I had just made about every aspect of our lives I was pretty upset and I was not sure what action to take. I decided to go with that of the GP. She said that as ‘P’ was not having contact and that it would be an ordeal for R to go through it would be best for her to not take it farther then. I got the impression that there was something about his medical record which I did not know to do with his psychiatric history. I set about to find out the truth about ‘P’ and spent as much time as I could piecing together what was real – a very difficult task since he seems to leave multiple versions of ‘truth ‘. Also for R so I would know what to say to her. It was a nightmare voyage of discovery and it is frightening to know that you have been deliberately and expertly deceived for so long and the worst part was his ability to turn any doubts and suspicions round against you. He had totally deceived everyone and then used threats and intimidation to avoid discovery. He had not shown any interest at all for R unless someone was there then he would act the part - which is scary as he knew what he should do but just could not be bothered if no-one was there to see – this is one of the main factors I could never trust him alone with R. And from the things I have found out that R could have told me about but did not, leads me to believe he can manipulate her like he does all females.

Initially I thought of the affairs as just that, but now I realise, that like everything else with ‘P’, it is not affairs/relationships in the usual sense. The telling points being
1. The consistent pattern with the phone – as soon as he is left he is up to something – alcohol, women, etc. Seems to relate back to his mother leaving him and he sees everything in terms of people leaving him.
2. It is always with the females closest to him – they are simultaneous and overlapping – it is more like need than desire. I believe it is all abuse and also relates to the abuse with R.
3. Everyone, including our marriage and his previous relationships were built on a mass of lies, they can’t last and it seems he has to start something to have in reserve in case he is found out earlier than expected.
4. His ability to say sorry so convincingly and appear so meek and compliant hides his total lack of remorse at any hurt he causes.

Over the summer I talked to several people who had been at AA meetings, also B. and Sa, and it was evident that ‘P’ had been setting me up as the bad guy all year. He had done a very convincing job with some people – as he was playing his favourite role ‘the victim’. Now I began to understand all those things he was saying to me that I had thought was a sign of him cracking up. It was what he was saying to B., Sa, A etc – if they believed him then ‘P’ would believe himself and so expect me to believe it to. Confused? I was.

Contact in September R was instantly back to the girl who had nightmares, sucked her thumb and her hair, said she was nervous of him etc. I was really worried at what he was saying to her. I contacted the DVU/CPIU and had that first interview.

I expected some of the truth to come out in the court report – but was once again devastated to find his fantasy world was being turned into reality – and was very concerned that my statement missed out key facts I’d mentioned, distorted others and added things I had not said. My witnesses were equally upset at their accounts and the implication that we were lying. Just when I thought it could not get worse I had the SW/police interview where I was torn to shreds in front of R – I did not understand how they could interview like that, why their questions were so restricted and why they talked like they did in front of R. It nearly finished me and my self belief. But as soon as I listened to R I knew I was right and I had to keep going to find out what was going on. The set pattern of shopping, second lunch and TV with Audrey there seemed to settle her down. I relaxed slightly as I know he will be ‘good’ if someone is there. But she has come home in tears (even had silent tears) and is distrustful of him. She is happy to talk about Clair even Audrey but not ‘P’ unless she is worried. She still says she does not want to go.

I was beginning to work out the pattern and realised that he was either sick or evil or both. It was obvious that after the initial couple of weeks when R got some attention from him, he was not bothered with her. I could not understand why he maintained the access. In January I had talked to his ex-fiancee and been told that she believed he had a psychiatric disorder and that she had attended sessions with him that were not related to alcohol. I did my own research and found the pattern’s of behaviour followed the pattern of someone with anti-social personality disorder.
Then when it came close to proof lawyer said they did not expect it to go to court – they had no witness list and submitted no documents. When told to they produced the list with the SW and policewoman name. It all began to click into place – the interview was a set-up –that explained her attitude, the Ms were the link - that explained why he had to keep up contact - yet making it obvious he was not interested. It was still all linked to the abuse and the lengths he would take to prevent discovery. All I had done was try and discover the truth about him and his life, I stuck with the system and told the truth – yet he was going to all these lengths and (true to form) accusing me of doing it.

Once I had put it together I was even more scared for R but the system was not – I am talking about a man who cannot accept blame and is violent with anyone who tries to show him for what he is – including R – yet she had to go with him – and watch as her nightmares returned

We gave up trying to get help from the system. He managed to totally manipulate the system and all those so called professionals. We moved away and lost our home, family contact, job etc etc. We got free of him. But there is nothing to stop him coming back to play his games at any time. So I am still fighting a losing battle with the system to try to get to the truth to have something on record in case anything happens to me. I have no cash – but policies mature on death – his interest in R would be 2 fold – if I am alive, it would be the mind games – trying to turn R against me, if I am not then it would be to get to the money, This is what I struggle with – should I fight on or give up and hope R is left in peace?


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#1247 - 02/04/03 08:15 AM Re: My Story [Re: recovery]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Recovery,

This sounds very nightmarish. You are courageous to even start saying the story and try to fight back. I too escaped from P1,up to now I still think that has been the best thing I have ever done.
Ps never change, plus if you have left they come stronger. I met a woman that was abused in her youth by her father. Her mother was very intelligent, PHD, very influential fighting the woman causes yet at home leave with sunglasses on. I think that the biggest security you can offer your daughter is your support, your understanding, and give the feeling that you'll do anything to protect her. She deserves it and you as well.
Hang it there. Something will come to you.

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#1248 - 02/04/03 04:12 PM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Recovery, thank you for sharing your story. I only study these evil creeps, but if it were me, I would make sure he would never have contact with your child again.

Sadly, if the system can't help you the only person that can is you for the sake of your child. I am so sorry this is happening to you.

Di

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#1249 - 02/08/03 12:47 AM Re: My Story
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
OH MY GOSH!!! I can't believe I have found you all. I feel like I am at home! I have been seeing a councelor and she said that my ex is a P. I thought that was a no brainer but the curiosity got to me and decided to do some research online and here I am. I am dumbfounded at what I have read. It's like my ex was the case study for this. I will start by saying that I am a lot better than I have been for years. But only got here by my faith in God, I should be dead right now, really. I met my ex 9 years ago. I was 21 and very naive. My 20's were a nightmare, literally. I never loved him, never. He, just controlled me from day 1. The stories I could tell are so unbelievable that I have actually had family members question my truthfullness and I have actually wondered if I am so insane that I make up stories in my head. I acutally hoped for that to be the case. But I come to when the phone rings. Ok, I have to tell my story...upon meeting my P I thought he was a little strange. He's very clean cut, good looking, successfull but something didn't sit well with me, I had this sick feeling in my stomache the very first time I met him (a lot of other people say the same thing). I wasn't interested, but he didn't give up on me, insisted and persisted. I felt sorry for him, he was from South Dakota and didn't know anyone, well he got me pregnant and vowed to take care of me. That's when his rage started. He would get so mad his face would look like the devil, and at the littlest things. One time I got so tired of hearing him yell I through a piece of pizza in the kitchen and I ran into the bedroom, he dragged me out by my hair into the kitchen and on my hands and knees, rubbed the pizza in my face pulling my head back by my hair and yelled at me to clean up the mess. Yelling like a madman! I sat there and cried He was serious he would not let me out until I did what he said. I just curled up in a ball and cried, he started calling me "psycho" and went and got our 12 month old baby and yelled (in her face) "your mother is a F-C___! Don't ever be like your mother she is psycho!!!" (This is something that has said many times now to our children). I tried to leave him so many times but every time I did it was hell on earth. He would show his power through getting judges to believe the sickest lies about me to the point that they treated my like garbage (and I am a very well dressed, well kept person). Judges, police, even my high school best friend believed his hideous lies!!! He would take small truths and put them in huge lies to make it beleivable (if that makes sense). He used that power to get temporary emergency custody of our baby. He had me thrown in jail for child abuse and I couldn't go near him or my baby. I had to get an attorney and go to court to see her (after 3 months!!) The day I finally got to see her again my P said "was it worth it" and started sweet talking me and begging me to come home to him!! I refused, he raped me before he let me see my daughter and got me pregnant. I was devistated, he was happy. He then wanted to marry me and I gave in (gave up!) I married him because I was so tired of fighting him. That was the worst day of my life and his happiest. I stayed for a few more years and everyday was a living nightmare. I left again and was so afraid of him when I left I went into hiding, I had to come home to take care of the divorce and custody and guess what, he raped me again and got me pregnant again! I didn't go back. That was 3 years ago. My divorce was the worst that my attorney or the judge had ever seen. I had to take polygraph tests and everything. He had the judge the mediator and everyone convinced that I was a phsyco and a pathalogical lier and that I was abusive to him...until I learned I could tape record phone conversations!!! His rage and twistedness and foul mouth was finally all on tape and I got SOLE custody of my 3 beautiful children. I haven't lived with him in 3 years, I am not free of him I will always be his target, but I am alive and happy and living a pretty normal life. I believe that God has kept me alive, really I do. I hope that I can be of some help to anyone else out there who feels like they would rather to die than live another day with their "P". I have been there. I have felt insane, I have experienced hell on earth. But I am really happy now and have goals and dreams. I do still deal with my P and need people (who understand) to talk to about it. My family can't take it anymore. I just can't bring up his name anymore, they feel so helpless as to what to do, so I am soooo happy to find this site!!!

Thanks for listening (reading lol)

~Mindy

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#1250 - 02/08/03 07:25 AM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Welcome, Mindy, so glad you found this site also. Everybodys experience and recovery can be helpful to us all. Please share and keep coming back. Welcome, again. betterway

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#1251 - 02/08/03 08:17 AM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mindy,

Welcome to the forum! I find your story heartbreaking. It is extremely helpful in our recovery to write our experiences down, as many of us have discovered. Obviously, it is clear that your P was extremely abusive....both physically and mentally. His rage must be a true nightmare to experience.
Many of us here have experienced a more subtle form of abuse
by our P's. I'm just curious. How does your P's day to day behavior... when he is not raging... fit into the classic
personality of a psychopath or narcissist?
Rick

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#1252 - 02/09/03 12:52 PM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Mindy. . .What a horror story! I so relate to your words that God led you here and kept you safe all those years. When I read your story it brought me back to my nightmare years with P#1. Although not as bad, I related to much of your story. It truly is a miracle I am alive and healing. This forum was the place where I began to learn about this personality disorder and how to help myself. I had believed for years I must be defective to cause men to treat me so abusively. I had no clue. I was born into a family of P's, and have moved from one P to another. The last P almost "did me in".
What a great thing you have your children with you now. P#1 always used that as a threat to keep me with him. I knew so little about any of this. The books I read were the "pop psychology" stuff. This is WAY PAST that. . .
Again. . .I am so glad you are here!
Finished

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#1253 - 02/09/03 06:27 PM Re: My Story
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
Oh, it so nice to know that someone understands, on a personal level, what I am going through! And how sad is that! That I feel glad about that. I don't wish this on anyone. I can't believe you have had more than one person like this to deal with. I wonder if you are like me...very sensitive. I think that I am a perfect target because I am so nice. In fact I still trust everyone I meet and believe everything that everyone tells me! I would rather die than believe that I live in a world where I can't trust people.
And I wonder if you have those same traits.

My ex still won't leave me alone, he is constantly sexually harrasing me and up until a few months ago, he was coming over almost every day and raping me.

Rick asked me if he is a P or an N and I believe he is 100 percent Malignant Narcissist. He fits 16 out of the 20 characteristics. When I was reading the characteristics my heart started racing and I felt like I couldn't breathe. I was reading about him! He is a master projector of the worst kind. To prove it his favorite thing to call me is a "psychopath" He has been calling me that from the beginning, he tells everyone that I am one and tells me I really need to go to a mental hospital, he says it is really "sad". When I learned about projection, I couldn't believe it. He calls me this because he knows deep inside that HE is! That is chilling. As he would scream at me that I am pshyco I would look at his distorted face and think, no, you are. But I never called him that not even to my family or friends, I hated that word and to call him that seemed so redundant. But now I know for a fact that he really is and to actually learn about it makes it a little easier. So, I guess I should be reffering to him as an "N"? I am new at this. So do you think that I should read that book that you mentioned?

Mindy


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#1254 - 02/09/03 07:07 PM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mindy

>>I wonder if you are like me...very sensitive. I think that I am a perfect target because I am so nice. In fact I still trust everyone I meet and believe everything that everyone tells me! I would rather die than believe that I live in a world where I can't trust people. And I wonder if you have those same traits.<<

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that but yes I am told I am a very nice person. I have always been very trusting of people and usually tend to ignore my instincts and look for the best.

When I was doing some one on one counseling at DVIS, they recommended that I just practice not being "so nice" to everyone. They had suggested some things that I could say to P#2 and I told them it just wasn't "me". Didn't even sound like something I would say. So yes, it is my nature to be nice. But. . .I am learning that nice does not mean ignore my instincts and trust everyone. I KNOW not everyone is nice and have learned the hard way that some people just want to use me for their own self interest. It's the red flags I can't ignore anymore or gut feeling, instincts whatever you want to call it. They are there to warn us as well as friends that can see things I can't always see because my emotions get in the way. Does that make sense?

>>I am new at this. So do you think that I should read that book that you mentioned?<<

I learned on the forum to learn as much as you can as fast as you can. There are some great resourses on the resourse thread. I have found gobs of useful information there. There are links to other websites as well as books to read. My personal favorites so far: The Verbally Abusive Relationship, Stalking the Soul, Why is it Always About You, and Addicted to Love. I have personally read these and they have been SO INFORMATIVE.

What has helped me so much Mindy, is that I always took personal responsibility for everything wrong in my relationships. This has been so healing to realize that others have issues also AND all my significant love relationships have been with P's and N's. And I was totally ignorant of any of this particular personality disorder. . .

So. . .yes. . .take advantage of the links and if you run across anything that stands out to you, follow up on it. It sounds like you are in a good place. You know where you were and are wanting to learn how to never go back there again. . .

So glad you are here Mindy!
finished


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#1255 - 02/09/03 07:27 PM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Mindy, welcome to the forum. Psychopaths can have narcissistic personalities, while not all-narcissistic personalities are Psychopaths. I think of Psychopaths as a mixed bag of several conditions.

Di

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#1256 - 02/09/03 07:38 PM Re: My Story
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
Finished,

I was just reading a few of the posts on the General Discussion and I read one of yours where you were expressing how you thought yours was an N and how you felt that he (or she) was "wired wrong". I so feel the same way. My N is completely wired differently. Everything he says and does it just weird and disturbing and I wondered if I was the only person that noticed (besides my family). It is very disturbing and that is why I felt such a relief when I read about the NPD. I always thought that he was THE only person on this earth that was like that. My N is also very sexually driven and that is the part that I am still dealing with. What I am going through right now is so bizarre, if your interested I really need to talk about it. Oh, I am so glad I found you. I think the NPD is worse than the P. But then again I am not a professional, so I don't know. It is just so frustrating and bizarre. I would like to know more about your N to really find out if they are alike.

Thanks so much!

Mindy

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#1257 - 02/09/03 11:26 PM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mindy,
Honestly, I've never been able to figure out the difference between a psychopath and a narcissist.... other than on extreme levels and in rare instances the psychopath can be
truly violent. And, as I've stated many time, it is less impportant how we label them...than how we deal with their behavior. Malignant Self Love:Narcissism Revisited is a good book...but rather wordy and technical. Dr. Hares book
Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us is an easier read and very informative, however it does deal with a lot serial killers, etc...
Rick

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#1258 - 02/10/03 08:10 AM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mindy

What I've read about the difference between the N and the P, is the N has a consience. If there is a continium the N would be on the low end and the P and the high end. Follow me? Like there are degrees of P-ness. Some as Rick says, serial killers (high end) and the NPD that has some conscience, feels guilt etc.
Whatever you would like to discuss would be fine with me. P#1 was the sex crazed one. . .P#2 was more about power and control.
I'm not able to get to my computer as quickly as before but I'll be here as often as possible.
Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your children.
finished

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#1259 - 02/10/03 10:06 AM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
Mindy! you sound like me a lot
i love to help people
my husband and friends say that i have the savior syndrom

i remember when i first met p
he told me that he was very very egocentric
that he wanted to be pleased all the time
that he could change my emotion in a twist of a second
from crying to happy to fear to whatever his mind
wanted to see happening
and he would
but i thouthgt my belief in God the creator of this world
could help me to change that
with all my love for people to be happy
i wanted to help
i have to admit this is my second p
i did not want to mention the first one
because it takes a lot of energy for me to share
i am so tired of it all
i just wish i would stop talking about him
and go on with my life
but i needed a place to go where i can unwind
without being judged
as being the bad guy
because he does that to me too
tell people all kind of lies about me
the people who believes it do not know about him
but a lot do know because we are in the public a lot
when he does beat me up
and they know how he goes from one woman to another

Mindy i am glad that you have found this place
it is a miracle that you finally got away from him

i thank Diane E. who started this
am i right Diane did you started this site?


freedom


Edited by freedom (02/10/03 10:07 AM)

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#1260 - 02/10/03 05:14 PM Re: My Story [Re: freedom]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi freedom, yes I did start the forum. We wouldn't be where we are today without the many forum angels who have helped along the way with everything from the design of the site to financing the costs and fees.

I had no idea the forum would grow into a forum for victims. I started it to gather what information I could because I am a true crime person.

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#1261 - 02/10/03 06:36 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
Diane,

I am curious, what do you mean you are a "true crime person"? And who was this site originally intended for?

Mindy

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#1262 - 02/10/03 07:05 PM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Mindy, what I meant was that I read true crime stories and many of them include a Psychopath in the mix. I started the original site several years ago to collect what information I could find on the internet about Psychopaths. Shortly after that victims of Psychopaths started showing up and that has been the direction the forum has taken ever since then. It has been one foot in front of the other. Now of course the site is to provide information and helping victims by providing a place to share information.

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#1263 - 02/10/03 08:25 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
That makes sense. You are awesome for supporting us in this!!! I am going to post some information that might help on another thread (victims of phsycopaths and the legal system).

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my posts and the kind words you have given me. I still have hope (I am not perfect I have lost hope many many times) but right now I feel a lot of hope and a lot of passion towards wanting to help. Thanks again!!
Mindy

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#1264 - 02/11/03 11:12 AM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dianne,

" Psychopaths can have narcissistic personalities, while not all-narcissistic personalities are Psychopaths. I think of Psychopaths as a mixed bag of several conditions."

I know that this question may have the hint of labelling...
However, in your opinion, what are these narcissistic personality traits and what conditions/symptoms/behaviors would a person have to exhibit to (possibly) be considered a psychopath?

Rick

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#1265 - 02/11/03 05:02 PM Re: My Story
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Rick, it can be hard to distinguish sometimes in dealing with a narcissistic personality, since many of the characteristics are shared by both. The key word is conscience to separate the Psychopath from the Narcissistic Personality.

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#1266 - 02/13/03 09:06 AM Re: My Story
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
Rick,

I visited the web site regarding Malignant Self Love, Narcissism Revisited. Thank you. I believe my ex is an N to the core. I believe that there is a huge difference between the 2 disorders. I also believe that Narcissists don't have a concience or at least don't allow themselves to feel any guilt. If they did, they wouldn't hurt people like they do. I am his target because I have always seen through him, I threaten his very existence! He has never been able to get his narcisstic supply from me. I have always hated him and he knows it and can't stand it.

I feel so relieved to have been able pin point his behavior. I hope you will be able to do the same. I can now teach my kids about his disorder and explain why he does and says the things that he does (when they get older of course).

Pin pointing your P is very helpfull in being able to know how to deal with them. It's definately worth exploring.

Take care,

Mindy

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#1267 - 06/04/03 04:12 PM Re: My Story [Re: mindy]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Moving this up so that new members have a place to introduce themselves and tell us about the situation that they are in.

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#1268 - 07/22/03 11:48 AM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Sandi, welcome to the forum. I am moving this to include it with this thread.

Sandi
(member)
07/16/03 05:36 AM

Hi all,

I am new here, but after reading your stories I felt compelled to tell my own. My ex (P) and I were "married" for 5 years and 4 days. The relationship was sprinkled with adultery, lies, financial hardships and oh my God...DRAMA! But from the outside I had a relationship all my friends envied. I had poetry, music, limosines, parties and grandiose shows of affection and expressions of love. At the time I thought it was the greatest love of my life. It was also my biggest nightmare.

As our realtionship progressed I became more and more obsessed with making him happy....being what he wanted me to be. Through his adultery I found myself further and further isolated as he intentionally targeted my closest friends as conquests. Through it all I took responsibility for his behavior (eventually) and forgave him. Each time it ate away more and more of my individuality. I found myself constantly worrying over my own behavior and my own failings in the relationship.

On our 5th wedding anniversary he picked me up in a limo....complete with roses and champagne. Over dinner he expressed his undying love for me...and his incredible luck to be with me. We toasted to the next 5 years. I was in love all over again and basking in the glow of his adoration.

4 days later he awoke, dressed and packed for a 3 day business trip. I dropped him off at the airport myself. Later that day I stopped to pull money out of the ATM only to discover the account was empty. (Here I will cut to the chase) He had changed his identity, wiped out my bank accounts and moved on to his next victim with as many of my valuables as he could could carry. Over the next 3 months I discovered nothing I had ever known about him was true. (Except his family) Even the name he gave me was a variation of his real name. There was no record we had ever been married, or that he had ever existed. I learned from his Brother that he had been diagnosed a narcissistic psychopath in 1991....and I was victim number 9. I was completely devastated. I didn't think I could go on without him. My friends had me on a suicide watch (they returned to my life upon his exit) and I sought therapy. I started reading everything I could get my hands on about his "condition". Throughout the next year and a half he continued to call....telling me he loved me....telling me I had misinterpreted what had happened and he had not "really" left me. In the beginning I would listen, wanting to believe him, but eventually I understood they were further attempts to manipulate me.

I worried that I would not be able to turn him away if he suddenly appeared in my doorway. I knew I was vunerable to his incredible charm. So I got a restraining order against him. I knew I was free from him when he called the last time. I was in the kitchen cooking dinner when the phone rang. It was him. He talked for a few minutes and I aws interested in the new version of "How everything is really OK between us" when he said something that made me start laughing uncontrollably. In a low voice he half whispered "Don't forget to lock your door, Sandi"

I started laughing so hard I had to put the phone down! No matter how I tried to get myself under control it made me laugh harder. Finally I pulled myself together and picked up the receiver. To my surprise he was still there. This made me laugh all over again. (shorter this time) When I again picked up the phone he asked angrily "What's so damn funny?!" I replied "Yes, Phil ... I lock my doors. But now I lock the bad people OUTSIDE!" To which I laughed and hung up the phone. I must have laughed for 30 minutes. He never called again.

I was finally free...both internally and externally.

I just wanted to say that eventually it DOES stop hurting. Eventually you will SEE them for what they are and they will not have any more power over you. Don't punish yourself for being "stupid", "forgiving" or "naive". Rejoice in the fact you have that to give. Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. Because they will forever be closed off from everyone and will never know either sorrow or joy. And yet you.....will love again....and be loved in return.

I am not saying it has left me without scars. I am still hyper sensitive to lies from men I meet. I have not yet (after 3 years) found another man to love. But I know I will. I know you will too.

Sandi

betterway
(member)
07/16/03 07:51 AM

Hi Sandi,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your story.

>>Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. <<

That is what I needed to hear today. At times I feel so numb to feelings. When reading what you wrote it reminded me of how I did have feelings, lots of them, I have so much compassion, I have a big heart, I use to care about people (now Im suspicious of everybodies motives). Then came P. He made my world shine. Then he took my feelings, my caring heart, my friendship and stomped all over them and crushed my spirit. I am in recovery now - with No Contact- and I know I will feel again. He may have taken the good away for awhile but he can't have it forever. I also know that I feel so much empathy and love for the people I meet that really share from their heart and know what the real pain is of dealing with a P.

Nice to have you here on the forum, Sandi.

betterway

recovery
(member)
07/16/03 07:56 AM

Hi Sandi

Everytime it takes my breath away about how alike they are these Ps. I agree that there is life after P and that is wonderful. But the ties that bind to my P is our child and the knowledge that although she is safe just now - she might not be in the future. I want him unmasked - but ofcourse the harder I tried to prove my case the more he could portray me as a ranting !$%$£$% - people might believe one affair, even 2 or 3 consecutive but 2 or 3 simultaneously, well it was easier to go with the P. So we moved.

That is why I am an avid reader here - to get clues on how to best protect. I am pretty much in the future but with an eye glancing back - just in case.

But I agree that when you finally get the measure of the P and realise the one you loved does not exist - then the sense of freedom is phenomenal!

best of luck

recovery

finished
(member)
07/16/03 03:19 PM

Hi Sandi,

Thank you so much for sharing your story. The threads of similarity are too much to ignore. They all really do seem to follow the same pattern.

Yesterday when P#2 called at first it was work related, then his voice went low and seductive and he asked what I was doing that afternoon. There was no mistaking what he meant. Fortunately, I had plans but the fact that I responded to it was shocking to myself! When I hung up I felt violated and yucky.

>>I worried that I would not be able to turn him away if he suddenly appeared in my doorway. I knew I was vunerable to his incredible charm.<<

I hear that!!! I was caught totally off guard. It has been 10 months since I was "with" him last. It was a NIGHTMARE that has taken me months to get over and am STILL working on getting over. I was shocked at my automatic response. Like I said, I'm more vulnerable than I think to him. . .still.

I posted an article on another thread by Dr. Sam Vaknin. He is a Narcissist. It so mirrors what you described. It is a very interesting read.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9128/102150

>>I just wanted to say that eventually it DOES stop hurting. Eventually you will SEE them for what they are and they will not have any more power over you. Don't punish yourself for being "stupid", "forgiving" or "naive". Rejoice in the fact you have that to give. Take heart in the fact that you CAN grieve, that you CAN feel. Because they will forever be closed off from everyone and will never know either sorrow or joy. And yet you.....will love again....and be loved in return.<<

I am finding that to be true in my life as well Sandi. It feels good to open my heart again. I only do that with people I KNOW are safe right now though.

Again. . .thank you so much for sharing. I am so glad you joined us :-).
finished

dusty
(member)
07/16/03 04:02 P

Sandi:

Welcome to the forum. So many read this link, but not enough, for their own well intentioned reasons, tell their story.........we/i understand why. it is so scary...and heartbreaking and exhausting/unbelievable.

thanku for sharing............

Dusty

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#1269 - 07/22/03 11:55 PM Re: My Story [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sandi,

Welcome to the forum. Your story, while chilling and unsettling, was written in such a succint, levelheaded manner that it is clear you are..well...clear! The trials and tribulations of your experience, the deceipt, the pain and anguish is familiar territory for most of us on here.
Bravo to you for dealing with it in such a healthy way.
I, too, had the tables turned on me though not as dramatically as yours. I'm curious, though. Were you close to his family throughout your "marriage"? And if so, it must have been distressing to you that they chose not to share this information with you earlier.
Yes, I will agree with you that time makes it all better... and distance certainly plays a major part in that. Still, I have those brief moments that play with my heartstrings when I least expect it. Still, I do know now that my P is not capable of having a normal, feeling, empathetic relationship.

Rick

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#1270 - 07/25/03 05:11 PM Re: My Story - Part One
Marie Offline
member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 7
What a great forum! It’s such a comfort to see that others have gone through what I have. As I write this I’m still under his grip and I hate myself for it, and I’m aware that I’m not seeing things quite clearly yet, but here goes:

I’m 18 and he’s 19. In the scheme of things--what with people marrying psychopaths and having their lives completely ruined--this summer fling of mine isn’t a big deal. It’s just so hard for me to accept that I have to let him go.

We went to high school together and we talked then, but we weren’t really friends. He was a petty thief at age 13, had a reputation of accepting sexual favors from any girl at any time (he was a self-styled "pimp"), and had more charisma than a politician--he was our class president, in fact. I was fascinated by his bad-boy mystique, and there was never a dull moment of conversation with him. He and I kept in touch through freshman year in college. He was a heavy drinker and had a stint as a cocaine addict, during which time he offered to pay me (with money AND sex) to write his term papers. I declined. I’ve noticed that his code of ethics can be reduced more or less to an "ends justify the means" philosophy.

Somewhere I’d read about sociopathy and had concluded that my friend was probably a sociopath. When one day he told me he’d just gone to the doctor and was now "certifiably insane," I expected sociopathy to be the diagnosis--but no, he was bipolar. Later, though, after we’d dated and the entire thing fell apart before my eyes, I asked him if he was a sociopath and he informed me that he was a borderline psychopath. "I like within the bounds of this reality but under the backdrop of my own reality," he said. "I’ve completely flipped my lid! The drugs are just a cover for it. But my psychiatrist is convinced I can never be dangerous, because I feel guilt for my actions." Interestingly, however, he claimed to feel guilt for "being bad because I know it’s not what I’m supposed to do," which shocked me: Shouldn’t the reason for the guilt be the pain of the people he steps on?

Our dating relationship (a "summer romance," as he called it) began after the end of freshman year, lasted for a measly three weeks, and was initiated completely by him. I look back on the entire episode as a whirl-wind of drugs and alcohol. The both of us were always under the influence of something. He moved fast; he told me he loved me two weeks into it, and I, the fool, believed it. According to him, he’d had enough of his "pimpin’ lifestyle" and was ready to settle down and work for real intimacy with me, because I was a special girl and we understood one another. I was disturbed when he told me he couldn’t for the life of him remember when his last relationship was or who it had been with, but I consigned this thought to the same forbidden place I’d sent the nagging voice that whispered, "Sociopath! Stay away!" Denial is a beautiful thing.

There were many red flags. The road to destruction was riddled with broken promises, about which I never confronted him. The truth is, I was and still am completely enamored of him and was willing to put up with all the unreturned phone calls and broken plans in the world if it meant I could continue to enjoy his company, because I enjoyed his company very much. I craved him, and I mistook the craving for love.

Suddenly, he flat out stopped calling me, answering my calls, or returning my messages. I was utterly confused. On our last date, I’d told him I loved him--I really believed that he was the love of my life--and he’d said wistfully, "If only we’d known about this in high school"; the whole night had been perfect, in my opinion. I find it very interesting that he dropped me immediately after he got an avowal of love out of me. For a few days I’d convinced myself he’d lost his cell phone which contained my phone number (denial is a beautiful thing) but that explanation couldn’t hold water for long. If he loved me (which he DID, or so he said), why didn’t he e-mail me? Why didn’t he ring my doorbell?

Ten days later I confronted him via IM. He’d needed to be "a recluse" for a little, he said, and had left me a voicemail the week before. As to the supposed contents of this mysterious vanishing voicemail, I’ve not a clue. He promised to call me later that night so that we could go out--although I was furious, I gave him the benefit of the doubt yet again and agreed to see him! The call never came. "Psychopath," I fumed and berated myself for my blindness. It was the only explanation I could think of for his behavior. I vowed to throw him into my mental dustbin.

A week or so later, as I was still coming to terms with the nightmare, I was out driving and there he was in the oncoming traffic. He gave me a huge grin which I couldn’t help but return, such was my disbelief that he had the audacity to smile at me. I later confronted him on IM again and received what was essentially an apology: "I don’t want you to hate me, I really did have feelings for you, I just can’t control myself, don’t hate the entire male population on account of my actions," etc. etc. He still instant messages me, and just the other day he said he wanted me to use him as my "sex toy," that he still loves me even if I hate him, and that he’d call me so that we could get together. (He never called.) I hate myself for it, but I’m so tempted to take him up on his offer; I probably would if he’d just stick to his word for once and call me to make plans. His magnetism is unlike anything I’ve ever encountered and it overshadows my resentment over everything always having to be on HIS terms, according to HIS timeline.

Thanks for reading!

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#1271 - 07/25/03 05:40 PM Re: My Story - Part One [Re: Marie]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Marie, welcome to the forum. I am sure as you read the posts here that most victims have a NO contact rule when it comes to being with Psychopaths.

Di

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#1272 - 07/25/03 10:39 PM Re: My Story - Part One [Re: Marie]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm a bipolar and though during a manic phase or hypomanic phase a bipolar may come accross as a sociopath it is completely different. Bipolars cycle, too, it's true. But bipolar start by getting kind of revved up, rapid speech, t hey think they know everything, they become grandiose, extremely charming. Bipolars are not cold, they are self centered in the manic phase. When the mania subsides they will usually become depressed. The two diagnosis may be comorbic.
My bipolar P interestingly was never blue when depressed, only unable to function, uanble to get out of bed, feeling physical symptoms but never sad.

This guy whatever he is is trouble. Don't get all involved in the riddle of the sob. He's just an sob and unlikely to change. If on top of that he's a bipolar forget it. I spent 20 years with mine. Follow the general idea. No contact. That has worked for me.

Recovery starts I think when you finally become convinced that there is no hope for this person. That they are not going to change. Like other abusive relationships, the chances of getting hooked in a cycle of abuse diminish considerably if at the first sign of abuse you decamp. Once you are stuck with the P, he'll play you like a piano and you will become so debilitated and confused you'll find it hard to leave. You will eventually also lose your perspective of reality and start accepting the P's version of reality, which is a self serving set of rationalizations to cover up what he is trying to do for himself against you best interests.

Remember what you see is a mirage. This great guy is inextricably intertwined with a sh*t who will drain you, use you and eventually discard you. You are not a real person to him. This is an internal construct he canot make.

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#1273 - 08/29/03 07:29 AM Re: My Story - Part One
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi

First I'd like to say thanks to Di and everyone else involved for an unbelievably great website. It has helped so much to know that other people have also felt the things that I have felt and been as dumb as I was! I can at last start seeing myself as a sane and normal person who just happens to have had a particularly lousy experience. It feels like coming home!

I'll try to keep my story short, but it is so complicated - as it usually is when dealing with a P. But perhaps at the beginning, I should say that it all happened a long time ago; that I have come a long way down the road of recovery, but hope that being able to share with all you wonderful people will help me finally to become a whole person.

I first met my P when I was 17 and he was 20. We were the greatest of friends; he was extremely intelligent and charming and made me laugh a lot. I adored him. Even then, he could be incredibly irresponsible and drank too much, but this was all part of his charm. At 18 I had a 'fling' with him and realised I was in love. It didn't last long, and he didn't bother to contact me again. Over the next 9 years he would occasionally pitch up, take me out, sleep with me, give me a great time - and disappear again. I was never able to feel anything serious for another man, as they were all overshadowed by this 'wonderful' person who I loved so very much. However, I tried to have other relationships and by age 27 had a beautiful 3 year old daughter and was living a happy and stable life as a single mum. Then P descended on me again, but this was a different P. His parents had died, he was utterly alone in the world, he had been in the army and 'seen terrible things' which, he said, had left him in deep depression. He was drinking heavily and now had his own business which was financially on the rocks - although he initially told me it was doing well. Well, sucker here just could not resist diving in and trying to sort out his life for him. Within 3 weeks we were engaged; I had given notice at work and had begun organising to move to the town where he lived. I packed him off to the doctor (yes I was a bossy managing cow) who diagnosed a nervous breakdown and put him on tablets. I was told I should keep all worry and stress away from him, so I immediately took on the books and admin for his business, paid outstanding bills, took on the household expenses and the running of the household, and everything else that could possibly be a stress to poor P. Our sex life was pretty poor; he was always either too drunk or too stressed or too something. I had a vague feeling that all was not right in the way he reacted with young boys, but put that thought out of my mind as it was just an incredible suspicion to have of such a nice person as P. He could be violent and very abusive when drunk, both to me and other people, but always said he was so very sorry the next morning when he was sober. I had been living with him for perhaps 3 months when the episode which still blows my mind took place. We had a girl living in the cottage - she was very likely a P as well, but not sure on that. She shared meals with us etc and had a small daughter just a little older than mine.

One evening I was cooking and they were chatting. I walked through and they were giggling and smirking. They handed me a drink and would not share the joke with me. It took many years and a good psychologist before I managed to remember the subsequent events of that evening. All I could remember the next day, after that point, was sitting down with them after supper, and laughing hysterically about a stupid very un-funny joke I had made - and the next thing I remembered it was dawn and I was sitting in the bathroom with a loaded rifle in my hands, pointing to my head, and P was bursting through the door. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with the rifle or what had happened the previous evening. P was in a furious temper and told me that I had been running around outside through the bushes with my daughter and a carving knife threatening to cut her throat.I was in a real state, hardly able to walk, sore all over, and bleeding. I found it impossible to believe that I could have done anything like that. I asked my little girl later in the morning if I had taken her outside in the night; she said yes. My heart just sank and I felt completely broken. I asked if I had hurt her and she said no. I was too devastated to even ask or say any more about it. I blocked it out of my mind and refused to think about it.

Of course, what I only realised much, much later - 15 years later, when under counselling - was that they had spiked my drink with something bad, probably LSD. Later, when I got the memories back, it turned out that I had not touched my daughter - the house we lived in was an old fashioned one with the loo in a small building outside the main house, and I had taken her to the loo in the middle of the night - hence the 'yes' when I asked if we went outside. But for 15 years I believed I was mad; that there was a violent and evil person inside me that could come out any time.

P reinforced the idea that I was mad - it suited him and his manipulative ways, and also provided a great cover if I ever found out the truth about him and spoke to anyone about it. 'Oh, that's just one of my wife's stories; she's not quite right in the head' kind of thing. I became a total non-person; was completely controlled and manipulated by P and would do anything for him. The next five years are a blur. I remember very little about them. I had none of my own friends or family in that town; no-one I could confide in.

Eventually, with the help of some amazingly good friends I subsequently made, I was able to find the strength to leave him, although I truly believe I would have gone back to him time and time again, if it was not for the next disgusting event in the saga. My nephew, by now aged 16, confided in me that P had abused him when he was 10 or 11 years old. I later found out that he had abused my other nephew as well - who in turn grew to be an abuser and abused my daughter when she was about 7 and he was around 14. All the vague fears I had had over the years, and our lack of sex life, now made sense. It had always been 'my fault' that he did not want to sleep with me - I had been bad, or I was ugly and unwomanlike, or other more personal insults. But all the time it was just simply that I was not his type - he liked boys.

Well, that is my story. In the intervening years I have moved away from the town where he lived, got the boys and my daughter into counselling, and gone for counselling myself. I am now (mostly) human again - much more so since reading your website! Still suffer from PTSD to some extent, and have flashbacks to that awful night when they drugged my drink and the world went crazy. But (Ok I am a real dumbo) I never realised that he was a psychopath until the other day when I asked my counsellor why he should have done that, and she said it was because he was a psychopath. She read through with me the signs by which a psychopath is recognised - there were 7 of them and he scored 7 out of 7. I have since done some research on the net, and came to your website. I can really bond with what all of you are saying. Thanks so much all of you!

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#1274 - 08/29/03 08:57 AM Re: My Story - Part One
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Ali, welcome to the forum. There isn't a charge for the words you type so feel free to join in wherever you are comfortable.

Di

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#1275 - 09/02/03 04:02 AM Re: My Story - Part One
Anonymous
Unregistered


does having to sleep with a knife under the bed on occasion constitute me living with a p?

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#1276 - 09/02/03 04:26 AM Re: My Story - Part One
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Well it might - but does he have all the charecteristics that goes with being a P? I slept with a knife by my side when I first found out how dangerous my P was - and the lengths he would go to to protect his interests ie his self? It certainly means life is horrifically scary when the person you loved is the one you are most scared of in the entire world. Keep yourself safe. Hope to hear more from you. As Ali said - the P can't change - so no contact is usually best if possible.

Good luck

Recovery

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#1277 - 09/02/03 08:00 AM Re: My Story - Part One
Anonymous
Unregistered


I believe i am. im open for any correction. to whatever he is. first of all hes, verbally abusive when confronted with anything morally wrong. illegally or immorally. second he believes rules apply to every one else EXCEPT himself. any, and I mean ANY slight. He lies right to my face with no problem. He uses his family never caring about their feelings. Example just yesterday he told my son (11yrs) he couldnt play outside with friends because he had something really special planned. 3 hours later son asked when they were going. and He replied we're not going anywhere because you want to play with your friends and dont want to be with me. This is just one of the many examples. theres so much more. I really hate what he does to my kids. he did this while i was a work of course.

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#1278 - 09/03/03 01:24 AM Re: My Story - Part One
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi DragonLady

Your man doesn't sound good. As to whether he is a psychopath or not - read as much as you can from the resources on this site - if he is, it should all start to make a lot of sense to you quite quickly. There is a checklist devised by Dr Hare which is used a lot in diagnosing them. I found a copy of it on this site: Click here for test Apparently you score 0 points for a no answer; 1 for a maybe and 2 for a definitely. A score of 30 or more indicates a psycho. However, it is supposed to be done by a qualified psychologist so results when done by people like you and me may not be conclusive. But it should give you a good idea.

Hope this helps. Also that this forum helps you as much as it has helped me.

**edited to make link clickable, Di


Edited by Dianne E. (09/03/03 06:53 AM)

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