Dear Betrayed...<<<>>>
Yes!!!! I am still learning - but I have a strong feeling to want to try and help others somehow out there - I feel like I've had this experience for a couple reasons - 1) to learn to live and enjoy the rest of my life in the best ways possible and 2) to help others with this. But how? I have a girlfriend right now who I am trying to get to read this site - because she has one in her life right now (from what I know) - but she's oblivious. She's up and down, mostly down, miserable, and the stuff she tells me he does - well, they are "red flags" to me now - but I can't control when, or if, she ever has an awakening. I just pray she doesn't get physically hurt along with the rest of it, before she finds out.
<<< i ended up paying for the lunch, plus he stole $11 something off me>>>
You reminded me of other times with this P - I had packed a nice lunch one day on a hike (cheese, crackers, the works) and we stopped for supper that night on the road - and I ended up paying my share there! Another time we stopped for stuff at a convenience store, and he conveniently left his wallet in the truck! Another time I fronted the money for an adult ed day trip - and when I told him about the price - he pulled out a couple dollars and said he'd have to owe me - never happened - I had to bring it up again - at which time he made me feel like I was a cheapskate!!
<<>> - Yes! He would OFFER to do something that glaringly (or not) needed doing, I never asked - but when he offered, well, at first I said Okay. After a few times of him coming back to me at a later time and verbally abusing me, making me feel like a terrible person - saying "Of all the things I do for you!!! and you can't, won't,..whatever" -I finally got to the point where if he asked - I'd say "NO! I'll do it myself".
He was always showing up unannounced, I must have told him 300x to call first - don't just come knock on my door - I value my privacy - but he never got that one - and then would wonder why I was somewhat unreceptive!!! Then he'd say "well you never answer your phone!" Dah - maybe there's a reason there - do you need a picture?!
<<<>>> Struck a nerve with me!!! (Many of these things I'm writing about happened after I'd broken it off, but trying to be a nice person and remain a friend!?!) - He showed up one night after a T-storm, towel in hand, asking if he could take a shower, because they had no power at his house. Well, I thought that was weird, to say the least, but being the nice person I unfortunately try to be - I said "go ahead". Thinking all the while that taking a shower isn't a crucial thing to do - where you have to show up at somebody's house with a towel!
.....Before I got rid of him completely - no friendship, no nothing - he would come into my house when I wasn't there - Once when I hadn't heard from him in awhile, and was feeling better and starting to get my nerves under control - I had gone to an event one day and actually enjoyed myself for the first time in a long while - came home - and there on my coffee table was a letter from him - HE DID NOT HAVE TO COME IN MY HOUSE TO PUT IT THERE! - but he did....and it was to the effect that I was to make up my mind about he and I and give him an answer once and for all!! (Again - he needed a picture)
Another time, I came home and felt some weird vibes - like someone had been in my house - and "something" led me to my closet - where I found he had been there and taken a gift back he'd given me!!!

Scary - what did happen on that January night? They just keep returning and returning somehow to haunt us - and more and more pieces of the puzzle(s) keep falling into place. You put it so well "When you are in a trance state, you don't question. ...It horrifies me of the things I didn't question". Me too, and the things that pop up again and again. Once you're out of the brainwashed/captive stage - you wonder who that person was in your body that let those things happen?!? I'm reminded of the conversation I just had with a police friend, who I just recently told some of the story to - and when I said something like I wonder how I could be so stupid?....he quickly and firmly said "Don't ever think that - you're a smart lady - and they are so good - no one involved with a psychopath has a chance - they are predators". I didn't know it but he teaches a course for women - on domestic, verbal, emotional abuse and rape/assault prevention and education, which I'll be finding out more about - maybe I can offer, at the least, a list of some books he might not have for his classes.
Take care!

Just thought of something important in the conversation with the police friend - he reminded me that this area I grew up in and the time I grew up in - where we overridingly trusted almost everyone - has a lot to do with getting into these experiences. It's not the same world. I know I still am guilty of trusting too much. But will never be that gullible again. It will take a miracle for me to really trust anyone again - but I'm not going to let that stop me from being as happy as I can be - even if alone. Better alone anyday - and I'm not really alone - I've got myself. We've all, ultimately, got only ourselves, and we have to be good to us. There are and will be some good people in my life and I'll do what I can to cherish them and let them in to a degree I'M COMFORTABLE with. Take care, everyone.

all I keep thinking is for revenge - since I did, at one point, contact the person he was last living with to try and warn her, but I tried to be anonymous about it. I know I shouldn't have bothered - but something compels you to do it. Maybe that's still part of the hold they have on you - even though you know it's sick.

P-Proof,
I have been feeling that way, compelled to warm others but I have been holding back. I have been resisting to contact some that indirectly warned me. I can deny I think about it really often but I believe it is wiser to remain calm and channel your energy to some more constructive healing. My friend psychologists tell me repetively anything that has do with the P is bound to trouble, that is, actions motivated by P affects, any related persons, any professional adventures, anything thus I tell myself everytime that I feel the urge to act, " I should respect myself more and turn the corner." I don 't know if you have read my posts, but 6 months ago I did cut the ties with the P, not so many weeks ago he contacted again. After few days, I felt visceral displeasures, deep tension like feeling which made me understand that I felt that most of the time I was in a kind of relationship with P. I understood the unhealthy behind that feeling and I have to run away from that, I know that my sanity is delicate ( I feel P and his world is a deep dark hole) and if I like indeed to live I have to respect myself and to do so I have to repress those temptations of acting on P's evilish territory or against his flow. Doing anything in the field of the P or doing anything direct or indirect to the P is a slow suicide. At first when I cut the relationship I thought I had to talk to someone event to the P, or to people around the P, just needed to say something, but the opportunities of subtle and not dangerous comments have arisen. That gave me more satisfaction than have done something directly.

I like your comments on the tarantula... it is such a great analogy. I have the impression that it is like in an office some people may warn you " better be friend with that person, because if an enemy you won t survive." so one may have the impression better tame the beast before it eats you.
My friend psychologists also tell me " The biggest stupidity of a man is to repeat the same thing expecting a different answer." I guess Ps make forget about that one, but let's remind us that one.
thank you for sharing your stories, it is so helpful to to read all that.

>>>>I came home and felt some weird vibes - like someone had been in my house - and "something" led me to my closet - where I found he had been there and taken a gift back he'd given me!!! <<<<,

Four months into the stalking:
My grandaughter and I got home and I noticed on my bathroom floor a towel that had bleach stains all over it. It didn't really register, why is it lying on the floor, why are bleach stains all over it, parts of it looked like a knifeblade with bleach on it, had been wiped off on it? I walked into my bedroom, something was amiss with the curtain, above my bed. I pulled it back, and written on the screen window (which is inside the glass), was written in white " Missed Me". I realized it had been written with the bleach. I wasn't shocked, I wasn't horrified, I wasn't scared, I wasn't angry. When I told a friend about it later that night, I realized I should have been feeling all those emotions, but I wasn't. After being violated so continuously, having my boundaries disrespected, had so much chaos happening around me, I was shut off. I think that our brains can only take so much boundary violation, and then our emotions shut down. The P can do anything they want to, and we just don't respond.

Betrayed.

>>>>>>A couple times, when I thought I was rid of him, I caught him outside my bedroom window as I was reading. The first time - I heard the windchime (and it wasn't windy) - and looked out but saw nothing. The next night - again the windchime - I jumped up and ran to do the door - and there he was, skalking beneath the cedar tree - I asked what the hell he was doing - he said he didn't want to scare me by knocking on the door!!! <<<<<

No, he wanted to scare you by peeking in the window, and lurking in the yard.!!!

Some pre-clues that I had a stalker on my hands. They like to peek and they like to hide.

One morning he was over at my house, and I was in the bathroom brushing my hair, and putting on make up, with the door open. I thought he had gone out to the car to get something, but as I was looking in the mirror, I caught him looking at me. He was in the livingroom, where there was a mirror, which reflects into the bathroom mirror. I had no sense that he was even back in the house, and was shocked. He quickly put his head down, and pretended to be doing something.
At our store, I had asked him to put a window in his part of the store, to see when customers came in, for when I wasn't there. Instead of a large opening, so the customers would be able to see that he was there and available, he put in a small peep hole, just large enough for his eyes.

Many times, while in our store, I would be sitting, talking to a customer or a friend. I was always quite surprised to find him lurking close by, pretending to be fixing something. I had not even noticed him come out from his area. He should have been in his own area, refinishing something, doing his own work. A few times I almost tripped over him when I got up for something. He was laid out, on the floor, always with some pretext of repairing something or other. Usually you can sense someone around you, I never could with him. I never even clued in that he was spying on me.

Some mornings, if he was there for a shower at my house, I would leave a few minutes before him, for the store. He always managed to catch up with me, suddenly appearing in my rear view mirror. During the stalking, many times, I would look in my rear view mirror and there he was, suddenly out of nowhere. One place along the road to where I live, I realize he had been hiding behind some bushes, waiting for me to drive by. God knows how long he waited there.

Betrayed.

(my story cont.)..... (i'll write without capitalizing)
i got side-tracked by realizing that the last one before the P. was decidedly a P. too, or at least had all the ear-marks of one!....
so back to early this year - around Feb. 2002 - i was feeling pretty good - NO MEN, doing my history stuff, etc. - but somewhat thinking too much about my future - about friends at work leaving, i'd had some minor surgery in january (ailments seem to creep up as age does), feeling like i needed time off from work to regroup - but nonetheless - i wasn't feeling too bad - just a little case of winter blahs, i guess. minding my own business - at work one afternoon - and there he was on the other end of the phone - after not hearing from him for 8 yrs. (when he had stopped by for sex and i declined!). there was that charming, southern drawl.... he called up to see how i was, if i was married, why wasn't i married (i answered "no i'm not that crazy yet") whatever....told me he was retired, traveling some - working some here and there - said he might pass through my state one of these days - can he visit? i said "yeah, i guess, AS A FRIEND". he told me that he had been pretty down a little earlier, he was just hanging around, and would love to come visit. i told him "now you know how i felt for many times of my life" (with the depression). he told me some other fantastic things which had happened after he retired, which i doubt - like real bad luck stories. and then we hung up, and i figured i'd never hear from him again, and put it out of my mind. but he called again. then he wanted my e-mail address. then the e-mails started coming. how he remembered the good times with me, how he had no one, only acquaintenances from work and no real friends -that he'd been a workaholic all those years and now he was paying for it. (btw - i forgot - he told me he was finally divorced from the wife). said he had no one - and wanted a life - just to find some good person to live out the rest of his life with. he gave me his e-mail address too. i would answer him when i felt like it - in-between his little trips (which he said were to visit men friends in other states - YEAH RIGHT!!!!!). he kept saying he wanted to visit. so it went on for awhile with e-mails and phone calls (mainly i just asked him what the hell he'd been doing the past yrs. and i wasn't the little girl he'd known back then anymore (spoke too soon didn't i? - that must have been a real challenge to him). he unfolded his story to me - first that he'd initiated the divorce a couple yrs. after our "love affair" of yrs.ago. then i wanted to know why in hell he'd never contacted me, if we were so in love? he said he entered his wild time for awhile. he told me about this woman, that woman, here, there, everywhere (what was i thinking??? did i need a sledge hammer over my head?!?) (my problem ends up being too forgiving most times, and i'm a curious person, and accept people for what they are - and i had essentially forgotten most of the hurt from him, and had only some fond memories) but.....was being cautious, i thought. besides that - i'd grown and changed a lot - and learned a lot - and had enough hurt times in between - and was more independent, and happier with myself and felt i was more savvy. i figured he must have grown up too - which is what he actually said - he was just ready to find that good woman and settle down, his wild times were in the past. but as i said - he had told me about this woman and that one, etc. - and one of them he was still good friends with, and once he even said "see, i am capable of having a relationship". so the weeks go by - we're e-mailing and he's phoning (RED FLAG - I DID NOT HAVE ANY TELEPHONE # FOR HIM EVER!). it wasn't long before i felt like i had a long time ago in love, walking on air- and was starting to think maybe the time has come - i mean, after all, you read and see these people who re-unite after many years with old loves. maybe it was perfect timing. so the communication started heating up. and he was saying all the right things. isn't it time i find a good man and settle down, wouldn't i like to raise (instead of schlepping into a job i don't like), etc etc. he also told me he'd not been with a woman for 2 yrs., he was living in a buddy's place in the woods, there was no phone (that's why he couldn't give me a phone #!!!), he just enjoyed the peace and quiet around him, he was a loner like me, we were so much alike and on and on. somewhere in there - after withholding the info. for a time - he confided that he had re-married and it was a disaster - and since then he'd sworn off women. i won't go into the details - but it was the usual "she was a nut, she ran up thousands of dollars on his credit card, she told him some unbelievable sexual things she'd been involved with".
he kept throwing out the summertime to come visit.

somewhere in mid-April i developed a physical problem, which continued to worsen, just as things were heating up with him and i. (was this an omen i ignored?) anyway, it brought me down to my knees, literally, at times. i tried diff. treatments and nothing was working. so it's during this time that he's pushing the issue of a visit. well, i figured i certainly would be better by summer - and that was the plan. but at times i wondered why couldn't i just fly there for a short visit? (i didn't know why at the time - he was of course, living with someone else). so he kept pushing the visit here and then asking how long - 2 wks., a month? forever? i started getting nervous, dealing with the problem was enough as it was, but i still, by this time, wanted to get together with him. he was thinking the summer sometime. and i had plenty of time to get well. then he starts pushing for just packing up all his stuff and moving in with me, to see if it works, and if not, he'll just move on. (well, scary thought - i've lived alone all my life in a very small abode - big enough for just me and sometimes not even big enough for me!!!, plus i have grown to like my privacy, and coming and going to my own wishes).
but then i kept telling myself - well, nothing happens if you don't take chances, i can be smart about it - what have i got to lose?, nothing ventured, nothing gained. i was ready to start a new life. and if it didn't work out - i still had my life here, my friends, my job, etc. - and that brings up an interesting extra - he tried to talk me into retiring, and he and i could move to my parents' property, and we could travel and raise etc. by this time he was actually throwing out the "married" word too, telling me he had every intention of marrying me, not right away, but after we got used to each other again - and telling me that communication was so important and that he'd be so good to me.
(well, i can pat myself on the back for that one - i didn't quit my job!!)
i feel as though i'm giving too many details here - i hope not.
the next thing i know there's a glitch in the plan - he'll have to come up sooner than expected, either that or much, much later (and by this time i was anxious to see him). so, i said come ahead. i had also said time and time and time again - don't be fooling with me - if you're not serious - do not come near me. his answer was that we were too old to play games like that.
i know these belong elsewhere - but the glaring red flags before he got here were 1) i had no way to contact him, no phone, except e-mail. once he had called and suddenly had to just hang up! - i got a real sick feeling on that one - and did the *69 thing, but there was no phone # that could be given (he uses a calling card). he quickly called back with some bogus explanation - which i bought!
2) no phone where he was living - that's why he couldn't give me a #
3) family members tried to reason with me - wondering why he was moving so fast, why the rush, and why was he moving in with me?!~ why was i letting this happen. why not go slower, why don't i fly there for a visit, or why doesn't he fly here for a visit at first? i told them not to rain on my parade.
well, i'll have to return soon ...

Hi P-Proof and Betrayed,

Your posts bring back memories. Two years ago, Christmas, I was out of town with my family. I came home the next day to my house broken into. I was terrified. My children were with me of course. I was calm and composed for them. Inside I was horrified and terrified. Of course I called the police. The officer was very nice and supportive, I did not want the policeman to go; I was so scared. I think he sensed that from me; he stayed a long time. It took some time to get over that incident. I have no proof it was my Psychopath. I live in a neighborhood which is safe, people generally do not even lock their doors. To this day, I do not know, but I do know that my PTSD was worse for some time after that.

I think I would be capable of shooting an intruder. I am NOT a violent person. I do not own guns of weapons. I am just tired of abuse.

Neverthesame

Your stories are quite crazy, my P's were crazy but never was I stocked but when I read your stories I keep on thinking of a friend of mine. She had a lover for years, known for his weird relationship. She always felt something was wrong with the person but could really stop the relationship. Two years after she really cut him off, he is been coming back, with all kind of really terrible stories, she almost lost her life but what is interesting is her intuition. She always feel went he is probably around. She even dream of the man and the next day she will run into him. Or she starts sweating and then the man is there. That is why I think that the analogy that P-Proof was talking about, of the Tarantula is quite fantastic, because it seems that you all felt the hungry beast around, the one that you fear the most, as if your soul give you the power of intuition for defense. If I remember well, last month there was an article in Psychology Today about intuition... They say that when you had a bad experience you doubt more your gut feeling, you are unbalanced. And you have to relearn to trust yourself. Please listen to yourself.

>>>>I think I would be capable of shooting an intruder. I am NOT a violent person. I do not own guns of weapons. I am just tired of abuse<<<<

Hi (((Neverthesame))) It seems like they push and they push and they push, almost to provoke you into something. After the first couple of months of the stalking, I remember saying to myself, " I can't take anymore, I can't take this. This has got to stop, but I don't know how to stop it." People offered to stop him for me. They said if this was happening to their family, they wouldn't hesitate to do something. At this point the police still would not do anything. The people said the police don't ever do anything in this town. People have to take it in their own hands. I thought they, by even suggesting it, were as crazy as the P. I still, at this time, assumed the police would help. One of my friends said this is enough, I'm going to make the police listen. We went together to the womens center, to maybe get an advocate to come with us too. No one would come so we went alone. The police finally took a statement from me at that time. Never even talked to my friend, about what she had seen. Would not let her in the room while I gave a statement. I was a basket case.

As for defending myself, if I had had a gun in my home to protect us, theres no telling what I would have shot. When you are in that state, you could end up shooting the dog or worse, by accident.

I totally understand where you are coming from Neverthesame. The abuse that P's dish out, is so insideous. They manage to skirt their way around the law. They leave their little calling cards with no way to prove it was them. The laws are different where I come from. I have had people say to me, you know its illegal to carry pepper spray. Well its illegal to stalk someone too, but knowing the police around here, I'll probably get arrested for carrying pepper spray, god help me if I actually used it.

Betrayed.

>>>>>Two years after she really cut him off, he is been coming back, with all kind of really terrible stories, she almost lost her life but what is interesting is her intuition. She always feel went he is probably around. She even dream of the man and the next day she will run into him. Or she starts sweating and then the man is there. That is why I think that the analogy that P-Proof was talking about, of the Tarantula is quite fantastic, because it seems that you all felt the hungry beast around, the one that you fear the most, as if your soul give you the power of intuition for defense. <<<<<


Intuition:

When we had the store together, I had the weirdest dreams. My subconcious was trying to tell me about him. One was I had a dream about him cutting my hair ( hair is power, as in Samson and Delilah in the bible ), I was really upset at him in the dream for cutting my hair.


A little background for the next dream. The P was covered in tattoos and also did tattooing part time. I can't stand tattoos, and would never, ever date someone with them.

In this dream, I had, I was laying on a bed pretending to be sleeping, naked on my stomach. He was hiding in the corner of the room. He kept sneaking out of the corner and was tattooing love words all over each side of my lower back hip area, above them he was tattooing the most beautiful exotic birds I had ever seen. He thought I was sleeping the whole time, and that I was not aware he was doing the tattoos.

I told him the next morning about the dream,( but I left out the part with the love words, told him about the words, but said that I didn't know what they said.) I told him that he thought I was sleeping in the dream, but I was only pretending to sleep. I also told him that I was surprised, it did not hurt me in the dream to get tattooed. He asked me if I would like him to tattoo me. I said "No, I only liked the tattoos in the dream, not in real life.

Part of me knew he was putting me into trance, part of me knew he was stabbing me in the back.Part of me knew I had made myself naked and vulnerable to him. Part of me knew his "words of love" were meant to hurt in real life. The tattoo in the dream represented him, I didn't like him in real life only, in the dream.

If you have read "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin Debecker, Debecker talks about how powerful our subconcious is. He talks about how our subconcious picks up danger signals much faster than our concious brains. He talks about a guy in an office, where the Unibomber had sent a package. This guy, upon first spotting the package, made a joke about it being from the Unibomber and he was going back to his office before it exploded. Well, the package did explode, and the guy who made the joke survived. He had spotted subconciously that something was not quite right about the package. Debecker tells how we will sometimes make jokes about danger when it has not hit our concious brains.

This is what I did when we had the store. Made "jokes". Some of the "jokes" I made were, telling his friend, now that the P knows English so well, he's dangerous. I "jokingly" said when he had caught my finger in a fold up chair, "You're trying to murder me". First time he ever borrowed money off of me, I "jokingly" told him he was like a gigilo. I once "jokingly" made a comment about him being a male stripper. Every male stripper I have ever met is gay. My words come back to haunt me. I pay attention now to my dreams and the words I say.


Betrayed.