BeautyForAshes - if you are dealing with a psychopathic persona, you are not obsessing:)
Of course everyone will see it this way, because they are blinded by the "charm" and beautiful words.
Reality sucks and the truth is always ugly in these cases, that's why no one wants to believe it. Even when you've seen evidence it's still hard. I know I need to remind myself of the truth all the time. At first it was almost impossible for me to keep the "reasoning" for longer than a few minutes/hours. But with time you gain perspective, and it all becomes clear. That gives you the strength and the power over your mind.
I don't want to be nosy but what does she do to you, you haven't mentioned specifically, maybe we can help somehow.
Specifically, since I was little (I am the youngest of 3), my sister Karen* has regarded me being spoiled. As we grew older, she became jealous of my looks, abilities, and my boyfriends which she made fun of often. When I was 16, my boyfriend (now husband) Jeff* bought me a little trinket every time that he took the 32 mile round trip to see me. Karen would sneer and say "Oh? ......what did you do to get THAT? Fart?!!". She mocked me to my face, behind my back and competed with everything that I did.
Jeff drove a newer Trans Am when I met him. Months later, we were told by Karen's boyfriend Matt* that he "won" a Camaro (coincidentally the car was the same colour and year as Jeff’s Trans Am) in a bet with his boss. If Jeff bought something, Karen and Matt had to have it too. They put themselves in debt continually. It was stupid and annoying.
Matt worked for awhile in a towing company. Karen went with him while he towed illegally parked cars. She showed Jeff things that they took out of car’s glove box or trunk and kept. Jeff scolded her, telling her that she couldn't do that and that those things belonged to the car owners. She disagreed and said they were allowed to keep anything that they found in the cars.
When I was 21, Jeff and I had the first of a series of car accidents. There seemed to be a bull’s eye on us. We both had whiplash injuries. I had to quit my job and stay home to recuperate. My dad was a workaholic and when he wasn't at his daytime job, he would do yard work until dark every night. He didn't let any of us sit around either. We lived on 10 acres of land and had to plant trees, dig weeds, paint and whatever else he could find for us so that we didn't sit around 'getting fat'. I was unable to do much because of my injuries. Dad told me that I was making up my injuries to get out of helping. I had strict rules for when I was able to see Jeff. I wasn't allowed to talk with him on the phone for more than 10 minutes without Dad freaking out on me. One day I was hiding in the basement talking to my friend from school when my dad came downstairs. He assumed that I was talking to Jeff and started yelling at me. I was so embarrassed that I got off the phone right away. That was my breaking point. I couldn't live there anymore. I called my boyfriend at work, and asked him to come get me that night. Since I vowed never to live with anyone before marriage, I called then only person that I knew would help. Karen agreed to let me stay with her and Matt. Circumstances forced me to leave her house after only 2 weeks. I had no where else to go, so I moved in with Jeff and his sister. My things were still at Karen’s. I came back to check for mail and pick up a change of clothes as needed during the week.
After my insurance cheque from my accident was a week late, I called them. They said it was sent out and suggested that maybe it had been stolen. I called Karen to ask if she had ever had mail stolen. She said "no".
Around the same time, Matt told us that his friend Brett* (fresh out of jail for child molesting) came over every morning. They skipped school classes. Matt also said that he and Brett drove to the country to visit a friend. They had a girl from their class hanging around with them.
I was sent a copy of my signed and cashed cheque from the insurance company. The signature was so close to my own that I felt weak and my heart was pounding. The cheque was stamped on the back with a store name and was cashed in a small town that we’d never heard of. When we looked at a map, we found that the town was on the way to where Matt said that he and his friends visited. It came to me that copies of my signed insurance papers were in the drawer in the room I was using at Karen's house. Someone went through my belongings and found them.
Investigators made me sign my name on 20 pages. I was frustrated and embarrassed at having to do writing tests to prove that I didn’t cash my own cheque! I felt like a criminal. After this, I got all of my things out of Karen's house.
Karen and Matt moved not long after. She called one day to invite us to see their new place. I wanted to see the 'presents' Matt had gotten her for myself. Jeff and I sat with her in her living room as she named off all of the things that Matt had bought. She seemed proud as she told us how much each item cost: a used truck cap that cost __, a 10 kt gold opal ring that she had always wanted that cost ___, a used 10 speed bike...etc. I was doing the mental math and commented on how her new gifts totalled around $150 and that my cheque was for $152. She didn't answer me and continued to play dumb. When Karen gave us a tour of the house, Jeff and I saw Matt ducking under the blankets and pretending to be asleep. He stayed in their bedroom the whole time that we were visiting.
Karen has never admitted to nor apologized for Matt's stealing. My brother Aaron* lived with them off and on. Aaron witnessed Matt’s stealing and told to us that Matt had cut the neighbours' window screen and got into their house. One morning Matt was mad because he couldn't find his tool box. Karen demanded "have you seen Matt's tool box?!". My brother shrugged, said “no” and continued eating his breakfast. Karen got angry and said "WELL IT'S MISSING!". Aaron asked her "What's the difference? It's stolen anyway". Karen retorted "Well, that's not the point!".
I'm told by a reliable source that Karen often drove relatives (very well known for stealing) to drop off stolen merchandise. She wrote a letter to me in 1990 stating "I am not responsible and will not held accountable for anything I do". She's proven that time and time again, as no one confronts her but me. I wrote to Karen to tell her what I thought about her and Matt and I called him a thief. Matt phoned me shortly after and told me off. He responded by saying "I may be a thief, but one thing I don't do is steal from family!" He knew he stole, Karen knew it, Aaron knew it, --even my parents knew it...but how dare I even suggest such a thing! Dad bought building materials stolen by Matt from a nearby school ground. No questions were asked. He knew Matt stole it. Dad stole things himself and he and mom bought “hot” things from relatives as I was growing up. If he saw anything lying around and he thought no one was using it, Dad took it.
Jeff called my Dad and told him about Matt stealing my cheque. Dad listened and didn't say much. Years later, when everything blew up, Dad asked again why we didn't talk to Karen. Jeff repeated the reason and dad denied knowing anything about it--as usual.
A letter from Karen states that she has always hated my Dad and only visited for Mom's sake. She also states she had to make up for my brother and I not running to our parents' house every week. (martyr syndrome --she is expecting a big pay off for one day).
She always told people that Jeff was a show off and that he thought that he was better than everyone else. Mom and dad frequently had house parties. In one of her many drunken stupors, I watched as Karen sat on Jeff's lap, trying to kiss him. He laughed and pushed her off, calling Matt who had to carry her to the car to take her home.
I was severely depressed by the family situation. Karen phoned every morning at 9 am, and woke me up to give me [censored] for punishing our parents by living with Jeff.
She once told me "If you accept Matt, I'll accept Jeff". I refused. Jeff is honest, hard working and does not steal!
In October 1982, at 1:30 am, we had our 2nd car accident. This accident was particularly bad and we should have died. Thankfully, God had other plans. We were able to walk around, but shaken badly by what had just happened and shocked that we lived through it. Doing what most normal families would have done, we called our families to tell them what had happened. My parents moved to another home and I didn’t know their new phone number. I called Karen and told her the news and then asked for my parents' new number. She told me not to call because they were sleeping. Knowing how stupid my dad could get over things, I listened to her and didn’t call them. Her tone was disturbing. It was as if I was just calling to casually chat.
We had one more accident after that. Our money settlement was due later that year and we decided to finally get married. The date that we chose for our wedding was special to my husband's heart- it was his deceased father's birthday. We told our parents and friends. Shortly afterward, we were informed that Karen was getting married on that same day. Prior to this, Karen and Matt had never mentioned getting married. She had already been living with him for 6 years. We were so pissed off that we said "forget it" and waited 2 more years to try again.
Two months before our wedding in 1986, we visited my parents to tell them. The first 30 minutes of our visit were pleasant. Dad listened. Mom was happy. About an hour into the visit, Dad started saying his usual negative comments. We knew that it was time to leave. Jeff was already out the door and making his way to the car. Dad and Mom followed me into the kitchen where I was putting my shoes on. Dad asked sarcastically “why are you marrying Jeff when you’re only going to have to sign a paper later to get unmarried?”. That comment hit my heart like a bullet. He continued accusing Jeff of pulling the wool over my eyes among other things. This went on and on. This time I lost it. I had rehearsed in my mind for so long, everything that I wanted to say just poured out of my mouth with no effort. At 5 ft 6", I pointed to his 6 ft 2" frame and said “SHUT UP and SIT DOWN! This time I’M gonna talk!”. He looked stunned and slowly sank back into the couch like a little boy. His face went red. Dad sounded like he was trying to mock me but said quietly "okay... have it YOUR way...". Dad never shut up for anyone. I am the only one who has ever stood up to him. He ALWAYS talked over you and argued in circles. I proceeded to scream at Dad for an hour. To this day, I have no idea what I told him. The only thing that I remember saying was that someday something was going to happen and no amount of money was going to be able to fix it. Jeff was outside in the car with the windows rolled up. It was a very windy day. The house was 1500 square feet, the windows were closed and I was at the opposite end of the house but Jeff could hear me yelling. A week and a half later I called mom and told them all to stay home. She never stood up for me. My sister was an idiot. I wasn't speaking to Aaron at the time either because he had borrowed a large amount of money and didn't make any effort to pay anything back.
Dad told mom when Karen and I were teens that if we ever got pregnant before we were married that he would leave her. That was always in the back of my mind. We had been married 7 months when my aunt called in early January. The topic got on to when we were starting a family. I told her that we were trying. Karen, who had never talked about or shown any interest in having children was magically pregnant that same month. That was a pretty amazing feat considering the fact that she openly spoke about never having sex.
I conceived in March.
When Karen’s baby Angie* and our baby Abby* were born, we got back together for "the children's sake". Jeff and I hoped it would different with children around to take the focus off of each other. Karen later told me in private that she purposely got pregnant before me. She said she didn't want Angie to have to share grandparents with anyone. What's more, Karen said that Matt's parents favoured their other grandchildren and she wanted Angie to have all of the attention of our parents for herself. I confronted her about this in the family email a few years ago. She knew that everyone else read what she said, and twisted it around to make me look like a liar.
Jeff and I always spoke openly about wanting two children. Not even a year after Angie was born, Karen tried to have a second baby. A year after that, I had my second child and her second child Ted was born one year and one day later! Karen stated with little emotion, that she only had Ted so that Angie would have someone to play with. While Karen sat on the phone all day, Angie became Mommy to Ted. She diapered, fed and played with him. Karen was a little tearful as she told me that Ted was confused and called Angie "Mommy" because he didn't know which of them was his mother. Karen took a short break from the phone and meddling then continued on in her ways. 24 years later, She told my daughter that she would have been fine never having children at all.
My brother, Aaron was never happy. Dad never approved of his life or had anything good to say to him. In Dad's eyes, Aaron was a failure and stupid. He Aaron killed himself in the late 1980s at age 28. The day we buried Aaron, Matt and I hugged and I said "no more fighting". He agreed. I felt that all was genuinely forgiven between him and I. Nothing else seemed important in comparison to a family members death. To this day, Matt will come up to my girls and I and hug us. He has never apologized or acknowledged anything but doesn't seem to continue on like Karen does. It is said that suicide either makes or breaks a family. In our situation, it seemed to make us closer at first but that didn't last for long.
I was in an armed robbery at my job in the early 1990s. No one in my family understood what I was going through except my husband. Abby and our second daughter Lisa* were too little. Dad questioned me ad nauseum about why I wasn’t working. To this day, I have struggled and no one seems to get it. It isn’t the most fantastic memory, having a sawed off rifle put 8 inches away from my head and I still have nightmares. I found out recently that relatives were told in my 12 year absence that I had a disease.. something to do with a robbery.. PTSD… yes… a disease.
Around early 1994, I became aware of the sexual abuse. Pieces were returning and through counselling I was able to finally make sense of so much in my life that didn't make sense before. I made arrangements to meet my sister and share what had happened with her in hope that as sisters, she would support me. Her initial reaction was shock. She told me that she was sorry that it happened but couldn’t understand how. If I was 4, that made her 7. She reasoned that if it happened to me, she would know about it. Jeff and I went to Mom and Dad's sporadically after this but watched the kids extremely close. I was too scared to confront dad incase (as most victims think, that I was wrong somehow, even though I had too much proof that pointed to his guilt. I was more scared that mom would reject me.
One day in 1996, I called to make arrangements to visit. Dad answered and said he and mom were going ‘shopping’. He never asked Mom what she wanted to do and gave his usual crap about anything I tried to make conversation about. A few weeks later he mailed his first of several horrible letters. Jeff called me at work and told me what the letter said. He had reached his breaking point of being quiet so that I didn’t get it worse from Dad. A heated phone call ended with Dad calling Jeff’s dad stupid (his dad died in 1962. Jeff said “leave my Dad out of this, he’s been dead since ’62, (expletive)! You don’t even know my family. How do you know they’re stupid?” Dad’s reply? “I only have to look at you to know how stupid they are”.
Dad told Jeff "It's my right to shock people. They need to be shocked because they're so stupid. They need to be shocked out of their existance". It wasn't unusual for comments like this to be followed by "do you want to play horse shoes? (or lawn darts or whatever) had we been there in person. We would look stunned at him and he just didn't seem to get it. One time Jeff said "F*ck this!" after one of Dad's routines. I got told by mom later that what Jeff swore at dad wasn't nice. Hello? Both Karen and Dad do [censored] to people and then when we protest and call them on it, they then turn around and say that we are living in the past and should stop dwelling on things. (Convenient for them not to have to acknowledge their actions and apologize). The insults grew worse (as posted in other replies on forum). At the end of the conversation, Jeff made it clear to Dad that there was to be no more gifts, no contact. Nothing. Dad was used to using money and power to get his way. Mom sent birthday cards for 12 years, telling our kids that she and my dad loved them from "afar" and other guilt comments (once even telling our youngest that she could have her gift if her parents brought her to see them). We sent cards/cheques back or ripped them up. No child deserves guilt. Our kids would NOT be bought or used as pawns. Karen never stopped taking her kids there regardless of the threat of safety around my Dad. The kids stayed overnight often and became very close to my parents.
Mom never spoke against my Dad. His word was final and she never left his side or disagreed. His letters always stated that she agreed with everything even though he was the one writing. When Karen moved out of the house to live with Matt, my Dad freaked and left the house. As Mom cried her heart out thinking that he had left her for good, she stated that if she ever had to choose between Dad and us kids, she would choose Dad. Remembering that, I already had my answer. She was never going to see the kids without my Dad. They were connected at the hip and rarely did anything separate.
Since my parents weren't allowed to see our children, Karen took it upon herself to take photos of our children at school events. We told them all NO PICTURES. My dad coudn't be bothered coming to the occasions so why did they deserve pictures? Karen continued her sneaky ways. On my daughter Abby's* 11th birthday, Karen hauled a trash bag full of birthday and Christmas gifts to Abby's classroom. Abby was upset and crying. The teacher called me and when I protested and said send them back, she suggested that since Abby was already given the gifts, that I should just let her keep them. Our family was very upset and angry. Abby's birthday was ruined. We had to involve school administration and inform Karen by letter to stop harassing our children. There was to be no contact-period.
My dad died in 2008. I felt relief. Without Dad's interference, maybe we could finally get along. Everything seemed fine for the first year. Karen was very helpful and sweet, always inquiring about how the family was. She was very loving to them when we'd meet at Mom's house. I cut off ties with most of my relatives for about 30 years. There was too much nonsense going on. Now I felt it was time to test the waters to see if anything had changed. We were all getting older and I wanted my daughters to know a little about their families they have never known. Gradually, I was made aware that anything that I trusted Karen with after 12 years absence was being repeated again to others. I confronted her by writing an open email to her, her family and my Mom. I wanted everyone to hear my words and not have what I said interpreted by anyone else. Karen had been gossiping about Matt, Angie and Ted to others and I asked her to stop for their sakes. True to the actions of a psycho, she wrote back that she asked if they minded if she told others about their lives. They both said that they didn’t care. That was her interpretation of telling everyone they partied too much and didn’t know how to handle money.
None of them liked it because we came back to the family. Karen told people who didn’t even know me that she had to watch me to make sure I didn’t spend too much of Mom’s money. At the same time, she told me “Mom has more money than either of us have ever dreamed of. We have to help her spend it or she’ll have to pay too much in taxes”. Wth? I guess with so much money on the line, her kids stand to lose too much if they go against their Mom.
In response both Angie and Ted told me to grow the F up and stop sponging (off my Mom). Ted lied and said Karen never said anything bad about us. He also informed me that I was nobody to him and he didn't care about my family. Matt, who seems to have straightened out, stays out of everything. By staying out, he enables Karen to plow her path of destruction, unstopped. Needless to say, gossip and the other crap has continued. They must like it that way.
In the last few years since Dad died, Karen has privately apologized to Jeff for lyng about him to her children. She never anyone else that
she did this. (It seems that psycopaths cover their asses well and only admit to things in private knowing that no one can prove it later.)
At age 8, Angie in an annoyed tone, said "Uncle Jeff, you're a pain in the butt!" Karen never corrected her. It was obvious that Angie heard Karen refer to Jeff this way before. We were stunned by the disrespect. Our children were never allowed to speak to anyone in that way. When we got back together after our 12 year absence, Angie didn’t even want to acknowledge Jeff because of the lies she was told by Karen.
I didn't see Karen and Matt from 1982-88 when Angie and Abby were born. Things broke off from 1996-2008 when my Dad died. That's almost half of my life. Karen wrote to me that when things broke off again, she was hurt and shocked. When she gossips about me not talking to her anymore, she describes our decision to stay away having happened because of 'misunderstandings' on my part.
Karen can be summed up in 3 phrases:
she blames everything that she does on someone else (she says she's a Christian and the devil caused the problem which excuses her accountability).
she copies everything
she lies about everything
Jeff, the girls and I have broken off ties once and for all with Karen and her family about 18 months ago. This time it's for good. No one can say that we didn't try.
Mom has begged for a great grandchild for several years. Not long ago, Karen persuaded her to buy Angie a house. It is now paid in full and Mom has also paid a HUGE amount of outstanding credit charges. At 23 years old, Angie owns her own house, is not a good money manager but will never have to worry about a mortgage. Even though she will learn nothing from actually having to work for whatever she has, Angie is set for life. Karen, not wanting anyone to get ahead, got Mom to buy her own great grandchild. Angie is not married, seeks out rich men, and doesn't seem to care about who gives her a baby-- just as long as she gets one... she just gave birth to one this week. Mom is ecstatic. Angie and her baby are the most perfect, beings in Mom's eyes. God help that kid.
I don't know what anyone can tell me about coping. It isn't any one thing that Karen does to me. It's a combination of injustice, twisting everything that I say, meddling, lieing about my family and I to anyone who will listen, never ending competition. Karen said that if she isn't allowed tell her friends anything (gossip) then she will find people that she doesn't know and tell them because she doesn't believe in secrets and just can't hold it in! She is helping me somehow, I guess by telling my most private feelings to a room full of people and then critiqueing what I've said. SHE ALWAYS GETS AWAY WITH IT! I don't want to hate anyone but can't help waiting for all of it to come crashing down. I have to resign myself to the fact that just like Mom chose my dad over her own children, she has also chosen my sister and her family over me and mine. I represent everything she doesn't want to deal with and would rather forget. I am trying really hard not to hurt. We will distance ourselves, block out Karen as much as possible, be civil to Mom and visit her but try to ignore all of banners and fanfare concerning Karen and her super family. She's just getting worse now and there are more mini-Karens in the making
. Thank God I have the most amazing husband and daughters or I might have cracked up or killed myself.
In answer to your question: She makes me crazy. I want to bang my head on my desk and not stop. She's like a fly that I can't kill-buzzing around my head, taunting me, then escaping before I can get my hands on her.......an infection that just---won't--- GO ----AWAY.
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