You shouldn't worry, first, in all my research on Ps, I never came across this website until 3 -4 weeks ago. my story really differs from most of the women i know and that at many different layers. and one of the ps i am talking about is an highly educated person that may know about his problem and that spend a considerable amount of time on internet researching. that is why i prefer not to say too much but you all have similar stories in a way even mine seem similar if i don't get in details. i wouldn't worry if i were you.

I don't know. Probably she is but she is loosing it as well. She is visiting her family in another country so for the moment she is no in danger. But it is very scary. Her stories relate to some I have read on this site. It is funny, something I question my gut feeling, I was never physically hurt my that p#2, just emotionnally, but I do feel there is something so wrong with all his stories, with all that tension that i felt that i wonder what is behind all that. Don't want to find out , but i wondering. I have bad feelings about all that.

>>>>flag" i didn't know at the time - i often wondered why he'd tell me this or that - esp. some things with the "last" woman - the one he had married and got burnt by so much. he'd say inappropriate things - but i chalked it up to having been so deprived for 2 yrs. and boy, he was really desiring and saving himself for me!! <<<<<

When you chalked it up to him being so deprived, I can understand that. In my experience, usually the only people that talk a lot about sex, are the ones that aren't getting any. LOL I have had to re-think that one, however. Many abusive types always bring sex up I've noticed. Its none of my business, what anyone has done previously in the bedroom. Its very inappropriate, its very dis-respectful. Objectifying sex, instead of a lovely caring, intimate act. I wouldn't ever dream of bringing up my sex life with a previous partner to a potential new one. All it would do is cause harm and jealous feelings, which I guess that is exactly what a P is aiming for.


>>>>.....so essentially one day i thought i had about 1 mo. before he got here - and the next day the plans were changed and urgent - he had to get up here now or not for 2 or 3 months<<<<<<

He set you up good here, carrot on the stick technique. Luring you with the bait, till he knows you're interested, then saying he was going to take it away, unless you bite instantly. Man, they are good! Until you recognize the technique, and then it just looks pathetic!


>>>>>i just thought he's so in love with me - he can look but he'd never touch - he'd never betray what he wants with me!<<<<<

Don't ever buy that one. That guys can look but not touch. Automatically assuming that all men are ruled by their penis. That one has been pushed upon women for generations. The only guys I know that look are ones trying to get their partner jealous. Control technique. When guys check me out, when they are with or without their partner, I feel violated by them as well as seeing that they are abusing their partner. Any guy that wants to get to know me, talks to me as a person, doesn't just look at the outside package. Otherwise, they are disrespecting me.

Betrayed.

>>My friend psychologists tell me repetively anything that has do with the P is bound to trouble, that is, actions motivated by P affects, any related persons, any professional adventures, anything thus I tell myself everytime that I feel the urge to act, " I should respect myself more and turn the corner."<<

Hopeful, I just want to tell you that what you said in this post saved me from making a big mistake. It use to be that I would call the P., when I needed someone to cover for me on business deals. I needed someone to help me recently, so I didn't loose an out of town client. I read what you wrote and it stopped me. I found other ways to make things work, that day.

>> I understood the unhealthy behind that feeling and I have to run away from that, I know that my sanity is delicate (I feel P and his world is a deep dark hole) and if I like indeed to live I have to respect myself and to do so I have to repress those temptations of acting on P's evilish territory or against his flow.<<

Ditto, hopeful, I have cut off almost all business ties and friendship ties (if you would call it that)now for about 3 months with the P. It has been a struggle, but I'm gonna make it. If I act against the P's flow, he seems to get a kick out of it. It is pleasurable for him. I think it is his way of reasurring himself that he still has some control over me.

On the NPD website it talks about getting them out of our system, not just physically, but out of our brain. What a task. The P. put so much garbage in me, that I am trying to sort my life out and learn to live again. Like you said hopeful, it is all about self respect.

On rare occassions, when I do speak to the P., I see that all his actions, words, body language, etc., absolutely all of it is part of his scenarios he builds up around himself. I am able now, most of the time that is, to see right through his words, and tell myself, he is just trying to get to me. Last time I talked to him on the phone, after the conversation I just smiled, and thought of this forum. He once told me he knew how to get at me, and that he did. I am begginning to believe that the P. is very aware of his games, and plans them out, carefully chooses his targets.

One time I wanted to warn his current "main target" about him. I actually like this girl at the office. She is alot like how I use to be. He caught her and I talking and laughing one day and ever since then he has really concentrated on making her "his" office whore. I know that really sounds awful. He gets these girl (all of them are office personell) to do things for him, things beyond their regular job duties. And he makes them really want to do things for him. That is part of the spell. He does everything I have read about on here. He listens and works so hard on making a very deep emotional connection. He also does the slow long grin and gets within the targets personal space as part of his capturing the target phase. (I as so shocked when I read someone elses post on here, talking about that grin). What an eye opener for me. He use to do that to me. He takes the so called friendships beyond friends, that is on a verbal level, no sex (at least I don't think he sleeps with any of them), sexual inuendos, teasing, flirting. Gives the target wonderful attention. Knows just the right words to say. Basicly he makes you feel so special, and in reality it is all an illusion. I had seen how he can just blow people off. I thought I was different, because I had put and end to all that BS crap he does. I told him we can work together (we were business partners) and he didn't need to flirt with me. And he did quit doing that with me. I genuinely liked him, as a friend. We worked so good together for awhile, no flirting, no BS, just had fun working. I thought since I wasn't one of his play girls, that he wouldn't have a reason to just toss me aside. I had been building up in my mind what our business partnership was really about (somone else had posted about that build up also). Only to find that none of it was true.

When he started exploiting other woman in the office. I just couldn't stand to see him, treating woman the same way he had treated me. I was so blind, and now they are so blind. He flat out told me he was using them. Told me he wasn't using me, that our friendship was real and that he didn't do any of that crap with me. Imagine that. I wanted to believe him so badly.

He use to tell me that he was protecting me from the other men in the office that they only wanted to pimp me (I'm talking about "whore" in a business since). I now wonder who was suppose to be protecting me from him. He persues his targets, as far as he can, without crossing the line, or so he says. He teases and says he won't cross the line unless they want to. The sad thing is most of these women are married and getting caught up in his game of deciet and lies, and they all just think he is so wonderful. I guess I am the fortunate one to now know.

I have probably already posted some of these things. But it does me so good to write them again, makes it so real to me. Can't live in my delusion anymore.

Thanks everybody,
betterway

Thanks Hopefull. What I use to just see, was the tip of the iceberg, and knew to stay away from certain people. I would sit back and recognize that my instincts were good. Now that I can see below the surface of these types, its pretty ugly underneath.The secret lives they live. UGH!! One giant clue was always that their story didn't completely make sense, and I felt confused, trying to make sense of it. My favorite saying use to be and still is, "If it doesn't make sense, somebody's lying." I think that's how the P initially got around me. his stories never made sense, but I attributed it to him speaking in a language that he was just learning and was not that familiar with. I am still appalled that he managed to get in under my radar. Once they get under the radar, they are almost homefree. As soon as they have "earned your trust", you tend not to question someones trustworthiness. Everything becomes a confusing blur after that.

Betrayed.

>> set you up good here, carrot on the stick technique. Luring you with the bait, till he knows you're interested, then saying he was going to take it away, unless you bite instantly. Man, they are good! Until you recognize the technique, and then it just looks pathetic!<<

Oh, so so pathetic, now. The P built up this wonderful friendship I thought we had. And when I started having problems with how he chose to exploit others right in front of me, he started taking away little by little, what we had, and it hurt so bad, and I fought it all the way. Only to see him be so evil and loving it all the way. He told me I should accept him for who he was and what he was, and he knew I knew what he really was by this time. When I refused he tried and almost succeeded in destroying me. betterway

>>>> I am begginning to believe that the P. is very aware of his games, and plans them out, carefully chooses his targets.<<<<

I think it is uncomprehensible to normal people how much energy and time that P's spend plotting and planning their every move and manipulating everyone in their vicinity. Their every move is scripted, is part of the game. It must be exhausting for them to be constantly playing a giant chess game, using people as pawns. Using one to effect so many others. They manage to make it so confusing, you can't see the forest for the trees. Until you figure out you are playing a game with them, and then you don't play. You can't win in their games, they have been playing them their whole lives. The ONLY way to win, is don't play.

Betrayed.

>>>>He also does the slow long grin and gets within the targets personal space as part of his capturing the target phase.<<<<

Is this the one you are talking about? That long slow grin that is used whenever they "gotcha". It's so filled with spite and malice and hatred. I get the shivers remembering it.

Betrayed.

betrayed,
The grin I am talking about is the grin he uses during the initial seduction. I found the post it was in, Cheri wrote on 8/4/02 in P. Charaxterstics: 1. superficial Charm, "And then there is the "slow gaze" thing where he would look at the woman suggestsively and that stupid fake grin". Cheri describes how her P. acted in the office. She describes my P. exactly. That slow gaze and fake grin are so discusting now, almost makes me sick to think about it.

I also know the grin you are talking about, betrayed. In the destroy phase, the P. would give me an evil grin, when he makes a point, or he would just grin in general when he was out in the office making comments or acting like a P. acts, to get at me. And then he's got the evil quiet laugh, I would here in the office, and I would wonder, what the heck is he doing now. I did learn to tune out alot of the crap, or maybe I just became numb to alot of it, like some of you have talked about.

betterway

continued.....
i'd like to get this saga done before Christmas - i can fill in details later. so the P. drives to my place in record time. i figured we'd talk and re-acquaint for awhile - but he just hopped right into bed. (i know it takes two - and i could have said no - but i didn't , yet felt really weird about it all - later he said he didn't mean for it to begin like that, but....
so in he moves - even if it had been a normal person (and a normal person wouldn't have just moved in like that, they'd have taken an apt. somewhere, and then gradually would have built (or not) a friendship/relationship) anyway, even if he'd been normal, a pretty much complete stranger moving in with a person who's always lived alone - was CULTURE SHOCK!(Even under normal circumstances - it's hard to do)
but i was willing to try my best to have the "love of my life" and make it work, and figured we could always move elsewhere and just make do until then. once he moved in, my privacy was annihilated. my routines were no more. my life as i'd known it was turned upside down, to say the least. NOW I HAD SOMEONE THERE ALL THE TIME - IN A VERY SMALL PLACE. (and i had allowed it). besides that i have trouble actually sleeping with another person.
a couple days after he got here - i went with him to take his stuff he'd brought in a u-haul to a storage unit. i remember looking at what he'd brought and thinking it was a bunch of dusty, old, worn-out clothes and things. (i recall some other posts where people said they collect junk - he was no exception). and his truck was filthy. his excuse was he didn't have time to clean it up before he got here, etc. and he didn't have time to get some major work done on it. interesting - he had a dusty Bible under the seat - said he never went anywhere without it!
He infiltrated every aspect of my life all at once. i didn't visit my family without him, he came to work and made himself known to everyone, my friends met him. but he was SO NICE - HE'D JUST DO ANYTHING FOR ME - COOK, CLEAN, FIX THINGS. and he made sure he told everyone within hearing distance how much he was doing for me - and how good he was to me - and he only existed to make me happy. he put on the shows, that's for sure. he was just so smooth around everybody. he used my p.o. box (and picked up my mail all the time). meanwhile i'm still dealing with a physically painful problem that isn't going away. that put a crimp into it all, for sure. mostly it put a crimp in his bedroom plans - he didn't really give a crap how i felt. he'd be "sympathetic" and do all he could - but one day he just blurted out "ya know - a less tolerant man would have been out of here by now". i didn't say anything at the time - i just thought "gee, he's great". only later i realized what he'd really said.
he was making me feel like i was a pain in the ___. and so i'd try and do better.
during about the first week we'd talk - and basically he was mirroring every little like or dislike i'd say i had.
then he'd get these movies - he was always suggesting good movies - they were movies with "feel-good themes", with people who did the right things, with stories where right triumphed over evil, tear-jerking movies with uplifting morals - "Pay It Forward", "The Green Mile", and some goofy love stories. Then he'd say "Boy, i can really pick 'em, can't i?" and i'd be so impressed. so the first week went by with talking, movies, etc. he once told my family at that time that we were spending quality time together!!
and he told them his sole job in life was to make their daughter happy. i mean, how could it get any better than this?!
at the time he came my computer was down. i had taken it to get fixed before he got here - and they didn't fix the problem, whatever it was. so i just let it slide - i didn't really need it. but he was very insistent on getting it fixed. (BIG, FLASHING, RED FLAG). so he schlepped it back and forth a couple more times, hooked it
up, and got it working, (i of course, paid for it - so far we hadn't discussed splitting living expenses either, and he (surprise, surprise) never brought it up. said he knew a little about them, and wanted to write to his daughter when she got her e-mail up and running. i thought - well he doesn't have a job here, and he's alone here all day while i'm at work - and it's something for him to do - he even asked me about computer courses around the area. a couple times he wrote to my e-mail address at work - and then i'd answer from work.
so once the computer was up - he was on it regularly. another thing with him was he couldn't sleep - he either had to take pills or stay up watching TV or whatever.
well, the first MAJOR BIG ONE happened one night early on - i think it was about the 2nd week he was here - i woke up at 2 am and saw a glow from the living room, and heard the computer keys being tapped. i walked out, looked over his shoulder and read a letter to a woman telling her he was in ___ working for ____, and would be here for a couple months. then the letter asked if she'd consider giving his fiance ____ an interview for a job. he made no move to delete it - i had time to read it - and he just sat there - dumbly staring at the screen. need i say i was shocked!?!
so i let go with "what the hell's going on? what are you writing?", trying to keep from throwing up at the same time - since a VERY SICK FEELING came over me at that moment - and it flashed through my mind to throw him out - right there - into the yard - GET OUT! but just as casually and unaffected as could be - he got up, went to the faucet for a drink or something (must have been concocting the story as he did that) - and started to tell me that he had promised an old friend he'd help her out back home - and he was just now writing asking for the favor. so i started picking it apart. "what do you mean you're working for ___?". (his answer - it's a guy thing, i don't want her to think i'm not working). "what do you mean fiance ____?" (his answer - i just put that in there thinking it would get her a better chance for an interview with this woman). i'm trying to understand - i really am - so i'm asking and asking. it was around this time that a look i'd remembered from 18 yrs. ago came over his face - it was the non-way of looking at me - i had remembered that- it was sickening. and he's just so cool about it all.
he says - it's nothing, i was just trying to help her out, i didn't even send it yet, look, i won't send it - see i deleted it. i asked "what's this about ___ [the job]". he says - i can go work for them tomorrow - right here in this state - but i wanted to square things away with you and i before i did that. i then proceeded to ask him why he'd lie like that - why would he lie to this woman about a fiance - when the woman goes for the interview - she's going to lie too? - i mean why all the lies - about everything? it didn't make sense!
....anyway, right then and there i should have gone with my instincts and that was GET OUT OUT OUT. but i didn't. i went to sleep - alone - trying to make myself buy his stories. and after a couple days - i did - i gave him the benefit of the doubt but told him he'd destroyed my trust - and now it would have to heal - and that you can't have a relationship with anyone without trust. (to be cont.)...