I think that my 19 year old daughter has ASPD. She constantly lies to us. We can't trust a thing she says, down to the simplest most unimportant things. She'll lie about where she ate-Arby's when it was Taco Bell. She CAN NOT tell the truth to save herself. Of course there are the big lies too. She has had one night stands with guys she just met that night. She slept with her boss. She also had been sleeping around with a 28 year old from her work when she was 17. She is currently living with a 40 year old. This is the second man that she has lived with since graduation. She has also been very disrespectful. She calls her dad an [censored] and constantly tells me, "[censored] you", "you're a stupid f_cking [censored]", "i hate you". She said that we fail as parents and that we caused her to be like she is.There has NEVER been an apology for ANYTHING!!! She has told people that I've done things that I've never done. She tries to make me look crazy. She left her facebook up and I read some of the stuff that she said about me. She's a compulsive liar, who will use anyone to get what she wants. People have written me nasty things and told me to get help, all because she told them that I was crazy and hacked her facebook. She told me on Mother's Day that she didn't love me, and didn't think that she ever did love me. She also said that she has never felt guilty about anything. She mysteriously lost her best friend after 8th grade, blaming the girl for being stuck up. I now think it was all my daughter because she is incapable of maintaining friendships. She's now trying to get me to feel bad for her separation from our family. She says that she doesn't know what she did. I feel like I don't even know my daughter. Everything she told me was a lie. I don't know her likes or dislikes, they keep changing with who she lives with. I feel like she never enjoyed being with me, she just used me for a place to live and for money. The financial support has stopped. I had to cut contact down to a minimum because of my sanity, my marriage, and her 14 year old sister. My 14 year old tells me not to give her sister another chance, that she'll just hurt us all over again. My head tells me to keep away, but my heart holds out hope for her. How does a mother end contact with her own daughter? Where did my girl go?

Hi momminus1, welcome to our community. I am sorry for what pain you are in over your daughter.

I think your 14 year old daughter is very wise in what she is saying. It is very difficult beyond belief when it is your child. Please know there is nothing that you did wrong. You could have been a super hero mom and the results would be the same, unfortunately. The conscience forms between 3 - 5 years of age so essentially your dreams for your daughter took another path at that point.

She is following all the typical patterns, she sees herself as the victim so sadly, there is nothing you can do because to fight back and try to defend yourself just doesn't work. You have nothing to defend. If you were such a rotten person, there is no way your young daughter would be as wise as she is. There is no excuse and even in the cases where people had lousy childhoods doesn't make them into a Psychopath. They are born, not created.

She may not know what she did because her entire world is focused on herself, they lack the capability to see any other views beyond their own. Self reflection is not part of their makeup.

It helps them to remain in the position of the victim and pointing at you and your family as the bad guys, that is part of the isolation process. People feel sorry for her and she uses that to lure them into her web of deceit.

To try to defend yourself is a futile exercise, yes she will bad mouth you, that happens in the process of behavior to isolate you from others. It must be unbearable because you know in your heart of hearts that you and your family did everything they could. The part that must be most wrenching is that in order to save your own family you need to protect yourself from her. Your younger daughter needs you now more than ever. It is good that she is seeing things as they are so you can be assured her older sister won't turn her into a negative person toward you and your husband.

You mentioned not having friends when young. Were there moments when she was very young that you started to question her actions?

Please be kind to yourself, you didn't do anything wrong, there was nothing you can do or should have done, the results would have been the same. The more you can keep your family under her radar and away the better your life will become. It must be a terrible place to be as a parent to know that the only way to deal with the situation is to cut off contact.

When you are comfortable sharing more we can help support you through this difficult time. It must be a nightmare to even have to acknowledge that she will never change. You do need to remember that there was nothing you could have done that would have changed the outcome of what she is today. I am sure if you look back you will see that she has been this way her entire life and being good parents I am sure you probably tried harder and harder to love her and Psychopaths are unlovable. They only care for themselves.

I am sorry for what brought you here.

Di

Thanks so much for the advice/information. I need to be reminded of all that. It's just so difficult for me to believe that I raised a child like that. I know in my head that I was a good mother, but then I second guess myself. We are a good, normal family, though. There is also the "why me?" part of it. I try to tell myself that some families have kids with downs syndrome or cancer, the AsPD just happens to be what our oldest daughter has.

In retrospect, I see lots of signs, but who would ever have guessed they were leading to this? She always lied more than I thought was normal. There were at least 3 cases where she minorly hurt someone at school. She has a very poor attention span and we were convinced that she had ADD. All these instances could have been attributed to her not paying attention to what she was doing, but now I think otherwise. She always seemed to be in a world of her own. For example, she'd start singing while you were talking to her. There were so many teachers in grade school (K-8) that she/we thought didn't like her. I just couldn't understand why she was always being blamed for things. She had one best friend during those years. After a camp the summer after 8th grade, the girl said that she couldn't be my daughter's friend anymore-no explanation. My daughter said that her friend wanted to make new popular friends in high school. I was at a loss, but now I'm sure that my daughter must have betrayed her friend. Other than this friend, I was the only person that she really bonded with. She never, even as a small child, would just go hug anyone else or sit in their lap. It wasn't that she was shy, just not interested. I thought that she could be mildly autistic due to only bonding with me and being in her own world. Looking back, I guess I made a lot of excuses for her in my mind. Who would have ever thought that she was a Psychopath? I just thought that she was a strange kid. Her IQ is very high, so I thought she was bored with a lot of people and things.

Things got noticeably worse after puberty. The lies increased, the bad behavior became worse, and I noticed the preoccupation with guys. Much of what she said and did I questioned. There were too many coincidences to be believable, yet I had no proof for most of them. I doubted her, and she acted deeply hurt, so I told her that I hoped things weren't true and I'd take her word for it. This was usually after long question periods where things didn't add up, the world was against her, but I just had no proof (only gut feelings). She never had a close friend in high school. In fact, whenever she got a friend at all, it didn't last long. There was cheating on tests, plagiarizing, and she even brought a flask to school. I would be told repeatedly how she was near the top of the class, or the best at something, only to find out the contrary. She had boyfriend after boyfriend. Each relationship ended with her cheating on the guy. January of senior year was when she couldn't hold it together any longer. Things went downhill fast. She would threaten to not come home. I had to fight to get her to school everyday. She yelled at me a lot. She got a 25 year old boyfriend. Her behavior was so bizarre that I thought she might be on drugs. I even went to an Al-Anon meeting. She pretty much fit the criteria, but I searched her car and room and really don't think that was the case. Plus she had drug tests for employment then, and passed.

After graduation came lie after lie and guy after guy. She would have a boyfriend, but I found out about one night stands, sex with guys from work, and other rendezvous. This was the worst period for name calling directed at me. This was also when I noticed her telling lies about me to get others to believe her.

Right now she is 19 and living with a 40 year old man. I met him once to let him know why there are problems between my daughter and me. I'm sure she told him a different story. He said that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. If only he knew! I, of course, don't approve of this relationship, but that is not even my main concern right now. My daughter is! I think a normal 40 year old man wouldn't go for a 19 year old girl, but I know she charms and flirts. Two old boyfriends have told me that she came on to them and practically raped them. This guy denies that was the case. Part of me feels he deserves what he's getting, but he other part wants to help him. He seems to believe her over me, though.

I have been struggling with the reality of everything. I have to accept it. My precious daughter is not who I thought she was. My 14 year old will never have her big sister back the way she thought she had her. Everything was an illusion. A piece of me is missing. It's really like a death.

It is like a death, isn't it? And I think there's a big part of the process of coming to terms with it all which is to do with grief and mourning.

Thank you for posting. I understand that the clarity of thought you have, and the way in which you write, is the result of a great deal of pain on your part. I'm really sorry for everything that you've had to go through.

Hi momminus1, it is like a death without the funeral so closure can be very difficult if not impossible when it is your own child who you had great dreams for. I suspect your daughter would fall in the category of highly socialized and those are some of the toughest ones. The rest of the world will see her "good" acting side. Knowing what she is capable gives you that knowledge is power benefit. Even though no contact is the only way to deal with a Psychopath it must be an extra heart breaker to know you will need to do this in order to protect your daughter, husband and yourself. Isolation is a key factor so it is more than likely she is indeed blaming you, that is their stock in trade to gain status as the victim. Many will believe her but you know it isn't true what she says, lying to make herself the victim is just the sad part of the reality of how a Psychopath operates. It is good your husband and daughter see what you do, many times the other members don't and it can cause a divide in your own relationships which you need to protect. Follow your wise daughters advise, clearly you have been a great mother to have such a wise daughter. It is a gene that caused her to be this way, nothing you could have done to change things now or in the future will make any difference.

When you hear things she is saying it will take practice but you have nothing to defend and in defending yourself against her lies will only drag you down. Just scratch those people she has in her web off your list. You can try to defend yourself until you are blue in the face but sadly it will fall on deaf ears so save yourself the extra anguish, you know what is up. If people choose to believe her then that is their issue, not yours.

She will have many relationships and when she is involved with someone there is no reason to try and warn them, they won't "get it", she has gotten to them first with her sad tale of what a victim she is. You are right, what kind of 40 year old man would hook up with a 19 year old, that speaks loudly about him. He is clearly under her spell.

We are here for you.

Di

Thanks Starry and Diane. I'm having a difficult time right now. My daughter has contacted me and is blaming all of our problems on me. She's also blaming her separation from the whole family on me. My whole family, immediate and extended, is well aware of what she's done for years. I haven't had to brainwash them. Most don't even know half of the things she's done. It's too embarrassing. She's also still saying that everything that she did to me was in the past, so it's over and should be forgotten. Well, isn't every harmful thing that someone does to someone else in the past after it's done? What logic is that?

Sorry for the rant. I appreciate your responses. They help. I think I need to call a local mental health facility to try to find a support group for victims of psychopaths. Don't know if that will help, but I need help dealing with this and can't call my friends everyday.

You're always welcome to post on here, as much as you want. We will always take time to read what you say and listen with care and compassion.

By the way, I totally understand the 'making it seem as if it was all your fault' manipulation. My dad was really, really good at it too. He did the most outrageous things, and it was always someone else's fault. He was forever the victim.

Hi, yes there isn't any logic to what your daughter is saying, she is just exhibiting like Starry acknowledged their operating pattern.

I have a suggestion, I know it would be hard to just cut off all contact abruptly but maybe to work your way in that direction I have a couple of thoughts. How about if you only have one phone number that she can call. Make it a cheap land line in your home if you need to with Caller ID. Change your cell phone numbers so she only has access to you via that one phone number. If she wants to know or starts after you over your cell phone number, just tell her you got a new cell phone plan so you had to change the number. Do NOT give her the cell phone numbers but give her the land line number to call. You need your space so when you are trying to rest and be with your family simply unplug the phone so you won't even hear it ring. I think when someone is being harassed like you are clearly being the last thing you need is a feeling of panic when the phone rings because you know what the outcome of the call will be.

This might help you to be able to think straight and be focused on yourself and your family and not be a sitting duck for her attacks.

ALL Psychopaths consider themselves the biggest victims in the world, they can't see themselves as anything other than as a victim. Odd how it works because they are the ones who are victimizing others.

When she calls and does get you on the phone it is important to start setting up some boundaries on the calls and it will take a great deal of effort and pain for you to do. When she gets started simple tell her you have an appointment and have to go. You have nothing to defend. You were and are a great mother and there is nothing you can say or do that will change how she chooses to behave. It is truly sad but that is the reality of dealing with a Psychopath.

Hopefully if you are able to take this first step, then I would suggest talking to your family about just cutting off the land line eventually and removing her foul energy from your home by not giving her access.

Your family needs you and your daughter at home has already acknowledged that she doesn't want her around and I can guess she doesn't want to see you in such pain. Spend your time and energy with your daughter who needs you. You did nothing wrong. Having your husband and daughter on board already is a big hurdle that you don't have to make to convince them and they will support you but something has to happen to stop the crazy making blame game she is pulling on you.

Like Starry said, vent all you want here, we "get it" so just blast away and we'll be here for you.

If you want to find a support group or therapist be very clear you are in the right place. My therapist was all about blaming my parents and did little to help me move forward. I joined a support group for depression and hung in there for around 6 months. I liked the other people in the group very much and felt a great deal of compassion for them but I finally quit because it was making me more depressed.

Di

Thank you Starry and Diane. I do know most of what you're saying. I just have to be reminded because the whole situation is so unbelievable. Being reminded is also a form of support. That way I know it's not me. No wonder it's hard for others to believe, I have to keep reminding myself of how things were. I am feeling much better than I was this morning. For now I just see her words as so unbelievable and callous that it is making it easier to end all contact. She told me that I lost my daughter. I can block her on my cell phone and my land line has caller ID. That is perfect. She won't call, she only texts. With the land line, I still know that I can be contacted in case of a serious accident.

Thanks again.