Thanks for the support again. I guess since my daughter said, "You just lost a daughter", and I have honored that, she felt the need to contact her 14 year old sister by text message. She did this after the 14y/o should have been in bed for school. The 14y/o got the message while getting ready for bed and promptly let me know. She had already answered. My older girl asked for contact. She said that she missed her and wanted to know what was going on in her life. She wanted to have sisterly talks. She also mentioned that she knows "things will never be the same between me and mommy, and it's partly my fault". That girl had a wonderful childhood. We had lots of family time, went on hikes, played games outside (volleyball, frisbee, etc), rode bikes. She was involved in sports and activities that I took her to and helped coach or run some of them. We went on vacations. Extended family was close. She went to private schools. It was as close to ideal as you can get. I know many people say it takes two, and I know I wasn't a perfect mother (no one is), but I will accept no blame for my relationship with her. Before I began to shut her out, I gave her SO many chances. I defended her for so many things. I must have looked foolish. I was her human punching bag (not literally). So, I guess from all this, you can tell that she got to me again by getting to her sister. Her sister just tries to block it out. She told me about the text, but doesn't want to talk about it. I told her that we would talk about it today. That there is a reason her sister acts the way she does. I need my 14y/o to know the truth now. I don't want her to think it might have been my fault, or something that she did. I guess I have to change my 14y/o number.

Hi Monroe,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it was so nice to hear from someone else with a daughter that is a Psychopath. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but to hear from someone in my shoes, is incredible. My daughter didn't get bad until the second half of her senior year in high school. My goal was also to get her to graduate. I didn't realize that her problem was anything more than just teenage rebellion, although it seemed severe. It just didn't make sense, no one else I knew had a teenager act nearly as bad as her. Things went downhill fast! Everyone is right when they say to get her out. I don't know if you can do it, it took me until I just couldn't take things anymore. Even then, it was basically her choice. I set rules and told her if she couldn't accept them, she wasn't welcome in our home. She broke them, severely, and knew she was out. She always had a guy to stay with. In my mind, it was all planned in her mind. She would act good enough until she had a place to go, then she didn't care, because the guy would take her in.

It's so hard not having my daughter here. A piece of me is missing, but it was a daily hell when she was home. That was much worse!!! I feel sad for what I thought I had (loving daughter), but it is nothing compared to the constant what our family went through on a daily basis. I don't worry about her, because I don't know what she's doing. She has a place to live. My biggest fear is that she will mess up this relationship and come to us with fake remorse and tears.

My husband gave up on her long ago. I guess I was much like your wife. I couldn't give up on my daughter. She would come to her senses. Now, I can't even discuss my older daughter with my husband. I think he's too hurt. He wants to block it out, and I need to talk. It's not good. I have friends to talk to about it, but I try not to do it too much.

My 14y/o seems to see my side. I just hope that years down the road I don't get blamed for keeping the sisters apart. She has seen enough of what her sister has done. Some I've hidden from her, but now I think I should tell her everything.


I wish you the best of luck dealing with this. If you have any questions about my experience or want to vent about yours, just write it. I'm not hiding anymore. I feel bad for you. No parents should have to go through this.

Dear momminus 1 and Monore,

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. My heart goes out to you because I have two children and two grandchilden. Having to deal with this for 15 years has been a a nightmare. All we wanted to do was love her when she and my son married. But, she wanted no part of it.

Planetchildren

Thanks momminus1, please do change your daughters text message #, it is vital, she is young and even when you explain things to her which is a good idea, then letting your daughter contact her will be problems, they may even develop some sort of pact. Psychopaths isolate as part of their method of operation, changing your daughters # and putting a block on your other daughters #, I assume you can do this with the new phones. How about having the talk with your daughter and then go buy her the newest and greatest phone gadget with the condition that you will have her sister blocked from contacting her? Go shopping with her and let her pick out one every young person would love to have. Keep the communication open with your daughter and don't think that a block on her number is the magic trick, your daughter may find out the new # and you need your daughters trust to tell you and will have to change it again. If it continues I would consider finding out about harassment via text. A good lawyer could scare her to her senses. I know it sounds drastic but nothing is too drastic to stop her from communicating with your daughter, she is still young and impressionable. Isolation is a key factor in how a Psychopath operates, they thrive on it.

I guess you are now in the new phase of protecting her from any influence from her sister. Her sister will have nothing nice to say about you and will be the victim in her own mind and try to influence your daughter in her sick game and will cause great conflict in your younger daughter if she is allowed to contact her. If your daughter succeeds in isolating your daughter you won't know when the texting is happening and what it is all about. A well socialized Psychopath knows how to twist things and would like nothing better than to isolate your daughter from you.

Di

This thread is really making me think. I know my dad left home when he was 15 or 16 years old, and lived 'on the road'. He told me so.

I'm now thinking he was maybe made to leave, as by that stage he had already assaulted his own sister and she had his child. Things must have been pretty intolerable for the rest of them.

Thanks for sharing Starry, makes sense they would have wanted him out of the house.

Just as an FYI, the software has the capability if you want to read other members posts just click on their name and their list of posts will appear.

Di

I did read through some of the older posts, thanks for pointing that out, Dianne. They have been helpful and enlightening. Thank you all for contributing here.

My psych daughter (17, HS senior) told my wife this AM that she was either thinking about or planning to go to a nearby community college for two years before going away to college. I had briefed my wife, since my daughter had originally mentioned this possibility to me, so my wife was prepared with the same message I delivered, fortunately. We both work and drive kids - so we're not always in perfect sync until we have time to catch each other up! The topic came up with her because college night is coming up at her HS, and my wife had offered to take her. I know that my daughter has given this A LOT of thought, despite mentioning it almost in passing to us. She has a plan.

So, our moving-out conversation with her appears to be converging on us earlier than I'd expected. It would be tonight, but my wife is out of town and I'm at a parent/teacher thing. I've decided to discuss this only with my wife present, as my daughter will try to turn us against each other, and state one of us made a commitment, etc. Our marriage, by the way, has not been eroded by this/her, but stress levels very high.

We will, of course, tell our daughter why she cannot live here beyond next August. In fact, I plan to tell her she is always subject to removal from the house (in reality, this earlier removal would be hard for us for a number of reasons, even as it is hard to have her in the home). This will be an obscenity-laden scream fest, with accusations and denials. Possibly ending with the tears and artificial remorse we've seen before - if she actually believes she is trapped in the situation. I'm not sure why staying is more attractive to her, yet... She could probably get accepted into a good school, and there are plenty of potential victims everywhere. She's not afraid of much, so I don't yet get that.

I would like to tell her we believe that she is a psychopath, and hold her behaviors against the definition. After all, it's an identical match. But I read here (could not find it just now) that the approach can be counter-productive, or ineffective. Any thoughts?

I know that most/all of you contributors believe we should remove her from the family now/soon in the interests of my younger kids (thank you for your candid thoughts). We may end up there if we cross a sustained line of intolerability (we've been there), or in the event of potential physical injury.

On another tangent...my daughter wrote in her journal/diary (I copied it) that "sometimes she wants to hurt" my wife. For me "he's just so stupid". I also read about her stealing and planned manipulation of summer job co-workers, boys, etc. It was quite a "window"... It would be great for her to spend a couple nights in jail, she's 18 soon...

Monroe, I honestly don't think it would make any difference to her if she were in jail or not.

I spent a lot of time seriously considering if I should prosecute my dad and see if I could get him put away for what he did to me (actually, it wouldn't be about the end result, as considering the state of the legal system he would probably be found not guilty. It would be more about me having the chance to speak and for others to hear my voice and my story, without the fear of being quite literally gagged or be in fear for my life).

But I realised that he doesn't think like me (or any 'normal' person). Any 'normal' person would see being sent to prison as a punishment, and it would pain them to be separated from their loved ones and their everyday life.

For my dad it would just be access to a whole load of new people to manipulate. He wouldn't miss his loved ones, because he doesn't have any 'loved ones'. He wouldn't miss his everyday life, as all throughout his life he's just dropped things and disappeared once things have gotten a bit tricky for him. He wouldn't view it as a punishment, as he believes he's above the law. He wouldn't see it as a black mark against his character as he doesn't care, he plays by different rules.

Now, please believe me when I say this wasn't an easy decision to make. And I'm still wracked with guilt, because for as long as he's on the outside world, he's hurting people. I know what he's doing. And I dread to think if having the weight of someone's life on my conscience (total starvation is one of his favourite tactics).

But my counsellor tells me I've not to take responsibility for his actions. If he chooses to go on hurting people, that's his decision. I'm not responsible for his decisions and his actions. My counsellor tells me I have to think of myself, of my own wellbeing, and that that comes before anything else.

Hope some of that makes sense. Sorry for the situation you find yourself in. I understand how stressful it must be.

Hi Monroe, most of them are too slick to end up in jail and your daughter is what I would classify as a highly socialized Psychopath.

I would be very concerned over what she wrote about your wife. I am however very happy that you and your wife are working as a team.

Psychopaths are parasites and your family home is a convenient plan from what I can guess. She will no doubt move on and find others to support her. I doubt her goals for college include education because Psychopaths know it all anyways. I suspect it is just to have a free ride by living at home until she can hatch a plan to latch onto someone else.

Be prepared she may just say she disowns you for being lousy parents and why stay. That would give you a perfect out and not have to spend another destructive year with her in your presence. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. Like momminus1 said, her daughter made the decision she wasn't her mother. I would recommend having a recorder hidden in the room so you and your wife can listen to the "conversation" later with clear heads when she has a anger driven fit. Psychopaths don't like being told what the rules are and it would be good to have something to listen to together and base your decision on what she says and how she reacts with words etc.

What will you do if she breaks loose and says you aren't her parents, are you ready to say, okay, how about if we get you an apartment that will be paid for a couple of months that she signs up for. Do not put anything in your name, even her car, if you want her to leave with a car make sure it is in her name before letting her have it.

She is cooking something up, they all do. If you think her plan is to stay at home just to be a parasite, then comes the next decision, if she disowns you or gets really wicked be prepared for your next move. Think of it as a chess game, you can be sure she is going to go on the attack when you tell her she is going to move out, she may just want it on her terms and be glad to be rid of you.

My best guess it will be an ugly scene so I would make sure your other children are out of the house spending the night someplace else for your talk with her.

Di

Diane, I got goosebumps reading your last response. That was my daughter exactly, the disowning, the college(for a month, then into her 25 y/o boyfriend's parents' house), the anger at me in particular-nasty things said and written), and saying that she didn't like our rules and couldn't live here. Exactly alike!

The block is now on my daughter's phone, but before I got it done, I received text messages from my oldest daughter telling me nasty things. She said that she talked to my aunt and that my aunt agrees with her. I find this hard to believe, but my aunt is a busy body, so I'm guessing the 2 of them at least talked. My aunt is 85 and I'm afraid of what I'll say to her, so I won't call her and ask until I can control my emotions. If she sided with my daughter at all, I am deeply hurt, but I know my daughter is convincing, she fooled me. Other texts said how she doesn't love the mom I've become, and that I'll regret how I'm treating her someday. She still has no apology and said that she really didn't do anything that bad. For some reason, I am the focus of her attacks. I was the person closest to her, or so I thought. Maybe they attack the ones they're closest with.

I would like to know if it's a good or bad idea to let her know that I think she's a psychopath. I won't contact her, but this is something that I've been wondering.

It's horrible to say, and I feel guilty and ashamed, but I hope i don't hear from my daughter in a long time. There is such peace when I haven't heard from her. Receiving those texts was horrible, and it reminded me of how it was to live with her.