The grin I am talking about is the grin he uses during the initial seduction. I found the post it was in, Cheri wrote on 8/4/02 in P. Charaxterstics: 1. superficial Charm, "And >>>>>then there is the "slow gaze" thing where he would look at the woman suggestsively and that stupid fake grin". Cheri describes how her P. acted in the office. She describes my P. exactly. That slow gaze and fake grin are so discusting now, almost makes me sick to think about it<<<<<

Okay, is this the one you are talking about? The one where they look at you, and undress you with their eyes. Am I getting close? LOL

Betrayed.

Well, I am going to post this again. I think the last response got lost in cyberspace.

>>Okay, is this the one you are talking about? The one where they look at you, and undress you with their eyes. Am I getting close? LOL<<

Thats the gaze/grin I'm talking about. Last year when I saw the P. do this to someone else. It seemed like he was trying to look deep into their soul to get a deep emotional/personal connection. This can make some people uncomfortable and squirmy. RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone.

betterway

Yaaaay!!!!!!! I finally got it. Now that look, is such a sickening sexual violation of a woman. After knowing the P for a year, he suddenly gave me that look. He had been totally asexual around me till then. The sexual energy behind , was astounding. If a guy ever gave me that look again, I'd punch him. I see gay men, when they are cruising each other, give that look. I get nauseous at the sight of it.

>>>RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone<<<<

That is so creepy. Like he is bragging about it. You know the owner of the store, where my stuff is now, has a son about 15 with ADD/HD. He told me he likes to watch the confusion on people's faces, when he plays mind games on them. A budding P?? They really do know what they are doing. I can't imagine what its like to be a P and to interact with people and have them have shocked, confused, or jolted expressions on their faces. And then they get off on it.


Betrayed.

Betterway,

I can imagine what you have been through, similar stories with me. And I too, feel fortunate to know better. I felt too I was different then the other one.But no, he does it to everybody. Charms, promises to hook you up and bla, bla, bla... But everytime, I feeling low, I tell myself again and again, I deserve better treatment. But I am glad my say save you for one day. All the posts here have saved me.

As soon as they have "earned your trust", you tend not to question someones trustworthiness.

Betrayed,
Imagine the P I was dealing with was smart , he told me I was one of the few that he trusted. Lie, Mirroring,Creating emotion link, all in one. Imagine. But yes, you are right once one believe one drop down our radar capacities. I am sure now we will remember.

You can't win in their games, they have been playing them their whole lives. The ONLY way to win, is don't play.

Exactly what we have to understand. we win by running away.

>>>RED FLAG- he once told me that he likes to see people squirm, so he likes to communicate in person, not over the phone<<<<

I always read that Ps prefer to communicate with emails, notes or phones, so they can avoid people seeing in their eyes. P use to tell me always to email him,or over the phone conservation. I had the impression that was much easier for that P to escape. A lot of time he would say that he get the email or didn't get the message because the phone, the computer are broken. Or whatever possible excuses one could possibly imagine.

>>>>>>I always read that Ps prefer to communicate with emails, notes or phones, so they can avoid people seeing in their eyes<<<<<

With the P and other abusive types I have encountered, this was not the case. Although the P did occasionally leave notes for me. What the P did was pretend, that he had said something totally different, that I had heard him wrong, or even denied saying what he had said. He would sometimes refuse to answer questions, change the subject, etc., etc. Or that I hadn't heard, seen , felt, smelled, or saw what I did. Or that I had seen, heard, felt, smelled something that I didn't.

To one of his friends who had seen him driving around with someone and casually asked who it was, the P told him there was no one, that was my dog. The friend, laughed, then insisted he had seen him with a guy, definitely not his dog, in the car and the P adamantly denied it.

None of his friends knew each other, or even knew that the P had other friends, and were quite shocked when I mentioned the others to them. His whole life was broken into separate, secret, compartments. No one was seeing the whole picture. I probably got to see more of it than any of them, when we were in the store together. And I never realized until after how many more secret lives there were.

Betrayed.

>>>Lie, Mirroring,Creating emotion link, all in one. Imagine.<<<<

Hi Hopefull. I think that is why it is so hard to tell our stories completely. Or for someone who has never experienced a psychopath, to understand our experience. To try and convey all the different mind games going on simultaniously (spell check), is impossible.

Betrayed.

Betrayed,
Compartmentalizing. That's what my P did too. All the things you describe as their ways to block our access to reality, mine also did.
The reason I was so damaged by the relationship, is that, unlike his "friends" who stay on the outside edges of P's life, and can't see each other, a wife, girlfriend, committed lover, gets closer to the center of the P's life. I saw more of the pieces, and how they didn't all fit together, than anyone else he knew. A lawyer told me, you have the missing link, you can put all the pieces together, you are dangerous to him, and that's why he threatens you.
To be closer to the center of their lives, never really allowed into their hearts, but closer to the center, was a very damaging and harmful place to be.
To live in close emotional and physical proximity to a person who lives to dedceive, who can only feel safe when he is in control, and who deceives and threatens in order to control. All that was highly damaging to me. Emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.
Thanks to recommendations here, I am reading the book on trauma bonding and it helps me to cope, but it's hard work and takes a commitment of time to work through.
The obsession is finally becoming managable too. All by the grace of God, alot of hard work, and not giving up. And I agree with others that coming to this place and learning was more effective than ANY therapist. I first found an online forum about a year ago. It may have this one, or another. But it has been about a year, plus or minus a few days. And finding a place where I recognized the same problem I was having, and not feel so damn alone in this was so much help. Yet it's been a year,and I know my recovery is far from over. Life is finally feeling good again, bey is still quite away to go.
Finding an online group where I could learn the truth, see and recognize my own crazy situation mirrored in others’ posts, watch and learn ways to survive and cope, was a big turning point. God Bless you all, and Happy Holidays.
-Leti