Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#11782 - 09/16/11 08:25 AM Could do with some help.
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
My gran is pretty ill at the moment. I don't know how much longer she'll be here.

Top
#11783 - 09/16/11 08:31 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
I am so sorry to hear that! We are all with you!

Top
#11785 - 09/16/11 08:43 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thank you. I have an emergency appointment with my doctor. I feel pretty overwhelmed at the moment.

Top
#11794 - 09/16/11 11:48 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
My dear Starry, you are in my prayers, loving and losing someone who cared so much for you must be crushing. We are here for you. I always hate it when people try to brush it off that they will be in a better place, I do believe they are but it minimizes the pain you must be feeling now.

Please keep in touch and allow us to support you.

Di

A wise friend told me when my mother passed away that the toughest time is the first year when you miss all the things like birthdays and when the first bd came when my mom was gone, it was the worst. I still grieve her and try to think of how blessed I was that she was in my life for the first time only a couple of years before she passed. I now feel her gentle guiding hand. She told me she loved me for the first time when I was in my 50's. I feel robbed at times and am crying for your pain.

Top
#11795 - 09/16/11 01:19 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
Monroe Offline
member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 40
I'm sorry, Starry. I'm glad that you are with her now.
_________________________
Monroe

Top
#11796 - 09/16/11 02:14 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: Monroe]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
The doctor's appointment was for me frown

She was a tough doctor. We talked briefly about the background which makes things difficult for me to deal with life stuff (PTSD). I could tell pretty quickly from the sorts of questions she was asking me that she had never come across a psychopath before.

Anyway, she told me that I seemed very vulnerable and that I needed to develop strategies for dealing with stressful situations.

I told her the strategy I had used in the past and which I know works (a very low calorie diet, less than 500 calories a day at some points). She told me it wasn't a very positive one. I have been referred to somewhere to learn positive coping methods for stress.


For anyone wondering about the effects of having a psychopath in your family, well, this is it in a nutshell. They strip away your ability to cope with life and leave you with none. A bit like like stripping your skin off, so that even the tiniest breath of air leaves you screaming in pain.

Top
#11797 - 09/16/11 02:49 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Starry... your words almost made me cry! They are perfect!
I am so sorry you are left with all this alone... And it sucks that your doctor doesn't know about psychopaths... maybe look for another one who does? What you described is exactly what I had been hearing for the longest time. Then I took action myself, learned about it all myself...

It is NOT you who is responsible for this emotions and you mustn't be alone now. I don't believe one can survive a relationship with a Psychopath. alone. Support is everything. Im sick of people who don't care, or tell you to forget or tell you "others have bigger problems". And "you should learn to cope (all by yourself)".
Of course, we have to cope, and we may have to cope for the rest of our lives, but, hell, THEY, the Psychopaths are the ones who made us miserable, and I don't care if they do it on purpose or they do it unaware of the pain and damage they cause. They are the ones responsible.
(just as much as a driver who accidentally hits someone - he is still responsible, even if he didn't mean it).

Top
#11799 - 09/16/11 03:02 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thank you everyone, for reading my thread, and reaching out. I really appreciate that.

I don't blame the doctor. She's a pretty big improvement on the doctor I was seeing before. And she did say that she wasn't really equipped to help, considering what I'd been though (I missed out the psychopath bit and angled it more at the assaults. Most people can get that part).

Anyway, I'm willing to explore the contacts she gave me. I have found some of this stuff a bit overwhelming in the past (a self defence course for women...I couldn't deal with hitting the punch bag), but I'll try.

Top
#11800 - 09/16/11 03:04 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
I would say the best therapist is "Without Conscience" by Robert Hare. This book made it possible for me to cope.

Top
#11802 - 09/16/11 03:05 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
I've heard os much about this book. Does it give you coping strategies for afterwards as well?

Top
#11829 - 09/19/11 10:22 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
How are you doing Starry?

My thoughts are with you.

Imo the book doesn't get into coping strategies, victims are the unheard of part of the equation as in life.

Di

Top
#11835 - 09/19/11 02:51 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
It doesn't give you coping strategies, but for me the best coping strategy is to REMEMBER. I sometimes look at the quotations at the beginning of each chapter just to remind myself. Or read a part.
For me coping is comprehending that this cute, vulnerable, beautiful "people" were really monsters in disguise.

It just reminded me of Memento - the movie. It kinda feels like it. You'd need a hundred tattoos all over you to remind you of the truth.

Top
#11839 - 09/19/11 04:25 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
I had a difficult day today. I went to the funeral of someone who has been a great mentor to me.

It was awful, my husband is away working at the moment, so couldn't go with me. I went on my own. My legs almost buckled underneath me when I got to the church doors. I sat on my own, at the back, despite knowing several of the people there. I didn't speak to anyone, and hardly anyone noticed I was there.

I couldn't sing and could barely hold the order of service my hands were shaking so much.

I was so out of it, I couldn't go to the wake afterwards. So I went to a bar and had a couple of shots.

This is the sort of thing I need help with. I just can't deal with overwhelming emotion. Well, I deal with it by cutting myself off and deliberately dissociating. Being able to alter my mind state in this way stops me feeling overwhelmed and helps me feel in control. But apparently the methods I use to zone myself out aren't very positive, and the whole zoning out isn't a positive thing either (according to the doctor I saw a couple of days ago).

I called the number the doctor recommended, and am on the waiting list for help. They're going to help teach me 'positive coping methods for stress'.

I think I need to be working on this constantly, considering where I'm starting from. It's not enough to work on it for a bit and then let it slide.

I'm so drained by this whole rollercoaster.

Top
#11840 - 09/19/11 04:44 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
Monroe Offline
member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 40
Well, Starry, for whatever it is worth...just because your friends and supporters here on this forum communicate virtually, it does not mean that we're not real people who really care about you. Because we are, and do.
_________________________
Monroe

Top
#11844 - 09/20/11 01:14 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: Monroe]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thank you Monroe. It's such a relief to be here and be able to talk to you guys, because you get it.

NewBird, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your post. It was late when I wrote mine and I was vey tired.

Unfortunately the problem for me is that I remember too much, all the time, and can't seem to move the information to somewhere a little bit further back in my mind so that I can get on with the rest of my life. I have hypervigilance as a result of PTSD.

The doctor suggested that the hypersensitivity to other people (who they are, their characters, motivations and personal characteristics, which is always writ super large, billboard size for me) is something that allowed me to survive my dad, but isn't useful to me any more, at this point in my life.

To be honest, I'd be a bit scared of letting this one go, as it's what keeps me safe as far as I'm concerned. But I can see how it limits and narrows my life (I'm on constant alert when I'm with other people, observing, evaluating, scanning for the tiniest hint of threat). And I can understand how draining it is on me (if I go out an evening with my husband, and we meet some friends of his, it will take me a couple of days to process the information about them and go through the rollercoaster of emotions that always seems to accompany this sort of thing).

I never thought this was an aspect of hypervigilance (and therefore of PTSD), but I can see that it is now. And I can see why I need to zone myself out so much of the time as well.

Top
#11848 - 09/20/11 09:18 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
daddysproblem Offline
member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 99
starry,

I often have the same problem. That's why I wrote the post about emotional breakdowns.

I'm somewhat new to the realization about my dad and my family. I am the only family member who understands the situation and has been able to detach (for the most part). And I think it is my (yours too) hyper-sensitivity that enabled my survival. I became so in-tuned to my surroundings so that I could 'navigate' around them. And now I am understanding the side effects of this. My world is colored by my past.

I have not done this yet, but I think that maybe meditation can help - or something similar. There is something called EMDR that really makes sense to me. Our poor brains have been trained to be this way. And everything I read tells me that they can also be retrained. Diane has mentioned this woman (can't recall) who also has a technique.

Check out documentaryheaven.com and the documentary 'stress, portrait of a killer'. It doesn't really give coping skills, but it is a great explanation for what has happened to us. It helped me.

It's horrible to be so sad sometimes that you feel like your going to crumble.. I know. I try to follow what my 'healthy' friends do. They take walks or for me sometimes I'll watch easy tv. You know, if you're in a situation (like the funeral) leave, if you have to. No harm no foul. You need to protect yourself. I know that that can possibly be a new concept (it is for me) but it is the answer. When it gets bad, make it about you. Press the easy button if you can.. You don't have to stay in a situation that squeezes the life out of you.

It seems when I am able to do this.. and politely excuse myself. Time and focus on the present helps me - to see that it's over.. and I have MY OWN LIFE now...

Top
#12497 - 12/29/11 04:16 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: daddysproblem]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Tomorrow the nightmares continues...
I feel so bad I cannot yet still tell you my story. Once it's all over (if ever) I will, I promise.

I swear I can feel a cold blade running through my heart whenever this nightmare comes back. I finally get what everyone means by "just letting go". But I can't. At least not yet.
I am blessed to have the support, which brings out the last of the force I still have in me.

I cannot express but you guys mean the world at times like this. Not because you understand, or not judge or support, but because you tell the TRUTH.

Keep your hands crossed for me tomorrow. Wherever you are, whoever you are.

Thank you.


Edited by NewBird (12/29/11 04:16 PM)

Top
#12498 - 12/29/11 05:09 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
All crossed for you.

When the time is right for you, it will happen. We will be there for you. Until then, we are here for you.

Top
#12507 - 01/04/12 04:20 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
So I've seen my Psychopath again.
It is still so hard. I am glad I can see him now for what he truly is. I am no longer charmed by him. And oh my god! Does he look awful! I cannot believe I ever fell for him in the first place.
And the eyes, there really is nothing there. I'd always notice them, but back the I didn't know. I couldn't understand:/

I realized this sad thing that if you ever get in a fight with a Psychopath, you already lost. If you play by your rules, he will smash you. And to act like he does - Ive tried to be cold blooded but it just wont work. I cannot do this. I am unable to harm somebody...
I want so much to believe that this is right and it makes sense... But the world seems to have chosen to protect them, and not us... It is so sad.

And of course I've felt really sad ever since I saw him, had to listen to his lies, his accusations again and again... I try not to talk to him but it only makes him go harder on me... And I'm alone in this.

I haven't even cried this time. But I can feel all the sadness in my heart and how it;s getting me down. I cannot cry though. It's weird. Maybe its yet another phase, where I can finally slowly let go of all of this.
Weird thing is, I don't even know what Im sad about... If I knew I could deal with it.

I'm busy with stuff so I haven't even had a chance to slow down and think about, which is good and bad. Bad, because maybe this would help. All I can feel now is indifference towards him but a really strong sadness inside.

Maybe this post will help me. I hope so. I cannot waste more time on this, really.

Top
#12508 - 01/05/12 04:55 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Originally Posted By: NewBird
So I've seen my Psychopath again.
It is still so hard. I am glad I can see him now for what he truly is. I am no longer charmed by him. And oh my god! Does he look awful! I cannot believe I ever fell for him in the first place.
And the eyes, there really is nothing there. I'd always notice them, but back the I didn't know. I couldn't understand:/


This is such a significant moment for you! The spell is broken. And it's broken for ever now. You're free.


Originally Posted By: NewBird

I realized this sad thing that if you ever get in a fight with a Psychopath, you already lost. If you play by your rules, he will smash you. And to act like he does - Ive tried to be cold blooded but it just wont work. I cannot do this. I am unable to harm somebody...
I want so much to believe that this is right and it makes sense... But the world seems to have chosen to protect them, and not us... It is so sad.


You don't have to be cold blooded, you don't have to harm anyone, not even them. The most important thing is to be true to yourself. I know that it gets lost with people like them, so it's a case of finding who you are again, tapping into those things that made you you before you met them, and also of finding new qualities and of nurturing the qualities you would like to have.

What we have which is much stronger than them, is courage, hope, compassion, the desire to communicate and to make the world a better place. And these are infinitely stronger than what they peddle.

Originally Posted By: NewBird

And of course I've felt really sad ever since I saw him, had to listen to his lies, his accusations again and again... I try not to talk to him but it only makes him go harder on me... And I'm alone in this.


Yes, because they'll keep trying, again and again and again, raising the stakes every time, until they get some kind of reaction from you. That's the game they play. They'll use anything and anyone to get that reaction from you.

When my dad felt I was slipping away from him he went crazy on me (although he wasn't being crazy, he knew what he was doing). He tried everything he knew to get a reaction from me, but it was too late by then. And after I gave him none at all, he dropped me quicker than you could possibly imagine. It was like from one day to the next.

But you're not alone. We're all here for you.

Originally Posted By: NewBird

I haven't even cried this time. But I can feel all the sadness in my heart and how it;s getting me down. I cannot cry though. It's weird. Maybe its yet another phase, where I can finally slowly let go of all of this.
Weird thing is, I don't even know what Im sad about... If I knew I could deal with it.

I'm busy with stuff so I haven't even had a chance to slow down and think about, which is good and bad. Bad, because maybe this would help. All I can feel now is indifference towards him but a really strong sadness inside.

Maybe this post will help me. I hope so. I cannot waste more time on this, really.


I think you've moved into another phase of healing, I really do. You are indifferent to him, so the focus is back on you now (which is something that they are all about manipulating, the focus from you onto them). But you've gained control again, and the focus is back on you. You have given yourself the space and time to get in touch with another aspect of your feelings, which is grief. I guess what you are grieving for is the loss of many things: the loss of who you were, your beliefs and your expectations of the world.

With my grief also came the most tremendous feeling of compassion. Compassion for myself, for having struggled though and come out the other side, but compassion for other people too, even when they are being negative and destructive to me. Not to say that I tolerate that, because I don't now. If you're going to be negative and hurtful I'm keeping you on the very periphery of my life so what you say and do can't affect me. But that doesn't mean to say I don't feel compassion for what has brought you to this point of negativity.

I think beyond grief and compassion lies a tremendous joy and happiness.

So please keep going. I know how much of a difficult journey this is, but the rewards are incredible and very much worth it.

Top
#12509 - 01/06/12 12:49 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
blueheron Offline
member

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 84
Starry,

I know your words were meant for NewBird. How wonderful and amazing they are! What you had to say was very healing to me, too. So thanks for taking the time.

My very best to you too, NewBird. You are strong.

(Just because I've gotten quiet here does not mean the s**t has stopped from next door ...)

blue heron

Top
#12510 - 01/06/12 10:39 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: blueheron]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thank you blue heron. Isn't it amazing how different our stories all are, and how far apart we are geographically, but how we are all on the same journey, and we can gain so much strength and courage from each other's stories and each other's breakthroughs? That gives me so much hope and brings me great joy too.

I've gained so much understanding and insight since being on this forum. I don't feel quite so isolated any more.

Top
#12511 - 01/07/12 03:27 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
starry, take you so much for those words.

I've been wondering what it is, that makes me so sad...

My way of handling problems and fears is to face them. This may be weird for some, but it's just how I am. When I feel fear, I go straight forward and face it. It's instinctual. I hate when fear overcomes me so I'd rather hit before it hits.

So when he did what he dud to me, I didn't totally hide from the world. I was scared like hell but I'd still reach out to people. I wanted to believe that not everyone was like him (he'd made me doubt strongly what is wrong and what is right). I was looking for a proof that most people are good, think like me... Unfortunately, at that time, as he'd made me loose all my true friends, I was left with some people around me, who turned out to be just like him... (I don't know if they're also Psychopaths, but it doesn't matter and I don't even want to wonder) So I was hit badly, and I lost all the hope for this world. I was scared to even talk to people. I was all alone and felt that I was gonna go crazy.
Thankfully, those real friends turned out to be those real friends, and helped when I lost all the hope. I really don't know where I'd be without them.


I was healed, but it breaks my heart to see the world so naively believing Psychopaths. I hate it how people are scared of the truth. I can understand, because I've been there, but it's one thing to be in a relationship where you're blinded and deaf with Psychopaths lies, and other to look at it from the outside, with a clear perspective. People's indifference is really devastating. Everyone has been telling me - "I saw sth was wrong with him but I didn't tell you coz....". Actually my very good friend told me "I didn't tell you, because you wouldn't listen to me back then", which is very true, but also, had ALL of the people told me, I may have started wondering. I actually regret that I didn't go out to people and tell them what was going on and ask for an opinion, coz I may have been saved before it was too late.

I don't know what to do about Psychopaths. They don't fit in the society, but what do you do? Ignore them, not let them get to you - sure. But they will go hurt someone else. Not care about that? Your children will be next...

Being happy and loving and trusting collides strongly with this constant being on the watch...
And I still get these doubts, if he was really a Psychopath... Even after all that happened, and all I've seen.

I love the world but I liked it better when it was clean of Psychopaths. When I believed all people were good deep inside (now Id say - had the same feelings). I guess that's it, that's what hurts me now so much. This part of innocent me, had to die. The belief that being good and honest pays off. It doesn't. I think my will here is over. I have to let it go, and it hurts like hell.

Top
#12514 - 01/08/12 05:37 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Originally Posted By: NewBird
starry, take you so much for those words.

I've been wondering what it is, that makes me so sad...

My way of handling problems and fears is to face them. This may be weird for some, but it's just how I am. When I feel fear, I go straight forward and face it. It's instinctual. I hate when fear overcomes me so I'd rather hit before it hits.



I've discovered I'm the same. I am proud to say I've looked everything he did to me square in the face now. While I haven't managed to say it all out loud to another person, I've said the words in my head. And I feel I own it all now. There's nothing that he did that scares me any more.


Originally Posted By: NewBird

I don't know what to do about Psychopaths. They don't fit in the society, but what do you do? Ignore them, not let them get to you - sure. But they will go hurt someone else. Not care about that? Your children will be next...


This question caused me a lot of suffering. It tormented me for years.

My counsellor told me 2 things:

* his actions are not my responsibility.

* you can only help other people from a position of strength, otherwise it harms you.

Now I realize that both of those things are extremely wise. For years I felt so responsible for everyone he was hurting currently and for everyone else he was going to hurt in the future. I felt I had to stop him. And I felt he had to be punished for everything he had done to other people in the past and that I had to be the catalyst for that.

At some point it twigged that in thinking/feeling all of this, I was still caught up in his game, in the game all psychopath's play. Like many other situations previous, I was accepting responsibility for actions that were his. Actually, the responsibility was, and still is, his not mine. It's all his.

This was a really difficult thing to come to terms with, as it almost felt counter to everything I believed in. But once all this had dawned on me, I felt there was a space around me that allowed me to feel calm and at peace, and not overwhelmed with the panic of what he might be doing (and we all know what people like this are capable of!). And that was a very healing space.

As to helping other people, yes, it has to be from a position of strength. I almost destroyed myself trying to help other people. Very luckily, I came across a couple of people who understood what was happening and helped me by believing me and giving me the time and space to tell my story, half baked as it was at that point.

I've come to understand that in helping people from a position of strength makes you stronger too, which can only be a good thing.


Originally Posted By: NewBird


Being happy and loving and trusting collides strongly with this constant being on the watch...
And I still get these doubts, if he was really a Psychopath... Even after all that happened, and all I've seen.

I love the world but I liked it better when it was clean of Psychopaths. When I believed all people were good deep inside (now Id say - had the same feelings). I guess that's it, that's what hurts me now so much. This part of innocent me, had to die. The belief that being good and honest pays off. It doesn't. I think my will here is over. I have to let it go, and it hurts like hell.




So where is it you want to get to?

For me, it was a very conscious decision that I wanted to make some friends. Not necessarily ones who had to know everything about me, but who were on the same wavelength. And incredibly, that's come to pass over the past couple of years. Tentatively still, for sure, but yes, I can call them friends.

For me it was also to get in touch with the joy and the innocence and the goodness again. I always knew I was different from him in this way, I always described him as the absolute opposite of me. And I can honestly say that that has happened too. It's not the same innocence as before, it's very different. But it's there.

And I think you can reach those things again too, reconnect with them again. They're just the other side of the grief.

Hope some of that makes sense.



Edited by starry (01/08/12 05:39 PM)

Top
#12520 - 01/10/12 03:46 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
skybluepaint Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 100
Originally Posted By: NewBird
I love the world but I liked it better when it was clean of Psychopaths. When I believed all people were good deep inside (now Id say - had the same feelings). I guess that's it, that's what hurts me now so much. This part of innocent me, had to die. The belief that being good and honest pays off. It doesn't. I think my will here is over. I have to let it go, and it hurts like hell.



I hear you. It does hurt like hell to let go of that dream, not only of the dream of the person you thought the psychopath was or could've been, but also that loss of your own innocence. From the outside, one might have thought my psychopath was the innocent one. She seemed so convincingly sweet, sincere and I was the one who would help her, rescue her from someone else until someone else could help rescue her from me. I can understand why he believed her story, because I did, too. We all do, because we are suckers and we don't know any better. I had a friend tell me at the time I met the psychopath that if I got together with her, my friend would stop being my friend; that was how averse her reaction was. Another friend told me later that the psychopath had dead, black eyes. Another said she looked down on other people, as if from above. You probably knew all of the things your friends said or thought. You probably saw them yourself, but you made excuses for them, filled in the blanks with wrongly presumed goodness. That is what we do, assume the best in people. It makes me sad that I am now EXtREMELY leery of people in need of help or who have a sob story. I now assume it is simply an appeal to my empathy. I stay away for fear of being used. Not only that, but I more easily use people as if a part of the psychopath wore off on me. Once the psychopath said she could "teach me" how to see the world through her eyes. What a scary, scary thought. I don't want to look at the world with such filth, slime, and sick hatred in my heart, and neither do you. No matter what she did to me or how bad it still hurts, I cannot and will not look at other people and the world that way, with such sheer negativity and hatred.

But for them, I don't think all that negativity, hatred, sickness of spirit is that intense in the way we perceive those emotions. For them, bad feelings, good feelings, they are all really the same aren't they, because there are no genuine emotions attached to them. As the psychopath told me, "I am not like you." I didn't understand that, and still have a hard time understanding it. It is simply hard for the average human to think about what these psychopathic automatons are like. They really are like that, robots with outstretched arms and a big smile, ready to hug you and win you over. Then, they swivel around and do the same thing again with someone else. So, don't blame yourself up about it. You couldn't have known. We always do the best we can with the knowledge available at the time. Now you have new knowledge and yes, that probably negatively impacts the way you view people the world. But, it isn't within you to really believe that most people are bad, because that simply isn't true.

I think you are well on your way to healing. Dealing with and accepting your thoughts help immensely.

Top
#12529 - 01/15/12 01:44 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: skybluepaint]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Guys, thank you so much.
I've been feeling a little sad this weekend as well, and after reading a little bit of this forum, I'm fine again. It is truly amazing, how much the Psychopath affected my life. I still have doubts, even though the facts are right there... But every time, reading your stories and thoughts and conclusions help like nothing.

I feel like I should tatoo my whole body like in memento so I can remember what he did...

I think the biggest problem (and still for me a thing to fight, and I dont know how) is how the 2 pictures clash. The perfect person we loved, and the horrible, horrible monster. Both in one. How do you perceive this? How do you get around these feelings of love and fear? One person, who lives in both - good and bad memories?

Really, I've felt like my closest person died. And it's terrible. But this person didn't die. They live, and they hurt you, and they hate you, and they want all the worst for you... even though they'll say the opposite...

Top
#12538 - 01/17/12 07:23 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
LarryDarrel'sTaxi Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 7
I've read that one of the things that Psychopaths do is read other people. They become masters at it. Since they don't have emotional feelings to go on. They have nothing else to do but to figure out both your positive and negative buttons.
I also read (I forget whether on line or in the "Psychopath Test" by Ronson) that one of the things they do is figure you out so they can become the perfect mate. They are totally maliable because they have no emotional life that their personality is tied to. So regardless of who they are in reality, they will become the perfect mate for the person they choose as a partner. I often wondered how my step-father could stand my mother.. How my real father could still love her. It's because of the fact, that for all her crazy abusive behaviour, to protect herself and get what she wants, she made herself the perfect woman for them at all other times.
I've never heard my mother say that she loves anyone (not including her kids). She has no stories of boys (or anyone) that she loved so much in school or any other love war stories. However, when she has fealt betrayed by my step-father.. She says, "I thought he loved me". Never, "I loved him so much and he hurts me." She never seems like she is emotionally hurt deep down, but more angry that someone got the best of her.

Top
#12539 - 01/17/12 08:21 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: daddysproblem]
LarryDarrel'sTaxi Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 7
I just wanted to second the suggestion of meditation.
(Although, I've been meaning to get back to it myself.)
There are lots of books on meditation that will get you started. Secular ones too. A large part of the practice of meditation is teaching your mind to not dwell. Anyone trying to sell you 'enlightment' is probably doing just that.. trying to sell you something. Meditation is for normal people with normal problems.. Monks and such are on another path that includes meditation.. but your not a monk.
I'm a buddhist myself but that doesn't matter. Here are some things you don't have to worry about if you want to meditate.

.. You don't have to be buddhist.
.. You don't ever have to be concerned with achieveing "enlightment" or any other higher state.
.. You don't need a guru.
.. You don't need or try to make your mind blank (damn near impossible for a normal person.)
.. You're not trying to "not care" about reality

I started meditating for about a year before I went to any workshop or anything. Lots of good books out there like I said. (I would also be very weary of any meditation teacher. There are good ones, but be super diserning and sceptical.)

Just sit cross legged, pillow for your tush. or sit comfortably in a chair. Set a timer for ten minutes. Try not to move, but if you're a beginer and have to itch, do it and get back to sitting still. focus on your breath. just try thinking in, and out. Thoughts are going to come. Sometimes overwhelming so. Every time you catch yourself thinking. Just say to yourself, oh I'm thinking again. And focus back on your breath. You might do this for a while without being able to keep the thoughts from piling in. That's OK. Don't get mad. Don't try to be perfect. Don't try to be "good at it". No matter how many times you get distracted, just get back to focusing on your breath. Just try to do it for ten minutes a day. I've been practicing on and off for about six years. I still have thoughts racing through my head pretty much the enire time. But I've learned to let them not bother me when I'm sitting. That calm.. starts to spread into your daily life. It's not about escape, but acceptance of what you can't change. You still have to do the things you need to do.

Don't think of it as trying to reach a blank state, or higher conciousness or any of that crap.

Just think of it as the world and your brain are like a small child that you just want to sit still and shut up for ten minutes:)

He is a buddhist but I recomend Dharma Punx by Noah Levine.

Top
#12540 - 01/18/12 04:38 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Originally Posted By: NewBird
Guys, thank you so much.
I've been feeling a little sad this weekend as well, and after reading a little bit of this forum, I'm fine again. It is truly amazing, how much the Psychopath affected my life. I still have doubts, even though the facts are right there... But every time, reading your stories and thoughts and conclusions help like nothing.

I feel like I should tatoo my whole body like in memento so I can remember what he did...

I think the biggest problem (and still for me a thing to fight, and I dont know how) is how the 2 pictures clash. The perfect person we loved, and the horrible, horrible monster. Both in one. How do you perceive this? How do you get around these feelings of love and fear? One person, who lives in both - good and bad memories?

Really, I've felt like my closest person died. And it's terrible. But this person didn't die. They live, and they hurt you, and they hate you, and they want all the worst for you... even though they'll say the opposite...



This was one of the biggest hurdles for me, and perhaps the one that's taken the longest and been the most difficult and painful. I can relate to the reasons why you're finding this so confusing and painful.

I always felt there was a clash, between what I was feeling and what the psychopath was telling me. The feeling bits were just snippets, all disconnected from each other, and didn't hang together as a narrative (which would have been my narrative as opposed to what the psychopath wanted me to believe). Of course, this is the dynamic they want to set up - their truth over your truth.

I knew I wanted to make my narrative. And I wanted it to be whole and complete, and give me the capacity to explain his behaviour and everything really, from my perspective. So I started unpicking everything I remembered.

Very slowly things started to connect with each other. Things that seemed very weird, or just random, or confusing actually had a place in my narrative. I started off by thinking he was just a bit weird, or eccentric (which is what he wanted me to think). To realising that he'd been telling me a few lies, minor ones, nothing major. At this point my counsellor at the time suggested I had been groomed. I found that pretty shocking, surely I couldn't have fallen for that? Then I twigged there had been some pretty major half truths and omissions along the way. Then it dawned on me that a lot of what he had said had been a lie. Then I understood that the lies were a construct, a way of manipulating me. About this time I saw him do 'the process' on someone else and that was a real eye opener. I could see it really clearly and I understood that this was what he had done to me too. Then I realised that nothing he said or did had been true, that my gut feelings were telling me the true picture. So I started trying to remember those.

Some of it was extremely painful to think about, and I'd throw up or have a panic attack when I started trying to unpick it. But I knew I wanted to get to the other side of that, I wanted to be able to stitch it all together.

I got a lot of insight through reading an abuse survivor's forum, a lot of insight through reading on here, and amazingly, a lot through a woman I became friends with around that time who had worked as a therapist in a secure unit (the sort of place where they send psychopaths who have been found guilty of crimes to).

It took about 5 years of really hard work. I had a couple of breakdowns, found I was unable to work, had to cope with the onslaught of PTSD (which was probably exacerbated by the work I was doing on myself). But I managed to make my narrative. And it's now overwhelmingly the truth for me. There are no gaps any more, nothing that jars, and there is nothing which is in my head that frightens me any more.

There is still work to be done on other areas, but that's another question really.

Hope that helps.



Edited by starry (01/18/12 04:40 AM)

Top
#12541 - 01/18/12 04:13 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Starry!

Thank you so much for your answers. I feel like you are my mentor somehow.
It is scary to think theres still so much ahead, but also comforting to think that part of the way is behind me. I caught myself wondering again today, how terrible my life was, jus a year ago... All the pain was back for a second. But then I looked at my life now, and smiled, coz I realized how great it is. I feel so proud of myself. The changes are so big I look at myself as a different person back then. I feel like that was a girl I knew, and this here is me.. now:)

I also realized sth really big today. And it hurts and I cry, but that's OK.
I realized there was no good in all this. Really, there wasn't. I realized, there was nothing like love there. Instead, there was this monster, who was doing terrible things, and hurting me from the beginning, but it was so cruel I couldn't take it. So I contradicted my own self. I can see it more and more clearly now and now I've realized this, and it really hurts. I literally feel raped. I didn't want to acknowledge all the wrong... its a weak and primitive defense mechanism, but there's also not much you can do...

I feel like a hurt child now, really... I feel so weak.
But it's OK. I know I'll be fine.

Top
#12546 - 01/19/12 09:26 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Originally Posted By: NewBird
Starry!

Thank you so much for your answers. I feel like you are my mentor somehow.
It is scary to think theres still so much ahead, but also comforting to think that part of the way is behind me. I caught myself wondering again today, how terrible my life was, jus a year ago... All the pain was back for a second.


I think I know this pain too.

It's a big relief to me that we can all help each other, that we can all listen to each other, and accept and validate what we're all saying about this whole thing. That's made a big difference in my life.


Originally Posted By: NewBird

But then I looked at my life now, and smiled, coz I realized how great it is. I feel so proud of myself. The changes are so big I look at myself as a different person back then. I feel like that was a girl I knew, and this here is me.. now:)


You should be proud. You've shown the most incredible courage, not only in making a break from something so difficult, but in speaking out, and embracing the future and all the possibilities it might bring.


Originally Posted By: NewBird

I also realized sth really big today. And it hurts and I cry, but that's OK.
I realized there was no good in all this. Really, there wasn't. I realized, there was nothing like love there. Instead, there was this monster, who was doing terrible things, and hurting me from the beginning, but it was so cruel I couldn't take it. So I contradicted my own self.


I'm not sure if that's the whole story there. Yes, we have trouble believing that someone could be so deliberately cruel, but they exploit that contradiction to the maximum.

For me, psychopaths are all about keeping people in a state of suspended animation, a kind of half life, so they can get what they want from them. And they do that by severing everything: thinking/feeling, feeling/action, thinking/action. And the having trouble believing that someone could be so cruel is part of all of that. I'm sure we all know the 'rooted to the spot' feeling here too?


Originally Posted By: NewBird

I can see it more and more clearly now and now I've realized this, and it really hurts. I literally feel raped. I didn't want to acknowledge all the wrong... its a weak and primitive defense mechanism, but there's also not much you can do...

I feel like a hurt child now, really... I feel so weak.
But it's OK. I know I'll be fine.


I'm glad you wrote that last sentence. I believe you will be fine too, in spite of everything. You have so much strength and optimism (I know that sometimes it's hard to see that when you're in it all).

Top
#12588 - 01/25/12 02:13 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Starry, thank you for your answers. You are always so helpful with understanding things.

I know I am still at the stage of healing - but the good thing is now I can see that this path leads somewhere, it is all becoming more and more clear that there actually IS a way out.
I still have moments of delusions, but instead of running away I let them come and stay for a while. It helps more than denying.

I still cannot believe how most people (almost everyone actually) tell you that you should "forget" about it all and never think about it at best. It's crazy! This way you loose.
Of course, it's important to move on, but in our cases, the burden is too heavy and you just wont go on no matter how hard you try. We need to find a way to get this burden out of our shoulders first. And that is a hard task, and no one understands...

I don't think I'd be able to go on like this if it wasn't for this forum. I cannot express how much this means.


I try not to let this whole story influence me too much. I try to find the right balance. Between what to do and what not to do. I cannot live by my rules anymore, I need to change them, coz the rules I played by, unfortunately aren't the rules everyone plays by... So Im trying to find whats right and accaptable for me, but it still cases confusion.

Normally I wouldn't ever do anything that could result in hurting others. But now I sometimes have to. I don't feel bad at all about what might happen to my ex-Psychopath if he is sentenced, but I guess that's normal.
He is not the guy I loved, he is just his skin, that's all.

I have trouble finding the right way in life though. Most times I see what people do and how others think it's OK, and I get angry, coz I cannot say it's OK. And I have people telling me that I should do this or that, that I should "enjoy life" and not care if my actions hurt some people, but I just cannot live this way.
I see how this psychopathic behavior is being almost praised in our culture now. I can understand that some people become cold and egoistic, after being hurt like me, but more and more of them seem to act this way and if we continue, we're gonna have a pretty nasty world around us.

It's actually funny, how I see how the world could be, if people just acted normally, and how it is, because they act in the selfish and cruel way sometimes. The thing is it spreads - all it takes is ONE person to be nasty to someone and that someone will surely go and be like "I got hurt so I can hurt others too".
It's like "do to others before they do to you".

I don't know what to do. If I'm just gonna be myself and act right on and on, I will get kicked by those who take advantage of it. If I go act like a b... I won't feel good about it. I have to find the balance and it's really hard...

Top
#12633 - 01/28/12 09:39 AM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: FreeBird]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
I'm sorry if I've skipped over some of your posts.

I wanted to share a huge step forwards with you. For years I've been terrified of living in my own physical self. I can't seem to control how I react to things: panic attacks, IBS, migraine type headaches, the shakes, retching and vomiting.

For the past 4 or so years, I've really wanted to do something that would help me feel better in myself. I can't begin to describe the panic that it's made me feel.

I was ill over December. Nothing serious, just a chest infection which made it difficult to breathe. That was the final straw.

I found a budget gym. Joined about 2 weeks ago. And it's taken me 2 weeks to book my induction session.

I went today. I almost passed out with fear on my way there.

But I went. It went well. I stayed and did a session. Just a short one, and I feel amazing now. Like I'm somehow physically solid and very much 'in' myself.

I'm going back tomorrow.

Top
#12634 - 01/28/12 10:07 PM Re: Could do with some help. [Re: starry]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Starry, you constantly amaze me with your progress. I know there are so many benefits we can get from exercise but hard to do even though in the end it will make us feel better.

Keep us posted on how it is going. I am going through a major change in diet so plan to add exercise as soon as I get up again.

Di

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >