I'm confused with the differences. I know a psychopath can be a manipulator but is a manipulator a psychopath?

I have a friend (known her for 10 years)I come to see her more like older sister where we always argue and disagree and lose our temper over things (sometimes very simple things) But I found myself losing my temper and becoming upset over her not being a good friend alot. Why she isn't a good friend and why she never did at-least quarter of what good friends should be like. All she says is , I don't understand, I hate arguing, I never did that, you didn't have to help me if you didn't want to, Is that why you were always helping me? (this drives me crazy), and so on...

It's like I can't question her at all even when she's being rude and embarrasing me infront of anyone with her sarcasm . Obviously I never assumed she was a psychopath or a manipulator I just thought she's a genuine person with very different morals and personality but after reading some info It got me thinking... and I am hoping she's just a silly selfish one (I know its bad but I rather have her being that then a psychopath)

I kept away from her and told her so many times to do the same but she always comes back with a crazy story and afcourse I feel so sorry for her and she goes on "... you're my sister and you're the only nice hearted person I know". She nurtures my ego but far more I feel sorry for her. I ask myself, who do you think you are? she's begging to befriend you and you just rejecting her, SNAP A of IT...

... I had a sudden death in the family and only little time after that she had a birthday party at some type of place she rented out. I thought it will be nice for a close friend to help especially at a time like that but She wasn't beside me at all. And when I asked her she said she had NO CAR ( I found this to be so lame) (she only lived 20 minutes away)... anyways... theres heaps of things she did that's not normal and then she will deny it. And obviously I have no energy to convince her so I let it be and then she does it again, over and over again...

So many times we argued. I told her to keep away and this time its enough and that this time I mean it but she will show up at the next day like nothing ever happened. And if I stay quite and ignore her she broadcasts it to the whole world that she doesn't understand why I'm being so cold hearted and that she never expected this FROM ME— so again I feel guilty and bad .. I feel like I'm putting down a child so to speak so I return back to the normal state.

I helped her so much where I gave up almost on myself and when I state these stuff to her (so she can understand and back off) she makes it like I'm depressed and I blame her for everything in my life. She told me to stop using her like a stress reliever, .. But I think it's the other way around...

I had some bad things happen to me in the past and because she's always fiddling with my personal things and nearby she's the only one who knew all my problems yet now thinking over all that I see that she was so cold hearted and she actually never really helped out. She always "ran" away when I needed help but she made me feel guilty to help her when she needed any kind of help. She was basically the icing on the cake with other crazy things in my life.

My home was burnt down and after that I was left homeless and she never offered to help out knew I wasn't comfortable with that choice and yet she never invited me stay over at her home. I think that was rude considering the fact that I was the one who helped her when she was homeless (she stayed with me at my home and I supported her with her new home too) Again when I confront her with this she treats it like," ok ok are we going to argue with this topic again? " She makes me feel like I'm nagging too much and giving her the HEADACHE, its truely stupid and funny in the weirdest way.

She says let go of the past but she always does similar things. If I say something to upset her accidentally she always remembers it and always restates it to me.

When I tell her my most upsetting experiences or ask for help she immediately makes it like she's busy and has plenty scheduled up for the day therefore she's too busy to help out again... oh and when I ask her about her schedule in detail she starts telling me that I'm controlling her (she never answers my questions properly) ... ? ohh and if I don't ask her how she is for days she eventually contacts and immediately asks why I haven't contacted her & so on..

Furthermore she hardly agrees with my choice of anything example shoes, jeans, mobile phone, etc.. but in other settings she re states "my" so called interests and "likes" to be "hers" example; she said she hates smartphones and she loves her old phone. Meanwhile I just bought a new smartphone. So she kept nagging on that she hated smartphones and how it's so hard to use them and so not her style so on... Later on she stated saying she wants to buy one because of the ringtones it has and she wants one exactly like my one because of its clear screen and ringtones... I'm so used to this stuff I can give millions of examples like this. The point with this is she either makes me feel bad/stupid/anything not good.... for even having anything if I like it abit but later she purchases it herself.

As I stated before I told her to leave me alone before (feeling sad about it)but I feel like she's emotionally killing me. Whats crazy is after a sad crazy argument she can walk out and head to a party and laugh or joke to other people with what she did to me ( other people told me this ) and if I ask her she lies and says she never even been to any place and so on.. its pathetic.

Yet we did stop talking for some time in the past (almost 1 year I think) and we ended befriending again because she tried to commit suicide with pills. Afcourse I was shocked to this and went to see her straight away and became friends again. But she never tells why she did that. I'm having weird thoughts of that now...

She's not a bad person all the time. She's actually very respectful and giving at times but It got me thinking did she wait anything for return?... because I remember people always offering her alot of things in return e.g free services, painting of home, etc...

She gives alot of compliments, alot. Which started to irritate me after awhile.


She is actually very funny and has a sense of humour and makes almost anyone laugh (together she will laugh too but not so much like others).. I read psychopaths don't really have any emotion but she does laugh and she will say things like , oh poor thing while watching some documentary on something like.. anorexia.. so on.. she says shes worried about her mum back at overseas etc..

I asked her why she's my friend for this long and she answers me like I'm a horrible person as though to say "Do you know what friendship is?".. aughhh! it's really disturbing when I'm trying to figure her out.

She became very close with my family. Each time I tell her to leave me alone she contacts my family and tells them how lonely and sad her life is and "now" that "I'm" not talking to her she is falling apart because "I" was the only one who she trusted.. .. it goes on.. and it works! My mum gives me a call CRYING telling me to give her a call and that I'm a horrible person to be doing that to her ... So I eventually call her telling her to keep away from my family and to stop upsetting my mum but she finds that to be an excuse to talk and patch things up again.... AND yes I do feel bad and come to think I should just be her friend but she does everything over and over again...

She never stands up for me<—- that's another things about her. She always had me at front line to defend her & fight for her with people I don't even know but she always stands back watching the whole thing. So as a result, overtime, I made enemies just for her and shockingly she has became almost bestfriends with them again. Why did I gain enemies ? Why didn't she fight her own war? When I ask her this she says; "was I the one made you hate them or made you fight! It's not my fault! Why do you blame me?... " Not like I cared for the other people but why should I have enemies for her when she obviously doesn't even respect or care... She even went out for a drink with couple of people after I argued with them for HER.... she basically told me they were bad to her and used her for her money and they wont give back her money and so on... So naturally I hated my friend being treated like this and defended them for NOTHING- she pushed me on to do this by saying stuff like," yeah I know you will defend me , I know you will do this.."etc.

Scary part is she never cares or apologizes unless I make a shocking statement of her next to others and then she will say stuff like I know I wasn't a good friend to you and you're right and I'm sorry and you're the only one who cares and has a nice heart and very gullible to believe things all the time. (after reading of psychopaths I don't even know if she was genuinely sorry now ) YEs she constantly tells me I'm gullible but she says its a nice thing because its not that she means to call me stupid or foolish but very childlike in mind—- yes so I'm not supposed to feel stupid to this? lol ok

I sometimes find all this so stupidly funny and crazy I just can't believe our friendship... I'm tired of the games. She acts like she's a pilot or the governor , president, ... she's always right< never wrong< but yet very calm so I'm the crazy one that apparently tries to control her..........

And she makes a good job in giving me names.. she tells others she doesn't like being controlled hence she doesn't directly state I'm controlling her to others (I think this is to cover her ass if I confront her) she says it in a way like others will automatically assume she's talking about me.. I can't even say it's the other way around because I don't even know the people she's got herself surrounded with.

Yes she's very social. EVeryone likes her till some point. After a while she always has problems with them saying things like she trusted them and they called her names and talked about her behind her back. This is when I feel bad for her and stand up for her. It also upsets me to see her looking so disturbed and sad. I tell her , don't worry about them and so on... yet she plans things to get back at them only she involves others to be part of it and then when its done she stands back watching the whole thing ( everyone arguing) and then she becomes friends with them again leaving the "involved" people with a headache and bitter to each-other. She doesn't care for those though... she carries on like it all never happened. If you ask her she will reply , "what do you mean?" or something like that...

So is this friend a psychopath or a good manipulator? can someome tell me this? I can understand if she's a psychopath (sad to say) because I read they just born like that and they can't feel anything like remorse or guilt. But I do see her angry and upset a lot of times .

I hardly see her laugh and smile though. Alot of people stated that to her that she never laughs and she bragged on about this to me acting worried to why people say that to her. She said I just don't find anything funny to laugh about and I do feel like laughing like HA AHAHAHA (she acted this out) but she stated she can't do it all the time but sometimes she will giggle at stuff when I find her weird as though to say I CAN"T BELIEVE YOU... she will giggle like YES BELIEVE IT ... sometimes I even find this stuff funny like the way she does but I hate it too. I don't want this to happen constantly when yes I do care for her like a sister but this is just too much. It's like fulltime work. Everything is constantly about her her her her... Anyways I also saw her cry maybe 2 times about her mum and for herself being depressed at times.


..... I actually called her up and asked her about her emotions (I know I think this was silly of me but I became so worried after reading into this) and if she has any real emotions or if she fakes it when she interacts with others she said, yeah. I asked her more things in detail but she started to laugh and said, are you observing my personality? I'm human!. I thought this was funny in a sad way too... ...

Can psychopaths feel any emotion?

I want to understand what I'm dealing with.... is she just a egocentric person with learnt behaviour traits of manipulation or a psychopath?

I know I wrote alot but When I found out I became so worried with this topic AND FOR HER. It's so scary. I really don't want her to be a psychopath. Can someone tell me what impression you have of this friend? and advice me? please.


So what is she? Please help. thnksss

Hi, welcome to our community, sorry for not replying earlier have been out all day and will respond tomorrow.

Di

Hi Star! Welcome to the forum.

First and foremost - what difference is there, if we tell you that she is 'egocentric' or a 'psychopath'? Does it matter what we call it? You described her behavior - and I bet no one here would want to meet this person or have anything to do with her.

Does she have psychopathic features? Yes. Is she one? You'd have to ask doctor Hare, or other specialist. I don't think we're in the power here to diagnose someone.

But it doesn't really matter. What you described here is clearly a set of psychopathic "flaws" of character.
For you friendship is a deep emotional relationship - a connection. But just as any relationship - it works only to some degree. If your friend - lets say - does something you cannot accept - like betray you, lie to you, or does sth terrible to someone else - he/she wouldn't be the same friend - I would distance myself from such a person - more and more each time he/she does sth I don't accept.

The problem is - we are often to forgiving. Because we want things to be good, we want to believe that people understand. And most often - they just don't.
You have your boundaries - she has hers (or maybe has none, if she's a psychopath) - and she brakes them. This can never work.

Also - as much as for you friendship is a kind of a "deal" - you're there for me, so I'll be there for you - it works naturally, coz anytime someone helps you - you feel obliged to help to. It's our nature.
But for a psychopathic person - a friend is nothing more than someone close - who they can take advantage of. And I don't care if they do it on purpose, or it's just their nature - if they ask you for something (and they usually don't ask straightforward) - and you deny them (no matter what reason) - you are DISLOYAL to them.

They demand your loyalty, no matter what. Of course being loyal to a friend or family, or someone you love is a good thing, but just as everything - blind loyalty is just stupid. Just as blind love.

So, no matter if she is a Psychopath or just has some psychopathic features - she clearly pushes your boundaries and that shakes your personality. Try to find this limits in yourself - and tell those to her - she will probably say something mean again - she would not accept them. A true friend accepts your limits. And they have respect for you.

I would recommend checking the psychopathy list of features - here on forum under Resources, and this great article: http://www.psychopath-research.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/11173/What_is_Gaslighting#Post11173

Hi

Thank you for the reply. I am still searching on this topic so thanks for the info above.

I actually want to know if she is a psychopath for 100% I know it shouldn't matter but it does to me.

I feel there is a big difference. For example one can actually understand the emotion and just don't care and one actually really doesn't understand at all.

Also I want to know if she was pretending to have these emotions... This is important to me because as I said she's actually also very nice and acts & responds with emotions at times...

It's hard to explain I've known her for TEN years and we had plenty of memorable moments together with friends and family. If I keep away I still want to know if she is a psychopath or not.I worry to think she is one.

Did she fake to be genuinely interested in anything. Did she pretend to help (in her way), did she pretend to hold a grudge against someone and cry. Did she pretend to be in depressions? Did she pretend so many other things.. did she have conscience. Did she even "feel" any happy emotion when she had her ways or was it just a satisfaction of putting the other person down.... I know you will be saying ..it doesn't matter...... but it does... ................

I read psychopaths lack remorse and guilt and conscience altogether and therefore the advice is to let them "drown" and to move on because they just don't have conscience to even understand what they are hearing or doing ... and if they do have conscience it will be another story... what if there is another story to this.

& how is it possible to even ask dr hare? I am considering to take her in for specialists but around where I live its a definite that they wont even observe her properly and they will either think she's depressed or a psycho.

anyways your resources here is pretty good. I'm still reading the book , the mask of sanity. With its examples I'm getting abit confused though. I read they have absolutely no conscience however some characters are lying to hide the truth (from there parents). Wouldn't they not care at all if they were psychopaths? I know they are good at lying but I wouldn't think they will care to lie to even to there parents... they obviously wouldn't care how there parents feel...

Meanwhile I kept away from this friend for few days now and she's been asking me what is wrong and why I'm acting strange. I am really confused with all this stuff ...

thanks you all

Your friend appears more Borderline, than ASPD, but only Dr Hare or another mental health professional would know for sure.

I was married to a psyhcopath & there is NO DOUBT in my mind on this.
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He is 37 out of 40 on Hare scale & dangerous.
What I would ask Star is this. WHY are you putting so much energy into this friendship?
It's one thing to be married to someone & work on the marriage but .. this woman, it sounds like you have really nothing binding you together that would keep your friendship cohesive.

Some people do not like being alone, they do not know how. It's really vital to be ok by one's self. I have no idea, why, she does what she does but I can tell you that it doesn't sound like a healthy friendship so why go further with it?

Some people feel so devoted to a person, but really healthy is having groups of friends, then a few close friends possibly within that group or elsewhere but life is about BALANCE.

Psychopaths have 0 balance. They keep things off balance all the time. They often use drugs/alcohol.

I had no idea my now ex husband was a psychopath, he didn't let down his mask until I was living with him & married. Then he would flip everything around on me.
IF I had known all this upfront & what would transpire I would not have gone this route.
He created such destruction, I am beginning to think I will not recover in this lifetime. I can't begin to describe all the damage he has done.

In my opinion it's RIDICULOUS to invest in unhealthy friendships, PERIOD. There are way too many groups, hobbies, ways to be with People that one does not have to bind with another person where it's not healthy.

I do think it's different when married to someone or if it's family. I would say it is good to try to do whatever to salvage if possible.

Friendships are very delicate & take a lot of balance, to not strain each other. Star, the friendship itself for whatever reason just doesn't sound good. There is NO reason to stay connected if it's hurting you & /or her! If you pass each other, are involved in the same church or group/s then just be friendly. People try to force friends with another & it can make both go nuts! lol If you have to let go then work on self/ interests/ gathering more friendships.. but don't force friends because it's just not healthy!

I am big on NOT having any friends that have substance abuse, I want a person as afriend that has similar interests. There's plenty of people out there, I don't have to sell myself short.. noone does.

Marriage, family, that is priority.. friends are wonderful but it's good to be secure, stable, & live a balanced life! Friends will come when living like this.
Don't mean to sounds like know it all.. I am new here, .. my own life is so screwed up from psychopath BUT I had a well rounded life before him & know how to recreate the balance.. will take time.. that's my goal.

TOO, if people allow another in their lives (again I am not speaking of marriage or family) that are not living a balanced life & have their act together in living a healthy life, oftentimes they can create havoc.. set clear boundaries!!! & concentrate on being healthy..