Hi,
I wonder if any of you could give me some advice? I registered here a few months ago and had a thread about 'Psychopath Stepfather'. Talking to people was really helpful. Now I am once again fighting in what has been a 7 year battle with my step-father psychopath over a legal issue, and I really need some help/support/advice.

Briefly it's about something he wants me to sell him (a 'gift' from him, a share in a house) at a very low price, and not only does he want it from me at a bargain, he wants to rip me off and leave me in debt (too long to go into). I have been fighting this with the help of some family members, (including a lawyer who deals with psychopaths, who has been my greatest support) but my brother is firmly on his father (the Psychopaths) side.

The reason I continued fighting was
1) to prove a point - you have bullied me all my life, and you will no longer do so
2) no-one else in my family managed it, I was fighting for them as well, for all of us who he has screwed over and hurt
3) anger I suppose! I have serious anger issues with him and what he has done to my family and continues to do.
4) legally, that share is worth far more than he is trying to buy it for. He is trying to bully me into handing it over, and it's mine.

In the end (and on good advice from legal professionals) I have withdrawn my offer and he, of course, has gone into head-spinning feather-spitting rage mode. Sadly, this affects all of us. My brother and I are having problems now, he is going out with a close friend of mine (I introduced them) and now she is starting to believe the Psychopath and my brother (who parrots everything his father says, and has a capacity for denial that makes your eyes water). ) I am now subjected to a torrent of emails threatening to take me to court (which I ignore) and now angry and manipulative emails from my brother trying to get me to cave in. I have been advised to ignore, ignore, ignore. It seems to be driving him (the Psychopath) mental, but I feel we will never get anywhere. He will never stop, he really wants this share of the house back, and he will continue to use my brother against me, and now my friends, also threats of court, legal action and so on. And just the threat of Psychopathic rage for an indefinite period of time is enough to get anybody down!

So.... any advice, please?

- How do I deal with my brother, who I know is a victim, but shows some traits similar to his father? Do I back off from him as well? Do I have to sacrifice my relationship with him as well?
- How do I deal with my step father? Continue to ignore him?
- how do I deal with my friend? I have been very cold and distant since she made it fairly clear she has changed her opinion of me and is starting to believe the web of lies from my father and brother. Is there any point discussing it with her when she already sees me as the mad one?
- is there any point fighting a psychopath? I want to walk away but it's not so easy with this legal situation and family ties.

Thanks
C

hello cjp1,

welcome back. i had been following your posts and had wonder where you went off too. my story is pretty close to yours only it's my real dad and my mother (now with alzheimers) was completely his partner.. now dad and brother (similar to your brother) have suddenly put my mom in a home and left us (son and i) out of it completely - actually not allowing us any contact with the place. ==== this is just some background.

so, what to do? i hope to see more posts on this. this new turn of events.. his placing my mom in a home is another 'message' that 'wow' he has NO feelings except his own. He's not even an animal - he's a machine. And my brother has now taking over (seemlessly) my mothers old position - the complete partner. I've been so slowly accepting this. I guess I can do it in my brain but now my emotional core needs to catch up.

With these 'facts' what can I / you do? I really don't think anything.

Think how long it took for you to discover 'him'? And he was your father.. who really disappointed you. So will strangers ever 'see' him? It's doubtful. My dad is so skilled and slick at interpersonal relationships. Everyone loves him. (most everyone). He is in touch with the whole world from his grammar school to his new waitress. Knows everything about them. He doesn't 'care' but they don't know that. They think he does. And that's all that matters.

So - i don't think you'll ever be able to convince anyone of his defect.

Additionally, they can't be swayed. First off, my take on you is that you 'see' him and 'he' knows it. Once they know you know.. you're like a piece of glass in their skin. I always say, I couldn't coax him out of a burning building.

with that said.. my personal advise - for you.. for me... is to walk away and cut off communication to the best of your ability. if you can't do that.. at least don't try to negotiate. Letting go is the only true path to success and freedom.

my father is calling to give me updates on my moms status.. i'm nauseous from this - she was just an object for him that has lost it's value. he and my brother are now going through her things. what to do with what. and the scarry thing is (if it's true and they aren't lying) she's happy there. making friends (she never had her own life - for the last maybe 45 years.. did nothing without him.. with anyone else. not even her kids ). i'm still trying to figure out why i'm so disturbed.

the point is.. other people have NO value to a Psychopath except for their own ends. That's all. Think about it.. my Psychopath can look at his wife of 67 years through a window almost as if he's looking at a stranger. I'm so glad I'm not seeing this first hand.. but the truth is .. it keeps playing out it keeps playing out in my head.. my post should be the warning post of what happens if you stay a Psychopath.

Psychopaths and rage go hand in hand. Think about the extra rage of dealing with a Psychopath over a legal matter. Rage, they know all about it and thrive on projecting it on others so the first thing to consider is are you willing to go directly in front of their rage machine and pursue legal action even if you are "right".

I must say your question sent me back into the darkest part of my life and that was a corporate Psychopath within a major corporation, that I contracted with as a marketing consultant. The civil case is what area I would suspect any real estate wranglings would take place, we all know a Psychopath being Psychopaths will be lying and causing criminal actions but that will all be left out of the equation and, if the system worked like a breeze which I can assure you from personal experience it doesn't. I can't imagine what I went through having a clear cut civil case over the theft of my designs for a highly successful marketing program would have been extra crushing if it was a relative. My case was very clear cut, my designs that I created and owned the rights to were stolen. To give you the end first, I did prevail but at what costs?

The average civil suit can take up to 5 years+ on the average. There is a lot of confusion when people think, oh I'll get an attorney on contingency, not so fast, yes on one hand the attorney will gain a huge % of any settlement if they take your case on that basis. The catch is that you have to provide a trust fund of any out of pocket expenses this attorney occurs, depositions, picking up their pencil to make a note practically so now you enter the battle grounds to move forward with a civil suit. However now you have to factor in the mental anguish and destruction against the $ benefit.

If the average civil suit can and mostly does take up to 5 years can you put a value on that amount and see if it makes sense? I was lucky, I got bashed to the cement and luckily they weren't a family member because I can only dream of the extra horror. Now you have the pitting of other family members, the emails, the phone calls. At least with this Psychopath corporate person they weren't my family and I endured an experience that I would have to say ranks up there with the darkest years of my life. I concluded that in the end, I didn't really "win". I could have used those 5 years not being driven out of my mind with the lies etc. and made 10X the money.

Fortunately that is why hind sight is important to keep in mind and sharing what I would have done in hindsight I hope will help. With a family in the mix I can only magnify what happened to me would be so much higher crazy making, downright horrifying event it would be, I can't calculate how much worse it could have been. Really in the end it is all about money and protecting your rights? Are you really trading off your sanity for $.....???

So let's say you have % interest in this property which has a $ value of X. If you knew that dealing with this for the next 5 years+ might just wreck your own sanity, what is the trade off for your sanity I think is the big question.

We know how a Psychopath is going to operate. Attorneys operate on a premise of delay, delay, delay, so no matter what you can pretty much on the low side know you are in for a battle that will be a minimum of 5 years based on statistics and your anxiety is at it's highest and you will be fending off relatives, pushing your attorneys and the only result is you might be the one who will come out the other end more than likely crazy If you think dealing with them is crazy now, try on some track shoes to battle them over $.

What is the value of your sanity is the only thing I can ask. We can safely figure you are looking at a 5+ battle with a Psychopath over X amount of $.

I have asked myself that question for 15 years now. Would I do it all over again. Because it is clearly called the past because that just is what the word is and life doesn't have do overs I can only take from the experience lessons learned by surviving it. In my heart of hearts I would have spared myself of the quest for rights and $ equation knowing what it was like during those 5 years it took for me with a clear cut case, just like you clearly own a portion of this property Personally knowing what I now know about how Psychopaths and the legal system in general works, I wouldn't charge into the battle, no I would walk away.

It wasn't worth proving I was right even though after 5 years of pure hell I "won" and forced them to finally settle, I could have done a lot better things during those years which were the darkest years in my life, I can safely say, I would take back my sanity and walked from the $ and protecting my design rights.

We can only answer these questions for our selves with as much information to weigh any situation in life. We know and can only even think it will be worse case scenario over some property than a person can imagine when your opposition is a Psychopath. And if you win this property which clearly I can read from your post that is rightfully yours, will you really win?, you have the added twist that this is a family member so the horror lives on at full strength. If you "win" you will still be tied to this horror show. You will still be a player in this sick web of characters until when? The real estate market isn't exactly booming.

They will be doing what they do best and destroying you in the process or you could decide all that has some value and go to battle over this property. I would caution you to a very well thought out plan. If you think dealing with them now is horrific beyond any comprehension, get your helmet on the ride is just starting.

Now it is about information gathering to decide what to do next, only you can decide that. What is it going to cost in $, sanity and time and for what amount is that worth going after? Maybe a good old pros and con list is in order.

Perhaps making and writing down that simple list may help guide your decision. In rating the pros and cons I would ask myself the pro or con of what I know and can calculate also what it will do to my sanity. How much is at stake, if the property is worth millions then one could lay out a good argument that going into battle with a Psychopath at least you would know your opponent. Are you grounded enough with the proper boundaries to still be standing after 5 + years? Are there better things you could be doing with your time for the next 5+ years? Would dealing with accelerated evil for 5 years be a pro or a con? I am sure you get the picture, it would be interesting to lay out the pros and cons in dealing with a Psychopath that is a relative in a business dealings for our community.

Think they are raging mad now, they will thrive on the challenge of a fight and destruction.

Di

Hi daddysproblem,
Thanks for the reply, and I remember talking with you before, I had read some more of your posts as well. Since I was on here I made the decision to move countries, back from Spain to the UK, so have been really busy with the move! And dealing with all this... Yes, Daddy strikes just as my entire life is up in the air, moving house, job-hunting, leaving my friends and my own house behind... but I have a lot of support here.

I found your comments very interesting - you say your brother has taken over your mother's role as complete partner, that really struck me - my bro (and even my friend who is now dating him commented on this) has a creepily 'close' relationship with his father. He reminds me of the Manchurian candidate. You say you have intellectually accepted this and are catching up emotionally - I can relate to that. I'm sorry to hear about your own personal Hell and wish you strength to cope with it. I would love my brother to open his eyes but I doubt he ever will. My Mum hangs onto this hope, and what complicates this more is she wants us both to get on, which is natural. But with the Psychopath in the way, our relationship is severely strained.

I agree that there's very little one can do. In a way that's encouraging! Thanks for the comments about letting go and not trying to convince everyone, I am stepping right back from my friend, she has chosen not to be unbiased, and let's face it, that's not an option when dealing with a psychopath. I think you're right, I should step back and stop trying to convince her it's there, it's behind her! And it's really evil! It's like being the only one to see the monster, it's scary, like a horror film. But I should stop it. It took me years to work it out, so how's she going to do it in a few months? But it still hurts, after all those years of being close friends.

You are right that he knows I know him. The last time I saw him (a couple of years ago, after 5 or 6 years out of contact) he could not look me in the eye, stammered, was extremely uncomfortable around me. For the first time in a life-time I fronted up to him, I stared him down, and it was an amazing feeling after being subtly bullied for so long. So, he's intimidated by me, but still wants to crush me!....

I will think carefully about your advice, thanks. I am trying to walk away, but this damn house deal keeps us tied, and in a way he's been stringing this out when it is solvable, in order to maintain contact and continue to screw with me, that's my take. Even my solicitor said he is impossible to deal with, flies off into needless hysterical 'emotion' and will not get on and resolve matters, when they are fairly simple. I can see clearly now how much he enjoys the fighting, the distress, the anger etc.

I'm sorry about your family being so tied up in this, and your mother. I understand your nausea when he contacts you and obviously doesn't care about her. Contact with mine makes me feel sick as well. Like you, I will have to try and put this behind me, but I know what you mean - it plays on my mind all the time, it is crippling me in some discreet way, poisoning my life, taking up far too much space and energy.

Oh well, keep trying and good luck! I'm here to talk if and when you want to. I'll check up on here more often now I'm more settled.
x
C

Hi Dianne,
Thanks as always for your prompt reply and for your comments. Sorry to have thrown you back into the stress of the court case! I'd hate to send anyone back there.... I know what it's like. I have to point out here, I talked about it a little before when I was posting, this has, in fact, been going on for 7 years now already. Before I thought I was pretty close to resolution, however, a few months later, more complications have arisen and negotiations have now collapsed completely. So I appreciate the comments about holding onto your hat, it hasn't even started yet, but I am still standing (just) after 7 years!

I totally agree with you - my sanity is not worth any price. I started fighting this 7 years ago defiant and strong, sure it was the right thing to do. Now, after the energy-sapping experience, distress, nastiness, etc, and still we have got nowhere, I am beginning to regret ever having started it. However, on principle I don't want him to walk all over me, as he always did when I was a child. The other thing is, I have been supported by a legal professional, a family member, who has lots of experience dealing with Psychopaths and did, in fact, alert me to his condition, which has helped me enormously, and he has always encouraged me to stand my ground and not hand over my share for nothing. He has also promised to support me, and so far has done so. My mother is also behind me 100%, and agrees that I should withdraw the offer, and just hold onto it until he dies.

I find that it's a no-win situation, really. Of course, I don't want more years of hassle and hell, but my only option in that case is to give it to him for nothing and allow him to bully me once again. That way I would at least be free of him, but that's what he wants, to grind me down until I give up. The other option, ignoring him, and keeping my share, is no solution either, really, as he will continue to do everything he can to cause problems and upset me, and I will be legally tied to him all his life. I agree with you, it is a horrible, pointless, wearying situation, I thought we had a way out, and now we are back precisely nowhere. I have been advised (by someone who knows how to handle Psychopaths) to let him rage, let him manipulate, let him wind himself up to a frenzy, and just ignore it all. Now he is threatening to take me to court etc etc, but he has never taken anyone to court in his life, it's all hot air. He would not dare call me on the phone, as in a weird way he is intimidated by me now. He can only send emails which I can store in a folder and ignore.

I think ignoring is the way to walk away. This is the conclusion I am coming to now. Handing it over or selling it really cheap may leave me liable for a massive tax bill I don't have the money to pay. There's little he can do to me really that he hasn't already done. But like I said, the more I read here, the more I am convinced that there is no way to negotiate with a Psychopath, you can never win, and it's not worth damaging and wearying myself further with this. So for the moment I have to conclude that I just walk away and stop trying to sort it our logically or legally.

I shall think carefully about your comments, thank you. For now I am ignoring any contact/angry letter/emails/attempts to drag my brother into it.

Thanks again for the support and advice. It must be very hard for you to talk about this after so long dealing with it yourself.
x
C

Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply. I am willing to answer any questions, not to worry, some good came out of it, the forum which started sideways, I discovered who I was dealing with by starting the forum out of curiosity about Psychopaths. I learned my neutral zone. I doubt we only have one run in with a Psychopath in our lifetime because there have been no studies about how many are in the general population. The figures have never been updated since the early prison studies so I have a hard time grasping it is only 1 - 3%.

That is the pattern, when you start to think it is almost over something always comes up.

I have been thinking about your position being part owner of the property. I would ask your attorney what your liabilities are, who knows what could happen and if your name is on the deed you might just go down with the ship. If someone were to get injured at the property and sue, if they don't pay the taxes, the list goes on. I am very concerned about what your legal exposure might be. In your case it is something to really add into the equation. How vulnerable are you legally by having your name on the deed?

A wise member here posted, sometimes winning means walking away.

Di

Hi Dianne,
Thanks for your further thoughts about my situation. I have checked with my solicitor what my liabilities are, I completely agree with you about being liable potentially for financial shenanigans he is responsible for, this is something that has worried me all along - I don't want to be on the same deeds as him for anything, as he always creates debt, problems, fraudulent situations etc. I also agree that sometimes it is better to walk away, it takes more strength than fighting. However, if I hand over my share now I could still be liable for a huge tax bill, as it will look to the tax authorities like a scam among the family. I feel I have no option but to insist he buys my share and cover me for my tax liabilities, and I am following the advice of my family member who is the legal professional. On his advice I am ignoring the communications from my stepfather unless they are prepared to continue with the offer on my terms. Today I've received another email, this time mentioning money again (among the threats, legal nonsense and serious attempts at manipulation). I am waiting for more advice from my legal help, and am going to try and resolve this by selling up. My stepfather is now attempting to appear the reasonable, hurt party, who has always had my best interests at heart all along etc etc.... It is very interesting, he is trying to get me to meet up with him to discuss the legal issues. I say interesting because it appears to me to be a typical psychopath trick. There is no way I am meeting up with him so he can try and bully me, co-erce me, or intimidate me. He knows everything else he is trying is not working, as I have stood firm and not engaged in the mud-slinging, etc. I think the best thing to do now is to sit tight and wait and see, the tone of his latest communication suggests to me that he is desperate now, trying every tactic he can think of.

Thank you for your help and support, I really appreciate it. I also had other comments which were very helpful - about not being able to sway other peoples' opinions, and just having to let it go when it comes to putting my side of the story across.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted. I have a couple of other questions which I will ask later on when the immediate problems are sorted - about counselling and professional help, as I feel I need some.

Thanks again,
C

I also have to say sth in this topic. As I also have this legal issue with my Psychopath.
He has tried literally everything to make me look crazy. And whats terrible is that people believe him, he is so convincing.
What I have learned though is that what he makes up about me is EXACTLY what he is like. I mean, he (maybe even thinks so, being a Psychopath) convinces everyone that I am what he really is. He probably sees it his eyes - he thinks Im gonna do what he would do in my place.

So in some way it is good - coz he is very predictable. He is still trying to manipulate me. And I just won't let him now, no matter what.

This whole thing scares me, coz his rage will surely burst soon. Luckily I have a great friend who supports me and can calm me down whenever I feel stressed again. He also encourages me to do everything I can, and really helps me. I don't think I could do it without him.

I feel really scared of what's coming, but it scares me even more to let go. It's just something I'm gonna do, no matter what the consequences. Coz it's not important for me to even win this case. What's important for me to show not him, but myself and others, that I will never take this abuse. And neither should they.


I see it as a "you cannot lose" situation. I have nothing to lose. And everything to gain.

BTW: if I win, and there's financial compensation, I'm giving part of it, probably half of it to the friend who helped me so much.

Newbird, I hope things get worked through for you (with the legal esp) soon.

My lawyer told me that ex h still owes me the $ he never paid as it is considered my property. My bankruptcy apparently has nothing to do with what he owes as to wiping that out on his part, it will be ongoing that he does owe me. I don't plan to at least for now going after him for it, as we all know getting anything out of them is pretty much a waste of time. He took me to the cleaners as this HUGE debt was accumulated with him in the coming & going & property that ended up I took a tremendous loss on (virtually worth almost nothing), it was something I could not get sold on my own as it was not to where I could get to it (had to do everything via the phone) & it tooks months & so much time to get rid of. It was continual spending (when together) of which was all on me to pay (in the end) & nothing at all monetarily to show for it.

I truely do not understand him at all as everything he told me from his mouth (dreams, promises, so much talk) on his part amounted to nothing. It is as if his words are empty. He is typical Psychopath. It will take yrs to recover if I ever do.

Hello to the newbies.

Hi Newbird,
Thanks for writing to me, haven't been looking on here for a few days - working and also been in a bit of a slump due to Stepfather's latest abusive emails, and threats to take me to court. Sometimes I can cope with it, sometimes it sends me into a weird state for a couple of days - extremely tired and down, completely drained. Anyway, better now!
Sorry to hear you are in a similar legal nightmare. I found your comments really interesting about projection - my stepfather does exactly the same thing: what he accuses me/anyone else of is exactly what he is/ he does. Exactly. So, like you say, it's quite a good way to 'read' him, just look at the accusations and that's what he's thinking/doing/planning. My mother worked this out years ago. I might even go back to his latest vile ranting and have dispassionate look throught to give me some clues what he's about to do/is thinking!...

I also agree with you about not giving up, about the argument not being about the money or winning, it's about not being bullied and abused this one last time. This is why I am finding this situation so confusing - part of me doesn't want to give up no matter what, it's a principle, I have to stand up for myself after a lifetime of being trampled on, but another part of me realises how exhausting it is to fight and how much it has damaged me. I would really like a solution to this, as I am finding it really hard to think of this continuing indefinitely for the next X number of years, and the effect it will have on me. Of course, his opinion of me/treatment of me will never change, but once this is resolved I am no longer tied to him legally and can walk away. I don't seem able to feel the same way as you though - that I have nothing to lose. I feel as though I am already losing (my close friend's opinion of me, my brother, my own peace of mind, to name a few things). Hopefully I will come to the same conclusion soon - that I am winning. I felt that way for along time, but we are now almost 7 years on, and I feel pretty weary and ground down by it.

I'm glad you have some close friends supporting you, I think it's so important to have someone who believes you and supports you. I really hope it goes well for you. I understand what you mean about feeling scared, my stepfather's outbursts scare me (not him exactly, but the nature of the bile, the anger, the sheer nastiness of his rage and not knowing how long he will be in this state. It's hard coming to terms with knowing someone hates you that much and would go to any lengths to destroy/defame you).
Hang in there!
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C