this is the statement i am referring to (for some reason it didn't show up on my post):
"These P's all seem to have big sexual hang ups. Any abusive types I have talked with, have all been sexually abused as children. In reliving their drama/trauma, innocent people are being accused of what the original abusers did to the P's."

I said in an earlier post:
>>As I see and talk to the P. even less I feel like I'm not as confused. I am working so hard on breaking those emotional ties.<<

I feel an emptiness. I know I just feel the loss of a frienship I thought I had. I have been grieving for a long time. Sometimes getting stuck in the pain, although that is now getting better. As I pull further and further away the P. does call me less. I think I hold on to waiting for him to call because that takes away a little bit of the sting that he reduced me to nothing, during the devaluation phase. I guess if he calls I feel like "I must not be nothing" he still cares. hmmm. What a thought uhh.

I also know that as he pulls further away, that all his focus is going on his new primary target (although I believe I am his secondary supply of narcissm). I can only hold onto the thought that in about a year from now his new target will be as lost and as hurt as I have been. I actually have prayed for her.

I know that when I read the books and all the posts on this forum that he truly fits almost all the criteria. So sad. Sad that some people could do these things to others. I know all of us targets have been deeply affected and our lifes change for ever. Anyway mine has.

I can say now that I have had days, occasionally a few in a row where I feel better, and where the thoughts of the discusting evil events of the past 2 years doesn't even enter my mind. I also know that the injury to me emotionally has been very traumatic, and I have to continue to work so very very hard to heal, and not get sucked back into the injury, which most of it is now just in my thoughts and memory.

Thanks for the suggestions on the book to read about trauma bonding. I hope to read it this week.

Finished - when do you find out about your job?

Bye for now.
betterway

>>I had to stop by P#2 store two days ago. he was ordering a present for someone over the phone. when he hung up i was joking and asked if he was ordering my present. he said if you would have been at the christmas party you would have got some money. but since you weren't there i (p#2) gave your money to someone else.<<

finished,
I was thinking about you today. I have worked for this company for 4 yrs and this was the first year I didn't receive a card or a gift from the company. I suppose since I didn't go to the party, I don't deserve one. Just another example of how the P. has poisoned the office. I do have to say there are a select few in the office that talk to me as if I am an inteligent person. They have not let the P. poisoned them. It is so hard to believe how much control the P. has over the company. He has made one of the owners one of his targets, and she has allowed him in.

I keep wondering today, why I continue to work for this place. Make money for the owners.

I just put a big deal together and cut my commission just a little (which does affect the company a little bit) to make the deal happen. When I told the owner that the deal might not have happened if I didn't cut a little bit, she just sighed one of those discusting controlling sighs. She is so ignorant to how sales works.

Finished - It just amazes me how much our stories are alike, since we worked with the P. I sometimes wonder if the P's go to school or something to plan how to manipulate and brainwash us unsuspecting targets.

Have been having some PTSD. Just hope one day I will be totally free of all these memories.

Just want everybody to know I miss all the posting. I realize it is the holidays. Hope you all have a Happy New Year.

betterway

Hi Betterway. . .
The hard drive crashed on my computer after my last post and I just now got it fixed and back to my life line here. i sure have missed you all.

>>Finished - It just amazes me how much our stories are alike, since we worked with the P. I sometimes wonder if the P's go to school or something to plan how to manipulate and brainwash us unsuspecting targets<<

It's in their nature, it just comes naturally. The reality of it all is many times to much to bear. It is still difficult for me to accept that he really never cared about me that I was just a challenge and someone that he could use. I must keep focused on the evidence because it would be so much easier to try to kid myself.

I still have not heard about the job. I have called to check but the person that makes the decesion has been out of the office. Since I have not heard a "no", there is still a possibility!

I also still suffer from the PTSD. I finally did go to a medical doctor and got some meds. I actually got so bad my heart was pounding out of my chest all day and I couldn't sleep at night. This P encounter has changed me in so many ways. I NEVER EVER had a panic or anxiety attack before this and I've been through alot (P#1 was an alcholic)but compared to P#2 a walk in the park. . .

I feel like I'm getting better but somedays are still a little rough. I just do the best I can one day at a time.

Hope all is going well with you Betterway. . .I have a lot of catching up to do (reading through the posts).

Be back tommorrow!

Finished

Finished,
So glad you are back. I wondered what happened to you. I've had the flu today, so heading off to bed. betterway

what is PTSD?

freedom

"It is still difficult for me to accept that he really never cared about me that I was just a challenge and someone that he could use. I must keep focused on the evidence because it would be so much easier to try to kid myself."

"i must keep focused on the evidence"
i like that
it is so true
to keep focused on the evidence
again i have to say it
the truth shall set us free

it does seem that destiny is on my side
because i could have easily seeing him tonight
and he was taking all the good turn
to lose me one more day
so God help me
He surely did

i went out tonight dancing
he was looking for me
he asked a friend where i was
she said she was not a detective
he then prodeeded telling her how he is rich
he got his money from royalty
we all know better
that the reason is even driving a car
and live in a beautiful house
and even has a cell phone
is because he has found another sucker like me
and the rest of the ladies
i met
that he sucked in his little game
he is a real clown he can make us laugh
when we just want to cry
and after the laugh is over it is reality
that we have been con

love you'all
freedom



freedom

Betterway. . .me too. . .got the flu. I'll be glad to be up to speed and posting again. .
hope you are better. . .
finished

rick b

01/04/03 06:09 PM

my story

It has been one month since "D Day"..... when the light bulb went off and I put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. I found this forum a few days later. It has been comforting, informative and inspirational.

Perhaps I can bring a new perspective to the forum being that I am a man. And, from what I have read online, considering that I am gay, I guess that I stand alone.

Writing has always been cathartic for me, and I realize that I cannotfully move ahead until I organize my thoughts in this manner. I hope that what I have to pass on may be helpful in some way to someone out there.
Here is my story.

I met my P for the first time last June. I was nearing the end of a ten year relationship and my heart was breaking. It had been a tragic eight months for me. I was fragile, needy, ready for a distraction and some attention. Straight
or gay... I had heard from single friends throughout the country how difficult it was to meet intelligent, available, sane people these days. My Pappeared to possess all the qualities that I hoped to meet in another person
.... not into drugs, excessive drinking, unsafe sex, or anything crazy. He listened to me and gave me the impression that he understood all that I was going through.
He told me that he had never met anyone so incredibly sincere, honest and straightforward. As I separated permanently from my partner I was drawn in closer to my P. I felt "lucky" to have met a caring, loving person so quickly. The attraction was hypnotic.

At that time he had insisted that we see each other exclusively. I told him that I would probably regret it if I didn't at least give it a chance. I was amazed at how affectionate and attentive he was. This more than made up for the fact that I could not establish any type of loving eye contact with him. I remember thinking that it felt as if he could never get close enough.... as if he was trying to feed off of me. How true!

I established a good connection with both his mother and his brother, both of whom ran the day to day operations of two of his businesses (but were kept away from the books, etc..) I had a few casual meetings with some of his neighbors. I never met any of his friends that he spoke of, though. Typically, they lived in other parts of the country... or so he said. His life had taken him to many interesting parts of the world and, although many of his experiences were confirmed by his family, a lot of it sounded rather embellished. He was completely fascinated
by successful and ambitious people, fast cars and extravagance. I had been captivated by much the same at one point in my life and I attributed this to
his age...being only 27.

We both had busy lives with work, friends and family. Aside from the two businesses he was constantly dealing with other projects, ideas and inventions. We saw each other sporadically and that was fine with me at the time.
Often, though, his stories of how he spent his time would change from one week to the next. I didn't want to come across as untrusting , so I never questioned these inconsistencies. In addition, he never wanted to make
plans in advance, always waiting to the last minute to get together for dinner, etc... I tried to be understanding by giving him his space and being flexible.

Slowly, though, my intuition started sending me warning signals. I really couldn't describe it specifically. It just felt as if something was not correct. I talked about this with my friends and my therapist. I thought that I had been so damaged from my last relationship that I was
not allowing myself to trust this new person in my life. I kept trying to brush these feelings aside.

The turning point came when my life, as I had known it, suddenly came to an abrupt halt. My ex-partner moved out of town, as did one of my closest friends and my business started to decline. Suddenly I had a lot of free
time on my hands and I found myself trying to get closer to my P and his brother..... helping out on projects, trying to make plans with them.

It occurred to me that my P never told me how he felt about me. I brought it to his attention one evening. "I don't like to talk about my feelings, I prefer to show people how I feel" was his response. At the time I thought this was reasonable and I took it in stride. I also told him that I took commitment rather seriously and that I could
see myself working towards that with him. I now realize, this did not sit too well with my P. Suddenly, it was as if only the cold water valve on the shower would work and he
started getting more distant. We slept together frequently, but the sex had pretty much come to an end along with any other form of affection. Even his hugs became cold...
with the dreaded triple pat on the back, dismissing me. When he felt me backing off, pulling away and giving him more space he would say something to reel me back in and make my heart melt. I started to feel like a ping pong ball.

Although I did not realize it at the time I was at his total disposal...running errands and being available whenever he needed me for something, Somehow I just could not say "no." Still, however, red flags kept coming my way. It wasn't that I chose to ignore them, in fact I talked about them with my friends. I guess it was the inability to string them together to form a cohesive picture of what was going on.
We all want to trust.

One issue that raised my eyebrow occurred when I was on a trip out of town helping my best friend move into a new home. I wanted to return one day early but I didn't want to
insult my friend. My P suggested that I tell my friend that something had come up with my job and it was important that I get back. I told him " I don't operate that way" and
that I would just tell my friend the truth.... that I was feeling like I needed to get back and I had stayed long enough.

Shortly thereafter my P's dog was stolen. When he told me about the incident he didn't seem to be disturbed or concerned stating that his brother was really worried and upset...as was his mother. The dog was returned three days later and, still, my P could only tell me how happy
and relieved his brother was. I thought this was odd.

We went to an action-packed movie one evening, a real thriller. My body jerked around in the seat, involuntarily, with the fast chase scenes, close calls and unexpected twists and turns such films make. Thinking back on it, although it barely registered at the time, my P sat through
the entire picture cool as a cucumber.

One evening I pulled his brother aside and told him how happy I was to be dating my P....and that I was fine with the fact that he had insisted on the exclusivity. It made me feel as if I were not squandering my energies. His brother didn't say anything in response....and just sat there
quietly with an odd look on his face. Obviously he was disturbed by what I said.

We continued to spend quite a bit of time together, although he started working late more often or had
meetings to go to at night. Sometimes he would come over late. His family even stayed overnight at my house one holiday evening. He acted proud to show them my home.

I tried to get a hold of my feelings but I could not shake the sensation of being imbalanced, out of whack. I talked about this, again, with my therapist and even went for acupuncture, both of which helped me quite a bit in the past. Something about this situation was not sitting well with me but I still couldn't put my finger on it.

I asked him several times if he wanted to see other people, if he wasn't attracted to me...and he always looked at me like I was crazy and would answer with the question "why would you say that?" I told him that I just could not read him. A lot of people told him that, he said.

Finally I stopped by his house , one evening, after he cancelled on me at the last minute. I needed to get a lot off of my chest and I laid it all out in front of him.... that I had been honest with him and wasn't seeing anyone else... that I was a man of my word... that I loved
him as a friend and could love him as a partner if he gave me the chance. He just kept looking at me with a blank expression and kept repeating "we have to talk about this next week". I told him that I had no idea how he felt about me. If he was interested in someone else to please tell me so I could move on with my life. My heart had already been broken once this year. He just continued to look at me with a blank expression in his face, absolutely no emotion whatsoever. As I pulled away from his house something made me look in the rearview mirror. I saw another car pull up. I had missed his date by 35 seconds! I walked back into the house purposefully, his date was seated on the sofa. I went up to my P's face and said to him very calmly "thank you"... turned on my heel and left.

I was furious and insulted. Still I kept my wits about me and immediately got on the internet when I returned home. I conducted a search for "compulsive lying" which brought me to psychopath within minutes. What I read chilled me to the bone and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up straight. Suddenly everything came into place. I researched further into narcissistic personality disorder and even more pieces of the puzzle started to fit together. I created a list of 35 of the personality traits that I culled from the various articles that I read. I was amazed that this person fit almost every one of them, and how they jogged my memory of events and circumstances that had happened. I was scared and elated at the same time. But could I be the only one that truly new about this? What about his mother and his brother? I realized that I had been too close to the situation to put together the whole picture....but could it be that they did not know, or were they just holding back on me?

I talked with friends and relatives and was astounded at how many people had come across, or had been involved with, other people like this. One close friend had grown up with a psychopath/narcissist mother. She offered me the most valuable insight and support. And, again, I spoke with my therapist, although I was wary because I had read somewhere that psychopaths tend to be attracted to that particular
field. I couldn't help but feel that he seemed to be just a little bit uncomfortable that day.

My mood fluctuated between feeling knowledgeable and free and depression from the grim reality at hand. I even felt scared for my life, that I had been shaken by the roots. I couldn't be in my house without the alarm on. That is where this forum has been most helpful. No one truly knows the emptiness of having solved this crime...other than those that have been there themselves. When we hear that someone
is terminally ill we can comfort them in some way and in so doing know that we are of use. But in this plot twist
of a trilogy, we play detectives uncovering the fact that, in reality, we are the victims.

Everything that I read, and all of the people that I spoke with concurred..... no contact and get as far away
from the center of this picture as possible. However, my inner voice was driving me on two points. Although I had given my P innumerable gifts, I had loaned him something of sentimental value when we went on a trip out of town shortly before I came to my discovery. So, four days after that fateful night I stopped by his house with backup.... a friend came with me. I found my P and his brother in the backyard...marched right up to him and demanded, in a very stern voice, that the item be returned... now! I had to
repeat myself several times. He had never heard me speak in this manner and stand my ground. It, clearly, disturbed him because he hopped to it. l left there, shaken, because it was the first time I had seen him knowing the truth. The glazed, emotionless look in his eyes shook me beyond belief. Still, I felt like I had taken
some of my power back.

That night I had a breakdown, of sorts. I started crying at the realization of the situation at hand.... that
nothing could be done. The noise that came out of my mouth scared me. I thought, surely, my neighbors
would call the police. I hadn't known I was capable of releasing the pain and anguish in such a primal,
gut wrenching, loud manner.

I continued my research and struggled with speaking with his mother. How could I tell a mother that her son was a psychopath...unless she already knew?! It has been one of the most gut wrenching decisions that I have ever struggled with. It haunted me. Finally, I picked up the phone later
that week and called her. She told me that she had been meaning to call me for weeks to see if I could
recommend a therapist for her son! She couldn't figure him out. She didn't understand why he lied so much...
why he couldn't stay involved with anyone in a relationship, why she could never get a meaningful hug
out of him. I was so relieved. Although we spoke for almost three hours that day I could not tell her what I knew on the phone. I didn't think it was appropriate. It did give me the opportunity to gather a lot of information about my P, though. Between massive head trauma at age two (resulting in his losing his hearing in one ear), possible genetic predisposition from his father , probable sexual assault as a toddler and issues with authoritative figures (the maternal grandmother is another story unto herself) ..... this guy is a textbook case.

We met the following week and spent one entire day together. It was exhausting and she had difficulty with the truth... although I tried my best to break it to her gently. I witnessed the look on her face when it all started making sense to her though. It was a revelation and the stories started spilling out of her mouth about "this time" and "that time", etc....

I have spoken with his mother many times since. I constantly remind her of how wonderful she truly is.... powerful, loving, caring, nurturing and understanding. She now realizes these amazing qualities are stripped when she is around her P son... how controlled she and her other son have been for so many years. Our P has manipulated many people and situations, always to his advantage and gain. It is in her hands now and I feel like my work has been done with her P son.

My P called me once to "apologize I guess" for what had happened. In his monotone voice he told me how he thought we would be "friends for a long time and didn't think things would turn out this way." He wanted to get together, at least, one more time so we could talk. I told him that I imagined that "perhaps" it was difficult for him to call me....I wasn't comfortable with seeing him at the moment and needed some time and space....and, quite frankly, I wasn't sure when I would be ready to see him again. I thought he registered a note of surprise or disappointment when he said "well, I guess I'll have to wait to hear from you"...but that could have been my imagination, or my memory, playing a trick on me. No doubt!

I am taking the no contact rule quite seriously and have found that, as a result, each day gets easier and I feel more balanced and grounded. Still, though, I mourn for what I now realize was not returned to me in this relationship.... compassion, empathy, understanding and love.... probably because I have so much of that to give. I have moved passed the bitter stage because, intellectually, I realize that my P simply does not have any of these qualities to share with another person... any person. Therefore, how can I possibly take it personally? In a strange way it makes my heart open up and love him even more. I understand.