Hi there,
I'm new to this forum.
After many months/years researching psychopathy and narcissism I have truly come to accept
that my mother and father are true psychopaths.

I'm an only child, so I feel so completely lost
and terrified. I'm a young adult now.

However, I have had severe depression/anxiety/mental anguish that left s unable to function so I moved back with my parents.
I'm trying to heal my self, And I'm doing better by taking classes to get a better job. etc

However, I am still here.
I hoped that I would be able to heal
But it seemed like my parents enjoyed me being so weak.
They call me a loser, lazy, worthless.
I relapsed into severe depression/anxiety
and feel complety useless and inadequate most days

they love to watch the news all day long
its like they feed off of negative energy
and enjoy looking at anguish

Yesterday, my dad took something of mine. And I knew it was mine
because of how girly it was..pink and hearts/etc He claimed he bought it for himself
Complete lies.

So I tried to take it back when he wasn't looking.
He came at me and started attacking me, trying to grab my throat
and smother my face.

When I was a child he was pretty violent to me..
but only with the context of I was a 'bad' child

I would be belted enough to get welts, hit on the head.
But I thought this was my fault for 'disrepecting' him.

As I grew older he stopped because I could run away, lock my door.
And one day I just grabbed the belt and said no more!
I was strong enough to defend myself.

I was strong enough to get away from him the other day.
But it was so scary.

I called my mother out yesterday. She stood and watched as he attacked me and did not say a word.
I've never seen any emotioins from this women
And whenever I say I felt hurt.. when you did.. blank blank blank
she would just laugh and say "oh that was a joke..."
or "I did not do that..."
Or just completely ignore me
and say why how I'm hurting HER for saying such things...?
so frustrating... sometimes I would feel crazy.

she is completly is in her own fantasy land.

It was truly scary, because for a glimpse I saw these really evil eyes.
It was if she was mad/raging at me for finally figuring out what she truly is

Her eyes gave me a glimpse, that her words and actions were truly false.
I'm truly terrified
And I don't really know how to deal with them
I really need to move.

I feel stronger now.
But these are the only people I have in life.
I don't want to believe that they don't love me
So I think that is what I was struggling with.
I don't want to leave them
because they are all I have

But
yesterday I saw some truly scary things
They are empty people.

Today, she is pretends to be so nice..i.e her image of the perfect mother..
Ignoring what happened. It's like saying to me 'hey, pretend I'm a normal mother, tell me it's ok to treat you like you are an object'
it's so scary.

I have no idea how to act/and who to trust.
Because I seem to attract these type of people
in my life.
My second boyfriend was where I first learned of what a psycopath was..
I found this site called "are you dating a loser" http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/loser/

It seems like I attract friends who are nice at first.. but then completly use you later and drop you.
But now that I'm more aware of the charactistics
It's a lot easier to identify these people now
I felt really proud of myself
For recognizing a fellow classmate of mine before I got too close to her flattery.

She seemed to hone in on me really quickly to be a friend, but we had to work on a group project together this semester
and I quickly saw the red flags working close with her
So, I kept my distance
ehh I felt really bad because she is so 'nice'


.ehh.

I think you need to move out, otherwise they will do a lot of bad things. This I know from my own experience.

Psychopaths do not have any emotions, they fake emotions, for example my mother either sheds crocodile tears or swears on the phone. One extreme or the other.

Another psychopath I know (a woman in her 40s) always bears a smile on her face. She is undetectable.

I don't know if this may be an option for you, but some cities have mental health centeres where they have support for those in crisis & group home settings for those in transition. I wonder if maybe you would qualify under the circumstances. It sounds like you are suffering a lot of ptsd from the trauma & you need to get away from the situation in order to heal.
If they have each other (your parents) they aren't likely to change, there is no motivation if they have been like this & with you. I pray you can get yourself into a more safe situation & soon. They may love you but they don't know how to show it. It's good for you to find support so you can at least love yourself, away from the abuse.

1Healing: I need to interject here. If these parents are psychopaths they have no capacity for change. They are incapable of love. That is the crux of the matter with these aliens. When we say things like 'they love you but can't show it'.. it opens doors to possibilities that they can be taught to show it.. since the underlying love is there.

Impossible. That's why all the victims on here are so very 'special'.

IMHO

I just want to post a short reply here.

Gees your post brings up a few emotions in me – I felt the same for much of my life. This is such a hard situation for a young person to be in.

How old you are? What is your financial situation - re job? Do you have any support outside of the home? Are there any older people that you can talk to. You need some people on your side that you can trust.....

I'm someone who was caught in a horrific situation with my father who had a tight web around me and I wish I had escaped earlier in life. I also ended up attracting personality types similar to my father. It becomes a huge blind spot when you’re raised by a psychopath.

Like others have said here - if you're parents are truly Psychopaths then you needed to leave. It’s almost impossible to find your “true self” and your own “inner strength” whilst your living with them and the emotional damage can be long lasting.

Calling you “a loser, lazy, worthless” is mental abuse and its purpose is to keep you dependent and under their control. It’s not the truth – it’s just “Gas lighting”! If you can leave and go it alone you will find that your anxiety diminishes and you’ll stop feeling inadequate. It's them - not you.

If you are able to leave then treat it like a Band-Aid. Don’t tell them. Don’t infer that your leaving and don’t argue with them – just leave and never look back.

By the way - if you feel inadequate and have anxiety then you should feel good that you haven’t inherited your parent’s disorder. Such feelings are normal in your situation but they are also the play things psychopaths.

Honestly this is a very tough situation that can on;y be understood by going through it.

Your obviously on the ball enough to recognise whats happening and thats a great sign.

All the best

SOP

I was married to psychopath so that is where my perspective comes from. I think ex h Psychopath loved his children but he was not able to provide stability in their lives because he prefers chaos. I saw him come in & out of their lives at drop of hat. It seems it's about the attention he can bring to himself/what he can get from (them, others) rather than any kind of genuine grounding in life.

I do hear you about Psychopaths not being able to love, but from what I saw/experienced, I think he felt love but is not able to live in that love. He continually blocks/rejects & turns over tables. It's an arrested development (they say in early childhood).

When ex h Psychopath left I was convinced at that time he wasn't going to change, he was perfectly happy with the instability. I said a few choice words when he left for the last time, so he would not come back again! I knew exactly what I was saying, I think it probably stuck & he knew I was done playing his game.

When I post to this forum, it does help me in letting go of my anger/frustration at what happened (at least for a time & in my healing).

Totally agree with you there.

Love isn't about yourself. It's about 'the other' person, and who they are, what they think and feel, how they are different from you, what those differences are, how they change, develop, grow.

For a psychopath, 'the other' has no right to exist as a separate entity. They have no right to their own thoughts, feelings, needs. And I'm including even very basic needs here, such as food, warmth and sleep (I once went without food for 2 weeks, because my dad decided I didn't have the right to food).

The only right other people have is to act as fodder for the psychopath.

I don't see any love there. None.




Agreed, again.

My dad didn't love me. There was no underlying love.

There was no dialogue with me, ever. The dialogue was in his head, with himself. I was merely the object that facilitated that dialogue.

nomorenofear, I'm glad you found this forum, although very sad for what has brought you here.

You've already come a long way in realising the kinds of people that you are dealing with and in having an understanding of your situation and of your needs. That all shows that you have a great deal of insight, are very strong and have a great deal of courage. That's something to be very proud of and to hold on to.

I agree with SonOfaPsychopath. Some outside help with make a big difference, and give you an enormous amount of strength. Do you have domestic violence helpline that you could call? Or a child abuse line (I'm not sure how old you are)? You can call these places in confidence and on your own terms. You don't even have to tell them your real name. They won't tell you want to do, but will give you the time and space to work out how you feel and what you want to do (something that psychopaths deliberately try and deprive you of, as a way of overwhelming you).

It is really frightening to try and reach out and ask for help. I really do understand the feeling of mistrusting people and of there being no safe place. But you have a great instinct about people, as you've written in your post - there are people that you know you can't trust. There are also very kind people in the world. People who, for whatever reason, are willing to reach out and give someone a helping hand up. I promise you that you'll find them. You're already on your way

Didn't mean to step on toes. Sharing from my perspective.. I was hurt horribly by him (ex h Psychopath) & there's no doubt in my mind he is one.. I saw him as completely arrested in his development of conscious, & fitting Dr. Hare's Psychopath scale all but 2 or 3 of the 40.
I'm not making excuses for a Psychopaths behavior at all, just sharing some ideas on how to deal with (or not).
I guess how I see it too is that the bible does say to, "honor thy mother & father," it may not be that one can have any cohesive relationship with them, but since biologically related to them, but for the psyche & healing it helps to understand the reasons why (when possible) they do what they do/ spiritually & in healing.

I get so upset I can't see straight, still, as what ex h did to me is beyond my human comprehension, so I totally get this .. & again it's my own perspective I'm speaking of (just as you are saying they do not allow one to have a perspective.. this one is mine ).

1Healing

If your ex felt love... you were probably just married to an a-hole, not a psychopath.

A psychopath is a clinical term. It is a personality disorder. With characteristics such as: LACK (ABSENT OF) of empathy, LACK of compassion,LACK of remorse, LACK of conscience. Love would require all of these things.

I personally think you are in the wrong forum if your ex is not a Psychopath.

My father, the psychopath, has systematically destroyed 4 children and a wife. There is NO love... none. Everything in his mind is about him. How it affects him at the moment. He never puts anyone first (only to manipulate) HE IS EVIL.

A psychopathic parent should be removed of every parental right they have if the children are to be safe.

Personally, it's comments like yours that has made my life such anguish. I've spent my entire life trying to negotiate love from my father. I have figuratively beat my head against a concrete wall trying to behave in a way that he would love me. He just hates me more. They say the one thing a psychopath hates is people like me.. trying to express feelings and compromise. They only tolerate their minions. Minions who never question them. Or the weak.. that depend on them. There is NO room in the Psychopaths life except for the psychopath. There is a huge difference between being an a-hole and a psychopath. The psychopath will never change, can never change, doesn't see anything is wrong with THEM. PURE EVIL.

They are KILLERS. KILLERS of the soul..

It is beyond human comprehension. I think you're right.

You sound a lot like me, in that you like to understand why something happened and why people are the way they are, and also give them the benefit of the doubt.

One thing that has helped me though, is to focus less on them and more on me. What I mean, is to focus on how I feel and think about things, and how I want to deal with it all. I haven't managed this all by myself though, I've had a lot of help from some very good (and some terrible) mental health professionals and it's taken many years and a lot of very hard work. Not to say I'm done with it, I'm still working hard at it.

In doing all of that, you're shifting the focus away from them and back on to yourself. And also giving yourself the control over how you want your future to be, when it was all about them in the past.

I know you're already doing this in the path you've taken.

nomorenofear.. I wrote my comments because of what I consider to be the most challenging aspect of having psychopaths as parents. Everyone in the world will think that your parents love you and you should try. And if don't try that somehow it's partially your fault.

Unfortunately you will never fit in with the majority of the world. This is what hits me so hard, especially during the holidays. The focus in society is FAMILY. So, to have to disconnect from FAMILY, especially PARENTS.. is going to be very hard on the level of being a member of society.

That being said, I REGRET more than anything that I went back to them, over and over again. I'm nearing retirement age and live with this REGRET daily. I'm so angry that I wasted my youth and inflicted their filth on my son.

And this is why I agree with SOP and the Starry's. Leave and find help. If you can't find anything.. reach out to this forum and maybe we can find more ideas on how you can get out. There's an organization called NAMI that has branches around the country. I would think they would have resources for you to get out. Do you have a job? If you don't have enough money for a place of your own, maybe find someone renting a room.

There are nice people around.. but unfortunately, now this is my take on dealing with others and forming relationships. The bar is really high as to how much dysfunction I am comfortable with. I've put up with alot of bad behavior, so it takes alot to rock my boat. Which is not good, because it takes me a long time to realize I've entered into a relationship with someone who is way to similar to my family. Oh well, life is a journey. Let's say you start 5 friendships.. and only 1 works out.. well, that's one friend.. one more than you had before.

Keep us posted.. and keep posting here..

I agree that healing is hard work & takes time. I did not recognize this right away & they seem to keep this facade going long enough to reel a person in. So probably it's quite different having a parent as psychopath than being with them for a time. I think it would be VITAL to have complete independence from them, in protecting self.

I would watch him turn on a dime. I DO think he loves his kids & I think he does love but he does NOT live in the love. He has to be in chaos & that he causes, the goal is to keep attention to himself. He claimed high Christian morals & beliefs but he lives a life that is opposite of this. Totally it has to be about healing. Again, probably being married to Psychopath is different.

NAMI is a good idea, they are nationwide I believe (as to resources). I'm disabled (physically) & he turned my life upside down so badly, I'm struggling right now in basic survival myself. Never have I had so much to deal with (because of what he did to me/my life).
It's one thing to deal with one or two losses but the magnitude of it all is hard to rise above.

I loved ex h Psychopath. BUT, he destroyed so much of my stability as to before.

Starry, I do give benefit of doubt perhaps in beginning but I am not an enabler (I know you aren't saying I am).. I've lived alone many yrs & had to care for myself & expect that others do the same .. we are interconnected in this world but it seems ex h Psychopath goes about to disconnect. He isn't able to connect with others ongoing/loving, & goes about with a negative energy. It is very sad how it plays out. At my best I see it this way. There are plenty of days I struggle to forgive. It's not about the goal that they will change (because that doesn't happen it seems).. but continued self growth/protection & love. Because they do not love /live in the love that normal healthy people do.. doesn't mean I can't love & not saying this To anyone but to myself. I Have to stay in that part in my head/heart/soul.

I do think a day will come of Judgement, God/ our Maker & that each person will face HIM & have to account for their actions. Of course God Knows our hearts/minds/souls. But doing whatever & causing chaos without any care for the other person is not ok.
As I say it helps me to write here, I feel I can put my pain in writing & let go. It helps a lot.

Something too.. I think people desire affirmation, that others SEE THEM & acknowledge who they are, who God Made them to be. People crave this I believe.. to be a part of, somehow/ in ways that is meaningful to them ideally & stability, with loving relationships (family/friends) as part of life. Of course this is ideal but I think it's how people operate.

When I was with ex h Psychopath, it's like he is always in search of this, but when he finds it, he rejects it. It's a negative energy pull almost. I felt he did want to be different, but his ability to do this would come in ways of, the hunt. Seeing what he wanted/ who he wanted to be with/or like, then going after this. Continually. Each time not being satisfied, the capture was not satisfying. There is an emptiness within that I DO believe he so craves to fill. I think he is so thirsty for love, so hungry for love of self/ others, that he cannot stop. It's a manic state of being/ forever wanting. He takes in order to recieve but there is nothing to give (ongoing/stable).. he is that starved. I see him this way knowing him over the course of a number of years & married to him. I know not each person ( Psychopath ) is the same.. but the person I knew this is what I saw. When he was done with me, he tossed me aside.. he will go through life like this (I believe), as he does.

Hi, just wanted to interject a couple of comments. Psychopaths are incapable of any sort of love but for themselves. Imo, if it seemed like they loved their kids it is only an illusion and part of an act. I think the "appearance" of love is what they want a person to think. But to love means you don't abuse and abandon.

Di

excerpt from:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/55051

Psychopathy, "is characterized by diagnostic features such as superficial charm, high intelligence, poor judgment and failure to learn from experience, pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, lack of remorse or shame, impulsivity, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, manipulative behavior, poor self-control, promiscuous sexual behavior, juvenile delinquency, and criminal versatility among others (Cleckley, 1982; Hare et al., 1990). As a consequence of these criteria the psychopath has the image of a cold, heartless, inhuman being. But do all psychopaths show a complete lack of normal emotional capacities and empathy? Like healthy people, many psychopaths love their parents, spouse, children and pets in their own way, but have difficulty loving and trusting the rest of the world. Furthermore, psychopaths do suffer emotionally as a consequence of separation, divorce, death of a beloved person or dissatisfaction with their own deviant behavior (Martens, 1997).
Sources of Sadness -Psychopaths can suffer emotional pain for a variety of reasons. Like anyone else, psychopaths have a deep wish to be loved and cared for. This desire remains frequently unfulfilled, however, as it is obviously not easy for another person to get close to someone with such repellent personality characteristics. Psychopaths are at least periodically aware of the effects of their behavior on others and can be genuinely saddened by their inability to control it. The lives of most psychopaths are devoid of a stable social network or warm, close bonds."



----
I get where people are coming from here, I spend oftentimes many hrs of the day rehashing my anger because it has so affected my life what he did to me I am FAR FROM healed & struggling.
The times I often am able to let go of, are here when I write; at times when I pray.
I DO believe they will pay a price for what they are doing.
The above does describe what I saw in ex h Psychopath, as to love & how I saw his actions in regards.
I'm not making excuses for him, just that I do believe he does love, his children, siblings & that he loves but is not capable of sustaining the love ongoing (stable) & it does always lead back to himself, his needs (it's like an arrested development/ lack of conscious), is how I experienced him .. not to mention how he train wrecked my life. In re love, my view is as is stated above (from what I saw in ex h Psychopath).

Have been thinking, what about moving this to another thread? I'm conscious of going off topic a bit and maybe confusing nomorenofear?

I'd also like to point out that Martens (the author of the article, which I can't read, as you have to be a member to gain access) is a self-confessed psychopath himself.

He also says: 'I am writing a book on psychopaths's reflections on their personality features, condition and characteristics. The intention of this book is to form a counterbalance against the existing superficial, incorrect and incomplete theories of and viewpoints on psychopathy and sociopathy.'

Hi, I have been thinking that love to a Psychopath even for themselves has to be a different kind of "love" coming from the mind of evil than the "normal" population who do have a conscience.

I would be glad to move this interesting conversation, starry, just let me know the new title and I'll move the associated posts.

Di

Dianne, do you agree that they are biologically different so in part THAT is what is going on? That they are not capable of having the same emotions as a normal healthy person. Not making excuses but to maybe believe that they are not all evil in total/ but as God Sees & to love, at all times, that there is a reason for, & perhaps they are not all purity of evil.

I guess I am becoming concerned posting at this forum that if one is not able to discuss Psychopaths in a bit of a balanced nature as well, from a mental health standpoint, not that they are, fixable, as I do not believe that is so, but in condeming them all .. But being able to talk about what happened, yes the evil of it all, but also that if they are not created the same, biologically, then to lump sum them all / what is the point then of posting but Only to vent? I think what he did to me was beyond cruel & there are many days I thnk he is evil.. but in order to heal I have to see things in perspective & part of the reality of this IS that they are defective/ their brains do not work like other non Psychopaths work. I guess to me it's about the facts of this also. From a loving point of view..
& I DO believe he loves, his kids, his family, I believe he loved me..
he loves, but it's like he is broken/ it's a cog /breakdown where he is not motivated the same/ he does not function as a non Psychopath functions.
I think to break it down to love/not love just isn't making any sense to me. If they have a mental defect it's more about that than to lump it into a, do they or don't they love / of which I think is totally situation specific.

Dianne,

I'm glad starry suggested separating these posts for nomorenofear.

How about Characteristics of a Psychopath - Controversial research.

For me it is their total lack of empathy, compassion, remorse, etc that makes them a Psychopath. The behaviors can vary dramatically depending on their lifestyles growing up and other biological characteristics they possess. With these traits there is no possibility of love. They respond to personal interactions as the narcissist does. That's actually where I first ended up on this journey of understanding. The Psychopath thrives on getting what that Vaknin guy calls narcissistic supply. This I firmly believe.

This guy who claims they love is crazy in my eyes.

Oh, and thank you starry. Where did you find that information on that guy Marten (sp) ?

I think the important thing here is to ensure that all victims who come to this forum protect themselves by keeping their "empathy" and "good will" some place that the Psychopath in their life can't get to.

If you're truly dealing with a psychopath then, by definition, they are not capable of love. We all want them to if they are our parents but the quicker you get away from them and find somone who does love you and who you can have a healthy relationship with the better.

I hope nomorenofear is OK.

nomorenofear, I'm sorry your thread got sidetracked.

There's a separate thread for what we have been discussing now (in the 'Healing' section). We can get back to talking about your concerns directly.

I hope you are able to post again and let us know what you are thinking.

I remember my Psychopath saying: "I did love you IN MY WAY", whats that supposed to mean, I dont know.
The thing is we will never be able to tell. What difference does it make if they love or "love in their way" or whatever else? My Psychopath was pure evil, and the times he demonstrated that evil, with that grin on his face, I have no doubt that he actually thrives on others' pain. I dont care where that comes from either, hell, searching that is exactly what got me into this relationship - the hypothesis that there's sth there, that makes him so. So what? They cannot change, and they never will. It doesnt matter what they feel or if they feel at all (which I dont see at all).

True love, as I understand it, is a feeling of putting someone else on the first place. When you care for someone else more than you do for yourself, thats love. It goes in 3 ways - parent's love for us, our love for our partners, and our love for our children. Three different levels.
- our parents are the "givers" for us - we love them but they are the ones to take care of us, they definitely give more than we do in this "relationship"
- our partners are who we give to but we also need to receive, for it to work. If there's balance we have a happy relationship
- third is our love for our children, where we become the "givers", and we take care of the kids. This is the strongest one, and anyone who had a child will back me up on that, right? (I dont and I dont want kids but I can imagine how it must feel); here we become the givers, and we give without receiving back, unconditionally.

None of this can work with Psychopath. I always had this view on my relationship with Pwith me being his "mommy", and thats what it truly is, and thats what they seek - someone who takes care of them. There's no balance, the relationship cannot work.
Tell me if you had similar observations.

Newbird,
I had exactly the same experience. I agree that searching is what got me into the relationship. They are confounding creatures, these psychopaths, which makes them rather intriguing. We want to know what they think, who they are. They will say lots of words that sound good, but don't actually make sense. When you find out what they really meant or what they really are thinking, it is too late. You are already in too deep. My Psychopath asked me, "What is love?", after years of saying it to me. I was also told I shouldn't have "put all my eggs in one basket." SERIOUSLY!

I agree there is no balance. When you go through a hard time, when you need to talk about your problems or get support, they will be annoyed. I was told I should've "talked to a wall" when I was going through a stressful situation and tried to talk it out with Psychopath. They love for you to listen, to feel sorry for them. They feed off of it. If you have a problem, they get annoyed.

Psychopath definitely wanted me to be a "mommy". You can easily get sucked into that role, since they do seem so strangely lost and helpless. Even after they so clearly, ruthlessly, intentionally hurt you, you still somehow think that maybe if you had just done a little bit more, maybe they wouldn't have done all those things to you. That is what they want you to believe, that it is your fault. They get all self-righteous and indignant. That is one of the most bizarre things is how they can go so quickly from playing lost and helpless child to playing the role of know-it-all authoritarian disciplinarian who will teach you the error of your ways!

Exactly!!

"I was also told I shouldn't have "put all my eggs in one basket." SERIOUSLY!"
Me too! That's how they see love I guess! It's terrifying.
All the blame and guilt - I felt it too. It is their most powerful weapon.