Dear Akeso,
I do feel better getting things out but find, I'm sure like others, that it seems more unreal reading it (in print?). I've only thought about it for most of my life. There is some theraputic value to writing feelings down. This is new to me and it is helping a lot although it is still painful in some ways to rehash old crap.

As for yourself, Akeso, there is no loss being cut off from your husband's family if his mother is sexually abusive. They did you a favour from what I understand from some of your posts.
I have cut myself off from my family for almost half of my 49 years.

The memories about my childhood are significantly blocked. I remember safe things like who my childhood school friends were, visiting some trusted relatives etc but a good majority of memories are blocked. I cannot remember what half of our house that I lived in as a child looked like. We moved often. When I try to imagine being in the houses, part of the house is blank, no matter how hard I try to visiualize it. It makes no sense to remember some parts very clearly and not a shred of rememberance for others.

My father though not medically diagnosed, completely fits the criteria of a psycopath (refer to some of my other posts). He was a workaholic. He worked all day, came home, rested an hour then went to a 2nd job in the evening. I was close to him growing up. I'd say that I was closest out of my siblings, as I was always with him when he practiced for his band (sang, played guitar). I sat for hours listening to him play and sang along. Because I was curious, I always went to find him in the yard or where ever he was keeping busy and either helped or watched him work. You could say I was 'daddy's girl'. At one point, I became 'mommy's girl' and I didn't want to go to school. I made excuses, saying my feet hurt etc. and wanted to stay home with my mom. After physical check ups, multiple blood tests, nothing showed up. I was then taken to a psychiatrist from around ages 7-9. The most that I understood out of these visits was that I was sensitive (a comment that would follow me the rest of my life. My sister resented and mocked me for being the 'sensitive' one). After my first car accident at 21 yo, I didn't know where else to go for the frustration and anger so I returned to the same psychiatrist. The very FIRST comment he said to me when I sat down in the chair was something that I said to him as a child. I told him that I didn't want to become a woman. He told me that comment always bothered him. I don't recall talking to him about it further.

I liked my dad until he retired from his evening job and was suddenly around all of the time. I was 12 at the time when he took over the reigns of discipline. He was unreasonably strict and said really hurtful things. In families where abuse is present, we don't know any different. In the 70s abuse wasn't talked about like it is now. I accepted my families odd behaviour as 'normal' although I didn't like it.

When I was 18, my bf (husband now) would come to get me on a Saturday afternoon. The outside door was always open and he knocked and then came in. On one particular day, I was late returning from shopping with my mom. He was expecting me to be home and heard a noise in my bedroom. When he got down the hallway and pushed open my door, he found my dad digging through my underwear drawer. When dad realized Jeff was there, he immediately got mad, told him to get outside and I got lectured the next day. Jeff later told me what had happened. I don't remember my response. It's really gross to think about today. I must have been in deep denial to not want to leave at that minute. EW! After a few years of Jeff coming over and knocking before entering the house, suddenly dad had a new set of rules. Jeff was NOT family and he was NEVER to come in the house without ringing the door bell and waiting to be let in. I was also asked who Jeff thought that he was, just walking in like that.

I have been in and out of counselling for most of my life. One morning I was getting ready for work and felt like I had just gotten the flu. I felt so sick. I asked my husband to pray for me. As I laid back, on my bed, it came to me that my dad had done something to me when I was 4. (I won't be specific). I got up, thinking that I was going to throw up. I ran to the bathroom, the nausea passed and I sat on the toilet seat lid and screamed for an hour. The screaming was deep and painful like labour pains, and I couldn't stop it. The feelings coming up felt like terror. My husband was with me and he took me to a good friends house later to talk and pray with her. Since that time and more counselling, I have seen snippets of what I believe was abuse at the hands of my father but I discontinued counselling. It was too painful. They say that emotions never age. I believe that. I really believe that as a young child, this is exactly what I felt.

I more than anyone, play back mental images, forward, backwards, sideways, upside down. I challenge and question myself, trying to find holes in my story. Though I can't recall his exact words, I believe my dad told me that if I ever told my mom what he was doing, that she would not love me anymore. To this day, I have never confronted her about the abuse although I believe she knows what happened. I never confronted dad. I am still afraid at almost 50, to tell her because I am afraid of losing her. That feeling has to come from somewhere.

I may not have explained this part right. My dad threatened my mom that if either my sister or I got pregnant before we were married, that he would leave her. This was just another of his control tactics. Mom was married to this man for 50 years til he died. She was completely devoted to him. I joke that I wish I had gotten pregnant.. then he would have left sooner. Not nice, but...

Im sorry, Akeso, I have read some of your posts and I believe that your husband is molesting your daughter. I am no expert. My qualification is actually having lived through it and not just from reading text books. I have memories of odd behaviours that I did as a child that were way too adult for me to have learned on my own (again, 1960s-no internet, not much in way of available material for kids to get their hands on and learn). There are other things that confirm my suspicions.

Both of my daughters have waist length hair. They always have even into adulthood. We kept them away from my parents because he was so caustic and more importantly to protect them from molestation. He hadn't seen them in a few years and randomly asked "Do our granddaughters still have long hair? Don't you know that's dangerous?". I was like... wt*, I thought he'd gone off the deep end until my husband reminded me of how my mom always talked me into getting my hair cut short. Jeff liked long hair and I always let mom talk me into cutting mine above the shoulder. She also kept hers short even though she would always remark that dad liked long hair. Her reasoning was always that her hair fell out when it got too long or it was easier to look after when it was short. I can only guess that it was her way of protecting me. I was less of a "young girl" with short boyish hair. I have also come to the realization recently that while dad never allowed mom or us kids to sit around much as teens at home, I now believe that by doing so, he wanted me to stay very thin. He hated 'fat' people. I was flat chested so I maintained an adolescent figure. He also had magazines under his mattress that I saw when I helped mom flip their mattress during spring cleaning. She explained that the magazine's were 'borrowed' from men at work. One was full of girls dressed as teens. Our garage walls were covered with pictures of local young girls in swimsuits taken from our newspaper, as was a shed in the backyard that no one else went into except dad. When we drove somewhere as a family, dad would see a long haired teen or young adult waiting to cross the street. He would say to mom "there's a little cutie". Mom would be annoyed and make a sarcastic remark. She often complained that she would like to see a love story when they agreed to go see a movie but would very often have to see dirty movies that he wanted to watch. I am told that in the early 70s, up until his death, he was still watching porn.

As for your other posts, overnight touching is not unheard of. If your daughter goes for a nap, etc, she will be asleep and not remember. For myself as a teen, that would explainmy not remembering. Dad sometimes came into the room to 'check the window for condensation' during damp or winter weather. Since I would have been expecting that as usual behaviour, I would not have been surprized if he happened to be in my room when my sleep was interrupted. When you are half asleep, you don't think clearly. Touching someone while they are asleep, is still considered abuse. It just takes one touch, one time to affect a life. I saw an Oprah Winfrey show that had pedos on it and one admitted to doing just that with his step-daughter on a regular basis. His confession validated my own questions about why I can't remember some of my own incidents.

How old is your daughter? Kids rarely lie. The whole changing the shirt to what he wants her to wear (even toothbrush-sorry, to rid her mouth of evidence?) is all very suspicious and would raise very red flags all over the place for me. Changing her clothes allows him an excuse to see her naked. It also allows him an excuse to touch her while he is changing her. Swimming again allows her vulnerability in the shower (or state of undress) after (I don't know her age or whether she is too young to shower alone). Forget the offended act by him. Guilty people protest the loudest. Don't fall for any of his emotional pleas. He knows the game very well.

Overnight. yes, that was probably the most convenient time for my dad. Mom was asleep. When we were little, my siblings and dad would play under the blankets. Mom would encourage us to go wake him up in the morning. He would keep us underneath and tell silly stories while he blew his bad breath on us, then he would laugh hysterically. Sounds innocent? I'm told by my grandmother, that she 'saw hands going underneath the covers" of her own children; my dad and his siblings. His dad did it to him. He already had that idea in his head.

I don't know whether anyone believes me. My husband and daughters do. The rest don't matter. Give your daughter the very best gift that you will ever give her and fight tooth and nail to get that creep out of her life. At the very least--- SUPERVISED VISITS!!!

As for mothers passing down psycopathy to their sons--my families psycopathic behaviour was passed from my grandfather who also molested children, to my dad who molested children, to my sister-no idea about her molesting. I don't even want to go there mentally.

I have more than likely missed some points but hope this is of some help to you. Everything you say about your daughter raises flags. No, it isn't good to see a pedo around each corner but I wish my mom had been more like you. I'm sorry. I'd rather you think like a pedophile because it will make all of the difference in the world. Keep going and develop a thick skin as far as your husband is concerned. Actors can't act without an audience. Don't give in to his emotional displays. It's all B.S. You and your daughter are in my prayers.

sorry I may have mistakenly understood that your MIL was sexually abusive***

I looked for a previous post by you Akeso to make sure of what I thought that I read earlier. From what you say, it's quite possible that H is building his own world for him and your daughter. My psycho-sister does this with her life and also pissing you off in the process. My dad always moved us away from people after 5 years or less. I moved 5 times in 16 years.

What do you mean "he's enmeshed in covert incest with his mother???" If he's doing anything with his mother you can be damn sure he's going it with your kid. This is a sick man. As far as your comments about your daughters vagina being irritated when she comes home from his visit, why is this even a question for the doctors. They need to take their heads out of their arses and do their jobs. Emergency room visit next time this happens! Don't ever think you are over reacting. He is smart but you are smarter for being one up on him.

I don't know what teaches a person who isn't a psycho to have those tendencies. My niece has learned from my sister how to take without conscience. She used someone to have a baby. Most of the time she doesn't appear to have much conscious about what she does or who she hurts.

It's ABSOLUTELY incorrect to keep a dad around whether he's a good dad or not. NO NO NO NO! You need to stay as the only stable person in your daughter's life. No father at all is better than a piece of _____ father. I could have done without mine.

BeautyforAshes thank you so much for your posts. Amazing isn't it how we can help complete strangers, and immediately. I am so sorry about your childhood trauma and what those people have and still do that still affects your life when you should be just enjoying life. I thank you again for revisiting that past for my benefit. It also makes me sad for my daughter. I have read that this can turn her into an N herself or make her promiscuous so I'm doing a lot of reading of how to keep her attached to me as best I can.
Just to explain a couple of things, covert incest is a term that's used for when a parent uses their child for emotional support against an abusive spouse. My H also used to cast me in the role of his abusive father and I'm not like that at all. I have lost my temper in response to his rages and hurtful accusations. The worst was telling him I hated him while he held my daughter in his lap, just calmly watching me. A natural reaction is to get the child out of the way, but no. Anyway my daughter just turned 4. The thing about the toothpaste turns my stomach and also about him protesting the loudest about what he would do to a pedophile. But I can't go in accusing with guns blazing (I did that already - just to him - when I found his porn file) without absolute proof, otherwise I risk losing permanently. He has a big reputation to protect and I cannot accuse him without proof. I would be seen as the jealous and vindictive (and crazy) ex. Which I'm sure is how he's already depicting me. Instead I have tried to be very accommodating and friendly.
I feel I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've already lost my daughter's trust because since she told (it was during a visit, not overnight. He was "sleeping" she said, while touching her). I've had to send her back to him for unsupervised visits because I have no reason I can explain to him not to, while all the while trying to make her believe that she can trust me. Now she knows she can't, and is being very aggressive to me now. Meanwhile she keeps asking to see him. He must be being ever so kind, giving her things, carrying her around on his shoulders (while wearing a dress...) Again, nothing really bad, just off-putting enough. As for the red vagina, it may also be because of wearing tight trousers in hot weather so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. It hasn't just been after he's seen her. Now he is being on his best behavior (only because it's in his interest), so I don't think I'm going to get proof for awhile - but again, imagine putting your innocent daughter in harm's way - to get the proof I need to get him out of our life. So there are a couple other things I am trying.
Thank you for your prayers, and your posts. They also sort of show that there's no real way I can prove anything at least by seeing any off-behavior - because he's moved out. He used to come home late, stay up a bit and then sleep on the couch, so who knows what he was doing. I asked my daughter if he ever came in her room and she said no, but she might not remember or could be lying. When I've asked her things in front of him, she looks at him almost to see if it's okay to answer. All very disturbing, very confusing (which is what they love) and it has to be said, very evil. Despite loving the man, (if all this is not true of course), since last night I conjure an image of his face engulfed in flames. Yes I'm religious...

I know it must sound awful that I love him, but I've been praying for small miracles, and also of course, that the worst scenario is not true.

Sorry, I got carried away lol. I absolutely see red when it comes to this. I don't know why I watch Law & Order and other shows that depict what I hate most. Vindication, I guess. We always want to see the bad guy get his, even as Christians.

You're welcome. I get to vent, I suppose, by writing this so it's for me as well as anyone else who can use my experiences to help themselves or others in some way.
I know that I have the choice to completely give this all up. I find it hard when it is all that I've ever known. There is a strange comfort in what you are used to, if that makes any sense, but I am not happy and pray to be completely healed of all of this crap.

What is an N? Narcissist? Unfortunately, I was promiscuous as a teen. I was looking for love that a real father should have given. Instead I felt like I was only good for one thing. I still use way to much soap and feel dirty. At 15, I wanted to be loved so badly that I let a boy use me sexually for about 7 months. Healing from that experience took 30 years when a card from that person was delivered to me. It was then, after his apology for everything that he had done, that I could completely let go and have closure. The good news is that I met the love of my life just before I turned 17. He stayed by me in all things, loved and supported me and has been with me since. Not every story turns out awful.

When I was a kid, my mother used to complain that her nerves were bad. She took 3 Vivol (Valium) a day for 10 years. We always had to accomodate her 'bad nerves' by complying, not getting on her nerves, not talking about things that were a problem ie: my dad's behavior. She would tell us not to talk about this or that infront of him, 'don't tell dad, I don't want to hear about it" etc. I don't know if that's the same thing as you are describing but sometimes as a child it seemed the roles were reversed and we had to support her emotionally while he continued to be abusive. By the age of 18, I was sent for stomach tests, barrium enemas, and I was on Fiorinal, a sedative/barbituate, for my nerves. I was also only having a bowel movement once a week. I know for some people that could be normal but I was always severely constipated most of childhood/teen years while living with that family. As an adult, sometimes I have gotten aggitated when I've had to look after my husband or daughters when they are sick. I don't know why and I feel terrible about it. I think it may have something to do with her "delicate" emotional state that always had to be nurtured by her children instead of her just getting up the nerve to tell dad to piss off. I feel like I've been a mom for most of my life.

My dad also threw himself into fits or rages. He was like a drill sargeant, demanding that we clean this or do that. Hurtful was his middle name. Mom always said "oh, he didn't mean it that way" "he doesn't think before he talks", "you know how dad is". He always seemed to want to 'protect us'. When I started dating, he was very mean to my boyfriends. The ones when I was younger, not as much but my husband..(before marriage). wow... he went after him like crazy and even more so after we became engaged. I don't think protection is the same to a psycopath, as we understand it. To my dad, my husband represented him losing control of me and his ability to abuse would soon be gone when I moved away. His twisted mind probably thought that he was protecting me from outsiders like my boyfriend.

My mom as a widow, had a FaceBook page that she "liked". It said that all pedophiles should be hanged. Harsh. My dad was one. Who was she protesting loudest about? Them or my dad? It didn't make sense and just made me angry that she could deny her own husband doing it to his own child but then have something like that on her page for all to see. Screaming loud means nothing. It's all a show.

Tight trousers? I have raised 2 girls and neither ever had red vaginas because of tight trousers. Get her looser trousers? I'm sorry about the toothpaste comment. I don't even know this man and I want to strangle him..

Make notes, get as much proof as you can. Backing off a bit may help if your daughter is becoming aggressive.

See if you can role play with her so she doesn't suspect what you're doing. Does she play with dolls? Maybe you can be the daughter... she can be the mommy (don't be obvious) and so on and hopefully something may slip out that way. If she is in couselling, they should be able to get her to open up somehow. Just remembering myself at that age or just older, I mustn't have told the psychiatrist much either. Even before people talked about it, he would have surely caught on. Saying that I didn't want to become a woman should have rang bells. You have so many more resources available now. Someone will gain her trust. I know all about the looking at her dad thing. We were taken to relatives houses etc and we sat like dolls until mom nodded for us to be able to go play with our cousins. If we were asked if we wanted a treat, we looked at my mom. Her sisters didnt always have extra money for treats so she always knew when they could afford to offer it or not. If she nodded approval, we took it. If she nodded no, we didnt. Everything was kept very strict in that sense. We knew there were lines that we did not cross without creating trouble. Your daughter has been warned by her father what not to answer or how to answer. She is looking to him because she unsure of what to say that won't get him pissed. What a friggen (expletive).


I'm very sorry, I would be going crazy if I were you. Try to play it cool and continue on collecting bits of evidence.


"I know it must sound awful that I love him, but I've been praying for small miracles, and also of course, that the worst scenario is not true."

Loving someone doesn't mean agreeing with their behaviour. You loved him before you knew all of this. That doesn't change how you feel. It just makes it harder to deal with conflicting thoughts. I wish that the worst scenario wasn't true too but if what you are telling us is true and I believe that it is... don't allow yourself to go into denial. Pray Pray Pray. God is bigger than all of this and will bring justice. ~BFA

Hi and many thanks for your replies and taking the time to look up my posts. I really just feel gutted, especially at the moment, and also just wish I knew for sure. I wonder if I'll ever know. The only people who know are him and my daughter, who adores him and is a happy kid. She isn't withdrawn or anything. But she can be very aggressive with me, to the point where I wonder if she has the gene. All very scary. I'm just reading about the behavior of 4 year olds and another book called "hold on to your kids". The other book I read discussed covert incest, so I'm sure this was the case with my husband and his mother, and I'm wanting to make sure that due to my own fragile state these months, I'm not putting too much of (and misplaced) emotional burden on my dear daughter, who is also very wise for her age.
I think I'd be able to find out about misconduct if I asked her myself, but experts (including internet), child psych and lawyer have all advised me not to. This is because it could put her in danger the next time she sees him and may tell him who knows. And they don't want her tipping him off. I'm just waiting to get some appts now and hopefully get some answers. Meanwhile I feel very frustrated, and also dealing with her related mistrust. It's weakening the bond between us, which again, is a great "point" for the competitive psychopath and/or narcissist (yes N is for narcissist). He has otherwise said, frequently, what a great mother I am. I wonder why he keeps saying it. Because I finally got him to leave so as not to poison the atmosphere any longer? So she wouldn't see the abuse and think it was normal? Cus I'm trying to protect her from him? Dunno. But I did get her hair cut super short too...
Re her redness, when she gets it, it's all around her privates, like an eliptical ring from her outer labia around her bottom. We live in a very hot climate so wondering if its chaffing or something but I've been putting her in dresses lately to see if that helps. But as I said, he knows what I suspect so I don't think he'd try anything, at least for awhile. They say they always do it again, so if that's the case then it's only a matter of time. I think at the moment he's just making a thick bond with her and doing some "programming" as Di also mentioned. But gee this is pretty awful waiting meanwhile. Pastor (who I didn't tell about the child abuse but did tell about the abuse to me) said to just keep the dialogue open. So that's what I've been doing. Not possible to go no contact with a child involved.
You can count your blessings that you met the man of your life so young and he still loves and stands by you. What a rarity! At least in my experience! (Isn't that a sad comment...) Kiss that man :-)

Sounds like you are doing all that you can. Keep going. Yes. I realize that I am very blessed to have met someone like my husband so young in life and to still be with him. Thanks for your kind words and explanation of things. I wish you all the best and hope that you keep us posted. :)~BfA

*YOU and your daughter all of the best-- not that crap headed man lol

I've been going to the healthfood store & buying natural salts (the edible types/ not bath salts but that's not bad idea either).. I'm going into total health food/cleanse mode to get my energy & vitality back. This has taken a toll on me in such a way that I feel I have to go all out to rise above the stress. It's been a week since I started this & I'm feeling better already.

Dianne, I think of you often & lately in re the surgery you were going to have done & pray you are doing better. I too remember what you said about medications & how you are an advocate against them (the anti d's etc).. I have stocked my supplies of fish oil/ flax seed oil/ vit d/calcium, etc.. I feel I am at war against the stress & will win this battle (or at least make every attempt to).

I think Psychopaths often don't know how to care for themselves & tend to drinking/ smoking pot/ any way to kill the pain without dealing with life head on..
I realize there are many ways to heal in life but I would rather do so naturally as possible.
I'm having fun stocking my shelves with healthy remedies. I watch Dr. Oz & they were talking about olives that help in healing.. it's fun to be healthy.
I pray you are doing well (Dianne) post your operation & happy holidays &>all.