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#12462 - 12/20/11 07:23 AM Empathy, compassion and forgiveness.
starry Offline
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Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thought I would start a new topic on these, seeing as they seem pretty relevant on the forum at the moment.

Looking forward to a great discussion on these areas smile


Edited by starry (12/20/11 09:08 AM)

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#12463 - 12/20/11 10:57 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
1Healing Offline
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Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 87
In re forgiveness/compassion/empathy, & also the topic of which was mentioned of love/loving & the Psychopaths: I stand by my beliefs as to my experience with ex h Psychopath (that he does love, his kids/ siblings, etc., when he loves, but he blocks it as well & can turn that love off & on & does (very controlling) which causes him havoc & Everyone else around him that is close, the same.)

From my experience in this I believe that there are likely variations in the Psychopaths, just as any mental illness/defect each person is unique. I agree that there seems to be a souless quality in some, many likely, but I do not think that is nescessarily the case in all (of the Psychopaths).

IF this is also in part a brain disorder, nature/nurture thing .. this is where I feel I HAVE TO go with it in my head as to forgiveness/empathy in regards to my own healing. & I will even forego the empathy part in this because of the nature of Psychopaths.. When in my life & I am no youngster, I encounter others of whom I do not get along with for whatever reason or clash with, I have to separate myself from them, in a psychological sense.
Of course I was married to this person so it was not like I wanted a divorce or would have frankly left him.. BUT under the circumstances ..
going to a place of the larger picture. OK what if, ie, parent is a pyschopath .. someone's parent & they go through life abused, rejected, there is no bonding of formidable, healthy, nature esp when living in the home... & I would go to the fact of WHY was this psychopath person/parent created? IF it is to bring about another life & THAT is the reason, then there IS a reason they lived. & I thnk it is possible as is in other cases, that their existance is one stacked with evil in their choices/ but too that maybe not ALL is such, if it is also a brain defect ( psychopathy ) then I am going to guess/believe that there are Some of these people who are in ways similar to a person who is mentally reatarded, they would not be expected to function the same as a person who is not.

As I have stated, I spend a LOT of time in disgust at what he did to me, how he treated me, kept leaving, left me in debt & did not pay on his part, the debt was created in large part due to the upheavals & did NOT need to happen. When I post these things here & can discuss the nature of psychopathy THEN I can release my anger, that & in prayer/seeing the larger picture of things. It does not excuse his behavior, I don't believe people can skate through life & do whatever they like in damage. But God Is The Judge & will deal with him (them) in due time.

re healing..In my own family (& with others) I have to give space, boundaries of which are real, that each can have their reality. It doesn't excuse Psychopaths at all, but meaning, life in general. As an adult I can choose how to do things, who to be involved with.

My own life is still very difficult because of what he did to me & that will not change soon. I guess what I am saying is that I have to keep loving. The bible says, "love at all times," & it doesn't say to pick & choose whom I love. I will admit I have never been as challenged in this, in hindsight of my experience with Psychopath. I don't think I have, before had to work to not hate someone & in this case it has been something I've struggled with some days. The fact they are often biologically different, is no excuse to go about turning people's lives upside down, but not in his prescence now I try to rise above. I don't feel I am needing to change my stance / I do not agree that all Psychopaths do not love/ I agree with what Martens says as to some Psychopaths, that they love, in their own way, but also with the rest of it, that their narcissistic nature & inability to FEEL (as a non Psychopath feels) etc causes MUCH damage & to many. Created by God, Differently, then there is likely a reason they are alive & removing from the chaos & then defining why/the reason, if only that they brought about another life, etc. I think that is imperative in healing. That is not excusing their behavior /actions, but it IS, "loving at all times," of which The Word asks that I do.
smile
It's how I have to function/ regardless of who I am with & in my life..
Some days I am seething angry at what he did to me.

When I am upset with a person & believe they are not responding or treating me as I desire .. I pull back & assess my expectations. If they are not able to give me what I need/desire then I try to negotiate or no longer seek the need I have from that person (of course that doesn't work/ negotiation w/Psychopaths, I realize this, but I'm not a Psychopath so it's what I seek when/if possible! smile ). Having a healthy support, system, is important.. not leaning too heavily into one person. Marriage is different/ order in a home is vital for health .. but as an adult & the ability to choose those I am close to helps in the balance of my life.

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#12469 - 12/20/11 04:25 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: 1Healing]
starry Offline
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Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
I'm really interested in what you wrote. I'm going to have to think about it over the course of a couple of days, make sure I process everything that you said as well as I can.

Something jumped out at me straight away though. I went for many, many years (most of my life) thinking that my dad didn't really understand what he had done to me, that he had somehow got his wires crossed, that he was somehow not quite right in his mind and so things had got mixed up, that he wasn't really to blame.

I remember one of my counsellors asking my why I kept making excuses for him. And my answer was that I didn't really think he understood what he was doing, that his brain was defective, that he had a mental illness and wasn't really compos mentis.

And then something happened to make me understand that he knew perfectly well where the dividing line between right and wrong was. And that he was deliberately choosing to cross the line to the other side. Deliberately, and repeatedly choosing to cross the line.

I can tell you exactly where I was when I had that realisation, even though it was a good few years ago now. It was like a revelation. I swear, everything fell into place after that. I suddenly felt completely free of all the guilt and the burden of it all.

And now I think of it all very differently. My former train of thought was as a result of the brainwashing he did to me. Passing the blame and the responsibility, from himself to his 'lifestyle', his 'offbeat personality', to all the drugs he had taken and how they had affected his mind. It wasn't him, he was just confused.

But he knew all along what he was doing. And he chose that path, knowing that it would cause me suffering. Knowing and being excited by my suffering and confusion. Toying with my suffering and confusion, keeping me forever suspended in suffering and dangling in confusion.

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#12473 - 12/21/11 04:12 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
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Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
starry, Ive been in the same place. All the blame, nit wanting to accept that he did this on purpose, looking for excuses even when I had it there on a plate, that he is a psycho and knows well what he is doing.

When he pushed me to the limits, my mind would block it, I had no control, Id believe anything then just to make him stop. Its terrifying what he did to me, and its terrifying that I only can see it now.

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#12475 - 12/22/11 01:09 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
blueheron Offline
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Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 84
Not sure how to be coherent on this one.

Over many years, I have spent a lot of time helping other people learn about forgiveness. I had a whole big spiel about it, written some articles, and have spoken in front of groups, talking about what forgiveness is and isn't, why and how to forgive, etc. Once a person understands that forgiveness is not a feeling, it is an act of will, that makes it a little easier. Forgiving is for our benefit, not for the transgressor's. However, it certainly does not give the transgressor permission to keep doing what they're doing -- that's what I was always afraid of before I learned better. There's a bit more to it that I won't yammer on about now.

It is much easier to forgive someone who may eventually see what they have done, or perhaps did the best they could with what they had at the time but it was still damaging. But even with all I understand about forgiveness, I find it hard to set aside the transgressions of someone who knows good and well what they are doing to you and doing it with gusto. And cannot see why you fuss about it. I find it awfully hard not to hold that against them, and to want a violent revenge. I haven't ever been a violent or physical person, but right now there is at least one person on this planet I would like to beat like a drum. Until there's nothing left of them. I guess I'm only human, huh.

At this point when I was talking with someone who needed to forgive, I tried nudging them to consider handing over their transgressor to God. Great and Almighty God knows far better than we do what needs to happen to that person. Often I have been able help someone to hand a person over to God and as soon as they do, retribution is swift because they finally took their hands off.

Well. Still struggling with this one.

blue heron

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#12476 - 12/22/11 12:37 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: blueheron]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi, this subject has been on my mind for a long time. I will write the couple in the next 2 days. I have one on my hate list, don't want to crowd that list so need to deal with letting this last one go. Being in the present moment when my mind wanders there is about all I have been doing and now I need to release this hatred, it doesn't feel good.

I won't be around but to check in for new registrations so if anyone in the community needs me to respond to any issues, please click the notify button.

Auto immune system problems and getting ones head bashed in seem to go hand in hand so I need to release this last bit of toxic feelings I have.

I developed shingles on my face, never knew the level of pain involved.

Anyways this isn't about me and I apologize for getting off topic.

I'll post my issue with what to do and letting go, it will only keep my physical being in disorder even having one person on my hate list.

Di

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#12553 - 01/20/12 11:10 AM Absolutely [Re: starry]
F Wright Offline
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 13
Forgiveness is critical. For healing to occur, we must forgive. If we don't forgive and move on we're allowing the psycopath to occupy space in our heads. Rent-free I may add. They don't deserve that.

This doesn't necessarily mean we should forget. Escaping the clutches of a psycopath is a hard life lesson learned. Use that knowlege when pursuing relationships in the future. smile
_________________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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#12555 - 01/20/12 12:59 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: F Wright]
starry Offline
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Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Now, here's an interesting question: who are we forgiving here?


I would forgive someone who had hurt me, and who came to me saying they were sorry for what they had done. I wouldn't have a problem with that, however badly they had hurt me.

But the psychopath, well, they don't think they've done anything wrong. In fact, they're the ones who feel wronged. There's no guilt or remorse for the hurt or damage they've caused. Quite the opposite, in fact.

So I made a decision a long time ago, not to forgive my dad, for as long as he didn't come to ask for forgiveness from me (and mean it. Which will be never).

It has been tremendously empowering for me to refuse to forgive to my dad. He took great delight in destroying my boundaries (physical as well as mental and emotional), so I have taken strength in putting a boundary into place. It's my boundary which I have put into place. My boundary is on my terms.

There's so much pressure in our society to forgive, 'let go' and 'move on' that it's difficult sometimes to say 'stop, I want to stay in this place for a while and examine how I feel about this and what is right for me'.

Actually, the person who deserves my forgiveness is myself. I remember the moment when I realised that, and it was like a deep peace and calm had come over me. And I still refuse to forgive my dad.

Perhaps refusing to forgive can ignite anger, 'how dare you have done this to me?'. I'm not one who thinks that anger is necessarily a bad thing here. It was never safe for me to be angry with my dad, however abusive he was to me, because his anger trumped everone else's anger. So I had to suffocate it to survive. It's taken me a lot of work and a long time to reconnect with it. I'm proud of it now, it tells me that there is an injustice happening. And it gives me energy to act and ultimately change the situation. It's a tremendous source of energy.


Edited by starry (01/21/12 07:06 AM)

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#12556 - 01/20/12 05:13 PM Re: Absolutely [Re: starry]
FreeBird Offline
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Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Yeeees!
Starry! You are great!

I will never forgive my Psychopath as well. He deliberately destroyed my whole life, put it all on me, lied about it and at the end of it all tried to persuade me that I was insane.

I have no problem forgiving people. I rarely get upset. I usually see the good side of people.

But he does not deserve that I treat him like other people. He behaves worse than an animal, so that's what he is to me - I wouldn't care much if I saw him dying in the street.

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#12562 - 01/21/12 01:04 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
F Wright Offline
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 13
Well... forgiveness isn't necessarily synonymous with capitulation nor acceptance of deviant behavior. And lack of it certainly shouldn't be confused with revenge. If a refusal to forgive is empowering, all the better for one's personal healing. I'm just wondering if the refusal to forgive is rooted in a need to exact revenge.

Starry, what your father did was just plain despicable and, some might say unforgivable. But he may not give a care whether you forgive him or not. Psycopaths rarely have concern for their victims' feelings anyway. Once can't easily exact revenge on a person who has no concept of the consequences of his actions.

Holding on to anger toward him is beating the proverbial dead horse. He ain't gonna notice nor care. We can choose to be angry and allow past transgressions to control us. Or we can take the high road and give our past tormenter(s) the shoe once and for all. It's our own choice to make. It's never an easy choice but it's always ours.

My father, while not a psycopath was a violent alcoholic. None of us kids really knew him. When he was on his deathbed I flew back Stateside from Greece to be with him before he died. He hardly aknowleged my presence in that hospital room... he spent more time BSing with his cop buddies or watching television than he spent talking to me.

I remember thinking... what the hell. I fly halfway around the world to spend time with this guy before he croaks. Here I am sitting by his bedside and he acts like I'm not even here.

He's been dead for many years; not a one of us kids shed a tear when he passed. I don't believe my sisters and brother have forgiven him to this day. For a long time, I hadn't either. But I had to realize that, until I was willing to let go of the past he would continue to torment me from the grave.

And, unchecked I would continue to use his treatment of me as a crutch or excuse for whatever pitfalls occurred in life.

That had to stop. I had to take responsibility for my life. To do that I had to forgive him, as difficult as it was and push him out of my head.

If it's any help I was married to a psycopath for 16 long years. For good measure, her mother, one of her brothers and a cousin were psychopaths as well. To say my married life was a traumatizing experience would be putting it mildly.

After I finally got free I was angry. I was bitter. Very much so for many years afterward. I wanted revenge. I wanted to see them lose everthing they'd taken me for.

Life has a funny way of exacting revenge. It's called karma. Given time, the evil will reap their reward. Of this one may be sure.

The ex and her new hubby lost it all over time. Her brother lost his business and his livelihood. The arrogance they used to toment me and so many others came back to them.

I had forgiven them long before they fell. Forgiveness was my road to peace of mind. I refuse to allow them to occupy my head rent-free and continue to control my thoughts.

They threw me away like so much rubbish. By forgiving, I have done the same to them. I've thrown them out of my head. Not to say this works for everyone. It worked for me.

Hope it helps.
_________________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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#12575 - 01/23/12 11:46 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: F Wright]
concerned Offline
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Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 47
This is a tough one.

I am willing to forgive. But if I am not asked to forgive, then how can I grant it?

On the other hand, I work hard on loving and not hating (this one is hard).

Loving means that I wish for and would be happy if the person in question truly changed. I don't make it my mission to make it happen or even stick around to see if it happens.

Not hating means that I remove myself from the infuence of that person, and wish them no harm. I become indifferent. I do not try to help the person, nor do I try to hurt the person.

As someone mentioned earlier (sorry I can't scroll up to see), I put it in God's hands.

Also, I have no expectations of this person. None.

Well, this is what I'm working on, can't say I have acheived it.

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#12581 - 01/24/12 01:53 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: concerned]
FreeBird Offline
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Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
I cannot say that.
I stopped caring really when I learned how Psychopaths think. If they don't feel, like we do, then they can't hurt like we do either. Therefore, I don't care if my actions hurt them or not. I see them as objects, just as they see us.

Another thing is my Psychopath still wants the worst for me and he is fighting with all he can. And that I will not take anymore. I might not win this, but I will not back down. It's my way of showing him I am over this, and he has no more control over me.

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#12660 - 02/05/12 05:55 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: 1Healing]
Cwilliams32 Offline
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Registered: 12/28/11
Posts: 6
I really appreciate this post because I have been dealing with the same emotions. Obviously not the same situation or circumstances but I have been learning lately that I have such a deep root of bitterness, and that the only way I can not let it control my life is to pray through it and allow God to change my heart and the socipath I know. I am praying for compassion and empathy, although its so extremely hard because things happen over and over and over, at the end of the day, she is Gods child. I have to learn to leave it in Gods hands, so I appreciate your approach! Hope youre still moving through your process well.

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#12672 - 02/07/12 10:14 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Cwilliams32]
daddysproblem Offline
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Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 99
she's not god's child, she's god's mistake.

unless this is another one of god's tests. to put these psychopaths in our paths and see where we land.

they are the work of the devil. no doubt about it.

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#12674 - 02/07/12 05:10 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Cwilliams32]
blueheron Offline
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Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 84
Very gently, cwilliams -- I think most of us here would tell you, along with all the literature -- your Psychopath is not going to change. They can't. They are what they are, like sharks. All you can change is how you deal with the situation. And most of us have decided to stay away; that's the change we we were able to make. We can deal with our bitterness, and we can forgive, but we cannot change them. Psychopaths / psychopaths / narcissists don't ask God to change them because there's "nothing wrong with them," everyone else is at fault in their minds. I am truly wishing you the very best. I think you are too smart to get caught up in all of that. Please keep reading.

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#12677 - 02/09/12 05:31 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: blueheron]
marinde Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
Hm. Tough one.

I'm still protecting myself and my child from my ex... Forgiving feels really scary, because he abused not only my negative traits, but even more so my positive traits to hurt me and my child: forgiveness, tolerance, empathy, wishing for him to be healed, openness, seeing the positive in people. Now it feels as if forgiving would weaken me somehow, make it more difficult to do everything in my power to fight for my child. Somehow "anger" feels like a step ahead, more powerful than fear and helplessness. So I find it difficult to let go of that.

I think "forgiveness" in the sense of "loving" and "wishing him well" is impossible for me now. Not because of what he did to me. But he wants to hurt my child. Deliberately. And he does everything he can to ruin me, so I can't be a good mum. I have never hated anyone in my life and am normally a gentle person. But - and I'm ashamed to admit it - I do really hope all the worst to him...any misfortune that would free me and my child from him.

I hope someday I am capable of not hating, not being angry. To feel completely indifferent, be healed, let go. Because it feels like a loss to be so unforgiving, harsh and negative. But for now I really don't know how to combine the two...fighting for our safety and forgiveness... and I do admire the people capable of it. I wish I'd know how.

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#12678 - 02/10/12 07:48 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: marinde]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Marinde, I think it's absolutely natural for you to feel anger. It is the first feeling to go through, and I must say the toughest one.
I still have moments of anger. I've learned to control it by remembering why it is so.
Truth be told, there is nothing that can make you feel better but yourself. You need to forgive not him, but yourself. You are the victim, you were abused. Once there is no "him" in your world you can start to heal.
There is nothing we can do about him. There is no way he will ever understand or feel at least a tiny bit of what youre going through. You can only cut him out. And it's hard coz there's been a relationship, but only on your side.

I think of it like this: I cannot change the past, I cannot un-do the damage done. I can only not let him create more mess in my life. I can not let it happen again. I can gain a little more consciousness about the world from it, but it certainly doesn't make me happy. I wish it wasn't so, I do. But I can't change it.

Therefore no forgiveness on my side. It's just impossible.

And don't get me wrong - I am a good person, incredibly good. I'd forgive everyone, I even rarely get angry with people. But to forgive him is impossible for me - I'd have to understand what he did and why he did it, and that's just never gonna happen. So to me- I just don't care. There never was this person I loved. There was only someone I didn't even know. So I don't care, as much as I can.
Forgotten, not forgiven.

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#12707 - 02/21/12 12:58 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: FreeBird]
marinde Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
Hi NewBird,

Thanks for your response. I too wish that he has no impact on me anymore. It's hard because there's our child and the courts. This makes it impossible to forgive, or even forget.

I do hope there will be a moment that I can live my life with my son and forgive myself for letting him enter into our lives/not recognizing him in time. I am busy shifting as much of my focus as possible back to myself, my son, our loved ones, to build the best possible life for us and surround my son with loving and healthy people... instead of focusing on him and what he might do to us. Not giving him a larger part of our life and emotions than I am forced to give him by the courts. Not wasting any more energy and thoughts on him than strictly needed. Still struggling, but doing better already.

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#12768 - 03/06/12 06:51 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: daddysproblem]
Mug42Long Offline
member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 16
Are you sure? They are just a product of their parents and their parents?

Isn't is a miserable, lonely life of a Psychopath?

Is this just a throwback from caveman survival?

Are we the weak ones to allow feeling to cloud us working efficiently?

Does this go around and around your head too?
Are we just trying to over analise and excuse their appauling behaviour?
When you are born into it, it becomes a nightmare


Edited by Mug42Long (03/06/12 06:51 PM)

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#12982 - 03/28/12 01:53 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: blueheron]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
I really would love to look at them with complete sympathy...( they know not what they do )...Like they're possessed...and their suffering is now.....yes this helps me to think this way....My pain takes over my compassion though and it's very hard to completely forgive. I'm glad i'm out alive. This man was very dangerous.

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#12984 - 03/28/12 04:17 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
Smokey Offline
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Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 78
I dare not forgive because I cannot forgive while still remembering how he really was, under the veneer of wonderful.

I can only stay safe by staying away and if I forgive and forget the real, the Psychopath, I will only remember the false wonderful mask and I would want to try to recapture that again.

I need to hold on to knowing as a protective shield and I cannot forgive while doing that.

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#12986 - 03/29/12 09:02 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Smokey]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Smokey, exactly what I'd say.
I guess thats why its so hard, you cannot really forgive.

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#12987 - 03/29/12 11:26 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: FreeBird]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
I totally agree...I wish I could totally forgive because I feel as if giving them even a little bit of my bitterness and anger i'm giving them something..... and I don't EVER want to give them any thing or feeling (good or bad) ever again!Cut my losses and thank God i'm not dead....and I don't have some serious disease.

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#12988 - 03/29/12 06:36 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
Smokey Offline
member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 78
Originally Posted By: becky
I totally agree...I wish I could totally forgive because I feel as if giving them even a little bit of my bitterness and anger i'm giving them something..... and I don't EVER want to give them any thing or feeling (good or bad) ever again!Cut my losses and thank God i'm not dead....and I don't have some serious disease.


I agree with you there Becky. I also give thanks I am not bankrupt and that I still have my family and friends, not to mention that I now have my life back- so long as I never weaken to have him back in it.

All these are great positive ways to get revenge on the Psychopath, by not letting him destroy me, while improving my own welfare.Win/win.


Edited by Smokey (03/29/12 06:39 PM)

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#13002 - 04/04/12 03:37 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Smokey]
marinde Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
I noticed in myself something..still searching for words.

I was really good at "shortcuts" to forgiveness.

He hurt me. I skipped the part where I fully grasped what he did and how that hurt me. I forgave him. He would do the exact same thing again. I was angry for a bit and forgave him. Etcetera.

I guess I skipped some essential parts. There was no real forgiveness, because I didn't truly feel what he did. It was more like an empty decision than truly felt forgiveness.

Now I don't know if I can ever forgive him. First the abuse has to stop. My son and I have to get out safely, healthily. I have to connect again to all my own feelings, heal completely, forgive myself. My loved ones have to heal. All that is priority.

Then, if all that succeeds, forgiveness as a feeling towards him might come. Or not, if the harm is too big to forgive. No shortcuts anymore.

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#13003 - 04/04/12 06:03 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: marinde]
becky Offline
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Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
marinade....that was so well put......thank you.

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#13005 - 04/05/12 03:47 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
marinde, you're so very wise.


Edited by starry (04/05/12 03:48 AM)

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#13028 - 04/10/12 01:07 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
marinde Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
Thanks. blush blush

Not so wise in reality though... it's easy to write it down, but took me 2 years to figure it out.. wink

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#13029 - 04/10/12 02:21 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: marinde]
becky Offline
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Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
I'm having a bad day.....I feel sick to my stomach...I suppose it's good that I do. It reminds me to NEVER go back. I can't wait until I can be rid of any thing that ties me to the monster!......Even if it is a feeling of vomit...I don't even want to give him that. I want to stop thinking about any of it.....I wish I could just wake up and be done with my thoughts about him.......I F** hate that son of a [censored]! But, i'll NEVER tell him.....Never...here's hoping tomorrows the day I become free.....thanks for being there for me.

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#13033 - 04/12/12 04:26 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
I wish people would write more frequently here......I'm finding it so helpful when people respond......it's so hard doing this on my own.....

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#13036 - 04/13/12 01:40 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
becky!
I was gonna write an aswer to your last post, but my life is crazy now, Im moving to another city.

What you're experiencing is typical. It's been a while for me and I still have this quite strong gut feeling, that I cannot really read.
I find it the hardest coz with a Psychopath you get all these feelings, like anxiety and so on, that DO NOT occur in a normal life. I find it strange, coz I cannot understand those feelings. They are just weird. I guess they are your gut feelings, and with Psychopaths you just get a lot of them.

And it is hard coz if you dont understand what youre feeling you cannot do anything about it to make it go away.

I am at this stage right now, where I finally can let it all go. And maybe I am just somehow afraid if it's possible at all.
These web they waive upon us is really really strong.

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#13041 - 04/13/12 11:17 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: FreeBird]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
Thank you newbird for your comments....I guess i'm loving the support here and get disappointed when no one's interacting with me...it feels isolating..I'm looking for some kind of abuse support group in my area..haven't found anything yet... Thank you again for corresponding.

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#13042 - 04/13/12 02:30 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Becky, I am truly sorry that you have not received support. Have had a couple of surgeries this last week.

I think you are on the right path, yes, feeling sick is a good description of how it feels. Even after all these years when the one person who could have helped me passed away, the old sickening feelings returned.

Personally since we are talking about forgiveness, I am not sure it is in the cards for me. I wish that after all these years I would have felt some compassion but I honestly didn't. It is like the crappy gift that keeps on giving.

I am sure with time it will feel better but it is a process and a tough one indeed. I think that in order to view it more objectively sometimes it can take years. I think until we are healed and who knows how long that takes it is for me at least to even consider the act of forgiveness.

I sincerely hope we can help you and will be watching for your posts. I think it is important to have a place for support and hope we can be there for you. Many times community members just need to take a break, don't think it is anything personal.

Please know we are there for you,

Di

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#13043 - 04/13/12 03:00 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Dianne E.]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
Thank you Dianne....I know this is stuff that I need to deal with in my own time..I sure do appreciate your support..I'm hoping for a quick recovery for you....sorry you've been under the weather.

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#13044 - 04/13/12 03:41 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Dianne, I can relate to what you wrote, I dont think Ill ever forgive this.

In times like now it gets really hard. It just made me realize recently how much of this anxiety they cause, how hard it is to go on like this. You would not believe it all, these people are such evil that I just cannot think about it all without this stomachache. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it and I cant. There are times when I feel so confident about it all, when its all so clear, and I feel alright. And then always times like these come back and I dont know where to start again. Its like Im back to the beginning. I need to constantly remind myself what it all really is, and I cannot find a better explanation for all this now as being in a state of rejection the whole evil - its just too much to take.
I still just wish it wasnt what it was and it never happened.

I hate this, i really really hate this, and I dont see me getting any better in handling it. In times like these, nothing makes sense. I feel hopeless. I feel like nothing can help...

So becky, yeah, good news is youre not alone and we totally understand. Bad news is its a long way up... But if youre going through hell, just keep going.

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#13053 - 04/14/12 03:48 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: FreeBird]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
newbird....i'm having a good day today...thank God....obviously still obsessing that's why i'm here!...That stomach ache thing is good....we need to feel sick in order to stay away!!....This totally sucks I know..let's hope sooner rather than later!..

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#13055 - 04/15/12 03:48 AM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
I'm glad you have a better day.
I myself felt much better yesterday. These wrse days just come along once in a while. Its like a rollercoaster. The only thing Ive learned to do is to always remember that IT WILL go away. Its just a phase. Then it gets a little easier. It pisses me off coz it blocks my whole energy and I feel hopeless. But then next day comes and I feel OK, I am myself again.

The good thing is it gets weaker with time. I hope it eventually fades out, at least so much to not be more that a sad memory.

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#13063 - 04/15/12 02:20 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: FreeBird]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Becky and Newbird, glad to hear today is a better day;)

Di

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#13121 - 04/26/12 05:09 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: starry]
Tang Offline
member

Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 8
3 months of silent treatment after he blew up my world,hurt me physically,mentally and financially,blamed it on me and has given me a total silent treatment for 3 months. I dont excist to him anymore,no more than a dead fly he killed and threw in the garbage. I feel i am healing a little,slowly,veeery slowly. He is like a scorpion,they seem to have no special purpose on earth,well yeah they eat incects i guess to stay alive,but i doubt they make anyone or anything happy. He stung me,i didnt die but i have the poison in my vains,i feel it in my vains,i dont know how to get rid of it from my body and from my soal,maybe mostly from my soal. But i will get better,i promise that to myself,i will find the help i need to get rid of his poison. He denies me closure.

I feel bad now,i needed to get this out. Thanks for this place.

Tang

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#13122 - 04/26/12 06:36 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Tang]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Tang, I am very sorry for your pain, yes it is like being stabbed and the wound feels like it will never heal. It will but it is a process. Even after all these years I still struggle with the injustice and pain. When I find myself going into a mental spin I sit quietly and find my center. Life is a work in progress.

I think until we can heal ourselves then we can find the closure for ourselves by being able to find peace for ourselves be in a better place and know that we are wiser and not let it happen again. You did nothing wrong, there is nothing you could do to change what happened. They target nice and kind people.

I saw a quote today that spoke to what our community is about and will post it also in the quote thread.

The longer you keep it to yourself the harder it is to make it go away.


Di

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#13128 - 04/27/12 12:46 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: Tang]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
Im suffering from the same....no contact in over 3 mos......after 3yrs of sleeping with him every night........it's getting easier every day but trust me..it totally sucks.

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#13133 - 04/27/12 03:50 PM Re: Empathy, compassion and forgiveness. [Re: becky]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
They disappear when they don't need you anymore. But it's not you. Any normal person would never do anything like this, and even if they hurt you they'd fell ashamed and bad and truly sorry and they'd do anything for you to forgive them. A Psychopath doesn't feel sorry.

What you should remember though, about it all and especially your feelings, is that you had and lost, while they never had anything in the first place. And while you can go on, recover, and gain much much more and much much better, they never can. They will never have the most important, most amazing thing in the world, something that defines humanity and makes life worth living - they will never have all these feelings.
And while you suffer and hurt now, and they stay indifferent, remember that once its gone, they will still be indifferent to life, while you will love and joy and embrace life even more that you ever did.

As humans, we have this amazing ability to heal and grow. They don't. And they never will.

They don't have a choice about their life. You do.

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#13135 - 04/27/12 05:24 PM Re: Absolutely [Re: FreeBird]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
NewBird...I so wish I had your anger...I am so stuck in the traumatized state.....

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#13141 - 04/28/12 07:32 AM Re: Absolutely [Re: becky]
Tang Offline
member

Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 8
I can so relate to what you feel becky,some days i feel im getting over this and then comes backfire and i get sad and depressed,still not understanding how he could do this,how he can just drop me out of his life. He has no friends,i was his only friend in every way,after what he did to me he is still angry because i freaked out and said everything that i felt about him,i know i was right......i had crazy anxiety because he had a key to my house and i felt like my keychain burned me cos his key was there,i demanded a key switch that made me much calmer. Now i am just sad and empty inside,glad this anxiety having him arround is gone but i miss him,him how he was when he was "normal" but he was only that way arround me,arround others he was always a clown.

This is the hardest thing i have ever had to live in my life,i wish there was a pill i could take and i would not remember him at all,like life was before i met him.

Its all about HIM like always....damn i feel pathetic frown

Do you feel like this? Am i the only one? I think normal people cant understand this.

It does suck.
Tang

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#13144 - 04/28/12 08:37 AM Re: Absolutely [Re: Tang]
FreeBird Offline
member

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 230
Tang, we all do feel this way.
It fades a little bit over time but I dont know if there's ever a happy place. I hope there is.

Today I was walking down the street and I saw him for a moment, crossing my path... well, it wasn't him, just someone who looked a little like him. But my heart stopped. A shot of cold fear, and I was almost trembling.

And what scares me the most is it wasn't just that fear of Psychopath, it was also the fear that if I look into his eyes he'll gain control once again...

It was a scary experience, but also an important one.
I've noticed that the more you correlate them with all this fear and bad stuff, the easier it gets. The biggest problem is dealing with their two-faced character. They are sweet, and lovable at first, or as long as you cater them, then comes the evil face. Just keep remembering the evil and it gets better.

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#13146 - 04/28/12 10:01 AM Re: Absolutely [Re: Tang]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Tang,

Quote:

Do you feel like this? Am i the only one? I think normal people cant understand this.


I know you are in a world of pain. Please know that we are normal people who had this awful thing happen to us, that is why we understand. I think is next to impossible to have someone who didn't experience this horror terror to even try or be able to understand. I ended up with one person who understood and that is rare. The rest ignored me and thought I was the crazy one and sadly some thought I deserved what I got and must have done something wrong myself to cause it to happen. Truly sad, but we are here for you and although we may never meet in person we will listen to you as you process this horrible life altering pain.

Di

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#13148 - 04/28/12 10:35 AM Re: Absolutely [Re: Tang]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
Tang.....Everyone is so right.....we all feel the same!.....I have to say today I am feeling some anger.....YEA....not a lot but f u kind of stuff......I heard a song that I love and I try to remember it in the dark times....Katy perry sings it it's her new song (it's called "part of me") and it goes like this ...THIS IS THE PART OF ME THAT YOUR NEVER GONNA TAKE AWAY FROM ME....YOUR NOT GOING TO TAKE MY SOOOUUULLLLL!........NOW LOOK AT ME I'M SPARK A LING!...that's my favorite part! yea girlfriend, keep singing that!...look it up on you tube..it's fabulous! and so are we, now sparkle!!!

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#13150 - 04/28/12 10:57 AM Re: Absolutely [Re: becky]
Tang Offline
member

Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 8
I want to let you know your are all amazing! This reply from you both is like getting sunshine into my soul....for the first time in a long time i really feel like someone understands without judging me. Reading this got tears in my eyes because i can just open up,not pretend im some tough person that im not,im just a broken woman that is desperatly trying to get the peaces of my life back in order and trying to understand why and how this happened to me.

Now i feel stronger (i know there will be a setback on that) i might go two steps forward and one back but i will and i must get my inner peace back and reading all your stories and how you deal with day to day feelings and thoughts are helping me alot.

Thanks to you all.

Tang

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#13151 - 04/28/12 12:08 PM Re: Absolutely [Re: Tang]
becky Offline
member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 86
tang.... smile......just for you!

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