Agreeing with you here, twin. No contact with these people, even though they are family. Life gets a lot more peaceful.

Guess what, folks. In the past week, both MIL's and SIL's cars have been wrecked. MIL's granddaughter backed into a covered parking area and bent one of the support poles in half; scraped one whole length of MIL's van. Van's still in the shop. The managers of the complex are still figuring out who's going to pay to repair the parking cover. (I'm sure MIL is whining "But we're broke! We're broke!" Bullsh*t.)

SIL rear-ended somebody with her car. She was bringing MIL home from the doctor. They had stopped somewhere for ice cream. MIL's ice cream was falling to the floor and SIL leaned down to grab for it. BAM! Into the back of a car.

We drove past them on our way home after the police were there and everything, and knew better than to stop and get in the middle of that mess! Besides, we had frozen food that needed to get to the freezer, quick. LOL

Just deserts.

You gave me a laugh for the day, I can picture your driving past to get home to get your things in the freezer, lol, lol. Now that means you have made a ton of progress when you know keeping your food safe instead of worrying if they were safe. Like who cares. Could sound callous but I found your post quite funny.

Di

So glad I could give you a laugh. We are still chuckling over it.

Something new every day.

The Psychopaths next door have gotten desperate.

A couple of months before my husband's father died, the two Psychopaths went and changed ownership of everything Dad owned out of his name and into theirs. They took as much as they could hide, financially, and hid it. Then they proceeded, quite illegally, to apply for Dad to get Medicaid, since he had nothing! And he was approved!

We have kept as far away from all of them as you can when you live next door, so we didn't know much more about what they have been up to. But this morning, they called my husband to please come over because they needed some help. He always goes, just to listen and find out what they've done now.

For three hours they spilled their guts about how their cash flow has gotten down too far and they needed to sell some assets -- could he help them cash it out? They told a lot of the things they've done because they seem to have no concept that a lot of it is illegal, unethical, immoral, etc. The only thing they will not reveal is how badly they have shortchanged a couple of the heirs.

It came out that Medicaid found them out, as they always do, and made them pay back thousands of dollars or face prosecution. Yay, goodie! I think they were surprised, and not quite sure what they had done wrong. Then there were those car repairs (rather, the insurance deductibles), and other unnamed things. Turns out they have tied up those illegally hidden assets so well, they can't quite get their hands on them now without a paper trail or paying an attorney a percentage to free up the stuff. Oh, boohoo.

They tried one thing to snag husband in -- please buy a little batch of our assets for cash. He agreed, and I couldn't believe it. I suggested that the items in question are now on an inventory list in the attorney's hands, and if they try to liquidate the items "under the table," he could get in trouble along with them. They would happily take advantage of that to ruin him, and me. Geez! So he called and said he was not going to be able to do it after all. He told them to take the items back to the person who appraised them, maybe he'd buy them.

Soon they call back with another idea. They want to put some assets into a new and separate safe deposit box and call them gifts for the four heirs upon MIL's death, and the only way the box can be opened between now and then is if three of them are there at the bank to sign in (and keep an eye on the other). Except! If MIL needs the cash from those assets, then she'll take them back. Say what! I blew up. That is no gift! MIL is trying to hide assets, plain and simple!

Not only that, husband's name and signature would be involved, and they would figure out some way to sink his ship. No, thank you!

Then they started edging into the whining, poor-me thing, and trying to make him feel responsible for helping them out. Whereupon I read husband the riot act. I am so angry at those idiots! I had just about calmed down from wanting to choke SIL, but today really stoked my fire.

Husband keeps claiming that he only goes to see them to find out what they have been up to. But it seems they always manipulate him into helping somehow, and when we examine it, it is usually to his detriment. You don't stick your hand in a fire just to see how hot it is! You don't swim out into a rip tide just to see what mood it is in today! (But-but-but they're my family, he says. Phooey! I say. Do they treat you like family?)

I told him one of the mottos of this group and a child-of-narcissist group I'm in -- Most folks say the best defense is a good offense, but with psychopaths and narcissists, the best defense is -- RUN!

Good for you, blueheron. Trust me the system is set up to find fraud. Anything in safe deposit boxes etc. they will track down. We all know they will just scr*w you in the end if the going gets tough and it will. I would never be go along with that hot potato, they would prosecute you as accessories to the crimes THEY committed.

Your husband needs to understand that by going along with any of their not so swift criminal acts will lead the fire back in your direction and your home and life will be destroyed along with theirs.

You are so right, so what if they are family, they sure didn't treat you like family by bilking you out of your rightful inheritance. So what if they are in a jam, it is one they created for themselves. Now that Medicaid is investigating them for the first fraud, I would think twice even knowing what they are up to. Who wants to spend the time with idiots now turning criminal to protect themselves and drag you into their net. You are right, RUN, cut off the long idiot conversations that they are plotting, I would be inclined to figure out who in Medicaid is investigating them and the only reason I would talk to them would be to gather evidence to send them down the river.

I can understand your husband is a really nice guy but I would stop any contact with them while they are cooking up criminal plans. Unless I was planning on getting evidence to turn the investigation heat up I frankly wouldn't even want to hear what they are up to. The less you know the better so when their boat gets really rocky, they can't turn on you....again. They are evil and capable of anything when they really get cornered. I am sure the investigators that caught them the first time still have their radar in their direction. Boo hoo, cry me a river, they have tried to manipulated you and your husband long enough. It would actually be nice to see them being hauled off and lose everything, then you wouldn't have them next door.

You might remind your husband that they are NOT family, they sure didn't treat you like one by getting all the other relatives to treat you like you were dirt over the holidays.



What a pack of idiots, banks need ID to get safety deposit boxes, that is how they will get tripped up, frankly I would monitor their calls and not answer them to bring some peace back to your own home, if you have to block them I would do so, why be a bundle of nerves when the phone rings.

I wouldn't put my name on anything involved with them even if they held a gun to my head. It is THEIR problem not yours so why be bothered by them. Let them twist in the wind.

Di

blueheron, I absolutely agree with Di on this.

I've had a think about it too, and it worries me. To me it seems like he's still 'caught' by them. As Di says, he's putting himself in a dangerous position in even just going round and listening to what they're up to.

I'd like to add another reason to the ones that Di has given. An easy way to 'break' someone is to put them in a position where they know they are going to be witness to something truly terrible, something which runs contrary to their moral (or even professional) code of conduct.

That person is left with a dilemma: they want to get away from the people/events/situation that is putting them in this situation, but they feel bound and responsible to try and 'do the right thing' in their eyes. Doing the right thing involves getting tangled up in the people/events/situation further, it involves a lot of stress and a very tortuous path (putting strain on family, friendships, finances, jobs...all the things we work hard to nurture and look after). So it's almost easier to say nothing and suffer in silence. But the knowledge of not having spoken up and 'done the right thing' is a very poisonous thing.

I've seen my dad do this to other people, and I've been on the receiving end of my dad doing this to me. It is horrendous. Dealing with my dad's latest set up has cost me the past 5 years of my life, a number of breakdowns, any chance of full time work, caused a huge amount of strain on my life and all my relationships.

There's no such thing as innocently listening in on something that these people are plotting, or in the middle of doing. Even just being within earshot, you're giving them attention and you're opening yourself up to manipulation. Eventually they'll hit on the one thing which puts you into that impossible situation and then it's too late, you're trapped. For that reason, please tell your husband to stop going round. Neither of you need to know what these people are doing (conversely as that might sound).

Dianne, starry, you are both amazing and spot on. Thank you so much for taking time to read and write a reply. This whole situation is getting scary. I am trying really hard not to escalate myself into full-blown paranoia, but they are so unpredictable it is difficult.

Today my husband has been complaining of stomach pains. Well, no kidding! Me too!

We are calling an attorney tomorrow, if I have to drag my husband kicking and screaming. We need to find out how to protect ourselves; I'm not interested in pursuing them legally -- we have already realized there will be nothing coming from the estate -- we just want to keep them off of us.

I'm sure you've heard it before, but as perverse as it sounds, I am glad someone has seen this kind of thing before and understands what is going on.

Thank you!
blue heron

Hey blueheron, what happened with the attorney, what kind of attorney did you see?

I hope it was a wake up call for your husband, if he thinks his stomach hurts now that is child's play if he gets you both under the hot lights of these criminal actions.

Maybe it is my age showing but when I get a whiff that someone is messing with the law and in particular the system I run in the other direction, I don't even want to know what they are up to.

Hey who knows this might be the answer to your dreams if they get caught hiding assets they may just lose their home and you will be free from living next door

Di

Hello,

Dianne, we just got home from the attorney (estate attorney). Well, granted, we stopped on the way home for a margarita and some guacamole because we were strung tighter than a cheap violin. We never drink, so one drink did a nice buzz job. Oh, well. Now we are not so upset any more.

The attorney heard our story with increasing amazement. He confirmed that several of the things they allegedly did were highly illegal. Then he said since my husband's name has not been on any of the estate documents for a couple of years, he's pretty safe from whoever wants to come after them for anything. We could turn them in for some of these illegal activities, but since probably nobody else knows about it, they would know exactly who turned them in. Since we live next door, it would be pretty difficult to get away from any of their attempts at revenge.

When we told the attorney how SIL has the new fee arrangement set up with their attorney, our attorney said that is usually the way they set it up when they are expecting someone to sue. So! They must be expecting us to sue them. I have heard for months that they are afraid we would sue them. I would call that projection, because that is what they would do if the shoe was on the other foot. But I always want to know what it is they have done that they think someone would sue them. Eh? Plenty!

The attorney was able to check online with the local courts to see if Dad's estate was being probated, and by whom, so we got a printout of all that info, which is helpful.

The attorney was very careful how he put it, but he said it was likely we would never see a penny from the estate unless we wanted to go to court. We said it probably was not worth the mental anguish, and that we had already accepted that probability. We just wanted to know if our rear ends were covered from anyone coming after Dad's estate and the people who are executing it. He said yes, as far as he could see.

He also said STAY AWAY from everyone next door from now on -- why do you even want to know people like that. I agree.

As far as them leaving next door -- as soon as MIL dies or moves out, they all must go, since this is a senior community and people are waiting in line to live here. It won't be long.

Thanks again for your kindness and help. If any of this does not make sense, it's the frozen margarita talking.

blueheron, I'm so impressed with how you're dealing with this. And how great that the attorney understood what was going on and gave you the advice he did.

You've been in my thoughts the past couple of days.