New Day,

Every P is different and, certainly, every relationship follows its own path. However, I have read that the length of time that a P mantain's his/her focus usually lasts no more that 2 - 4 months. My P was in the adulation phase for 6 - 8 weeks. I can still recall the exact instance when my P "snapped" so to speak.
Of course many people, even some on this forum, have been involved with P's for many, many years. However, most realize that all of the signs were there from the very beginning.

Rick

My P was great for the first couple months, and then the mask began slipping. There were even warning signs in those first couple of months if I'd paid closer attention - like asking me to marry him before our first date. Luckily, his mask slipped pretty early in the game - I can't imagine the devastation I would have suffered if I'd actually married my "prince", or spent any serious amount of time with him.

I'm not sure how long most people get to see the charmer. I've read that the mask often slips on the actual honeymoon, or with the birth of the first child. My P was separated from his wife and freaked out when she started dating. That was when I saw the mask slip for the first time. Even though he was completely responsible for the end of the marriage (two decades of infidelities - it turns out), he couldn't allow her to date (even though he was dating me). So he started stalking her and threatening her suitors. And when I figured it out and left him, he told me he was over her and wanted me. And then he'd pursue and stalk me until I gave in. There were a few rounds of this (with lies and additional women added to the mix) until I gave up.

The problem is they can turn on the charm at will, and the memory of the "prince" illusion is a very strong one when you are vulnerable.

I'm so excited! I've tracked down a library that holds Dr Robert D Hare's book titled 'Without Conscience'. I'm going to borrow it at lunch time today. I'm sure I will have it read from cover to cover before the time I go to sleep tonight. But in the meantime ... Does a psychopath now they are a psychopath and that they are different from others?

New Day....

From what I have read, most psychopaths do not know that they are labeled as such unless they have be clinically diagnosed. Even then, I would have to wonder if they are capable of grasping the meaning of the word. If one does not feel emotions....could it possibly make any difference to be told this information. Again, from what I have read, psychopaths do tend to feel different from others.... omnimpotent, omniscient, superior, etc.... And they have contempt for "normal, feeling" people.

Rick

Hi All,

I am new here, but have read most of the posts in this thread.

I am no longer involved with the man that I am now almost certain is a P. But he was a major force in my life for almost 5 years. I was lucky in that most of our involvement was via daily email, although we did meet several times for extended visits. He left me reeling, confused and fearful. I finally terminated the relationship, but it was extremely difficult.

In fact, the end came when during a discussion he threatned me(I had become angry at his insistent questioning) by saying, " I will kill you, if you try to hurt me." He is a BIG man and very strong. However, I was abused when I was a child and had long ago decided that I would NOT allow psycical violence against my person. So, I stood up and when he moved towards me, something inside me took action. I didn't do him any harm but I knew that I would kill him if he touched me and he later said that he could see it in my eyes. In any case he backed off.

Although we wrote to each other for almost a year after this incident, I have refused seeing him after that and I deliberately made myself so difficult (via email) that he eventually ended the relationship. I knew that he would not allow me to end it and I looked for ways to get him to do it. We have not been involved in any way for about a year and half.

Still, I often get the most incredible and unpleasant feelings about him. It would not be too farfetched to say that I hate him. It feels as though I have been permanently turned off men as a result of my relationship with him and I don't really understand this. Has anyone else experienced this?

This below is so true of this man.

1. charming and articulate. they always seem to know what to say and are relaxed, good, entertaining, eclectic conversationalists (at first).

He is very bright, very articulate with an almost photografic memory. He has the word in his power. He used a very advanced type of 'logic' in his discussions and he did not like it at all if I gainsaid him or disagreed with anything he said.

He could switch from being very kind and understanding to being very cold and hard and his face would become a mask and his eyes very hard. He was relentless in his argumentation. He never let me off the hook and confused and intimated me to the point were I did not know what to do.

This (below) is so true of his behaviour that it I could have written it myself.

5. deliberately tries to confuse and intimidate when confronted or questioned. psychopaths and narcissists will try and flip your words around on you, often bringing up things from the past or thing they know about you that they know you have issues with. they use this strategy to prevent legitimate communication about "reality", which they actually seem to fear. they will also scapegoat and make you look like the villain when you are merely asking for clarification.

These two quotes are just part of what I, in retrospect, understand about what happened to me. I am still wondering about him and the influence he had on me. It feels as though he has damaged something inside me but I don't quite what he did, how he did it and why I cannot let it go. Why do I feel that even the idea of a relationship with another man is out of the question?

I can live without a relationship but I do not like my reasons for not wanting one. There's something odd about my thought processes in that regard.

Regards,

Nan

Nan....

Welcome to the forum. Yes, you are totally correct in all of your observations. Thank you for your posting. It has brought back certain memories of my first P....and some clarification and insight to (potential) P#2.
P's do have the gift of talk.... at first... as you stated. They can be charming, funny and fun to be around. Once they get through their "stories", though, keeping this going doesn't come naturally. That is why they make such good actors. They need lines to read.
In response to the way that you are feeling at the moment. We have all been there in one form or another. I, too, thought that I would never be able to open up my heart and trust another person. It feels as if this is an impossibility...right?
First of all it does help to read as much about the personality disorder as you can. Obviously, you have been doing that. Secondly, talk to as many people (that will continue to listen) as possible about the situation. I found several people that had also encountered P's in their lives by doing just that. Our talks were mutually beneficial. If you don't have a therapist, get one. Most therapists have encountered P's in their work... typically brought in by a partner to help "work things out." This personality is the most frustrating of all for a therapist...totally incapable of any (true) introspection and taking responsibility for their actions. I truly gained a lot from my talks with my therapist.
Yes, the shockwaves from having been involved with a psychopath last for a very long time. Longer for some than others. I will tell you, though, that this cloud will lift.
At first you will have slight glimpses. Eventually you will get to the point where the P doesn't even cross your mind for the day, a week, etc... I rarely think of my P any longer. I will say, though, that the "no contact" protocol is really what has helped me regain and maintain my equilibrium.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your reply.

You wrote:

"In response to the way that you are feeling at the moment. We have all been there in one form or another. I, too, thought that I would never be able to open up my heart and trust another person. It feels as if this is an impossibility...right?"

I don't know! I may not have explained myself that clearly. What I feel is a very pervasive kind of loathing having to do with the physical aspects of men in general. I am not a spring chicken by any means, and a potential male friend would have to be past 55 or 60 or thereabout. I have been married and I have children and have had several relationships where I enjoyed all aspects of it. But not now!I just feel disgust at the thought of anyone touching me.

I become almost irate when I see, watch or read about, men doing the things they have done for millennia. I am not even a feminist. It's as though I have become very impatient with the games we all play and the games that men in particular play with women. I don't like that I feel hate toward the man I knew. Hate is not a useful emotion in that it keeps you in place and unable to move forward.

I have seen a therapist! It was helpful.

I don't normally think about the man and I surely don't miss him, but suddenly he jumps into my mind and I feel such loathing.

Perhaps the hate and the loathing is actually directed at myself for having been so foolish as to be taken in by a psychopath. That's not, I think, such a wild guess. What think you?

This man share many of the characteristics of the different P's I have read about here, although some characteristics do not seem to apply.

This man is successful at what he does and generally very well liked by his casual friends. He is extremely helpful to these people and they all think the world of him.

He is not promiscurous, in fact he was not very sexual, but seemed to have low sex drive. He is however a dominant man with a wide repertorie of sexual fantasies that he liked writing about.

He has physically bashed his exwife around. I was astounded when, quite by accident, I heard about it. I questioned it, but he was certain that she deserved it. He was quite persuasive and I foolishly believed him.

He doesn't drink and he is not addicted to drugs of any kind.

He is extremely anti-religious. To the point where he wanted to forbid me to continue my investigations into religion and Buddhism in particular.

I have read a lot of material that connects to psychopaths. It is helpful but I am still left with this unpleasant feeling that I have been branded in some way. Branded may seem a very strong word but it really is a very apt word for how I feel. I have a fair bit of insight but seeem nonethe less at a loss for how to become 'unbranded' if you will.

I am hoping that through this forum I will get an AHA experience that will help me.

Thanks,

Nan

Hi, Nan -

I have experienced many of these same feelings. I will be going along nicely and suddenly experience a burst of anger toward my P. I sometimes feel I have lost my ability to trust my instincts. I have a hard time trusting anyone other than close friends and family. I am afraid of letting anyone get too close, and have tried very hard not to sabotage my latest relationship. And if I have the slightest sense that someone is toying with me, I have no tolerance and will jump down their throat.

I broke up with P a year ago, and have not responded to any of his subsequent manipulations for over 6 months. A few months ago, he started showing up at a weekly social thing that I enjoy - and I have successfully ignored him. Until last week he always came alone - this time he brought his latest target.

While I am not jealous (and feel like someone should warn her), I get angry that he is still toying with me - and using someone else to do so. I get angry with myself for ever letting him into my life. And I get angry that he can still make me angry!

I have never before had a relationship that was so hard to move on from. And the funny thing is that I no longer feel attracted to or interested in him in any way. So that leads me to believe that all my issues are exactly that - my issues.

My counselor has told me that I need to forgive myself. I'm not sure how to to that but I'm trying a visualization technique where I think of a stop sign whenever I start obsessing. Then I actively change the subject in my brain.

It has gotten better with time, but there are still setbacks. I like to read the old posts on this forum - I've had many lightbulb moments here and it has helped immensely. I am also comforted that people post here for awhile and then disappear. I imagine that they are healing and no longer need the forum as much. I'm hopeful that we will all heal, too.

Lynnie

Hi Lynnie,

Thank you for your reply.

I can understand from your post that you live in the same area as the P you knew. That must be very difficult! I could not stand it if there was a chance that I would run into the P I knew. We live in different countries.

The issue of you getting angry because he can still make you angry is something I can truly understand. For me there's a sense that the P (I refuse to call him 'my' P, for he surely does not belong to me)I knew still has power over me, for why else can he make me angry.

I like your idea of using the Cancel button. It works! I have tried it before. Thanks for reminding me about that.

You mention that you've never been in a relationship that was so hard to move om from. Pehaps it will simply take more time than I thought. I too, am not the least bit interested in or attracted to him. And yet....why does he pop into my mind the way he does. It's never in a loving way, never a feeling of longing or of wanting to be near him, just ugly thoughts that run like a broken record - over and over.

You write that " So that leads me to believe that all my issues are exactly that - my issues. "

Are you suggesting that my ugly thoughts are prompted from within - that they have no relation to the P - that whatever thoughts I am having about this have nothing to do with him?

Intellectually I know that it must be so, emotionally well..that's another cookie. What a mess!

The thread is 'How do you spot a psychopath?' The thing is that it's very hard to spot the more clever of these people. They really know how to get close, to get at our innermost being and the sad thing is that we play along - we let them get close - we allow them the keys to our souls and by the time we realise that something's really, really wrong we're in over your heads.

I have done dreaming and dream workshops for many, many years and very early in my relationship with the P, I had a dream that scared me. I wrote it down and even though I often take conscious notice of my dreams I ignored the very overt warning from my unconscious. I had other dreams that I ignored and it almost seems that my unconscious gave up on warning me. Luckily, in the end my body took action and I am forever grateful that some part of me understood the danger I was in.

Thanks for your caring post.

Nan

Hi, Nan -

>>> You write that " So that leads me to believe that all my issues are exactly that - my issues. "

Are you suggesting that my ugly thoughts are prompted from within - that they have no relation to the P - that whatever thoughts I am having about this have nothing to do with him? <<<

I wish it weren't true, but at least for me I'm sure it is. And I'm also sure it is the key to letting go - if I can get at the core issues. That's not to say that we are responsible for the P's horrid behavior - just that we can choose to stop letting them control us from afar (which is a daily struggle for me).

Before P, I considered myself an intuitive, intelligent person. But after letting this vulture into my life and the lives of my friends and family, I have at times felt stupid, guilty, ashamed, angry, etc. I think this is why I related to your use of the word "branded".

I have been in a "healthy" relationship with a caring, kind, generous, loving person. I use quotes because while it appears healthy (nice, respectful, loving), I sometimes feel disconnected from the emotion I want to feel for him. This has improved with time. And hopefully it will continue to improve as I attempt to make the daily choice to not let P have power over me.

Lynnie