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#13154 - 04/28/12 01:32 PM Re: Help with recovering in the afternath [Re: starry]
TheChallenger Offline
member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 11
Wow, Starry, what you wrote was like a revelation for me.

I know what you're talking about, that with age, just heard it so much, almost been indoctrinated with the word, young, had questions to my counsellor or peers, questions I dared to ask, got the answer, but you're still young. So sorry for that ,but as you say, it's the truth, doesn't matter what age, we still react on the same level.

That with the food, to feel and sense again, I will follow that advice, I see the course you've more adviced me to take, and it's a brilliant thing, even though for some people it might be viewed as silly, for I sort of take people on the word, lean back and be, Oh how does it taste, how does it make me feel, etc..Will be some slow dinners the time ahead, poor gf.

Originally Posted By: starry
The desire to protect and shield the ones we love from what we have been through and what we know now is very common.


It's how you say it is, to protect her about worrying, for I see she worries when I might sit an hour or so and stare out in the window (wow I sound like a mental patient on a locked ward), when I return and she's looking at me. I know my flaws at least, as the incident has brought me closer to myself and manage to try and look at myself in a third person, at least my logic mind is not scarred, but it also comes from, I believe, the time where I had to weight my words, how I acted and all that, and it has helped me somewhat to see my problems. I do not want her to worry, for gods know what she thinks, what she is afraid to ask, if I am thinking these dark thoughts or not, which I am not, I just go over the event again and again, what could I do differently, and how a person can do as he does and let it go out on others, I can't even fathom, but yet I somewhat manage to understand the nature behind it..or I think I do, we'll never know, for how a psychopath thinks and analyzes we can't even imagine, which has scared me, and I need to let go off that fear.
I want to protect her, care for her and do whatever she wants me to do, why I can't even answer and it might be my subconcious talking, logic tells me she's been so kind and she doesn't need or deserve pain, for your words got me thinking, might be as you and she said, the emotions are there, but are disconnected, but still controls me. We have free will and so far I've used it, I hope, to just make it easier for people in their lives.

Originally Posted By: starry
One of the hardest things I've found is that there is nobody who can give you the answer to all of this.

I believe that each of us already has the answers to the questions we're asking within us. It's a case of posing the question very precisely, learning to sit with the question, and exploring the solutions, opportunities and possibilities that come up within us.


Why I signed on to this forum, in my life nobody has given me an answer that has eased my mind of all these things, and my father adviced me to seek up a group or group-therapy, and this forum popped in to my mind, perhaps some has some answers and perhaps what I experienced and did might help someone else.

We all know what is good for ourself, but the problem as you said, ask the right question, and many times we can't ask the right question to ourself, and someone might ask the right one.

But what you say about fear:
I haven't the same fear as you, but more what I will do if I meet someone like him again, my reaction. But I've found it easier to cut off toxic people from my life, those who use me and take advantage of me and my situation. Fortunately most of my old friends I still have a connection to, some moved others are busy with work and such but we still meet and hang out at least twice a month, which I think is a good thing, we didn't loose everything at least.

Your question about closure got me by surprise, I have to really say it, had to think a lot before answering now, as I found myself, what do I mean by closure?

What I hope will be a closure is that I do not run around thinking I've turned in to what I fought, throw away that fear, to regain my emotions or at least feel them again. To look back and just nod and say, it happened and I need to learn from all this, to go on with my life without that fear and train of thoughts bothering me.

It is an achievable goal I think, but I need to work towards it, but just need the right questions.

Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Hi TheChallenger, I think you are in the right place to start your journey back to the real you, here others can help you with what worked for them.

I think the expression "one day at a time" is too long in these cases and it is more like one breathe at a time, it sounds simple but it takes work with such trauma to be in the present and take that next breathe and keep bringing yourself back to your center of what is really you.

You are wise to not accept medication, I did and it did indeed prolong the process and also had some serious medical consequences.

Last week I meet with the most wonderful psychologist, have been to them all, they all either didn't get it or wanted to shut me off with medications, he is going to work with me to help me with my self esteem issues that are still holding me back after all these years.

I made a vow when I turned a year older recently that I will never accept toxic people in my life ever again, first signs and they are out. I think I have Psychopath radar to keep them out but I found myself involved with a couple of toxic people in the last few months. I had really just shifted from the extreme end of bad people in my life. Now I am firm and that is how I will move forward.

Di


It's good to hear you found a psychologist that actually seems to understand the problem and not want to throw you in to a haze of narcotics to "get away from the problem". Yeah, but it's a hard thing you have to go through, Di, toxic people are hard to find at first, but when notice them, I agree, close them off from your life, you do not deserve such people in your life after being what you've been through.

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#13159 - 04/29/12 05:08 AM Re: Help with recovering in the afternath [Re: TheChallenger]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Originally Posted By: TheChallenger

That with the food, to feel and sense again, I will follow that advice, I see the course you've more adviced me to take, and it's a brilliant thing, even though for some people it might be viewed as silly, for I sort of take people on the word, lean back and be, Oh how does it taste, how does it make me feel, etc..Will be some slow dinners the time ahead, poor gf.


I try and apply this principle to lots of areas in my life. So, focusing on and appreciating everyday acts, like eating, breathing, feeling the weight of your muscles in your body and how that changes as you relax.

And I try and apply it to problems and difficult times too. So stopping to think about a problem and breaking it down into the smallest parts has been working for me. To give you an example, I find it difficult to cope with negative and manipulative people in general now. It's like my whole system shortcuts straight to overdrive and I go right into full on panic mode. I know the feeling really well, I'm really familiar with it. So when I get that feeling, I know I have to stop and backtrack a bit. I ask myself some questions: how is my breathing, and I try and focus on that. If I'm stressing I know it's shallow and fast, so I try to slow that down very consciously. I know what muscles will be tense, so I focus in on those and try and soften them. I try to feel the connection between my feet and legs and the ground, because I know this is one thing that I lose completely when I feel like this. After all of that, I remind myself that I have a right to my feelings (which I never did with my dad), and a right to be present in myself and in my body. And I remind myself that I can choose how to react to this person/situation.

It's a lot of stuff to process, I know. And sometimes it might take me a week or so to get there, after I've experienced something negative/manipulative from someone. Kind of like slowly bringing myself back from the brink if you like. Other people (people who haven't been through what we have) might do all of that without thinking about it, and in the flash of an eye. But I've had to learn how to do that, because I jump straight to absenting myself.

I'm not sure if you can relate to any of that, or any of it is helpful for you.

Originally Posted By: TheChallenger

It's how you say it is, to protect her about worrying, for I see she worries when I might sit an hour or so and stare out in the window (wow I sound like a mental patient on a locked ward), when I return and she's looking at me. I know my flaws at least, as the incident has brought me closer to myself and manage to try and look at myself in a third person, at least my logic mind is not scarred, but it also comes from, I believe, the time where I had to weight my words, how I acted and all that, and it has helped me somewhat to see my problems. I do not want her to worry, for gods know what she thinks, what she is afraid to ask, if I am thinking these dark thoughts or not, which I am not, I just go over the event again and again, what could I do differently, and how a person can do as he does and let it go out on others, I can't even fathom, but yet I somewhat manage to understand the nature behind it..or I think I do, we'll never know, for how a psychopath thinks and analyzes we can't even imagine, which has scared me, and I need to let go off that fear.
I want to protect her, care for her and do whatever she wants me to do, why I can't even answer and it might be my subconcious talking, logic tells me she's been so kind and she doesn't need or deserve pain, for your words got me thinking, might be as you and she said, the emotions are there, but are disconnected, but still controls me. We have free will and so far I've used it, I hope, to just make it easier for people in their lives.


Wow, there's a lot there, that you said.

All I can say is that you did what you thought was best at the time. That's all that any of us can do. The past has happened, and all we can do is try to find a way of being which is free from pain and suffering in this present moment.



Originally Posted By: TheChallenger

I've found it easier to cut off toxic people from my life, those who use me and take advantage of me and my situation. Fortunately most of my old friends I still have a connection to, some moved others are busy with work and such but we still meet and hang out at least twice a month, which I think is a good thing, we didn't loose everything at least.


So there is the answer to your question. What do I do if I meet someone like that in the future? You know already, and you've done it - cut them off from your life. And you're also finding a way to protect yourself from it, with your circle of friends, who know you well and who have stood by you.



Originally Posted By: TheChallenger

What I hope will be a closure is that I do not run around thinking I've turned in to what I fought, throw away that fear, to regain my emotions or at least feel them again.


So the thing that causes you most trouble is the fear that you've lost your emotions, which are something precious to you, something very fundamental?

At the moment it seems like you're staring into the abyss and at the horror of it all (which is pretty bad, we all know that here and understand it). And the horror of it all is the fear that you've lost your emotions.

Maybe instead of staring down at the abyss, try to inch back from it and look at something which is good and positive for you? Something which inspires you instead of frightens you? What do you enjoy doing? What do you have a passion for? Something creative? Something to do with sport? Do you like cooking? Reading? Learning new things? Looking at nature?

My counsellor suggested I keep a journal of gratitude. I really like the sound of this. Every day I write a sentence, or a word, or stick a picture in which I like, something that fills me with joy and happiness, something that I am grateful for. I've noticed I've started looking out all these positive things in my daily life, actively looking out for them. And with that, I've noticed that I actually feel different in myself. I noticed it in the car one day. I felt...light, bright, filled with positive energy. And I wondered if that feeling had anything to do with my train of thought. So I tried a little experiment to see. I deliberately thought about my dad. And it was incredible, I felt heavy, leaden, like I was wearing a steel corset and someone was holding me down by the ankles. It was a horrible feeling, I hated it, and I wanted to be back in my light, free, happy place. And now the strange thing is I really don't think of him much at all now. I've gone from thinking about him I'd say 95% of the time, to practically not thinking about him at all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is what we think about influences us in so many very subtle ways. So if we think about their hate and poison, we end up being affected by that, our bodies react to that. If we think about positive, life affirming things that we enjoy, our bodies react to that as well. And there are lots of different ways of inviting those life affirming things to be present in our lives.


Originally Posted By: Dianne E.

I think the expression "one day at a time" is too long in these cases and it is more like one breathe at a time, it sounds simple but it takes work with such trauma to be in the present and take that next breathe and keep bringing yourself back to your center of what is really you.


Absolutely. Single breaths are the building blocks of life.



Edited by starry (04/29/12 05:09 AM)

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#13160 - 04/29/12 09:06 AM Re: Help with recovering in the afternath [Re: starry]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Starry, you are so wonderful for this great answer. You have summed it up so well.

I know people think sometimes Zen is a religion but it really isn't, the sum of it is to be in the present moment one breathe at a time.

One day after a meditation session I asked the Zen teacher what to say when someone says something negative or tries to unload on me and she thought for a moment and said, say, "well, if I were in your shoes I would probably feel the same way". Have used that often because if you really think about it you are never going to be in their shoes, you only have your own shoes to be in. It stops me from getting into their "stuff" and staying in my own moment. No one has ever caught that I am really just saying something that gives me an exit from the conversation. I then get away.

She also said one day that when we decide to beat ourselves up over the past it is only a matter of how big a stick we pick to use.

I plan to start using your techniques to find the gratitude, there are many things that I have to be very thankful for, it is too easy to overlook those things that bring us true joy and peace. Finding them is the key to feeling at peace in the moment.

For starters I am very grateful for all of you for taking this journey together. I hope for those that post and the many that can't bring themselves to post that we will all find the peace we deserve. With every thought a member posts I learn a lot and for that I am very grateful.

Di

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#13162 - 04/29/12 10:06 AM Re: Help with recovering in the afternath [Re: Dianne E.]
starry Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 350
Thank you Di, for taking care of us in this wonderful forum.


Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
what to say when someone says something negative or tries to unload on me


This is what I've been thinking about these past couple of weeks. I'm trying to think ahead a bit now, to develop strategies and have them at hand for when I meet someone negative or manipulative.

Originally Posted By: Dianne E.

and she thought for a moment and said, say, "well, if I were in your shoes I would probably feel the same way". Have used that often because if you really think about it you are never going to be in their shoes, you only have your own shoes to be in. It stops me from getting into their "stuff" and staying in my own moment. No one has ever caught that I am really just saying something that gives me an exit from the conversation. I then get away.


And this is a perfect answer. I had thought that I should just agree with everything, 'yes, I can see how that must be difficult for you', type answers, as a way of not being forced into a defensive position. But I like you teacher's answer better. It's quite elusive wink


Originally Posted By: Dianne E.

I plan to start using your techniques to find the gratitude, there are many things that I have to be very thankful for, it is too easy to overlook those things that bring us true joy and peace. Finding them is the key to feeling at peace in the moment.

For starters I am very grateful for all of you for taking this journey together. I hope for those that post and the many that can't bring themselves to post that we will all find the peace we deserve. With every thought a member posts I learn a lot and for that I am very grateful.

Di


Maybe we should start a gratitude thread on the forum? wink

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