Newbird...

One little piece of advise. make and maintain eye contact. always stay focused on the knowledge that this person has no feelings.. he/she will probably never back down, but will be on alert.

when i want to have an 'effective' conversation with my father, meaning one where i don't ruffle his feathers, i speak to him as if i'm speaking to a boss you don't like or trust. if i don't do that he will really get ugly and pull out all the amo. dragging me from one random awful thing to another.

Eye contact - hmmm, I was thinking of actually avoiding it.
You think I should look him in the eyes so that he knows Im serious? I don't follow:D

Since I have an amazing life now, all the feelings are almost completely gone. So I think it's gonna be an easy talk - me being totally neutral to this and just saying there is nothing I can do, you (the Psychopath) are the one who is responsible for what you did, and I am just doing the right thing, telling everyone about it.

NewBird, believe me HE is watching YOU. With his eyes, his ears, he is so intuned to your energy. Like an animal.

So I think a stance of strength is good and effective.

My father, even on the phone.. is in tuned to what he hears. He gets pissed if I'm preoccupied either physically (like doing the dishes) or mentally (not actively listening.. you know with the uh huh and other sounds and comments). If I want to piss him off, all I need to do is challenge him. He's totally illogical - totally. So the opportunities to point that out are endless. So I will guess this is a commonality with Psychopaths. No logic. So if you want him to look imbalanced.. calmly challenge him.

I'm not sure what you want from him.. like what kind of reaction.

Now as much as I say this.. getting my dad to do something is pretty much impossible for me. I can calm or anger him.. but I can't manipulate him to act. Kindof interesting. I keep thinking that I would like to do this.. but that would be too much energy from me.

daddysproblem - I am still amazed how what all of you write here, those little details - how they correspond to my situation - it was the same for me - my Psychopath would not accept a talk without my constant attention. If I said: "aha" too many times in a row he would get really upset.

Challenge him - hmm, in what way?
I guess it would be enough to just say I will not accept any kind of manipulation or lies, and should he try any - I will leave. This should piss him off enough at the start for him to get lost.

NewBird,

Challenge? Funny question. I understand it intuitively but to explain it. He's deceptive on every level and revisionist and self absorbed.

Let's see. He may want me to do something for him. I say I can't because 1) I have to work or 2) I am not feeling well 3) I don't like that restaurant. these are challenges to him. he's pissed now because he's not getting what he wants.. so his responses are 1) I worked my whole life taking care of everyone, EVERYONE... or 2) Sick? you're not feeling well? You're mother and I aren't feeling well. 3)We've been going to that restaurant for years. It's very special to us.- on the restaurants he actually gets pissed if i don't go to his favorite place when he's NOT around - it's like a religion.

When I'm on the phone with him I can't be doing anything else because he can tell. It pisses him off. If her hears me at all, or senses that I'm distracted - that's a challenge because he get's pissed and angry.

Any kind of logical communication.. he's pissed if it contrasts with what he wants at the time.

I actually lived with them when my son was little (i was still minimizing the problem) and he brought a dog home.. and boy did i need a friend in that house.. and that dog knew it and we bonded.. man - he didn't like that. She became my dog - I loved her. (I believe my pets have saved me - gave me the love I needed) So, he actually got another dog - so now there were 2 big dogs in the house for years. So after I moved away... I needed someone to watch her... so - although he never offered... i did a really brave thing (cause he does NOT like to be asked for anything) I asked if he could take her.. and he said.. what? what? I can't have 2 dogs in this house? WTF.. YOU brought BOTH dogs into the house?

It is a constant continuous illogical experience - always peppered with rage. If you don't fall into it.. and I guess it's called co-dependent (mother and brother) or something? You'll go mad interacting with him.

Anytime I assert my needs or wants is challenging to him.

Hey, even a yawn when your talking to him is a challenge. I have alot of issues - I'm such a lucky girl.. who said daddy never gave me anything.

Off topic.. kindof.. so anyone reading this.. please what are the people called who are sucked in to these Psychopaths? How do they get so lost? As I wrote above - co-dependent? But it must be more than that. My mother and now my brother are completely sympatico with him - minions. Actually my mom with alzheimers (induced by torture of Psychopath and brother) in her confused state was a total mina bird.. yes dear, your right dear, you had to dear - when he knew she was not all there - it drove him NUTS - and he and my brother were abusive. And now unbeknownst to me and my son, they unilaterally put my mother in a home - and brother has all of daddy's attention. Been working on that for 62 year.. score.. done.. the work paid off. The day after they put her in (yesterday) (which in actuality is the best place for her - anyone would be better than them) I called to ask how things were.. holy smokes.. the rage.. and now (i mean wow instantaneous she's gone one day and my brother sounds just like my mother did) they ganged up on me - one on each phone.. excerpts: "we've been talking about this for 12 year" "why would we discuss it with you/son?" " you don't care, You're not here" (we can't be 'here', he moved my mom out of state.. so we should follow them?) Who says this? You can't fix crazy (i know it's you can't fix stupid).

My son says it's time to cut them off. He's devastated by this. (he was heart broken when my dad moved her). My mom (no prize - i'll say that - she's a pretty mean 'you know what') was different with him. Which until he was in his teens worked for all of us. They spent alot of time together when I was working. They had a really funny relationship. It was sweet. I think she finally had the freedom to love someone. It kept her busy for daddy Psychopath so he could 'do his thing', so he encouraged it.

I think I need to go to Alanon meetings.. my one friend said that's where people like US are Because they are NOT in my realm. I just hate this S*@t and feel horrible that I wasn't savy (?) enough to have kept my son away from this. damnit!!!!!

I already wrote about it. I think it corresponds very well, since any kind of relationship with a Psychopath is a kinds of addiction.

daddysproblem - you basically strengthened my belief in how I should behave in the meeting. I'm gonna lay out the ground rules, and keep cool. Any kind of manipulation will be cut at it's start and I won't let him get to me. This will be a good chance to show him it is totally over in my eyes and that I will not back down, no matter what.

It is easy to say "Cut off the psychopath!".

But, what if the "psycho" is the mother of your children?
And you whant to see you children grow up!

That is a problem I was unable to solve!
I divorced the psychopath, but mothers always get the custody, I realize now.

It is a hell .to live witha psychopath.
But, it is even worse to divorce one!

Father. First of all, I am so sorry for your plight.

Now.. you need to do anything you can to save your children and reduce her influence. Mothers do NOT always get custody. I would definitely always keep trying to get custody if I were you. But even then you now have children with a Psychopath mother. BAD... VERY BAD. Like they say, until death do you part.

I would make sure to utilize the mental health community in the form of therapists for your little family. You can only make the best of the situation, I doubt you can eliminate the problem.

Good luck.. and use this site to provide you with the support you will need. These Psychopaths are rare and slick.

Hi,
I found your top ten list really helpful. Thank you so much.
Sometimes we find it hard to accept. We must do it for our own safety. Our healthy life.
Love,

Number one on my top ten list comes from a therapist I saw for a short time.

1. Treat the person as if they are senile or have dementia.