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#1544 - 11/13/04 01:35 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: Nan]
JustAMan Offline
member

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
In reply to:
For what it is worth, personally I do not believe anything that a self "aware" N has to say, however well put.




Hi Nan,


<


NPD is not a condition I know a lot about... Ive only come across it incidentally...





Are all Narcissists pathological liars? I don't know.



In reply to:
As Millon notes, certain narcissists "incorporate moral values into their exaggerated sense of superiority. Here, moral laxity is seen (by the narcissist) as evidence of inferiority, and it is those who are unable to remain morally pure who are looked upon with contempt."


is this true?...



justaman

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#1545 - 11/13/04 02:41 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: JustAMan]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hi JustAMan,



[from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994, commonly referred to as DSM-IV, of the American Psychiatric Association. European countries use the diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization.]



“An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectation of the individual's culture, is pervasive and inflexible, has an onset in adolescence or early adulthood, is stable over time, and leads to distress or impairment. “



Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. Grandiosity:



“An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)”



Narcissists live in their own fantasy worlds (and react with affront when reality dares to intrude):



“Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love”



You write:





“Are Narcissists pathological liars? I don't know.



“I believe that indications are that they are less, or should that be MORE…..? than truthful especially if they have something to gain by it.



Regards,



Nan

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#1547 - 11/21/04 02:55 AM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: JustAMan]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hiya,



Fascinating indeed!



Thank you so much for finding the 'Caveat Emptor' (buyer beware) site. Very interesting!



How are things coming along with your friend?



Take care,



Nan




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#1548 - 11/21/04 06:13 AM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: Nan]
JustAMan Offline
member

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186


How are things coming along with your friend?


She's a bit down at the moment. Medical problem. Possibly stress related. Plus she's absorbing the reality of p at a gut level and thats tough on the emotions...

re: Caveat Emptor. Bookmark this site http://www.archive.org - The Internet Archive
very useful for retrieving pages that have gone offline..

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#1551 - 11/21/04 06:46 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: recovery]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Thanks recovery, I have a busy week coming up getting ready for my open book test. Then I plan to spam the internet with my knowledge and see how many papers I can write each week. Between writing all the books and papers and spamming the internet I should find myself quite busy. I have requested a waiver so I don't have to pay the $100 to get my degree.

Dr. Di

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#1552 - 11/22/04 02:26 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: JustAMan]
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi JAM

I have been reading your posts with interest as I keep thinking that there is too much distinction made between NPD and PPD and it can only cloudy the water and give more places for the P to hide. I also think there is something not quite right about Sam V and his writing.

But I think you have a great way of capturing and analysing the information - long may you post here!

Recovery

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#1553 - 11/22/04 10:40 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: JustAMan]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
I have just finished reading "Narcissism Revisisted" and have been left feeling more confused. I had come to the conclusion that my husband was a narcissist rather than psycopathic after visiting Vaknin's site, but after reading his theories in depth, I came out with a different conclusion and did not see my husband so clearly as an n. I found Vaknin's writings to be very inconsistant, with many contradictions and with what I judged as incorrect assumptions on many issues, even on minor things like when the average age of menopause occurs.

I do not think that Vaknin is a narcissist although he obviously requires narcissistic supply and wonder whether he is covering his true condition up. I too dislike his pathologising of the victim and am suspicious of his insistence that therapy cannot help the n.

I have concluded that my husband is very likely a psychopath initially and will be more determined over no contact whereas before I was thinking of him being less dangerous and more pitiable, the very thing that dragged me into the relationship and caused me to stay. It has not helped me to have the differences blurred.

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#1554 - 11/23/04 02:59 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: Mati]
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Mati

you wrote
-------
I have concluded that my husband is very likely a psychopath initially and will be more determined over no contact whereas before I was thinking of him being less dangerous and more pitiable, the very thing that dragged me into the relationship and caused me to stay. It has not helped me to have the differences blurred.
----------

That captures the key factor - thats how we are trapped by the P - because we feel sorry for them. AND that is what Sam V is pushing - pity for the P (N) blame for the victim. I think he is a real threat to progress on "outing" Ps because he blurs the boundaries and creates non-existent ones. I Hope he is not widely listened to.

How are you - Hope you are doing great?
Recovery


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#1555 - 11/23/04 10:15 PM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: recovery]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
recovery said

"I think he is a real threat to progress on "outing" Ps because he blurs the boundaries and creates non-existent ones. I Hope he is not widely listened to."

Yes I agree but unfortunately think that he is. He makes a joke about staying with an n but put it my mind that it is possible, albeit by pandering to their needs of n supply. I think this man is dangerous. I have gone through impulses to go back and accept everything on his terms despite telling him that if we are to be friends like he requested (to enable him to keep control of me and stop it looking bad that I won't have anything to do with him))then I want him to see a psychologist and be diagnosed and a long course of therapy started (best thing I did to keep him away)

I am progressing all the time thanks but am finding it harder to cope with the alienation of my sons as time goes on and it becomes worse.

I am making arragements to see a good psych. to help me and a counsellor too (will choose the best after consultation)

But I am so pleased to be out of p's orbit and keep up the no contact rule. Divorce proceedings have started. I still get short spells when I start to miss him but I soon make sure that reality kicks in. I will post my divorce statement on the fridge door

Thanks how are you?
Mati

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#1557 - 11/24/04 10:47 AM Re: difference between NPD and psychopathy [Re: recovery]
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
"I also think there is something not quite right about Sam V and his writing."

Could it be that he is a psychopath himself copying what other people are writing and trying to make himself into someone he is not

freedom

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