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#15205 - 05/21/13 05:15 PM psychopaths and law enforcement
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Psychopaths are more likely than normal people to commit crimes and, even when caught, to reoffend. Nonetheless, somehow I have a feeling that they are also better in getting away with stuff. Like that they will either lie their way out, charm the judges, pretend to be a victim while blaming the actual one and swear horrible remorse without ever feeling it. I guess unless they do something really bad and obvious they usually just dodge the consequences.

I remember lecturing my Psychopath about respect for others when he was repeatedly provoking guys, usually in the everybody's drunk situations, to the point when it almost got to physical violence. I always tried to calm it down and explain him (good joke) that when you treat people this way they get upset and overreact (like he didn't know, ha). When that failed miserably in changing his attitude I tried to tell him it's not a good idea since they can get really angry and actually assault you (gosh, it's just now I realise that I was waving red flags at myself). The stunning response I got: "I know. Then I'll just call the cops and this is going to be their problem". The guy always knew when he was within the law and it seemed to give him pleasure to use law to his advantage. Whenever he did something illegal he made sure there was no evidence while he kept records about other people and provoked them to misbehave. He is I think just sort of the "smart psychopath" type - knows exactly how to screw everyone, get his sick pleasure from it by making others miserable and then blame the victim for actually defending themselves. Drive people's emotions so high that they get crazy or get violent. I usually don't defend people who resort to physical violence but when dealing with him I'd absolve a murder. I wonder he did not become a lawyer (well, that's probably a good thing...).

Do you think this may be the case in general with them? I mean, when I read stories here seems like my Psychopath was actually super cunning with that stuff (I don't know if he has better controls or just is into a more "benign" kind of abuse) but it feels to me that these guys even when obviously criminal get very low sentences for the [censored] they do, especially when people go to prison for years for weed smoking.
And if that is so - how do you change that? Should we test criminals for psychopathy and treat them harsher? I mean, this sounds reasonable but then I know that such stuff is open to abuse in practice (my experience with mental health professionals is rather bad and I bet there would be tons of people misdiagnosed in both directions would it become common practice). Or should we just try to push more education for people in general and especially in law enforcement and judiciary to give them better chances of seeing though these snakes? How to fix that stuff?

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#15241 - 05/25/13 06:00 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: crocodile]
tigerlilyj Offline
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: crocodile
Drive people's emotions so high that they get crazy or get violent. I usually don't defend people who resort to physical violence but when dealing with him I'd absolve a murder. I wonder he did not become a lawyer (well, that's probably a good thing...).

Do you think this may be the case in general with them? I mean, when I read stories here seems like my Psychopath was actually super cunning with that stuff (I don't know if he has better controls or just is into a more "benign" kind of abuse) but it feels to me that these guys even when obviously criminal get very low sentences for the [censored] they do, especially when people go to prison for years for weed smoking.
And if that is so - how do you change that? Should we test criminals for psychopathy and treat them harsher? I mean, this sounds reasonable but then I know that such stuff is open to abuse in practice (my experience with mental health professionals is rather bad and I bet there would be tons of people misdiagnosed in both directions would it become common practice). Or should we just try to push more education for people in general and especially in law enforcement and judiciary to give them better chances of seeing though these snakes? How to fix that stuff?


He got away with stealing my computer (and then RETURNING it), he got away with physically assaulting a number of guys, he got away with putting me in jail for 2 days by telling the cops that I had 'attacked' him (when I was defending myself from his blows)... He is the biggest coward I have ever seen in my entire life, I have seen so many cowards in action but he takes the cake. To hit your girl so badly, for her to try to defend herself, and then to call the cops on her pretending to be the victim? He even tried to convince the prosecutor that I was bipolar, which didn't last long since I showed that I have no background. I mean, how bad can it get?

He started punching a random guy on the street because he was 'in a bad mood' and that 'it was my fault that I worked him up like that'. What was wrong with me to stay with him??? He started punching another guy in a club who had touched my ass, I can't believe that I thought he was being chivalrous when he was just acting like the total neanderthal that he is. On my birthday last year, there was a huge fiasco when a girl had her iPhone stolen. She found it later but everyone said it was my ex, because they said that he had stolen things before like girl's bags and sunglasses, phones at parties... I made him swear this was not true and being in love like I was, I listened to a total lunatic in the face of a HUUUGE RED FLAG. These kinds of accusations don't just pop up out thin air, now I realize. They come from the fact that people really had a huge problem with him and hated his guts!!! He and his mom always use the word 'lawyer' in a tough situation. He always uses the law as a sort of shield, out of cowardice, to supposedly intimidate others. He feels power from his ability to 'yield' the law into hurting other people, pushing them to insanity and then trapping them.

I almost admire his sickness because he has both very low education and intellectual capability, but he's got psychopath skills and cunning that let him get away with anything!

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#15242 - 05/26/13 01:32 AM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: tigerlilyj]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I guess the only way to deal with these guys is to be persistent. A lot of people give up on prosecuting these guys because they just want to escape the whole situation and often are to much in deep [censored] because of them anyway to bother. Which is understandable and reasonable, however, in a sense enable them to go on in pretty much the same way. Just kind of confirms the sad maxim that for the evil to happen it takes the good people to do nothing. It's not though to blame the victim for not going after them, I know how difficult and often even impossible it is. However, there are situations when you can do something and I guess you should... I'm always keeping my fingers crossed for people who drag these bastards to court or manage to give them an opinion they deserve. However, I wonder how to make it more efficient (people who didn't have the "pleasure" of meeting these individuals in real life are, with rare exceptions, often too ignorant not to fall for their lying - I guess when we need as a society is a hell lot of clever education).

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#15265 - 06/04/13 03:58 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: crocodile]
marinde Offline
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Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
Yes yes yes... i do recognize this.

We're in court over visitation over our son. We're both tested by a forensic psychologist, specialized in psychopathy.

Example: she actually did see (hurray!) that he has problems with empathy/feelings. He admitted to her (i told him i had evidence) he threatened to abduct our son. I have on e-mail his completely calculated plans to buy a remote farm in his country of origin, that he still referred to a year later, and have witnesses who overheard our telephone conversations: he demanded i register our son in this country "or else..".

She has to make a risk assessment. And she won't even write down that he admitted his threats. She won't name it as a risk. Instead.... she'll write down he was desperately fighting for his rights (even though i can prove that was not an issue at the time) and did some things he regrets. So the risk will be: mother is trying to control the visitation. (maybe...because i don't want my son to end up in some remote foreign farm with a crazy guy?!?) :-/

I was thinking:

- There is rational conscious reasoning-decisions. Where you use logical arguments and then the other person understands that it is probably not the best idea to let a guy babysit a 2 year old when he threatened to kidnap him, thought that through completely and has problems with empathy.

- There is emotional inconscious feeling-decisions. Where someone comes across as a vulnerable little boy and starts crying desperately because his angry ex keeps his child from him and he just said some tiny little stupied thingies that of course he regrets, but oh well wouldn't you do everything to fight for your child? So then you feel all empathetic towards this guy. And afterwards you rationalize it all and you make up excuses for him, like his ex was probably too controlling...etcetera.

The problem is that people usually don't make rational decisions. They make emotional decisions and afterwards make up rational stories to make it seem logical. The problem with this type of guy is that they push peoples inconscious emotional buttons so well that people basically ignore all the rational reasoning, so you can (i did) talk rationally to them for two hours and give them tons of evidence but they'll just twist the evidence to fit their feelings "that he would never do"

I don't think there's a good solution, because that's just how normal people function.

Brain scans would be great. Collecting loads and loads of evidence. Recording the Psychopath while bragging about his manipulation skills. Pointing out all the reasoning flaws and take it to the next decisions making level, hoping some day someone will see through. Finding others with the same experiences with the same Psychopath?!?

I also record conversations with the decision making people now... the psychologist told me he admitted his threats...now she won't write it down to protect him...but i can prove that he admitted it to her.

Would explaining the mechanisms to people help?

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#15266 - 06/04/13 03:59 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: marinde]
marinde Offline
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Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
There are some other things she DID see through btw... so it's not always working. But often it is.

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#15268 - 06/05/13 03:14 AM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: marinde]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Quote:
There is emotional inconscious feeling-decisions

Yes, but I think there is also a fear in people to appear irrational when they make strong statements. We live in the crazy political correctness society when we always assume that the truth is in the middle no matter how ridiculous it is and people are afraid to take one side even if it is clearly the right one and are also afraid of being responsible when they're wrong about it (inaction would be easier to excuse than the incorrect action).
Plus it is really difficult for people who had no close contact with Psychopaths to realise what they really are - they may even know on the rational level since they were taught about it (and even that is rare) but to really know how bad it is - people prefer to keep they're illusions or they simply cannot comprehend, it's so different for a normal human experience. Professionals need a lot more training in that unfortunately...

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#15271 - 06/05/13 08:39 AM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: crocodile]
marinde Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 58
Yes, I totally recognize what you're saying, thanks for making it more clear! I think many people are big cowards. It indeed feels like they're always trying to make up a story that is right in the middle of what the both of us are saying. They just don't dare write down that one is just plain wrong and a threat and the other is not. Plus they all say "well... it might be this or that...it is wise that the next person looks into it more..." We're being pushed from one institution to the other because no one dares to say "it's enough now".

And..indeed, people can't comprehend and don't want to give up illusions. Even if people are trained, they still can't comprehend it.

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#15923 - 08/16/13 07:54 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: marinde]
Ishewatching Offline
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Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 10
They just don't believe that a strong handsome charming successful 6ft5 man could be this person I say he is. Even social services are ignoring the children saying he is abusive. He is trying to get me set up fr mental illness and having secret meetings with these people. If I get upset because I am scared of him they think i am out of my mind. For some time women's aid believed me but now they are out of the loop I have nobody to turn too. He may hget my children on 2 september and I will be lost! I am at the end of my rope trying to cope with this fear and nightmares!
he poisoned my cat and tied my dog to the car and drive down the road with her. He dragged us down the stairs by our hair and raped me and locked us up for months! Nobody knew as he was never apart from me. he told me he would kill my friend if I called anyone.

I lived a nightmare and he wont leave me alone! he has robbed us and bankruoted our comapny . I have nothing left. He wont stop until he has destroyed me and I dont think anyone can stop him. How can I walk away from my children? I cannot leave them with him on purpose. My 12 yar old had a break down and now has a social anxiety disorder yet social services think he should move back with his dad??!!! I have done all I can for the kids and tried my best to keep my family safe from him .

I am so depressed now and cant sleep. Just two weeks and two days to go before I have to fight again. Not just fr them but for me.

Maybe I am mental? Maybe he is right? Maybe I should give up and leave? Crazy people dont know they are crazy right?

It's hopeless....until one of us is dead there will be no end

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#15929 - 08/17/13 02:55 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: Ishewatching]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Originally Posted By: Ishewatching
They just don't believe that a strong handsome charming successful 6ft5 man could be this person I say he is.


I can kind of understand that - my Psychopath basically almost told me he's a Psychopath and I did not believe it or rather didn't understand what he really meant. I've heard an interview with a Psychopath who said that he basically sometimes tells people and everyone thinks he's joking, no one takes it seriously. It's the "Ted Bundy effect" - that's why it's good that they awareness is rising about the psychopathy. It's really hard t comprehend when you've not been through the experience or didn't watch someone close to you go through it.

I know how it's hard when you don't know what's crazy and what's true anymore. Talk to people you trust - a friend, to your kids. They will tell you what then truth is, they will keep your sanity in check. Crazy making is the favourite Psychopath's strategy and they make excellent use of some stupid shrinks/psychologists who couldn't tell a serial killer even if they followed him on a hunt. I guess the only advice is try to stay as calm and composed as it is humanly possible and gather all the evidence you can get your hands on. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

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#15937 - 08/18/13 03:08 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: crocodile]
Ishewatching Offline
member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 10
If anyone has any ideas then let me know . If he can plot long term then so can I . I don't want to been seen as crazy . I feel like I need anti depressants but I can't go to my doctor as my records are looked in every court case . His too but he has another doctor in Ireland not under uk law . I'm thinking if setting up one myself there . Okay the same game . If I can use an address ( I've been offered) then I can get a doctor there . Soon I can get a licence or bank account . Just like he has . He plans ahead .
What can I do to trip him up long term ?
I'm getting married and moving . I'm thinking of once moved I take the boys out of school and home school them . He has to find us to get us back to court . The new house will be in my partners name so not mine . We will be behind nine foot walks in a remote village .

I'm trying to get a consultant to recommend home schooling as an option . I'm allowed to do that as a parents right . He can fight me after the fact . If I'm in a different area it's a different education department and a different social services . They will have to re investigate the entire thing from scratch . That will cost him and delay him . My eldest son is 14 . 15 once we move and youngest 11. Not too far off finishing school . I will work from home so I can do that school work needed

I have to fight fire with fire . Some times the only form of DEFENCE is ATTACK

Thoughts ?????????????????

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#15939 - 08/18/13 05:05 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: Ishewatching]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I'd be careful about taking medication - it does not help everyone and even when it does it may take months to find the right combination. Meanwhile some of the drugs can make you feel much worse, both physically and mentally (the side effects can be devastating). If you really feel you need help I'd try a therapist first not drugs. Actually some researchers claim that anti-depressants are actually placebo for the majority of people who take them - it's only people with very severe depression who show a small benefit and that probably because their depression is truly organic and not triggered by trauma or persistent stress (I'll put in the links when I have more time to find them).
For depression I found one thing that helps for sure is sports - that's both my personal experience and there were also studies to show it. I guess meditation could help as well or any form of relaxation exercises.

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#16605 - 07/10/15 12:20 PM Re: psychopaths and law enforcement [Re: Ishewatching]
landesign987 Offline
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Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 1
Mine is a district fire chief. So if you are in Louisiana? Beware.

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