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#15236 - 05/24/13 09:42 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: tigerlilyj]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Back to red flags: he was also almost never concerned with my safety. Whenever we would go out until late in the night and I had to come back home on my own, he never cared to check on me (like ask me to txt him or so) and was always very disturbed when I asked him for that when I was worried. Actually whenever I was caring for him and therefore wanted him to let me know if he's safely home or stuff like that he would be irritated and later on told me I was trying to control him.

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#15237 - 05/25/13 03:21 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: crocodile]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
And a few more:
- He tries to take you on as some sort of "project" and attempt to "improve" you, as if you need to be "fixed" and he/she's doing you some sort of favor.
My Psychopath told me once that I'm a challenge to him and was really surprised I got upset and angry - the way he talked about it was as of an object, something one does to satisfy his own vanity and not a relationship with a person. He was also constantly trying to "help" me to be a happier person and said that the only thing he wanted in future is me telling him that I'm so grateful for his help, the way it changed my life. That should have been a huge red flag, I have no idea how I could have taken it as something positive. Also he is trying to arrange your appearance - what you wear, how you cut you hair and so on making you insecure and also taking credit for your attractiveness (like you were a poodle to be taken to trimming). This can also extend to other things outside of cloths like the equipment you buy and so on -it's a mixture of him being an expert in everything (he's so proud he always knows what's the best and brags about his expertise) and his controlling nature. In the same time you may notice that he has no problem conning people (he always bragged how he buys used stuff really cheap when people have no idea what is the value of what they sell - somehow he did not see it as exploitive).

- Instead of being honest with you about how he feels, you find out that he ridicules you behind your back, even when you have expressed a preference for honesty
Yeah, except I was so isolated that I had no idea he went around and vented all his issues with me in front of others (not only his friends but just anyone, including MY friends). And I have repeatedly asked him to be honest with me and tell me all the bad things - he was always somewhat elusive in his answer to it.

- His place is impersonal - no pictures of friends/family, no souvenirs, no personal items. If there is something there it's only because you or some other woman placed it there and he did not throw it away yet. Same with his workplace and wallet - a lot of people keep pictures of their family/spouses/kids in their wallet together with the documents. Never puts up any personal screensaver/desktop image either. Whenever I gave him something it just disappeared without a trace. When I asked him how he liked the present he would ridicule me for it like I was such a small-minded woman who cared about little gifts of no value or openly laughed at my emotional connection to them (I kept everything he ever gave me). He also said it's so easy to please women - just buy them cheap jewelry and they're happy. He seemed to miss the whole point (it's not about the monetary value is about the thought and love you put into presents) but in the same time knew that he could use his carelessness with it to upset you. Probably being a Psychopath he really did not understand what's the whole fuss about but learnt that it can be used to hook up/upset the victim with presents both given and received.

- Playing hate/trust card - often asks you if you hate him or whether you trust him. If you say you don't hate him he knows he has a clear way and can switch to nasty mode. I you tell him you trust him be sure he'll betray you in a course of weeks. My Psychopath used to ask me to trust him a lot (which is weird in itself - you don't go to your friends and tell them - hey, it's time you trusted me, we know each other for so long - it should be their decision to trust someone) and I usually told him I was always cautious with people (he later on made me believe I have issues with trusting people). When I finally gave in and told him I trust him he immediately turned around to stab me in the back. And then when I was unhappy and told him I don't trust him anymore he said he didn't care about my trust anyway. When it comes to the hate thing - he often complained that people don't like him/hate him in the same time saying that he doesn't care. He often complained to me people hate him because of me (they did because they saw how he treated me) and I had to be sorry for him and basically take the blame for other people hating him because of him being nasty to me. If that does not sound crazy I don't know what does. And in the same time he tells you he hates you with utter vehemency when he is angry and the next day when you're all broken he will say "I was angry, that's why I said that" like being angry excuses the whole thing without the need for additional remorse - it's your fault you made him angry after all.

- He dumped his ex in an incredibly mean way - in front of her friends, for example. And he has no shame to tell the tale.
He did that with me (he brought his current GF to witness) and he also bragged about leaving his ex. Also having no friends of the opposite sex is a warning sign (well, sometimes he will pretend that this or other girl is just his friend but it will always involve sex). Mine had only male friends (and a number of them were gay - he also bragged about how he was attractive for them although he was not homosexual himself)

- He makes it clear that he doesn't want you talking about him to anyone else.
That's a way to make sure you're isolated and the others only know his version of events (be sure, he will talk about you even if he promises that the secrecy and intimacy of your relationship is mutual - later on you'll find out not only that he talked but also WHAT)

- He is domineering and selfish in bed. Gives you orders. "Touch me" "Look at me" "Tell me how much you want me." He won't get off unless you are doing these things. Sex is NOT a sensual experience for him. He doesn't understand that you are a human, have feelings, need to be treated gently, etc. Sex is just another method of him proving his greatness. And if you don't get off, he'll be upset (and possibly make it you fault - how cold you are). Not because he genuinly cares about you; but because he didn't live up to his false sexual alter ego. And moves on to fetishised sex early on - it's OK to have some play after you've been in a relationship for a while and things get less intense but if he needs additional stimulation after you've been together for a few months is a red flag.

- he can't express real joy and happiness - mine never really laughed, he only smiled or smirked and only when the conversation was about making fun of others in a mean sort of way. His sense of humour was reduced to meanness (making fun of others for their looks, personal problems and so on) or making you feel uncomfortable (jokes that seemed like normal friendly exchanges that over time turned to him making fun of you - in these exchanges he always had to have a final say, the moment you hit his soft spot he would immediately change his mood and explain how wrong you are). You could recognise his good humour by how nasty he was - the meaner the comments the more glaring he was. And then he would also go into more playful, predatory mode. I've never seen him being happy in a pure sort of way which makes people shine from the inside and be kind to others - his "joy" was always in making others suffer or watching their downfall. When asked if he was ever truly happy he did not seem to understand the concept. He also was never satisfied (even after achieving a real goal he was like - "well, I don't dwell on it and move on to something new, that's just my way". In a sense he seemed to be just as shallow in his positive emotions as in the negative.

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#15239 - 05/25/13 05:23 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: crocodile]
tigerlilyj Offline
member

Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: crocodile
And a few more:
- He tries to take you on as some sort of "project" and attempt to "improve" you, as if you need to be "fixed" and he/she's doing you some sort of favor.
My Psychopath told me once that I'm a challenge to him and was really surprised I got upset and angry - the way he talked about it was as of an object, something one does to satisfy his own vanity and not a relationship with a person. He was also constantly trying to "help" me to be a happier person and said that the only thing he wanted in future is me telling him that I'm so grateful for his help, the way it changed my life. That should have been a huge red flag, I have no idea how I could have taken it as something positive. Also he is trying to arrange your appearance - what you wear, how you cut you hair and so on making you insecure and also taking credit for your attractiveness (like you were a poodle to be taken to trimming). This can also extend to other things outside of cloths like the equipment you buy and so on -it's a mixture of him being an expert in everything (he's so proud he always knows what's the best and brags about his expertise) and his controlling nature. In the same time you may notice that he has no problem conning people (he always bragged how he buys used stuff really cheap when people have no idea what is the value of what they sell - somehow he did not see it as exploitive).


Jesus... My constant words on repeat: "I'm not a broken object that you need to fix!! I'm a whole person goddamnit, and I don't need you to help me get 'better'!" to try to reason with him, but people like him never learn. He never criticized or tried to change my appearance (if he had done that it would've been bye-bye immediately because he would have lost me, and he knows that everyone tells me that I am beautiful). He would tell me that I'm gorgeous in the beginning but then it stopped, like for Valentine's day I wore this really nice dress and everyone at the party told me how great I looked except for him, he barely even looked at me. And like earrings that I had been wearing for months that he didn't even remember when I mentioned them!!! When I got upset about these things he told me "you're beautiful i don't need to tell you anyway," and would call me "superficial".. I cant believe I accepted that as normal. Red flag was there already though...

Originally Posted By: crocodile

- His place is impersonal - no pictures of friends/family, no souvenirs, no personal items. If there is something there it's only because you or some other woman placed it there and he did not throw it away yet. Same with his workplace and wallet - a lot of people keep pictures of their family/spouses/kids in their wallet together with the documents. Never puts up any personal screensaver/desktop image either. Whenever I gave him something it just disappeared without a trace. When I asked him how he liked the present he would ridicule me for it like I was such a small-minded woman who cared about little gifts of no value or openly laughed at my emotional connection to them (I kept everything he ever gave me). He also said it's so easy to please women - just buy them cheap jewelry and they're happy. He seemed to miss the whole point (it's not about the monetary value is about the thought and love you put into presents) but in the same time knew that he could use his carelessness with it to upset you. Probably being a Psychopath he really did not understand what's the whole fuss about but learnt that it can be used to hook up/upset the victim with presents both given and received.


Totally, there are no photos at all, just his little gizmos and a wall decor or two from IKEA. HAHA. He hides all his photo albums on Facebook, he just showed me a couple of photos from him as a little kid, he NEVER expressed interest in seeing photos of my childhood or my past, goes to prove what a narcissist he is. All of his photos on his desktop or profiles are art or photography that he either copied or stole from somebody else. He has a CHEST full of his memories. Like a cave of dark secrets, creepy isn't it? What is he trying to hide? There he puts his photos and ex-girlfriend's presents, including my letters and gifts.. The bastard got a lot of gifts from me, but whenever he would 'get' me something he would either conveniently say he lost it before he could give it to me (he even made up a [censored] story that his mom 'stole' my birthday bracelet because she was jealous!! I cannot believe I bought that) For christmas he didn't get me anything, he 'pretended' that the stuff was at his mom's house, then finally days later he gives me these 2 hideous coats (what kind of christmas gift is THAT to your 2-year girlfriend????), that I could tell he just took from his mom's shopping bulk but didn't actually pick out for me.. I was crying and he told me 'sorry, I'm just not good at buying presents for people.' whereas he had just bought himself a load of new shoes .... He thought I was a materialist to expect presents from someone who is supposed to love me. He totally missed the point, thought it was about money ALWAYS. Money and sex is all that seems to be on his mind, the poor bastard.

Originally Posted By: crocodile
And in the same time he tells you he hates you with utter vehemency when he is angry and the next day when you're all broken he will say "I was angry, that's why I said that" like being angry excuses the whole thing without the need for additional remorse - it's your fault you made him angry after all.


Yes... he would hit me, rip my clothes, emotionally torture me and neglect me, go out without telling me where he's going and turn off his phone. The next day "It's your fault, you make me so angry sometimes..." And by the way, there's never an apology. Never. Whenever I squeezed out a sorry so that I wouldn't go insane, he would look away and sigh as he said it. Monster...

Originally Posted By: crocodile

- He dumped his ex in an incredibly mean way - in front of her friends, for example. And he has no shame to tell the tale.
He did that with me (he brought his current GF to witness) and he also bragged about leaving his ex. Also having no friends of the opposite sex is a warning sign (well, sometimes he will pretend that this or other girl is just his friend but it will always involve sex). Mine had only male friends (and a number of them were gay - he also bragged about how he was attractive for them although he was not homosexual himself) [quote=crocodile]


He had a reasonably serious relationship before me (so he says) where they lived together and she "pressured him" to get married and that he said no and so they split. His EX is married now, she married very soon after leaving him. He always made it sound like she was the crazy one, (I mean hey, that's what he's doing with me right now!) but I highly doubt that knowing him. She must have been so tired of his crap, and probably wounded so she found a partner soon after to ease the pain. I know that rebounding is not recommended, but right now finding a loving partner sounds like just what I need too...
What's the opposite about my psycho is that his friends were ONLY women. NO guys. When I asked him why that was, he always said that he never got along with other guys because he prefers topics of conversation from women and that it's more interesting (sexually too, of course). He always bragged about his virility and that other guys are intimidated by him and that's why women are his friends. He would always add random girls and start talking to them while we were together (very much to make me jealous on purpose to push my limits, which is what he admitted when we broke up) but of course out of the question for ME to talk to any guy! Talk about sick insecurity issues...

Originally Posted By: crocodile

You could recognise his good humour by how nasty he was - the meaner the comments the more glaring he was. And then he would also go into more playful, predatory mode. I've never seen him being happy in a pure sort of way which makes people shine from the inside and be kind to others - his "joy" was always in making others suffer or watching their downfall. When asked if he was ever truly happy he did not seem to understand the concept. He also was never satisfied (even after achieving a real goal he was like - "well, I don't dwell on it and move on to something new, that's just my way". In a sense he seemed to be just as shallow in his positive emotions as in the negative.


Well, his humour was definitely nasty, he loved anything perverted and sick to talk about, would go on and on about rape and gang killings on a regular basis (he would always sound more fascinated than disgusted) pretending that he was appalled and wanted it to stop... His lack of education did not help this at all though; intellectual topics did not interest him, they would always veer towards the world of porn or vile 'fun facts'. Worst conversationalist ever, loud booming voice to impose his presence onto to other people (to compensate his low self-worth), would never listen to me or other and just wait for his turn to talk. And overall lazy, unambitious, a leech! YUK YUK YUK

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#15244 - 05/26/13 01:55 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: tigerlilyj]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Quote:
What's the opposite about my psycho is that his friends were ONLY women. NO guys. When I asked him why that was, he always said that he never got along with other guys because he prefers topics of conversation from women and that it's more interesting (sexually too, of course). He always bragged about his virility and that other guys are intimidated by him and that's why women are his friends.

Well, that paradoxically proves the point - his female "friends" were merely sexual objects (either ex or future or potential or maybe even current that you did not know about). Mine also had a problem with males (they hated him more than women on average, probably because some women were attracted to him and therefore not immediately disgusted), he often said that they hated him because they were jealous of his attractiveness (I somehow bought it although this guy is not really very handsome, yes, there are girls who are super attracted to him like me but his perceived attractiveness comes mostly from being indiscriminate - if I slept with every guy who wanted to go to bed with me I'd have beat him in numbers for sure). But he did have one or two male friends with whom he had a pretty stable relationship (his relationships with women were merely acquaintances, short lived and usually centered around sex).
On an interesting note, for the psychopaths even the sex is not what it is for us. They are often using the withdrawal as means of control, simply because they are not really so much interested in it. Sure, it gives them physical pleasure same as for us but they cannot be really passionate about it (I guess because it requires again some sort of emotional connection). Hence, they need all the weirdness and fetishes and constantly do it with someone new as it is not exciting enough. The best sex is always with someone you love after all...

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#15245 - 05/26/13 02:09 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: tigerlilyj]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Quote:
intellectual topics did not interest him

Well, mine was a smart guy (I'd have never fallen for him if he wasn't, I've realised early on there's nothing that turns me down as much as stupidity). And in this respect he was ok, he could even display some degree of being humble, listening to others opinions and so on. I guess if he sticked to his professional career only and gave up on relationships he could be actually more tolerable. Although his psychopathy has taken toll on his achievements as well - he has severe problems managing people and absolutely no idea about it (I saw him many times overseeing a new employee and always felt super frustrated because he sucked at being able to motivate people or tune to their way of thinking). He actually thinks he's getting better at it because of his observation skills but in fact he's not improving at all and I've times again heard people complain that they asked him for explanations and help and he was so useless. It's not that he doesn't want to do it - he has an urge to help and educate others professionally (interesting in a psychopath but actually makes perfect sense) but is really poorly equipped to do it and it may bite him in the ass in future when he has more responsibility as a leader. I don't think he is completely useless though but it will be super difficult for him to learn because he has to a) accept other people's opinions, even if he sees them as inferior and b) tune in to his social environment. Plus his personality is so off putting for others that some people refuse to cooperate with him solely on this basis.

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#15499 - 07/09/13 05:29 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: threetimesstunned]
idiot Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By: threetimesstunned
Question: Have people had the experience of the "mask slipping" and a totally shocking rage emerging in a way it has never emerged before-- raw, naked, and pure death-drive-rage? Is there anything out there to read on psychopathy and rage? I never experienced any physical violence from this one, but only this, something so utterly awful and destructive coming out from way under all of those elaborate "civilizing" personality constructs... It happened in response to my making it clear, for one last time, expressed so convincingly, that I absolutely refuse to take the blame for the relationship having gone down the tubes...


Oh yes! Always in response to some percieved ego-injury. When he couldn't reconcile the feedback he was getting with his grandiose self image he would go into one of those primal rage states, laying on the floor, screaming, breaking stuff - and most eerily - making no sense. His sense of self literally dissolved when he had to face that he wasn't perfect and the centre of the universe and he had to work through it with this deep, mad rage. Often it was delayed a day or two from the actual trigger. I think his subconscious took time to process it. I would see the signs he was working up to one of these mask-slippages in the end.

Worst thing was I ended up feeling like the cold, emotionless one because eventually I had no sympathy left for him and so I found myself just observing his rages with detachment.

ETA:
On the topic of red flags...I eventually noticed the female Psychopath I knew had an uncanny ability to appear when there was any discord or conflict. She never seemed to start it directly but it was like she was feeding off it. She'd stir up trouble under the guise of concern then watch the show with a barely concealed glee. It was much more than just taking an interest in gossip and other peoples lives, she just loved to see people distressed or falling out. Always there to feed off it but never quite at the centre of things.

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#15500 - 07/09/13 06:36 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: idiot]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Idiot,

Quote:
She never seemed to start it directly but it was like she was feeding off it. She'd stir up trouble under the guise of concern then watch the show with a barely concealed glee. It was much more than just taking an interest in gossip and other peoples lives, she just loved to see people distressed or falling out. Always there to feed off it but never quite at the centre of things.


You expressed this very well, they have this really great "skill" of stirring up things and sitting there and smirking while it all blows up. That is what makes them so horrible and sketchy to deal with. The Psychopath in my life was a Corporate one and boy she was really good, she was new to the Department but she got people who knew me for over 15 years at that time to believe all kinds of things, either that or she made the ones who didn't believe it too afraid to speak the truth.

Di

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#15553 - 07/13/13 03:22 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: Dianne E.]
idiot Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 5
Well, thanks!
My female Psychopath was a very toxic person who could prey on most peoples' good nature. Once she knew I wasn't a threat she boasted to me about the two different men she was seeing, who each thought she was loyal. And all the money she had on credit - a lot of it in their names. She seemed to have a new boy every week and move house often, always seemed to live beyond her means. I think most people would have been a nervous wreck living on the edge like she did but she was always calm looking for the next opportunity. Last I heard she moved to another continent on a whim - a very scary person, I'm glad I never made a close friendship with her like I thought I could when we first met.

I think the smart ones are better than us 'normal' folks at reading people and social situations and spotting the angles to exploit. Its like they live entirely or mostly in the social world and have very little going on in their internal world. Well, that's my experience.


Edited by idiot (07/13/13 03:23 PM)

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#15556 - 07/13/13 03:39 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: idiot]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I don't know if better or rather indiscriminate and exploitive. I mean they don't really care of they hook up with the right kind of person, anyone can do as long as they can exploit them. That's why the more attractive ones do better and are so dangerous - they have more prey to choose from. Imagine you would treat every woman who you know is interested in you as a source of whatever you want and not a human being. It's easy to do when you have no conscience but normal people care about others and don't exploit someone's good nature or love. When a normal person sees someone they don't love fall into them they usually do everything to help this person to understand they can't be with you and try not to hurt this person in the same time. A Psychopath will just jump on an occasion.

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#16050 - 09/30/13 12:32 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: Anonymous]
toomuchstuff Offline
member

Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 38
Mine did the shove thing too then laugh when I fell "oh honey..." He held me on the edge of a cliff once, while instructing me to look down, telling me he would hold me keep me from falling as soon as I was safely in the car he asked me if I felt fear and what I was afraid would happen I told him I was afraid he would push me off. He agreed it would have been the perfect crime....I had lots of little accidents in the end he started head banging and biting me. I tried to get an RO. Psychopath turned the hearing into a circus.... I left terrified It's been a week, no revenge YET.

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