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#1616 - 10/25/02 12:35 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
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Uses Language That Conveys Power and Ownership. This was something I picked up on from the beginning of my relationship with the psychopath. It struck me between the eyeballs because J had such an unassuming, laid back persona, in most ways. It was a piece that didn't go with the image. He would always say, "A guy who works for me..." Not "a guy I work with". He would refer to his family's farm in which he had no ownership, at that time, as "my farm". The parks in the district he worked for were "my parks". His co-workers were "my employees" (I mean these were people whose primary relationship to him was friend, but if he referred to them in conversation, to someone who didn't know them, they became "employees". It was so jarring, I would jerk my head around and stare at him when he did it.

Cruel To Animals. The summer I moved in with Psychopath, an old friend of his also came and stayed with us for several months. His dog had puppies while staying with us. One morning I watched Psychopath go out through the garage to his truck in the driveway. As he walked, he kicked the puppies into the air with his steel-toed boots. I was shocked, utterly, flabbergasted. This was a man whose gentleness was (at that time) greater than that of anyone I had ever known. After that day, I saw him kick the puppies many more times. He went out of his way to do it. Big, big red flag. I just didn't know what to make of it. So I put it in the big black hole where I kept everything that didn't make sense.

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#1617 - 10/25/02 01:18 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


Loves Trash. I do not know how universal this is among psychopaths, but I have tripped across this information in a number of cases. I have never seen it documented as a psychopathic trait, but I believe it is one. From the time I began visiting Psychopath's home, I was aware of this. He picked up trash alongside the road, and brought it home. When I moved in with him, he had every bag of trash he had filled in the six months he had occupied the home. One would think he just hadn't gotten around to dumping it, but in later years, when he rented a barn to store products, I actually discovered bags of other people's trash in the barn. He had apparently rescued it from collection. Before he had the barn, he broughr home trash and hid it from me in the weeds. He was terrified of me throwing out his trash. He also created trash. Soon after moving in with him, I attempted to clean the garage. I discovered things, like a jar with thick, sticky oil in it, with a little troll doll stuck in it by its hair. Or filthy pennies in sticky oil. He had dozens of jars with filthy mixtures in them. He got very upset when I tried to throw any of it out. And he didn't even want me to clean the things up. Over the years, he spent thousands of hours in the garage creating these mixtures, often ruining usable things, like stuff he swiped out of the kitchen. I see this as being in line with the psychopathic mind and spirit which revels in worthlessness and ruination.

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#1618 - 10/25/02 04:41 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lies And Embellishes. We all embellish occasionally, but a psychopath does it habitually. This also struck me from our very beginning. Psychopath loved to tell stories. I'll give an example. The first time he told a story, perhaps someone was so frightened by a bear in the woods, she nearly fell in the creek. The second time, she fell in the creek. The third time, she fell in the creek, came up running from the other side, and didn't stop running until she got back to the car. The fourth time, he never saw her, again, and she might STILL be running away from that bear. Initially, while I was struck by the weirdness of him doing this, I chalked it up to the art of story telling. That the entertainment value was what was important to him. But very early on, I began to notice that he lied about other things, too, the size of his family's farm, his job title, his background. Even inconsequential things like whether or not he had fed the cat, locked the door, returned a phone call. Over the years, I came to see that he said was ever most expedient, and best served his interests, no matter how minimally. But in the beginning, it left me scratching my head.

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#1619 - 12/01/02 05:56 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am in a post-p experience which was friendship or I thought it was. and of course i have discussed it more than enough with my friends and friends who are psychologists. at first my friends thought i was exagerating and now they seem they have understood what i have been through. i began to be friend with a highly intelligent academic after i graduated from a master degree. although i was hesitating to his advances like everybody else i fell in the trap. i could write for days without moving from my computer but i have to move on and therefore the redflags become imperative to know. i have to say that for me now i would say that my redflags don t differ from the one i have seen posted but i define them differently. the first one is
I would say that the very first one is MOODINESS. they are moody, they are so nice and flattering one time and then the next they are moody, so you work harder to have in a good mood again..



MIRRORING, that is, the p mirror what you are. in my case, he had seen my work, new with whom i had affinities. and that was the one that kept me going for a long time because i kept telling myself that i got along so well with him and there were very man that was like that.

MOB like behavior: creating allies and putting them against the one that he competes with. his talk were always about the others and how unproductive they were and untrustworthy there were. when you realize he is the #1 not to be trusted, he start quite scarry although i imagine there are more than a few p where he teaches. that said i remember that often while dining the conservation would start by him saying that he didn't trust some people I had said before I didn't trust. to mirror by thinking and to create a gang.he admitted having in gangs when young and now an academic his arm is his head. he kills with it, and i would say that i am sure that not too many people perceive it. he hangs always with young one still naive .

Hate their parents: for months I was trying to find what in the world he had but when i told my friend psychologist that the man had said he hated his parents and therefore he hates children, she said that is very revelent. I should have known better because i had noted that he had commented on how unpleasant it was to be with his parents.

unable to finish his task or follow-up with work. when there is more than one complain around him, it is a sign and it was always someone fault. so it ends up being just promises and nothing else.

lying: i remember having the impression that he was not telling the truth, but i was just telling myself he is so intelligent how could even think of lying to me.i remember he ditch me with my client and certainly came up with at least 10 reasons within an hour, pitying himself and he ask him to lie to the client. that is when of course he started to trash me slowly because i had refused to so.

isolation: if a friend doesn't present you to any of his friends. you are bound for trouble.if i wasn't isolated i would heard of his misbehaviors. i never did until after i told him i never wanted to hear from him again. so according to them they don t see many people, they are always all alone, which is probably true but possibly not i am sure he was seeing and " hooking" others.

Mobile: have moved from one city to another, and have changed jobs quite often. no attachement to anyone. with alot of marriages and failed relationships.

Come back: this is a scary one. they return indeed. even you tell them you are cutting the relationship, they come back from one way or another. a normal person if they see it doesn't work out they move on. but they strike back and the way they did before.

I have to say that at the same time I was enjoying some of it I was also feeling tense and stressed, surely by being constantly dupped and deceived, but probably because deep insidei knew it was all wrong. and now i am scared that i am a magnet for those type of man.

I could write more and much more, i just know that it has been quite devasting experience. i had so much hope in an intellectual exchange and for two years i was trapped in that.


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#1620 - 12/01/02 07:10 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


I justed posted some redflags but forgot some pretty important.
at first i was hesitant to engage in any relatinship was because the p was way too SLICK. he was always dressed with utterly expensive clothes, way too perfect for a professor. most of the people was commenting on that.

COMPULSIVE. i had never seen someone drink so much coffee in a day, one after the other. that is a sign of addiction. probably he was taking drugs and that day he was complementing. i have seen coffee addict but never as bad.

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#1621 - 12/01/02 08:43 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Hopefull -

>> i kept telling myself that i got along so well with him and there were very man that was like that.<<

So glad for your post. I need a daily reminder, that the P. is a P. And your post describes the P. I know pretty well. The P. and I were such great business partners, work was so much fun that I too, held on for a long time. I ignored signs that he was a P.

>>MOB like behavior: creating allies and putting them against the one that he competes with. his talk were always about the others and how unproductive they were and untrustworthy there were. <<

I was mobbed, once I confronted the P., once he knew that I knew what he was about, I became the target. I can't believe I stayed at my job for so long, once the mobbing started (1 1/2 yrs). I kept trying to make things right. Kept trying to make the P. know I was not his enemy, that he didn't need to treat me the way he was. I tried to get back on his side. Can you believe that? He had me right where he wanted me, and I told him so. I believed in communciation, I thought I could reason with him, I thought if I shared my pain with him, he would quit, that he wouldn't want to hurt me so bad. ha!

>>Hate their parents<< I do know the P. hasn't spoke to his mother for who knows how long. He told me a long time ago, that his family didn't like his lifestyle, and he wasn't changing for anybody. That was a redflag long long time ago, but I didn't pay attention. I knew he had a history of blowing people off in the business we are in. I thought I would be different. Thought we had such a good freindship/business partnership, that he wouldn't do that to me. When he did start blowing me off, what made it worst is I knew his sick thinking patterns, I had seen him target others at the office, but not friends. So when I became his target to eliminate, he really dumped it on me, and just about destroyed me. I had never seen such evilness come out of him. I couldn't believe that his current targets of charm, etc, would side up with him against me. One day they will know the truth, and they will pay the price. Now they are getting a daily doze of everything they could possibly want, emotionally.

>>unable to finish his task or follow-up with work. lying, Come back<<
the P. also fit these to a T. He was so busy planning his next move in the game he plays, that he had a hard time finishing any task. He is very intelligent, and could really make some good money, if his P. behaviors didn't get in the way. Lying - so sneaky, underhanded. Comeback - I am always amazed that the P. still wants to talk to me, after everything I have said to him. I think it was Tim Fields book "Bullying Insight" that said that they will try to stay your friend, or at least make it look like they are your friend, so that others won't know the extent of the bullying, and won't think he is the reason I am no longer at the office. I am still caught up in the games, but on a limited basis. One day, as I get stronger, I will break off all contact with the P. I have tried to go cold turkey and can't, he is my drug. And I am addicted.

Thanks for posting!
Betterway

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#1622 - 12/01/02 09:01 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful!

>>I have to say that at the same time I was enjoying some of it I was also feeling tense and stressed, surely by being constantly dupped and deceived, but probably because deep insidei knew it was all wrong. and now i am scared that i am a magnet for those type of man. <<

The "feeling tense and stressed". . .I think above all this is the biggest tattletell sign you are in the presense of a P. It is VERY DIFFICULT if not impossible to RELAX. Tension is always high. Even if they are projecting an "unpreturbed" cool personna, it does not "feel" comfortable. It always took me 15 minutes to a half hour to relax around P (no one else like that) just P.

Yes. . .it is enjoyable. . .but only for a short while (but we didn't know that then). :-)

We are learning. We won't always be P magnets, hopeful!
finished

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#1623 - 12/02/02 10:13 AM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,
I was reading back through the "red flag" posts. I read your post dated 10/23 and of course you describe the P. I know. Most of the red flags were the same for me. The warnings from others, the business luncheons, the coaching, etc. etc. He coached me on how to talk to clients, office management, how to dress, how to get my hair cut, etc. Trying to make me out to be the person he wanted me to be. He did teach me alot about business, he was very smart. But also I know what you mean about shady business pratices. I was such the opposite. I really like your postings. Gotta run, got some work to do. bye for now, betterway

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#1624 - 12/02/02 03:13 PM Re: Red Flags
Anonymous
Unregistered


I forgot but the same day that he said that he hated his parents he also said that he had some history of juvenile delinquency and he was not qualified for all the jobs he had ever gotten. all that info on one day made me realize that he was without doubts a sociopath.

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#1625 - 12/02/02 04:27 PM Re: Red Flags
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hello hopefull, welcome to the forum.

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