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#11163 - 05/28/11 05:23 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: Anonymous]
gullablegull Offline
member

Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 4
These psychos are all the same. You have a learned an important lesson at an early age. That is the good side of it, if there is a good side.
Mine is/was a predator. He began by endearing himself to my young children. In my opinion, everyone whom loved children was a good person! NOT!
My white knight in shining armor, that saved me and my children from verbal and physical abuse from the first husband..........
whom had no children of his own, and loved us so much??? We gave him purpose?? NOT! His purpose was to take and covet what someone else had,
marry me, then begin the emotional abuse, the financial humiliation, the sexual withholdings, the serious mood swings, the silent punishments when I had disappointed him (like ordering pizza once a week for the kids?)
Once he left me for another married woman of 25 yrs with 2 kids, broke up her marriage, encouraged her also to take no settlement for "he wanted to take care of her and protect her",(rerun) then he dumped her four months later.
I now fight multiple counts of fraud, (including a fraudulent prenup),massive joint debts, CPTSD, his lack of complying with the law and divorce, and helplessly wondering how I can take care of my children since I stayed home as insisted by both husband 1 and 2? I'm 53 yrs old with no higher education.......................have been abused my whole life.......am magnetic to maniacs I have resolved. My prince is a frog. If it's "too good to be true", trust me , it's not true.
The whole time he's being "nice" to you, he's trashing you behind your back, screwing around, and waiting with great anticipation the look on your face when he tells you it's over, that "you're not his problem ". That's their jolly. That my dear, is evil. Leviathan, Baal, Beezlebub..........and there are tons of them out there! What surprises me most, is their enablers..........a man with money and power can get away with anything, and does......................
for he's surrounded by greedy enablers. I too was only a servant, worn and tired from all the "man" work I did to try to make him happy..........
never seeing the TRUTH until months after he was gone. Now that we've been abandoned, we are treated like lepers...all very sad, for people do not want to see or hear the truth. Psychopath, is a word that is politically incorrect.............until it happens to you.

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#11260 - 06/21/11 10:57 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: Dianne E.]
gullablegull Offline
member

Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 4
Thank you Diane. At this time, I am unable to begin my own thread, but would like to in the near future. Ex has taken me off our email account and changed the password. I can't access the email address I've had since 1996. Long before I knew him.
It is predictable really, these little things. He knows what will cause me suffering, and you can expect him to do it, whatever it is, no matter how large or small. He knew I had son's college account on there with urgent info, that I was arranging for movers, and he is now getting MY emails!
He just keeps picking at bones like an ole buzzard. That's what he loves........birds of prey.

I saw a neuropsych last week. Though I kept forgetting vital parts of the story and going back to it, she seemed to think I would be fine.
Everyone says that. "You will be fine. You're so strong.".....but I'm not fine, and I'm not strong. This marriage has taken everything I liked about me away.
I was genuine, trusting, loyal, hardworking, tolerant..........for I thought it was true love. I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes.....how he was borrowing money, lying to me about everything and everyone........and the worst part of all, is he's gotten away with it. Totally gotten away with it.

Once you get that close to evil, it changes you. It robs you of your purity, your innocence, your values and yes, even your identity.
I feel as hollow as can be. Afraid to "feel" anything, but still shedding tears on a daily basis. In many ways, he did kill me...I'm still breathing is all.

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#11261 - 06/21/11 01:11 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: gullablegull]
newlife Offline
member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 7
Hi dear,
You will be allright. Your tears are healing you. Through your tears, your body and your soul is being cleansed from the poison of the psychopath. Soon, you will be happy and vibrant and renewed. I've been in your shoes, I know.
Romans 8:31
"What can we say about all of this? If God is for us, who can be against us?"

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#11535 - 08/06/11 05:37 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: newlife]
anonymousone Offline
member

Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 30
I went through some old emails. Once he shared this random story about how he "dealt" with a friend of his who was distracting him as he was "helping" 2 of his female room mates with preparing for a job interview. He described to me how he knew exactly how to humiliate and shut his friend up. I can tell you, he intimidated the hell out of this other guy and did humiliate him in front of the others. I didn't realise at the time, but I question now whether his friend was actually being distracting, or rather that he was "hogging" the limelight.

He said to me that telling me this story was a way to take down his defenses and be completely transparent with me. He told me he had told nobody else about his insight into people and the way he may use that to his advantage sometimes, and that I shouldn't be worried he has an advantage because he can see through people. And wouldn't hurt me. The eeriest thing was that I never noticed until now, but he ended the email joking "I fully realise you may think i'm a crazy psychopath".

Red flags were how he talked to his "friend", using humiliation and intimidation. That he believes he has great insight into peoples weaknesses because he's very watchful (he's observant and smart in a predatory way) and stores them to use at a future point when necessary. He's ruthless when he wants to get his own way. He knows exactly how to use tone of voice and gestures to silence somebody else. He always has to be seen as a hero to somebody (those two girls) and doesn't mind if he comes off as a devil to his target, and uses that as an excuse. That he never mentioned feeling any remorse for how he treated his friend, didn't bother to mention his reaction to his friend walking away and shutting himself in his room, because I assume he felt completely justified. That he will feign transparency and honesty to see how I would react to intimidating behaviour. That he joked about being a psychopath, I assume it was a joke, there was no :Psychopath at the end of his comment about me thinking he was a psychopath. That he wanted to tell me about his justified and "protective" behaviour (he claimed to be protecting those two girls) as covert threat "this is what I could do to a person" i.e. you're next. And he indeed has used those skills against me.

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#11536 - 08/06/11 05:55 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: anonymousone]
anonymousone Offline
member

Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 30
Before he knew of me, he had strong beliefs about environmental and animal rights.

He couldn't understand vegetarianism or environmentalism and was very against these causes. He couldn't understand why animals could have rights (lacks empathy). And found it rediculous anyone should concentrate on helping animals when there were plenty of people who need help. He felt that being vegan was hypocritical and essentially silly. Not a bad attitude in itself, but for someone who went to great lengths to assure me he was caring, he really could not exercise any empathy for people who saw things differently to him, and couldn't seem to apply that empathy understanding the other. Oh but he was very very good at watching people and figuring out what makes them tick. Very very good at this.

However, when he met me, he of course already knew that I was sensitive to these issues and had very liberal values. Suddenly he started being very passionate about different causes. I knew at the time it seemed like a bit of an act, but I ignored that feeling in my gut when I saw his original attitudes to such causes. It was funny that he'd often make light of the people around him who were supposedly insensitive.

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#11537 - 08/06/11 07:48 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: anonymousone]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi, I have a couple of observations, I am guessing when you were first in contact with him that he showed interest and "listened" to your views, then he adapted them for awhile then started to poke fun at you for them, ie. cruelty to animals and your views?

I would venture to guess his "friend" was probably him, if there was a bully in the room it was more than likely him.

Yes they are very skilled at observing and soaking up information in the beginning to turn like a knife later, they have an uncanny way of those skills. I suspect when he is older he will be quite a piece of work as he starts through life learning and modeling the behavior of "real" people. With predators, everyone is fair game in their minds. They have to suck you in by being nice and attentive in the beginning, the more sophisticated they become the slicker the act.

Count your blessings you are young and will now have psychodar. It is wonderful you are taking the time to explore what hit you and be able to reflect and write about it, writing helps to see things more clearly many times.

If you are involved in an online group that involves him, I would leave the group, anything you say or do will get back to him, not that the others would do it in a bad way but they are good at getting information out of innocent people. You also have no reason to try to explain to people because likely they won't get it since they see the other side of him and he will make you out to be the crazy one in the room, safest bet is to exist stage left;)

Di

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#11538 - 08/07/11 06:00 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: Dianne E.]
anonymousone Offline
member

Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Hi, I have a couple of observations, I am guessing when you were first in contact with him that he showed interest and "listened" to your views, then he adapted them for awhile then started to poke fun at you for them, ie. cruelty to animals and your views?

I would venture to guess his "friend" was probably him, if there was a bully in the room it was more than likely him.

Yes they are very skilled at observing and soaking up information in the beginning to turn like a knife later, they have an uncanny way of those skills. I suspect when he is older he will be quite a piece of work as he starts through life learning and modeling the behavior of "real" people. With predators, everyone is fair game in their minds. They have to suck you in by being nice and attentive in the beginning, the more sophisticated they become the slicker the act.

Count your blessings you are young and will now have psychodar. It is wonderful you are taking the time to explore what hit you and be able to reflect and write about it, writing helps to see things more clearly many times.

If you are involved in an online group that involves him, I would leave the group, anything you say or do will get back to him, not that the others would do it in a bad way but they are good at getting information out of innocent people. You also have no reason to try to explain to people because likely they won't get it since they see the other side of him and he will make you out to be the crazy one in the room, safest bet is to exist stage left;)

Di


Thank you Di.

I actually went through some of his older posts on the forum before he knew of me recently, and that's where I saw his real attitudes. He changed a lot at the time when I started coming into his focus. I can even pin point roughly the month in which he made the switch between 'cool, suave, highly confident guy' to 'guy who amazingly starts mirroring me more and more' before he even contacted me. I know he was watching me for a good few months before he contacted me. The good thing about the internet, is you can track how much people change and when. I was incredibly lucky to have that to gauge how much he altered himself to become "perfect" for me. There were a few times were he openly made provocative comments to me about things he knew I valued though.

I never even thought about "his friend" being him... but you are probably right. This guy has the capacity to talk your ear off on any subject for any length of time. He used to use stories about the 'bad behaviour' of others to show how he handled them and was in turn, the "good guy". Other times he told stories about being really mean to other people (being violent during basketball games without care, or tricking people into believing things).

I had to retire all of my accounts online he knew of, because he was reading every single word I wrote, and using it to mount an attack. He knew my privacy was important and that stalking would make me scared (but a victim of him, ppsh no way!). I grew suspicious he was going to attempt to turn a few people against me as he was making public statements about me (without referencing me of course, but people knew who he was talking about).

The good thing about meeting these people online is that you have some degree of protection. Bad thing is, they can watch you and get much more information out of you without even talking to you and it's much harder to consult your gut feelings.

I hope some of my experiences can help someone in the future who stumbles across this site, who have come across a psychopath online, and the unique process they have of finding and hooking in, a target. It's much easier to come off as a good person, when the person on the other side can't see you acting with other people, or can't read your body language in a natural setting. I would advise anyone to not indulge in vulnerabilities online (especially on online forums unless the forum has special protections and staunch moderation), and to never let romantic feelings cloud your sense of judgment (fantasies occur much more online). It is very very easy to trick a person online, and the dis-inhibition effect probably amplifies the psychopaths tendency to not feel a sense of guilt. A psychopath + the internet = total disinhibition.

It's also easier to engage in fooling with multiple people at a time. Also, I think long distance relationships can foster a sense of loyalty much more because there's more of an expectation of faithfulness when both of you are far away. The distance creates immense vulnerabilities, and people share much more of themselves online than offline early on (the key thing). If you move locations to be in a relationship with a psychopath, it's much easier to isolate you too.

There are unique things you need to be aware of when coming across dangerous people online. Especially if you are naive and trusting. I have learned that there is absolutely no harm in not trusting anyone online until they absolutely prove theirself to you. The guy I knew did try to prove himself, but what you need to do is to ignore all their words, and just look at their actions as best you can. And if you have any doubt at all, don't -ever- ignore it.

Thank you so much for the advice Di.

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#11539 - 08/07/11 06:04 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: anonymousone]
anonymousone Offline
member

Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 30
Here is an article from psychologicalharresment.com about the tactics of psychological manipulation. It is the most comprehensive list I have seen and it may not just be useful for spotting and labeling the tactics of psychopaths, but spotting tactics of emotionally unhealthy people in general:

psychological manipulation

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#11540 - 08/07/11 12:57 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: anonymousone]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Thanks so much for sharing with such openness your online experience. It has been on my mind for many years and actually I see the Internet as a double edged sword if one doesn't carefully tread their way through life. It takes away our visual and voice clues from who we are truly dealing with and wipes out much of the red flag portion of how to evaluate who we are in contact with, by reading your story, you did have that instinct there which is a great thing. Not everyone gets it in the perspective that you did and can get too far down the road before turning back.

As a society I have concerns over all the social networking, when did it stop being okay to just sit and read a book, or walk your dog without having to be on your cell phone or constantly checking for messages from really a group of strangers via text etc. My concern is the predatory aspect of what the Internet has allowed to blossom. You used to know the guy down the street was a nut case because you saw him in person and your parents told you to stay away.

Now that the visual and audio aspect is away people can be whoever they dream to be in their own private world. No one really knows who they are and now that the "in person" aspect has been pushing people behind their computers we as a society seem to be disconnecting while we think we are "connecting", people wear their followings on twitter as some badge of honor or award. Do we really care to know that someone got their nails done that day? Is it that important that we can't remove that clutter from our minds and go have a cup of coffee and sit and think? Does all this information help our minds or keep it clear so we can spot the predators out there. Is all of it bad, of course not, see the wars around the world and you can see the good side how people in very compromised violent dictator ruled countries can get the message out to the rest of us, that is a very good thing.

The Internet is a powerful tool, the key in how we use it. If I don't want to be in contact with the whacko down the street who everyone knows is a predator, why do people trust and bond online with the very same type of person, simple answer because you don't have a visual idea or knowledge from your neighbors the person is a nutcase or worse a Psychopath. It is indeed the predator highway, imo. I think it is good if you find a discussion forum that interests you that is great, I am interested in a variety of topics and am always searching for answers, but if our lives are so empty that we can only rely on the Internet for friends then we are treading into that area of disconnect and becoming vulnerable to the predators out there. Over the years I have been amazed at the wide variety of members who have crossed though our doors and the types of places they have met Psychopaths. They are predators, they know where to troll, they know how to be skilled at getting people to think they can be trusted in real life and the Internet really can give them a huge lift in the lives they can destroy and never having to see them in person.

You walked away very wisely but the predatory process is the same online, our best and our only defense when all the visuals etc. are taken away and that is our instincts. Without time and space and instead being in a constant state of a disconnected world we many times will brush off our instincts. Our instincts are the one thing I can say is the biggest turn in the road that keeps us on that path with a predator is when that first red flag, our instinct gets brushed to the side. Nice people want to see the best so it is a natural thing to think we really probably didn't understand something or the other person didn't really mean that and if questioned just accept their explanation.
Following our instincts and catching those red flags is a tough process.

No one from what I can tell who has ever been a victim did anything wrong, they aren't stupid, they are quite the opposite, the kind people who care a lot and want to help others that is the type of person who predators/Psychopaths target.

By listening to our instincts and tuning out the clutter we can hear our instincts and spend the time reflecting on them and not lead our lives in a constant spin. Psychopaths when they are after a victim want you to be in a spin so that ah-ha moment doesn't get your attention. Go for a drive and turn your cell phone off, find a quiet place to sit and read or just sit and think.

You don't have to take out a calculator but I am much older than you are;) and was around and had a cell phone when they first came out when they cost 3K and a PC the minute they were available at the time because my career was doing consulting in Silicon Valley. I see a very troubling issue with the predatory nature side of the Internet. It can be a bumpy road or a very good tool to find out interesting things, but finding friends etc. can be a bit tricky with all these "social" networking avenues. Instincts and boundaries are the best way we can protect ourselves. We just need to listen to that small voice because it is there telling us something we need to pay attention to.

Thanks for the link, it is very informative and I'll make sure and put it in the Resource Section.

Di

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#11542 - 08/08/11 02:28 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: Dianne E.]
skybluepaint Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 100
"By listening to our instincts and tuning out the clutter we can hear our instincts and spend the time reflecting on them and not lead our lives in a constant spin. Psychopaths when they are after a victim want you to be in a spin so that ah-ha moment doesn't get your attention."

I agree, but I don't know how one avoids getting spun by a psychopath unless you are aware what a psychopath is prior to meeting one. Most people don't know, until it is too late. I think of that first month with the psychopath, being her new "friend" and "counselor". If any friend had told me the things she did, I probably would've objectively told them that I thought they were kind of messed up. But, with her performance, the forlorn lost child help me look, that intense gaze of predatorial need, I ate up everything she said and spat it back at her, never fully digesting it. In other words, I told her everything she wanted to hear. She told me her professor was mean, I resounded that ten fold. Yet, if I'd been objective and had digested what she had said, I would've agreed with the professor's advice. She acted heartbroken that a high school teacher hadn't liked her back. I felt sorry for her and comforted her. And she is a teacher now!! I should've been saying, "Well, as a teacher, do you think it is ok for teachers to have sex with students?" Then, why would you think your teacher should have had sex with you?! I think most people who fall for psychopaths get caught up in wanting to help save them. In other words, as you said, they are good people. But they aren't objective people. The reason I think they can't be objective is because there is some vulnerability in them that makes them vulnerable to the advances of the psychopath. So, while I think that listening to your instincts is important, instincts alone can't always be trusted. Empathy is an instinct. I did feel a big conflict between fear, that there was something wrong with this person and I needed to run away, and empathy, wanting to help, stop her tears and cries for help. Therefore, I think the real solution is examining and knowing your own weaknesses and vulnerabilities and how those might be used by someone else.

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