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#8875 - 11/21/09 02:32 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: hellandback]
GiftOfFear Offline

Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 2
My red flags:

1. while we were dating he told me that he didn't know anyone smarter than him. I laughed it off and figured he was trying to impress me.
2. before marrying him, his roommate actually gave me a warning - said that 'john is not the angel he wants everyone to believe'. I thought perhaps the roommate was jealous.
3. we took a questionnaire before getting married and I was actually warned against what he said: "I argue to win". I couldn't see the implication of that statement then.
4. gave me the silent treatment often
5. said I was imagining things when I'd ask him about something
6. also told me to 'get over it'
7. never apologized for anything, nor said please. I guess to do so was to show weakness.
8. soon after we were married I overheard him tell his brother "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" referring to me
9. he'd display a large wad of cash in front of people when paying for things
10. he perpetrated a con against a customer, and said if they were stupid enough to fall for it then they deserved it
11. liked to teach people lessons
12. also liked to tell people how to do their jobs (e.g. post office personnel, teachers, etc.)
13. very much into porn; even purchased a rubber doll and I found out. How is that for ultimate control?
14. considers himself a great leader. He confuses 'leadership' with 'abusive controller'.
15. obssessed with money
16. always talked about how 'poor' he was
17. he changed careers and became a high school teacher. My gut feeling is this is because he can lord over the classroom and secondarily puts him in contact with the high school girls. He also joined the NEA (teacher's union) because they would pay for a lawyer if he ever got accused of sexual molestation. Now why would he be afraid of that? He's always HATED unions.
18. he is a misogynist (one who hates women), homophobe, and anti-semite
19. many more!

#8876 - 11/21/09 04:02 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: GiftOfFear]

Hello GiftofFear

Reading through your list I can see you have a very troubled relationship, do you think your husband has psychopathic tendencies? Are you still together?

Would you like to tell us a bit more about this man and why you have visited the forum? If there is anything you would like to discuss we would be happy to talk to you. There is a lot of information in the resources section if you are looking for information. If there is anything we can help you find please let us know.

Sometimes it's just good to write about how you are feeling and know someone is listening.


#8892 - 12/10/09 10:38 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: hellandback]
On My Own Again Offline

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 64
hey, hellandback:

From my ex-husband, I recognize a number of the red flags on your list ... I've grouped them in a way that makes sense to me and compared your comment's to Dr. Hare's Checklist (in italics). The pattern is clear.

CHARM. Unusually attractive and charming on the first couple of dates. Wants to marry/move in immediately.

Here's what Dr. Hare says about this.
1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM—the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Their charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything.

POWER/SEX (same thing in his mind). Likes power. Has to have all the best gadgets (a $15,000?! exercise machine!!!) Has to be right and always knows best. Wants rampant sex all the time anyplace, anywhere. Wants to control your sexual response. Gives you an STD the first time you have sex, denies being the carrier and then blames you for giving it to him! No friends (no male ones, at any rate, and the female "friends" are just sex partners).

Here's what Dr. Hare says.
9. NEED FOR STIMULATION, PRONE TO BOREDOM—an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation. Take chances, do things that are risky. Get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
12. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR—a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners. Maintenance of several relationships at the same time. Taking great pride in discussing sexual exploits or conquests.
19. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS—a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship. Inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

FAMILY. Poor/non-existent relations with his/her family. Describes family as pedophiles (brother), abusers/alcoholics (all the cousins). Cruel/indifferent to animals and generally indifferent to offspring, except when he can boast on them to "make points" with a new target.

Here's what Dr. Hare says.
5. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT—a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims. Tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate and coldhearted. Usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.
6. SHALLOW AFFECT—emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings. Interpersonal coldness, despite open gregariousness (superficial charm).
7. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY—a lack of feelings toward people in general. Cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

JOB. Career victim (and it's everyone else's fault). Owes large amounts of money--including to the IRS!!! Boasts/lies about his job skills, and his competence-listening to him. you'd think he's Mr. Megabucks, but he's broke broke broke.

Here's what Dr. Hare says.
2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH—a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth. Self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart.
10. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE—an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.
13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS—an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals. Nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.
14. IMPULSIVITY—the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning. Inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges. Doesn’t consider the consequences of his/her decisions. Foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, reckless.
15. IRRESPONSIBILITY—repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

8. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS—a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions. Low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

COMMUNICATION. Unusually ambiguous speech. Distorts what you say and repeats it back to you. At times, imitates "real" people and goes through the motions of being "generous" or "thoughtful" but doesn't really get how to do it because he has no conscience, no heart, no remorse, no understanding of other people's feelings.

Here's what Dr. Hare says.
3. PATHOLOGICAL LYING—can be moderate or high. In moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever. In extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.
4. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVE—the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain. Distinguished from pathological lying by the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present. Lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.
11. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS—expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse. Inadequate control of anger and temper.

Hope this is of some help.
On My Own Again

#9651 - 04/05/10 03:09 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: weakness]
On My Own Again Offline

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 64
Hi, Weakness:

Try this: say "No."

Try it on your own first, just to see how it feels. In your car with the windows rolled up, or in your house alone: "No. No!! No!!!" Say it over and over again until you learn how to do it.

Then try it on your ex-boyfriend. "No." That's all you need to say - you don't need to talk on and on and make explanations. Just say "No" and walk away into your new life.

You can do it. I know you can. Let us know how it goes.

PS: think about changing your name to "Strength." or, "Wonder Woman" or, "Woman with the Strength and Power to Say NO!"
On My Own Again

#9874 - 07/15/10 03:40 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: Anonymous]
ghdfans2010 Offline

Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 2
I feel like I am reading about my own experience with the Psychopath which was a friendship basis. Boy oh boy, how many times did our family get the "switcharoo with commitments and plans".

Edited by Dianne E. (07/15/10 01:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Hi, we try to discourage pictures for protection puposes for our members.

#9875 - 07/15/10 01:50 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: ghdfans2010]
Dianne E. Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
Hi ghdfans2010, welcome to the forum.

If you are up to and it won't cause you any distress would you be comfortable listing some of the red flags you have encountered. It always helps others not feel alone and maybe you might have a flag that hasn't been posted.


#9929 - 08/13/10 12:51 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: Anonymous]
He_won't_go_away Offline

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 3
Red Flags oh were there a lot.

First I suppose I should give a brief background summary. I was with my ex(who I thouroghly believe but without him being diagnosed is a Psychopath) for 6 years. During that time we fought non stop. When I got with him I was very independent in fact I had sworn off having boyfriends all together, I had a strict friends with benefits attitude and I told him that right from the git. Surprise surprise I ended up in a serious relationship with him. In fact the longest relationship I've ever been in. See I was never one to settle if I didn't like something that was going on in a relationship I didn't waste time seeing how it played out. But for some reason it was different with him. He had so much charisma.

Granted we were like polar opposites, and at first he thought that was awesome. He said he loved my independence, loved how bullheaded and full of life I was, that I was my own person and didn't take crap from anyone. After oh probably a month and a half of seeing each other he move me in. Of course the way he did this was by saying your always here anyway you may as well admit you live here. Of course the reason I was there so much was because I gave him rides to and from work, it just seemed like the right thing to do since we worked together anyway. It seemed to make sense at the time even though I had my own place and it was bigger than his studio apartment. It was all down hill from there.

We fought constantly mainly because I wouldn't back down. Back then I just attributed it to the fact that we were both just two stubborn people. Well I lost that job and so did he because we were dating and don't you know the bosses daughter wanted him oh so bad. We lost the apartment, and ended up moving in with his aunt. Now by this time he was always ranting about how much he hated my family and every time I would talk to any of them let alone go see one I would here about it for days and get attitude. Not to mention he had began throwing things I had told him about my past in my fast constantly. Now the changes that were taking place were really starting to make me mad at that by this time, but for some reason I didn't leave like I normally would have.

I ended up not associating with anyone after a while that I had known before I met him cause if I did he would talk crap about how bad my previous life was even though I didn't see anything wrong with it. It got where his family were the only people I could talk to with out catching crap and they were just as bad as him. So I would not only have to defend myself against him but against his family also and the things he'd twisted and said to them about me. Cause don't ya know he was always the victim. Every girl he had ever been with had done him wrong, everyone he ever new had done him wrong, including his family which he manipulated to a tee also, especially his mom. Every time I would try to leave him which was a quite often the first few years something would happen and I'd be the bad guy. He even kidnapped my cat one time when I tried to leave him and ran off with her, knowing how much I loved her because I had had her for years before I met him. Later he would joke about that like it was a sign of affection.

Eventually he started sending his family after me when I would leave and they would tear me down until I went back. Eventually I quit hanging up on his mom and quit trying to leave. Inside I hated everything about him but I just couldn't seem to get away. Well the last time I tried to leave I managed to stay gone for 3 days and also forgot to bring my birth control with me, so when I went back after days of him calling my grandmothers house constantly crying, we made up in the normal way and I ended up pregnant. I cried right in the doctors office when I found out. Well he treated me way worse after I was pregnant, he new he had more control. at 22 weeks we found out that the baby had no internal organs except for under developed lungs and almost no amniotic fluid.

The doctors said that I could carry the baby until 9 months but that once it was out of the womb it would die so they said I should have labor induced. After 4 days in the hospital I finally delivered our son. My ex was great during this time so supportive and right by my side. We bonded or so I thought after this but really he just preyed on my weakness. about 6 months after this happened I was so depressed I new I needed to seek help. I went to a doctor that was within walking distance from our apartment and he ended up saying I was bi-polar and prescribing me depacote and celexa. The ex loved this now I was labeled crazy he started telling me how crazy I was every chance he got any time I had a problem with anything I was crazy.

I stopped taking the drugs a few months later because they made me feel like crap and I was angry because I new I wasn't crazy, I had never had any problems before this instance. That infuriated my ex he was so mad that I had stopped taking the medication. He started belittling me way more than before and throwing things in my face. He started or at least I started noticing that he would say I had said things that didn't even sound like my line of thinknig, things that went completly against my value systems and when I would say there was no way he would get angry and start ranting and downing me until

I would get mad enough to loose my temper. Now I forgot to tell you guys that during that about year after we got together my liscense got suspended because of a .09 BAC while driving that i had recieved shortly before I met him. I was unable to pay my drivers responsibility fee because my money became his money and if I neeed anything whether it be blue jeans or makeup or whatnot he through temperfits. So because of not paying the fines I lost my liscense and he started using my car. We ended up having to put it in his moms name even though I had bought and paid for it so that it would be legal and I told him just because your driving it it's still my car I'm the one that paid on it for 3 years before I met you. Well that idea went out the window and even his mom started getting in on it saying that it was in her name so it wasn't my car anymore. And this whole time I couldn't get my license back because I couldn't pay the fines. not to mention any job I got he made me loose shortly after one way or another.

But getting back on track. A year almost to the day of loosing our baby I got pregnant again, I was so happy because I felt the need to have a living baby. as soon as we got pregnant he got super mean again. This time when I delivered a healthy live baby he was horrible in the hospital, even telling me to shut up while I was in labor. He had a bunch of his friends in the hospital room while I was in labor and they were trying to watch tv. His friends were there for me more than him..he just kept yelling at me. It didn't get any better after that.

I was seriously starting to think i was insane by the fourth year of our relationship and he didn't let me forget that I was messed up. He told everyone we met that I was a he was trying to get sympathy votes. Finally I went to a therapist because I new something was wrong but at the same time I really felt crazy. She said that she thought he was gas lighting me..that it seemed to her like he was trying to make me think I was crazy. my dumb but confronted him on it and after that I wasn't allowed to see her anymore. But he still wanted me to get back on medication. about a month later I ended up going to another doctor when I told him that I thought that he was trying to make me think I was crazy this doctor diagnosed me as bipolar with a psychotic disorder because I thought the person closest to me was trying to harm me.

He loaded me up on a bunch of drugs. an anti-psychotic, a mood stabilizer, and an anti-depressant, and then something to counteract the side effects of the anti-psychotic. Well these ended up giving me involuntary muscle spasms, my arm and fingers and eye would move on there own. I told the ex that something was wrong and he got mad every time, not caring one bit about my well being. He insisted I keep taking them and threw massive fits every time I wanted to stop. One day I was in the kitchen and my arm started going in and out at the elbow, then my leg started shaking and I fell to the floor, shaking I could feel the my body moving but I couldn't stop it.

When it ended I crawled to the living room and cried telling him what happened although it seems like he would have seen it because it was an open doorway and the couch was right in view of the sink. He told me I was imagining things. I said there is no way I am taking these anymore. I went back to the doctor that prescribed them and he tried giving me something else to ad to it and didn't really even acknowledge what I said had happened. I haven't taken a pill since. Shortly after this I finally gave in he had been trying to get me to move to Florida where he grew up and his dad's side of the family lived since we had met but I never would because there as no way I was moving out of state with a man. I figured things were so bad here and maybe if I just did what he wanted it would get better.

Well that was only got worse once he got me completely away from everything I new. 6 months after moving there I packed up my daughter and got on an airplane while he was at work and came home. Now things are great I have an awesome supportive old man, a great job, and I go to college. But he still won't go away. He calls all the time threatening this or that and trying to get in my head. I don't answer is calls but just the voice mails make me physically sick, just hearing his voice makes my head get all confused and my insides shake and I start questioning what I'm thinking and whether he is right. It's funny how that works because even though I know what is going on I can't completely stop it.

I haven't filed for custody because I don't want him to get visitation, I can't take the chance of him doing this to my daughter. Every lawyer I have talked to has acted like I was a bad person for not wanting him to see her. And even though it's hard I can't bring myself to change the phone # because then I won't have anyway of seeing an attack's been a year now and I almost feel normal again except when he calls it throws me back into the weirdness. but I've gotten where can pick out the manipulation in his messages.

I just can't seem to stop the way they make me feel. It's weird and scary all at the same time that someone can be so damaging to another human. I hope that I've summarized this to the point that you can all see the basics. I've omitted a lot yet it's still a super long post. sorry all

#9930 - 08/13/10 06:20 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: He_won't_go_away]
bluebird Offline

Registered: 06/19/10
Posts: 21
Wow, HeWon'tGoAway,

You are incredibly strong to have survived this. And you are clearly not crazy. You told your story so coherently, with so much clarity, much more so than I've been able to do. No, they don't seem to go away, sigh. Fortunately for you, you're no longer in his state. In my situation he lives a few miles away, so I'm working on ways to keep him out of my head in spite of all he does to maintain contact and control. It's unbelievable how so many professionals either don't care, don't get it, or are psychopaths themselves. It's amazing that you found the courage to take your child and run in spite of all that this person did to diminish you.

Please take good care of yourself and stay safe. You have survived. Now it's time to reclaim your birthright for a happy, healthy life. No one can ever take that away from you again.


#9932 - 08/13/10 11:19 AM Re: Red Flags [Re: bluebird]
He_won't_go_away Offline

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 3
Thank you bluebird,

I'm sorry for what your going through and the close proximity is aweful..glad to here your standing your ground though.

He keeps threatening to come back here and try to take her away from me, but I know he can't do it because I'm not a bad mother. I think it's just threats to try and get inside my head again..but still leaves the question of will he stop threatening and really act one of these times. right now I am trying to get together as good of a case as possible just in case he does. I do not want him to get any form of visitation because he is so harmful and manipulative. I figure if I save up enough to get a good size retainer for a qualified lawyer, and get a list of psychologist that are credible in diagnosing psychopathy put together, then if he does try to take it to court then maybe I can request that he be given the Hare test. It doesn't seem like a bad request, I just hope the courts will see it that way. And hopefully if the doctor does his job correctly and does diagnose him with psychopathy then he will never be able to get his hands on my daughter. It may be wishful thinking but at this moment it's all I've got.

#9934 - 08/13/10 12:32 PM Re: Red Flags [Re: He_won't_go_away]
Violet Offline

Registered: 07/08/10
Posts: 105

I feel your pain. Having a child with a Psychopath is so complicated. I also ask myself that same question, " will he stop threatening and act one of these times"? How much assertion can you practice to keep yourself safe, without pushing him over the edge?

Unfortunately, the courts are so saturated with scum. There are so many lying, vindictive parents when it comes to custody and visitation, that it is really hard to explain to them what you are dealing with. So many parents are going to court calling each other crazy, that our situation with a real Psychopath is not taken seriously. I know this from experience, it really sucks how the system is set up.

You are doing the right thing by saving up for a lawyer. There are so many cards to be played when dealing with a Psychopath that it takes an expert to put it all together in language that a judge can understand. Start consulting now. Do not give a second thought to any attorney that doubts your decision to keep your daughter away from him. A good attorney will not only agree with your decision that he is unsafe, but will be willing to confidently defend you as well.

Legal representation is a dime a dozen. You may need to go through many consultations before you find your advocate. Bring up the term psychopath in your initial consulatations. Any attorney that is familiar with defending against this dangerous personality disorder will immediately have a look of understanding and concern when you mention it. If there is no familiarity (or expertise if possible) with pyschopathy, then it is not the right attorney for you. Psychopathy is hard enough to understand, even harder to explain to a judge. The right attorney can do this for you.

My advice is do not attempt to defend yourself in any legal matters. The court system is simply not familiar with psychopathy in relation to custody matters. Plus these Psychopath's are master manipulaters well qualified to run their BS with the judge as well. While you are saving up for an attorney, start a log. Write down as many details and dates that you can recall about your relationship with him, and his relationship with your daughter. You will need to present this to your attorney who will sort through and decide what is most relevant to present to the court.

Keep a log of the threats and dates that you can remember. A rough idea of the dates is good enough. Then change your number as soon as possible. You are putting yourself in more danger by maintaining contact with him. Even an opportunity to leave you a voicemail is too much. You can not allow him to keep contacting you and threatening you. The NO Contact thing is soooo important. It is key to your safety, and your sanity.

You mentioned that you don't want to change your number because then you will have no idea when an attack is coming. If he was planning some sort of an attack, I am sure he was not going to give you the heads up before hand anyway. You can not live your life in fear, living states away, wondering if or when he is going to snap. A life of fear is no life at all. Change your phone number. NO contact is the best choice, always. Read some of the other posts, and you will see the trend. Those who have survived have cut all contact.

You do have an advantage that there is not currently any sort of a child support or custody order. Legally he has no rights to see your child. He would have to take you to court to establish that he is in fact the parent. That would require him traveling across states, filing court papers, and going through a DNA test. You would of course deny that you think he is the father, and use that opportunity to explain how abusive he was and that is why you have avoided any of his contact.

The process of establishing paternity would have to take at least a few weeks to a few months. Once paternity is established, you would have to wait for another court date for a judgment on support and parenting time. At this point you need to realize that if he legally persues custody or visitation with your daughter, he will also be setting himself up for __years of child support arrearages.

They set up support and visitation all at the same time, so I am sure that he realizes the financial obligation which would come with it. I would think most Psychopath dirt bags would shy away from responsibility like that, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think if he was enraged about not seeing his daughter, he would not be able to sit tight for over a year. But then again, we are dealing with a Psychopath. The only thing that is predictable with them is devastation for anyone they become close to.

My point is don't be fearful. People say the best revenge against a Psychopath is to live your life fully. Living in fear is not living fully. It sounds like you have got your plan together, I hope a few of my suggestions help as well. It is great that you are a good distance away from him. Many of us wish we were so lucky!

I explained the custody process to you to reassure you, that even if he does decide to act on one of his threats to come for your daughter, you are not at risk of losing her. The paperwork process alone through court would buy you enough time to get a good gameplan together with your lawyer. Even if he did decide to show up in all of his horrific glory, the court process would buy you enough time to relocate if necessary. I don't think it will come to this. My point is change your number, break off any way he can contact you, and don't waste one more minute being scared of him.

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