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#16689 - 01/10/16 09:18 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: BecazofGrace]
DadofRad Online
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Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 129
Wow you have been through a lot. I congratulate you for getting through all those years. He is almost 18 and you are almost free. Ours is still in RT and we got him on SSI Medicaid to cover. We are talking to a lawyer. Not sure what state you live in, but they cannot force you to take him back, read below for details. Do a search for all my posts to get more of our story. You can do that easy from the main page.

Here's what I've learned about Psycho-path/RAD:
Read the socio-path next door. Read these blogs. They are clever and callous. He may act likes he cares, but when he knows you see through him, he stops the game. He will manipulate others and play on peoples sympathy. He can behave if he thinks he has something to gain by fooling you, but when you call him on his behavior he will never admit wrong. He doesn't care, he may cry tears when consequences come, but when he is separated he really doesn't miss you or value you. There are two types of people to him, those he can manipulate and fool or those he wants to torment. Bad behaviors are a game to them. They win if they can get the best of you, make you angry, or hurt you. He loses when he doesn't get you upset or when stopped in his torment. I recently heard a story of a child abductor who one child escaped and the abductor/killer was caught. In court the abductor kept saying "you didn't win" to the child and denying that he was caught. Hurting people is game and they are determined to win. There is nothing I can do to fix him or reason with him, he is how he is and cannot change and cannot even admit that he has done wrong. There is no conscience, no empathy, no sorrow, or regret, only anger, attacks, and denial. I cannot handle his behaviors in my home.

Here are some resources I have found:
Schools have ESE programs called IEP's, they can be evaluated and placed in a special school with therapy. Hospitalize him whenever he is threatening or dangerous. Multiple hospitalizations get more attention from Counselors and social workers and they can offer other solutions. Dont' waist time with counselors who are fooled by him (only half the counselors we have worked with really saw him clearly). Do find a psychiatrist and psychologist who get it. Social workers are key to getting services. In our state a child can be SIPP'd for special RT for dangerous behaviors after that he can be placed in a step down program which is a group-home with therapy. Coverage for these services can be obtained by Medicaid, which you can get by applying for SSI while he is in a treatment center. When he is out of your house, your income does not count against you for eligibility. Our state (FL) also offers a program called Child in Need of Services, which is designed for unruly children. This program can petition the court on your behalf if you tried all other therapies. The petition may place the child in another temp program or place the child in foster care. Record every dangerous behavior in a written typed journal. These journal are very helpful for the hospitals, programs, social workers and courts to establish the full history of his dangers. Ask for written records from the programs. They will usually push back, but it is your legal rite to request the child's full chart (you may have to pay a small fee for copies). Ask for all records of major incidents and accusations. Don't be afraid to report what he is doing to the authorities. Once you get enough records, it's obvious that he is the crazy one and you are innocent of his accusations.

Right now we are considering these next steps: Get a lawyer who specializes in dependency cases. In our state there is another program called Foster Care under Special Conditions. You petition for this if you can get a letter from a program stating he is unsafe for home life. You don't have to pick the child up from a program, but you will be charged with abandonment. This charge may actually be a good thing because it forces the case to a hearing (this is not criminal but civil case which means you will not go to jail). You present a denial that this is abandonment, but you are trying to protect yourself and other children from this child's dangerous behaviors and this child needs the State's services to remain safe. The judge may decide any number of things: long term group home, make the child a ward of the state (lose parental rights), or place the child in a program where you may have to pay child-support. Yes there are some frightening uncertainties with this, but more frightening is the prospect of him hurting my wife or other children when he returns home. Also be aware that a court appearance may be required at any time while in your care if he hurts another, or even when he is in a program and commits a crime while you have custody.

Please continue to write and ask questions, and let me know what you have found.
DadofRAD


Edited by DadofRad (01/11/16 06:01 PM)

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#16780 - 08/06/16 09:34 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: DadofRad]
DadofRad Online
member

Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 129
As usual, there is not much activity here. I thought I would follow up on what we have done in hopes of providing guidance for someone else. My son was released from the residential program he was in, however we were directed to get him into a step down facility, but none would take him. Three rejected him because he was too violent. We had been talking to our social worker and layer about this, and decided not to pick him up because he would be too unsafe to come home and live with our other children (3 and 13 years old). The lawyer is a dependency lawyer who often works cases where children are removed from the home. This case is kind of the opposite, but it is the same legal system.

Here's what happened. After our initial call to DCF stating that we would not pick him up, an inspector from the police department came by to interview us. At that time we were basically charged with neglect and abandonment, but know that this is not a criminal charge, but a civil charge. Also, it is a charge, not a conviction. The same would happen if someone accused you of abuse. We provided pertinent documentation, the numbers of our social worker, psychologist, and lawyer. She contacted them and got the full story, in addition to what we told her. She also interviewed my daughter in private to see if she felt threatened by my psychopath child and if there was any other reason to feel threatened in our home. When my son was scheduled to be released from the residential home, this inspector picked him up and took him to a shelter. A day or two after that, there was a shelter hearing where the judge looked at our case, recommended a suitability assessment for placement, a few other additional services and then they assigned us a ChildNet worker to be my sonís advocate. At this point, my son was placed into the care of the foster system, but we still maintain custody and guardianship. After that, they scheduled the arraignment hearing. Between these two hearing we met with the ChildNet worker and our social worker who knows us well to introduce ourselves and explain the circumstances to her.

At this time my son had another outburst at the shelter where he violently kicked and attacked others in a moving van. He even hospitalizing another 3-year-old by kicking her in the head. He also destroyed property and was throwing rocks at cars. He was hospitalized again for this. When I visited him in the hospital, he spoke of hearing voices of Lucifer and seeing demons. He also told me that he wanted to go to the foster system and that he felt like a prisoner in our house, because we always kept him under close supervision and required him to see many doctors and social workers. Surprisingly, he said these things very respectfully and seemed to show empathy, respect, and regret for his behaviors. These are things I had never genuinely observed in him before. But I wondered if he had just gotten really good at manipulation through pretending to be empathetic or remorseful. Because if he really had feelings for us or regret, he would want to come home and have another chance. I believe he wants to find someone else to fool, because he knows he can no longer fool us. He knows we are no longer trapped by him because we can get him out of our home every time he has an outburst and gets dangerous.

At the arraignment hearing there were too many lawyers for me to keep track of. Basically, it seemed like my son had 4-5 legal representatives and we only had our lawyer and our social worker. Regardless, everyone understood that we had done everything we could to help this child, but could no longer take the risk of having him back in our house. There was one part where our lawyer was arguing for us not to have to go to a parental training course and not to go to counseling, because we are not offending parents. I conceded that we are already going to counseling as a family regarding him and we have been participating in family counseling at the institutions via phone. They wrote that into our court requirements. Our lawyer also worked with the other lawyers to change the language of our charges from neglect and abandonment to: unable to care for the child, due to his psychiatric needs. When the judge spoke to us, she commended us for the work we had done and concurred that we had no other choice. She was very sympathetic. However, their goal is still for reunification in 6 months. So basically we will have to go back for another hearing in October to evaluate our compliance with court requirements (counseling and child support), and his progress or condition. Then, in January, we will have another hearing to discuss if he is ready for reunification. We and our lawyers will most likely state that reunification is not possible.

My son was returned to the shelter, but they required him to have a one-to-one sitter to keep an eye on him at all times, to try to avoid another hospitalization. Since then they tell me he is doing well, but he has not returned any of my calls. The suitability assessment recommended he be placed in a foster home, which has parents trained for special needs (therapeutic foster home). Next week he will be placed with a single foster mother, who has an older foster child. At that time, they will schedule his continued counseling with us and whatever other programs they provide for him. My guess is that he will not be able to maintain long there without another need for hospitalization or at this point maybe even juvenile detention. If that happens, we will have a good change of avoiding reunification mandates. Bottom line is that to avoid him returning to our home, we will probably have to keep going back to court every six months or so, at least for a while, and lawyers are expensive.

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#16782 - 08/07/16 05:24 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: DadofRad]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi DadofRad, Wow, this is quite a lot of information and thank you for being so forthcoming. As you can see by the views a lot of people are reading your story but as usual parents are much more likely to read than to come forward. Your information is very eye popping. I think to have to encounter this same ordeal every six months must be an unimaginable ordeal. How long do you think this will go on? It must be a relief that you aren't being considered as abusive parents. I have no idea how you handle all of this.

If people want to read your story if they click on your name they can view your posts and read your history. I encourage all parents of suspected psychopaths to read DadofRad's story. It is very hard to get support in the situation this family is in and I am asking that even if only a few words that people reading will respond and say a few words. It is mind boggling what this family is going through and I hope we can gather around and support them.

I really hope some parents will come forward to help support you and your family. I don't have children and am hoping that we can help you and some other parents in the same situation will come forward to support you.

Is he at a distance in this care facility from your home?

All my best,

Di

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#16783 - 08/07/16 07:14 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: Dianne E.]
DadofRad Online
member

Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 129
Thanks Di, for your empathy and support. I'm really living one day at a time and trying to be forward thinking instead of thinking about all the current trials. I'm also still clinging to the Serenity prayer as there is so much here I cannot change, and the part I can change I must be courageous enough to do it. I have no idea how long this will go on. The state will continually have the goal of reunification, but I am guessing that eventually it will be clear that he has gotten worse and not better and can never be returned home. My lawyer has no idea how long it may go on. At one time she estimated that there may be seven hearings, but that it just a guess. Right now he is about 20 minutes away in the downtown area. I'm not sure where his foster home will be yet. Our counseling expectations will most like be weekly, so I'm not sure how we are going to work all that out yet.

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#16784 - 08/07/16 07:42 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: DadofRad]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi DadofRad, I am guessing in your case one breathe at a time because I can only imagine in my worse nightmares what this must be like. I never had children (by choice) and I don't really know what to do except to try and help. I sent a message which I rarely do but I know her personally to a lovely long time member who joined us after being at my first forum many years ago. She will likely post in a few days.

I will keep checking in and let's see how we can get you some well needed support. I learned many years ago that people don't know until you ask so I am asking any members who are reading to please help you.

All my best,

Di

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#16786 - 08/08/16 02:21 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: BecazofGrace]
Notmyfault Offline
member

Registered: 11/05/15
Posts: 17
I am just now catching up on this story. I have learned a lot about this disorder, my own grown son is one or I should say was, as he is believed to be deceased. Also I myself am an adopted child, now grown...between the two combining subjects I have done a lot of research for 20 years, First I was impressed, like me you you find solace in totally educating yourself on the subject. This I think is excellent. There is so much to know, that it takes years till you start to feel you can just about smell them.

My background to start. I was a child who with my siblings were taken from our mother. It was years later I learned, she had left me at 9 1/2 months in a drawer and left me with a 2 yr old and 2 Great Danes. I was believed to be dead when found. My mother through all these studies I now know was NPD. And in spending years finding others, I found the disorder is heavy in my genes. I had a brother who had been taken from the orphanage and returned because of it, he ended up growing up there. I am not from the theory we are born clean slates, I am convinced genes plays a very big role. I have 3 adult children. Two by my ex who have grown to be exceptional human beings, and my youngest by a different father who I now realize also came from a similar genetic background. For years and years I could not see what was happening. Denial is a strong thing. Here is the shortened story of that child.

He was born right as my older two were starting school. His dad was a musician, and I was attracted to him as we're all females who seemed to meet him. I thought I was lucky. At five months Pregnant he beat me and I kicked him out. When our son was born, he almost died swallowing part of the first bowl movement. I wondered if that disruption in bonding caused it, I no longer believe so. I do believe the dual combination of genes did and the lifestyle of him growing up determined what would be his own special needs and quirks. He was a delightful baby, it changed at around 1. He would not bond, he would cry and fight you if you tried to give him affection. At age 3 I was told by head start that the psychologist thought something was mentally wrong with him. I laughed, I mean heck he was 3. And the following year he again went to head start at4 in a different state.

The teacher could not stand him, and tried to remove him, I called DC and she was actually let go after finishing her year. He would make up incredible stories, saying I was dead, or that his father was a policeman. Again I made excuses. Things became worse, though as a non violent upbringing we did not see violence in him till he was older. It became hard to work when he was young, no one wanted to watch him. I would work mid nights and have him sleep in my office, to try to hold a job. At 5 he.came to me with a red mark across his face, he said his 16 year old brother slapped him. After an argument with his big brother, I find out he slapped himself. He was like this quite a bit. At age 9 while I was working he stole the money I had in a drawer and went and bought survival equipment ( my 1200. I had just borrowed) I hospitalized him after this. First they said...early bi-polar.

If you know about the dangerous Triad he was already exhibiting it, though not exactly as was common. The Triad is, bed wetting, fire starting, and animal abuse. Two of three is a bad sign. He wet the bed till he was an adult, played with matches, but seemed to love animals. But after his dog died and we buried him in the backyard , we found he had been digging him up to watch him decompose. Then found he did the same with dead deer in the woods. My roommate was a psychologist and she started me on the reading and educating myself. She told me he was a budding,psychopath, but I was still in denial.

All his stealing and lying wore me down, but when he became a teen I thought he was better. He became one of the best looking, most popular guys in school. Everyone loved him, teachers, police, etc. because at that time he was so charming and so very strong, but never used violence to intimidate and always defended picked on kids and he wielded a lot of influence. He kept doing weird things and was diagnosed, NPD and Psychopath, label held back till age 18.

I thought we were very close, he acted like he really loved me. I lost confidence when after not allowing him to do something, he called the police and said I was beating him and he felt like an abused wife. The police came out, they knew him and believed me, the stare from him made me want to cringe and I ended up moving out, as I was scared. I will stop here for now as its a lot of reading. But let me say adopted children often come from personality disordered back grounds. Girl gets pregneant by creep and doesn't believe in abortion and creates a often troubled spawn. Do not feel guilty if you cannot control this child. They don't understand themselves at all, or feel guilty so there is nothing they feel ever needs to change. Hope to hear back, and will write more later

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#16787 - 08/09/16 04:02 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: Notmyfault]
DadofRad Online
member

Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 129
Thanks Notmyfault,
I've read your post before and recall some of your story. So I understand your child is grown up and presumed dead. How did you come to that conclusion? I assume you had cut him off from you as an adult and lost all contact and awareness. How did that work for you? Did he just leave you alone after you told him not to come back? Did you have to move, or did he just not even want to contact you. My wife worries that we may later have to move and change our names to get a clean escape from him. She fears he may stalk or try to harass/attack us when he is an adult. I don't think he cares enough to do that. He does want to hurt, harass, instigate, his care givers, but he easily transfers that role to anyone, and prefers those he can manipulate. He wants someone to take care of him so he can abuse them. If he is unable to harass his caregiver, I believe he will search for another. He has no attachment to us, so he can easily transfer that caregiver role to anyone. The hardest part is that I will always love him and want the best for him. I just know that best cannot be with us. It's hard to feel compassion and love for someone and have to watch them self-destruct.

I'm also curious about what you said about your son being so popular and handsome in school. My son tends to be too irritating to be popular. He tends to try to instigate his peers, but charm adults who are not his caregivers. So he does well with teachers in school, but not peers. To his caregivers, he is comfortable enough to treat them as peers and attempt to instigate them too. How did your son maintain such a good outward appearance and still exhibit psychopath tendencies?

I understand and I agree about adopted children often coming from personality disordered genetics. Unfortunately, our schools all teach you a person is a blank slate and with the right environment, you can raise a stable person. We have found that to be untrue. Aside from not having him until he was 17 months old, I honestly can't think of anything we could have done better to bond with him or train him. We were very attachment oriented parents, even co-sleeping for years. My priority has always been my family and kids, and I make sure to put them before my career. I can't tell you how many things we've tried to develop him (Church, boy scouts, karate, soccer, numerous counselors, therapist, meds). I know it's not my fault, as you said. It still feels horrible to come to this conclusion and make these decisions. Itís good to hear it from someone else.

The bottom line is always safety for my family, which I cannot guarantee as long as he is around. If he had not been an aggressive or dangerous psychopath, we would be stuck with him as he is. We probably would not even be aware that he is psychopath, because we would have continued assuming he was just more challenging due to adoption issues.


Edited by DadofRad (08/21/16 02:56 PM)

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#16788 - 08/17/16 09:04 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: DadofRad]
Notmyfault Offline
member

Registered: 11/05/15
Posts: 17
First and foremost.....it is NOT your fault. They often use the term anti-social personality disorder and I, like some others don't like that term. I have worked with many 'anti-social, teens....but, the majority were not psychopaths. These people are very very duel, unlike an anti social. The same psychopath who could kill you, could also run into a burning home to save a life. Not because they are heroes, but because they do not recognize danger, they are drawn to excitement, and it still feeds their need for admiration or notoriety. Because they are so complex they are not easily understood. They are a monster with the ability to appear as a kitten. They live in their own world with true loyalty only to themselves.. As per my son becoming charming...that happened around 15, I actually thought he was getting better. Before that no one wanted him hanging out with their child. He was not so charming till about 15. Of course it was then he grew taller and very good looking. He could act loving unless you said, no. Then the stare, calm, cold, and scary. He was sure of himself, charming, funny, witty, brave and manipulate everyone to do his work. He could share a big smile while telling an utter falsehood. He ripped everyone off, even his friends.....he would just convince them it wasn't him and he would be furious that someone did that to his friend. He defended the weak in school and prided himself in not handling things with violence. But that all changed after marrying a woman from Juarez MX. Through her family he ended up working running drugs and messed with the wrong people, whom originally by the way we're even charmed by him the first time he stole from them. Need to break, will return tomorrow!

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#16789 - 08/17/16 09:54 PM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: Notmyfault]
Notmyfault Offline
member

Registered: 11/05/15
Posts: 17
Trying a little more, needed to reread your questions and statements. I cut him off verbally Jan. 1 st 2007. Prior to this he had run from the cartel after ripping them off again, and he was kidnapped out of the us when they found him. They tortured him, but allowed him to live. After making him brutally kill someone, then they owned him. He had a phone I was footing the bill for him , and my bills were over 1000. A month. He kept saying he was afraid to leave , but promised he would after that Christmas. Last time we talked on New Years Day he glibly told me he had changed his mind, they had bought him a Rolex for Christmas. I told him the phone would be turned off in a month, and I never answered his calls after that. Though he had left me a message on that Mother's Day, trying to make me forgive him. It was awful to do that. Mine did eventually come with friends and tried to break in the house. I heard his voice, and our neighbor turning his porch light on scared them off. Our curb was spray painted red. The story has much more to it, but that is off track. I do believe he was there to kill me, probably as a punishment by the cartel for some other thing he did.( and to rob us).

A psychopath cannot learn to have true emotions and a conscience, the part of the brain that is our moral center does not exist for them, you can teach them the words, but they will never know the music.

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#16791 - 08/21/16 11:14 AM Re: Adopted Child & RAD [Re: Notmyfault]
DadofRad Online
member

Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 129
Thanks for.providing more of your story. What you say is so true about psychopath. No moral foundation. Capable of murder, but can appear as harmless as a kitten. My son is getting more beguilingly, to the point I still have to question: Did he really mean that or is he just manipulating? Does he really feel remorse and empathy, or has he just learned the way to act?

The scary thing is that few of his therapists know this and are easily taken in. Further, they don't really feel the need to review his extensive history and case notes I've provided or to talk to therapists' who have known him for years. So they end up giving him minimal supervisor. His first night at a foster home, he was sexual with another boy because due to lack of supervision. Now he's got the victim label which I'm sure he will use for sympathy. More frightening is that he now knows how to get someone out of his life quickly by making a sex accusation.

Did your son have explosive, violent episodes like mine?


Edited by DadofRad (08/21/16 02:50 PM)

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