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#17100 - 06/04/18 01:50 PM Psycho Sister Part 1
Raine Online
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Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 5
I am so happy (and sad) to find a group of so many people who can validate my experiences with a psychopath I grew up with. She manipulated and fooled my parents, and I was always the one who was made to feel selfish, jealous and crazy even though I did all I could to be generous, a good and giving person, and nice! Even though she was bigger than me, she used to steal my clothes all the time and stretch them out - I worked hard for them - and all my mother would do is say that they are only cloth and she is my sister. To avoid trouble and because it wasn't her clothes.

I even gave her money, bought her clothes so she would leave mine alone as well as makeup and jewelry - to no avail. She stole my driver's license and gave it to her rich friend so they could buy alcohol, and punched me in the face so that I had to have 8 stitches because I needed to watch a program for a school project, and she always had to have her way regardless of how trivial. She has never apologized for anything she has ever done in her life, and has absolutely no shame for any of the lies, drama, misery she has left in her wake. My mother used to always say that blood is thicker than water, and she wished she could have a sister. Even though she complained all the time about her cheap, controlling, cold, lying, selfish, unappreciative mother-in-law all the time and I had to listen and empathize, it was not returned. My mother was being deceived, manipulated and controlled, and I could do nothing about it. I know my sister also told lies about me, so my mother thought is was normal sibling rivalry and again, it was easier to just ignore it as she had her own problems, not really caring the hell I was going through.

I eventually left for the service as there really wasn't a lot of room for me and I couldn't take it anymore. I would have loved to stay home and save money to make a move, but that was not possible as I could endure no more. Being in the service, I got to stay in some places I never experienced before, and being away I still reached out to my mom and dad as I still loved them. My sister love bombed me and conned her way back into me life, and my mom guilted me. I paid for the plane tickets for my sister to visit me in some of the great places, including my home after the service in two great states. This was never reciprocated.

She flunked out of college but then went back to a different school, never admitting she flunked out of the first school, and made my parents pay what they could, and she lived at my parents until she was in her thirties and moved to where my brother and his friends were to get a better job out-of-state. She never reciprocated and even appreciated all the places she was able to visit because of me - she doesn't even appreciate my brother letting her have a start where she is now. She would have to use valuable vacation time and money returning the favor to me and she is a very selfish person.

After my husband and I settled to where we are now and she saw that, which is quite different from where we grew up, she started a fight or something and I didn't hear from her again until about 6 or 7 years later - the whole time she couldn't be bothered with me because there was nothing else she could get from me and she lost interest.

She was getting married and needed a matron of honor and she has no friends - her wedding party was made up of me, and her husband's family and my brother and his friends. I was conned again and spent a great deal of money on tickets, dress, hair, nails, present, vacation time. I was treated so poorly - she started a huge fight over something I had no control over and could have been easily rectified, and made my life hell. I was not allowed to go to the bridal party at the hotel the evening before the wedding. I had threatened to leave I could not take anymore. All my mother wanted was the image of no scandal and get it over again, as always, letting her get away with her abusive behavior yet again. After the wedding, it was as it had been before, no relationship, no contact - she blocked me from all social media and I know very little about her husband but I am sure she has told him stories about all of us as a reason to keep our distance.

For the first time in my life, my mother refused to take her side and say I was wrong (maybe because my husband witnessed the whole thing and she likes him and couldn't sweep it under the rug), so she had no contact with my mother the first year of her marriage. Plus my parents were aging and they needed a lot of help including financial and even though I sent them a lot of money, presents, etc. she never ever did. Little things here and there to keep up the front. This was also a good excuse not to have to help and deal with it.

I will finish my story later - it may seem a little tame so far, I am not mentioning a lot of the tawdriness and details, but trying to convey how much of a user she is - people are objects to get things from, not have a relationship with and care about. She used re-establishing a relationship with her sister as the reason for me to be her matron of honor, but she had no real intention for one. It was convenient for her as she had no one else, and good for the image - that is why my mom approached me and talked me into it. My mother was always saying she changed and wants to be friends - this is denial and being one of the most stubborn people I have ever met.


Edited by Raine (06/04/18 07:10 PM)

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#17102 - 06/17/18 06:46 PM Re: Psycho Sister Part 1 [Re: Raine]
DadofRad Offline

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Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 127
Thank you for posting your story. I couldn't help of think of our birth daughter who was in similar situation, growing up with a psycho brother who destroyed her things, manipulated people against her, sabotaged her relationships with family and friends, all the while she was being kind and really the only true friend he had. Thankfully, for our daughter we got it and understood mostly the games he was playing. We had seen very clearly his condition by the time she was 10 and from there we have done out best to keep him out of the house since then. Having lived your whole life under that must have been miserable. Does anyone else in your family see the situation as you describe or are they still being manipulated?

My approach every time it seems he is starting to manipulate a new therapist or a new foster parent is to just stay removed and sit back and watch. It I tell everything and explain what I think about him up front, I'm always looked at like the crazy one, but if I stay removed and let him manipulate, use, and abuse others, they figure it out on their own and when they confide in me, I can say, yes that is what we experienced too. But staying removed is key, he has to out of my life in order for me to watch from a far for that to work.

It know it's horrible, but I have learned to make light of it in some ways. If I don't laugh I will cry. Two shows that have helped me laugh and also see the situation more clearly are MadTV Stuart skits (youtube) and all the Thor Movies from Marvel. Thor's adopted brother Loki is a classic psychopath and they usually portray the relationship with a lot of humor.

Write more, I would love to keep up the conversation, although I don't check every day.

DadofRad

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#17107 - 07/05/18 07:14 PM Re: Psycho Sister Part 1 [Re: DadofRad]
Raine Online
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Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 5
Thank you so much for replying, I can tell you can exactly relate. You are a kind person. I feel so sorry for your daughter, but she is lucky to have parents who eventually understood what was happening. Unfortunately, my parents really could never empathize. They were good, honorable people but naive and unsophisticated, plus they had a great love for each of their children and probably were blind to what was actually happening and their mind could never go there. Plus for some people, unless it is a problem for you - someone actually harming and bullying you, stealing from you, etc. you don't take it as seriously especially if it is a close family member - until it actually happens to you.

I never understood why my mother told me I was jealous of my sister, I was the tough one, had a mean streak, made me do house chores - Al was the younger one, so her turn would come, she would tell me as I scrubbed the bathroom walls, pots and pans, dusted, vacuumed, etc. Well, her turn never came. And she would tell me things Al told her, which were absolute lies. Al brainwashed and manipulated her - all with words, no actions.

Al would steal my makeup, jewelry, clothes, my money. I gave her money and bought her clothes, jewelry, makeup to stop her from taking mine. It did no good, she took what I gave her and continued stealing from me. Since she was my sister, my mother told me that blood was thicker than water, I was lucky to have a sister since she never had one, clothes were just "cloth" and not to worry about them. I worked hard for that cloth and as a teenage girl, they were important to me. She never stood up to my sister or told her to stop stealing things that were not hers - she had her own problems and could not be bothered. When I complained to my mother, I was the annoying complainer that should just shut up and leave her alone. Or she would just very casually tell my sister in a light-hearted way, stop taking her things or ask her permission - not very seriously. When my mother was old and I was putting her things in storage, she was very concerned about her clothes - I asked her why, they are just cloth. She said, well, I guess you don't really understand unless their your possessions.

I know she tortured my dog - I love animals and was given a poodle when I was 8 and loved her dearly. When I say tortured, I would hear her scream and yelp. I would come running and see Al holding her, and ask what happened and she would say she didn't know. It would happen constantly. I finally found out what was going on, I was lucky enough to eventually see it in action - Al would do this thing where she would "bite" my dog on the back of the head/neck area and blow hot air so she would get this reaction. She never seriously injured her or drew blood, but this was terrible enough. This didn't bother my mother in the least - she did not like animals and beyond giving Al fun and entertainment, who cares? Al was smart enough to leave no evidence. When she broke my things, I knew it was her but since I had no proof, it was not taken seriously.

Al stole $100 from my parents, and they thought it was my brother for the longest time. I had my tip money so they didn't think it was me. Al was stupid enough to leave the envelope the money was in in her desk. Thank goodness they didn't think it was me planting it. My finger prints would not have been if they were ever inclined to check.

Al stole my driver's license and gave it to her rich friend so they could buy alcohol. She punched me in the face when I wanted to watch a program about a topic I was researching for school - she had to control everything all the time including the remote. I needed 8 stitches in my face and had to tell the emergency room I got hit with a door opening. She was never punished or ever told me sorry - she has never apologized for anything.

My parents had very different personalities, so they did not have a great marriage, they fought like cats and dogs. So the more Al whined and complained, the more they felt sorry for her and blamed themselves for the way she was. She flunked out of college and stayed home for 3 years partying. I told my mom to kick her out, but she told me she was afraid of Al and what Al would do to her or where she would end up. She went out with an ex con who had to go to jail. She then demanded that my parents pay for her to go back to school, which they did - it cost them more than what they contributed for my brother and me combined - maybe twice. My brother is a narcissist as well maybe not quite the psychopath Al is - they both lived with my parents until they were in their 30s rent free.

The situation was intolerable, I joined the Army. My siblings would ignore me when I came home to visit - I was the favorite one they said. And they completely revised history - I guess while growing up, I was the favorite one and was coddled, which was completely the opposite of reality. I was slapped and hit, and even beaten sometimes by my mother and father, I was a good kid just exasperated by the unfairness. Good grades, worked since I was 14 baby sitting and 16+ in restaurants, paid for my own car, insurance, never got into any trouble. Al was arrested for underage drinking when she was 12 or 13, it was on the police scanner and many kids from my class heard about it.

The only thing I can figure out is that Al was working behind the scenes with her image maintenance, her cons and her lies - they never raised a hand to her. I think I look more like my father, and my mother had issues with my father and subconsciously took it out on me - then when my father got home from work, she got him roiled up about me. Never ever underestimate the manipulative powers of a psychopath, I could never figure all this out and understand what was going on until I researched it on the Internet about 7 years ago. I was always made to be the crazy one, and felt such self-loathing and shame, what was wrong with me? Why can't I make this work?

I have a wonderful and loving husband I met and married while in the service - who sees everything! How lucky am I for someone to finally understand and see reality and the truth. For a few years, Al emailed him, sent texts, cards on his birthday, etc. trying to work him. He wanted no part of it. After my mother died but before the funeral, Al pretended to be her husband texting me and telling me my husband was a punk for sending her toys and telling her he married the wrong sister. But this was between 11-14 years ago and I needed to check my credit card receipts because she threw everything out. She has said much worse to me, why wait 11-14 years to tell me this?

We could not come home for Christmas or holidays because of the drama and fights Al always caused. I visited my parents during non-holiday times when I knew she would not be there. We live far away - it gave and still gives me a psychological safe buffer.

When I left for the Army, my mother understood more and more, and said that traits can be inherited and Al was just like her mother-in-law, my grandmother, who had a psychopathic alcoholic father who really beat her with his fists and belts. My grandmother was definitely a covert narcissist. It never stopped my mother loving Al, but she told me she didn't like her. I ended up being my mother's power of attorney and taking care of her in the end because she told me she always knew that Al stole money from me. She didn't trust her with hers. Al stole all of her good jewelry while she was in the hospital because she said she didn't want to leave it alone in the house. It was intended to be split between us. My mother wanted us to choose between us except two large necklaces - one was intended for me, the other her. I told my mother she should make the decision what was to go to each of us, I knew if she didn't how it would go and I was right. After a year, Al told my mother that one of the large necklaces was missing anyway - the innuendo being I took it. When she took it, she never said one was missing. After all the lies she has been caught in and her intolerable actions, my mother always gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Al would not take the time from work to go to hospice to say goodbye to my father - it took him 10 days, and she had a non-refundable deposit on a vacation - why was my mother and I prolonging his death? And she could not be bothered taking turns taking care of my mother or even saying goodbye to her when she was on her deathbed. To the very end my mother wanted to say goodbye to her. I gave her my love, my time, my caring, my money throughout the years. Al gave her words and small gestures. These must have been equal in her eyes. My husband told me my mother was afraid of Al and didn't want trouble, but it was more than that. I asked Al to hurry up, time is running out to say goodbye and Al said, "No thank you, but thanks anyway."

She has conned her husband and his family and my family - she tells stories so people feel very sorry for her. I have no idea what the stories could be but they are very effective. There was one family member who has money and was being targeted - she let it slip that she told this family member I was controlling the funeral and would not let her have any part in it. She did not want to be with my mother at the end - know what her last words were or how she felt. All she cared about was she was to pick the dress and flowers, which I had taken care of - had she been there or in time to discuss the arrangements with the director, maybe I would have considered it. But they were the dress she wore to her wedding - not her favorite color, and flowers Al's favorite color, not my mother's. It's all about Al. Then at the funeral, she threw herself on the casket - with real tears - it really was an academy-award winning performance, amazing. My mother was not allowed to be the center of attention even at her own funeral.

Anyway, so sorry for griping - there are people with much more horrific stories of what happened and is happening to them, my heart aches for them, please know that. I am just taking advantage of an audience who can relate to my experience with these types of "people" - actually understands the brainwashing and mind games these "people" play with friends and family - and no one believes you. Psychopaths are not cookie cutters, there are varying degrees of what they will do even if they are capable of doing more. Al is careful and doesn't want to do anything she knows she can't get away with or explain away with some twisted logic. But in my mind, I think she would have killed me if she could have gotten away with it, or had me killed. I have absolutely no proof, but I am the only one who really "sees" her.

I do think what my childhood would have been had she not been born. But I probably would not have joined the service and met my husband. Maybe I would have married a psychopath. There are so many of them out there. We're not all perfect, but most of us (non psychopaths) are caring empathetic human beings who have no stomach for these manipulations and craving to control everything, and have greed enough to hurt others because people are just what you can get from them and con them out of, and not have a rich meaningful relationship with. I have no idea what it would be like to have warm caring siblings who wanted to have a relationship with me and not use me or be petty. Thank you for listening - I pray for all of you empaths out there, stay safe.


Edited by Raine (07/05/18 07:15 PM)

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#17108 - 07/05/18 08:04 PM Re: Psycho Sister Part 1 [Re: Raine]
Raine Online
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Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 5
DadofRad, I should have mentioned I read your story and I am sorry about your son. I can honestly say since I had such an unhappy childhood, I could not see the point in having a family and living through that misery again. I may not have totally understood what was going on, but I thought there was some sort of genetic component knowing my sister, grandmother, uncle, and great aunt were very "off" somehow. There may be others on the maternal grandmother line, but we weren't a close family. I can't fathom the shock and sadness you felt when you understood what your son was and the despair you must still feel. I am happy that I did not have children and the line stops with me, but I was able to see what could happen, even though it may not have and I may have missed out on bringing a wonderful human being into the world, but knowing what I know I am not strong enough to take the chance. And my brother the narcissist and sister the psychopath did not have children either, thank goodness. But it sounds like you have a sweet daughter.

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#17114 - 07/21/18 02:55 PM Re: Psycho Sister Part 1 [Re: Raine]
DadofRad Offline

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Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 127
Sorry for my delay in response. I started a new job. My psychopath boss is still around, but now I am in his chain of command not the other way around. Now he has nothing but respect and friendliness to me, even paid for my good bye lunch (something I never saw him to for the dozens of others who have left under his supervision).

Your story is heartbreaking. I can relate to much of what you said especially about the parent being afraid of the child. We were really afraid of him and still are. He was so manipulate, I always feared that if I took him to authorities, they would never believe me. We also feared he would accuse of of abuse and have us put away or have our other children taken away. We were afraid the professionals would believe him and not us, which we actually experienced often. We found that some professionals get him, but others can be easily duped. Eventually, we found enough support and had enough evidence that people had to listen to us. Even now we had a report from one institution that they would not take him back (he needs placement again) because "his parents were disruptive to his treatment and were problematic to the direct care staff and clinicians.Ē What was our crime? I had questioned their recommendation when they wanted to put him in regular school and take him out of the EIP program he has been in the last 5 years. I asked them to start consulting the EIP professionals and stop making isolated recommendations. I also called them out when the minimized his behaviors and did not report significant incidents.

I can completely understand you not wanting anything to do with your family. My birth family was divorced and even though we did not have a psychopath, the dysfunction was enough to make me not want to return home. It sounds like your mother was somewhat in touch with the problem and the gene may have come from your father's line. I know you mentioned abuse by your parents, was that your mother and father? Did you notice psychopath traits in your Dad?

Was your sister violent and prone to outbursts? That was the one thing missing in your description that we have with our son, he is aggressive and can be violent. You would never know that by a casual conversation because he seems to soft spoken. I used to say that there are a lot of psychopaths out there, but are not really dangerous, just disruptive; however, when you combine that with aggressive and violent tendencies you have a recipe for a killer. We too as parents, often felt he would be capable of killing if given the opportunity.

Below are some of my thoughts on loving a psychopath. Dianne has been talking about this in the podcast and I had responded to her with some of these thoughts:

Your question about loving a psychopath this AM was interesting. I completely agree that once you know a person is psychopath, you should try not be emotionally invested in them, donít take anything from them that is endearing seriously, and of course try to separate yourself as much as possible.
My take on love is a little different though. I donít believe the premise of deserving love is a accurate premise. Love is not something you earn or something that is a human right. Love is freely given, usually without merit or without cause. No greater love exists than if you lay down your life for another, and no one deserves such sacrifice, but the giver gives on his/her own decision. This is also the Biblical definition of love.
I love my son, and I cannot stop loving him even though I know what he is and he can never return my love. He wrote a heart warming fatherís day note yesterday about how I am his role model and he mentioned all the fatherly things I did with him a child. If I felt it was sincere, it might have broken my heart. But I know he is manipulating and playing me. Regardless, it does not change the fact of who he is and it does not change my love for him. I still do. Part of it is because it was a commitment I made to him as an infant when I adopted him. Another part is I am his Dad, and I cannot help wanting the best for him even though I know he incapable of living a lie of love. He hasnít earned it or deserve it, but I still give it and it has no bearing on how much I understand his condition, will not let him back in my house, and will not be taken in by his manipulation.
Clear boundaries should be goal whether you are a parent, lover, or spouse or even employee. "I care about you deeply, but I cannot have you in my house, I can only meet with you under my own conditions, which are.... The next time you cross my boundaries, I am going to.... ". This is the approach I have taken and will continue to take as he grows into an adult.

I also want to mention that if you have a dangerous psychopath you can protect yourself and do not have to be victimized:
Record as much evidence as possible in writing, pictures, and video if possible. If others mention behaviors, get their statement as well. Compare notes with other people in his/her life who also might be victimized. Just a simple question, like "has he ever had an outburst with you?" might open up a lot of new details. You can try legal means like filing a complaint with the policy department, go to your police department and ask for consultation (bring all the evidence you can get), file a restraining order (check your local laws on how to do this).
Hire a lawyer or private investigator (ask your local police for referrals). In my case, I used some of the above before I went the abandonment route with my child. Other very practical steps: get a gun, a security system with cameras, a big dog (one bred for protection like a German Shepard). I used to be anti-gun, and wouldn't have one in my house while he was here.
But after he left and started running away, hanging out with thugs, and then come to our door I began to feel threatened and wanted to make sure I could protect my family, if needed. Just getting a gun and going through training helped me to get out of a hopeless, victim mentality into a survivor mentality. At that point I also started moving ahead in other areas of my life (career, home, finances, etc); whereas before I had so much PTSD, I felt stuck and paralyzed.



Edited by DadofRad (07/22/18 06:24 AM)

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#17121 - 08/14/18 04:58 PM Re: Psycho Sister Part 1 [Re: DadofRad]
Raine Online
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Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 5
You have a lot of love in your heart, I have no feelings any longer for my sister. When someone has "played" you for so many years, used you when it suited them, and you realize there is nothing there, it makes things so much better. I used to feel so guilty, not realizing that there are people who don't think and feel like humans, that others are just objects to use for what they can get out of you - the freedom I feel now is exhilarating. The total blankness of not feeling I have to try or care, because there is nothing there. With my mother dead, as much as I am grieving, I now no longer have to feel guilty for her family not getting along - how much can one person do and take? How much push and pull can one person tolerate? Even if there are genes that lead to tendencies, I do feel that all humans have some level of choice how they behave and treat other humans, but I could be wrong.

I think my sister conned and manipulated my mother who was pretty innocent of people like "Al." I can't imagine the lies that were told. I am sure Al mirrored and loved bombed my mother, and I was the insubordinate one because I was my own person. My father has narcissistic tendencies, but he was not a psychopath like my great grandfather, grandmother, uncle and great aunt (on my dad's side). My parents, especially my mother, hit me, but because I had a fresh mouth and was very independent. They had a lot of stress, both didn't get along because of their personalities, and my father had 3 jobs. But what hurts is my sister brainwashed them, they never knew how devious she was, and when they started learning they still never laid a hand on her even though she was worse than I could ever have been. Maybe they were making amends for how they treated me, or maybe they thought I was stronger and she was messed up because of our home life, so it wasn't her fault. Believe me, she always complained and made people always feel sorry for her. I am not that way and was not devious enough to consider it.

Al had many outbursts, she punched me in the face once because for once I wanted the remote to watch something for school - I got 8 stitches in my upper lip and still have the scare. Parents did nothing, even though my mother told us to stop arguing, I turned to look at her, and Al cold cocked me when I wasn't looking. My mother could not have missed this. But for the most part, Al was quiet and shy and mirrored other people, including me when she was very young. She has absolutely no personality or interests/hobbies of her own other than buying clothes and jewelry (gold) and traveling, and posting mostly selfies of herself on Facebook to make everyone try to be envious of her. I don't mean to judge, but people in their late forties should not be posting selfies of themselves so often. Even though Al hadn't spoken to my mother for months leading up to her death (my mother called her once maybe because she realized the end was near) Al posted pictures of my mother on FB on her death anniversary to get likes.

As Al got older, she did get more and more dramatic, especially at holidays or when one thing was not correct. My parents were hungry and didn't wait for her to get there to go out - screaming and drama. My parents did not have the driveway plowed in time for her arrival - screaming and drama. I can't count how many times my mother got gifts she gave Al thrown literally back in her face.

The complete self-involved attitude is quite unbelievable, I can't understand how people actually think they are more important than others, privileged and should have everything they want over everybody else. Complete self centeredness of self importance. Even a little matter like selling my parents house cannot be done without drama and years of litigation - she and my brother who is a narcissist do not feel like they need to do their fair share of anything. Again completely unbelievable.

Like I wrote above, you are similar to my parents who never stopped loving such a creature, no offense to you, but maybe this makes you a better person. You seem so emotionally mature and responsible. Even though you are caring and involved in your son's care, in the end my opinion is that these institutions are finding excuses not to continue having him, and if they do have him to take the money, they do not want your involvement because your son is so extremely difficult. You are kind, and want to make sure he is being taken care of correctly and receiving appropriate treatments, but maybe you need to give yourself a break and not be so involved. I am not a professional, just giving my opinion, as everyone has one. After what I have been through, and I compare nothing of the horrendous experiences of others, and with my mother passed so I am no longer made to feel guilty to keep trying, I want nothing to do with my siblings, and if I discover anybody having the same traits, which I really do not thank goodness, I keep my distance and do not feel guilty. Or in a professional setting, work as hard as I can, and separate my professional life from my personal life as much as possible. In the past I have worked for psychopaths and had to leave, but thank goodness I have not experienced that in a while.

My nightmare will be over with the sale of my parents house, hopefully sooner than later (knock on wood). I am sorry that there is no foreseeable end to yours, but from my experience, you need to distance yourself and your family as much as you can. And make it so there is nothing left for him to get from you if you can.

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