Creation, Beauty, Destruction, Isolation, Renewal...

CREATION. P initiates creating relationship, in mask.
BEAUTY. P elevates the "beloved" to the highest reaches of heaven; P invents the semblance of deep, heartfelt, soul stirring, story tale, romantic love, in mask.
DESTRUCTION. Suddenly dropping the now repugnant other into the deep, dark depths of hell, mask removed.
ISOLATION. P withdraws from relationship; P dissolves into a state of nothingness.
RENEWAL. P seeks to recreate relationship.

This, in my experience of observing P objectively, and stripping away details, is the core pattern inherent in all Ps. In my opinion, P cannot control this cyclic pattern. P wants loves, wants emotional stability, wants a satisfying material existence, yet has no inner emotional criteria to define sensory want; all P has is what s/he has gleaned via external stimuli and observation. Moreover, P cannot follow through with commitments, plans and/or goals, because an involuntary internal "switch" is thrown, fragmenting the psyche of P into component parts. Thus, Creation/Beauty is suddenly terminated (Destruction), at which point P enters into a subjective, psychic experience consisting of disintegration, decay, and "death" (Isolation). P is reconstituted, and restored to freshness All memory of Creation/Beauty obliterated during Destruction/Isolation, P dons the mask, and again seeks relationship (Renewal).

NOTE: I am presenting my theory in synopsis. Also, I am in no way negating the pain the above pattern causes those of us touched by P.

I would greatly appreciate your input. Please share.

hi senihele
i have to take off for work right now (although i would much rather sit here and comment on your post), but had to say first that i am in love with your theoretical framework! i will return to it this evening and provide some feedback. i am continually astounded by the amount of knowledge, intuition, and experience (gathered none other than the hard way) within this group. hare could benefit by sitting in on some lectures.
later,
persistent

Senihele,
That certainly describes the "circle of life" P-style, that I lived through. You've described it in a nutshell! I'd like to write it on a business card and carry it around to review whenever my denial thought patern starts to rear its ugly head.
Thanks,
Leti

Senihele-
I agree with Leti- I need to memorize the script. The M.O. (modiaus operandi) is the same, the names and stories varied. I just escaped from the RENEWAL. . .wow! I need to think about that.

Thank you for your insightful post. It sure helped me.

finished

Mine was a little different, had one step before the CREATION. For a year and a half he showed no romantic interest whatsoever, became my friend at work, got me to feel sorry for him, kept on and on about how the owner and staff treated him poorly,came to my house to fix my car for me, set up people at work against me, snuck into my house while I wasn't there, pitted me against my friends, found out information to use against me for blackmail, found out information about me, had other people checking up on me, built bookshelves for me which he said could be moved, (Oh, if I had only twigged on that one )told lies about me, had the staff creat so much havoc for me at the store, I didn't think I had any alternative, but to move out. All so I had ONLY him to fall back on, all to force me out of the store and on my own with just him. All this I found out much later.

Once we had moved into "our" own store that's when he said, "At last we're alone, no one to bother us " Sounded really odd at the time. THEN he proceded onto the romance or CREATION stage.


Betrayed

betrayed,

Wow, what a miserable, horrible being. You have described psychopathic behavior in a way that resonates with my experience and what I now know is a true hallmark of a psychopath. I guess it would come under the conning/deception heading in Hare's checklist. I thought for a long time that my exhusband had to care for me if he was "helping" me with tasks and situations in my daily life. The reality is that he was worming his way in and setting me up. They are hateful and harmful beyond what anyone should be unfortunate enough to have to come up against. Your post really struck in me the rememberence that they are all about being a con artist which really is a shortened term for Confidence Artist. This gives me the shivers; to know that one is gifted in the capacity to extract confidences from trusting souls to use against them for his betterment. A psychopath's talent.

Part of what is difficult for me on my healing journey is handling and processing the horrific knowlege that I'm accumulating. I'm sure it is a large cause of my PTSD. The psychopath has engrained himself into so many areas of my life. When that happens its hard to shake them off. And this is with no contact for almost a year now. I can't imagine the shape I'd be in if I was treating him as if he were real or manageable.

Thanks for the reality check.
Cherie

In my experience, P will sometimes "rapid cycle" like the Bipolar, during which manic (Creation/Beauty/Renewal) and depressive (Destruction/Isolation) episodes alternate approximately four times a year, four times a month, and, in severe cases, even several cycles a day. Keep in mind that P functions in what I call “mindless mindfulness”. The P psyche is fragmented; consequently, when rapid cycling, P compartmentalizes the various aspects inherent in his patterning.

The idea of fragmentation is difficult to comprehend for those of us whose brain function is "normal" (unless you are a Child of the Sixties, and have experienced LSD, which throws "normal" brain functioning into a form of compartmentalized psychosis). Popular P theory and CT scans reveal abnormalities to frontal lobe areas of the P brain. This area of the brain is responsible for conscious behavior (i.e.; logical thinking, and reasoning). However, in my opinion, this abnormality extends into the medulla oblongata, the back portion of the brain, also known as the primal or reptilian brain, which is responsible for instinctual/automatic functioning (breathing, blinking, etc.), feelings, and memory.

Now, imagine that the brain is a box. Within this large box there are many little boxes. Each small box bears a distinct label: There is the Workbox, the Play box, the Love box, the Friendship box, etc. Inside each of these little boxes are souvenirs or objects - the broken memoirs of experience; i.e.: Work, Love, etc. Consider that a key (memory) is required to open up the little boxes. However, due to fragmented psyche, P cannot find the key. Somewhere between reasoning (frontal lobe activity) and remembrance (medulla oblongata), P’s synapses are not firing. The conduit carrying the spark of electricity is severed, and brain waves cannot flow from one region to the other. (I believe that the key is lost during Isolation, when P dissolves into himself.) Consequently, P cannot access the memories pertaining to past experience and contained within the little boxes. Hence, P has to break into the little box s/he wishes to access, in order to view the contents.

For example: Once regaining entry to the Love box, P sees mementos pertaining to his previous encounter with Creation/Beauty (romantic relationship). However, those reminders are placed in the box during his/her last experience of the beginning of the Destruction portion of the pattern, and are forgotten while P dissolves within the throes of Isolation; hence P must start over and over again (Renewal), still in a state of psychic fragmentation.

Furthermore, depending on the involuntary timeline of rapid cycling, P MUST change the “rules”. In my humble opinion, P does NOT change the rules to confound and sideswipe others; P changes the rules because s/he fragments. P does not remember where s/he left off, so P has to create anew. This is why the life of P has nothing to show for existence. All that P puts forth is a fragmented memory of external experience, a projection of his/her perception of what existed in the past. So P must don the mask (of sanity) in order to appear “normal” – in order to SURVIVE in society. Sadly, P cannot sustain appearances of normalcy and/or commonality. Suddenly, an involuntary “switch” is thrown, and the proverbial lights go out, dashing P’s hopes and dreams of emotional consistency and reliable love.

If P is attempting to regain access to the Love box, and utilize the contents therein, then the “switch” that goes off effectively shuts down P’s heart, and the “beloved” experiences the Destruction portion of the pattern along with P. (Again, I want to emphasize that I am not negating the pain this causes those touched by P. Yet, the cold, seemingly calculated cruelty in P’s actions and behavior are actually projections of the P’s internal experience of the P pattern onto the “other” (you and me).

Therefore, engaging with P is much like the attempt to rescue a rabid dog. The rabid dog is sick, and in pain. The illness deranges the dog’s mind to the point where it no longer has cognitive function (reason). The rabid dog is functioning on broken automatic pilot. Those observing the dog feel compassion, recognizing that the dog needs help. However, any attempts to rescue the dog may lead to personal injury, and so when displaying the full-blown ravages of the dis-ease, the dog is often shunned, driven away, or captured and destroyed. However, those of us who acquired the dog prior to the symptomatic onset of rabies, and have shared the misfortune to be bitten, become toxic, and must undergo a series of painful shots in order to be relieved of the illness.

Betrayed, in my opinion, what you experienced at the onset of encountering P was a combination of P patterning and projection. P was breaking new ground, laying down the framework of the relationship with you (Creation), while simultaneously alienating you from others (Isolation). The annihilative aspects of the P pattern (Destruction) affected you; yet, P was dissociated from the extremes of his behavior. P was “creating love” (Beauty) from a part broken off, detached part of memory. P was starting from scratch (Renewal). Fortunately, you removed yourself from the endless P cycle following the first round of the wheel.

Senihele, I think your model is wonderful. I see it co-existing with other models which explicate the same process from different perspectives.

There are very slight differences among psychopaths and their psychopathic processes. I relate perfectly to all of your stages, except the last one, renewal. My husband did go through this one with me, in the early years. In fact, it was bizarre how quickly he moved through the cycles. He would confess a cheating episode, and initiate renewal within minutes. Then, a week later, another cheating episode, another renewal. Probably, this changed because, after a year or so of this, the renewal didn't work for me, his victim, anymore. I couldn't move naively through the cycles. I wanted to see change of a deeper and more permanent kind. I insisted upon it. This altered this cycling forever. Psychopath began to hide his real activities from me, to lie, and keep me out of the cycles. There were some idealization phases, but they were pale in comparison to the original ones. There were certainly destruction and isolation phases. And peaked renewals. I believe he was going through these cycles, in full intemsity, with other women. I had become secondary supply. Come to think of it, I'll bet this is what always when a psychopath maintains a longterm relationship. He wears the wife or girlfriend out, and turns to fresh victims, for this intense cycling. He keeps the wife around as secondary supply. He keeps her until she fails even as secondary supply, or until he finds something he wants to replace her with.

hi senihele

i told you i'd be back. excellent work. what i really like about your theory is that it focuses on providing some organization to the experience of a psychopathic relationship and not so much on the underlying reasons for psychopathic behaviour. basically, it deals specifically with the process. i'll go through your steps and intersperse the ideas of true and false self among them that i wrote about in another post. I won't change your framework, but try and slot a few of my ideas under them to see how things work. your framework provides a good means of organizing many ideas about P behaviour. i can't resist categorizing some of my thoughts within it... i'll only do the first three for now.

"CREATION. P initiates creating relationship, in mask."

I assume you are getting at the initial reconnaisance mission, where they are checking as to whether we are a worthwhile target. By "worthiness check" I mean that they are trying to ascertain whether we are a good candidate for supporting and validating the false self. I'm sure they can tell fairly quickly whether someone is unselfish and empathetic and, better yet, insecure (most good and loving people are, after all). They will not target selfish or "harder" people because they know will not provide sufficient support for the false self (although they will associate with such people nonetheless, and keep their little narcissistic "flask" on the side). Once the target has been assessed as worthwhile, the false self begins to more seriously absorb and process all available data from the target, in order to impeccably construct the persona that will suit the target's wants, needs, and desires.

"BEAUTY. P elevates the "beloved" to the highest reaches of heaven; P invents the semblance of deep, heartfelt, soul stirring, story tale, romantic love, in mask."

The ever-shifting entity that is the false self has now practically fully assimilated the personality of the target
and is a shockingly perfect imitation of the ideal mate (or friend, as i think your framework works just as well for less intimate P relationships). Although the target will probably encounter and be a bit confused by unlikely tales and inconsistencies in this phase (and in CREATION as well), he/she will likely ignore them in light of the blissful feeling that accompanies these stages. Also, one will not want to risk upsetting and/or losing the ideal mate by questioning their words and behaviour. Later one will remember these little teeny-weeny pebbles in the shoes (i.e., hmmmm that claim or story doesn't seem to make sense given what i know about him/her but oh well no big deal he/she is my world) as warning signals for big landslides ahead.

"DESTRUCTION. Suddenly dropping the now repugnant other into the deep, dark depths of hell, mask removed."

The false self has perceived threats (by threat i mean perceived reduction of narcissistic supply), likely as the result of the target's questions or doubts or insistence on more meaningful contributions to the relationship (the romantic superficiality has a short half-life). By definition, the false self is far from solid enough to sustain a relationship, and the false self is all there is. It was built for the target and only the target, like a mosaic on top of a black dragon, and when it goes (when the P perceives the target as unsupportive of it), only the dragon remains. then the relationship changes into one of power and domination in order to preserve the false self by villifying the victim. In other words, if he or she will not support it unquestioningly, then s/he will be bent into taking the blame for every confrontation or challenge to it. The resulting perceived shift of blame/responsibility (even though it is illogical and irrational on close examination and reflection) serves the purpose of validating the false self once it gets no sustenance from the BEAUTY stage. Likely the P will try and and subtly trivialize the relationship at this point, and will probably be seriously looking for further narcissistic supply (i.e., a replacement). The false self can feed off of domination, but the BEAUTY phase is preferred; the DESTRUCTION phase seems to be primarily a defense mechanism.

see you later,
persistent

"Part of what is difficult for me on my healing journey is handling and processing the horrific knowlege that I'm accumulating. I'm sure it is a large cause of my PTSD."

I was in shock the first month, could not process it. I could not speak for the first few days. I was like a zombie. I would just sit and rock myself. A friend came in the store and told me I look like someone in a mental institute, the way I was rocking. I was almost in a trance state. It was like my brain had shut down. I don't know how I even got to the store to open it.I remember telling one of the customers that I really missed having the P in the store.
All the things that he had said and done that were odd were just swirling in my brain. I'd figured it out but could not put it into words, still till this day, have problems of saying a clear cut story. I don't think it is possible. You can tell bits and pieces, too many stories within stories.

I remember if someone would disagree with me about something, I would put my hands up to fend them off, it was like I was being battered with words.

After the first month, all of it just came vomiting, all at once out of my brain. I was reading and reading psychology books trying to figure it all out. What he'd done. All the people he had involved. Why? It was just so horrific.

It seems to process in layers, every day a little deeper, for the reality of what happened to set in.
It seems as if the PTSD is a way of our brains to try and weave all the little pieces into one whole.


"The psychopath has engrained himself into so many areas of my life. When that happens its hard to shake them off. And this is with no contact for almost a year now. "


The real healing for me began after he stopped stalking us.Its hard when you see them and don't know what they are going to pull next. Constantly trying to figure out their next move. I have seen him around town only a few times since the stalking stopped. and each time was traumatized again. These guys stick like glue and I'm always frightened of his starting again.

I'm so sorry for you that he is in so many areas of your life. That makes it so hard for you to heal.You hear of women escaping underground, and the guy still finds them.

Betrayed

((((((((((Betrayed)))))))))))

Fear cannot exist where there is breath. BREATHE! You are not alone. All of us here have shared your experience. You cannot make logic out of crazy-making behavior. Ultimately, there is nothing to analyze.

Psychopathy is a MENTAL ILLNESS, first and foremost, and one that withstands the intervention of psychiatry and/or exorcism.

The P I am involved with, and from whom I am in the process of extricating myself, is a real piece of work. I have every reason to be afraid, very afraid. However, I will NOT allow him to destroy me.

It has been said that you can't win with P. That depends on what you want to win. We CAN win by having the courage to look P in the face, see him for what he is, have compassion for his dis-ease, and refuse to be his prey.

So, if P stalks you and your family, then determine the gun laws in your area, and acquire a license to carry one if necessary. Take karate. Protect yourself. Do whatever you have to do to heal, and live a P free life.

My apologizes for sounding so emphatic, yet sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. All of the above I say to you while nursing my own broken heart. I find comfort in realizing that the man I love(d) is a P. At least I now know that I am did nothing to deserve his malignant behavior.

Hi,
The only way I can win, is to refuse to play. To remove myself from his game.
By doing that I am little by little, "centering" myself again, around truth and God's purpose for me, and rediscovering some semblance of peace.
Leti

Hi Leti,
I agree that the best and only way of dealing with P ultimately demands of us a "Let go, let God" end result. The problem seems to center on getting from Point A to Point Z. And, when we are wading somewhere through the middle, or even when we are near the tail end of the figurative alphabet (such as I am), in my opinion, armed with the knowledge we have regarding P's modus operandi, we have to act from a place of SELF-preservation on whatever level to takes to survive.

Thanks Senihele. Great advise, I read your post last night and it helped. Breathe, breathe, breathe. Thank you for the comfort. After I wrote that post last night, I realize it is just too hard for me right now, to keep bringing all this stuff up. My original intention was to have a written account for the police, in case he ever starts up again, or if something happens to us, so someone will know. Everytime I spoke with police, I didn't know what part of the story to tell, as far as they are concerned right now, when they last talked to him, they think this is some sort of domestic dispute, and he told them that I am stalking him.
Cop told me I have to get over this need get on with my life.

As far as protection, no guns, I'm in Canada. We both have cell phones that dial 911. plus carry pepper spray at all times. Keep all the doors locked at all times, all the windows are covered over. Try and never go anywhere alone. Don't go out after dark. Neighbors watch out their windows whenever a car pulls in.
He has screwed around with my vehicle, numerous times. Keyed it, let the air out of tires, loosened the steering wheel, took fuses out and thrown them in the backseat, etc., etc. tailgated me home, but always something I notice immediately. If he chose to he could really do some major damage here, cut brake lines, etc. It is near mpossible to have all avenues covered.
Would love to be able to afford video cameras, but we are struggling so bad still financially.

Its almost impossible to protect yourself totally from these people, you just do the best you can.

As far as fighting fire with fire. I'm not even go there. He is a paranoid with lots of psychotic, delusional features. Does he really believe I am stalking him? Who knows?

It breaks my heart to realize what happened to him as a kid, but it also breaks my heart knowing he is out there preying on children and other people, and realizing he has destroyed many peoples lives. He has made choices all through his life to get him to where he is today

None of us did anything to deserve their behavior. Your P sounds extremely dangerous. You will never know when or why he will turn on you. A gun and karate can only go so far. Let someone else get help for him. You have already informed that lady about his behavior, put it in her hands. These people are just too dangerous to have any contact with.
I sense your anger at my helplessness, and probably yours too.
(((Senihele)))


Betrayed

Betrayed-

I think where I'm at right now (26 days from the "experience") I relate totally to your reaction to it all. When I say I am humbly, grateful forever thankful, that I wandered into this forum, I say that with all my heart. It was four days after "it" happenned and I was IN SHOCK. Reading, posting, the validation you all gave me, plus my tharapist telling me I had great instincts. . .put me light years ahead of someone starting from scratch trying to figue it out. As I read through the posts, I saw to many similarities to discount my experience. I was a desperate, hysterical (well probably on the verge of hysteria). I could feel that deep sob in my gut that if I gave into, wasn't sure, "I'd come back" so to speak.

> All the things he had said and done that were odd were just swirling in my brain. I'd figured it out but could not put it into words, still till this day have problems of saying a clear cut story. i don't think it is possible. You can tell bits and piece, to many stories within stories<

Yes, the stories inside stories. Oh yes!!!!

Praise God we can post. It helps see the BIG picture. I liked Semihele picture of their brain. Of boxes in their brains. I think that is how WE find the answers to the stories in the story. They are compartmentlized in those boxes in P's story. . .does that make sense, so there are all those different facets. Instead of everything flowing like it does in most people and creating a "whole" they have all these boxes. In these boxes are disguises. They put them on and try to take on the personality of the disguise. It doesn't work cause it's not "IN" them. It is not in thier CORE.

I had this conversation that night in regards to his employees. He was annoyed because they don't do what he wants them to. Then he talked about his "act" (red flag). Indicated he liked my "style". I said, it is not a style, it's who I am. I don't TRY to be this way, It's me it who I am, I can't help but be this way" (I thought he knew that, I'm not phony. I think myself as the genuine article or try to be). I work on my stuff. When things negative stuff pops up, I try to work on it. This affair with him has been my utmost dishonesty and the conflict and turmoil inside me over the compromise of it all has overwhelmed me. The postings have helped me to forgive myself as I have seen the "power" of their "hook".

>It seems to process in layers, a little deeper everyday, of the reality of what happenned to set in<

My first reaction was, I don't WANT to know about this evil personality. I didn't even want to THINK about it. Be familiar with it. I wanted to RUN, put it as far out of my mind as possible. BURY it. Foget it forever. Chalk it up to experience. Pretend this never happened to me. This had to be someone else this happenned to. (Ahh, blessed denial. . .)

I promise, it was you all, your posts that struck such a chord in my heart that I needed to own this experience. Read, learn, face the demons (literally I believe). That knowledge is power. I have learned from this forum, I was groomed from birth to be a prey, target for P's. I have been passed from one P to another all my life. The goal was the same with all of them. Destroy! Destruction! Kill (murder of the soul, the spirit). I see it now!

>It seems the PTSD is a way of our brains to try to weave all the little pieces into a whole<

See. . I really relate to that. And, I can see it is important for us to look at the pattern, look at the red flags, try to peice it together, so we can find that place where our "fences" got broken and the area or weak spot the P targeted. Kris posted on the 18th about the "unrecognized heart:. That post took me to the floor sobbing. It was my story. Change the people, places and things, but the story was the same. I would say that day was probably the day that will stand out in my life forever. I realized anyone who would constantly validate my heart, could be the person who could "practically OWN" me. i realized i never had any love ever without strings attached (except my brother). That's why when P#2 went into the "Destruction" phase immediately after three years of careful "Creation" I was truly tramutized and destroyed. I have spent these last five years like the walking dead. trying to figure it out. No counselor could explain it to me. NONE. In April 2001 I began climbing out of the pit to find myself still vurnerable. I see now how he quickly cycled through all within 2 months to maybe forever to drop me to "DESTRUCTION" never to be recreated again. Remember, I thought I was going to die that night.

>the P has so ingrained himself into so many areas of my life. When that happens it is so hard to shake them off. And this with no contact for over a year now<

I have not laid eyes on this person for 26 days now but when I was at his store, I felt SO UNEASY. I try to time it when I know he won't be there, but worry he will show up when I'm there. I'm working on getting another job but I have a HUGE account I have been working on closing for a long time. It should wrap this month. When it does, I'm gone from there forever, Praise God!

I'm believing you all when you tell me we can escape from this pit. that's true. . Right?
With much love to all. . .((((betrayed))))
finished

"I'm believing you all when you tell me we can escape from this pit. that's true. . Right?"

It's true, finished. Not escape in the sense that you will go back to the way you were before it happened. The only way out is through. You have to process it. It becomes a part of who you are.

Also, because it's a process, it doesn't have an abrupt end. But that's good because the process is really nothing more than growing in awareness, which is what we come to earth to do, to grow in awareness, move closer to a condition of truth, and channel truth and goodness through our lives. Every human being will do this, in this life, or another. Might as well get busy on it, now.

Hi, just a correction, a Psychopath does not qualify as a mental illness.

In reply to:

---

Psychopathy is a MENTAL ILLNESS, first and foremost, and one that withstands the intervention of psychiatry and/or exorcism.

---

Di

Hi Leti,

You wrote:

"The only way I can win, is to refuse to play. To remove myself from his game.
By doing that I am little by little, "centering" myself again, around truth and God's purpose for me, and rediscovering some semblance of peace".

This is very good for me to read today. You've brought a piece of sanity into my world. I've been pretty much going with this same method on the path, not much fun yet. In fact, mostly pretty dreary and harsh. But little sparks of light are showing up sometimes, surprisingly. lol! I have to say its better. Mostly. Thanks so much!

Cherie

Hi Di,

Thanks for writing this clarification. Whew!

Cherie

Dianne, Yes, thank you so much. Psychopathy is not a mental illness. It is a personality or character disorder. Big, big distinction. Thanks for being on your toes.

kris

Leti, I just want to add my validation to Cherie's of what you wrote:

"The only way I can win, is to refuse to play. To remove myself from his game. By doing that I am little by little, "centering" myself again, around truth and God's purpose for me, and rediscovering some semblance of peace."

You don't write often, or many words, but when you do write, these days, it is always ALOT in content. You are clearly making the best possible recovery. You are employing the worst possible experience to move forward in personal growth. Your words inspire. Bless you.

kris

Hi. Yes, you are correct. Thank you. There is a big difference.

Thank you all so much for the encouragement and comfort you give me. I just experienced the core pattern in action.

As some of you know, P had moved out of my house 3 weeks ago (Destruction/Isolation). Then he came back around (Renewal), and after 3 days of jibberish around "our" issues, he went back into the love (Ceation/Beauty) state, and we began couples counseling at his behest. However, between the time he moved out and came back, when everything was up in the air, I had received a call requesting I fly down to another part of the state to sing with a band I used to travel with. I hadn't commited fully to the idea, yet they called again after P came back and resumed our "love", and said they really needed me to do this, so I accepted.

P was very angry about this. We took the problem into a 2 hour counseling session, and he calmed down; yet, he wouldn't stay with me before I left, and changed the rules of our relationship. Now, we were to be monogamous Soul Friends in Truth, seeking Spiritual Romantic Love with no assumptions or expections.

He called me 3 times while I was gone, which surprised me because it seems out of character for a P, and I called him twice, which is out of character for me also, because I am co-dependant (I was trying with all my might to be strong). But, he doesn't have a real phone; only a voice mail service, and my cell phone wouldn't work where I was, so I could not retrieve any of his messages until yesterday.

I was miserable being away from him (albeit more clear-headed), and hearing his messages (which were "loving" but devoid of the "I miss you's" and "I love you's" I spoke in my messages to him), so I flew back as soon as possible, arriving early this morning instead of Monday as planned.

I left to detach myself from him; to try to have a life without him.

This morning I drove the 20 miles out to the blue bus in the desert. I was greeted with vicious verbal/emotinal abuse. I was called a hustler, a snake, and a liar. I was told that I was trying to control him, that I don't feel love, and don't know what it is. He threatened to attack me physically, but didn't act on it. He said that all the crying, and "I love you's" were dysfunctional lies, and that he wanted emotional stability, simplicity, real interaction based on friendship, and mutual like attracts like.

I composed myself, and went into sensible, rational mode. He calmed down, and proceeded to cry like a baby, saying how sad he felt. He let me hold him, but still he would not hold me.

Meanwhile, as an aside, I returned home to find 2 emails in his account from a woman he apparently had an exchange with at a peace rally that he performed at yesterday. Since she was lengthy in her emails to him, I assume he sold her a CD, and she, attracted by his extreme good looks, figured she would see if she could make something "happen". Get this: She wrote him about how she saw into his dark nature, and he needs to work on his stuff, and she was the one who could help him do it. Anyway, I questioned him about this interaction, and he denied that it took place.

Finally, after much "sensible" (and to me, off the track) talk about the state of the world, he said he wanted to try again FROM THE BEGINNING. Then he asked me to leave, and said he'd be by tomorrow. So, according to P, we are still monogamous, but "we don't know what this is between us", and he needs to "experience" it, not talk about it, and despite counseling or anything else that may pass between us, there are to be no assumptions or commitments, or responsibilities. Just experience, that may or may not lead to trust and/or partnership.

There we are, folks. Destruction, Isolation, Renewal in less than 2 hours time on a gray Sunday morning. And, tomorrow: What? Creation? Then what? Beauty? And then? We all know what comes next. It's inevitable.

I want to run away, and I am not ready to let go, and I feel as if I am going insane, even though the core P pattern is plain as day, and moves in a circle without end.

"Meanwhile, as an aside, I returned home to find 2 emails in his account from a woman he apparently had an exchange with at a peace rally that he performed at yesterday. Since she was lengthy in her emails to him, I assume he sold her a CD, and she, attracted by his extreme good looks, figured she would see if she could make something "happen". Get this: She wrote him about how she saw into his dark nature, and he needs to work on his stuff, and she was the one who could help him do it. Anyway, I questioned him about this interaction, and he denied that it took place. "


Hi Senihele,

This part of your post has been bugging me and bugging me. Are you absolutely sure that this was an actual email. Is is possible he mailed it to himself? I have heard too many stories of P's faking notes, phone calls, etc. to make their target jealous. The email sounds exactly how he wants you to be with him. I don't know too many girls that would write an email like this to a virtual stranger. Just a thought. You know how P's love to manipulate. Just sounds too coincidental!!!

Betrayed

Senihele-

>I want to run away, and I am not ready to let go, and I feel as if I am going insane, even though the core P pattern is plain as day, and moves in a circle without end.<

At the risk of sounding like I'm on a bandwagon, waving a flag, I encourage you to RUN to the bookstore. Get the book Verbally Abusive Relationship.

It is so basic and easy to read but describes the Realities of "them" and "us". She leaves no doubt to the hope of making it with "them" called Reality 1 in her book.

I know if you have read my posts that you know I am in the last decades of my life. I married young and am not yet 60 but I'm getting close (not something I admit to ANYONE : -), so don't tell okay?

I have spent my whole life trying to twist myself for P's. Thinking if I could find that one "magic" key things would be different.

I will be able to successfully close the chapter on both P's. I KNOW a REAL relatinship is NOT EVEN a possiblilty. It is not in their "hard drive" . Not anywhere in their "files" No point of reference. What you want. . .P CAN'T GIVE. IT'S NOT IN ANY OF HIS PROGRAMS.

Girl!!! and all that black magic he's involved in, that's scary. That stuff is real. You can never know when he's going to hear from the "dark side" and do something crazy!

RUN SENIHELE. . .THIS P IS REALLY DANGEROUS! He sounds like a time bomb ready to go off.

You are young, talented, smart and beautiful. You have a lot to offer . A non P.

Please. . .go get that book. I'm going to pray your mind be clear enough to receive the message.

Let me quote from the book another passage that spoke to me; Again page 131.

Patricia Evans is doing an interview with a very articulate sixty-three-year-old who consciously choose to remain in a abusive relationship.

" I am married to a verbal abuser"
"How long have you been married to him?'
"Forty-two years?"
"When did you recognize that you were being verbally abused?"
"After about thirty years."
"And you decided to stay in the relationship?'
"Yes, but I think I choose the hardest path."

I can vouch for the reality of that.

I also read in the article I was reading about the Narcissist Personality Disorder.
This is not verbatim but you'll get the idea. This was also an interview with a NPD person, Sam Valkon I think, but anyway.

A woman said I love my NPD, I don't want to give up my relationship. What will it take to keep him/

Get this. . .you have to become an inverted NPD which basiclly means you have to give up your entire personality to worship them and your life has to revolve all around THEM. That was my interpertation of it. I'll go find the post and you can real it for yourself. I can vouch for that too. Then when you're ready to take back your own life, that unleashes a whole new arena of P behavior.

I know what it's like to be blind to it all and have the head knowledge. Been there too! Everybody else could see it but me.

Take care of yourself Senihele. He is just a pretty shell.
finished
The bottom line is this. . . .and I have only JUST come to this revelation. . . IT CANNOT WORK. . .EVER!

Hi Betrayed,
I am positive he didn't write them to himself. Here are the two emails, which go to show how women who are "target" material try to suck themselves in without even being targeted.

EMAIL 1 October 26, 2002 10:56 PM
Dear *****,
Today was such a feast of fortuitous collisions. I have no wheels here. Kinda economic on how I spend energy though personally I have an excess and cherish that. So I walked to Cids thinking I might find a ride to The Rally that would not hurt me. I found Robert Westerbrook, the mystery writer, who was volunteering and gave me a ride incredulous
that I wanted to go so early. Been involved in this equal rights peace nonviolence stuff for decades back east. Wanted to see the whole process out here. Didn't see why my being here sporadically should change that passion. Gotta DANCE! Gotta Dance! And these are some of the steps I take intuitively in the dance of life. Sorry I didn't recognize you from your performance but was talking to someone about the DC Marches some of my friends were involved with: heard but did not see you. Met Silvana in May at a Qi Dong class and was attracted by her energy but we had not spoken personally until today when the 3 of us seemed to roll together. We may be related, Silvana and I, through the
Brandenburg clan from Germany we found out in discussion after our leave taking from you which I thought was premature. You are a dark one, Mr. Clint. Your Maggie is not the only thing biting at your heels. My lightness and optimism, positive nature, often attracts that: I am Libra
and about balance and beauty. My current obsession is with a dark sort, who is also a musician/writer with a complex family and cultural history that haunts him. Silvana and I discussed a leave taking ceremony on the appropriate day, All Hallows Eve. She has some stuff to unload. So do you. I do too but mine is not as heavy cause I been dealin with it.. Yours is heavy cause you haven't. Don't know if I can ease you but feel we have some things to talk about. I'm good at punchin holes in clouds to let in some light. I have some time here when I am not working on my metal. You are a talented hunk but that is not my interest in you. Think we met at this Peace Rally to bring peace inside before we take it to the world. I'll be here through middle of November but the time is now to do something about communications by 10/30: which is the day of leave
taking ceremonies. You need to do one this year, this week and you know it in your heart of hearts. Don't let this slide into your next incantation. YOU HAVE LET STUFF GO TOO LONG. You need release. I am not a mystic, or any kind of self professed healer. I am an artist. I just recognized the need in you. They call me The Hammer. I am relentless in my art and with my friends about purity, honesty, and
self direction. You can reach me at ###-#### at my in town studio or ###-#### if I am at my outdoor studio across town pounding out the big Heart Armor forms on my earth anvil. I bike around but usually have my cell with me.
Don't mean to come on like a ton of bricks but time is short. That is not a vertically impaired joke. It is the truth. Hope to hear from you. If not, do your work , man. It is so much harder alone. You know that and know you need a trigger. I got some strong fingers. Here we are. How's that for Peaceniks?
Go hug a tree!
Linda

EMAIL 2 October 27, 2002 9:01 AM
Hey *****,
Right before i came out here in August for over a month, I'd been reading Beloved by Tony Morrison in unabridged talking book while making a fast round trip to N&S Carolinas. Of 12 tapes in the author's voice, finished all but the last one. Got here, got settled into my studio apartment, started working but missed the ending of the s tory in her words. Had me in its teeth like a badger. Yeah I'd seen the movie. Went to the library but had no card yet. Found the book and sat there reading till I finished it. Was rewarded with this quote and concept among the many treasures: Paul D was remembering his brother Sixo, and his obsession with the 30 mile woman while looking at his lover Setha not doing to good in the bed where her Mama died . Paul D quotes Sixo," She is a friend of my mind. She gather me, man, the pieces I am, she gather them and give them back to me all in the right order. It's good, you know, when you got a woman who is a friend of your mind.""
Curious about your story. Enjoyed hearing what I did in the unabridged version, in the author's own voice. Would like to hear more. Can't check this one out of the library.
Peace
The Hammer

Hi Finished,
I have read the book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship. I agree that P's are in Reality 1, and "Power Over" mode. That holds true for ALL abusers, yet it's just the tip of the iceberg with P, as you well know.

Insofar as my P encountering the "dark side" and doing something crazy, or simply becoming the "Terminator" out of nowhere, I am convinced following careful observation, that I will see it coming. That's the beauty of recognizing the Core P Pattern and it's phases. There are definate shifts of consciousness that are easily recognized once you know the cycles; for example: My P begins to "fade" when going from Creation/Beaty into Destruction/Isolation. He starts to become subtely ascerbic and withdrawn, and says he needs to go to the bus for a few days. When he expressed this desire in the past, I would become upset, and try to stop him from leaving. That would make him feel cornered, and he would go into full blown Destruction. Now, I say, "OK. See you in a few days.", and go about my business. He leaves, and then comes back in the Renewal/Creation phase. This P is very well aware of his evil P side, and hates the involuntary "switch" that goes off, causing him to shut down. This P is also psychotic, replete with hallucinations and delusional thinking (he is aware of this also), in addition to embodying the P factor. I have seen two distinct sides of this P: The human one that feels remorse, guilt, etc., and the P one that cannot feel anything.

I am 49 years old - no spring chicken here, good looks and talent notwithstanding. I do not intend to spend my life with this guy, although once I did. However, I do want to ease out of this relationship on my own timeline. I feel I have to process through and out the door, rather then abruptly end it. He is currently in counseling (HIS suggestion), and is taking Klonopin and Lithium all on his own. He has been much more balanced. The drugs seem to keep him in Creation/Beauty. My gut instincts tell me that this will not last. I know he'll go off again. I also know that I'll be out of this relationship by the end of the year.

((((((Finished)))))) You are still young. Life begins the moment you start to LIVE consciously!

> However, I do want to ease out of this relationship on my own timeline.
I feel I have to process through and out the door, rather then abruptly end it<

I understand now. And. . .hope it works out as you the way you want it to.

My experience with the "dark side" was that it was IMPOSSIBLE to predict. . . and VERY DANGEROUS. I never had any idea it was coming. But you seem to have a grasp on that.

The book was good wasn't it? Yes wit P's, it is the tip of the iceberg, but it's a teller of what's going on inside them.

Your'e right! I am young! Never think any different either :-)

finished

The book is EXCELLENT! I refer to it often.

Re. the "danger" factor: You can program a P, just like you program a computer. Subtley, verbally create a little box so that P has a frame of refernce. Place the idea in the box that if P gets violent in any way, he will either be in trouble with the law, have to leave, or both. If you don't do this, and P gets violent, s/he has no reference point. I have been using the technique, and it works.

Yes, you are young, and have all of the rest of your life to live! People check out of life at all ages - physically, mentally, and emotionally. Chronilogical age means nothing.

I have been through exactly this cycle. what makes them drop you and return?

>>I have been through exactly this cycle. what makes them drop you and return?<<

Algaringo. . .it is ALL about POWER and CONTROL. First they put us on the pedastal. . .then when they secure our love and devotion. . .we are devalued. . .less than garbage. Then. . .if we are dumped by them and start putting our lives back together without them. . .they return. As long as we are depressed, upset, reeling from shock they seem happy almost. The minute they see we can make it without them. . .OR any indication that we are moving on. . .they return. And then. . .they begin the loving/creation stage. It is the P game. For me it stopped when I found this forum and began to read, study and accept that I had been a P magnet. I work hard every day to break the cycle and old patterns of behavior that got me here. It is a tough road but staying in the cycle with P is definately the hardest way.

Stay with us Algaringo. . .there are great threads here. I think I have read every post. I relate to almost every one. I see my own story in others and I learn. . .and learn and learn. I'll never be able to quit. I'll always have to stay in touch to be aware.

It is hard for our brains to wrap around these truths. I had to work on keeping an open mind.

Be gentle with youself. It is a lot to absorb.

finished

Finished,

Something unexpected has happened. I believe my ex husband the P has disappeared. We have a daughter and he was giving us financial support that was generous so this is a very mixed blessing.

Last I talked to him he had had a serious relapse on his cocaine addiction after 13 years of sobriety and was checking himself into a 28 day program. He was supposed to call to let us know where he is. Never has. My daughter is not franctic but yes worried and has called him several times from her cell phone, so he'd know it's her.

I have the feeling that he will want to divest himself of the obligation to give us support. Therefore, I doubt he will contact us again. This is not a thought or theory, but a deep intuitive feeling, that I'm unlikely to see him again. I am almost happy if it weren't for my daughter and the money. I think that someone who's been in treatment for a week can call their family, so the fact that he doesn't answer the phone from any location, seems to say to me he's gone. I feel very weird.

I am having a lot of problems with loneliness. I do not have a lot of personal friends, though I have quite a few acquaintances. I have had some setbacks in my personal relationships. This is the part that is bothering me and with which I am trying to cope as best I can.

Your P sounds more like a manic depressive. I think it's difficult to tell. I thought my P was a manic depressive. Manic depressives do have a switch. Does you P become hyper, obsessional, talkative, have racing ideas, grandiose. Do you feel he's faking the remorse during the depressed cycle. I don't think true P's have remorse ever. They may say they do. If you P is a manic depressive, the lithium will definitely bring him down off the highs, but it's a crapshoot if the lows will disappear. He may very well become tractable. How is he doing?

I'll tell you how "my" P is doing since he left me Jan 2003 with a 103 degree fever and took all the blankets, came back in Mar 2003 to ask me to marry him again, then dumped me a week later because he deemed me a whore like his mother. "My" P is currently singing solo around town calling a song we wrote together one of his own (I am a musician). I last saw him hiding behind a tree watching me while I sold CDs for a band I manage. He stood there for 3 hours, by the way. And, unlike his usual pattern, he did not hook up with a new "love" over the summer. He has been alone since we parted company. I assume he is about to go into his winter "bardo". I'll tell you what: If he drops off the face of the Earth I will be happy as a pig in sh_t. I hate him because I still love him despite all the torment he put me through, and even though I have ostensibly moved on to sing with someone else, become part owner of a record company, manage the most popular band in the southwest, etc. The one thing I don't have in my life is someone to love who loves me back, and quite frankly, after my experience with P, I may never allow myself to fall in love again. It's just too damn painful. If you are with a P, GET OUT and STAY OUT. These people are broken, and can't be fixed.

Hi Algaringo,

>>I have the feeling that he will want to divest himself of the obligation to give us support. Therefore, I doubt he will contact us again. This is not a thought or theory, but a deep intuitive feeling, that I'm unlikely to see him again. I am almost happy if it weren't for my daughter and the money. I think that someone who's been in treatment for a week can call their family, so the fact that he doesn't answer the phone from any location, seems to say to me he's gone. I feel very weird.<<

Just a thought as I read through your post. One is he is in rehab. If he has just relasped after 13 years sobriety he is probably dealing with a lot of issues unrelated to you or your daughter. Just the experience that I have had with alcholics and addicts is that they usually reappear. He will most likely make contact at some point.

>>I am having a lot of problems with loneliness. I do not have a lot of personal friends, though I have quite a few acquaintances. I have had some setbacks in my personal relationships. This is the part that is bothering me and with which I am trying to cope as best I can. <<<

At times like these the loneliness seems aplified times a thousand. I wish I could to reach across the internet and give you a hug. Please know you are not alone. There is a bond and a friendship between us here in the forum. When someone is reaching out, I know that I want to offer whatever experience, strength and hope that I can. Many us us here genuinely care. We will be your "friends" and encourage you through your crisis.

((((algaringo))). Be kind and gentle to yourself. It will work out. . .

love
-finished

Senihele. . .SISTER FRIEND!!!! IT IS SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD TO SEE YOUR POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> I hate him because I still love him despite all the torment he put me through, and even though I have ostensibly moved on to sing with someone else, become part owner of a record company, manage the most popular band in the southwest, etc. The one thing I don't have in my life is someone to love who loves me back, and quite frankly, after my experience with P, I may never allow myself to fall in love again. It's just too damn painful. If you are with a P, GET OUT and STAY OUT. These people are broken, and can't be fixed. <<<

Oh Senihele. . .perfectly said. Me too. . .I hate him because I still love him. I wonder if I will feel that way forever.

>>>I may never allow myself to fall in love again. It's just too damn painful. If you are with a P, GET OUT and STAY OUT. These people are broken, and can't be fixed. <<<

More good words Senihele. . .I relate at EVERY level. I will never forget the pain and maybe that is fortunate because I like you will be extra ordinarily cautious about falling in love (if ever).

It is so good to see your post. I feel like I just heard from a very dear and precious friend. You have no idea how many times I have thought of your Love/Creation analogy. It was the first time I was able to see all the stages and how it related to me.

Thanks for the response. . .you ALWAYS have good words and great insight!

(((love & hugs)))
-finished

Hi Finished!
It's nice to know someone thinks about me. I think about you too, but have stayed away from these boards in order to move past the P experience. I feel that if I died in my house, no one would find me for weeks despite all the people I'm working with, and friends that I have. I am still in deep grief over P and can't sleep at night. I swear, but P just about "finished" me.

Hi Senihile

When I read this I felt the tears well up as I know how you feel. Since I moved away from the P with my daughter I have found work and many aquaintances but I can't trust mysself to trust new people, and I have nearly managed to do what the P tried to do - isolate me from friends and family. Luckily we go home every few months and I catch up with a social life for a few days. But I pray that for you, me and all the victims, we will put it past us, we will recover and we will reach out and make a new life.

Please keep in touch thru the forum - maybe we can bounce ideas off each other on how to get out and grab some life?

Thinking of you all

Recovery

Senihele,

I also have not been as active on the boards as I was in the beginning. When I share now it is from where I am at this moment and not where I was in the past. I've made progress but it has been without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever been through.

October 1st was a year since that whatever it was happened. I have had many of the same PTSD symptoms. This morning in the shower I noticed I had a rash all over me again. Also the feeling of being disoriented and extrememly emotional. I thought I was out of the woods but about Wednesday it started. Better today though. . .

>>I am still in deep grief over P and can't sleep at night. I swear, but P just about "finished" me.<<

Senihele. . .I have mourned for years over this. Just very recently I have noticed I am not carrying around that deep grief. I still have my times (this weekend) but they are less and less.

Please stay in touch from time to time. You cannot believe how happy I was to see your post. I'm not kidding here. . but just yesterday morning I consciously thought about you. You can imagine how excited I was then to see you here!

(((Love you Senihele)))
finished