New developments with my P:
1) P wants medication and counseling (his suggestion), to understand and eliminate the involuntary "switch" that goes off in his "heart". He wants to remain in Creation/Beauty, and do away with Destruction/Isolation.

2) P is devoted to taking his meds (Klonopin and organic Lithium (a product called Serenity that may be purchased on-line)), and enthusiastically goes to couples therapy sessions.

3) P announced that he no longer wants to wear a "facade" (his words) with me; that he needs to feel that he can be himself, with no pressure.

4) P relaxes, and displays genuine affection, and nurturing behavior sans facade.

5) P initiates a Samhain ceremony to release his involuntary negative behavior patterns from his relationship with me. Here is P's list:
Jealousy
Mistrust
Fear of betrayal
Negative assumptions
Associating past wounds with me
Fear of Change
Feeling overly responsible for the happiness of others
Sadness re. family loss
The protective old image of self
Sense of limitation re. playing/performing music
Fear of failure/success
A narrow isolationist attitude toward life
A negative future view for self and relationship with me
Poverty
Drinking alcohol in an unconscious, negative manner
Disconnected compartmentalization and mental emotional fragmentation
Negativity toward strangers

6) P acts on positive changes, and insists on working/contributing to household

Any comments?

Senihele-

Since you asked this is my opinion. Just an opinion.

I think it would be easier to tame a posionous snake. . .

This is a P. . .

From what I've learned there are degrees of P-ness. But a P is a P is a P.

finished

Senihele,

The way I see it there are two possibilities. Please understand these are only my opinions.

1. This man may not be be a Psychopath. He may just be a "jerk". It is my belief that there are many more jerks than psychopaths. By jerk, I mean someone who is consistently immature, irresponsible, and thoughtless at times in their behavior towards others. This man could also have a personality disorder other than psychopathy or he could be mentally ill. For example, consider that Lithium is a wonderful medication used in the treatment of bipolar disorder which may explain his increased connection with you and more appropriate behavior since his mood is more stable.

2. If this man is a Psychopath, there is no hope. He will not get better or improve. In fact, therapy has been shown to make psychopaths worse since they learn behaviors and techniques to manipulate and control from the therapy used to help them. If he is a Psychopath he will make your life a living hell no matter how removed you try to be. He will steal your heart, your money and your possessions and con you every way he can. He will shatter your self esteem, and brainwash you so that you question everything. You will be blessed with ill health, PTSD and perhaps permanent physical damage from abuse. You may recover, but you will never be the same as you were. It will effect all your other relationships, present and future. You will be among the walking wounded for a long time to come. You may not be able to work, play or relate with others for some time. You could even die. This is a serious serious situation for you Senihele. I believe strongly in NO CONTACT. Leaving my Psychopath broke my heart because I loved him. I loved someone that never existed.

I want those reading posts here on the forum to really really understand how devastating it is to be involved with a Psychopath and how serious the consequences are.

Senihele, I am scared for you.

The well known Cycle of Violence or Cycle of Abuse is what I see in your "theory". Senihile, DENIAL runs deep in power and control situations. Romanticising an abusive relationship is dangerous.

Here is the url to a site that talks about the cycle of abuse:

http://www.actabuse.com/cycleviolence.html

Please remember,the cycle includes physical, psychological, emotional, and spiritual violence.

WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR MEMBERS

Cherie

Posted by betrayed
11/1/02

Physical Violence

Physical violence always begins with verbal violence

Like other forms of domestic violence ( incest, molest) verbal, physical, emotional, economic, psychological. sexual, spiritual violence is SECRETIVE and progressive. Usually ( he can go “public”) only the partner of the abuser hears it or knows about it. His tactics can be covert or overt. It is insidious, defies articulation, difficult to explain or ask help from others. He can be so funny, glib and charming when others are present. In the beginning he may have been that way with us, but once there is a “commitment” (ours- he has no problem being married to two women at the same time) he becomes a completely different person. He is still funny, glib, helpful, charming to others, but to us he is hateful, hate-filled - constantly & progressively more-critical-vile-punishing-manipulative -angry—-toxic———controlling-sullen-irritable-unpredictable-undermining——-silent—-uncommunicative -disrespectful - humorless -explosive-hostile-sarcastic - unable or unwilling to express his feelings-jealous-quick with comebacks-o r put-downs-demanding -argumentative-he blames us for every thing-no matter what we do it is never right or good enough-no matter what we say or how we say it, he will take an opposite view, deny, diminish, twist ,or negate what we have to say. He negates, denies, diminishes us, our existence and our experience. He will deny the abuse, (acting as if nothing has happened) and he will do it again (even if he apologizes) and it always gets worse. He gives others his undivided attention, using them as wedges (come betweens) to exclude, devalue and /or diminish us and to prevent intimacy or communication. He will tell them that we are delusional, “crazy”, mentally ill, menopausal, “out of control”, got what we wanted, menstrual, premenstrual, a man hater, a man basher, controlling, he was in a black out, he is” new “ in sobriety, he has a lot of “time” in sobriety, he’s on a spiritual path, he prays the rosary, he prays on his knees, he sings in the choir, he can’t understand what the problem is, and/or that he is the one being abused. He will encourage other men (especially his “friends”- they feed off us and each other-), the family, the group, our peers to (knowingly or unknowingly) abuse or torment us , while he is always innocent, sometimes he will even feign “concern” for us.. He loves to put on the “con” the situation will never be resolved—it always gets worse. ever increasing negativity and brutality. The more we tell him, the more we try to communicate, the more he will withhold—he is entertained by our attention, distress and pain—he will strut about basking in the power that he feels. The more we accomplish thinking he will be happy for us , the more he trivializes and diminishes our efforts. His criticism of us and those that are close to us becomes progressively more cruel and brutal. The more we let go and depend on others for companionship, he becomes still more angry, miserable and hostile. He is never satisfied no matter what we do or don’t do..and heaven forbid we should react to his cruelty and mistreatment...He sees us as the enemy, or a threat who must be controlled. His words & actions are his weapons. To himself he is who he “thinks” he is -an ideal image he takes himself to be. He doesn’t have to deal with his anger, fear, self loathing. When these do surface their source to him is us, his partner (projection)Through this projection he will blame us for all the abuse that we suffer. In order to maintain this ideal image he has of himself he will be compelled to increasing self aggrandizement and a correspondingly greater disparagement of us. He is terrified of being abandoned (and has no desire to overcome it.) He will start something over nothing so he can rage, make a mess and leave slamming the door and/or screech off in his vehicle or roar off on his bicycle. He will control & manage all physical, verbal, sexual, emotional, financial, spiritual abandonments-if we do leave him, threaten to leave, tell him no -he will punish us (and our children). He orchestrates all abandonments.


http://www.geocities.com/misogynon/physical.htm

senihele-

>I want those reading posts here on the forum to really really understand how devastating it is to be involved with a Psychopath and how serious the consequences are.
Senihele, I am scared for you.<

Me too Senihele. You know I have been since we have been posting back and forth. I sense you are in a dangerous place.

I pray you will get a revelation of that. I really care about you. . .

finished

WoW! This is my life! i can't believe how you are describing so well what life is with a p.

This morning i dreamed that i was going back to him.
And i don't like it
it scares me
i use to not be scare
i thought i could beat him to his game
but i am tired of trying to think that i can make him happy

reading you now is helping me climbing this ridiculous mountain of bs
why can't it just stopps
all those feeling for a person that cannot help it but to just hurt people

a few times he told me that he did not know who he is sometime
and my heart would go calidistic don't know the meaning but i just spoke in tongue maybe

i feel so blessed to have found this group,

i am so tired of loving him
i wish it would stop
i am afraid to fall again
i really fear him now
it is a slow death to be with a p

thank you for sharing the dna of a life with a p

freedumb

i meant to respond to Cherie's description of life with a p.
i hate myself to be this way loving someone that do not need my love at all
God knows where our heart is we want to do good toward someone whom we love
but the goodness is not receive as such
he admitted to me that his first love is money
so that should tell me a lot
if i be smart enough to let go

freedumb

and i meant to say to neverthesame, i like your answer very much

freedumb

Freedom. . .
I MADE myself do what they told me here in the forum. STAY AWAY.

I work with him and have physically been in his presense two times since Oct 1st.

I loved this person, passionately, profoundly, genuinely.

I keep reading everyday about P behavior. My feelings are changing. So will yours if you KEEP AWAY FROM HIM.

He is an evil and dangerous person. . .you can't help him. . .and he doesn't want your help. He only wants your money.

You CAN walk away freedom . . .(be strong in the Lord and the power of His might. . .) you can do it!!

finished,
I too, work with a P., he use to be my business partner and my best friend. I finally woke up one day and saw the light. This P. is so evil, so cruel, uses and abuses others for his own satisfaction. Greed and status is so important to him. He admits to me he charms people to get what he wants. I fell into his trap, now it hurts me so much to see how I was used and abused. He gets joy out of others pain. When I stood up to him I became his target to eliminate. He has bullied me and found a group of coworkers to help him. I also go to the bully website, but find this website also very informative because my bully is is a P. He meets almost everyone of the criterias mentioned here, and he even admits some of them, openly. He likes who he is, takes no responsibility for how his behavior effects others, doesn't want to change and doesn't think he needs to. I would never want to hurt another human being the way a P. does. I am working from home now, to STAY AWAY FROM HIM, as you say. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, as a result of being around a P. bully for the past year and a half. I have been betrayed in the worst kind of way. I feel all the pain in some of the postings here. I am so glad to have found this sight. I am in the healing process. Still haven't decided what to do about my job. Right now Im just taking a big long break away from a very toxic environment. Eventually I will be strong enough to do what is best for me.

Betterway. . .

>I too, work with a P., he use to be my business partner and my best friend.<

Same here.

First he was my friend.

He wanted me to go into business with him and at first I wouldn't. Then a few years later I did. . . He was always promising me this position or that and lied to me so many times. So many things that were supposed to work out never did. Then I opened a store for him and it was supposed to be 50-50. I could never get him to talk to me about it. Finally, I had to quit because it cost me more than I was making with my car expenses and all. I told him I was going to try to make it on my own. He said go for it. I did. And then he told me that the company we represent had found out what I was doing. (I was going with a competitor). I called the company (unbeknown to him) and talked to them. I told them what I was doing and it was the first they had heard about it. My deal never worked out and I know now he sabatoged it.

For me, once I was traumatized, I seemed unable to find my way out. It seemed like I knew what was going on but my mind just couldn't grasp it. It was almost like I HAD to stick around for the grand finale to find out what I was dealing with.

Today he drove by me. When I saw his vehicle. . .my mind quit working. I had only seen him two times in person since Oct 1. I was talking to my daughter and my mind froze. I don't even remember what we talked about from then on.

He called. I saw his number on the caller id. My mind started whirling. He left a message in my voice mail. It was about business, it always is, never anything personal. But my mind was not my own for about two hours. . .I started obsessing. . .but at least it is not for as long and I know I'm doing it.

>I am working from home now, to STAY AWAY FROM HIM, as you say.<

That's what I'm doing also. I would never be able to think much less get away from him if I were anywhere in close proximity on a daily basis. I feel retraumatized even seeing his vehicle.

I just keep reading the posts here on the forum. The validation and support helps me stay focused on getting away and staying away.

I'm so glad you are here!

finished

I think the guy's got bipolar.

People with that disorder in the manic state tend to exhibit behavior resemblant of narcississm.

My dad for example, almost certainly had bipolar, but was suspected of being a narcissist.

I have bipolar too, although because I'm taking enough medicine to kill a mule, I'm a bit more mellow, although I still seem to have a sense of humor left.

-Delta2477

Hi Delta2477, welcome to the forum.

I have never read any indicators of bipolar and narcisstic exhibibiting similar symptoms. We try to keep the focus on discussion about Psychopaths and let people come to their own conclusions and not directly offer any diagnosis. We do have a very interesting thread on difference between NPD and psychopathy

Best regards,

Di