Dearest friends,

i finally did it! i did not do it!
i did not see him, it was not easy

the day, december 9, he came out of prison
i started to work overtime at my job,
today is my first day off.

He's been calling me a lot,
at first i would talk to him
to see where his head is at
it is worst than ever
the same old song even more mad
because i quit sending him money
quit visiting him when he was in prison
he even called my husband
to ask him permission to give a gift
to our youngest son
my husband was nice to him
my husband tells him that it was up to me

your group is a life saver
it puts strenght in my mind
that i am not the only one going through this
i want to be a winner
not a loser

i am glad that there is still people
that care in the world
because being with a p
and getting wripped off by business people
it makes you feel that you are all alone

it seems that the world is being taking over
by psychopath
there is a lot of people letting these men
taking over our mind
we do not want to kill them
but what do you do with so many psychopath
like Hilter and Pol Pot and 9/11 men that caused it
and many more men out there
why do we let man like these
have an army of people
who are called to kill
come into private home
kill just because you do not believe like they do

it is like that with my p
which he is not anymore
(now doubt wants to creep in but
i am rejecting it
rebuking it in the name of Jesus)
my ex-p tells me lies about anything
he wants me to believe it
and he wants money too
he does everything in his power to get it
sometime it is just with a look
i know that is what he wants
if not he will get violent with me
so i do not want to rock the boat
i keep on giving
which i love to do but i am totally broke
i need to use money wisely


it is a battle to stop thinking about him
this morning when i first woke up
the first thought was him
i have to be out there to win
i have a responsability toward my family
to do the right thing
today i stop answering his call
i am praying a lot
even praying in tongue in my head
to shut the desire to see him

i think about you all
your good words of advice
your feeling the same as i do
your energy of caring
of wanting me to do the right thing
are guiding me in the right path

the love of a loving God is present
(i have doubt kreeping in but i won't let it
battle, battle)
i am giving Him all the glory
i thank Him for guiding me here

thank you so much for sharing your personal life


freedom
i will submit my new name

he came by my job today telling me he loves me even though he has a girlfriend i told him i just want to be with one man and i do not want to share
it is harder to forget my feeling after seeing him
i just feel like shooting my brain so i will stop thinking about seeing him today
he said he would wait for me
after work he is not there which i am glad but it hurts
i just feel that he came to visit just to hurt me more

freedom

Freedom,

I am so glad for you, you set your limits and told him exactly what is and is not acceptable for you. Good for you.

It is also hard for me to stop thinking about P after an encounter, or after a memory comes back. I clean house, and find some of his things. If they are just junk, I throw them out, but if they are pictures of his family, or other irreplacable things with sentimental value, I feel that I must return them. So I am making a box for a friend to bring him after I finish getting his stuff together.

And I obsess also, it's normal to do that, but I keep putting one foot in front of another, taking care of my own business, and it eventually lessens. It gets easier and goes away faster with time.

I am continuing to review and analyze some things in my mind about the "relationship" and breakup. The breakup took over a year. I read some of my letters to him from "the beginning of the end". In spite of the pain, at that stage, I was very clear and very strong about what I couldn't accept from him (fraud, deceitfulness, secretiveness), and why I wanted it to end. Then I reviewed things he wrote to me. I NOW realize that he was playing me like a hooked fish, stringing me along, devaluing, discarding, and slapping me away when he had someone else to entertain himself with, then reeling me back in, when his other relationship fizzled. This went on for over a year. Until HE DECIDED it was time to end. And during that final year, I had more than a bellyful of agony many, many times. He played me like a hooked fish, kept me isolated and away from healthy influences and fed me the poision of his lies until I was mentally unwound and half dead emotionally, tossed me back overboard when I was too tired to swim and dragged me along with more lies, till I was half beat, and then pulled me back in by the same hooks his maniuplations had planted in my gut years before, early in the relationship. I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.

I heard from people online and in books that P's are this way. For them it is all about control. They don't really want us, but they want to be the one to decide when and how to end it. And they want to exact revenge for whatever insults or injuries they think we subjected them to. And due to my "trance state", I believed his version about what was occurring between us, and his reasons (all my fault, of course) for closing himself off, for withdrawing, for disappearing, and finally for leaving. And when he came back, to my grateful, guilt-ridden heart, I was so grateful and full of self-doubt that I never questioned the lies that were transparent to observers. But I didn't dare question, because I was so afraid to lose the liar. I wanted to cling to and believe that pretty, pretty, glittering fantasy painted by his lies, in colors larger than life. Plastic. I placed my faith in P, instead of in God. I trusted P, over and over, instead of the insights, good intuition, and facts that God and His universe had provided me with.

I am sharing my experience (and confessing my own stupidity) with you because I experienced exactly what you described:
"I just feel that he came to visit just to hurt me more"

For what it's worth, I want to validate your feeling and tell you, that is exactly my P did when he came back. Over and over, and over, more deeply painful, soul wrenching, and disorienting for me, each time. I was in such a spin I didn't know which way was up. This began at a slower frequencyand a lower intensity early in my association* with P, but was worse and cycled more frequently in the end.

I am sure that you are right, and please don't shoot your brain! As someone else here has said, it's "just" the trauma bonding. It helps me to realize this, and that the obsessive thoughts are actually a normal response for someone who has gone through the abuse of a P relationship. And that it really DOES get better with time.

You know the mantra, "detachment, aloofness, dignity, no contact, no engagement, no response". It helps me to focus on those words, and to know that I'm respecting my own feelings, boundaries, and self worth, and doing what is best for me.
For me, now, (even though I sometimes still obsess), I can finally look back at what happened and see it without feeling the hurt all over again. I also see it differently. When I was in it, people would tell me that he was manipulating, and I couldn't see it, now I do. And it has taken many months of detachment for me to heal strong enough to handle looking back, without experiencing the pain anew, and to see it for what it was.

May God strengthen you, protect you, and shelter you under his wing,

Love,
Leti

PS I really like it that you changed and claimed your real name, Freedom!

* I now prefer to call it an association instead of a relationship. For me it is a better description.

>>I NOW realize that he was playing me like a hooked fish, stringing me along, devaluing, discarding, and slapping me away when he had someone else to entertain himself with, then reeling me back in, when his other relationship fizzled. This went on for over a year.<<

Leti,
You said many insightful things in your post. I many times these last few months have felt as if I am being stringed along for the P's enjoyment.

>>He played me like a hooked fish, kept me isolated and away from healthy influences and fed me the poision of his lies until I was mentally unwound and half dead emotionally, tossed me back overboard when I was too tired to swim and dragged me along with more lies, till I was half beat, and then pulled me back in by the same hooks his maniuplations had planted in my gut years before, early in the relationship. I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.<<

Wow, this is what is happening too me, exactly. There are people in my office that would treat me respect. But the P. will have nothing of it. He makes life at the office so impossible for me. The games he plays that others choose to play along with or ignore just destroy my spirit. Some of people are probably oblivious to most of it. His games are so sneaky and underhanded and he is using most of the people their to play them.

>>They don't really want us, but they want to be the one to decide when and how to end it. And they want to exact revenge for whatever insults or injuries they think we subjected them to. And due to my "trance state", I believed his version about what was occurring between us, and his reasons (all my fault, of course) for closing himself off, for withdrawing, for disappearing, and finally for leaving.<<

I know the end is near. That is what I fear. In my own sick way, I fear my ability to survive the end. My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind. I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting. Which is very confusing to me, because I have heard that P's don't have empathy. However, maybe his hurting is all part of how he continues to manipulate me. And also his way of dealing with someone actually sticking up for their rights, after being under his control for so so long. I believe he knows how to play the game to the very end, hurting me as much as he possibly can, including the illusion that he is the one being abused and hurting.

>>I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.<<

Same here, leti.

>>I can finally look back at what happened and see it without feeling the hurt all over again. I also see it differently. When I was in it, people would tell me that he was manipulating, and I couldn't see it, now I do.<<

Your words are encouraging. This is where I hope to be someday. I still tend to suffer he pain over and over again with the memories. I'm curious, Leti, how long have you been completely away from the P.?

Freedom, my prayers are with you. I hope you will see as we all share our experiences, that you are not alone. The P. behavior does have a pattern and the pain can get better. I experience times of being better and then I fall backwards. When I fall backwards the pain can be as strong as ever, thats part of my PTSD. But I do have hope. Like Leti says keep putting one foot in front of the other.

betterway

My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind. I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting.

Betterway,

With Ps it is always our fault. I ended the relationship with the P but of course when he came back months after, I said what I thought and this time he ended it, I am sure it was his revenge, he was waiting for me to say what I thought in the deepest sense to have material to justify a zest my craziness. I felt terrible, but I think that if I were going through that again, I would give one inch of my thoughts and feelings: it is kind of disgusting they love that , so they manipulate more.

Earlier today I wrote:
>>My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind.<<

I have been thinking about this today amongst my tears. I know that I am so innocent. The only thing I am guilty of is being a loyal true friend. I could be trusted with anything. I had him on a pesdatal. I respected him. I thought he would never hurt me, but right in front of my face I saw him hurting others, and I ignored it. He changed in an instance and didn't seem to care. I was put on the back burner while he played his new little games. At the same time he was enjoying the hurt and pain he was inflicting on me. I fought back the best way I knew, which nothing will beat a P. Fighting back only made him increase the level of pain. I am not proud of the way I treated him and I apologized many times to him for my behavior(that was my trying to get him to understand and to let me back into his good world). I was human. I cared about others. I felt bad if I hurt others. I hurt for I feel betrayed, cheated, lied to, and humiliated, etc. The P. believes that I am trying to control him because I want him to change. He says he will never change. There is nothing I can do. The P will not change. I am the only one that can change. I have to keep moving despite the pain. Someone described it as a excrutiating loss. I agree. This pain affects all area of my life. Others suffer as a result of my pain. I feel bad about that. All I can do is try to heal the best I can.

<
hopeful, I have been playing over and over in my mind what I will say to the P. next time he "acts" concerned about us no longer being friends. It is an important reminder to me that I will just be playing into his games by expressing my feelings. It is very discusting that they enjoy knowing how much we hurt. It is an ego trip for my P. Thanks for sharing hopefull.

betterway

"They don't really want us,"
how true this is
one second he acts like he wants me even call my husband to ask him to be with me telling him how much he loves me
and then the next second he wants to kill me,
i ruined his life
so i tell him that is why i should not be with you because i am ruining your life and then he says no i did it to myself
he already found another woman which i am glad so he won't need me so much moneywise but he still need some extra
so when he says he wants to see me i tell him you know you will be asking me for money and he keeps saying he is not he denies that he is asking for it
and when i would give in and go see him before he went to prison he would preach to me after i would give him money that i was buying his friendship and when i would refuse to give him money he would get violent and say that i have another man in my life
and would you believe i am really tempted to see him again
he calls me again at my job today
when i told him so many time not to call me at work
he knows what time i get off
i told him today i am taking a lunch break in half an hour i will call him then
he says that he has to go to a AA meeting after the call
so i call and he is not there
then after my lunch break he calls again at my job to talk
i tell him again do not call at my job
i get off about 8 or 9 and we can talk then
he says ok and when i call he is not there
he does that a lot
and that AA meeting was change to checking about a paint job for his motorcycle
he changes his stories a lot
so i get mad at myself
i know he is just playing with my mind
and i am about to get sucked in again
and i really don't want to do it
because the more i saw him before the more he is getting violent with me
and yesterday at work he was talking about how much he hates his mom and her boyfriend which they are really nice to him i met them many time
he still has clothing there from when he lives there and he was saying that he wants to have the boyfriend arrested for stealing his clothes and i know it is not true so he is talking crazy he seems worse
he has been visiting a friend and i keep contact with him because he is from another country like me and he was telling that p comes visit him and he always wants 20 dollars before he lives the house and he gives in too
so i know he has not change a bit
p is telling me that he has change but not to me his conversation seems scary to me one second he is a nice guy and the next he is evil
i keep praying and mantra and speaking in tongue
but i can tell my body wants to see him one more time
and how many time i told God if you get me out of the situation when we were alone i would never come back
he would be so crazy with me
a few years back we were in my car he was trying to prove to me that he loves me and i was telling him that i did not believe him because a few hours before he had called his ex-girlfriend telling her he loves her and wants to marry her
so he calls my husband on the phone and then he pulls my mirror off my windshiel with his bare hand it cracked the windshield and he says now do you believe me that i love you
and i said no i don't and then we got into a kick fight i hurted his lips he was going to sue me
so anyway we ended up going into the room we had rented and he still wanted to have sex with me i wanted to leave but i had to do what he says he finally fell asleep and when he sleeps he sleeps hard that is when i get away and promise to myself that i will never come back to him and i keep my words for a few weeks or months and then i come back
and this years he did it again in my car he was mad at me again for no reason imagining that i see other man and he hit my dashboard so hard it cracked and again i was telling myself this is it no more p
and i was looking at the shape of the crack and it is a circle with a cross on top of the circle
so i told him what his fist did and told him that it will remind me of how Jesus die on the cross for us and it reminds me not to let him in my car again
well you know it did not last we were togethere again a few weeks later i always tell him before we see each other now you're sure you are not going to hit me and he says no honey i don't want to go to jail i won't hurt you
so i go again and we have another fight

yesterday he wants me to look into his eyes i tell him all i see is money sign
i tell him that i do not want to be alone with him because the last 2 times we saw each other he was violent toward me and he denies it

thank you for talking to me but you know the feeling of the pulling one more time
i was so strong and now i feel very weak
i need to go to bed
i will be stronger tomorrow after a good night rest
i am working long hours which is good because i do not have time to sin

love you all
yes i need to register my new name
freedom

Betterway wrote: I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting. Which is very confusing to me, because I have heard that P's don't have empathy.

BW, I believe that they are capable of hurting (just not capable of empathy). I know that my P was hurt by his family's eventual rejection of him. Few of his siblings can stand to be around him and only one or two of them will speak to him at all. I am sure that my P is alone and is lonely, and just doesn't have a clue as to why. And this does hurt him. Sometimes, when he slows down enough and shuts up long enough to observe his own circumstances, personal, social, and professional, he is sad and bewildered. He has no idea why he is in such a state. That is one symptom of his lack of empathy. Somewhere I read that P's lack "emotional memory", and that this is what is required for empathy. When he is sad, hurting, depressed, it is just for that moment. When he recovers and starts to con again, he doesn't associate his conning with the loneliness and sadness he felt before and will feel again later, after his lies are found out. The problem is that he doesn't remember how he felt when he was down, so he lacks true empathy for himself, (as well as for others). Anyway, that is one theory of the P's hurt. They can be self-pitying, but I think that part is really an act. They don't remember how they felt when they hurt, so that is why they can't empathize with the hurt of other people, and the lack of empathy with their own prior sadness, makes them unable to learn from their mistakes.

"However, maybe his hurting is all part of how he continues to manipulate me. And also his way of dealing with someone actually sticking up for their rights, after being under his control for so so long. I believe he knows how to play the game to the very end, hurting me as much as he possibly can, including the illusion that he is the one being abused and hurting."

Very, very true. Kris wrote something about this exact illusion a while back also. It is definitely part of the P experience!

Something else about your post that got me was the difficulty of working in a situation where he is manipulating everyone around you. I don't have commone work contacts with him, only social contacts. But one thing that did help me was to refuse to discuss him with others. Often, people will come up to me and make a remark about him. I usually acknowledge their observation and then change the subject. Example: "P is such so funny, every time I walk into his office I leave laughing", I reply, "Yes, he really is a funny guy.", and then move on to something else. Even if they say something negative about him to me, I don't join in, unless the person is a very close friend of mine. I just acknowledge/validate their feeling, "Oh, really, wow...(then I shrug my shoulders and change the subject)". Something that helped me in this situation and also in a previous unhealthy work environment, was to pray some of the psalms, I can't remember the number of the one that helped most, but the one I used to read most was about being surrounded by his enemies, by deceitful men who lay out traps, and calling upon God for deliverance. It helped me to focus above, to detach from the deceitrul/cruel ones and their traps and to attach to an almighty and loving God. I used to keep a bible in my purse and sometimes pull it out of my purse and read it in the bathroom during the day. I'd read that psalm before going in, and as many times as necessary during the day. I wish I could remember the number of it. It was a wonderful help.

"I know the end is near. That is what I fear. In my own sick way, I fear my ability to survive the end."

Oh, how I felt that too... but believe me, "The End" of the P association was the beginning of my freedom and it planted the seeds of renewed health for me. I wish every goodness for you and want to assure you that life with the P is just a counterfeit of what life is meant to be. I have a long way to go, but there is so many good fellings that I am learning to feel again. It really does get better after they're gone for good. I had even forgot how to trust and enjoy my female friends. I remember telling one good woman friend, "Thank you for caring, but right now even kindness hurts." She stood by me, through all the craziness, obsession, and everything else. And she kept her mouth shut about my problems.

The final separation from my P began about 10 months ago. Since then there has been minimal contact. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to continue seeing a P through work. I stand in awe of you who are working through it all in spite of that ongoing contact.

Truth will triumph, and holding it in your heart and in your mind, YOU will overcome.

Blessings,
Leti

PS I MISS KRIS!!!! Kris, where are you??? You have been such an inspiration to me. I hope all is going well for you.

>>I can't imagine how difficult it must be to continue seeing a P through work. I stand in awe of you who are working through it all in spite of that ongoing contact. >>

Hi Leti,
I am working from home now (have been for 3 months). I have minimal contact with the P. However the games still come through even with a little contact, or no contact. I feel the games being played even when we don't speak. His having no contact with me is a game. It hurts me to let go, it hurts to stay. I am so very angry that he made the office so intolorable that I had to leave. I loved my job. I am in isolation now, except for the clients I see on occassion. Isolation is very hard for me. I need to be around people, I like people (It suprises me that I just wrote that, after this last year, I have done alot of generalizing and was mad at all people for awhile). I like what you said about even kindness hurt for awhile. I know what you mean.

For a couple weeks I had lost the feeling of needing to talk to him. I didn't want to call him. I didn't care if he called me. But then I slip. The feelings come back.

The stuff you wrote about emotional memory and lack of empathy all makes since to me. I can know in my head what the truth is, but to feel it and live it is another story.

I have a very busy two days ahead of me. Which should be helpful for me. All your posts are so very helpful and inspirational to me. I found this forum just in time.

More later!

betteway

Freedom,

Your story sounds extremely complicated. I wish I could help you, figure it out. What has helped me was to focus on something else until it works, despite that feeling that I needed to call the P again or despite that obessive thought seeking explanation. I am sure that you are scared because he is violent. Write down everything that happens, if the day comes that you need tp put a restraining order. But think of yourself more and more. Take a serious brake.

Freedumb,


I forgot to say, that I have been in that situation, when you feel that everything is wrong, but you still feel like going back to the P. Even when I had all my friends telling that I should pull back. What helps is that is to think o fthe future. where do you see yourself in 2 years, 5 and 1o with such a relationship?

thank you so much for sharing
i am reading it all and it is so hard right now
it is unbelievable

i have a lot of friends who knows about the situation
even at my job i told the manager because after he left i was trying to find the number of the battered woman to talk to my counselor and i could not find it and the manager saw me on the phone when she said we should not be and i told her that what i was doing because i do not want him to bug me here and she said if he tries to come back she will tell him to go and she is not afraid of him
i told her i was sorry to bring this here i can quit the job and she doesn't want me to quit
so i have a lot of support but

he is calling me and i am listening to his conversation telling me he is from the mafia
and i am in
i can't get out
i know he is lying but i play his game and say well the real reason i cannot see you is because someone called me again (because i used it before when he would not leave me alone) so i tell him that yeah the person told me to leave you alone or i would get kill and i think he believes me because the first time i did this he called his ex telling her to leave me alone which we are on friendly term and i did not say it was her so anyway it gets pretty crazy so he tells me that no one will touch me unless he says so that is how powerful he is and i say well you see that is why i do not want to be with you here you are again terrorizing me
so i don't want to see you anymore
leave me alone
and he'll say but i want you i love you and he'll remember something romantic he told me and i know it is all bullshit and we'll joke about the truth that he is really a manhoe a gigolo and i don't have the money to give him
and he denies asking for it
writing all this down is helping me to see how dumb i am

what do i have to do to change my name
freedom

Freedumb,

you are not dumb you just been very manipulated, blackmailed and isolated from the truth and reality. try to get back to it, slowly but surely. Hang it there. Zero contact is the best and consider a restraining order if things get really bad. Courage you will make it.

Hopeful wrote: Write down everything that happens, if the day comes that you need to put a restraining order.

This is SUCH an excellent suggestion. If it is written down for your own personal record, when the time comes to write out a statement, be questioned, or give testimony, you will have clearly in your mind what he already said and did, as well as the dates and times. You will be able to quote him almost verbatim, calmly, and with an emphasis on relevant facts. I wrote things down for myself, dates, times, details, and later distributed the document to a few trustworthy people. So that if anything happened to me, someone would know, and could get the police involved. I then found out that my letters to friends would not be legally admissible (remember Nicole Simpson?). But later on, I did an affadavit, which is admissible. Having already written it out once helped to keep the affadavit factual and accurate. Lawyers, judges, and police are not too interested in a victim's emotions, ("just the facts, Ma'am"). So writing it out beforehand helped when the time came to take legal action. I could do so without forgetting important facts, (it was hard for me to get everything out and also remain coherent because of the "story within a story" that is characteristic of life with P), without getting hysterical (as I am prone to do), and without adding my own emotional reactions to what happened. I kept my own journal for the emotional stuff, and also kept another short document that explained just the who, what, when, and where (and only a little "why")of what he said and did.
Both the fournal and the factual record helped in another way also. When I started to soften or have feelings of wanting him back, I could read about what had actually happened, as well as the whole record (my journal and letters to him, and his letters back to me). It helped pull me out of denial several times.
Good luck,
L.

well so much for my new name
i gave in
went and saw him last night
and it was so good to be with him
but i was hurting too because he is acting
the same way with me he asked for money again
a few minutes after we were together
i was like here we go again
and i ignore it and try to have a good night with him
and now he is not calling me which is great
he might not call me for a few weeks or days
and i miss him
at the same time that i am glad he is not calling
that way i am saving money
anyway i am very sorry that i disapointed everybody who's been telling me to leave him alone
i had some people telling me that after while they won't have any respect for me if i keep this s*** up
and i can understand because we just do not match with each other i am 50 and he is 35 i feel so old with him but when i hang around people my age i feel like a million bucks i ignore my age
this is not the first time another young guy fell in love with me
this guy admitted to me that at first he was using me
then he fell in love with me
that was another wild goose
we are friend now
he realizes that it was a freaky thing
and he was violent with me too i had to call the police on him for hurting me
he was very jealous i could not talk to nobody

i know the age for me did not matter when i was 14 and on
i always was friend with older man i kept meeting guys from other country Africa, India, Japan, English, American
they wanted to marry me but i did not believe in marriage i felt that the world had enough children i was a foster child
i lived in 11 different foster family so anyway to make a long story short now i have 5 children 3 are handicap, a very good husband and we take care of his brother who is schizophrenic so i feel that i need to take a brake
because i have not chosen to be married and have children they chose me i was just going along i was too weak to put my foot down and say no i do not want to get married which i did tell him i do not want to but it was the will of God he is the father of all the children we are more good friends who got married because we had a child together

so now i am trying to deal with this silly situation of addiction i am addicted to p and he is addicted to my money and he swears it is not for the money he is with me well that is very debate table
i am listening to his cd he is good he could be so far but he ruins everything with his own fault (saying it is the fault of other people) and sing a song admitting he is only the one to blame) we all pray that he would use, for good, the gift, God, has given him
it is so simple but he complicates everything
he is like a child a con adult a person without a conscience so why am i attracted to him when i know the truth about this relationship

forgive me to be bothering you with this soap opera on New Year's night
before i go see him i always ask him a million time now you are not going to hurt me and make a hateful speech and he says no baby i won't i will be very nice and you will not ask me for money and he says he never does and he does it
so anyway again
Happy New Year and let us rejoice
this is a new day that the Lord hath made
let us rejoice and be glad in it



freedom hum! dumb again

(((((((((((Freedom))))))))))))

Please don't put yourself down because you gave in and saw him. I believe that recovery from this addiction happens step by step. You take each step as you're ready. Right now you are making yourself aware of what he is doing and of your own reactions to it. As for friends who say they won't respect you, maybe they are acquaintances rather than true friends. One of my friends (only one) listened to my "soap opera" for a few YEARS. She always said, "Whatever you decide, however it turns out, I will be there for you."
If you read back through old posts here, you will know that this forum will also be here no matter what you do. No matter how many times you go through the cycle with P.
Sometimes people fall back in their recovery, I think the secret is to be kind with yourself, and start back from wherever you are. It is hard for some of us to be kind to ourselves, we may have tapes running in our heads of criticism from years past, from family members, "friends", or ex-partners. A new year is a good time to become aware of those old tapes and start replacing them with some new ones that are loving, confirming, and build our strength. God loves you, and he doesn't care how many times you cycle through the misery, or how much of it you think is "my own fault", he loves you through it all. And he rejoices when you turn to Him and His son. His word is a source of wisdom, strength and hope. That's where I find alot of good "new tapes", (smile). I think that Psalm 140 even talks about the P "relationship", for me it describes it.
You are becoming aware of what this P "relationship" really is. You are questioning the reasons why you continue to engage in it. You will find your own answers to that in your own heart. And they will probably be different than anyone else's answers.
I believe that you are learning, questioning, and growing. I believe that anyone who continues in that path of growth will eventually find their way out to a better situation.

Wishing you blessings in this New Year.
-Leti

Leti,
I really like your response to Freedom. It is full of unconditional love. Which is something all of us need fighting an addiction. I now understand my ex-boyfriend and his addiction to alcohol. An addiction is a terrible, terribble thing to deal with. Relapses in recovery can happen. I agree recovery is a process and I do have to learn to not beat myself up so much. I am moving forward, even if only tiny tiny steps, it is better than where I was.

I have started over in my head the "No Contact" rule so many times. At this point I am not able to do it, but I am able to learn all I can, understand P relationships more, learn to think more positively, learn to work on me. I'm not even sure I want to do the "No Contact". I do not know what I want. I just know I don't like where I was and I am feeling better as I continue to learn all I can, and share with others that know exactly where I've been. My emotional health is very important. I have to keep getting help or I will not be okay, no doubt about it. I have to take care of myself nobody else is going to, the P. can't take care of me.

I have to find a way to be happy with me. To build up my own self esteem. To love me. To be free. To be safe around other people. To not be a target ever again. To recognize the P. characteristics. Hey, sounds like a New Years resolution to me!!

Hope everybody finds happiness and freedom in the new year.

betterway

Hi Leti,

Wow. What a great post to freedom about her situation. I hope she keeps
it in mind over the next weeks and months. I might add there are some truisms
about Ps we learn over time. One is they will never return our love; they
are incapable of love. Another is if someone is in love with a P, there's
nothing you can say to them to make them see who their P really is, without
them going through the pain of the relationship on their own. And if you
want to cut your emotional ties with a P, you have to follow the "no contact"
rule.

But it was your post from 2 posts ago that I wanted to comment on. You
said "Somewhere I read that P's lack "emotional memory"". I had never heard
that but it really makes sense to me. My ex-possible-P would often say
"my past and future will never meet". Any love, concern, or goodwill shown
in the past meant nothing today. There's no putting stuff in the bank with
these people! There's no emotional memory for your kindness to them.

I hope I'm not getting too far afield here, but I'm also reminded of
another thing my ex-possible-P would say: "I take the path of least resistance".
Another P, maybe kris' ex, I'm not sure, was quoted as saying "I go with
the flow". I've been thinking about that and what it might mean for their
emotional life. It reminded me of it's opposite, expressed in Robert Frost's
poem "A Road Less Traveled", where he writes:

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference. "

And I wonder what it is about the P's emotional life that causes him
to go with the flow and take the path of least resistance, where some others
might take the "road less traveled". I think it's due to a P's lack of
emotional bonds with others. Emotional bonds surely slow us down in life
quite a bit. We might decide to take the road less traveled because we're
attracted by a butterfly there, or because of a grove of trees seen dimly
in the distance, or maybe just out of whimsy. Even though the well traveled
path is more utilitarian and would get us there faster.

One thing about emotional bonds is they have no rhyme or reason. As
Pascal said, "The heart has its reasons which the head can not know". We
fall in love with a P. Why? There's no reason. There's no calculation.
There's no logic to love. Most people have something they love (other than
themselves), whether it's people or things or even principles and ideas.
We naturally assume everyone loves something besides themselves, but this
is a dangerous assumption when dealing with a P.

I was thinking about the nature of the inner life of the P -- there's
nothing there, it's just garbage, no emotional depth, no concern for others,
no love. A few weeks ago I wrote a few paragraphs using a metaphor to try
to understand the emotional life of a P:

There's a town and everyone has a house and a yard. Someone might
put up a white picket fence and a flower garden and a tomato patch, and
they mow their front yard. They're proud of it because it's taken years
for them to make their home as it is and they take care of it. When their
neighbor is sick they pick a flower from their own garden and bring it
to him, and it's not just that it's a flower but that it's the flower they
grew and nurtured in there own flower bed and the sick neighbor appreciates
it because you're giving something of yourself. They have sliced tomatoes
with dinner and they taste so much better because they grew them.

The psychopath has a yard too though not many know about it because
he doesn't tell people about it. But if you do a little research and go
to the courthouse and look under the property records sure enough he's
listed as an owner. If you drive to his property you'll see it's full of
weeds and grass growing to your waist. There are junked cars on cinder
blocks, old tires, garbage, rats and other varmits running around. It's
got broken glass, old rusty hypodermic needles, and used condoms strewn
all around.

The P may bring flowers to a sick acquaintance but not out of his
own garden because he doesn't have one. He steals them from other people,
and he steals tomatoes too, and anything else he can. The old Mrs. Smith
has this ornate wooden trellis painted white completely covered in red
roses, which is a showcase that the whole town admires and envies, so one
night for kicks the P drives his car over there and backs into it destroying
it, because it's too big to steal, and he envies it so much, he either
has to have it or destroy it. In 1960 the British psychoanalyst Betty Joseph
wrote "If the psychopath spoils that which he hungrily wants -- the goodness
in others -- it is not worth having".

Sincerely, Boo

Hopefull i do think about the future and that is another reason i know it is not for us to be together
i see myself with my husband and children
when he calls back to say he wants to be with me i tell him i can only be a friend and he'll say ok i understand but then when i am with him in person he wants more
so it turns ugly
and today he is talking better he went out last night with the other lady and all his friends he felt that they were giving him bad vibes, we were together the night before seeing the same people so he is telling me today that he went out the building to pray to God to give him direction in his life
so anyway
if we could just be friends
everything would be ok
but i told him you are like a fire cracker
everywhere you go a fight has to start
i told him he needs to have a spirit removed
and he was talking sensibly
but catching him with a few lies
telling him and blablabla
you all know how it goes
but i am hopefull

now i read Boo's metaphor
it is such a true picture
i had a dream a few weeks ago
about being in Africa in a deserted town
with a few store open only the saleslady in each store
one is clothing store
the other a shoe store
i looked around browsing lightly
and then i realize it is getting late
i need to stop at the food store
i get in just in time before closing

i had this dream before the exact one
so i know it means something

like the one i used to have about people taking over my land
(only 2 acres) and i realize it was whenever i would hire someone new to work with my handicap children and they were not the right lady
and i started to have an alien coming into the house and that is when p came into being real violent with me

love you'all

thank you Leti for the hugs
and here is for you ((((((betterway)))))
i see a brighter futur because of all the very good explanation of what is going on
the truth will set us free

freedom

Betterway,
Thanks for the reinforcement. My post sounds better than I'm actually living. Right now there is a box full of P's junk in my car. I am also holding to "no contact". For me that means to avoid him and places where I know he'll be. This may not sound reasonable, like he's still controlling some aspect of my life (where I go and don't go at certain times). But at this point, I can't handle seeing him. Too many bad feelings and memories come up, then I start feeling guilty, angry, and all the other negative stuff, and then some obsession.
So I maintain "no contact", and maintain my health. I'll feel guilty if I throw out his junk, so I want to do right by P (and this doesn't make any sense).

At the same time, I know that to do right by me, there must not be contact.
So I am figuring out how to return P's cr@9 without seeing him. It looks like it will go through a third party, or like else find out when he is away from his work, and leave it there on that day.
Boo, the analogy was right on target!

(((((((((((((((Freedom))))))))))))))))

There's another hug, going through these changes we need all we can get!

-Leti

Wow so much for p's bad vibes
from the guys the other night
i found out tonight
that they were happy to see him
th guys even let him play on stage
so he is doing very ok
he was trying to make me feel sorry for him again
more truth is popping up in my face

the truth will set us free

he is driving his new girlfriend's car
so i know he will be busy for awhile
so he won't need me as much

it is like a deliverance

sure it hurts
to hear a guy telling how much he loves you
but really
he is using the hell out of us women

i gotta go on and forget i never knew him

i can imagine us (ladies here) holding hands together
and thanking the One who helped us
to get that far
to a better understand of what is really going on

thank you thank you for being here

freedom

well you are right Leti
the no contact deal is the best
because now with that little tease he gave me
is killing me

this is not easy at all
it is discusting
i am having pain in my head and my guts
Jesus is so peaceful
but how can i get back
to the peace that i had
do i really want that peace
the p's spirit is pulling me toward his game
i know it is no good for me
it only bring joy for a moment
why do we even have to exist
why did the creator created us
so we can ruin our life over an obsession
i think i am losing it
after i share my crazy feeling
i'll be o'right
for another hour
it is like a car with no breaks
my life with my family is so sweet
why do i go on the other side of the fence
to play with the devil in person
this is like a movie
with monsters fighting each other
i need some angels to come and help me fight
because i am just in the corner
waiting for him to call me again
and play his game of talking bulls***
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
i cannot even stand on the fence
i cannot even be in the middle
i have to choose one side
and i know better
than missbehaving
i feel that i can relax here
and lash out at my stupid situation

i have so many good thing going on for me
i have a good family
a good job
good friendly people all around me

anyway i love you'all
i can swim in your tears that i know you have shed
for your p
we know how hard it is to let go

freedom

i finally got a call today
from the man who loves me so much
and he has decided to live with her
he has a roof over his head she enjoys his company
and she let him drive her car
so i am so happy for him
Oh but he better not find me with another man
that is all he's got to say
so why this train train of making me believe that he loves me
so anyway
am i learning anything yet
he is not even interested to see me
now that i am willing to be with him
this is getting hillarious
that is why he is judging me so bad
he is just bringing temptation into my camp
and when i fall
he says you see how bad you are
to desire a young man like me
which i did not want in the first place
but he keeps bugging me to go see him
so it is all a game
one of those sordid game

tomorrow i am going back to work
back in real life
thank God
because i am getting kind of mad at myself
i don't want to do nothing crazy
the no contact is a must
and the no phone call talking too
because i am afraid i might hurt him
if i see him face to face
he starts to get on my nerve ending

freedom

When I am caught up in the excruciating pain of the loss of a relationship. I have to trust that I will get better, that I will be happy again. Sometimes when I am so down, I tell myself there is only one way to go and that is up. I know the pain of rejection, the loss of an ideal.

I heard on here that a P. is a P. is a P. No matter rather the P. is in a relationship with me or a relationship with someone else he is still a P. I was fooled by the P. and many others have been too, and many more will be in the future.

The new relationships that the P. has are all a game. When I look at how they are unfolding, they follow axactly the same pattern the P. used with me. Those currents targets are only in for pain in the future, I believe. I am a step ahead of them, and I will be so much better, by the time they start traveling the terrible road a P. guided me down.

betterway

Betterway,
"A P is a P, is a P, is a P... A-MEN to that!!!!" Yes, they do the same thing to the next one, and the one after that, and the one after that. And they manage to make each one they leave think it's all her/his fault, and at the same time, they manage to make the new victim think it's the most perfect relationship. Then the new becomes the old, when P moves on, again,and again, and again. You are so right.

Freedom, something a therapist used to ask me was, "What's the payoff for you to stay in contact?". It was a very hard question for me to figure out. For me, one payoff was my own "moral superiority". I was a "good woman" stuck with a "bad boy", or emotionally/socially supporting a man who had emotional/psychological problems (that I couldn't fix, I just kept him diverted enough so that he could stay in his own denial), or reforming a P. I was comfortable in the martyr/reformer/rescuer roles. They were the roles I saw most while growing up.
The excitement, worry, unpredictability, anger, danger, and pain in those roles provided opportunity for plenty of trauma bonding. After that, even when I wanted out, it was unbelievably difficult. I knew with my mind and spirit, that it was best to leave, but my heart and body would not cooperate. The P relationsip was the third time that some type of abuse had happened. The P relationship was the first in which I was able to really see it. And it has been by far the worst. Looking back, there was a continuum and variety of abuses, and it became worse each time. This P rarely laid a hand on me, but he was the worst by far.

During these relationships, I did not nurture my children enough nor admit to the affects of the craziness on my children. I didn't pay enough attention to my children, because I was so absorbed struggling and/or depressed about the relationship. I failed to see the effects of the abuse on them. Sometimes I was verbally abusive to my oldest. My oldest kids are now adults. There is no way to go back and make up for the neglect and abuse. I could have done it right the first time by getting out and getting sane. I am lucky that they turned out as well as they have. The youngest child is still with me and experienced less of it, and at an older age. That child has the best self esteem of all of them. I am sure this is because of a healthier early childhood.

While I was involved with my abusers, I also limited my chances of meeting good men. I was so busy in the whirlwind, responding to P, fighting for survival in that vortex, when all I had to do was mentally, emotionally detach, step out, and stand on my own two feet. It would have made all the difference for my kids and for myself. Plus, I just might have learned to give one of the good guys a chance.

It was not easy to detach, and I made alot of mistakes and still do.
This time of detachment has not been as exciting, but it is alot more fulfilling. There are not the high highs of making up and honeymooning after everything is blown apart. But there is a nice, quiet stability. And a certain security of knowing and accepting who I am and my place in this world and in the universe, in relationship with God, with family, and with community (which includes this forum). It is not as exciting, but it makes me a whole lot healthier and happier.
Blessings to you all,
Leti

Dear Leti and Betterway
thank you so much for your words of truth

the p came at my job with the lady's car
it is one hour drive
he was begging me to leave my job to visit with him
i told him i could not do that
he talked to me for about 2 hours
trying to convince me how much he loves me
and how evil i am
i kept telling him you cannot be here during i am working
finally my boss showed up and told him to leave
and i haven't heard a word from him
i know he is doing the same trick on this lady like he did with all the other one
i know i have to stop desire him
it is too insane
i don't want to loose my family
i have quite a few friends who are so much nicer people
so i have a lot to keep busy
without causing my family an extra burden
am i trying to convince me more of my foolishness zgotta stop

again thank you for being here
freedom

Freedom,

I have a theory... Why did he drive one hour and talk to you for two hours trying to convince you, while he is so in love with the new target, and so much missing you???

My guess is: P did this for the thrill of having two women loving and wanting him at the same time. One woman, either you or the new one, is not enough for him. He is not addicted to her, and he is not addicted to you. He is addicted to the dangerous, illicit thrill of having it ALL, two or women at the same time, even if not in the same bed. He feeds off the love energy they give him. He feeds off the power trip of knowing that he is totally manipulating both situations, and getting something for the nothing that he offers.
And one woman is just not enough to fill P's emptiness. Two women isn't even enough. They are empty because they are P's, and the only thing that can change it or fill them is God himself.

My guess is that this (wanting the thrill of having both) is the motive for his desperate behavior. It is an excitement "fix" for him to have two plates spinning up in the air at the same time.

It is good for us when we refuse to spin for the P's anymore.
I'm so glad that your boss intervened. Hopefully you now have a P-free zone, at your workplace.

Take Care,
Leti

Leti and Freedom,

You are absolutely correct. One relationship (victim)
is not enough for any P.
When we first started seeing each other my P told me that
he had gone out on a date while I was out of town...and that
it was a disaster. That's when he fed me the line about
getting to know each other better, being exclusive and not dating anybody else. Subsequently I found out that he had continued to date this other person for some time thereafter. In addition, I only recenlty learned(through his mother) that there was another victim that my P was keeping hanging on the edge, in another city, sleeping with him when it was convenient....from time to time. And, of course, there is the most recent object of his predatory mind whom
I caught him with. I'm sure there were others. I know it...
my intuition was telling me so at the time.
I'm still in touch with his mother, and we have grown quite close. She understands the big picture now and, together, we are mapping out the course of action that he is taking with
his latest victim. It's painful for me because, lacking in
emotional memory (one of the best terms to describe this whole experience), it is as if I never even existed to my P.
Anyhow, right now my P is in the adulation phase with his new victim. "I've never met anyone like him. He makes me feel so wonderful. I've never met anyone that makes me feel the way that I do. I think this is going to last for a long, long time."
I wonder who the next victim is going to be after this one?! I'm sure he's setting his scope if he doesn't already know for sure.
Again, these people play by different rules. No rules, although they will "tell" you otherwise.

Rick

Hi Rick, does his mom recognize that he is a Psychopath? I hope it doesn't affect you too much, this is sort of having contact and I am concerned for your healing.

well, dear Friends
it won't be hard to let him go now
because he is acting really stupid with me
calling my job again
my boss told him not to call anymore

i answered a few of his calls
yesterday and today afternoon
he wants me to talk louder
he puts me on the speaker phone and no thank you
i already went through that stage before
with another woman
he was making me talk on the speaker phone
so they could both laugh at me

the lady told me after she realized
that he was with her for her money too

yes Rick
p can be so nice

he makes me feel so good
he is a lot of fun to be with
when he is not verbally and physically violent

my husband and my children liked him a lot
until he got violent with me
we have forgiven him many time
when he would see me in public he did
a few violent act toward the people
that wanted to talk to me

yes Leti
i agree with your theory
we are like little mice in a cage to him

freedom

Dear Rick,

I can imagine it is good for you to share with someone that knows the P as well. At one point, I was hoping so much to talk to someone that knew him. But now that time has past I feel fortunate to not have gotten deeper in that moving-sand-like-situation for I believe the integrity of whomever is around the P is dubious. I would therefore slowly cut ties with his surroundings, walk away from his territory. I agree with Diane that your healing may be postponed by intermingling your emotions with his mother's. I too, was trying to find out more and more, but now that I am 100% sure of my diagnostic I don't feel the urge to talk with someone that knows him.
If your P is really a P further trouble may occur if he is informed about your little talks with the mother.
Watch out! Be alert!

Leti,

It seems that you know the same kind of P that I knew, addicted to danger and trouble. Manipulated troubled women that he knew would fall for them.He appeared panicked that he always sounded a little worried they all these women were after him. Later I found out that he was the one actually was inviting them with all his charm, inviting them to go on and on, looking for him. But he would, of course, always say that they were sick and threatening.

Dianne. Thanks for your concern. I appreciate it and take it seriously. Yes, his mother now fully understands that her son is a P. I know, intuitively, that my contact with her will be coming to an end soon. We are very much alike...spiritual, sould searching, looking to heal our past relationships. She is thankful grateful that I have come into her life ... making her realize what she is dealing with. I think she will be moving out of town soon...back to another area of the country that she considers safe. But yes, I was aware that this could constitute "contact" and I am being careful.She is not computer savvy... and this forum has been a great help for me. I have been a similar ear for her. Thanks, again, for your concern. Rick

Hopefull... yes, you are correct. I will be moving further and further away from the situation as I cut the ties with his mother. As I wrote Dianne...I think she will be moving out of town in the near future. The less contact that I have with
the "entire situation"...the better I feel about myself.
I had an interesting conversation with a friend that just completed his degree in social work. Part of his internship was diagnosing different personality disorders, etc... in patients... and he had two psychopaths. One man, one woman.
Of course, he didn't know what the issues were in advance.
His stories were amazing...things we've all dealt with. They made him feel that he was "the best therapist" they ever had. Couldn't compliment him enough. Etc.... He was blown away when he finally figured it out. He's been a good person to talk with.
Rick

Hopefull...PS...thanks for your concern. My P is "done with me" according to his mother. And although that hurts... it's
best. But I will take your concern to heart...you never know what they are capable of. I will be alert! Thank you.
Rick

I know I'm responding to an old post (I'm new here). But I'm interested in this trance state you mention. What is it precisely do all P's do it. I think I'm in that kind of situation. I also notice some kind of bodily reaction, like stomach butterflies. Also I am obsessing. This is really bothering me. I don't mind being free at last either, but I don't feel free so long as I obsess. I find all of this hard to believe at times, that I am in this situation and that he (the P) is that evil.

Algaringo

Hi Algaringo,

>>I also notice some kind of bodily reaction, like stomach butterflies<<

I also had this reaction to P#2. Always. . .and still do whenever I am around him. I have come to believe it was my gut and my bodys way of telling me I was in the presense on an evil and dangerous person. (>>and that he (the P) is that evil.<<).

>> Also I am obsessing. This is really bothering me<<

If you have read through the many posts here, you have seen that all of us who have been involved with a P have gone though the obsessing stage. It goes with the territory.

I was so blessed to have so much encouragement and validation when I began posting here. When I "accidently" found the forum I was a hysterical wreck. I have continued to learn as much as I can and as fast as I can. I can honestly say I obsess only occasionly now. I have learned to see this whole P#2 encounter for what it is and was. An illusion. . .nothing was ever real. Everything I thought was only that. . .what I thought. It was created in my mind. Of course P helped me THINK that. . .but it had absolutely no substance.

I hope you will continue to post and read. There are some great book recommended here. One that really helped me was "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. I just finished "Controlling People" by her as well. Both helped the "light come on" for me.

I hope you will contine your journey out of the P world. It is hell there for sure. I am making progress Algaringo, one day at a time. You can too!

Stay with it!

(((Hugs)))
finished

Hello finished and algarino,
Butterflies - I experienced those today. This is day 60 of absolutely no contact. Then my phone rang - the numbers ALMOST matched his on caller id - but it wasn't his number after all. Gosh my heart beat fast for a few minutes after that. Thats not all that happened. A couple hours later I am driving and look to see that the road is clear and there he is. A block away that is. Luckily I didn't have my glasses on so I couldn't see him, but it was his car. Butterflies again. I believe what you said finished about the butterflies being our bodies way of saying danger is near by. I cycled through a bunch of emotions within a short time. I know that I want "no contact" of any kind. It is the only thing that is good for me. I have been doing better about not obsessing, algarino, it takes time and learning all we can to get out of it. It is hard painful work to break free of the P. As time goes by though, I see things so much more clearly.

I also role played in my head what he may be thinking if he saw me. I imagined him on his phone talking to one of his new targets and saying something about me and smiling with his little evil grin. And she will be so under his spell that she will think she is special, that he won't do these things to her. He continues to charm her, make work fun, and make himself what she needs him to be. Then I turned the role playing around and thought maybe he is thinking "boy I really screwed up, there goes my ex best friend". I can do it like that!! Then I thought maybe he is so caught up in controlling and manipulating another person that he didn't even see me. What a relief - I'm not the current main target anymore. I am free (for now)!!

This is the first time I felt the butterflies in 2 months. It was not a good feeling. He is evil and I know it. He is history. Not because I wanted him to be but because he made it so. He gave me no choice but to devalue him in my mind the way he devalued me for so so long.

I'm kinda rambling tonight. Just a wierd day. Any contact no matter how minor is not good.

I am going to go on as if I never saw his car. It was just another day of being P. free. I will not give him any kind of attention rather he knows it or not.

Thanks for listening tonight.

Keep coming back algarino. You too, finished. I miss you not posting. I have been reading alot, but not posting much.

By for now,
betterway

Welcome Algaringo & Survivor!

You are in safe hands here. Yes, the butterflies (grenades, land mines, small nuclear explosions) happen from time to time. I am going on 7 months of "awareness" and 5 months of
no contact. Still it is like a roller coaster of highs and lows.... clarity and obsession. Fortunately, the obsessions don't last as long these days nor are they as intense.
And Survivor, the best thing you can continue to do for your children is to provide them with a loving, nurturing, accepting and healthy environement. The more that you try to explain the further you will be drawn into your P's web.
I am currently reading Dr. Hares book for the second time. I picked it up when I had just realized that I was dealing with a P. It's interesting how time gives us new perspective on the issues.
Rick

Hi (((Betterway))),

Today must have been the P day. Last night when I posted I felt so strong and confident. Today. . .P#2 called. Tonight I have a splitting headache and my stomach is churning.

My contact with him has been ONLY occassionaly, from a distance, with lots of people around in a work related enviorment. Today the conversation got "up close and personaL". It was only a phone conversation but all my emotions got stirred up again. I MUST get away from him entirely. Even this limited contact gives him access into my life. It has been working for me up to this point but I can see it cannot work anymore. I do have another employment opportunity and it looks like it will come together soon. I think today was a test and a sign to let me know even a phone call has the ability to stir me up again. This isn't something to take lightly. I also can't take my recovery for granted. What happened today shows me that I have to always be on guard. I was feeling quite stong and yet with that phone call I started that cycling through ALL KINDS of emotions. I'm glad I can come here and post. Just putting it out here helps me to "see" it all for what it is. And. . .come in contact with my own vulnerability. It was amazing how quickly he was able to manuver the conversation and how easily I fell into the trap. I feel like I just had a very close call. The butterflies have now turned to lead. A yucky feeling in the pit of my stomach. Yes. . .NO CONTACT. . .it has to be the only way.

GOOD FOR YOU BETTERWAY. . .60 days. . .NO CONTACT.

>> He is evil and I know it. He is history. Not because I wanted him to be but because he made it so. He gave me no choice but to devalue him in my mind the way he devalued me for so so long<<

I see that Betterway. For me it is more like understanding who and what he is and responding accordingly. For about ten minutes today. . .I totally forgot all that. I am so GRATEFUL to have this forum to post my insanity.

I've missed you too Betterway! I have been traveling quite a bit and haven't been able to post. You'll have to bring me up to speed on what's been going on in your life these past 60 days!!! For me, I'm actually beginning to GET a life :-)!

I was in a meeting this morning. We studied Step 2. Came to believe a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Little did I know I would need that today!

(((love)))
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>>Yes, the butterflies (grenades, land mines, small nuclear explosions) happen from time to time<<

OH Rick. . .that is great! Exactly how I felt today after that phone call. . .

Thanks. . .that made me laugh (because it was so true)!

((hugs)))
finished

finished,

Isn't it just amazing how just a little contact can stir us up. I have felt that so many times. I know that he had such an impact on me that I have to be very careful. I could very easily like you said get pulled back in even if for just 10 minutes. P's are so skilled at what they do. Yes, it is so wonderful that we can come here and share and get our magical thinking back under control.

Take care and have a great P. free day.

betterway

Finished:

Funny U talk about yesterday being "P" Day.....i recieved an email from mine......first time in a good number of months........

I am also convinced I have seen him do 'drive-bys' my house in the last month......

The fear is now resumed again.

How right you are Betterway!

>>P's are so skilled at what they do.<<

After posting, it helped me get a real dose of reality. Then. . .today I got more. Just what I needed. A fellow employee shared an experience he had had with P. Same stuff.

Here is an interesting article by Dr. Sam Vaknin. It is on "How to Manipulate a Narcissist". I think you will enjoy it.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9128/102150

I think I found myself doing that yesterday (not in the good way either).

Just for today. . .P free :-)
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Hi Dusty,

>>I am also convinced I have seen him do 'drive-bys' my house in the last month<<

>>The fear is now resumed again.<<

Do you have a protective order? Please follow your instincts and have a safty plan Dusty. If you "thought" it was him. . .it probably was. Take precautions when you go out and take very good care of yourself. Keep your cell phone with you at all times. I know. . .it gets scary. I was too, for a long time.

Keep us posted. I'll be praying for your safty. . .

Hugs,
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Finished:

thanku for your note........

i know it was him.

no contact for months..then this?........i have had phonecalls..again..no one there but someone listening as i say "Hello...Hello".......he way back admitted to doing this.........

my gut tells me he is not done..as he told me soooooo many times...that he would 'never let go'...as he found his 'soulmate'...and would wait no matter how long it took to have me.......no matter what.

then i think....I am dramatizing all this..and i am spinning..wildly...didnt sleep last night..again.

Hi Dusty,
By experience when you think they are around they are around... Just beware...

Finished and betterway,
Glad to hear that you doing well. I haven't check for a long time, but it doesn't mean the story is all behind. it confronted to it everyday.

Hopeful!!!!!!

So GOOD to see you here!!

>>I haven't check for a long time, but it doesn't mean the story is all behind. it confronted to it everyday<<

Are you doing okay? Is P still bothering you? Of course I realize that even when they are out of your life the damage they have inflicted has it's residual effects.

Hope all is well sister friend :-)
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>>>then i think....I am dramatizing all this..and i am spinning..wildly...didnt sleep last night..again.<<

Dusty. . .I don't think you are dramatizing a bit. I think you have every reason to take precautions and be aware.

>>my gut tells me he is not done.<<

Dusty. . . one of the greatest things I was told right after my "horror story' with P#2 was from my therapist. When I asked if she thought I was blowing the incident out of proportion (God Bless he forever) she told me I had GREAT instincts. Every since that day, I have believed it. I encourage you to trust your gut (instincts). It is a gift from God to help protect us.

I continue to pray for your saftey.

Blessings to you,
finished :-)