Dearest friends,

i finally did it! i did not do it!
i did not see him, it was not easy

the day, december 9, he came out of prison
i started to work overtime at my job,
today is my first day off.

He's been calling me a lot,
at first i would talk to him
to see where his head is at
it is worst than ever
the same old song even more mad
because i quit sending him money
quit visiting him when he was in prison
he even called my husband
to ask him permission to give a gift
to our youngest son
my husband was nice to him
my husband tells him that it was up to me

your group is a life saver
it puts strenght in my mind
that i am not the only one going through this
i want to be a winner
not a loser

i am glad that there is still people
that care in the world
because being with a p
and getting wripped off by business people
it makes you feel that you are all alone

it seems that the world is being taking over
by psychopath
there is a lot of people letting these men
taking over our mind
we do not want to kill them
but what do you do with so many psychopath
like Hilter and Pol Pot and 9/11 men that caused it
and many more men out there
why do we let man like these
have an army of people
who are called to kill
come into private home
kill just because you do not believe like they do

it is like that with my p
which he is not anymore
(now doubt wants to creep in but
i am rejecting it
rebuking it in the name of Jesus)
my ex-p tells me lies about anything
he wants me to believe it
and he wants money too
he does everything in his power to get it
sometime it is just with a look
i know that is what he wants
if not he will get violent with me
so i do not want to rock the boat
i keep on giving
which i love to do but i am totally broke
i need to use money wisely


it is a battle to stop thinking about him
this morning when i first woke up
the first thought was him
i have to be out there to win
i have a responsability toward my family
to do the right thing
today i stop answering his call
i am praying a lot
even praying in tongue in my head
to shut the desire to see him

i think about you all
your good words of advice
your feeling the same as i do
your energy of caring
of wanting me to do the right thing
are guiding me in the right path

the love of a loving God is present
(i have doubt kreeping in but i won't let it
battle, battle)
i am giving Him all the glory
i thank Him for guiding me here

thank you so much for sharing your personal life


freedom
i will submit my new name

he came by my job today telling me he loves me even though he has a girlfriend i told him i just want to be with one man and i do not want to share
it is harder to forget my feeling after seeing him
i just feel like shooting my brain so i will stop thinking about seeing him today
he said he would wait for me
after work he is not there which i am glad but it hurts
i just feel that he came to visit just to hurt me more

freedom

Freedom,

I am so glad for you, you set your limits and told him exactly what is and is not acceptable for you. Good for you.

It is also hard for me to stop thinking about P after an encounter, or after a memory comes back. I clean house, and find some of his things. If they are just junk, I throw them out, but if they are pictures of his family, or other irreplacable things with sentimental value, I feel that I must return them. So I am making a box for a friend to bring him after I finish getting his stuff together.

And I obsess also, it's normal to do that, but I keep putting one foot in front of another, taking care of my own business, and it eventually lessens. It gets easier and goes away faster with time.

I am continuing to review and analyze some things in my mind about the "relationship" and breakup. The breakup took over a year. I read some of my letters to him from "the beginning of the end". In spite of the pain, at that stage, I was very clear and very strong about what I couldn't accept from him (fraud, deceitfulness, secretiveness), and why I wanted it to end. Then I reviewed things he wrote to me. I NOW realize that he was playing me like a hooked fish, stringing me along, devaluing, discarding, and slapping me away when he had someone else to entertain himself with, then reeling me back in, when his other relationship fizzled. This went on for over a year. Until HE DECIDED it was time to end. And during that final year, I had more than a bellyful of agony many, many times. He played me like a hooked fish, kept me isolated and away from healthy influences and fed me the poision of his lies until I was mentally unwound and half dead emotionally, tossed me back overboard when I was too tired to swim and dragged me along with more lies, till I was half beat, and then pulled me back in by the same hooks his maniuplations had planted in my gut years before, early in the relationship. I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.

I heard from people online and in books that P's are this way. For them it is all about control. They don't really want us, but they want to be the one to decide when and how to end it. And they want to exact revenge for whatever insults or injuries they think we subjected them to. And due to my "trance state", I believed his version about what was occurring between us, and his reasons (all my fault, of course) for closing himself off, for withdrawing, for disappearing, and finally for leaving. And when he came back, to my grateful, guilt-ridden heart, I was so grateful and full of self-doubt that I never questioned the lies that were transparent to observers. But I didn't dare question, because I was so afraid to lose the liar. I wanted to cling to and believe that pretty, pretty, glittering fantasy painted by his lies, in colors larger than life. Plastic. I placed my faith in P, instead of in God. I trusted P, over and over, instead of the insights, good intuition, and facts that God and His universe had provided me with.

I am sharing my experience (and confessing my own stupidity) with you because I experienced exactly what you described:
"I just feel that he came to visit just to hurt me more"

For what it's worth, I want to validate your feeling and tell you, that is exactly my P did when he came back. Over and over, and over, more deeply painful, soul wrenching, and disorienting for me, each time. I was in such a spin I didn't know which way was up. This began at a slower frequencyand a lower intensity early in my association* with P, but was worse and cycled more frequently in the end.

I am sure that you are right, and please don't shoot your brain! As someone else here has said, it's "just" the trauma bonding. It helps me to realize this, and that the obsessive thoughts are actually a normal response for someone who has gone through the abuse of a P relationship. And that it really DOES get better with time.

You know the mantra, "detachment, aloofness, dignity, no contact, no engagement, no response". It helps me to focus on those words, and to know that I'm respecting my own feelings, boundaries, and self worth, and doing what is best for me.
For me, now, (even though I sometimes still obsess), I can finally look back at what happened and see it without feeling the hurt all over again. I also see it differently. When I was in it, people would tell me that he was manipulating, and I couldn't see it, now I do. And it has taken many months of detachment for me to heal strong enough to handle looking back, without experiencing the pain anew, and to see it for what it was.

May God strengthen you, protect you, and shelter you under his wing,

Love,
Leti

PS I really like it that you changed and claimed your real name, Freedom!

* I now prefer to call it an association instead of a relationship. For me it is a better description.

>>I NOW realize that he was playing me like a hooked fish, stringing me along, devaluing, discarding, and slapping me away when he had someone else to entertain himself with, then reeling me back in, when his other relationship fizzled. This went on for over a year.<<

Leti,
You said many insightful things in your post. I many times these last few months have felt as if I am being stringed along for the P's enjoyment.

>>He played me like a hooked fish, kept me isolated and away from healthy influences and fed me the poision of his lies until I was mentally unwound and half dead emotionally, tossed me back overboard when I was too tired to swim and dragged me along with more lies, till I was half beat, and then pulled me back in by the same hooks his maniuplations had planted in my gut years before, early in the relationship. I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.<<

Wow, this is what is happening too me, exactly. There are people in my office that would treat me respect. But the P. will have nothing of it. He makes life at the office so impossible for me. The games he plays that others choose to play along with or ignore just destroy my spirit. Some of people are probably oblivious to most of it. His games are so sneaky and underhanded and he is using most of the people their to play them.

>>They don't really want us, but they want to be the one to decide when and how to end it. And they want to exact revenge for whatever insults or injuries they think we subjected them to. And due to my "trance state", I believed his version about what was occurring between us, and his reasons (all my fault, of course) for closing himself off, for withdrawing, for disappearing, and finally for leaving.<<

I know the end is near. That is what I fear. In my own sick way, I fear my ability to survive the end. My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind. I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting. Which is very confusing to me, because I have heard that P's don't have empathy. However, maybe his hurting is all part of how he continues to manipulate me. And also his way of dealing with someone actually sticking up for their rights, after being under his control for so so long. I believe he knows how to play the game to the very end, hurting me as much as he possibly can, including the illusion that he is the one being abused and hurting.

>>I wouldn't have believed this could happen over and over until I lived it, over and over.<<

Same here, leti.

>>I can finally look back at what happened and see it without feeling the hurt all over again. I also see it differently. When I was in it, people would tell me that he was manipulating, and I couldn't see it, now I do.<<

Your words are encouraging. This is where I hope to be someday. I still tend to suffer he pain over and over again with the memories. I'm curious, Leti, how long have you been completely away from the P.?

Freedom, my prayers are with you. I hope you will see as we all share our experiences, that you are not alone. The P. behavior does have a pattern and the pain can get better. I experience times of being better and then I fall backwards. When I fall backwards the pain can be as strong as ever, thats part of my PTSD. But I do have hope. Like Leti says keep putting one foot in front of the other.

betterway

My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind. I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting.

Betterway,

With Ps it is always our fault. I ended the relationship with the P but of course when he came back months after, I said what I thought and this time he ended it, I am sure it was his revenge, he was waiting for me to say what I thought in the deepest sense to have material to justify a zest my craziness. I felt terrible, but I think that if I were going through that again, I would give one inch of my thoughts and feelings: it is kind of disgusting they love that , so they manipulate more.

Earlier today I wrote:
>>My P. does act as if it is all my fault, that I am crazy, and that is why we are no longer business partners/friends. He plants seeds of doubt in my mind.<<

I have been thinking about this today amongst my tears. I know that I am so innocent. The only thing I am guilty of is being a loyal true friend. I could be trusted with anything. I had him on a pesdatal. I respected him. I thought he would never hurt me, but right in front of my face I saw him hurting others, and I ignored it. He changed in an instance and didn't seem to care. I was put on the back burner while he played his new little games. At the same time he was enjoying the hurt and pain he was inflicting on me. I fought back the best way I knew, which nothing will beat a P. Fighting back only made him increase the level of pain. I am not proud of the way I treated him and I apologized many times to him for my behavior(that was my trying to get him to understand and to let me back into his good world). I was human. I cared about others. I felt bad if I hurt others. I hurt for I feel betrayed, cheated, lied to, and humiliated, etc. The P. believes that I am trying to control him because I want him to change. He says he will never change. There is nothing I can do. The P will not change. I am the only one that can change. I have to keep moving despite the pain. Someone described it as a excrutiating loss. I agree. This pain affects all area of my life. Others suffer as a result of my pain. I feel bad about that. All I can do is try to heal the best I can.

<
hopeful, I have been playing over and over in my mind what I will say to the P. next time he "acts" concerned about us no longer being friends. It is an important reminder to me that I will just be playing into his games by expressing my feelings. It is very discusting that they enjoy knowing how much we hurt. It is an ego trip for my P. Thanks for sharing hopefull.

betterway

"They don't really want us,"
how true this is
one second he acts like he wants me even call my husband to ask him to be with me telling him how much he loves me
and then the next second he wants to kill me,
i ruined his life
so i tell him that is why i should not be with you because i am ruining your life and then he says no i did it to myself
he already found another woman which i am glad so he won't need me so much moneywise but he still need some extra
so when he says he wants to see me i tell him you know you will be asking me for money and he keeps saying he is not he denies that he is asking for it
and when i would give in and go see him before he went to prison he would preach to me after i would give him money that i was buying his friendship and when i would refuse to give him money he would get violent and say that i have another man in my life
and would you believe i am really tempted to see him again
he calls me again at my job today
when i told him so many time not to call me at work
he knows what time i get off
i told him today i am taking a lunch break in half an hour i will call him then
he says that he has to go to a AA meeting after the call
so i call and he is not there
then after my lunch break he calls again at my job to talk
i tell him again do not call at my job
i get off about 8 or 9 and we can talk then
he says ok and when i call he is not there
he does that a lot
and that AA meeting was change to checking about a paint job for his motorcycle
he changes his stories a lot
so i get mad at myself
i know he is just playing with my mind
and i am about to get sucked in again
and i really don't want to do it
because the more i saw him before the more he is getting violent with me
and yesterday at work he was talking about how much he hates his mom and her boyfriend which they are really nice to him i met them many time
he still has clothing there from when he lives there and he was saying that he wants to have the boyfriend arrested for stealing his clothes and i know it is not true so he is talking crazy he seems worse
he has been visiting a friend and i keep contact with him because he is from another country like me and he was telling that p comes visit him and he always wants 20 dollars before he lives the house and he gives in too
so i know he has not change a bit
p is telling me that he has change but not to me his conversation seems scary to me one second he is a nice guy and the next he is evil
i keep praying and mantra and speaking in tongue
but i can tell my body wants to see him one more time
and how many time i told God if you get me out of the situation when we were alone i would never come back
he would be so crazy with me
a few years back we were in my car he was trying to prove to me that he loves me and i was telling him that i did not believe him because a few hours before he had called his ex-girlfriend telling her he loves her and wants to marry her
so he calls my husband on the phone and then he pulls my mirror off my windshiel with his bare hand it cracked the windshield and he says now do you believe me that i love you
and i said no i don't and then we got into a kick fight i hurted his lips he was going to sue me
so anyway we ended up going into the room we had rented and he still wanted to have sex with me i wanted to leave but i had to do what he says he finally fell asleep and when he sleeps he sleeps hard that is when i get away and promise to myself that i will never come back to him and i keep my words for a few weeks or months and then i come back
and this years he did it again in my car he was mad at me again for no reason imagining that i see other man and he hit my dashboard so hard it cracked and again i was telling myself this is it no more p
and i was looking at the shape of the crack and it is a circle with a cross on top of the circle
so i told him what his fist did and told him that it will remind me of how Jesus die on the cross for us and it reminds me not to let him in my car again
well you know it did not last we were togethere again a few weeks later i always tell him before we see each other now you're sure you are not going to hit me and he says no honey i don't want to go to jail i won't hurt you
so i go again and we have another fight

yesterday he wants me to look into his eyes i tell him all i see is money sign
i tell him that i do not want to be alone with him because the last 2 times we saw each other he was violent toward me and he denies it

thank you for talking to me but you know the feeling of the pulling one more time
i was so strong and now i feel very weak
i need to go to bed
i will be stronger tomorrow after a good night rest
i am working long hours which is good because i do not have time to sin

love you all
yes i need to register my new name
freedom

Betterway wrote: I sometimes catch a glimpse of him hurting. Which is very confusing to me, because I have heard that P's don't have empathy.

BW, I believe that they are capable of hurting (just not capable of empathy). I know that my P was hurt by his family's eventual rejection of him. Few of his siblings can stand to be around him and only one or two of them will speak to him at all. I am sure that my P is alone and is lonely, and just doesn't have a clue as to why. And this does hurt him. Sometimes, when he slows down enough and shuts up long enough to observe his own circumstances, personal, social, and professional, he is sad and bewildered. He has no idea why he is in such a state. That is one symptom of his lack of empathy. Somewhere I read that P's lack "emotional memory", and that this is what is required for empathy. When he is sad, hurting, depressed, it is just for that moment. When he recovers and starts to con again, he doesn't associate his conning with the loneliness and sadness he felt before and will feel again later, after his lies are found out. The problem is that he doesn't remember how he felt when he was down, so he lacks true empathy for himself, (as well as for others). Anyway, that is one theory of the P's hurt. They can be self-pitying, but I think that part is really an act. They don't remember how they felt when they hurt, so that is why they can't empathize with the hurt of other people, and the lack of empathy with their own prior sadness, makes them unable to learn from their mistakes.

"However, maybe his hurting is all part of how he continues to manipulate me. And also his way of dealing with someone actually sticking up for their rights, after being under his control for so so long. I believe he knows how to play the game to the very end, hurting me as much as he possibly can, including the illusion that he is the one being abused and hurting."

Very, very true. Kris wrote something about this exact illusion a while back also. It is definitely part of the P experience!

Something else about your post that got me was the difficulty of working in a situation where he is manipulating everyone around you. I don't have commone work contacts with him, only social contacts. But one thing that did help me was to refuse to discuss him with others. Often, people will come up to me and make a remark about him. I usually acknowledge their observation and then change the subject. Example: "P is such so funny, every time I walk into his office I leave laughing", I reply, "Yes, he really is a funny guy.", and then move on to something else. Even if they say something negative about him to me, I don't join in, unless the person is a very close friend of mine. I just acknowledge/validate their feeling, "Oh, really, wow...(then I shrug my shoulders and change the subject)". Something that helped me in this situation and also in a previous unhealthy work environment, was to pray some of the psalms, I can't remember the number of the one that helped most, but the one I used to read most was about being surrounded by his enemies, by deceitful men who lay out traps, and calling upon God for deliverance. It helped me to focus above, to detach from the deceitrul/cruel ones and their traps and to attach to an almighty and loving God. I used to keep a bible in my purse and sometimes pull it out of my purse and read it in the bathroom during the day. I'd read that psalm before going in, and as many times as necessary during the day. I wish I could remember the number of it. It was a wonderful help.

"I know the end is near. That is what I fear. In my own sick way, I fear my ability to survive the end."

Oh, how I felt that too... but believe me, "The End" of the P association was the beginning of my freedom and it planted the seeds of renewed health for me. I wish every goodness for you and want to assure you that life with the P is just a counterfeit of what life is meant to be. I have a long way to go, but there is so many good fellings that I am learning to feel again. It really does get better after they're gone for good. I had even forgot how to trust and enjoy my female friends. I remember telling one good woman friend, "Thank you for caring, but right now even kindness hurts." She stood by me, through all the craziness, obsession, and everything else. And she kept her mouth shut about my problems.

The final separation from my P began about 10 months ago. Since then there has been minimal contact. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to continue seeing a P through work. I stand in awe of you who are working through it all in spite of that ongoing contact.

Truth will triumph, and holding it in your heart and in your mind, YOU will overcome.

Blessings,
Leti

PS I MISS KRIS!!!! Kris, where are you??? You have been such an inspiration to me. I hope all is going well for you.

>>I can't imagine how difficult it must be to continue seeing a P through work. I stand in awe of you who are working through it all in spite of that ongoing contact. >>

Hi Leti,
I am working from home now (have been for 3 months). I have minimal contact with the P. However the games still come through even with a little contact, or no contact. I feel the games being played even when we don't speak. His having no contact with me is a game. It hurts me to let go, it hurts to stay. I am so very angry that he made the office so intolorable that I had to leave. I loved my job. I am in isolation now, except for the clients I see on occassion. Isolation is very hard for me. I need to be around people, I like people (It suprises me that I just wrote that, after this last year, I have done alot of generalizing and was mad at all people for awhile). I like what you said about even kindness hurt for awhile. I know what you mean.

For a couple weeks I had lost the feeling of needing to talk to him. I didn't want to call him. I didn't care if he called me. But then I slip. The feelings come back.

The stuff you wrote about emotional memory and lack of empathy all makes since to me. I can know in my head what the truth is, but to feel it and live it is another story.

I have a very busy two days ahead of me. Which should be helpful for me. All your posts are so very helpful and inspirational to me. I found this forum just in time.

More later!

betteway

Freedom,

Your story sounds extremely complicated. I wish I could help you, figure it out. What has helped me was to focus on something else until it works, despite that feeling that I needed to call the P again or despite that obessive thought seeking explanation. I am sure that you are scared because he is violent. Write down everything that happens, if the day comes that you need tp put a restraining order. But think of yourself more and more. Take a serious brake.