How do you know if someone is a paychopath? My 17yr. old son he is kind and loving to children and animals, but other things he does He will lie,when he wants something he wants it NOW and will lie, cheat, and steal to get it.He is like a conartist.He does drugs stays in trouble and will turn things around everything is always someone else fault.On the out side most people are shocked to find out he has been in trouble.How do you deal whith a child like this?

Starr,

Welcome to the forum. As painful as it may be, it is wonderful that your son has a mother that is willing to look at the complete picture and to ask questions. That is great and he is a lucky, loved young man.

How do you determine if someone is a Psychopath/N? Well, first do as much research as you possible can on the subject. We are all here for you.

Rick

Hi starr, welcome to the forum. I agree with Rick as far as an evaluation and reading Dr. Hare's book. The main criteria for being a Psychopath is the lack of conscience. Do you see your son having a conscience over things that happen?

Starr wrote: "How do you know if someone is a paychopath? My 17yr. old son he is kind and loving to children and animals, but other things he does He will lie,when he wants something he wants it NOW and will lie, cheat, and steal to get it.He is like a conartist.He does drugs stays in trouble and will turn things around everything is always someone else fault.On the out side most people are shocked to find out he has been in trouble.How do you deal whith a child like this?"

Depending on who you talk to, your son may or may not be old enough to diagnose. Some say 15 years old is the minimum age at which a reliable diagnosis can be made, some say 18 years old. I'd hesitate to diagnose someone on my own, I think for many reasons it calls for a professional who is not involved in the situation. One of the tools of a psychopath is presenting a convincing facade to the people they are trying to manipulate.

As to how to deal with a child like that, it may or may not be comforting to know that basically no one knows how to raise such children. Since your son is now 17 years old, I don't think there's a lot you can do now to affect his character and development. It may be more important to figure out a set of family rules to prevent him from taking advantage of the family.

If it's any comfort, according to a friend of mine who is a clinical psychologist who has national recognition, many psychopaths "burn out" in their middle twenties. It isn't that they develop a conscience, it's just that they get so tired of being in constant trouble that they start to change their behaviour to avoid it. They don't have any internalized understanding of ethics or fair play but they're not stupid. For example, if a given psychopath doesn't enjoy going to jail, s/he stops doing things that lead straight to jail.

So one thing that helps is refusing to enable or protect the psychopath. Never do anything to prevent the psychopath from experiencing the full consequences of their actions. It won't help the psychopath develop the "inner compass" or a true sense of empathy but it may just help train them to avoid doing things that get them in trouble.

Eithne

Thank you again for you straight forward post. My two youngest sons have also exhibited P behavior. Husband and father is P#1 in my life. They all show similiar characteristics. P#1 was an alcholic and I thought that was what the behavior was all about. The two younger sons also drink and drug and have been in trouble with the law. (Possession, DUI'S). But the lying, stealing, cheating, manipulating their way in and out of situations, I am beginning to wonder if they are P's rather that substance abusers. The behavior is sooooo similiar and the characteristics.

>>As to how to deal with a child like that, it may or may not be comforting to know that basically no one knows how to raise such children. Since your son is now 17 years old, I don't think there's a lot you can do now to affect his character and development. It may be more important to figure out a set of family rules to prevent him from taking advantage of the family.

If it's any comfort, according to a friend of mine who is a clinical psychologist who has national recognition, many psychopaths "burn out" in their middle twenties. It isn't that they develop a conscience, it's just that they get so tired of being in constant trouble that they start to change their behaviour to avoid it. They don't have any internalized understanding of ethics or fair play but they're not stupid. For example, if a given psychopath doesn't enjoy going to jail, s/he stops doing things that lead straight to jail.

So one thing that helps is refusing to enable or protect the psychopath. Never do anything to prevent the psychopath from experiencing the full consequences of their actions. It won't help the psychopath develop the "inner compass" or a true sense of empathy but it may just help train them to avoid doing things that get them in trouble. <<

That is a profoundly helpful peice of information. One I am going to think about intently. I am dealing with a particular situation with one son that I need to make a decesion on.

Thank you again Eithne for sharing in such straight forward and intelligent information.

I'm very appreciative.
Finished

Eithne,

What I have heard is that psychopath burn out in their forties. WOuld that be right? of course, they don't change, but they become more subtle. I believe that by that time they sometimes realize that they are not like others. So it that sense, they may try to dissimulate they abnomality.

Finished wrote: "My two youngest sons have also exhibited P behavior. Husband and father is P#1 in my life. They all show similiar characteristics. P#1 was an alcholic and I thought that was what the behavior was all about. The two younger sons also drink and drug and have been in trouble with the law. (Possession, DUI'S). But the lying, stealing, cheating, manipulating their way in and out of situations, I am beginning to wonder if they are P's rather that substance abusers. The behavior is sooooo similiar and the characteristics."

Hmmmmm. As I said before, I would be very hesitant to try diagnosing someone as psychopathic or narcissistic on my own, simply because a good diagnose needs someone with some distance from the situation. Something to think about is that psychopathy is a very rare condition and there is not known to be a genetic link. Doesn't mean there may not be one, just that it hasn't been discovered yet.


This may be a difference that makes no difference for you in your life right now. So far as I am aware, the same basic principles that work for dealing with family members who are substance abusers are what is recommended for dealing with family members who are psychopaths.

I think the reason they work is because they focus on the one person you can control: yourself. They set up a framework that gives you inner strength and makes your boundaries clear. It finally gets down to the fact that you can't change anyone else so you have to become someone that can't be harmed by a loved one's bad behaviour.

And really, it all comes down to stuff that most of our mothers or grandmothers told us: never lie, not even for someone we love; don't help the people we love do bad things; nothing in life is free, don't expect to get something for nothing; an honest man can't be cheated; etc.

Hopefull wrote: "What I have heard is that psychopath burn out in their forties. WOuld that be right? of course, they don't change, but they become more subtle. I believe that by that time they sometimes realize that they are not like others. So it that sense, they may try to dissimulate they abnomality."

I think both my friend and you are probably right. My friend was talking about violent behaviour and crime. Stuff that puts people in jail for non-trivial lengths of time.

I think you're talking about the ability to con people, maintain longer relationships, etc.

My sense of Stepson is that he was aware he was different from others from a fairly early age. He simply assumes that his way is an advantage.

Eithne

>>I think the reason they work is because they focus on the one person you can control: yourself. They set up a framework that gives you inner strength and makes your boundaries clear. It finally gets down to the fact that you can't change anyone else so you have to become someone that can't be harmed by a loved one's bad behaviour.<<

I have been treating my relationship (for lack of better word) with P#2 as an addiction. In that I have been in a twelve step group almost everyday. And. . .yes. . .it has taken the focus off the "other" and put it on me. I believe this is the first time I have REALLY been in enough pain to take that first step in admitting I'm powerless over people, places and things. Especially people. In that I feel freer than I have in years and more willing to look at my own "character defects". I'm now focusing on myself the parts I've played and why. In my pain I'm willing to be honest with myself and willing to listen to others. . .accountabality.

>>This may be a difference that makes no difference for you in your life right now. So far as I am aware, the same basic principles that work for dealing with family members who are substance abusers are what is recommended for dealing with family members who are psychopaths.<<

Thank you for that. . .somehow it helps me feel more grounded. Like I am on the right path here. . .

Thank you Eithne. Very helpful.
finished

Eithne,

More I think of it, you may be right on violent not violent Ps. I remembered that the P I knew had history of delinquency, I guess burned out in the twenties and reinvented himself then and became a very well disguised sociopath and that phase seems to fade in the 40s.