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#2177 - 06/23/03 07:49 AM General Discussion - Part Two
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi,

Part One is getting quite loaded. If you don't find a thread already open and have a general question or comment, please post here.

Thanks,
Di

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#2178 - 06/03/03 09:27 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me" [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


NO CONTACT to me means peace of mind. A record has been broken. 21 days of absolutely no contact. Not a single call to ignore - no nothing and I am doing okay!!!! It's a miracle. I am changing, I am growing, I am recovering. Something I don't think I can do when I have contact of any kind with that P. I hope and pray that I will be strong enough when "contact" happens again to not be pulled back in. I really hope he doesn't make contact!! Today "No Contact" is fine with me. Thank you everybody for helping me to accept that no contact is good for me.

betterway


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#2179 - 06/03/03 02:39 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


YOU GO GIRL!!!

YOU SOUND SO MUCH BETTER ((((BETTERWAY)))!!!

Stronger, more sure and confident. Progress girl. . .you are making GREAT PROGRESS!!

Thanks for sharing. Your post is encouraging and an inspiration. We CAN do it. I'm so proud of you. I KNOW it is not easy.

Hugs,
finished

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#2180 - 06/03/03 03:38 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi (((finished))),
How are you doing? How is the NO Contact going with you? P. is not making contact that helps a great deal. I have never told him not too, never got to where I could. But he has to know that is my goal and eventually all his targets goals. Last month he told me "it goes both ways" concerning our communication. I am thinking sure does - the silence can go both ways if P just allows it to.

Molly's post about the "CASK" has been such a help. It described what the P. did to me perfectly. He was very intelligent and used that to trick and confuse me all the way.

We can do it "a day at a time". I can't promise I won't ever have contact, but I know today I am doing okay!!

take care,
betterway




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#2181 - 06/04/03 02:02 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,
You sound wonderful. Congratulations on 21 days of "No Contact".
-Leti

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#2182 - 06/05/03 03:03 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Betterway. . .

>>We can do it "a day at a time". I can't promise I won't ever have contact, but I know today I am doing okay!! <<

The best we can do is just for today. Today is all we have for sure. Tommorrow will take care of itself. Tommorrow we do it "one day at a time" again. :-)

I'm so glad for you Betterway. . . I know it's been a LONG, HARD journey out of that pit. I "see" and "hear" a different Betterway right now. . .probably the "old" Betterway is surfacing again. Isn't it good to be BACK!!!

Gosh, I'm so happy for you.

Love,

Finished

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#2183 - 06/05/03 04:04 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


I do feel different, finished. I have changed. I am no longer that naive gullible person I use to be. I will never be the person I was before meeting the P. I find myself sometimes thinking I am cold hearted now, maybe like I have also lost some of the good things. I am starting to trust myself again a little bit at a time. The P. worked hard on destroying my capability to trust my own instincts.

I was listening to a CHER CD the other day I like a couple of lines in her songs:
"I found somebody to take away the heart ache". I take that somebody to be that I am finding a new me. All I am learning and all that I want to do to change me is taking away the heart ache. Then another one is "I'm strong enough, to know that you have to go". I've known for along time P had to go, and now I am finally starting to make it more reality. It is a very hard road to travel. I still struggle with the awful hurt of betrayal. What the P. did to me is dispicable (sp?), beyond comprehension, beyond my human understanding, pure evil. In AA they say that alcoholism is Cunning, baffling and Powerful. I believe that saying applies to P's also.

I think it was on Dr. Hares website that it said, one way to help ourselves get away from the P. is for us to keep tearing them down in our minds (get rid of idealization). Others have said it is like we have to do to the P. what they have done to us. Devalue and discard. How terrible we have to do that, but it has been part of my recovery. To D&D someone I idolized and cherished has been so so hard and goes against my beliefs. I am a nice person and care about people. But dealing with a P. is abnormal and dealing with them is far from normal behavior on my part.

Thank you (((all))) for your love and support.

betterway


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#2184 - 06/06/03 06:27 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway. . .

>>I think it was on Dr. Hares website that it said, one way to help ourselves get away from the P. is for us to keep tearing them down in our minds (get rid of idealization). Others have said it is like we have to do to the P. what they have done to us. Devalue and discard. How terrible we have to do that, but it has been part of my recovery. To D&D someone I idolized and cherished has been so so hard and goes against my beliefs. I am a nice person and care about people. But dealing with a P. is abnormal and dealing with them is far from normal behavior on my part.<<

That is very good Betterway. For me it is not so much tearing down or bashing P anymore. I can look at him and see it for what it is. Something I read on another web site really helped me.

Okay. . .went to look for it and can't find it. I'll be back with it. It showed me I did not have to be cold or hard hearted but compassionate (from a safe distance).

Good for you (((Betterway))). You are doing AWESOME!!!!

I'm going to have a great day. . .you do the same :-) !

finished

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#2185 - 06/06/03 07:49 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

What does compassionate mean to you? When I was first in alanon I hated alcoholics I hated anybody that even drank because of what alcholism had done in my life. Now I have compassion for alcoholics and great respect for recovering alcoholics and I don't think everybody that drinks is an alcoholic anymore. After the P. experience I can truly identify with the agonizing withdrawals from an addiction.

Maybe true compassion for P's and especially the P. I knew might come someday. Part of my "No Contact" pratice is that I have to guide my thoughts from magical thinking and any hope that the P. is not a P. or maybe he deserves a chance. I don't seem to obssess as much anymore about the betrayal but I can't allow myself right now to have any kind of good thoughts about the P.

I would be very interested in reading the post you were talking about if you can find it.

I am not real active in alanon right now, the P. confusion kinda took over all my energy for along time. I do remember my alanon sponsor telling me to pray for those people that hurt me. One of the prayers I use to say is "God forgive them for they know not what they do - and forgive me for I may not know what I do to them". Now that is fine and good but as far as P. goes I believe he does know what he did to me. I don't think he had the capacity to understand the depth of the pain he inflicted on me. But other times I do know he knew and enjoyed it (conflicting thoughts - hmmm, P. produced). Alanon help me find spirituality. I lost some of that with the P. experience. I have prayed for God to help me. The P. had always said I was the problem so I wanted God to help me change. In the back of my mind I knew asking God for help may mean I had to leave the situation. But I ignored that thought and hoped God would help me to be able to stay around P. God did help me with the problem - he helped me find this sight and gave me the strength and courage to get out. Like the footsteps poem - God carried me during the trials and suffering. It didn't always feel like it but I trust God was guiding me the whole way through.

The 3 A's (Awareness, Acceptance, Action). Got that from alanon. However, when I look at this whole very very long P. experience. I can see that finding this forum has given me so much awareness - I am no longer in the dark. I have come along way with acceptance. Taking action even though the pain was so terrible has pushed me along in recovery. I got a long way to go and just knowing that the forum is here and there are so many people that identify will keep me moving forward (even if I have slips here and there).


I will continue to think about how I can have compassion for the P. It is very sad that the P. has such great superficial qualities. It is sad that he has such great acting capabilities that he uses for evil - maybe he could make good money in Hollywood!! lol

Everybody have a great day!
betterway

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#2186 - 06/08/03 08:06 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway!!

Still looking for that info. Your post and question to me was something that I need to think about. I do not want to give a glib or superficial answer. I know in my heart that I have been able to emotionally detach from P. It is different now. I still love P but it is very, very different. For me, love is not something that you can turn of and on like a light switch. I now see P now for who he is and what he is. I also have a greater understanding to why P's become P's. My reaction to him has become totally different.

I will be back to you when I find the piece that helped me to change my attitude towards this. Betterway, continue doing what works for you. I know for me I had to feel the anger and the bitterness until I could come to the place where I am at today. I believe that the P experience is very much like alcholism, cunning, baffling and powerful. Another this that I have learned is that P and N's usually have a problem with some kind of addiction. The addiction brings it to the fore front. Sam Vakin calls it co-morbidity.

I appreciate your posts Betterway. That last one really caused me to look inside to be able to describe what I mean by compassion. Thank you for asking the question. It was very thought provoking and I did not want to give you a "trite" answer. I'm still thinking. . .

With love,
finished

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#2187 - 06/09/03 09:59 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

Yes, absolutely. Many P's & N's have problems with addiction on some level. Whether it is alcoholism (my P), drugs, sexual compulsion, whatever.....I have read (either Hare, Vaknin or both) that it is the only way that the P's can "feel" (?) a sense of normalcy.
Thinking about it now....I once went out to a bar with my P and he was drinking me under the table. Still, he commented
that, even though I said I was drunk, that my personality didnt' change, that I was still the same person. Another red flag? In a manner of speaking I guess!!! However, it was the only time that he seemed to let his guard down and be more easygoing and less calculating....or so I remember.
Rick

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#2188 - 06/09/03 08:39 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everybody, it's been a while I have check the site.
Rick, what you are saying it is actually interesting. My P made allusion that it was normal to drink to be more loose. well, once I was saying that i was not very explicit because i had wine, i don't remember exactly his comment but he was saying how strange i was because normally one take wine to become different as that was imperative to become loose.

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#2189 - 06/09/03 08:41 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Rick, finished and betterwya, I just bought without conscience, although everything i have read on sociopath, my p always fits in the description, but honestly it is still mind blowing to read it word by word in black in white.

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#2190 - 06/09/03 09:46 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

Yes, Without Conscience is a very good book. I bought almost 6 months ago when I had just figured out that I was involved with a psychopath. I can totally relate to the way you feel. Seeing it in print is very powerful and affirming. Funny that you should mention it as I was just thinking that I should reread it... now that I am in a calmer, more grounded place.
Rick

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#2191 - 06/13/03 02:18 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Rick, that was a very good read, (Without Conscience) you should try to get your hands on Cleckley's "Mask of Sanity". It is still selling used, for about 100 clams, but most libraries have it. Very good book. Case studies by the Doctor who first brought pcychopaths to the notice of the medical community. Dr. Hare refers to this book often. Dr. Cleckley is a brilliant man and although Dr. Hare's book was written for the "lay community" and Cleckley's for his collegues, he writes so well and with such a dry wit that it is a great and informative read.

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#2192 - 06/18/03 03:17 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am trying to get my sister out of a relationship/marriage with a psychopath who has her totally brainwashed. He moved her 3000 miles away from her family and friends and now she has turned on all of us. It has been three years now, two years since I have last spoken with her. She tried suicide once already. I sent he an email at her work and the P threatened me with a restraining order. Does anything work? Can anyone that has been through this make any suggestions to me? He monitors all her communcation and answer all her emails.
She has no friends of family close by and now he P has her working two jobs because he claims he has Parkinson's Disease at 35 years old. He has also claimed in the past to have MS and emphysema. He doesn't like to work. Any words or suggestions would be helpful. I want to get her out of this sick relationship but she won't listen to anyone. Out of the 20 characteristics on Dr. Hare's checklist, he rates a 20. He is not physically abusive, but the mental abuse and control is unbelievable. Thanks. Robert

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#2193 - 06/18/03 04:06 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sorry Robert about your sister. I spent several years in several States working as a battered woman's advocate. Hard enough to extract a person from someone's clutches when they are determined to control them Robert, even harder when the isolated person doesn't want to leave. It is similar to someone who has to hit bottom with an addiction of some kind. And everyone's "bottom" is different. For some it is a hard slap, for some a black eye, for some Robert it has to be a brush with death. Even though you are desperate to pull your sister out of this situation, the only thing you can do it get the message to her that when she is ready to leave you will help her. If yoiu CAN get a message to her, at work perhaps, suggest that she make copies of all her important papers, SS card, birth certificate, etc. and put them in a safe place for the "run for it".

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#2194 - 06/19/03 08:32 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cordelia,

Excellent advice that you gave to Robert. I think the hardest thing that anyone can do is to let another person go through their process and difficult times without our trying to save them. Yes, it is no different than dealing with an addictive personality.....everyone has to hit their own bottom before they seek help.
Your advice concerning copies of important documents is also very good. Keeping a journal of the abuse would also be of use....but it also opens her up to discovery and retribution.
Robert, I agree with Cordelia. At least try to get a message to your sister stating that you are concerned for her health and safety and that you are available should she need help.
Rick

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#2195 - 06/19/03 12:51 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you both very much. She just had my email blocked at her work and since her husband answers her emails at home, it makes things very difficult. She hit rock bottom once and ran home to California from Florida for a few weeks, until he got her back in his web. She showed us the slit on her wrist when she tried to kill herself. She gives my family the ulimatum "unless you accept my husband, there will no contact". If I were to send her information on psychopaths, do you think it might register? Rick, do you think it could have registered with you? She has turned on everyone who has ever been close to her. She has no money left because he cashed out her 401K during the first year of marriage and has not stopped spending her money using credit cards. I asked her to check her credit report...which I am sure she won't.
This guy never physically harms her, but the mental control and abuse is so bad. But she "loves" him and worships him....It also makes it difficult because he moved her to Florida right after the wedding and we don't know anyone there to keep on eye on things.

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#2196 - 06/19/03 01:21 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
freedom Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 11
Hi everyone,
it is good to see how some of you keep the no contact going

i did not know which category i should write this
so here it is
i have to admit, i went back to visit p a few time
he keeps telling me he wants to marry me
and i mention how he offers his other ladies the same proposal
he says yes because he is in love with all of us
and whoever will say yes to his offer that would be it
i feel pretty dumb
he got me convince to get him his own place
so we could be together
i payed a month rent for him
so we could be together alone sometime
and he never stayed in it
i never saw the inside of it
he was not showing any interest at all
to be with me in this cute little house
so i lost the money
and i am losing the desire to be with him
he calls me early in the morning waking me up
saying he wants to see me
and then i don't hear from him when it would be an appropriate time to call

i said it before i will never go back to him
but this time it is true
which i said it before
i have been asking God to deliver me from the addiction that i have for p
so maybe He is answering my prayer
a lot of people who knows the situation are praying for me too
he tells his ex lady that i say bad things about her
which is the opposite
he does
i am defending her
when he talks bad about her
so now she is upset at me again
she had become nice to me after some people explained to her that i was not what p was portraying to her but now she is mad thinking i am saying bad things about her
i don't even feel like defending myself
i am tired of all this melodramatic scene

i keep busy working, taking care of my children
and dancing a lot

he was playing the other night
and i told the security guy
that i did not want this man in my car
p was in shock that i was not giving in to his little game
i told him that he did not show me any love at all
when i got a place for him
and it is over between us

case close

again thank you for being here
you are all a big part in my life
for seeing the truth
dealing with the truth
accepting the truth
now i want to act on the truth
no contact

freedom

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#2197 - 06/19/03 02:16 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me" [Re: freedom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You know Robert tread carefully. I tried (for the umteenth time) to help my younger sister in the same situation in Hawaii, we went (my younger brother and I and the police) to her workplace and basically shielded her with our bods all the way to the car as he's trying to grab at her. Bought her a ticket and sent her back to California, where she promplty call the perp back cried on his shoulder, gave him MY phone number and I received obscene phone calls at all hours for two weeks. I would like to recommend a book by Dr's Jacoson and Gottman called "When Men Batter Women" and I'll tell you why. This book will help you identify what your sister is partnered up with a little more. These two Docs identified two basic types of batterers (course there are sub-species. They call the one type the "Cobra" and this is the type that is dangerous in the home. Tend to blitz attacks, no remorse, no love, no empathy, can be sadistic. Interestingly enough, this batterer does NOT stalk. Because if the woman leaves, they could care less, no "attachment/abandonment disorder" no "if I can't have her nobody can", nothing like that they are cold reptiles. They are very dangerous in the home however. The "Pitbull" on the other hand is the one who stalks when left, who begs for the woman to come back who monitors and interrogates and promises to change. Women leave Pitbulls more often than they do the dangerous Cobras for just that reason, because the Pitbull will drive you nuts with their insecurities. The Cobra is the psychopath. It may help you understand the situation more. Go to the library and get some books about women who find themselves in domestic situations so you can at least answer some of your own questions. Remember, love, even the warped kind THRIVES on opposition, so sad as it is, yoiu may have to wait and watch while she quite possibly ruins her own life.

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#2198 - 06/19/03 02:18 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oops.

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#2199 - 06/19/03 03:51 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cordelia:

This post is very interesting, especially when I thought I had researched just about everything possible on P's.....I keep learning...wow!!!!

I believe my 'personal P' is doing just 'this'; what u write about regarding keeping her housebound, to his current wife. Everyday that I am in no contact with him I see more and more of the "illusion" I was caught in...my 'meds' have been decreased and I feel stronger and stronger even though we have another financial P to worry about.... I still feel, although money is very important to life...and especially when one has saved and worked years for it.....there is nothing worse than seduction and abuse of the heart as opposed to the bank account.....because the heart is the soul of the individual. ...shatter the soul and you destroy the person.

I was watching "Larry King" last night regarding the "Laci Peterson" Case. Actually I have had special interest in the case from the onset, as I believe to this point Peterson reflects the personality of a sociopath. This, of course...is only my opinion. I stay in tune with the progress or unfolding of the 'case' as it helps me to understand the'legal system' as well as how potential P's are regarded and viewed by society and ultimately dealt with. It is the same reason that I have read "Ann Rule" extensively and watch "American Justice, City confidential".

Please explain if u will, what your constant closing line means.....I don't understand.......

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#2200 - 06/19/03 06:03 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Robert,

Like many of us on this forum we found out in our own way
(we call it the "lightbulb moment") that what we were dealing with was a psychopathic or narcissistic personality. To answer your question, I simply don't know how I would have reacted had someone simply handed me the information. I found out, on my own, by doing research on the Internet concerning complusive lying. I was searching for information to explain behavioral patterns that I was unfamiliar with and found unusual and disturbing. As I have written, and as many of the people on this forum have echoed, what I found shook me to the bones.
I will tell you, though, that I was in a similar predicament because I was close with my P's family..particularly with the mother. I was advised to approach her in a loving way with all of the information...but did not spell it out to her. I created a list of the many personality traits and behaviors that I culled from various books, articles and websites that I located. Once we discussed this list and how her child fit the descriptions I told her that many people whom exhibited these behaviors were referred to as narcissists.... and a more difficult word to take into consideration, psychopaths. She had difficulty with the concept at first...but became more comfortable with the reality and the terminology once things became clear to her
and situations and experiences now made sense.
Of course, you don't have the luxury of sitting down with your sister and having a conversation. Perhaps you could send her a letter to her work address, tell her how much you care about her and are concerned for her health and safety and attach a list of the personality and behavioral traits for her to consider. Don't even spell it out to her, or explain what they mean. Just let it sink in. She may not even consciously realize many of the things that he is doing. Perhaps you conclude the letter by stating that
"this list describes traits that are inherrent to a particular personality issue that may explain her husbands behavior" and she is not alone in experiencing this. My guess is that she will find a way to get in touch with you to discuss this further once it sinks in. If need be, send her a phone card with the letter so that she can call you from a pay phone.
Keep in mind these are only suggestions and not something that I am telling you to do. These are ideas that I might consider if I were in the same position. You have to do what is comfortable for yourself.

Rick

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#2201 - 06/19/03 06:23 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cordelia,

You explained your closing line to me a few weeks ago and I understand it, your sense of humor, how it was a saying from your family, etc... However, Dusty was also confused by this and, I think, without trying to be brazen that you should possibly rethink including it in your future posts.
All of us on this forum think of ourselves as inherrently good people that were caught in a mind altering situation. We are the lucky ones because we have come to a heightened state of realization with our involvement in the P process. Many of us look forward to normal, healthy, loving and nurturing relationships where we are appreciated and respected for the many fine attributes that we can contribute. Having said this, perhaps it would be a good idea if you were to choose another sentence that gives us hope.
Please do not take offense, but I do find it unsettling as well.
Rick

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#2202 - 06/20/03 02:59 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for your input Rick. Part of inner-strength is having a healthy sense of humor. The fact that you are so sensitive is probably why you didn't recognize the snakes in your own liferight away. From what you say, you had to research extensively to realize what many of us just percieve rather quickly. Humor, I notice, is almost an I.Q. test AND an emotional wellness test. People who flinch too easily at twisted adages in my opinion are really just masking hidden hostilities and are too craven to be open about it. I work in a large hospital with a varied patient population. Because of my twisted sense of humor, many of our more wounded and paranoid patients know they can trust me.

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#2203 - 06/20/03 04:30 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cordelia:

In response to your last post let me say I was disappointed with how you chose to address Rick.

I have enjoyed your postings thus far, but today when I read your reply to his suggestion, I feel you were some out of line. In re-reading Rick's posting and agreeing with his suggestion of removing your closing "humour" statement...I would guess by your standards I am also too 'sensitive' and should develop a higher "humour I.Q." because I dont feel 'this' is THE forum to subtley/overtly berate or leave anything up in the air for our readers to have to discern. We have all gone through enough questioning and analysing already. I also 'feel' we ARE sensitive; duh!...Our P experiences have helped to over- reinforce that aspect and, I think HERE (forum) I/we should be able to feel comfortable in our vulnerabilities and the sharing of them. We need support and upfront info to calm our "sensitivies".

I feel Rick has contributed a great deal to this forum as I have been reading a long time and just recently started to post.

I hope you keep posting but please remember not all of us can share the same sense of humor or even understand that 'that' is what it is.

p.s. I still dont understand the intent of your closing line, but will carry on despite the mystery.

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#2204 - 06/20/03 06:05 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dusty,

Thank you for your support. It was very well written and touched me deeply. I stated my case out of concern and respect for all of the forum members and the unfortunate circumstances that bind us together.

Rick

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#2205 - 06/22/03 08:07 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Dusty!

>>p.s. I still don't understand the intent of your closing line, but will carry on despite the mystery.<<

I understand it like this: "what goes around . . .comes around"

and

"whatsoever a man soweth. . .that shall he reap". The Bible says that!

There is a "Higher Power" that brings justice.

I can only do what is right for me and leave the results with God. He is the only one who can bring healing and recovery if I am willing to cooperate by learning all I can as fast as we can.

One of the great things about this forum is that I can express myself freely. I take what I like (and works for me) and leave the rest.

Keep pressing on Dusty. . .you are making great progress.

Thank you for expressing your truth. . .that's great progress!!!

(((love)))
finished

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#2206 - 06/22/03 09:48 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished:

You are a sweetie!

thankyou for your thoughts.......

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#2207 - 06/23/03 07:49 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi again Dusty!

Here's another one I couldn't remember last night.

In the circle of life. . ."What we send into the lives of others comes back into our own".

That's good to know isn't it??? !!!! Maybe another take could be "poetic justice".

Have a GREAT day Dusty.

(((more hugs)))
finished

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#2208 - 07/08/03 09:14 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States

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#2209 - 07/18/03 01:04 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me" [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's three in the morning and I am awake and crying. I'm not crying becasue he's gone. I'm crying because I am very alone. I feel like nobody cares about me at all.

No contact is not a problem. My P has dumped me and is of course not willing to contact me. It's not all that hard for me to not call although I think about it. How is no contact going to help me cope with what's left after this devastation.

He's done this before, is gone for a year and then comes back. Except this time is different. He's on lithium. It seems to help him be a better P. He doesn't need me anymore. I can't offer financial support.

What is with this leaving and coming back that they do. I don't understand it. Could you explain to me the mechanics of this behavior. My P would leave when our relationship was in my view doing well. It seemed unrelated to me (his leaving). What is that

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#2210 - 07/18/03 08:10 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I don't understand it. Could you explain to me the mechanics of this behavior. My P would leave when our relationship was in my view doing well. It seemed unrelated to me (his leaving). What is that<<

Algaringo. . .his leaving has NOTHING to do with you. It is all about him. His stuff. He is a P. He has no conscience. He could care less about your pain. The no contact rule is for you. As you see less of him the more you can heal. When I am around P#2 it stirs up all that old emotional garbage. Then it takes awhile to get my head on straight again. I know you are in pain right now. It will be hard for a while but there will come a time when things will begin to change but only if you learn all you can as fast as you can. It is a living nightmare with these P's.

Take care of yourself Algaringo.

Love
finished

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#2211 - 07/21/03 09:50 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


I imagine that P's must go into addiction as a way of feeling something. If you are emotionally vacant what better than to find the rollercoaster ride of drugs. The problem is that they the p's, at least my ex are drugs too. His effect on me was cocaine like. There would be the high of the charm and touchy feely followed by the 13 floor elevator drop of rejection. And I would be chasing that high and trying to avoid that withdrawal.

The funny thing is that what I can't explain is how he got so much worse the final year. He started functioning better and making money. He became increasingly callous, obsessed with business. Almost a more efficient P.

As to forgiveness which betterway mentions in the preceding post that it has a place after complete detachment. I am finding it easier to detach by being angry at him and recognizing him for the evil human being I think he is.

I think it also helped to see that once he got on lithium instead of becoming a more even tempered better person, he became more efficient at his psychopathy. That is frightening. He has finally scared me to death, and I've reached my bottom.

Algaringo

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#2212 - 07/23/03 07:43 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>As to forgiveness which betterway mentions in the preceding post that it has a place after complete detachment. I am finding it easier to detach by being angry at him and recognizing him for the evil human being I think he is.<<

For me anger came before forgiveness. I got there eventually but only after I was able to understand the underlying dynamics of what made P a P. His childhood experience was probably very similar to mine. Somewhere along the line he developed into a P and I developed with my own stuff. . .codependant stuff. I became "addicted" to P's.

>>I think it also helped to see that once he got on lithium instead of becoming a more even tempered better person, he became more efficient at his psychopathy. That is frightening. He has finally scared me to death, and I've reached my bottom.<<

I hear you Algaring. I have been there also. You are in my heartfelt prayers. I am praying for your safety and protection . . .and the answers you are seeking.

finished



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#2213 - 08/02/03 06:17 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everybody,

Some things happened this week (not contact, thank God) that have triggered some anger. Then this morning I woke up after a somewhat indirect P related dream and felt some old feelings of PTSD.

I am so tired of the "P" going through life acting as if he is so special and people treating him that way. Those around him also get special treatment from others, good treatment if part of his world, bad if they are on to him. He loves others to know he is being treated special. He says they are jealous. Do you see it as jealousy?

I want to stay neutral concerning the P. I don't like him, I don't hate him, he is nothing. And I know when I feel anger or think about P's manipulative controlling world that I am giving him power that he doesn't deserve.

Thank you all for being here. I almost emailed a sarcastic little note about the most recent "specialness" to a past coworker that I still speak to on a rare occasion. Right before sending it I thought of all you guys and deleted that part of the message.

Hopefull, so glad you are heading up the hill of recovery.
Its been a pretty steep hill for me. Hopefully I will never roll all the way back down again. Good to see you, hopefull.

Oh, one other thing. I slipped this week and said something mean about P. to somebody. I feel guilt or maybe it is fear.

betterway

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#2214 - 08/02/03 07:21 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,
It good to hear that you are ok. I do have dream as well. they are always disturbing, I still think of that episode of my life. I feel I have lost of confidence. I have to do so much work on all areas. It is not an easy one.
keep on going!

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#2215 - 08/03/03 04:49 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Betterway!!!

>>I am so tired of the "P" going through life acting as if he is so special and people treating him that way. Those around him also get special treatment from others, good treatment if part of his world, bad if they are on to him. He loves others to know he is being treated special. He says they are jealous. Do you see it as jealousy?<<<

I think healthy people see P for who and what he is. I don't think they are one bit jealous. Healthy people would not be fooled or drawn in to P's game and if they were. . .eventually they would see it and get out ASAP!

>>And I know when I feel anger or think about P's manipulative controlling world that I am giving him power that he doesn't deserve.<<

Don't you think the anger is directed more on the behavior now that on the P? For me, it is repulsive and disgusting to see others make over him so when I know how he really is. Then. . .on the other hand. . .he knows that I know more about him than he would want me to know. Knowledge is power Betterway. It helps me realize that no one can sustain a relationship with him for a long period of time without becoming either wise to his stuff or spiraling down like I did.

>> I slipped this week and said something mean about P. to somebody. I feel guilt or maybe it is fear<<

You are a human being. . .and if you said something mean about P. . .it's no big deal. You have been dealt a devestating blow by P. One that is taking you years to get over. A mean comment once and a while is normal I would think. Probably needful. Let go of that guilt Betterway. . .there is no need!

(((hugs)))
finished

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#2216 - 08/11/03 10:48 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi finished,

Thanks for your post. I responded back to it the other day and the post got lost in cyberspace.


>>Don't you think the anger is directed more on the behavior now that on the P? For me, it is repulsive and disgusting to see others make over him so when I know how he really is. Then. . .on the other hand. . .he knows that I know more about him than he would want me to know.<<

I think since I'm not around the P. behavior on a daily basis anymore that maybe my anger is more directed at the behavior not him personally. He is like the energizer bunny, he just keeps on going on and on and on(I heard or read that somewhere). He is who he is and he is gonna keep on doing what he has always done. Just not to me anymore.

Have a great P. free day,
betterway

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#2217 - 08/12/03 07:50 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey there Betterway!!!

So good to hear from you! I think of you much and wonder how you are doing.

Today a probably good thing happened to me. P called and abused me verbally. Something he has never done before. He berated me and spoke to me in the most demeaning tone. He raised his voice to me and spoke "like I was a dumb ass" . I was so very upset and told him to lower his voice. I also told him I did not like his tone and I was not a fool.

Bertterway. . .This was HUGE for me. I have NEVER EVER expressed myself like that (nor did I need to) he has NEVER done that before. But I DID IT!!!!!!!!! Hurray for me!! I was SO proud of myself. Maybe this does not sound like alot. . . but for me it was GINOMEOUS!! (GI-NOR-MOUS) BIG. . .BIG. . .BIG!!!

Tomorrow I QUIT!!!! Oh girl. . .blessed relief. I'm going to do it.

I thank God that He allowed this little senerio and He did for me what I could not do for myself. It is giving me a way out!!!

I cried for about 20 minutes then cleaned the mascara off my face and took my sweet dog for a walk!

Oh Betterway. . .I finally feel like I can be FREE!!!

Love to you dear sister friend. Let me know how you are doing! Is everything going okay??
finished

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#2218 - 08/13/03 02:56 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

Bravo!!! It's an incredible turning point for you to be able to express yourself and stand up to your P. Certainly he was not expecting this and it caught him off guard. I applaud you. This was not easy to do. Believe me, I know!

Rick

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#2219 - 08/13/03 07:28 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Rick. . .thank you. . . .thank you. . . thank you!!!!

Today I wrote my letter of resignation and took it to his store and left it in his desk drawer. One he always checks for messages. It was short and to the point. I didn't see any reason to deliver it in person as I could pretty much predict his reaction. The shrug and indifference. No need to put myself in that position.

Yes Rick, it IS a turning point for me. I don't know if I have ever stuck up for myself with hardly anyone. It's all that D.I.V.S. stuff :-). . .it has really helped me understand what is abuse and bad behavior.

I've felt very emotional today. Angry, sad, sad, angry, sad again. But. . .I know. . .I've made a decesion and with Gods help (one day at a time) I'll keep moving forward. This HAD to happen. Thank you times a thousand for your validation and support! xxxooo FINISHED :-)

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#2220 - 08/13/03 08:36 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


(((((finished))))),
Im so happy for you! Once I found the forum and started learning about P's I found that I was able in small steps do what I needed to do for me, when the time was right for me. One of my most recent slogans is "feel the feelings but keep on doing what I know I have to do". I too was very emotional when I quit my job. There is no way around the feelings, finished. I wish there was. Each step we take in our recovery will help those feelings to change, so the P. doesn't have such a strong pull on us. It is because we are such caring and loving people that we feel sad. It is sad to let go of someone we cared so much about. It is sad to let go of the dream. It is sad to break all ties. However, it is even sadder if we stay and keep feeling the pain. I still today feel the lost of my so called friend. I sometimes think it is the excitement I miss. Then I ask myself is all the excitement and drama is worth all the pain. I know he is absolutely toxic for me. Sometimes I think I will call him up and say hello, hows it going. You know what, I know that would send me into a tailspin and I don't want to loose my "no contact" and start over. He is a very intelligent P. and knows exactly what to say to mess me up. I will not give him the chance. Will I pick up the phone if he calls? I hope I won't. My plan is I won't pick up the phone, I will come here and share and give myself some time to decide. I'm not going to rush back into anything that has anything to do with the P.

Yes, finished, with Gods help and this forum we will make it One Day at a Time. Just for today I choose to have no contact with the P. Just for today I choose to take care of my needs and learn to relax again.

Take care,
betterway




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#2221 - 08/13/03 10:58 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished:

congratulations!!!. every step made with your positve welfare in mind is another step away from the seductive draw of the P. i am sincerely happy for you.

it is interesting to note regarding myself that what is prevalent now is more in my mind than in reality with reference to P. i could , i believe see him on the street, talk to him in person, and 'that' would not bother me as much as the 'illusion' of him/the dream that he helped create that i struggle with every day.

i truly believe the external P is dead. it is the 'residual P illusion' that still haunts, reminds, beckons, questions...for P is the creator of the dream that triggered off many deep internal parts of Dusty.

this is the task that awaits me now and has been for some time. it is why i do alot of meditation and watching 'where' my thoughts stray to, because it is 'here' that i can keep uprooting the seeds of his damage and my naivity and unfulfilled fantasies.

triggers can come from anywhere at anytime.









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#2222 - 08/13/03 11:07 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

Congratulation! It is something to have a moment that bring to the edge, a point of no return. That is what happen to me , it was beyond the acceptable. I could go back other I would have felt like a retard.
It is great to you have resigned. It is more than resigning work. Now , I am sure you are opening doors. Feel good!

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#2223 - 08/14/03 07:59 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh thank you all for your kind and encouraging words. It was pretty dramatic (what's new huh?) the events that led up to it. I got to tell you though, today I have a whole new level of respect for myself. I handled myself with dignity, self respect and class. I am so overwhelmed with gratitude. I am so grateful to everyone on the forum (and to so many who no longer post) for the validation, encouragement and support I have received. When all of this "came down". . .you all were the first I wanted to share it with. I knew you would understand what a huge break through this is for me. Gosh I appreciate you all so. . .and Di. . .you are awesome for providing this haven for us. I know I have a long way to go but I've just made it over another hurdle! God bless you all!

Love and. . .
. . .(I'm) FINISHED (with at least one more chapter. Stay turned folks for the next exciting episode of "How the World Turns with Finished"). :-)

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#2224 - 08/14/03 08:10 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>it is interesting to note regarding myself that what is prevalent now is more in my mind than in reality with reference to P. i could , i believe see him on the street, talk to him in person, and 'that' would not bother me as much as the 'illusion' of him/the dream that he helped create that i struggle with every day.

i truly believe the external P is dead. it is the 'residual P illusion' that still haunts, reminds, beckons, questions...for P is the creator of the dream that triggered off many deep internal parts of Dusty. <<<

Dusty. . .I couldn't have said it better myself. You were just able to put into words a vague concept I've also had of that very same thought.

Thank you Dusty. . . I really appreciate your insight and being able to put that thought into words.
(((hugs)))
finished

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#2225 - 08/14/03 08:18 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway,

"Sometimes I think I will call him up and say hello, hows it going. You know what, I know that would send me into a tailspin and I don't want to loose my "no contact" and start over. He is a very intelligent P. and knows exactly what to say to mess me up. I will not give him the chance. Will I pick up the phone if he calls? I hope I won't."

Ain't that the truth!!!! I often fantasize about picking up the phone, meeting for coffee, etc..... But these fantasies involve "normal" conversations and exchanges. We all know that is just not possible when dealing with a P. You are right....it would send me into an absolute total tailspin!!!!

Rick

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#2226 - 08/15/03 03:03 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>>Sometimes I think I will call him up and say hello, hows it going. You know what, I know that would send me into a tailspin and I don't want to loose my "no contact" and start over. He is a very intelligent P. and knows exactly what to say to mess me up. I will not give him the chance.<<<

Oh Betterway. . .I have wondered many times if P#2 practices that mind control stuff. You know. . .like mental telepathy? It just seems to coincedential that out of the blue the obsession begins again. Those intrusive thoughts. I believe I am picking up on HIS vibe. Then when I cave. . .he has that diabolical satisfaction that he still have that power and control over me.

I don't know. Just a thought.

((((Betterway))) Thank you so much for your kind words to me. I know we share some very similar experiences and I know you understand.

Take goooood care of yourself today!
xxxooo to you.
Finished

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#2227 - 08/15/03 05:53 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

"I have wondered many times if P#2 practices that mind control stuff. You know. . .like mental telepathy? It just seems to coincedential that out of the blue the obsession begins again. Those intrusive thoughts. I believe I am picking up on HIS vibe. Then when I cave. . .he has that diabolical satisfaction that he still have that power and control over me."

Tell me about it! I can go many days with barely a thought of my P. Then there are other days that I feel like I'm stuck in a vice grip.... I just can't get my P off of my mind. Like you, I wonder if my P is thinking about me and I am keyed into it in a way. I know better though..... P's move on and don't feel longing, much less any of the other mid-range emotions. In any event, I try to turn these emotions/incidences around and send out the message "It is me that is thinking about you, only now it is different. I know exactly who you are and what you are capable of. You cannot fool me any longer. Aside and apart of what you put me through, I wish you happiness and peace, if you even understand these concepts."

It is fascinating that we have all experienced many of the same feelings..... even in the distant wake that a psychopath trails behind. Adulation, confusion, frustration, disappointment, awareness, relief, disbelief.... and now, in a manner, obsession. As I stated in a recent post, to me this obsession is not unlike the retired criminal detective... scouring the newspapers years after the fact.... hoping to find that one missing clue that finally completes the loose ends of the case.

Rick

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#2228 - 08/15/03 09:50 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi finished,

>>I have wondered many times if P#2 practices that mind control stuff. You know. . .like mental telepathy? <<

Whenever I here someone on the forums mention brainwashing/mental telephathy etc. it reminds me of a time when I only knew P. for a few months. I was sitting in his car one day when he was out doing who knows what and I saw a magazine sitting in the seat. It had a wierd title and I didn't have time to really look at it before P. came back to the car and saw me glancing at it. He grabbed it away suspiciously and said "oh, thats not mine". I didn't think another thing about it until I learned about P's. It could have been anything, but still wonder sometimes what it was.

Have a great day,
betterway


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#2229 - 08/15/03 11:17 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished,

We may seldom feel unintelligent to believe in what you call telepathy, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I have too felt that way before, that all in sudden you feel obsessed again and you even at the same time run into that person, by coincidence. Very weird. But I have to say that I wish I could have come up with some scientific explanation, but I can't.
I understand what you are talking about.

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#2230 - 08/17/03 01:24 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hopeful & Finished:

i find what you both wrote here so very interesting regarding the 'mental telethapy". i have gone through this so, so many times, i too gave great thought on this potential. i have always had an interest in the 'mind' and 'soul' and have done years of background research via many high profile authors in regards to this. i have even been interested in 'past life' theory etc. i was desperate years back when i was still INVOLVED with P to find some some answer as to why all this was happening the way it was.

i remeber at work when he was there still, totally unplanned, no reference to time co-ordindation etc., we would show up on the same floor and with 600+ employees in the building, its JUST him and me?.......yes...many times this and much more happened. he had no way of knowing when i would slip downstairs to grab a doughnut or whatever, yet the 'timing' was too exact. we were not even speaking at this point and yet this was happening. i have stories of dozens of 'per chance' run-ins and meetings..ALL unplanned on both parties.....i am positive of this as i have researched my mind over and over to make sure there was no possibility of 'intention'. perhaps they do have a 'psychic ability', at one point i was positive of it. but even if they do, it is always our choice if we want to entertain their 'power' if in fact they truly have any.

this is far easier for me to say NOW at the point of acceptance/recovery i am in. in the past i would have 'seen it' as a 'hopeful sign' we were somehow meant/linked to one another. and perhaps that is true....( i am a person who will entertain ALL possibilites as there is no limit to the human mind that we know) but i now refuse to veil an abusive relationship (with ANYONE) with support thoughts and feelings of love and affection.

i believe totally i DID love my P....oh with all my heart, and if i could have 'fixed' him, it would be done. but i discovered after long painful repetitions of defeat that all the love in the world could not grant me the omipotence that i believed earlier would overcome 'dysfunction of this nature'.

although in thinking ..ALOT..and reading as much, i have come to agree with much of material i have researched, that SOME cases for reasons too lengthy to chat on about here, can be helped.

these are my opinions based on my research, my hopes/beliefs (for the world of anti social disorder) as well.

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#2231 - 08/17/03 02:26 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway, Finished, Rick:

talk about mental telethapy and the likes. this happened to me just a week or so after i saw P drive by my house.

i had to really get a 'reality check'.

i was in a major grocery store checking out and looked over at the man who was in line in the next checkout stand.
i just about freeked becuz what i saw was an almost 'clone' of P...standing right there...and now noticing my intent gaze fixated on him! my heart went pumping fast etc, becuz my mind knew it wasnt him becuz this man was a little, not much tho, but some taller. i KNEW it wasnt P...but the similarity was TOO MUCH...i would say he 'cloned' 90-95% in all over appearence to P.......

anyways he left the store but did a 'turn back' look directly at me. great ,so now i worry that he feels i am attracked to him.

no matter i think, as i walk out into the lot. well timing has it so the 'look-a-like P' is just stepping into the parking lot and i am a little behind him heading for my care which is parked waaaaaaaay back in the lot. i feel stupid now also becuz i wonder if he is wondering why i was staring so intensly.

i was going to cross over and walk down the other aisle way but as i got closer to him he did the same before i did......so now we r walking in tandum.!!!!!

yes..he did strike up a conversation with me about the 'weather'...sheesh...(like that is original)...and i debated in my head so mega fast..."should i talk to him or not?"....i then answered but only a bit to keep a safe distance. all the time i am in awe at how he even WALKS like P and dresses like P...........my GOD!!>..same age too with a few years i am sure!!

to end this..i got to my car, he asked if i was married etc..i replied "yes!"...he said he was alone and a truker...his big rigg was parked over just 5 stalls from me....we both went on our ways........

i was still shaken the next day to see someone so similar and although he was 'nice and polite' he was trying to pick me up and i wondered if he , too, was another P.

hate to think like this, but i now scrutinzie ALL.

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#2232 - 08/22/03 08:30 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


I must tell you of an experience I had many months (maybe even a year and a half) before P#2 and I "got together". Actually there were two experiences that I can remember right now.

I was at my daughters house and had the MOST REALISTIC dream that P#2 was kissing me. In my dream it was a very precious thing. I remember waking up immediately and wondering if P was thinking of me. It was VERY realistic and EXTREMELY real. He called me the next day (I'm out of town) just to say Hi and check in. . .you know. . .how am I doing etc.

The second time I am out of towm again at another daughters house and this time I wake up and I am crying. I had a dream where P#2 was actually touching me. I woke myself up crying. . .it was so real I thought he was there at first. It was like he was physically there. I could almost feel his presense and at first (when I was waking) I thought HE WAS THERE.

I remember exactly how I felt just like it was yesterday.

Another thing. . .there were MANY times I felt this sexual energy come over me just out of the blue. I mean I wasn't even THINKING about it. And again... I would wonder. . .is he sending these thoughts to me. It was TOTALLY intrusive. Nothing I had conjured up.

I don't know. . .

Just sharing my experience.

This has been a horrendous week.

Love to all
finished

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#2233 - 08/22/03 09:00 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Finished:

what u write here sounds so familiar. i,too, have had soooo many of these times. and had the phone calls the next day or the email or siting.

is it that they have 'mental transference' abilities or is it that they affected us soooo greatly and 'flashbacks' haunt us just as a stress victim in other circumstances would have?...or could it be both?

i so so understand what u say here. i have questioned this so often. i have talked with friends about it. i think they feel i am making more of it then should be. but then they never had this P experience. nobody can truly understand until they themselves have been through the experience.

its like my sweet mom always told me years before i had my own kids, that i would never understand until i had my own, WHAT it was all about.

well she was more than right on. u have to live the moments, the particular ups and downs, the crannies that r filled with 'P horror and doubt and love' all happening at the same time.

i dont know if u read my post about the 'look-a-like P' situation i had about 2 weeks ago.......who tried to pick me up!!!it was so weird......it was shortly AFTER ex P did a drive by my house.

this is what i mean when i say there is so much we dont know about P's and the human mind.

very interesting.

hope all is well with u.

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#2234 - 08/22/03 09:07 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Dusty,

I did read about your "P look-a-like". . .and I could relate in this way. Many times I will see people from the back or side view and think. . .there is P. It isn't but the similarities are so close that I start the obsessing again.

It IS weird. It is like I am ALWAYS looking for him. . .

It is as you said in another post . . .the residual P always invading out thoughts but only an illusion!

Oh Dusty just when I thought I was out. . .the emotions begin again.

I have been reading about the "cure". For me that means HOPE. I dare not in regards to P. Only in another life maybe. . .but not here. . .and not for me.

I'm going through another phase of the grief and loss.

finished

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#2235 - 08/22/03 09:25 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished:

i again..so understand.

been there,

likely will be back, but i AM gonna beat ALL this [censored].

big hugg!!

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#2236 - 08/22/03 09:45 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi finished,

>>I have been reading about the "cure". For me that means HOPE. I dare not in regards to P. Only in another life maybe. . .but not here. . .and not for me.<<

I agree. I dare not have any hope either for the P. that is what kept me hanging on for so long. Even if there is some small chance of hope for the P. I don't want him. I have been away from the psycho terror for about 3 months now and I know I can't take the chance that he will change. I can't go back for seconds. Ive been to hell once and I don't want to go back.

>>It IS weird. It is like I am ALWAYS looking for him. . . <<

I still look at cars that I see from the corner of my eye that might be his. I don't know why. Guess what I have seen him twice this week (after absolutely no contact for about 90 days) both times from my car and I think he only saw me one of the times. Our cars were right next to each other today and when I saw him something happened. I didn't feel the panick feeling I felt the last 2 years, I just felt kinda in shock. I have been working so much on feeling neutral as if he is no one to me, he is just another passer by. I didn't wave and I felt guilty but only for a few seconds. I miss who I thought he was, not who he proved himself to be. On occasion my thoughts strayed to seeing him today, but I reminded myself that he is only a memory. I have made small improvements. I have to drive by many places while working where I know he hangs out or use to. I use to look. I am learning to look straight ahead not look and pat myself on the back. It is wonderful to keep moving forward.

>>I'm going through another phase of the grief and loss.<<

((((finished)))), keep trudging forward. Trust it will get better. I know in the midst of it all sometimes it didn't feel like it for me, but it has.

I was just thinking today about something the P. said in one of our last conversations. He called me and said "you were thinking about me weren't you"? The funny thing is at that very moment I wasn't and I told him so. I think he got off on the fact that I was so obsessed. One time I told him I couldn't let go. He said "yeah, I know". This is kinda spooky stuff. He was very much into trying to figure people out and use them for his games. He told me he did this with other people, but not to me. Yeah, right. I was special. LOL.

Finished, hang in there.

Take care,
betterway




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#2237 - 08/22/03 10:50 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway:

ha!...i hear u!

i have to watch for burgundy pick up trucks......i see them all over......and i try not to!!!

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#2238 - 08/23/03 07:11 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


(((Dusty,Betterway)))

God bless you for you words of encouragement and validation. I can mentally assent to the progess of putting it behind. . .putting it into practice is a whole nother thing.

Today is a new day. I'm practicing step 1,2,& 3. Thank you for being here my friends.

(((love)))
finished

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#2239 - 08/23/03 07:47 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I can mentally assent to the progess of putting it behind. . .putting it into practice is a whole nother thing. <<

Yes, finished, very hard to put into practice. I found that I could know in my head that I needed to put it all behind me, yet my heart wouldn't let me. I gave so much of myself to that friendship that letting go with my heart was the hardest thing I have had to do. Give it time, finished, as long as your moving forward (even if we have little slips)is what matters. The P. use to tell me to do what is in my heart. LOL. To walk away was not in my heart, but it has been the best thing for me in the long run.

Enjoy today,
betterway



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#2240 - 08/23/03 10:18 PM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Betterway and Finished,

Yes, I am often able to keep my eyes looking straight ahead when I pass through my P's neighborhood. However, more often than not I do look. Fortunately, I am not in that area of town so often. I have encounterd my P's vehicle... parked downtown. Fortunately, my P was not in the vehicle...nor did I go looking. I will say that it did make me sick to my stomach though.
You know, once we have spent a great deal of time with people (in general) we are able to read them in a way....their body language, facial expressions, perhaps picking up on the subtle symbols that enable us to decipher what is going through their heads. I was never able to do this with my P (and I would consider myself a very intuitive and aware person). I commented that "I can't read you" and my P said to me "yes, everyone says that...and when people try to read me I back off, step away."
On another note I had dinner this week with a business associate. He started telling me of a recent, short-lived relationship...only two months. However, he was absolutely transfixed by this person and started behaving in ways that he would not typically find himself behaving in. Things began to seem odd to him, this other person was lying quite a bit, wasn't able to commit to anything in the future, was not able to express emotions, had a rather blank stare in the eyes, was incredibly good looking/attractive. Anyhow, it all sounded like familiar territory to me...and I asked my friend some key questions. Certainly I don't want to seem like a paranoid...but it is interesting that P-like behavior seems to be on the rise. This story ends on a bittersweet note as this (potential P) committed suicide recently. Acutally, I think my friend is rather fortunate not to have to live with the ghost of a living person.....at least there is some closure on a a certain level.

Rick

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#2241 - 08/24/03 08:51 AM Re: "What "NO CONTACT" means to me"
Anonymous
Unregistered


>> I commented that "I can't read you" and my P said to me "yes, everyone says that...and when people try to read me I back off, step away."<<

P. spent alot of time making sure people couldn't read him. He enjoyed making people believe things were a way they really weren't. He told me he liked to make people wonder what he was up to. When D&D started I confronted him and he said "things aren't always as they seem, are they". He had me and all the others (well, almost all of them) fooled. He loves it that only I know the truth of what really happened. It is our little secret that he was so afraid I would let out, so he had to quiet me with psycho terror.

In the end I realized that P. had several different personalities. I was talking to him on the phone one time as he walked from his motorcycle in to his office and he changed in an instant as he walked through the door. He was talking to me normally (at least what I thought was normal at the time) and then he switches to high charm with everybody in the office and devalues me with his voice. It was as if I wasn't even there and he just wanted to get off the phone and walk into his new scenario he had been creating.

This is all very interesting to me. I am able now with "NO CONTACT" to begin to see things clearer since the pain is not "In My Face" on a daily basis.

betterway


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#2242 - 09/01/03 04:09 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


To Recovery:

Hi - just seen you on line - hope you see this before you log off.

I've read your story and there are so many points of similarity to mine. Especially the fact that yours was even worse when he gave up drink, and used going back to drink as a perpetual threat. Mine was like that two. Both of them were child abusers as well. I really feel for you and your fight to have him denied access to your little girl. Am praying for both of you.

Ali

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#2243 - 09/01/03 05:45 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi Ali

I just dip in and out while at work. Everytime the similarities are mentioned I get a shiver down my spine - it is uncanny how they operate on such a similar basis. This makes me believe that it is nature rather than nurture that causes most of the damage prior to birth and also explains why there is an almost zero chance of 'curing' a real P. It also explains why they can hide so well behind a normal family of parents and siblings. Also explains why so many people who were badly abused as children do not grow up to be a P but - although damaged - can lead a pretty normal life. I think nurture has a part to play in producing some pretty nasty types, though not necessarilly Ps. I have skimmed your story but will read it and get back to you too. Nice to hear from you - even though we could all do without the past that has brought us to this site.

Best of luck
recovery

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#2244 - 09/02/03 01:17 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: recovery]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, the similarities in all our stories are scary. Also, the similarities in the way we all put up with this unbelievably bad behaviour for no logical reason. It's made me feel a lot better about my own sanity to know that there are others who have experienced the same things. There have been a lot of times I have doubted myself - could he REALLY have been that bad, or am I a nutter and making things up in my own mind? But since reading this site I know that it is not me - he really was that bad, and it was typical P behaviour.

I agree with you that it is nature rather than nurture. My P had a wonderful mother and a stable home life, although his father was a bit of an alcoholic. Knowing that it is probably a deformity of the brain makes it much easier to stop hating them. Hate is such a corrosive emotion. It also makes it much easier to realise that no contact is the only hope, as they will never change. Very sad.

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#2245 - 09/14/03 11:49 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Does anyone else have this problem? And how do you deal with it? It's now many years since I left the P and a couple of years since I last had any contact with him. But I have a real problem with having a relationship with anyone else. I'm fine when on my own, but as soon as I get involved with a man (or even THINK about getting involved!) I start getting PTSD flashbacks and become a nervous wreck all over again. Any comments and ideas would be appreciated!

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#2246 - 09/16/03 04:18 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ali,

I have the same problem. I am extremely hesitant to meet anyone and have a hard time considering romance at this point. When I have gone out on dates and, at the odd moment, found myself feeling comfortable and interested I hear a voice in my head that says "hold on....you don't really know this person." Then I start asking calculated questions concerning emotion, feelings, past relationships, friendships, family, etc..... Of course this all ruins it for me in a way. I don't enjoy having to think like a CIA operative! I want to trust someone wholeheartedly. BUT I'm not really sure that I will ever be able to do that again.

I have really been in a downward cycle these days.... thinking, obsessing, re-living events. Perhaps it is the way the planets are aligned right now!? Does anyone else feel this way at this moment?

Rick

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#2247 - 09/16/03 07:12 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Rick:

< I want to trust someone wholeheartedly. BUT I'm not really sure that I will ever be able to do that again. ........>>>>

Rick...yes YOU can feel trust again..it may come fleetingly at first, but REMEMBER those positive feelings........go back to them....remember the sensations when you are calm and feeling secure. use this visulization when you doubt. we certainly all have remembered when we were in the grips of the P...this is the same idea...just in reverse.........easy to say..harder to do...but each repetition strengthens us until we reach a new plateau.

you will slip back...but you are also moving forward.

we all do this...in all learning..whether in 'P land' or any other NEW or limiting/negative situation we want to move throgh.

remember that...as you climb this steep hill, it's not until you look back from time to time that you can really appreciate the distance you have travelled.




Edited by dusty (09/16/03 07:13 PM)

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#2248 - 09/16/03 07:49 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


The more I learn and observe the less I trust. There seem to be a lot of N's and P's out there. Maybe it is my heightened awareness but it seems epidemic to me. I don't even WANT a relationship right now. I wonder if I EVER will. That phone call a few weeks ago set off the PTSD. . .I'm still suffering from the aftermath.
Sadly,
finished

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#2249 - 09/16/03 10:24 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dusty,

Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.

"...it's not until you look back from time to time that you can really appreciate the distance you have travelled."
Love that!

Rick

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#2250 - 09/17/03 01:58 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi Rick.

Yes I do!.. Hope it lifts soon.

Recovery

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#2251 - 09/17/03 08:51 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>> I have really been in a downward cycle these days.... thinking, obsessing, re-living events. Perhaps it is the way the planets are aligned right now!? Does anyone else feel this way at this moment? <<<

I have been feeling this way in the past few days, too. I had been doing quite well until then. I think it's related to P trying to initiate contact again (or PMS which wouldn't be your issue ).

But the other thing it might be related to is time of year. September of last year was when P started being a real jerk to me. September also has some other negative associations for me and I tend to get in a bit of a funk this time of the year. The holidays often feel like this, too.

I think the mind tries to shield us from the pain of past traumas, but our memory clicks on a date, or time of year, and dredges up the past. I might not realize why I'm in a funk, until I look at the date and realize it's significant in some way. Just an idea about why we start spinning when there doesn't seem to be a good catalyst...


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#2252 - 09/17/03 11:35 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Finished:

oh boy!! i went through this a long time, still do at times, but i have made a decision through alot of positive reading and acceptance to try and see the good in others UNTIL i am sure otherwise. we can't let 'P tactics' color all the others, although i agree there seem to be alot of very selfish people out there. but even in those people, we can find parts that are good.

we now know about red flags. unlikely to happen this way in severity to us again. so we can move forward, slowly gaining confidence in ourselves. we must if we want a whole life.


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#2253 - 09/17/03 03:42 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lynnie,

Yes, the changing seasons do have something to do with it. And "seasonal memory", so to speak, does come into play. It was exactly one year ago when my P ended his adulation phase with me. This was when I started feeling scattered, unsure,
untrusting, confused.

Rick

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#2254 - 09/18/03 03:02 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Rick,

this is how it works for me.

I'm the type of person that when a new love comes into my life, they become my world. Of course when that person turns out to be "unstable", your world is in chaos.

Over the last few months I've realised that this is probably the problem. I shouldn't require someone else to come into my life and be my world.

I should have my own world, and I can keep that as stable as I like, if the next guy wants to come and visit me in my world, and I care to go an visit him in his world then I think I've a much better chance of holding it together if that person starts acting up. I'll still have my stable world and I won't let that person in anymore.

With that being my latest conclusion, it makes sense that I finally told P to take "a long walk off a short pier" last night ("You're not my world anymore, I've my own world and you are not welcome in it").

He recently went on holiday... but he wouldn't tell me where he was going, instead to stop us arguing about it being ridiculous that he couldn't tell me where he was going on holiday, he decided to "throw" that argument by winding me up on another issue that gets "under my skin".

Well I rumbled him, and told him I just wanted to know how he was doing, he appeared to want to play games with me, well, I had better things to do. Bye.

(I was pretty upset about this.)

He went on holiday and emailed me pretty soon after he got back. I ignored his email. He called me 3 days later, but it wasn't convenient for me to speak to him so I said I would return his call (busy in my world now). When I did, I got his voicemail, so I told him that I was having an emotional day with my family (had been to do probate on my G'fathers will with my very distraught mother), and that maybe we could talk sometime over the weekend.

I eventually spoke to him on Monday. THe conversation went: how are you? (x2) Hope you and your family are well (x2), hope you had a nice holiday, let's get off the phone before we get arguing, bye.

I realise by this point that I'm about to press the "eject button" again. The "again" being the important thing here because I recognise that I feel exactly the same way I felt when I went round "the Cycle" the first time, I can't abide callousness, and its so obvious he just doesn't care how he affects me.

So we get emailing, and I attempt to explain to him the cycle:

> Well maybe we hit on one pointless argument avoidance technique: make a connection between you and a shower and instead of arguing we can observe little brain short circuiting to a non-upsetting picture...

OK, why, on some levels, at some times, does everything other than the banal inquiry induce you to initiate conflict?

For example we managed to talk quite directly and without conflict for a good while before it descended into acrimony, and then we managed it (again) when we met up in March, but now I'm frightened to talk to you (again) because regardless of how I am towards you, you display
aggression towards me, and (again) it appears to be escalating.

I am getting to the point (again) that I will do anything not to feel intimidated ... in other words its driving me away (again).

There does seem to be a pattern to it.

Its like you are different people(?)

What elicits your aggression? >

he wrote back that he only understood about 30% of what I said "and that he was only aggressive when he wasn't on his meds" (which was him being facetious ~ its all a big game to him)

So I said I would draw him a picture... but I pressed him again on why he was always mad at me. And this is what he replied:

>i don't agree that i am mad you all the time
i called you when igot back to apologize for what must have come across as rude when we spoke right before i left (end of august). it wasnt my intention to be rude, but there are things that i rather not discuss with you. c'est ca.>

Now the point here is that, he didn't apologise to me... and if you look further it isn't an apology, its a justification. A justification that he compartmentalises me, and plays games with me, it doesn't even address that what I was really upset about was him winding me up mercilessly (Passive Aggression) or the fact that he's gaslighting, and hypnotising me (only a P would try to throw a serious discussion like this by conjering me into thinking about him and showers). He'd left me anxious that he was so mad at me that he won't even tell me where he's going on vacation for a whole 2 weeks or more, and now, apparantly he's not been mad he's been feeling misunderstood all this time, because he thinks he's been percieved to have been rude (when he was actually rude & contrived) and not for one second did he think well Kate is probably upset, and I can't enjoy my holiday if she's upset.

Because that would be a good reason to apologise, but HE DOESN'T HAVE A CONSCIENCE, so that doesn't even occur to him.

So I was about to tear him off a strip, but a very kind friend of mine who was IMing me at the time told me not to respond to the negative behaviour only the positive behaviour.

So I replied to P that he hadn't apologised to me (because he hadn't!), so he'd best get dialing.

After I sent the email, I realised I was back partaking in his game again... overwhelmed with anxiety, waiting for him to apologise to me for something which I knew he had no intention of apologising to me for, because its not "C'est ca." Its "C'est nobody compartmentalises me in their lives like that and I'm not going to get used to being compartmentalised to the point I'm just an object in his game, a toy to be picked up and played with when it suits him and discarded and treated worse than dirt the rest of the time. If he decides to treat me differently, then he should call me, if he doesn't then I don't need to deal with him."

So I called him, "Saying, I thought I'd save you apologising..."

He burst out in anxious, awkward laughter, so I asked him why he was laughing, he said he would tell me later (I thought but there isn't going to be an after). And then I told him...

And that's were it was left.

He knew I was about to take the high road, hence he attempted an apology (and couldn't even manage that). Its only the second time he's apologised to me, about anything. The other time being when he said he was sorry for treating me so poorly that I left him (the last time).

And you know... I felt so much better last night... he even slipped out of my consciousness on occasions, and I slept like a baby.

Now the only mistake I haven't made is inviting him into my world... and I think on that count we need to regard Ps like Vampires, if you invite them in you are rendered powerless. That's what I'm going to concentrate on from here on in. Not inviting creatures of the night into my world.

Rick if your feeling low, you need to invest some time in your world (Quality self-adminsiterd T.L.C. time), whatever takes your fancy. Forget that P, its time to move on.

K.T.

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#2255 - 09/18/03 03:21 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


KT

I'm so glad you've made the break. It really is the only way - to stand back from it and get your head clear, and start normal living again. Otherwise the mind games just never, ever stop and you sink deeper and deeper into confusion.

Here's to KT's new world - may it be a great one and utterly P-free!

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#2256 - 09/18/03 08:14 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


KT,

Yes, that is exactly how P's behave. Once we are on to their games it is difficult to have a level-headed, reasonable, converstaion.... not to mention mutually caring, concerned, introspective (ha! that's a good one!). I think that is why so many of us spiral in the first place. We now have the key to the mystery and we re-live, re-think, re-experience the various situations and drama's over and over again. "How could I have not seen what was right in front of my eyes."

Your post was a wonderful example of just how, even if you are aware, one cannot have a meaningful interaction with a P . It is also a wonderful example of just how one can get sucked into their game. So thank you for taking the time to write it all down.

Yes, I appreciate your advice. It is something that I have heard from several people recently..... it is important that I take time for myself. Funny, during the very last conversation that I had with my P (last February) he said to me in his rage over my having blown his cover..."when are you just going to forget about me and get on with it?!"

Rick

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#2257 - 09/23/03 09:36 AM School bullies
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everybody,

I am suffering PTSD again but sort of a different kind. Not directly caused by a P. Some of the kids at school are devaluing my child. I hurt so bad for her. She is such a sweet, quiet, loving, sensitive little girl and doesn't deserve it. It reminds me of what I just lived through regarding P. at the office. No contact has done great things for me. I don't know how my child can have no contact with these little bullies. Some people will say they are just kids they will work it out. But I know so much what the bullying of a P. did to me and I don't want my child to live through that. I don't want anybody to eat away at her spirit the way the P. did mine. I want to take her out of school hug her and protect her from the world.

She told me "mom they hurt my feelings so bad". I totally identify with her and hurt so much for her.

Anybody experience their child going through this? She seems to have done okay the first few weeks and liked school and now a bully and a few acomplices have targeted her. Maybe I am exagerating after everything that happened to me and maybe it will blow over. Maybe the teacher will get involved maybe things will change. I know one thing is for sure I wont deny that this can happen. I so understand it now and know the damage that can be done. One thing I am very grateful for is that she was able to share her feelings with me.


finished, check in once in awhile. I want to know how you are doing. And hopefull, I miss seeing you here. I am so glad to see so many new people here. It is great we all find support for what we have gone through.
Thanks for listening!

betterway

























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#2258 - 09/24/03 06:28 PM Re: School bullies
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Betterway,

My heart really reached for you when reading your post regarding your daughter. I know how devestating that feels when someone hurts our precious children. When you described her I could really envision her personality. I think it hurts worse when it is a kind, sensitive child like yours. Sweet baby.

You know Betterway, maybe this would be a good time to teach your sweet girl about these kind of people. Of course it would need to be age specific but N's and P's are developed on the playground I'm sure. I remember back when I was a small child and some of the kids who were SOOOO mean and I was scared. I didn't have a mom like you Betterway who could reach out and empathize but oh how it would have helped if I did. This could be a perfect opportunity to teach that sweet girl that she is valuable and precious and never has to accept that kind of abuse. You sound like a kind, compassionate mother Betterway. I feel sure you will begin to think of ways to help her understand there will always be these kind of people and you will stand behind her to be sure NO ONE abuses her. Even if it means you have to go to the school and talk to some teachers, principals, counselors etc. Maybe just maybe that is why this is happening. . .so her mama can help her learn the basic skills to protect herself. Maybe if we would have known about these kind of people we wouldn't have been P magnets and targets Betterway. :-)

Just a thought.

It is almost a year now since I had that "episode" with p#2. I have had some moments if you know what I mean. I've been unusually tense and stressed out and because of the time of year it even "feels" like it did last year and the anual events reminds me even more. Like . . .last year it was a week before it happened. . .crazy thinking. . .and it has also triggered the PSTD in me as well. But I know there is an end. I'll get through this. I'm much stronger now.

I have missed posting on the forum. I have been so exhausted lately with the PTSD that I haven't had the energy to post.

I will be praying for you and your sweet girl Betterway. That you will be given just the right guidance, courage and wisdom to know just exactly how to help her learn so she can protect herself.

Thanks for checking on me. . .I really appreciate it.

Love
finished


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#2259 - 06/17/04 07:48 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i can not figure out how to start a new thread so thought i would post here.
question is: 2 years ago i was introduced to a man. i am divorced with two children, now 15 and 17. this man claimed to be english, (i am english)he said he worked for a boroadcast company. that he was bureau chief and foriegn correspondent. he is on the boards of several organisations. according to him his parents lived in england but had bought a house in usa to be near grandchildren. they also bought one in fla for the winter. he said he had only been in the usa for 8 years.

well, we got on really well. he had no money as he was paying child support and alimony - so he said. he claimed to have gone to school at one of england's finest boy's boarding schools. he does have a very posh english accent. also wherever he goes he's greeted with great respect. he teaches a class at a well known university. he's invited to embassies, we have travelled a lot always going first class, the best hotels, restaurants, all for free. i never thought for one moment that he was a con man or p. he moved in with me and my children after telling me his office wanted to return him to london. but he wanted to stay here to be with me. well ........ after living together i discovered all the lies! he's not english, he's american. he's not christian but jewish. he's unemployed except for his one class he teaches. his so called broadcast company is fictious. all in all he lies cheats cons everyone to get what he wants from trips to meals etc. he's never offered to buy as much as a pint of milk. at first he was supportive of my son's but now he'd be happy for me to send them away. he barely talks to my younger son. his parents are american and have always lived here.

whenever i ask him for answers he tells me a different answer each time. i contacted his ex wife because i needed some idea of the truth. she was very nice and talked with me and was concerned for my safety. she said he culitvated his english accent over years. he did life in england for 4 years when he went to university to take a phd. he is highly educated.

he's obviously a pathological liar and has identity rejection. he claims he will turn over a new leaf when he has a job. he is applying for several jobs in england because he feels that that's his home. he doesn't seem to understand that lying has consequences. he's under the impression that he can just change his story and no one will mind he lied to them. he steals. will take things because he wants them. never worries about how the bills are paid.

it has been very hard for me. i am in shock. he can be so tender, affectionate, caring. he doesn't hear when i tell him this is over. he becomes withdrawn, cold isolating. makes
me feel i am the bad one. i try to be nice only to find i'm drawn back into a "relationship"with him. there is emotional infidelity.

he has a summer job in england and is leaving in 2 weeks. i have told him i'm not joining him and i don't want him back. he doesn't hear. he has become attentive, affec etc. the list is long in all that he does that seems anti-social. he said he will change for me. but how can i trust him? he's done nothing to prove this. i asked him to give up his broadcast company. he said he will in sept i have found out that he's opened a new domain name to use while in england this summer. he claims to be a war correspondend and that he goes to iraq. he has never been to iraq. he has dragged me into his delusions. i have gone willingly i guess.

i have decided to wait till he's left and clear his things out into storage. what else can i do if he won't listen? he has no money and nowhere to stay so he needs me.
sorry this is so long but i have no one to talk with as all my friends think he's charming and i'm so lucky!
please help! so, so many lies!
thank you
star

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#2260 - 06/18/04 01:46 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi Star

welcome. Your story is all so familiar - the more you try to reason the more you get lied to and this will NEVER change. I would only say one thing - remember the no contact rule, its the only way to preserve your sanity because you know you can never trust what is being said and you can't go on trying to pick up the pieces. Hope you don't mind me being so blunt. Please let us know how you get on.

Good luck

Recovery




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#2261 - 06/18/04 06:18 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: recovery]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you recovery for responding. i am trying very hard to separate my emotions from this man. the pain is awful. i do feel confident that once he's out of my radar the clouds will lift. it is so difficult to come to terms with being duped like this and when he's 'nice' i question whether what i've found out about him is true! i've a long way to go to heal i just hope i can do it if not for mysake then that of my children.

again thank you and all the best.

star

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#2262 - 06/18/04 07:11 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Star

Glad you found the forum. We were all 'duped' as you were - and feel pretty stupid about it, so you're not alone! Its really hard for friends who've never dealt with a P to understand the issues, so use this forum anytime you feel like sounding off! We do understand what you're going through.

I think you're wise to just wait till he goes away then put his stuff in storage; it's often best to take the line of least resistance, or use any other tactic you need to get out! You will heal; it just takes time, and knowing what you were dealing with helps a lot.

All the best

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#2263 - 06/18/04 08:02 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


star wrote:
"he has no money and nowhere to stay so he needs me."

This is what stood out to me. P's target caring, nurturing people. The sad truth is, he doesn't need *you.* The man is a parasite, and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word. He will find someone else, if he doesn't already have someone waiting in the wings. You are going to go through a lot of pain as this relationship ends, but do not waste your energy worrying about him. Take care of yourself.

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#2264 - 06/18/04 08:05 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you ali for replying. i was concerned being at the end of a thread no one would see my post! am so grateful that you did. it is hard because i feel i'm in love with him and find it difficult to let go. am hoping when he leaves i'll see the trees! he's expecting me to join him in england. i have given up trying to talk with him. he's saying that i'm making a big mistake by not joining him. of course i find myself wondering if he's right. when things are good with us they are wonderful! but, i do realize that it's only wonderful if things are going his way. as long as i keep coming up for air i'll make the break.

thanks for being here!

star

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#2265 - 06/18/04 08:10 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you km56. i am realizing this. and it is very painful. i keep fighting within myself about who he really is. he was married for 25 years and i ask myself how could that be? he must be ok? there is no question he's out of here come two weeks. i have put myself into therapy and am hopefull that i will be able to let him go.

i am so happy i found this forum it was quite by accident.
thank you
star

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#2266 - 06/18/04 10:24 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2788
Loc: United States
Hi Star, welcone to the forum. Most things happen when we are ready. If you get a chance, please check out this "thread".

Psychopath Resources

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#2267 - 06/25/04 09:20 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: Dianne E.]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is there something wrong with me? Am I the only one who, despite everything, misses him? I must be some kind of sick masochist.

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#2268 - 06/26/04 07:55 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi KM56

I think missing him is perfectly normal. I get around it by telling myself that the P I loved was no more real than a TV character. Great character, brilliant acting - but doesn't exist in real life. And the real P bore no more resemblance to the character I loved than the average actor bears to the part he plays for the audience.

So long as you are not tempted to go back, you'll be fine.

Regards

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#2269 - 06/26/04 08:07 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, Ali.

I know that's true. And when I'm feeling good, I don't miss him at all. But I'm a moody sort, and when I'm down, I think about him. I'll try to think about it in the terms you've put it.

I know I can't go back. Thank you for telling me I'm not alone.

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#2270 - 06/26/04 09:29 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


We all feel like but remember that it wasn't a real person - it was a reflection of what we wanted in devil's clothing.

We all deserve so much better than that - don't forget that.

Do you really want that lying cheat back? Do you want to waste anymore or your precious time?

best wishes Mark

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#2271 - 06/27/04 05:08 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


He left a message online; not specifically for me, but I'm sure he knew I'd see it:

"It wasnt the end that was cause for concern, He had been through worse, It was the wait, The long agonising wait for something, anything to end the drawn out monotony of existance in a world of whispers and dark thoughts"

At first this disturbed me, my hands were actually shaking. Then I reread it and realized what it meant: he's bored.

But I'm *not* "something, anything." I'm not a thing at all. I'm a human being. I wonder if he ever knew that, or cared.

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#2272 - 06/27/04 05:14 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just realized: you might wonder why he's talking about himself in the third person, if indeed, that's what he's doing, who knows. He did that sometimes. Claimed an alter. I talked about that in another post.

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#2273 - 06/28/04 01:54 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi KM56

But the words tie in with the P profile - they need the buzz of finding a new victim - of stringing everyone along etc, the normality of life is poison to them. So take heart - it is proof that you are better out of it and getting on with a real, caring life.

bye

REcovery

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#2274 - 06/28/04 09:49 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Two [Re: recovery]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Recovery:

You're right. It's funny, even now it didn't occur to me that those words might be bait for someone other than me. But they're there for others to see. And yes, "the normality of life is poison to them." So true.

"So take heart - it is proof that you are better out of it and getting on with a real, caring life."
Thanks, Recovery. It's hard to stop caring about this person, even though I tell other ppl here to not waste their time on the P's in their life. I know the truth, hard to apply it to myself. But I am trying. And having you guys here *really* helps.

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#2275 - 06/29/04 02:53 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Two
recovery Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 204
Hi KM56

I hope these little notes do help - I know I got a lot of help from the 'oldtimers' when I first started to post here.

I hope some of them are still reading if not posting but maybe it is a good sign that they have recovered and moved on. I hope that, at least, they too are P free.

you can be too - and I think you will love being P free!

byee

Recovery

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