The Study of Evil and Depravity

An Interview with Michael Welner, M.D.

by Megan Sullaway, Ph.D.

MS: Do you think psychology/psychiatry has a role in attempting to define and study "evil," or is the concept of "evil" best left to the theologians?

MW: I think psychiatry/psychology MUST be involved in establishing a framework - to play a major, though not exclusive role. The behavioral sciences define diagnoses and treatments, based on standardizing research, and it is this approach to behavioral and emotional difficulties that absolutely lends itself to standardizing the understanding of behavior in the legal context.

Scientific methodology is not part of the court's approach. However, court trends toward disciplining the quality of science in the court demonstrate how courts well appreciate the scientific approach to providing clarity.

I don't think the definition of depravity is exclusively the domain of the behavioral sciences. In fact, in my clinical practice, I embrace theological influences, because moral grounding and a clear standard for everyone is itself therapeutic. If psychiatrists and psychologists work in concert with internists, or with judges, why should theologists be off limits? And as far as the definition of depravity, no one is exactly fighting turf battles, here. Evil has existed since the beginning of time, why is the first systematic effort to define it coming in 2002?

Science is about precision, be it physical or biological. Theology is about the solution, rather than the definition. Theologists are more uncomfortable in defining evil, in part because that designates some individuals for punishment. This discomfort is understandable - and discomfort precludes one from involvement in the process. You wouldn't want a surgeon operating on you who faints at the sight of blood.

Theology's greatest contribution to this discussion, in my judgment, is oriented around issues of redemption. Specifically, "what do we do about this individual, who has done something depraved?" Then, theology can work ably with clinical appraisals of who the person is, and what can be done therapeutically. I also respect the influence of sociology on the development of this scale, and that disciplines impact will be felt in validation studies.

Furthermore, because the Depravity Scale and its definition of evil is fact and evidence based, pathology and criminalistics will also have a pivotal influence in the development of these standards.

MS: What characteristics of personality and/or behavior cause you to describe a person or an act as "evil"?

MW: I think an evil act reflects intent, actions, and attitudes about what one has done.

Surely what we appreciate as antisocial, pathologically narcissistic, sadistic, psychopathic, or necrophilic personality qualities can drive a criminal objective, and may manifest themselves in the criminal acts, if carried to fruition. Those same qualities may be evidenced in one's response to his crime as well.

Evil and Depravity

How “Evil” Is Evil?

Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D.


Evil and the Radical Lack of Empathy

Many years ago it occurred to me that evil was most simply defined —psychologically — as any behavior reflecting a complete absence of empathy. What characterized all so-called “evil acts” was that they betrayed an utter lack of regard for human suffering. It really didn’t matter whether the deed was done for religious, political, or economic reasons—or, for that matter, solely out of revenge. Finally, it was irrelevant what the “ideals” of the individual or group were.

With neither respect nor concern for the feelings of others, those who commit evil acts have no qualms about the hurt, humiliation, devastation or despair caused by their vicious deeds. Similar to Timothy McVeigh’s alluding to the deaths of innocent children in his heinous bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City as “collateral damage”, people who act maliciously are unable to care about the human misery they leave in their wake. Regardless of their rationalizations, however “idealistic” they may be, their mind—or rather their heart—is horrifyingly insensitive to the emotional toll of their driven behavior.

Evil continues

What is The Depravity Scale?

Courts across America are using terms like 'heinous', 'atrocious' and 'cruel' when weighing penalties for a variety of crimes. However, the interpretations of these terms and resulting punishment, vary from state to state.

The Forensic Panel seeks to provide a standardized scale for the justice system to determine with scientific certainty which aspects of a crime represent depravity. The scale addresses not who is depraved, but rather, whether a specific crime reflects depraved intent, actions and/or attitudes. Therefore, The Depravity Scale is race and socio-economic blind, and promotes fact-finding in resolving questions of depravity.

How It Works:

Professionals in all areas, especially law and mental health, as well as the general public are being asked to participate in this project. In this phase, demographic and background information is collected to ensure balanced representation of differing viewpoints. Twenty-six items describing potential features of depraved intent, behavior and/or attitudes are then presented for judgment. We ask you to assess which of these items are especially, somewhat, or not depraved.

This survey takes approximately 15 minutes to complete; all responses are kept confidential and no personal information is ever released.

Thank you for participating in this important research.

Depravity Scale

Nan
(member)
03/20/05 06:54 AM

Hi all,

The well known forensic examiner Michael Welner. MD, who lives in New York, has long been trying to establish a legal criteria for evil. Together with members of the medical, legal and social service profession, he has developed a depravity scale.

This Depravity Scale in now available on the Internet. I think it is important to contribute to this research, so I have just completed the questionaire.

It will take you approximately 15 minuttes. You will be asked for your real name and your email address and a few other personals in order to assess your educational level as well as to verify that you did indeed take part in this survey. They will send you an email when you have completed the survey.

This is the Internet site for the survey:

Depravity Scale Survey

Nan

Dianne E.
(Administrator)
03/20/05 02:56 PM

Thanks, Nan. I see Dr. Welner quite often on CourtTV and find him to be very interesting and intelligent. This is a great step forward.

Di


Nan
(member)
03/20/05 03:04 PM

Hi Dianne,

Thanks. In fact, I did not know the first thing about Dr. Welner until I opened the newspaper this morning and saw a two page article about him and the work he is doing with the depravity scale.

I knew immediately that he is on to something and considering what we are trying to do here, it seems important to support such research.

Nan

Are people evil? Or can they just not tell the difference? Or maybe they are just too lazy and/or stupid to think it through

The Millgram Experiment
60% of people will do just about anything if ordered to by an external authority which they have submitted to.

but..

" One implication of Sherman's experiment is that if people reflect on a moral issue before they are involved in it, they are more likely to behave in accordance with their consciences when that issue faces them in real life. Moral reflection and discussion of the kind found in the best types of moral education substantially enhance the ethical quality of a person's future choices."

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v1n2/conscience.html