**Note, pictures are not encouraged. I have no way to verify the photo etc.

a sucker reborn

I am so foolish. I tried the courts and social services and they all told me they could not help unless there was recent physical violence. So unless i am willing to compromise my integrity and my relationship with God. I am helpless. I weighed the pros and cons and tried to stand my ground but he put it on the line and said he would take them, he has before and has all the money and power of his new "victim" at this point she deserves it because i spilled my guts and told her everything (5 hours on the phone) and she is still in the game.
He succeeded is manipulating me to "try" again but i told him I did not trust him, I did not believe him and that he was a lying decetful manipulative person who had no regard for anything other than his desiresI even told him he was a "P"! He actually listened and considered the possibility. ( another manipulation?) so he agreed to counseling ( only because he needed to offer me a crumb) the proceeded to tell me that he spent all our money and that he wanted to get money off of "her" and was staying until tomorrow. I told him he was going to "F" her and he admitted it ! A hint of honesty? He said it didnt matter so should not bother me. I told him to imagine the feelings eveoked when he thinks of me with another man. (he is very jealous) and tonight when he is with her, consider i could be doing the same thing. I told him it was wrong and immoral and made me sick and he needed to get his priorities straight. He said coming back broke would only make things worse. I said him staying made it worse. He told me he made his decision. So i have no choice unless I lower to his level and lie through my teeth to get what I want or need and I am not willing to do that. I told him no counseling would help anyway because he would lie and i do not trust him AT ALL so he is a fool to think that he could have a happy marriage with me. He begged to differ (been there done that many times)He said he would be here in 2 days . i told him there would be no sex between us for awhile so he had better have a real good time with her cause it would be the last he would be getting in a while. so thats it . i am sucked back into the vortex of evil oblivion. yet stangely, hope springs eternal. I have many people praying for us and I believe in God and the power of prayer. The psychiatric treatment outlook for P's is bleak however i haqve read that with long term therapy, they can control their impulses to an extent.
this chick gets $10,000.00 a month and her paycheck as an RN so he has unlimited resources at his disposal but insists he wants to try to change. I am so tired. 8 more years till my last child is out of the house. then i will be free. half of me is hoping and the other half is dreading. At least I know what to look for and how it works. the things i read about psychopaths are almost exact regarding him! I have my own issues as well, i may be a borderline or codependent or something. i am sleep deprived and lost 10 pounds in 2 days on the "my husband is a psychopath" diet! so at least something good came out of this. I do speak freely to him now and dont pretty it up, no more eggshells i hope . here is a picture of my "p"

justagirl
(member)
01/20/04 03:21 AM

what to do
i have come to acrossroads. he will be coming soon. should i trust him?(NOT!) so i have to get a restraining order before he does, but then again maybe he wont do that. but all he does is lie. i am desperate. he will lie to get it but if i make the move then the horrible mess begins. i can't take it God i want to run and hide. i cant do 8 more years of this hell. please God help me.

Post Extras:

justagirl
(member)
01/20/04 04:01 AM
Re: what to do

i am going to the court with my two youngest i have kept them from school. i am going to try to just get custody w/o the restraining order because of the risk of flight but i have no documentation to support it other than childrens word. It's unheard of but it works in the movies (joke) i dont think i will even get to put my foot in the door but i am going to do it on a wing and a prayer. time to put on my game face wish me luck

Ali
(member)
01/20/04 08:15 AM
Re: what to do

Hi JustaGirl

You are moving forward, even if only slowly! The more you take action and responsibility for making your life better, the more confidence it will give you. Is he violent? Has he been violent with the children? You don't mention what you are afraid of. Is there anywhere that you can get help and support? Friends? Relations? Local abused women's support groups?

You mention that you are afraid of a lot of things, including being a single Mum. Believe me, if you have been able to cope with a P and survive, you are equal to all of those things. It just takes time to find your feet.

You are in my prayers.

Ali

justagirl
(member)
01/20/04 01:41 PM

Re: what to do

please see my new post entitled a Sucker reborn again

Part one of my story.

I met my p when I was in a difficult relationship which seemed to be going nowhere and I was feeling lonely and bored. He was like a breath of fresh air after the men I had been meeting because most of all he seemed to really respect me. He did not make any sexual advance at all for a start which was a first for me. I was also very impressed by his intelligence and charm but I knew very soon that there was a dark side to him and inexplicable mysteries like why he was still living with his parents at 26 even though he did not want to live with them and the black moods and resentment of his mother who seemed perfectly fine to me. I soon found that he had the victim roll very deeply as part of his personality. And I was a sucker for a sob story.

It was a whirlwind romance and within a short time we were engaged to be married. I did not realise that a quick decision to propose would probably eventually mean a quick exit from the relationship. He was romantic and only seemed to want to sit holding my hand and gaze into my eyes. He was never away from my door and even called on his way to work in the mornings. Of course I was flattered and swept off my feet. He seemed perfect and was so eager to please me and do absolutely anything for me. I did notice early on that there seemed to be something lacking in him, like a sense of himself. There was some kind of emptiness and I felt that my own personality was being taken on by him. Some sort of ‘mirroring’ was taking place. And there was a kind of emotional flatness. There were also strange periods of silence, when I felt confused at the cause but unable to discuss it with him. I think they were caused because he was only responding to me and if I was not saying much then he would go quiet and the silence would develop, with me feeling unable to break it through my uncertainty and lack of confidence. It was a strange thing and had never occurred with anyone else.

I was given the charm treatment in full but had inexplicable urges to get away from him at times, that only surfaced when we were out together, usually when I had been drinking. There were also times when he seemed distant and I would wonder if he really felt the way he said he felt. It was all a bit confusing. There was a vague feeling of him acting a part rather than just being himself and he would take all the cues from me.

The thing that attracted me most I think, was his seeming need of me. I had felt that my last two relationships did not really need me and so I was very vulnerable in this area. I think it was because I did not have a very strong sense of having as much right as anyone else to be alive. If someone needed me then it justified my existence. This dysfunction in myself led me to be abused in relationships as I would only care about the needs of others and neglect my own and be blind to abuse.

My friends and family did not seem happy about him and I resented it that did not like him and so withdrew from them. They all said that I changed a lot after meeting the p but he said he wanted to be a father to my children and gave them a lot of attention (they had been badly neglected by their father so they lapped it up) so I ignored my doubts and we married quickly. There was something that bothered me but I could not put my finger on it. I said to my mother at the time that he was too good to be true. He is indeed and if only I had taken heed of my intuition.

He was very troubled about his relationship with his mother who he accused of controlling him and interfering yet he had made no attempt to get his own place. I thought this a bit strange for a 26 year old but he said he could not afford it as he was on a low wage and hated his job. It is strange that after the marriage, his parents called all of the time and I got really fed up with it and asked p to stop them coming so much yet he would not say anything to them. He learned quite quickly that I have memory problems and the best way to get his own way was to agree with me but then do nothing and I would forget. But he claimed and still does that his mother severely emotionally damaged him. But he was quite happy for her to call nearly every day. I can’t work out why he liked her coming. Maybe so that I would be more reluctant to leave the relationship if I got attached to his parents (which happened) as my own family were out of the picture somewhat and had never been supportive anyway.


Anyway, we were married within a few months. He had been in a group of young people who met for social outings and to raise money for charity and who would eventually become members of the local Freemasons Lodge. My sister in law told me that he was a social climber and indeed I discovered that this was his aim. He knew that he would receive privilege from knowing the right people and was quite happy to mix with this sort just to get what he wanted out of life. He was always very envious of what others had careers and houses etc but never was willing to work hard for those things. I did not like those types of people and thought them superficial and false. I asked him to give up going to the meetings and felt justified as he had effectively ended all of my own friendships. He agreed but I think that there was resentment later.

Soon after we were married I was shocked to discover that he did not have a clue about money and showed the first signs of irresponsibility and quite oblivious to the concept of economising, even though he had changed his job, which was a good one (after much drifting) training as an architectural draftsman, just before we were married, but ended up with no work after an attempt at self employment selling kitchens. He told me that he would earn a lot of money from selling the kitchens.

A few days after we married we went out to buy food and he had no money (I did not know at the time that he was deeply in debt) But he knew that I had sent back my benefit book the previous week after I told the DSS I was getting married. I then found out that he was in debt, to the tune of about 20 thousand pounds by today’s value. He only told me because the creditors were threatening court action as he had not been making his payments and there was no money to do so. I was shocked that he had let me marry him without revealing this to me especially since I had had a very hard time being married to a compulsive gambler before him.

There were many, many rows about it as I asked him why he did not tell me. He said that he did not tell me as he was scared he would lose me, which sounds very lame now as if he was sure that I loved him, then the obvious course of action would be to put off the wedding till he had paid it or until he was in a stable better paid job especially when there were two children involved.

The thing which bothered me though was that although he did say sorry, I felt that it was not very convincing and he would not accept me saying that I had lost my respect and trust of him. He said that I should respect him no matter what. After the first revelation, whenever it was discussed he became defensive about it saying ‘I have said sorry what more do you want?’ He should have worked hard at restoring my trust and should have reformed his irresponsibility towards money, but he refused to accept this responsibility.

Looking back now I see that not telling me about his debt was a huge act of disrespect for me and total disregard towards my feelings. He has done nothing in 22 years to put this right, well not until recently when he said that he wanted out of the marriage. He then said he was very, very sorry for what he had done over this debt, and for the first time I accepted his apology, but too late. It felt like a very cruel act to wait until the marriage was over before he put this one issue right which had caused great pain and many arguments. It really felt as though it was premeditated to hurt me as much as possible. It certainly did not feel like it was his conscience bothering him.

I noticed some other strange things about him soon after the marriage. He used up all the toilet tissue, like over half a roll at a time. And when he went in the bath, a whole bar of soap would disappear. And when he put spread or jam on bread he really lathered it on. I suppose I noticed these things because I had had such a tough time managing as a single unemployed parent and his actions seemed like gross extravagance to me.

Looking back I can see that he was never in the least interested in my feelings. If I expressed any he would start to analyse them and if he could not find a reason for them according to him then he would deny them. But at the same time there was the act of a devoted husband and father. One thing I remember is that I was conscious of feeling I had entered a sense of feeling in a state of unreality. I knew pretty soon that I had made a mistake and thought that I should give it six months at least to see if it would improve. 22 years later I was still waiting. That sense of unreality and mental fog is now clearing, as I am getting him out of my life at last.

Hi,

This is my first post here.

I work with a P. It is very clear to me now. At first I thought it was simple bullying but it's beyond that. The worst is that my boss didn't take my first report seriously and still seems unaware of the true destruction this one man is doing, to us and them (the boss).

When I first met the P I had that "hair standing on end" feeling. He was charming and quickly became the social organizer. In particular the P became good buddies with a few select people, including every secretary. At the same time he was kissing the bosses butt big time; talks, buying them lunch, doing them favors, etc.

When the boss was out of the area for long all hell broke loose. I called it the "wheel of misfortune". Things suddenly didn't work as before, stuff was missing, certain people were ridiculed but it was dismissed as "sarcastic wit", some people were challenged physically while others were made social outcasts by the P's inner circle. It was never like this before. I kept hearing the song "they smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place .... the backstabbers ...."

Soon I became a target for the P. I had to do some very technical work for him. I might add that it's two techniques I'd done for 8 and 12 years prior. The P questioned everything I did, it's quality and validity. He got his inner circle to believe that I was giving everyone "garbage" and I wasn't to be trusted. He accused me of mixing samples up and making stupid mistakes. Finally one day he confronted me and yelled an obsenity and punch a refrigerator behind me. After that physical threat I spoke to my REAL boss and described what happened. Of course, they expressed surprize that such a "nice guy" could do such a thing. I felt victimized again.

My boss spoke to the P. Later that day the P came storming through the workplace and said loud enough for me to hear "you ain't seen nothing yet!" Well, soon after that I found a piece of my equipment burning with an electrical fire. Before our group moved to a new location I was in a bad car accident on the way to work. The person who hit me had a last name one letter off from the P (coincidence or was I again a target and this was a message to shut up).

The P was climbing the work ladder, off to many other targets then and strange things kept happening. In his 8 years with us a friend got fired and accused of running a prostitution business out of our workplace, a long time Secretary left in anger after she was told by the P she wouldn't be offered a job when we moved, a woman who became best friends with him broke the relationship and then committed suicide, the bosses house got broken into, people have been threatened, I had my bag stolen and much more.

Recently I became aware of one more situation of harrassment. A guy who works for him has been ridiculed, told he disgusts the P, told he is worthless, etc. The guy went to HR to report what was happening. Ever since I have been hyper vigilant for retaliation against me since I have been friends with this new target. If the P thinks I know anything or told the target to go to HR I know I'll be in trouble. Guilt by association. I have learned to anticipate the worst.

I park my car near security cameras, leave the building through a different door, carry mace and have alerted the local Police on occassion.

My boss is very laidback and trusting, the perfect person to take advantage of when a P is around. I have worked for them for nearly 21 years but can't take much more of this. The P has aim at destroying our workplace. Our boss told me "I've done the best to isolate him." It's not enough. As long as I still have to do work for the P he has control.

In a recent work presentation the P said he believes "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." I saw this as a HUGE threat to all of us. Again, I remind you that one co-worker and former friend of the P committed suicide. I guess she just wasn't strong enough in the P's mind, was she.

I shake with fear and anger nearly every day. I'm anger that this one P could do this to everyone and fear leaving and suffering more retaliation.

Hi Starflower

This man sounds horribly dangerous - whatever you decide to do, please be careful! Is it possible for you to change jobs? I know this is a pretty drastic action, and in some ways an admission of defeat, but its really hard to win against this type of person.

Other than that, the only thing I could suggest is that you use some of the information about P's from this site to try to raise awareness amongst your work colleagues of what is actually going on, so that you can present a united front against this man. But be careful - if you openly denounce him as a P, he is likely to make you look like a hysterical fool.

I've recently read some stuff about a relationship with a P being very similar to being involved in a cult - the same type of manipulation and mind games. It sounds almost like you have a cult on a minor scale there - the 'I am Mr P and I am marvellous' cult, with his inner circle as the brainwashed cult members.

www.rickross.com has loads of info about cults and cult-like relationships; also how to break away from them. May be worth looking at.

Take care

**edited to make link clickable,Di

Hi Starflower, welcome to the forum. It sounds like a horrible situation you are in. My guess is that if you move you would lose your retirement and other benefits?

Di

Thankfully I am vested in my retirement plan and can take that. As for benefits there really aren't any so no problem there. On my own I have built up a good chunk of funds and that will help. What really scares me about leaving is retaliation since the P is dependent on me for his work. If I go I shut him down and I know he has ways to punish people. I'm in a very vulnerable situation. My boss seems to think I have the upper hand but that's not true with a P. This weekend I've been thinking of backing up all data I have ever given the P and to secure samples that I still have. If the P has to take me down it will be big time. If he gets mad enough at me for any reason he could claim that I am responsible for his downfall by wasting his funding, "falsifying" data, misplacing key information, not getting samples to him in time therefore causing him to lose funding, etc. Stalling his career or hitting his money supply is what threatens him and causes him to lash out. Our P is already on watch of sorts to, that I have been made aware of. Besides the new target that went to HR another of his workers reported him to the Umbudsman of the University for harassing her and threatening behavior. Of all things this employee is now trying to buddy up with the P. The abused become the abuser sometimes as a means to survive I suppose. The P is away until the end of the month and it appears that he has assigned her to find a way to "take care" of or fire the target by getting him to make a big mistake. All this week the target was given questionable tasks. If somone else fires the target the P is off the hook and the crap doesn't hit him in the face. Someone else always takes the fall for him.

Hi Starflower,

For what it's worth and on the off chance that you know someone who can read Danish or Swedish, I can tell you that a book about psychopathic bosses has just been published. I have checked, and the book has not been translated into English.

Title: Psykopatiske Chefer.
Author: Lars-Oluf Tunbraa
Publisher: Birmar

Other than that, you best chance for information is writing " Psychopathic Bosses" in Google or whatever Search engine you use. There's quite a bit of information.

Kind regards,

Nan

Hi Starflower, theses are from the Resource section here at the forum.

Corporate Psychopaths

Execs should be screened to weed out psychopaths: researcher

Aug. 29, 2002

Provided by: Canadian Press

Written by: MICHAEL MACDONALD

ST. JOHN'S, Nfld. (CP) - At the conclusion of a sobering presentation littered with photos of Mafia hit men and sex offenders, Canadian researcher Robert Hare turns his attention to a little-known subset of psychopaths: the corporate kind.

Hare, a world-renowned expert on psychopaths, then makes the provocative suggestion that some of the recent, blue-chip accounting scandals could have been prevented if all chief executives were screened for psychopathic behaviours.

Please see below for some traits shared by psychopaths

"Why wouldn't we want to screen for them?" he said Wednesday after a speech to 150 members of the Canadian Police Association. "We screen . . . police, teachers. Why not people who are going to handle hundreds of billions of dollars?"

The problem is that corporate head hunters rely on resumes and standard face-to-face interviews, which reveal little about a candidate's psychological profile.

"The average psychopath has no trouble moving through that process," said Hare, who teaches at the University of British Columbia. "That's not even a hurdle."

Hare estimates that about one per cent of the population - that's about 300,000 people in Canada - are clinical psychopaths.

That's why he's working on something called the B-Scan, a rough checklist to help recruiters quickly spot psychopathic character traits among potential employees.

**source link no longer available


Snakes in suits and how to spot them

By Giles Whittell
Timesonline.co.uk

Cold-blooded, remorseless egomaniacs in the boardroom are a hidden threat to your job, your savings and your investments. But our correspondent says the good news is that a new psychological test can flush them out

HERE ARE SOME facts: Andrew Fastow, formerly of Enron, stands accused by an American court of taking $30 million (£20 million) in kickbacks from the company while its shareholders lost more than $70 billion. Bernie Ebbers, formerly of WorldCom, is said to have arranged for his telecommunications firm to lend him $408 million as it slid towards bankruptcy. John Rigas, founder of the Adelphia cable TV giant, built himself a $13 million private golf course and, it is claimed, “borrowed” more than $3 billion from company accounts for his family while his shareholders saw $60 billion wiped from their investments. And here is a perfectly sober conclusion: if guilty, they are all psychopaths. Not killers. Not rapists. Not necessarily even criminals. Just cold-blooded, remorseless, egomaniacal psychopaths.

It’s a tricky word. Being a psychopath is not something that ordinary people aspire to, but neither does it have to involve face-eating cannibalism (Hannibal Lecter probably wasn’t a psychopath at all). The central qualification is to show no conscience; to fail to empathise.

Link to article no longer available


Corporate Psychopaths: article to follow

Corporate Psychopaths