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#2342 - 04/18/05 06:52 AM Re: My story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
crazy7
(member)
01/25/05 01:09 PM

Hello All,

First I would like to thank you for having this forum, and thanks to all those who participate. Without it - the understanding that there "actually are" other people out there who have "suffered" through situations with these types of people - would not have been possible for me.

I read about and research things that interest me - and when I discovered some of the other "information" available on the net - it really pointed me towards believing we were dealing with a P - but without this forum - it would not have been so crystal clear - and believable. Thank you all! whew!

So - my story - is...long...tiring..."crazy"...sad...etc. It all started almost five years ago. I met a man, we got along great, we had a little run in with his ex, but I thought - no big deal - we moved in together - then things with the ex really started to roll...unravel...etc. She fits the P profile to a "T" - very quick comebacks, sarcastic, belittling, reckless with her and her childrens lives, yet educated.

I guess I'm "lucky" because I've only had to deal with her at a distance. I'll tell you though - if I knew now, what I knew then, I'm not sure I would've gotten involved with this man. He's a great guy - but all the "baggage" - it gets to be waaaay too much. He's been wonderful about protecting me and his son from her - as much as possible. I always followed his advice about "don't talk to her" - and still do. Yes/no kinda things is about as far as I'll go with her, and that's only been recently, but even that I avoid if possible.

I think we were together about two years before he managed to get his child into our custody. In the meantime it was "total" chaos. She was using the child to get him worked up. Withholding the child, not putting the child in school, neglecting the child - moving every six months (or less), different men all the time, abusive men, inmates, doing drugs, stealing, lying, un equipped child care, these were just the things we "knew" about. She filled his childs mind with terrible lies about me, about the childs father, about countless countless things! It's so sick and sooo sad.

Visits were fun/psychotic at the same time. The poor child was so mixed up about "life". I don't think the child is P - but I certainly think the child would've been P if left with her.

You see the ex got pregnant - by a P (I believe) - tried getting rid of the guy - but he's still hanging on, and, fighting for custody. It's sick - who's the lesser evil...I don't know. The child is wonderful - poor little thing. I cared for that child in my home for a very extended period of time - after receiving a phone call from her stating, "it was either us or a stranger". Well, we have the (half) sibling living with us - and so - we agreed. Later only to find out that the "placement of the child with a stranger" was a hoax - and that while I was caring for, both of her children now, she was flying across the country fulfilling "dates" - even "squeezing" one in during a flights "stopover". All the while telling us she had a business trip, and telling people she knew what a sl**, and a who**, etc. I was, to which one replied - "You shouldn't talk that way about the woman taking care of your children" - she just brushed them off. She'd call and say she missed the kids etc., etc. etc.

We have no legal right to that child so when she was ready, that child went back with her. That child had three different fathers (legally on record). By the way - that child came back from a visit with her once - mimicking a snorting action. Blew my mind. I could go on and on and on and on, changing the childs name after a year or more - about how poorly she treated these kids - about the sick/mean/twisted things she would say about them - and TO them. And "believe me" - that's just a small sampling of what we dealt with....every-every day!

Sometimes we still do. With no regard for the impact. So many promises by her un-fulfilled...for the children! The one unspoken promise - to be a mother...un-fulfilled. I am stepping in, I can help, but I can never "fix" the damage that she has done and continues to do. I try to be a soft place to land - but that's hard to do sometimes - especially when you're being told by this child - let me sum it up - every mean thing in the book. Being hated on the one hand - and looked to on the other. It's hard to balance - and keep sane and loving.

Originally we didn't think there was a chance of ever getting "custody" of his child. It didn't seem that she would let go of that "control" mechanism. My man is a very smart man. He's a very loyal, dedicated spouse. He has had some very serious medical issues - such as PTSS - as a backlash from...."everything". Anyway - he'd dealt with her long enough to have some ideas (not that it always works) about how to "deal" with her. He knew when to play what card - and managed to get custody. whew!

That's part of the reason I'm here - is to TRY to get a grasp on HOW anyone could be this cruel - especially to kids. And not seem to care! WTF! I get so angry. Yes - I'm lucky - I've always wanted a "family" - and wasn't able to conceive. I have a wonderful man, and his child (becoming ours) we have a pretty stable life as of late. But that just puts me on edge - because, when will it start up again, and how??? It has lulled before and then raised it's ugly head with as much or more fury than before. There's no escaping it - this child knows her as "mom".

We've been to a counselor and now a psychologist trying to clean up the mess she's created with his child. Life has almost - no, not almost - life with her influence HAS broken us several times....countless times - including the children - but we keep working on moving forward - and for now it seems to be working....it's like a fortune cookie I received said - "slow and steady wins the race" - I don't know if it's actually true - but I'm trying it and it's working for us...most days.

One thing I want to pass on is - in talking with the psychologist, they told us that you should not bad talk the other parent...and here's why...the child sees themselves as that parent (in a way) and when you say negative things - the child takes that on themselves. Even something as simple as being "truthful", not truthful, etc. It's been sooooo hard - but I've never - ever - said anything negative about this childs mother (not in hearing range anyway). I've even gone as far as clean up a lot of mental messes she's made with the kids - make them feel ok about things, with things, feel loved, cared for, the kids seem very mentally mature for their age - after dealing with all that in their lives. S

It's been the most unbelievably hardest thing I've ever done - or could've imagined living or "staying" through.

All my friends and family have heard everything - they haven't always been supportive of me staying - and I can't say that I blame them - but I feel I have something to give, and something to gain and learn in this situation. I feel it was meant to be - us as a family - and I intend to make that happen.

We've gone through the comparing notes with others bit - especially with kids involved - it's important to "try" to know what the truth is - but it seems to me that no one really has the truth - so why bother - other than to justify in your head that the P is lying...hello...that should be a given. But it's hard - we have a natural want/need/desire to "find out the truth", to get to the bottom of it, to have the "truth" - but I don't think we'll ever truly find it. In our situation it's mostly "damage" control for the child. The other "stuff" - well it's hard to not get sucked into the vortex of drama - but I try.

I've got to tell you - after reading the posts on this site I feel so much more at ease in dealing with her - because for me the mystery is solved. Now I know what's going on and why. My man said to me "I've been telling you that all along" - ok - but until you hear other true stories it's just too hard to believe. So thank you - thank you so very much for putting my mind at ease.
I've often felt that .... Maybe I was the crazy one!? ;-)


Dianne E.
(Administrator)
02/09/05 05:54 PM

Hi crazy7, welcome to the forum. I am really glad you found some answers to your questions. I always think of knowledge as being power.

It sounds like you are a with a wonderful man and it is tragic that his X is in the picture, I guess it is "lucky" that she is at a distance. It must be very trying to be a step mom under normal circumstances.

You sure don't sound like the "crazy one" to me. You are a brave woman to help your husband work through all of this chaos. It is not often we hear about women P's so your story is very interesting to me. If you can think of anything you might share in how you came to the conclusion she might be a P it would be very interesting.

I wish you the best and congratulations for standing up for the children.

Di

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#2343 - 04/18/05 07:15 AM Re: My story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
TooManyP\'s
(member)
12/16/04 07:44 AM

Hello to you all.This forum is a godsend,and I feel blessed to have found you all!I have been coming here and reading for quite some time and finally got the guts to join up and tell a little of my story,as embarassing as it is.It is embarassing for me,because as my user name says"Too many P's",I have been involved with not one P but at least 3 P's since I was a teenager.I believe they are all P's,however they are all quite different with different things they would do,but the bottom line is that they ALL only cared about themselves and felt nothing for anyone else.I am happy to say that now at 39 I have been married to a wonderful man that I have been with for 11 years,but the memory of the abuse and games of the P's still haunt me.I am hoping that by coming here and recounting my stories will not only help me in some way,but also those of you that read here too.I have done much therapy, research, ect., but I still find myself having bouts of mistrust, doubts,ect.,and I believe I may be suffering from post tramatic stress still.My husband has truly been my angel and has tolerated alot of my insecurities and fears through it all.(He also knew my last ex-P,very well)I find it very hard to trust anybody.This,unfortunatley keeps me wanting to isolate myself from meeting new people.It is as though I cannot trust myself anymore as to my opinion about people and that I now am very analytical when observing others,and have perhaps become a bit judgemental.

I wish that I could heal from this,but even now so many years later I have not,compleatley and probably never will.I am sure that it doesnt help that two of my ex-P's have re-entered my life in the past year,even though I have had no contact with either for quite awhile now,again,due to the games re-started by them both.Before I begin writing my very long stories of the P's I was involved with,I want to tell the administrator of the forum that I tried to post this under "my story",but there was no icon for new posts there..only one to respond to anothers post..is this something to do with "cookies"?I am pretty computer illiterate,so please forgive me for posting my story here..
my first encounter with a P was when I was 15.He was 18.Basically,I didn't know better than to stay away from him,even though my parents did not like him and did not approve.I was rebellious and stupid,and thought he was exciting.(yeah..really exciting to be abused..sarcasm)I also felt sorry for him.He had a terrible family background,having a mother who was a drug addict/drunk,a biological father that died before he was born,and a step dad that was vacant.He had been placed in several foster homes as a child where he told me he was beaten,molested and treated worse than a dog.He had several problems with the law as a teeneager,stealing motorcycles and being a theif,drug abuse,ect.He spent time in boys camps and juvinile detention.The first six months we were together everything seemed fine.I can't even fathom that I gave my virginity to this creep.It makes me sick.

Anyway,in the beginning,it was lies.He would make dates with me to go out and then not call or show up at all.I found out through friends that he would be at a party locked in the bathroom for along time with some girl.When he did call me back days later,he would act as though nothing happened,we never had a date,and when I would question him he would get really angry.If it was over the phone,I would get verbally attacked and if in person I would get beaten.After this happened several times and I have proof that he was cheating on me and lying about it,I decided to see how he would like it if I went to a party without him.Yes,I was very stupid,for I was playing a very dangerous game,but at the time I didn't understand the nor did I even know what a P was,or what they were capable of.He ended up showing up at this party and caysing a big scene.He threatened to kill himself,layed himself on me dead weight while I was sitting on theh couch and got into a fist fight with the host and got his butt kicked.

Still,later I took him back.He again got into trouble with the law for stealing a motorcycle and attempted to repaint it and change tha plates,but he was caught.This time,He did 6 months in the county jail for adults.He called me crying,saying that he was scared.I wrote to him daily and visited him several times,even though I had no drivers license or car.He wrote me a couple of times sickningly sweet letters that were so phony sounding.At the time,I ate it up.When he was to be released,his mother and I went to collect him.On his first night home his mother allowed me to stay the night,but not in her house,so he pitched a tent in his backyard and we stayed there.He called me every foul name in the book and gave me a beating,accusing me of being unfaithful while he was in jail.His mother had to have heard this,and did nothing at all.She didn't even come out to look.

I stayed with this monster for 3 years while he did many terrible things.(And,he KNEW I had no where else to go and noone else either)It is a long story as to why I did put up with all of this,but It is very hard for me to get into right now so I will briefly sum it up this way.A month after him and I began dating,I turned 16.I stupidly gave him my viginity at that point.2 weeks later he broke up with me saying that having a girlfriend was taking him away from spending time with "the boys"and that he now decided he wanted to be free.I did not protest at all,but I did feel betrayed and sad.Two weeks later I was invited by friends to go to a halloween party that I ended up getting raped at by 3 grown men.(I ended up putting them all in prison)In my despair,I called him and told him about it and he then got back together with me.I did not tell my parents about the rape as I had a feeling they would treat me differently,and although circumstances happened in which they did find out about it a week later,I found out I was right to think that,because I WAS treated as though I was now tainted and the pain of having my family turn on me was too much to bare and I left home on my own accord at age 16.So,for the 3 years I was with this P,we lived in tents,trailers,rented a room,and at friends homes and occassionally I would go back home for short stays.Some of the things he did are as follows,starting from the beginning of the relationship till the end:

One time when I thought I might be pregnant he responded by saying that it wasn't his,and that he would take me to court with 5 of his friends to say that they all slept with me.

once while having a fight with him in front of the courthouse,he put lit ciggarettes out in my scalp and started punching me in the face and head.A passer by rescued me and got me into his car while having to threaten the P so he could take me to the hospital.
Abeating so bad that he broke my nose,teeth and jaw,and I was chooking on my own blood while spitting out teeth.I had a concussion as well.He enlisted his best friend whose house we were staying at in a trailer on his property,and they carried me into the house,locked me into a bedroom,boarded up the windows from the outside and kept me a prisoner for 3 weeks until I helaed enough so as not to get the P into trouble.The entire 3 weeks I didn't see the P,but his friend would come in and feed me liquids through a straw,and change my "bucket"which was my toilet.During these 3 weeks,I could see out of my window from a crack,to see our trailer,and the P was having some other girl there the whole time.They were laughing and I heard the sounds of sex coming from the trailer every night.

One time while back at my parents home(which is where I went after being released from his friends room)it was the middle of the night and very hot,so I had the bedroom window open.The P came over out of the blue jumped through the window,sat on top of me and started to strangle me,while saying he loved me.When he heard noise coming from my parents room,he jumped back out of the window.

once while visiting a friends house,I was reading a book and he came over and asked what I was reading.I told him and then said I had a headache.I asked the friend if there was somewhere I could lie down and shut my eyes as I was having a migraine.He told me I could lie down in his mothers room,since she was out of town.I did,and not too much longer came the P.He came in closed the door and got down on top of me sitting on my chest and began to strangle me.I couldn't breathe and felt i was going to pass out.I somehow managed to get him off of me and I ran to the mothers bathroom.He pushed the door open and began to punch me in the face.I snapped out and hit the glass shower door on accident and the friend ran in and asked what was going on.The P immeadiatley appeared to be in shock at my actions,looking innocent and saying he didn't know what F was wrong with me.I was hysterical,needless to say,and told the friend to look at my neck which had scratches and was red and swollen and which also had bruises that appeared to be finger marks around it.He asked us to leave saying he was going to be in big trouble when his mother came back.I felt terrible.As we left,the P decided to beat me as we walked down the street,and knocked me to the ground where he proceeded to kick me in the head with steal toe boots.This all took place in the middle of the night and noone was around,but luckily i saw a motorcycle coming down the road and got up and pleaded for him to stop.He did and told me to get on the back.I did,and unbelievablely the P actually tried to get on behind me!!The guy on the bike whipped out a knife and told the P to back off now!And then he drove me to the hospital.

The P had a habit of disappearing for days sometimes weeks at a time and would never give any explination for it and if questioned would give a beating.He was known to cheat often and brag about it.He caught herpes and blamed it on me,although I never had them and never cheated either.

I also believe the P was bi-sexual,closeted,and really hated women compleatley.He used to tell me of a man he used to visit as a boy that would give him candy and junk foos and they would build airplane models together and he would let the man "do things"tohim.All of the other kids stopped going to this mans house when they found out what he wanted but not this P.I think he liked it.I was told by some of the kids in his neighborhood that him and his freind(the one that let us stay in the trailer)were caught years ago in a sexual act in his garage.I had chosen not to believe this,but then other things happened.First,whenever I would try to discuss this with the P as a friend in a non threatening way,he would become hostile and I would get another beating.I believe I had even caught him a few times and the result was always another beating..here are a few times:

Once he left me lying in the middle of an apartment complex in a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night by myself because his "freind"took off without us and he was angry because "he lost his friend".(I believe he was in love with his "friend".)

Another time when we had been renting a room,in which I was paying for everything by working two part time jobs at age 17,because he could never hold a job,I was ent home from work ill.When i arrived home,I went upstairs to hang my coat and found the bedroom a mess.The bed was undone and looked as if it had been used.On my side of the bed on the floor was a pair of mens underwear.Funny,but my P never wore any or even owned any.On his side of the bed under the bed was my jar of vaseline with the lid off that I used to take off my waterproof eye makeup,and stuck to it was several pubic hairs belonging to what appeared to be two different people.As I went back down stairs with a very sick feeling inside,the P was coming up the stairs and looked quite shocked to see me.He said,"what are you doing here?"I told him I was sent home sick from work.I asked him what happened in the bedroom,and of course,a beating commenced.He threw me into a coat hook on the wall which punctured me,ripped my clothing off and threw me and my purse out into the street,just while the church across the street was letting out.Everything in my purse emptied into the street and I was naked lying in the middle of the street.A neighbor ran out with a blanket and covered me up bringing me to their home.I called the police,but by the time they came,he had already gone and stayed gone for weeks.

still another time,we were visiting at another friends apartment,when another tenent showed up that was a friend of theirs.During our stay,it was very obvious to me that the P and this guy were giving each other the eye,and the sexual vibes in the air between them was so thick you could cut it.The P obviously thought that noone else could see this.There was alot on inuindo and flirting going on between them that the P must have thought I was too stupid to detect.Outside the apartment later,I questioned him about it,and he again proceeded to beat me in front of everyone.(you would think I would have learned by now)I screamed for anyone to call the police,which someone did,but again,the P left before they arrived.By the next week,the P was bragging to me and anyone else he could brag to how his new "friend'gave him a weight lifting bench and free weights and a computer desk(even though he didn't own a computer)and some other junk.I believe he must have given the P these things for some sexual favors.I could go on and on with the twisted things this P did,the lies,the games,the abuse and the obvious non caring of anything he did to hurt me.In the end at eighteen years ols,I rented my own apartment and had a decent full time job.He was supposed to have been living with me,but the day I moved in,he was not there to help me move in my things and set up the apartment.He came about two weeks later to give me a beating,busting my lip and bruising me up again.I started going out on my own and met someone else,and when he caleed to say he was coming over,I told him that i was through with him and that someone else was living with me now.He cried and couldn't belive it and begged for me back.i just said no.Then,one day when my new boyfreind was at work and I had two girlfriends over,I went to take a shower because we were all going out shopping and to lunch.The P knocked on the door and they answered it.He bursted in,came into the bathroom and had a big sword with him.He threatened to kill me and then himself.I screamed for my freinds to call the police and he ran out and pulled the phone out of the wall and then my other friend ran for the door.He beat her to it and pushed her down.In the meantime,I wrapped my self in a towel and in the livingroom in front of my friends he spit on me,slapped my face and told me he loved me and how could I do this to him.I told him to look at himself..does someone that love another slap adn spit on them in the same breathe?He just didn't get it.My neighbors had heard the comotion and began knocking on the door and said they were going to break in the front window,and that the police were on the way.The P got scared and went into the bedroom, destroyed soem of my things and stole some other things(just to hurt me)and escaped out the bedroom window.I didn't run into him again until 3 years later.He was as nice as pie to me.He bragged to me about his new girlfriend and how she came from a rich family and that her father owned many clubs and bars and that they were all going to be willed to her because she is an only child.He showed me a picture of her and told me she was"butt ugly"and laughed and said she was fat.He said she was almost ten years older than him,had a beak nose and short curly black hair and looked pitiful.I couldn't believe he was saying these things to me.I read somewhere else on this forum how a P will be with anything no matter what they look like as long as they are getting a place to live and things paid for them..makes alot of sense!He told me he would like to sleep with me again(not in those words,but very disgustingly)and that he had access to her bank card and could withdraw money as he liked and we could get a motel room right now.Of course,I declined.I went away wondering how many times he had already done this to her.Some years later I saw him at a liquar store and he braggingly wanted to show me the semi truck out in the parking lot that he was now driving for a living.I feared that that was a great way for him to be a serial killer if he was so inclined.And I fear that he is very capable of that.

He told me he was still with the same woman too.About a year later i ran into his mother at the local mall and she told me that his girlfriend was now his wife and that they were expecting a baby.I feel very sorry for her and that baby who by now is a child..The P once told me that he used to make his little sister perform oral sex on him when he took a bath.He actually got a perverted kick out of this like he was proud of himself...I hope he has not harmed his child.

well,I think this is all I can handle writing for now.I still get so very angry when I go over this stuff.

All these years later I still hate the P.This one especially. I believe he would have killed me one day.Anyway,these are just some of the experiences I have had with this P.I have been with two other P's that I have had relationships with after this one,and I will write about them here soon.The last one I was with,I had his son,who is now eleven.This is very hard,and emotionally draining,but because of the disbelief factor that so many peopel have when you tll them about the PI hav not reached out to anyone regarding what has happened to me in a very long time.I feel after reading here,that this is a safe place where others understand and know and relate,and I hope to make some friends that understand the scars left by the P,and hopefully help others that have been hurt too.Anyway,theres more on the way from me,and thanks for listening...

TooManyP's
(member)
12/16/04 08:22 AM

I'm sorry..although I just wrote a VERY long post,I wanted to come back and say a little more about this P,because I realized what I wrote most about was his abuse,and I am certain there are those that are abusive that are not P's as well.So,besides this P being abusive,he also was a cronic liar,only showed emotions for himself(like when he was scared or felt sorry for himself),hated woman and talked alot about his hatred for his mother,was a thief in in trouble with the law frequently,couldn't hold a job,disappeared for days and weeks at a time,was sercretive,didn't like to be questioned,got almost all of my friends to sleep with him behind my back(which I found out later),would automatically think I wanted to have sex when I tried to hold his hand,hug him or give himm a kiss,and then be repulsed and tell me that all I wanted was sex all the time and he would act as though I was disgusting and reject me.Oh and BTW,sex with him was horrible.There was no sweetness or passion.It was either violent with kissess so hard that his teeth would hit mine,and he would bite me and act like it was an accident,or it was as if he was not even there,somewhere far away,and just going through the motions.I'm sure there are many other red flags I could have seen then,but I was so young and did not know what a P was or what to look for.Interestingly,years later,his mother told me that many of his family members on her side of the family were institutionalized in mental hospitals.She did not say why or with what diagnosis,but it was obvious that whatever it is,is hereditary.I still have nightmares about this P,more than anyone else...Oh,I wish I could erase these memories...

recovery
(member)
12/17/04 03:35 AM

Hi there and welcome

I am still working thru your story - it is not easy for you to post it all. I too believe I have been involved with more than one P, the first one was about 25 years ago, the second I met 15 years later. The first was in and out in a few months and I had a luck escape. But it makes me wary of my own judgement - I would find it very hard to trust again. So you are really lucky to have found someone and I hope you will have a long and happy future. The ghosts will always return but you can work thru them.

Must dash but willl read all your post later.

good luck

REcovery

Nan
(member)
12/17/04 12:04 PM

Hi TMP,

Welcome to the forum. I am glad you found us.

I have a sneaky suspicion that having, finally, written down your thoughts and feelings about what happened to you so many years ago, has helped you in more ways than you realised before you started writing. I hope so!

I think holding on to such painful memories can be very debilitating and also stop us from enjoying life right this moment. In the back of our mind is this nagging feeling that somehow we do not deserve to be happy and content because what happened way back when was our fault and that we atone by never being happy – ever.

I believe the best thing to do is to be very clear that you are NOT at fault. What happened to you was NOT your fault.

You have the right to be happy and content with the wonderful man you met and married. You made a good choice and you have yourself to thank for that. You have learned some painful lessons, but you have also grown and prospered and today you are in a good place, in a good relationship with a wonderful man, who obviously mirrors how wonderful YOU are.

Take heart and know that not even the gods can change the past. When you are ready, let go of the past. Live in the present, in the now and be glad that you have survived against such incredible odds. You have yourself to thank for that. No one can take your strength and your power away, for you alone know what it has cost you to arrive at today.

Be glad that you have the power and the will to want a caring and loving relationship. Best of all, that you have created it because you knew that you could.

Be well,

Nan

Dianne E.
(Administrator)
12/18/04 08:27 PM

Hi TMP and welcome to the forum. I sure am glad that you have a great relationship now. I hope that by expressing your past it can really help you enjoy life without such lingering doubts and pain.

Best regards,

Di

TooManyP's
(member)
12/19/04 05:44 AM

Hi Recovery,.and thank you for the welcome!I have read alot of your posts here and your story is a hard one too.I really relate to you about not being able to trust your own judgement.It seems that almost everyone that has had an encounter with a P feels that way on some level.That is a sad thing to be left with that,I think.It makes everything in our lives so very different than it was before.Yes,I do believe I am very lucky to have a normal relationship with a wonderful man after all I have been through with all three P's.I believe that it was the circumstnces of our friendship that went on before we got involved in a relationship that allowed me to trust again on some level,as well as the fact that he had been friends with my last ex-P from childhood and confirmed that the P was that way since a child.He had warned me so much about him,and of course I didn't listen,but when the chips fell and the ex-P lsft me out of the clear blue for another women when our son was only 3 months old,it was the P's friend(who I am with now)that was there to help me pick up the pieces and stepped into my life as not only my mate but my sons daddy too.Unfortunatley,this P is still causing problems,which I will write about here soon,so somehow,the ghosts are still very close....I hope you all will have some advice for me when I finally do get to that part of my story..thanks..

TooManyP's
(member)
12/19/04 06:22 AM

Hello Nan!Yes,I am very glad to have found you all and this forum!I believe it did help me to write about my experience with this P.I also think you were right on about how debilitating painful memories can be.I think it has affected my health,both physically and mentally.I suffer from arthritis,heart problems and severe back problems in which I should get surgery for but am avoiding.Mentally,I have insomnia very bad at times and a very low threshold for anything that causes me anxiety,and I get frustrated very easily now.I also have a sort of agoraphobia(sp?)in that I can leave my house,but I mostly need to be prodded to because I prefer to stay here,and when i do leave,it is never alone.I do not even feel safe to leave with just me and my son,like to go to a park,without my husband or some other adult,like my mother,and I have not driven my car in over 2 years.We do however,live in a very busy city and there are alot of people that I am fearful of as well as alot of crime and I would rather stay inside my home.
I also think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about deserving,and blame.That I believe,is the underlying cause of why I tolerated so much for so long.You see,when my parents found out about me being raped,my mother literally blamed me for it,and for years.She didn't seem to forgive me until my son was about 5 years old.She remained emotionally unavailable and angry with me for disobeying her and going to that party against her will and therefor I got what I deserved and it was my fault in her eyes.

Basically noone in my family would even talk to me after that,or I was treated with anger from my mom,and that is why I left.Even when I had to go to trial a year later to put these men away for what they did(including line ups and interviews which led up to that)I had to do it alone with no support from my family.I DID internalise the blame and tried to injure myself in more ways than one back then. There did finally come a point in my life after much therapy and more horrible relationships that I knew I was not to blame and that I am a strong person and that I did not deserve to be treated this way by anyone. That I desrved love and basically began a process to learn to forgive and to love myself.This began after my relationship with the last P.It has been along journay,but with the consistant support of my husband and the love I have for him and my son,I have gotten much stronger.Also,things have repaired with my parents and they have admitted their errors as well and there has been forgiveness all the way around.That has been very healing.

I want to thank you for all of your encouraging and wonderfully positive words.And anytime I am feeling down about these things,I will come and read them again.Infact,I think i am going to print it out and use them as affirmations for myself!I DO believe that these things in my past were indeed lessons and I HAVE learned much from them in a positive way as well.Now,if I can just get these last two P's out of my life for good,I will be home free!!!I don't know why they keep trying to come back into my life,but I will write more of that later.I seem to only be able to handle a little at a time or else I start feeling overwhelmed.And,since these last two P's I was involved with are still affecting my life in some ways,(or at least trying to)I look forward to the advice you may have for me,so I will try my best to tell these stories as soon as I can.Again Nan..thank you!


TooManyP's
(member)
12/19/04 06:48 AM

Hi Dianne!Thank you for the welcome!Yes,expressing myself to those that understand and have been there really does help.And even though I now have a wonderful and healthy relationship now,and he is supportive and witnessed what I went through with the last P,he never really experienced being on the recieving end of being in a relationshhip with a diabolical person such as a P is.So,it really feels good to be able to have the suppost of those that have been there and for that I am very appreciative to have found all of you.Unfortunatley,it is hard for me to forget the past and get on with my life because the last two P's I was involved with are still trying to causr trouble for me and also because I have had much trouble with the son i had from my last P.If it is true about P's being hereditary than I have much to worry about,especailly with things that have transpired with my son.After I have had the energy and time to write about my last two P's,I think i will need to go to the P's in the family section and write more there as hard as that may be.So,you may be seeing me alot here on your site,for things that are happening now as well.Unfortunatley,the pain never seems to go away compleatley,and I fear me and my husband have a long road ahead of us where it concerns my son....That is why I say my husband is like my guardian angel.He has stuck by me through so much that he never really had to and he continues to no matter how hard things have gotten.He is truly my best friend. Until I am able to get to the very long story of my son,please anyone that prays or sends energy,please do so for my son.He needs it.We all do.I will just say for now that he has been seeing therapist since he was 4 and we noticed something wrong with his behavior at the age of two.He has been kicked out of every school, babysitters and day cares that he was ever in,and even kicked out of a special day treatment school for kids with behavior problems.He has been put on medications(that he now no longer takes)and has also had two month long visits to children mental facilities at the age of eight.He is much better now,and in my story I will tell you how he has gotten better,but there are still problems.He has been diagnosed with so many different things at different parts of his life,such as ADHD,unspecified aniety disorder, oppositional defiant disorder,unspecified mood disorder with rapid cycling(another way to say he may be bi-polar without having to label such a young child)and here is the scariest,pre-conduct disorder.Anyway,like I said,you will be hearing alot from me..not just my recounting of past relationships and now everything is fine because i have a great relationship.No,the P dilema is still in my life in some form or another and I need much support from you wonderful people.It looks as though the doughts and the pain may be here to stay and I need to find a way to live with it without it killing me.Again,thanks for listening and i will be back again to take it one step at a time writing it all out with the hopes that it all becomes clearer to me and makes some sense to all of you as well as to me.I tell you,it isn't easy...but I need to start somewhere..thanks again..

Nan
(member)
12/19/04 03:43 PM

Dear TMP,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

"Now,if I can just get these last two P's out of my life for good,I will be home free!!!"

Though I am well aware of what you mean, the good news is that these two people are NOT in your life. You are in their lives and there is a huge difference.

They want something from you. They may think that you are still the same 'sitting duck' and they are testing your resolve to see what they can get away with. If you give them so much as an inch, they will take it as confirmation that you are available in some way and they will keep up the harassment. You have the power to keep them out of your life by not paying them any attention whatsoever. If you see one of them on the street or anywhere, say 'Hello' with a nod and keep walking away. Do not engage in any conversation at all. Do not let them bait you into any kind of angry or frustrated action or statement. Look as if you are cool, calm and collected no matter how you really feel.

"I don't know why they keep trying to come back into my life,..."

Because they want something from you - anything. A reaction that tells them that you are vulnerable. If you are vulnerable they have power over you and they will use it if you let them. That is why the NO CONTACT RULE is the only way to get rid of these people. Do not initiate contact under any pretext whatsoever. It's a ruse to get you going. If one should call and with a teary and desperate voice tell you that he is going to kill himself unless you do XYZ, you simply say "good" and hang up the phone. A P will never kill himself, never! What he trying to do is engage you in his life and he will use ANY pretxt at all. Do not fall for it.

The thing is, he needs you to feed his ego and his sense of power, so he can manipulate you like he used to do. You do not need him, but he is so high on his own sense of power that he is sure that he can manipulate you in some way or another. The trick is to be super aware of how these people play the nasty games. Have you read Hare's book 'Without Conscience'? They have it at the library.

"...but I will write more of that later.I seem to only be able to handle a little at a time or else I start feeling overwhelmed."

Yes! That is very normal. I have tried several times to write a longer account of what happened to me, and I always end up having to cut it short because it so unpleasant to get into these thoughts again. You have to dig down into your unconscious to remember it all and it IS overwhelming.

Just take it a little at a time. There is no rush. The writing is something you must do for you, not for anyone else. You will know when you can handle writing and when your mind tells you to stop, that 'this is it', you simply listen to your mind and stop. Some days you just cannot face the idea of thinking about it, so leave it alone. As your mind is ready, you will find that you can deal with a little more and, one day soon, your mind will feel much clearer as you become aware that the fear you felt has lessened.

"And,since these last two P's I was involved with are still affecting my life in some ways,(or at least trying to)..."

You are clearly very aware of what they are doing. But trying to do something is not the same as doing it. I think...that what they are doing is attempting to make you fearful. They are playing on your fear - your fear of falling down into the BIG hole where you have been before.

So long as you are very clear that you are NOT getting into any holes, large or small, they cannot hurt you again. It is possible that your fear of what "could" happen is one of the possible reasons why you prefer to stay at home. So long as you are home, you very understandably feel safe.

However, real safety lies inside your mind. Consciously, you know that you are strong and that you will prevail. Perhaps your unconscious mind has not got the message yet? Be loving with yourself. Believe in your ability to conquer your fear. Allow your mind to go as far as it can and when you feel too overwhelmed, leave it alone. You have come this far because you are strong, so continue to trust in yourself and your ability to heal your mind.

"...I will try my best to tell these stories as soon as I can. "

There is no rush at all. As I said, the writing is for you, no one else. A few lines today, a paragraph tomorrow and maybe nothing for a week. Slowly you will be able to pour out the sadness, the anger and the pain about your past. And then it WILL be the past.

"Again Nan..thank you! "

Thank YOU <smile>. I will be away for the next three weeks, so please do not expect a reply until sometime after the New Year. May it be a Happy one for you.

Good thoughts,

Nan

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#2344 - 04/18/05 03:47 PM Re: My story [Re: Dianne E.]
jamie28 Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 30
crazy7-

as someone who was raised by a P (though under very different circumstances than you describe) can i just say that you have no idea how much you may be helping the child/children involved. sure, the kid(s) are messed up. they have been through emotional hell. but just being there for them is making more difference than you can ever know.
thank you for doing that for them.

jamie

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#2345 - 05/06/05 08:05 PM Re: My story [Re: jamie28]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
Just Diann
(member)
02/24/05 07:43 PM

I am married to both a psychopath and a narcissist that drinks. So I got all in one! The best thing that I have done for myself is get out of this marriage.That is why I am in the middle of a divorce. I had to move out of the house couldn't stand being around him knowing what kind of lier he really is. Living with him all these years was the most hardest times of my life. He has put me down to the floor and now I have to try get myself back up. Trying to find a way to deal with him and deal with why I let myself get into this mess. I have been with this man over eleven years. He told me that he has a new love and that he wonts me out of his life. I hate him but can't go around him. Becasue I know what he has up his sleeve with his new girlfriend. She is married herself with 2 children. One is 4 and the other is 12. My husband hasn't been around small children for over 13 years. I don't feel sad for her. She will find out soon enough. She can have the crapy life that I have had. It has been nice not to have someone tell you who you are and what kind of person you are. Thanks for listeing to me. I am in a support group and seeing a theripst. I have to find out about myself to live with this person. Write and please don't feel alone, Diann

Nan
(member)
02/25/05 10:17 AM

Hi JD.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your post.

I hope you have read some of the our many threads and posts, for then you know that many of us share your sad story in one way or another.

You will also know that it is possible to live a P free live, even though it can be very hard in the beginning as we try to figure out what has really happened.

You are right, it is a great feeling not to have someone tell you what to do, only to criticise every effort made if you try to follow the instructions, that often as not, are completely illogical.

You write that you cannot feel sad for the new woman your ex has found and that she can have the difficult life that you have had with him.

It is easy to understand your feelings of anger towards your ex, since it appears that it is HE who has decided to find someone else. Still, please consider that a little compassion for the next unsuspecting victim may be in order.

I am glad to hear that you have found a good support group and am seeing a therapist. You are doing the right thing and I hope that your healing will continue.

Many people here have found that it really helps to write things down. So keep writing.

We are here to listen and if you need it, support you.

Take care,

Nan

Nan
(member)
02/26/05 09:01 AM

Hi JD,

It is important to know that a post must be answered in the forum and NOT via the private mail messages that some people choose in order to be alerted when there is an answer to their post.

So, 'come on in, the water's great' <s>.

Nan

Just Diann
(member)
02/26/05 01:20 PM

Nan: Well I wonted to answer you about not feeling sorry for his knew girlfriend. Both of them set me up. She would call him on his cell phone at his lunch time. I found out one night when he asked me a question that only she knew. That is why I knew that she called him and he called her so they both were seeing each other after I left for work.The both didn't have to be in until eight but I had to be in work at 6:60am. When I asked he said that they were just friends. That is odd because I wasn't allowed to have friends but I could be friends with her. He said that he wonted to friends to. I am not that stupid. She will learn as I have that he is a lier and a cheat and he steals anything he can and not get caught. He also loves to spend other people money even his wifes. She will have to find out about this herself.When I asked him about her and him he said we are just friends.After that night she never called me and when I called her she wouldn't answer when I went over to her house next door she wouldn't answer. So that is why I don't feel sorry for her. She so wonted my husband she can have all of him and his controling ways. That is why. Diann

Dianne E.
(Administrator)
02/27/05 07:40 AM

Hi Just Diann, welcome to the forum. I admire your courage for getting out of this relationship which obviously would only cause your further harm. Did you have a hard time finding a therapist that could understand what you are up against?

You didn't mention if you have any children with this P?

It seems very typical that P's get their next victim lined up so that they have a new target to support them.

Did your husband ever work?

I would guess your X really used his charm to con his next victim. Even though she was a part of the break up, it is probably the best thing that could have happened for you. I feel sorry for her even though her bahaviour was bad, the power of a P can be so charming and who knows what he told her about your relationship. Beware if things or when things go wrong with their relationship, P's are likely to try to worm their way back into your life. I admire your courage and getting help.

Do you recall what some of your first clues were that your X was a Psychopath?

Di

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#2346 - 08/27/05 01:08 AM Re: My Story - Part Two
dragonfly Offline
member

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 9
I am new here. My last 2 husband and fiance were all psychopathic killers. How I attracted that I really do not know. First one was when I was 18 and married 4 yrs. Second one I was 25 and married 21 yrs. fiance 4 yrs.now on death row. 2nd X spend $400,000.00 of my inheritance for his business as I was bedridden with unusual illness.then cheated and lied for years,got abusive and I let him broke and sick..but glad I got away. First X is still world wide drug lord I hear. fiance,took 3 yrs. before bringing me into his world and family of Mofia. I am intelligent and even look hard 3 yrs. for clues after my first 2 marriages and saw none UNTIL he asked me to marry him and I said yes. I am interested in relating,sharing and learning all I can so not to attract these types again. Friends tell me I ought to write a book!
_________________________
God has put obvious limits on our intelligence but not on our stupidity.

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#2347 - 12/09/05 04:25 PM Re: My Story - Part Two
Ursula27 Offline
member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 2
I hope I did this right and that this message reaches everyone. I found this sight this evening and am hopeful and frightened at the same time. I am frightened of daring to hope...
I will refer to him as Edward. When I was 12 years old he asked a mutual friend to introduce us. I wasn't allowed to date. My friend gave him my number and he called my house and insisted on having long conversations. He insisted on telling me that every opinion I had ever held was absolutly wrong and unfounded. He had a forceful and aggressive personality. My mother asked me to tell him to stop callng. I did, but he continued to call me many times a day. I hid these from my mother by turning the ringer off the phone.

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#2348 - 12/09/05 05:26 PM Re: My Story - Part Two
Ursula27 Offline
member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 2
I hope I did this right and that this message reaches everyone. I found this sight this evening and am hopeful and frightened at the same time. I am frightened of daring to hope...
I will refer to him as Edward. When I was 12 years old he asked a mutual friend to introduce us. I wasn't allowed to date. My friend gave him my number and he called my house and insisted on having long conversations. He insisted on telling me that every opinion I had ever held was absolutly wrong and unfounded. He had a forceful and aggressive personality. My mother asked me to tell him to stop callng. I did, but he continued to call me many times a day. I hid these from my mother by turning the ringer off the phone. Sorry think I accidentally entered this wrong and may appear as two posts. Anyhow, when my mother picked up the phone (because it couldn't be turned off all the time) I talked to him. I didn't like him, but he seemed completely fixated on me and was determined that we have a relationship. I didn't want my parents to blame me as they were over-restrictive to begin with, so I hid his phone calls. He asked me to be his girlfriend. I obliged, but then he 'dumped' me 3 days later. He was always fighting other kids in school and never got along with authorities. He spoke confidently and used big words and thought he could schmooze teachers into believing he was well-meaning but few bought into it. My parents took me out of the area for a year and a half and I met him when I returned back to the same school. Now fourteen years old he seemed nicer, less prone to being mean and tempermental. He asked me out and I said yes, this time thinking he could actually be a real friend. His niceness was short lived. He would turn on me without warning and, even for a teenager, could slice and dice me with his words. He had a way of cuttting straight to the heart of a matter unlike anyone I've ever known in a way that is so cruel and mean. The point of his questions was always to point out that I was morally weak, etc., so that I would help him achieve whatever end he was looking for. He taught me how to kiss and how to engage in "petting". We talked for hours every day and were so close to each other there was hardly any room for me to breathe. Suddenly he broke up with me after 4 months. He claimed he had another girl. He then asked me back out. Never having experienced the depth of sadness and hurt I had just felt, I accepted. Five months later he did the same thing. He had another girl again, but this time did not ask me back out. He remained just as close with me as he had always done. We talked for hours, spent time together and shared everything with each other. For several years he had a different serious girlfriend each year. Each grew desperately in love with him despite his annoying traits, meanness, visciousness and sudden temper. He was like a drug that made one feel higher than the sky. I felt lifeless when we were apart. He made me feel things that I didn't think normal people could or should feel. A once very confident young girl, I would start to cry if he called me several hours after he said he would. I just wouldn't know what to do with myself and would feel so empty. Inwardly I nursed feelings that I was inadequate in ways that my parents and teachers were not detecting. I was jealous of his girlfriends, but maintained a huge distance, never speaking to them. The destructivness of Edward in my life reached its peak and I decided it was time to break free. While not his girlfriend, I dated other men. One by one these men dumped me because of intimidation directly from Edward. Edward told them to break up and would threaten them if they did not. So they did. I was lonely and still in love with him and hating the part of me that wanted him. I broke all ties with him, but I still lived at home. He called my mother's house endlessly, posing as the police, creditors employers or anyone else he thought would make me speak to him. He would call collect from God knows where. I refused to answer. I became involved with a young man that I was deeply interested in instead. I was eighteen years old. Edward would continue to pester my parents house even after I married and moved away. Six years passed and we had not spoken a word to one another... Edward knew why I refused to speak, I had told him so many times before. Each time he had worn me down with phone messages and letters sent to me through friends that I would give in. Not this time.
I was married to Brian and we had build a house. We had no children. Things were not going well for us. Brian turned out to be verbally abusive and cruel. I had been planning to get a divorce from him. This was painful, given that we were together since I stopped talking to Edward. I had had a long sickness with Gall Bladder disease which went undiagnosed for two years and was in pain most of the time. I felt isolated and like no one cared about me. One day while visiting my mother Edward called me. I wrote down his number, just out of curiosity. When I called him, now at age 24 he seemed so different... So mature, charming and flattering. He missed me and wanted to catch up, as two grown up friends would do. Quickly he said he could intuit that I was unhappily married and that I would be needing him. He started almost immediately to work on me that I come and move in with him. We could get married... I was still married. No, I said, this is not right. This isn't how this works. Brian needs to end this marriage, not you. He continued to try to get me to 'marry him' for about two and half months until his phone calls stopped. 2 weeks later he announced that he was married. he had just found the right one two months earlier and they had to marry quickly because of how in love they were. Feeling that my environment had the potential for abuse, I was shattered. How could he leave me there like that. Was he courting both of us at the same time? He still sounded so mature and grown up and he actually managed to explain his actions in a way that it made sense for me to still be his friend. We spoke on and off for the next year and a half. Now very sick with an infected gall bladder i was put in the hospital. When I came out it would be a short wait until my surgery. I was terrified at the prospect of my first operation. I called him to say hello. What began innocently enough on my part soon turned serious. my 1 phone call led to him calling me every night wanting to talk. I told him these conversations had to stop. Brian had cleaned up his act to an acceptable degree and I felt, as strange as it seemed, like I was falling in love with him. He said he knew, the same was happening to him as well. He said he was in a pickle now, because he wasn't being fair to me or to his wife. What a heady feeling! He filled me up with his 'you're the woman I'm mean to to be with' nonsense. I was firm nevertheless. Shortly thereafter he announced that his wife had an affair. He was almost in tears and very upset and needed a friend. The conversations continued. I told him I would never leave Brian for him. Brian had to end the marriage on his own. I would not leave for Edward. Edward continued undaunted about the affair and how his heart was broken and divorce was a certainty. She had recently had a baby. After my surgery he asked that we see one another. When we did, I couldn't believe that he was trying to come on to me in a physical way. I declined. HIs phone calls stopped and I could not believe how depressed I became. Anything to have him please call me again. He called and said his cell phone had had problems. Could we see each other again. Of course. This time he tried again and I was less resistant. It was so hard because of the marital problems and the fact that we had been intimate when we were young. He overcame every objection I had. I'm not blaming him, but it was something I didn't want to do, yet somehow he set up the entire situation. We began to see more and more of each other. He would set things up to where we would not have sex with each other, but he always acted like he wanted to, but just didn't have time or whatever. Soon he asked me for $300. It was the first time he had ever asked me for money. He would have the money in a week so I used the money we saved to pay our house taxes. I never lent this much money to another human being in my life before. He kissed me and complimented me and said how much he wanted to 'you know', but didn't have time. It was alright, we were lifelong friends. Next week he's talking about a certain type of drug and how he wants to purchase it for $300. I demaned my money. He said he had it, but his ATM card wasn't working. I went home in anger. Then we met again and he took me to a nightclub that I desperately did not want to be at. I asked him to take me home. He said sure, he'd be back in a minute. Scared to be lost without him, I went to where the car was parked to see it was gone. Long story short, he had left the club. He never came back that night. I got a taxi to take me home and I barely had any money on me. He came up with a story about his needing to go somewhere close real quick and being pulled over for DUI and getting arrested. he intented to come back, but now could he have $500 for bail. I said sure, but had no intention of doing this. I said Western Union was closed. Next day he was 'out' and said his sister bailed him out. All lies, he never went to jail, and I was pretty sure he went off with young girl that night, but couldn't be sure. We saw each other again and he started to want to do strange sexual things with me, he ended by saying that I should do everything he ever told me to do because he knew what was best for me at all times. My husband found out about the contact with Edward and became frighteningly angry. In a split second decision,I moved all my things out of our house while he was at work. Brian was devastated. He begged for a chance. Everytime I talked to Edward I could hear his wife in the background asking him mundane things. They didn't sound unhappy. It seemed as if he was lying to me. Everyday he told me they were finished. In roughly six weeks I went from a monogomous married woman to a single woman who was desperate for the attention of a married man. What had happened? I was living on the streets and went to a homeless shelter to stay. My house was up for sale, my parents and family devastated, not to mention church and friends. Edward was a secret, because he kept himself carefully hidden and would not be seen with me in public unless they were places he specifically chose. 1 week after I moved my things out, I took my cash savings and had been searching for a lawyer. That evening Edward invited me over so he could 'console' me. Instead he intimidated me to drink alcochol, made fun of me. I went to the bathroom and when I came back my savings were gone. He claimed I was drunk and was raving. My life had never been so aimless and low. He laughed to his two friends about a friend he had ripped off similarly who then had asked him to help him find the money. They laughed hysterically. The most painful part of the story ends here. This has been a little over a year ago. I have enjoyed various promotions at my job and have had a reconcilliation with Brian. A marriage ten times better than the first one had been enjoyed by us and we have a new house. Relationships have improved with family, although some think me to be like the one I was involved with. It is difficult to blame someone in this society. We are taught to accept blame, but I swear to God this was not my fault. I never intended to have an 'affair' and I thank God I never had sex with him, because I only realized later how many other women he was fooling around with while he was married. He had three children by 3 women by age 25 and did not care 2 cents for any of them. He used them to garnish sympathy from me and others. He used them to show what a caring father he was, etc., Does this sound like a psychopath or just a cruel foul-tempered person? He continues to call people whose numbers he had, I will never speak to him again. My life is normal again and his, who knows... Even so the pain lingers on. He almost ruined my life. My family is caring but they truly do not understand the hurt and the suffering when it seems that someone knows and cares about you deeply and then destroys you. I feel that he is the person I have loved most in life, even though I know love never entered into it. It was pure maniupulation. How long does this take to get over? He has twisted my mind in so many ways and I have nightmares of him coming to me and dragging me off with him. PLease any imput is appreciated more than you will ever realize. Ursula

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#2349 - 12/10/05 05:32 AM Re: My Story - Part Two [Re: Ursula27]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi Ursula,

Welcome - I’m glad you found the board. I’m sorry that you went through such a terrible time with this individual. You asked if he sounds like a psychopath. We tend to stay away from trying to diagnose people here but really the main consideration is that he seems to have been a very negative force in your life.

By your own words (and recognition), you have described his behaviour as lying, cheating, thieving just for starters. Your best bet is to have absolutely no contact with him at all. It seems as if in the past, he has repeatedly drawn you back into his world and it always seems to have ended up with you feeling terrible (with good reason it seems).

I encourage you to read Tiasa’s “I was "IN LUV?" with a Psychopath/con-artist!” thread on this board. It sounds like there are parallels between your experiences. Here’s the link below:

http://www.psychopath-research.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=PSYCHOP_MAIN_FORUM&Number=6395&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

You’ve been through a very difficult experience but you also had the strength to take yourself out of it. That’s says a lot about your character and resilience. As far as blame, people with these destructive but charming personalities fool the best of us. That’s what they do and they’re very good at it. Try not to beat yourself up over it. It’s difficult to say how long it will take to get over it because we all have different personalities but time really is a sound healer.

If it seems like your thoughts often go back to this experience and upset you in the process, try to distract yourself when that happens, whether it’s with music or reading or anything else that you enjoy and may find soothing.

Take care of yourself,

Sylvie

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#2350 - 12/14/05 11:42 AM Re: My story [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
shattered4good
(member)
07/16/05 07:22 AM

Hi I am new - My Story

Hi, I am new here - though some of you may know me from other boards. I am just gonna jump in here because after reading many of your posts & responses I feel o.k. about sharing this.

The abuser in my life has many other victims and is destroying lives. He has two small kids and a wife who are being destroyed as well. I wasn't random like many internet predator abusers - I was TARGETED!- by someone I had known for over 25 years.

The Set-Up
The man I speak of is named J. We were intimate briefly in undergrad school. He left to go to another school and I didn’t hear from him until April 2002, when he emailed me "out of the blue." Seems he got my email address from Classmates.com where J has contacted other old friends, too.

He was currently unemployed (formerly the publisher of a children's magazine) so had the time to IM me every day. We caught up and J quickly initiated an emotional affair. He found out that I have a child, am disabled and divorcing due to verbal and emotional abuse. He was extremely sympathetic about other abusive relationships I had been trapped in and my new internet “love” couldn't have been nicer. As soon as I got comfortable with this emotional cyber affair, the love bombing began.

Love Bombing Begins
This man likes cybersex and initiated it with me rapidly. I told him to slow down, I wanted lunch or coffee with him, a face to face, in order to catch up. “You’re moving too fast,” I told him. J began pushing to meet me at a hotel right away but I told him no. So he refused to see me! Even tho I was 10 minutes from his office (when he found work again), he kept telling me he "couldn't control himself" around me. The “no lunch” but “meet me in a hotel,” was confusing, especially since I was convinced we were “falling in love” again.

J told me he couldn’t see me socially because, "I’ll have to make some hard decisions about my marriage even if we just see each other as friends.”

I told him I was not comfortable getting involved with someone who was married with children. After my reality shots, he would distance himself from me for a few weeks and come back with a vengeance. J used a lot of "confusing talk" with me and then played dumb. He would twist things, making it seem like I was acting overbearing and aggressive when he had initiated and encouraged my interest.

This man elicited sympathy from me by saying that ADHD was his "problem." He has told me he is on Wellbutrin, and called them his "happy pills." My new cyber love-interest also bragged that he had a friend whose mom worked at Pfizer so he could get his Vitamin V (Viagra). This he needed, you understand, because his wife was so cold and unfeeling towards him. He shared these things with me not as "sob stories" mind you, but as one old friend telling another the truth about how their life had turned out.

He Lectured Me on Morality
In September 2002 my estranged husband found some files on my computer regarding this emotional affair. The abuse from my ex escalated. Because of my feelings for J, I defended him. Sharing my predicament with J, his response was to distance himself for weeks. When he contacted me again, it was as if the emotional stuff between us NEVER happened. When I did bring it up, I got MORALITY lectures as if I was the one who began this “affair.”

As many abused women do, I rationalized it. I remembered him as a very sweet, quirky person in college. He had been the great love of my life and it was easy to be grateful for the attention and friendship and rationalize away his inconsistencies. I continued to encourage him to speak frankly with his wife about his feelings and needs. We continued talking for many months as friends.

J admitted to me he was addicted to online-porn, roll-playing and masturbating. He masturbated to me live on web cam once (NOT at my request) and sent me pictures of his penis and a number of pornographic images. These I deleted immediately but allowed him to send in the name of friendship. He started requesting I do things for him on web cam all the while telling me it was "the only safe way we could be together." I was very hesitant, confused and unable to identify the game. He would then apologize profusely for even asking.

He might say what we were doing was o.k. and then the next day or even an hour later act like he didn't remember what had happened. Sometimes he’d trivialize our cybersex. Many times he told me he was 'sick' and 'needed help' but when I offered to help he placated me and did nothing. He made it seem like I was PUSHING him sexually when the total opposite was true. Astonishingly, J even told me, "I look at every woman like they are just a hole." Do these guys even remember who they are talking to? Do we?

I realize now, he's a Sex Addict
Obviously, I realize now, he's a sex addict, among other things. The things he wanted me to do became rougher and cruder and I started to say “No” to him again. Even tho I had had a prior relationship with him, this was ALL waaaay out of character for me. I even stopped speaking to him for weeks at a time because I was so uncomfortable. I was vulnerable and flattered by his interest so I kept forgiving and going back, telling myself, “After all, we are good friends.”

I wanted desperately to see him and eventually gave an ultimatum. Finally, we ended up having lunch--just once, in Manhattan in Sept. 2003. It didn’t go well. J was stand-offish and didn’t look me in the eye. The conversation revolved around pleasantries with ZERO acknowledgement of what had passed between us. He positioned us at a table where he could sit FAR away from me. Besides the remoteness and stinging reserve, the most disturbing thing he did was upon leaving. There was a short flight of stairs to negotiate. I gingerly walked by the wall so I could steady myself. Due to my disability, my legs aren't always reliable. Rather that stepping in and helping me, like most normal people do, he stood at the bottom of the stairs and backed away like I was a monster.

I cried in the car on the way home. This is a pattern for most abused women. They get charmed into an emotional attachment, allow abuse in the name of love or loyalty, get hurt and begin to doubt themselves and their worth, then rationalize away the abuse when the charm is turned on again, and finally, insanely, they think they can help the guy understand what he has done and help him change! We are good natured, loyal and loving idiots regarding this pattern. Sad to say, I allowed myself to become part of the pattern again, even after this lunch that demonstrated his true and evil character.

I introduced him to his next target
J also fancies himself a writer. He writes extensively on ethics, morals and religions and has his own website. In January 2004 he wrote an article that I helped him with. I then introduced him to an online female friend in California who is also involved with Jewish issues. She helped place his article in a couple more places.

I eventually learned that shortly after I introduced them, J initiated an online affair with her. She ALSO comes from an unhappy marriage and a background of abuse so, once again was an easy target for him. Ironically, he came with my recommendation! She stopped talking to me for weeks, and finally IM'd me to ask me a question about him. One thing led to another and after 36 hours of no sleep, here's what came out of that marathon conversation:

He was going to see her in San Francisco (he had to go there on business so his work would pick up the tab for his liaison) to start an actual affair and tried to prevent us from communicating. When this woman and I did talk, we realized J was weaving a tapestry of lies and conceit, the details of which are perplexing, often silly and sometimes painful. It became evident that he was a deeply sick person. Where the lies ended and the truth started, I doubt even he knew.

At this point, it was obvious even to me that this love of my life was, as I had suspected for some time, not “into” me. J had given her his business phone, his cell number and a variety of ways to contact him in only 5 weeks of knowing her. He did not do these things for me. Yet if I tried to discontinue the friendship with this realization that he wasn't INTO ME - he would come back and BOMB me with how much I meant to him and “please don't stop talking to me.“ It was easy to see his sickness and dysfunction; it was harder to get at my own. I was still being reeled in with the obsession that somehow I could help him and that he needed me.

When our sex/love addict 'friend' found out us girls had talked, he spent several days trying to call and smooth it out. Finally, he IM'd me threatening to tell my husband we'd had an actual affair and assured me he was a good liar (I kept a copy of this IM in case I ever needed to protect myself). The woman in California and I made a decision to turn all our information over to his wife and rabbi in hopes that they would intervene. This of course, fueled his anger and since I live the closest to him and J knows my address, I was and continue to be very scared. I doubt he would come and try to harm me, BUT I realize I don't really know this “love of my life” after all.

"I possess psychic powers and can touch women with my mind."

He once told me and a younger friend of mine (that he also tried to 'get jiggy’ with), “I possess psychic powers and can touch women with my mind.” J also said he was going to Israel to help with their politics and made a few "predictions." When I called him on these things he said he was only joking.

Then I got an email from a friend and they showed me some websites where J had been posting lurid reviews of at least 12 call girls he has seen in NYC. It simply confirmed that there was a heck of a lot more going on than just a couple bad online affairs. Some of these hookers he saw prior to me and some during. In one of our first conversations when he moaned about his wife I asked him if he'd ever been to a hooker. His reply? "Oh NO!!! I would never do THAT!! My wife and I have money and a good lifestyle and if she found out she would take the kids from me. Besides, it’s immoral." (can you hear me laughing?)

It seems J is registered at every "sex partners wanted for discreet relationship" site on the net. He makes no effort to hide that he is married, has kids or even exactly where he lives! This freaked me out because his wife works at home. Any psycho could go there and kill her and/or his kids.

What You Need to Know
He has had executive jobs with toy and child-related firms and currently works for a family magazine and travels extensively. J once told me he enjoys working in industries that focus around children. This worries me. I worry about the progression of sex addiction and if it may extend to children. Last summer he sent me and another friend, pictures of his 11 year old daughter in provocative poses in her bedroom saying he and she were just having fun. Disturbing.

Sex addiction is progressive and dangerous and I don’t know how far his has gone. He once sent me a photo from Halloween where he dressed as Spiderman, his penis visible through the costume in public. The woman in California sent me a homemade porn video he made of himself and one of the pornographic e-cards he sent her. She also tried to turn these over to the FBI—thinking, like me, that the police might want to stop a man like this. They don’t. Or won’t. Or can’t. Who knows?

The Police Target the Girls, not the Guys
I finally called the Computer Crimes division and made a trip to their offices. They took everything from me and thanked me profusely (a big change from my local precinct). One of his online escort booking agencies was busted and his favorite madam was arrested in a very public trial. This female sociopath plead out to only one charge, but thank God for something. My local Dept of Investigation is involved, as well as the CPS and State Attorney General. But what galls me is, these agencies seem to have done ZERO about him or the other men who buy these escorts.

His Wife's Denial
His wife has been told everything but has probably been so abused and lied to by him she doesn't know what to believe. Because I haven’t kept his secrets and have contact with his other targets, J and his wife tried to charge me with harassment! Yet I had cut off contact long ago! By sending copies of everything I had on the guy to the detective they involved, J and his wife’s harassment accusations stopped.

I did find out he convinced his wife that I masterminded everything (LOL) and I planted it all. She's staying with him. He tried to tell people I was stalking him and the woman in California was harassing him. J is good at what he does, casting his demons onto others and convincing those in his life that HE is the victim. He has even posted things on his website aimed at anyone who tells the truth about him.

I did hear that J convinced his employer, his rabbi, and his family that I had been stalking him for years. Fortunately, I saved many of our conversations and IMs with the source codes so I can prove this is false, if need be. My tormentor also claimed that I planted the stuff on the escort review boards, but fortunately he paid with his credit card and the ISP information bares me out.

He treated me like a dirty secret
J's been snooping, 16 months later. He has emailed one my friends and has been found going to websites I frequent, no direct contact though. I am still being treated for PTSD to learn how to overcome my pain and memory of this. He's a sexual addict, a psychological sadist and yup - a sociopath.

He got me to keep his secret for two years - and treated me like a dirty secret in return. Don't fall for this. Nothing beats fresh air and sunshine to disinfect abuse.

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#2351 - 02/13/06 03:43 PM Re: My story [Re: Dianne E.]
mindy Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 34
Hi all,

I have been meaning to tell my story here for the last month, ever since i joined - but haven't so far because i've either been too emotionally drained to write, or have been working at getting my life back in order and thus not wanting to relive or think about what happened with me. But now perhaps it's time i wrote this out.

My story has similarities to that of shattered4good - my 'romance' if i can call it that, was mainly thru the net.

I first met him 25 years ago, in college. I was 19, he was 20. He was funny, witty, intelligent and always had the rest of us - his classmates - in splits with his jokes.

I came from a protected, conservative life, and meeting openly and freely with boys, as i could do in college, was a novelty for me.

This person - i shall call him B - was among the first i spoke to. He was clearly attracted to me - and i found that attractive. There was also something different about him - something darker, deeper, sadder perhaps - i don't know. whatever it was, it made me more aware of him.

one day, in conversation, it came out that he had no TV at home - there was a big event that was being televised nationally and he wanted to see it. I invited him home.

He accepted my invitation and came. He had taken special trouble for the occasion - clean shirt, neat hair etc. He was awkward and diffident with my family, and their instant reaction to him was one of dislike. Anyway. He came and we sat in the downstairs room and watched tv and when the programme was over, he left. i watched him go. Then my grandmother took me aside and told me. 'Don't be friends with that boy. There is something in his eyes that is not quite right.' That spooked me.

After this, his attentions became more persistent. I disliked it. There was casual physical contact - his hand brushing against mine, or he sitting too close to me 'accidentally' and so on. I hated it. I made it clear to him in many ways that his attentions were unwelcome. He started waiting at the bus stop for me - and getting into the sam ebus as i. initially i dismissed thsi as coincidence - but when it kept happening i became very uncomfortable, and stopped taking that bus to college. Once, he escorted me home after a late nite college do. I accepted his escort because it was really late, and i was desperate to get home before i crossed my curfew limit at home. he was courteous, kind and considerate, and reached me home safely. But i still did not welcome his attentions.

Now, the strange bit - i seem to have blanked out much of what happened between him and me those 3 years. Friends tell me of the time when he stated to me how he felt about me, and i got up and ran away. i don't rememeber this, but several people hav etold me they clearly remeber this happening, and how upset i was later. I do remember what i think was the last time i ever spoke directly to him whilst still in college: he cam eup to me one morning before class and held out a book. 'Do u want to read thsi? ' he asked. I replied, 'No, i have enough to read right now.' I did not want to borrow his book. He insisted, saying i could keep it. I noticed then that it was a library book, and pointed that out to him, saying he would need to return it. he laughed and said no, he had stolen it out of the library, and had got it specially for me. I took the book and threw it on the floor, saying i did not want it. He shrugged an dsaid, 'Well, i don't want it either.' I walked away in one direction, he in another. Shortly after i heard he was seeing someone seriously.

Some things to be noted:

1. his stealing of the library book - he used to do this regularly - steal books from libraries and bookshops. it is tempting to point this out as an early warning - but i would not do so. Stealing books was a macho game amongst many of the college boys. Besides, he loved reading, and was seldom able to afford buying a book.

2. i came to know much much later that the two years he bothered me with his attention in college were the exact two years he was seeing this other girl. Ironically, this girl went on to marry one of my closest friends, and is one of my dearest friends today. Unfortunately, at that time i did not know her well, so we never spoke. Later, much later, after he ruined my happiness and peac eof mind, i told thsi friend all that had happened. that is when she told me for the first time the treu story of what had happened with her. He had behaved with her in almost exactly the selfsame way he had behaved with me, right down to using the same words and phrases. she hurt badly when she heard what he had done to me - she hurt for me, and for herself. And I, when i heard her story, felt a blazing anger within me against him which i had not done on my own account, but did on hers.

I have no further memories of him till twenty years later, in the autumn of 2004, when he came back into my life thru an alumni college group. he sent out a general mail to the inetrnet group - of which i was moderator. I replied, welcoming him on board, and then - and this is where one starts believing in karma - i wrote him a personal mail, saying hello, and asking him how he was and where he had been all these years. He wrote back - cheerful, friendly. I thought that 20 years had mellowed him, after all we had all grown up, and it would be good to talk. So iwrote back. We began having an interesting conversation - which extended over perhaps 2 or 3 days. He told me how wonderful it was to talk thsi way, and how he felt so much ease in writing to me and how he could tell me anything. Soon after, he was talking of love. I was surprised, and flattered, but didn't quite believe it could be anything beyond a light flirtation. But he was persistent. He kept at it till he had me, till all my defences broke down. i admit, at that time, i was so vulenrable, so alone, that those defences were crazily easily to breach. Then, he wrote, "I have a lot of darkness within me, my love. It is going to come your way, lost and lots of it." I knew his story - his abusive, alcoholic father and the tragic suicide of his mother, and his finding her hanging from the ceiling when he came back from school. I said nothing, except that i was there for him, and would be, an dloved him enough to take his darkness. he then wrote a long long letter, telling me about his mother's suicide and what happened straight after that.

Note this:
1. he wrote the letter as though he was confiding all this to me, and had never spoken of it to anyone else, or at laest not to too many others. Fact is, all that he wrote was knowledge in the public domain. Everyone knew what had happened in his life, and had known for years

2. he told me much of what he did - lived alone for a while, left the house, found a job, supported himself thru college etc. Not once did he tell me how he felt. And never, in all the conversations, did he express love, sorrow, regret around his mother. He told me once of how she would beat him if he didn't do as well in school as she wanted him to, and how he felt her life had been a waste. that was all.

So far, he sounds not to bad, maybe?

After thsi he became more importunate. He would mail me nonstop thru the day. i fi took more than 10 minutes to respond i would be flooded with a stream of 'where are you, why haven't u replied' mails till i did reply. slowly but surely he took over my life. nothing else mattered - he left em no time for anything else. work, food,sleep, family, friends, all slowly ceased to exist in my world. he became more an dmore important.

i am so tired writing this - but i shall continue.

at the time my marriage was in bad shape. he helped to break it up further by begging me every day to take a divorce and leave. of course, he could not be with me straight away - he had a small son an dneeded hsi son to grow up so he could explain to him why Daddy had to go away with a strange woman - but that i should leave at once. the 'sex' started - first he asked me questiosn about what i was wearing, what myshampoo smelled like, what texture my clothes were, and so on. he sent me a pron site. i didn't understand and asked him to explain. he laughed and brushed it away an dmade sure he never went that way again. he got on t instant meesaging - and that's when the trouble truly began. he took over my mind completely - would start writing at 4 am nonstop till 3 pm. he wanted 'sex' all the time - would describe hsi reactiosn an ddesires in great detail to me, his erotic dreams and so on - all centred on me. i had never expereineced anything like thsi bombardment before. today i wonder how i bore it. but i was swept along by his passion, and his apparent total an dcomplete infatuation with me. and somehow, somewhere, i fell in love the way i never had before. it was a madness.

he began to plan a future. i asid it coudln't be. he brsuhed aside all my objections. i began believing him.

he asked me to go away with him for a few days. i said i couldn't, i didn't have a reason. he said he would craete areason, give me an assignemnt officially, and then i coudl go. i agreed. he began to plan. i was ready to leave.

then, i had to go for a mammogram - it was a follow up check for breast cancer (i had had a scare the previous year and was still under routime exams). he was tense an dkeyed up before i left for the exam. he sounded different. i said i'd have to leav ein a few minutes. he said 'good bye' i laughed and replied i hadn't gone - was still waiting for my taxi, that he was too uqick to say goodbye. i was joking. for me life was wonderful, perfect with him in it, and loving me the way he did. he asked, 'is that true my love? am i too quick to say goodbye?' i told him i was joking.

i went for my scan, cam eback, he messaged me, and asked the result, i told him it was clear. he was a bit peculiar in hsi response, i put it down to tension. fo rme now the way was clear. i was leaving home, children, marriage to be with him. i was ready to fly.

next day he vanished, totally diasppeared. i was frantic. he did not rsepond to anything. i called him. he hung up twice, then mumbled - 'do not call'. then he texted me - 'my son is ill'. i thought the child was dying. i went crazy with worry. he wouldn't respond. finally he wrote, saying it was over. his reason? his son had a cold and he felt that he really couldn't leave him for me. i couldn't believe it. a cold?! and not as though we had not talked about this before. we had gone over this over an dover - tehimpact on the children, and how to deal with their hurt, and he had assured me we would somehow do thsi right an dbe together. suddenly, no more. he was done.

i went crazy. i called him. he hung up on me 21 times, and finally answered to say he couldn't talk tome any more.

thsi was teh beginnibg - of so much hurt, humiliationa nd abuse that i find it hard to put down. finally, i found teh strength to break away. that's when i started talkig to friends about what had happened to me. that's when so much truth cam eout, so many of his lies were exposed. that's when the pain REALLY started, when i understood at last what he had been all about. A friend listened to teh deatisl of my inetraction - which i ahven't teh strength to wriet here, even now - and said 'his behaviour apttern si that of an abuser - if not physiacll violence, then definitely emotioanl abuse. he is beyond help. he is a psychopath.' that was the beginning fo my quest to undersatnd what the term 'psychopath' really meant. the friend who said thsi works with abusedw omen an dchildren, and is qualified to knwo such things. anyway - the followed months an dmonths of heartache and the fight against the destruction eh ad set up in my soul. i spoke to as many peopel who knew him a si could. when they heard my story they told me theirs - tales of grief an ddarkness an dhurta nd paina nd humilaition. i found dr hare's check list. i raed up all i could. at last the pattern began to emerge, the pieces began to fit, an di realsied what i had been up against, how close to complete destruction i had been. then i found thsi forum - thsi helped me to heal - becauseall of u validated my feelings, did not run me down, said yes - such a thing si spossible, not meerly inthe mind of a woman who has been dumped, whose lover has moved on.

i have left out much - some of it i have rwitten about in other posts.

but broadly, this is the outlin eo fmy story. many of teh deatils all of u will be able to fill. thsi man, who i thought was the love of my life, is truly a psychopath - heartless, remorseless, guiltless. he checks out on all but two of dr hare'slist - and thsoe two pertain to childhood matters i don'thav einformation on.

i am exhausted - emotionally an dmentally. forgive teh typos. i hope thsi helps someone, somewhere, deal with the pain an ddestruction such people give thsoe
who care about tehm teh most. i still hurt, writing thsi. but i hav eno tears left. nothing.

mindy

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