Many of us have posted concerning the cycles that we experience in dealing/having dealt with a P in our lives.
Confusion, depression, guilt, adulation, clarity. I sometimes find myself cycling in another direction...revenge. I think about creating
a situation or setting something up in my P's life to get back in some way. Mostly it involves hitting at a place that will really have some impact (if that is even possible) but always, always in a manner that could not be connected directly to me. I'm curious if anyone else finds themselves fantasizing in this way as well and if they would care to share what the payback might involve. Of course, in dealing with a P a setback really isn't that at all...for too long at least. A true P would just pick himself/herself up and move on to the next situation. In that way they truly are like the characters in the Terminator movies.

>>A true P would just pick himself/herself up and move on to the next situation. In that way they truly are like the characters in the Terminator movies<<

You know Rick. . .there were many times I thought after that last time with P that if I had died on the way home I could have seen his reaction. Not sadness or grief but more like "oh well. . . too bad". . .and his life would have gone on as normal. I don't know if you have followed my story but I barely made it home that night with my life. I was actually fighting to stay in my head. I still believe I was drugged and many of the people who have counseled me believe that as well. How he put me out on the road and let me find my way out of the woods on a back,lonely road only can be ascribed to P personality. He didn't even call for over a week to see if I made it home okay. I thought for sure I would die that night. I believe it is a miracle that I didn't. I was a hysterical basket case and the following morning it was like I was fighting to get back in my head.

I say all that to say this. . .I don't think he cared one whit. I think life would have gone on as normal for him. . .like "no big deal". . .he would probably have rationalized it was my fault.

Terminator style. . .yes! I couldn't have said it better!

Thanks Rick.
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Finished & Rick:

i want to say i have felt exactly where u r today Rick...many many times. I have even planned out situations that (with alot of work) would seriously get P in trouble. Although i was instrumental in his loss of work because of the sneaky ways in which he was contacting, staying close to me, he didtn't know).......i have done nothing else. every now and then, still, i get the HUGE urge and the spinning/planning happens again.

i am NOT in a spin currently. i see revenge as a waste of my time AND the potential outcome towards ME may be diasterious. so in this mind set right now, i would caution u to use your head and not your emotions---for the betterment/safety of YOU>.....

i likely will spin that way again...but i am finding it happening less and less.

let me say this though....if MORE antics keep happening to me I WILL DO SOMETHING..to make it known that i am still being harassed and i will not keep taking 'comebacks' when i have said 'go away' and he still persists.

so what am i saying?......be very very careful about these 'get back' spin cycles.

there are 'safe' ways to do little things but i am truly afraid to mention it here.....

be careful..be smart..stay safe.


Finished:

when i hear what happened to you AGAIN...(i have read it before)..it makes me crazy!!!.....you are so lucky...and what happened is just too much. but now we know better.

you take care too please.

Rick:

its weird that i just read your posting as i was fininshing a phonecall with my mother. although i love her dearly, what happened again tonite during conservation pertains some indirectly to your question.

i have been tellingmom that i no longer want contact with my abusive brother in any manner. he has come back to live with her (he is 52!) because he is having a nervous breakdown(?)... well last year it was something else and on and on..suffice to say he's been a big loser all his life and has done alot to me and my family over the years.

about a year ago we had a huge fight and i began to see he had alot of the traits we speak of in this forum. but did u know that i really never 'got it' until i was well into dealing with ex P and fraud business P?...i mean..i have known my brother obviously for a long time, although we do not live in close proximity. i am 800 miles from my extended family. so i talk alot to mom as she has been widowed etc. and i just plain love and care for her. BUT...u see...she catered to these type of men and their acting out all her life. my father, although not a P was abusive in his own way and always my brother.

to make a very,very long ugly story short, i decided to finally let go of said brother. i let go of a few other people after the P duo was understood by me. i decided it was house cleaningtime for once and all.

here's my point. tonite, i was angry at mom again for something my brother was smoozing her about and i got real upset...she started to cry etc..etc..i got madder because SHE ONCE AGAIN defended him! even though she knows what he is like...all he has done...she is still protecting him!

she was crying and telling me how mean i was and i should learn to 'forgive and forget'. she is very sweet and tenderhearted and has been hurt so many times all her life. she preached on about God etc., the peaceful life when one has forgiveness and lets go of the past.

do u see what i am getting at?

i was blamed for reacting to brother's wrong doing and she was, in a nutshell, telling me to let go of the past and take him back. (i did all this to the point of nausea so often before and got royally screwed over too many times being too NICE)

by the end of the conversation, i felt bad she was crying, as i know she wants her kids to all love one another etc.. but what she was really asking me to do was 'reward' his behavior. WRONGO>

i was raised with this thinking!..of course...the Christian forgive..forgive till you are left with nothing inside...but arent we peaceful now?

i am of course being sarcastic. it is to point out that 'look at how we are molded into mindsets that are illogical and keep us victims' even though we FEEL this is the correct thing to do and way to love.

i have changed my belief system about "love" and what is truly means to me. it has taken a long time to get there.

i cannot forgive and let go of my brother's many wrong violent/abusive doings.

i can only forgive the situation and let it go, now wiser.

he will never change. he doesn't feel he is ever wrong, no compromise.

i have to change. i did.

sorry mom...but because u are elderly i will now keep more to myself so i dont hurt u, and i cant change your beliefs and have no right to. i was trying to 'rescue you also'.

can't do this if no one is listening/willing.

so yes...i learned to be a rescuer, a giver to the nth degree. i still am, but now i am way discerning to "whom".

something has come to mind since i experienced the phonecall from om tonite and commenting on Rick's post.

i was very angry when i was talking to my mother regarding 'brother'. its for sure NOT the first time i have felt this. to be honest, i felt enraged. i felt unheard, unvalidated, my needs unmet totally...just as it was typically growing up years ago.

i was watching my behavior somewhere in the midst of my great anger. i saw myself feeling hopeless again, childlike acting out. screaming inside me was "u are not even hearing anything i am saying ...AGAIN!!!...hello.....
I HAVE FEELINGS TOO!.

i felt myself spinning with overwhelming emotion, the past, the present, the likely negative future of this part of myself and my family's relationship. all these years and not alot has changed, except me!

i felt abandoned, useless...etc....

i felt (for that emoting time) like just giving up, why bother, they never listen, i have no voice there...i never did.

THEN..and this is my point in this posting, i felt briefly "enititled" to be difficult and angrier because i flet i was doing the "rigth thing" and no one cared. i went into big self righteousness listing all the wonderful things i do as a daughter that others wouldnt and how much i have tried to be a good sister etc. the thoughts spun faster and more angry and more like i was "entitled" to HAVE and SPOUT my feelings.

then i wondered as i caught my insanity spiraling, "is this what 'made to be-P's feel like, but worse in their beginnings"? are these the emotions and patterns some 'made P's' experience over and over until their brain/heart/emotions give up and shut down from abuse and abandonment.

i sat later as i calmed myself and began to try to put myself in this mode more so so 'see' if i could experience more of what a beginning P would rationalize as "entitlement" to his feelings and subsequent later behavior. could it work this way? and mine wass temoroary , but i felt horrible injustice like i always did as a kid. i though, have not become even close to the "P checklist", thankgod. if anything i am just TOO outspoken about what i feel and care about.

if this is how they begin, it is no wonder. yes why couldnt one just shut down after much abuse and give up only to serve slef without hope or care for anyone ever again. where would the incentive be?

have others felt what i say here?

Finished,

Yes, I have read your postings and remember the trauma that you experienced. Your P has to be one of the more callous that I have read about...just short of a serial killer in my opinion. It's amazing that you made it through.

I do agree with you....P's only react to misfortune and things not going their way in the short term. Since they have no emotional memory such experiences do not stay with them....good or bad.

Rick

I've had the revenge fantasy many a time, but when my head clears I realize it would probably connect back to me. I also realize the fantasies are just more of a waste of my positive energy and that he is "winning" when I'm focusing on him. So I try to focus on doing something productive instead.

The sweetest revenge is "no contact". It's the only way to neutralize their power.

>>P's only react to misfortune and things not going their way in the short term. Since they have no emotional memory such experiences do not stay with them....good or bad.<<

That is a VERY good point to remember. Many times I would bring up an old unresolved issue only to be accused of "holding on to the past". Not being able to get over it. It was like all the pain I suffered was an insignificant issue and my feelings trite. "Get over it" was a favorite saying and you can't live in the past. But so many past unresolved issues made any reconcilation virtually impossible.

Very good point!

Thank you especially for that "emotional memory" insight. I never had thought of it that way before. Now that you say that, I can see how true it is.

Hope all is going well for you Rick,
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>when i hear what happened to you AGAIN...(i have read it before)..it makes me crazy!!!.....you are so lucky...and what happened is just too much. but now we know better.

you take care too please.<<

Dusty!

How sweet you are. Thank you for your validation and support. I agree. . .we are wiser now. I've been so grateful for the forum. I have and continue to learn SOOOOO much. I feel I've made some wonderful friends here. You all mean so much to me.

I so appreciated your comments and concern. Thank you so much.

(((hugs)))
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>

Hi Dusty,

>>to make a very,very long ugly story short, i decided to finally let go of said brother. i let go of a few other people after the P duo was understood by me. i decided it was house cleaning time for once and all.

here's my point. tonite, i was angry at mom again for something my brother was smoozing her about and i got real upset...she started to cry etc..etc..i got madder because SHE ONCE AGAIN defended him! even though she knows what he is like...all he has done...she is still protecting him!

she was crying and telling me how mean i was and i should learn to 'forgive and forget'. she is very sweet and tenderhearted and has been hurt so many times all her life. she preached on about God etc., the peaceful life when one has forgiveness and lets go of the past.

do u see what i am getting at?

i was blamed for reacting to brother's wrong doing and she was, in a nutshell, telling me to let go of the past and take him back. (i did all this to the point of nausea so often before and got royally screwed over too many times being too NICE) <<

I would just like to comment on this.

It sounds like your mom and brother are in a very codependant relationship. If your mom is elderly, she probably has never learned about "tough love" and sounds like she is confused about Christian forgiveness (which does not mean lay down a be a doormat).

The reality is that you cannot change your mom (or brother). Obviously brother is a user and abuser (from what you said) and mom has a history of being abused and has been brainwashed that she is supposed to "forgive and forget" EVERYTHING!! And Dusty, she has been brainwashed if that is her core belief.

Speaking from my own experience, I also was carefully trained to do just what your mom is doing. I was also taught it was my "Christian' duty to stay with a man who abused me in every way (P#1). It took this last episode with P#2 to break through the denial and REALLY begin to look for some answers.

Finding this forum was answer #1. Betrayed encouraged me to go to DVIS and get help, I went to the rape center. . .I've posted all the places I've gone for help. As I go, I learn. The most important thing I learned was I don't HAVE to accept this behavior (from anyone) AND I DID NOTHING TO PROVOKE IT. But in many ways I was like your mom. I had been "taught" to believe something else. I was told I was responsible for making others happy. That was my job. I was not ever supposed to say no either. I have to REALLY WORK to change those old thought patterns. They are so ingrained I have to make a conscience effort to do so.

The Verbally Abusive Relationship addresses this soooo well. If you haven't read it, it may help understand where your mom is coming from. It won't help her, but it will help you.

You dont have to have contact with bro unless you want to. I can totally understand how you feel. I know your heart aches to see your mom being used by him. I believe as you keep reading and posting, you will begin to know exactly what you need to do in regards to bro.

So glad you are here and we have each other to bounce this stuff of of.

love
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