i ask anyone who wants to share.

do any of you believe that your particular P at any time truly loved you...even for a brief time?

perhaps i am way out, but i do believe mine actually did.(in his own way) i believe he was caught up in the 'chemical rush' of having 'fallen in love' as i was. i do however also believe his original intent was to quietly try to sexually seduce me, the happily married woman. i do not think he ever thought he could or would fall in love.

Dusty.

As you surely know, the Psychopath loves himself/herself and only themselves. They try as much as they can getting
you in their claws, so they can manipulate you to think that he/she loves you over all in the world.
The word "LOVE" means only me and no one else for them.
They use it because they want your acknowledgement.
I don`t believe in love from a Psychopath.

Regards Lisleby.

Dusty,

the Ps must have some motivation in seeking out our company, not all of them seek out relationships because they want to torment people (although I acknowledge that some appear to).

It is my experience that some of them lack a requirement for intimacy (in its entirety), although have a requirement to be close to someone attractive so that they can bask in the reflection off the arm-candy. I do believe that they fall in love with the prospect that the latest conquest will potentially fill the gapping hole that is their missing self-esteem. Of course nobody can fill this gap, and they eventually resent the conquest for falling short of their potential to fill the hole in their self-esteem, and further for having attempted intimacy with them, hence the blame / criticism stage is inititated. Those Ps who have abandonment issues stay, and these relationships escalate into the nightmares that are some of those stories we read in the "My Story" threads, those who don't have abandonment phobia, check out without saying goodbye, and more often than not, with your car / life savings / best friend, etc.

I think that those of us left with the scars that are the aftermath, find it very difficult to fully realise that they had no requirement for intimacy in the first instance, and it is our requirement for intimacy that hounded them into behaving the way they did, and further keeps us hanging on for that shred of acknowledgement, that will make us feel better.

When you accept that they had no requirement for intimacy, and really, really, really, think about it, you realise its like comparing oranges and lemons... they are not the same thing, and there's no point hoping that a lemon will ever taste like an orange ~ it won't.

Do I believe that my P truly loved me at some point? He has been besotted with me for the last 6 years, and despite however much I have antagonised him, trying to work out what it is between us that doesn't work and further inquringing why he responds to these intrustions by being insistently positively heinious towards me, he still doesn't tell me to take a long walk off a short pier, anymore than I am capable of doing likewise. Why because he knows that in continuing to harrang him, I care, and I know that whilst he continues to get annoyed at me that he cares.

Conclusion: of course this guy is in love with me.

Does it change anything? No, I need emotional intimacy in my close relationships, and I will be pig miserable without it. So time to move on from this emotional retard, and settle down with someone who doesn't think that intimacy is optional. (End of story.)

These are just my thoughts on my situation, and I realise that others will have very different experiences.

Kind regards

K.T.

KT:

<<<<<<
Conclusion: of course this guy is in love with me.

Does it change anything? No, I need emotional intimacy in my close relationships, and I will be pig miserable without it. So time to move on from this emotional retard, and settle down with someone...>>>>


wow!


yikes........i like the way u write.

yip.

u understand.

i need to think and re re read this post of yours. lots to get through.

thanku.

and..please ...if u desire...write more........

Dusty,

glad that I might be helping in however small a way.

My viewpoint comes from reading this book:

The Abusive Personality: Violence and Control in Intimate Relationships By Donald G. Dutton

And from the very kind advice from a similarly afflicted individual who has no intimacy requirement ~ he isn't a P though, he's autistic. Evidently some people, P or otherwise, do not have a requirement for intimacy.

Rick maybe touched on this, in that he indicated that his P's mother describe that her son never wanted to indulge in cuddles.

Actually, my mother sayes the same about me, that as she understands me I do not seek out intimacy, have always been "hands off" even as a tiny baby. I believe this is an autistic trait in me, I am not a P ~ Heaven forbid!!!!

I do recognise that I did not have a requirement for intimacy as a child. As a teenager this developed into a curiosity about intimacy that lead to a degree of loneliness that prompted me to experiment with intimacy in romantic relationships, and I never looked back.

So I discovered intimacy at the age of 16 and do seek it out in intimate relationships, but only when I am comfortable with the individual and ready too.

However to this day I am overwhelmed with ardent admirers, and so I tend to select those who do not overwhelm me with emotional or physical intimacy demands. From time to time in my life, I feel so threatened by ardent admirers, that I will trade committment for protection of someone who likes me but is under-whelming me with demands for physical and emotional intimacy. Because ardent admirers usually give up pursuing you if they believe you are committed to someone else.

If follows that someone who does not have a requirement for intimacy is likely to not be emotionally or physically intimately demanding.

Obviously some Ps, for whatever reason, still do not have a requirement for intimacy, and they might therefore fit into this category of not so ardent admirers not placing physical or emotional intimate demands on you before you are ready. e.g. they can appear as honourable and sensitive gentlemen.

This is one of the qualities that I find very attractive, and I suspect that many Ps have this quality. For me that is a real eye opener major red flag to what out for when initiating new relationships.

I just worked this out today.

I hope this helps in some way Dusty.

I'm happy to elaborate how I derived at my viewpoint. So please do ask questions if you have any.

Kind regards

K.T.

I am so glad someone asked this question because it has been bugging me since I threw my P out of my life. He was with me for seven years. MY heart tells me that on the hundreds of business trips he took in that time that he would call me each day and send emails and cards professing undying love. At night he would hold me so tight and he wanted me sexually every day-more than once a day was what he wanted. My heart tells me that he must have loved me because he asked me to marry him and pushed for a Xmas wedding. But I also used my head and got some facts. My head tells me that he couldn't possibly have loved me as others love because in the week he asked me to marry him, he also asked someone else(confirmed by them). As he was pushing me for a wedding date, he was assisting another of his girlfriends to move to Melbourne - our home town (confirmed by business registration papers). While I spent my 2 week summer break painting the bathroom that our children used (he lived in my home)he went to Brisbane- a city far north- and was making out with girlfriend X (confirmed by his kids and him). In 2000 when he first lived with me, he did about 6 trips to the USA. He would ring me every day and tell me how much he loved me- my heart says he must have loved me. But again my head says look at the facts- on each trip- he had another woman waiting for him (confirmed by her and cross referenced to both our diaries). I even think that he played up on her and on me whilst in the US. So, I don't believe any of us were loved. On a simple level, it looks a bit like a game played with a dog. Sometimes I watch my dog and if I put my head on one side, so does she. Then I turn my head the other way and so does she. She does it because she gets positive reinforcement. ) The P says he loves you because you say you love him and he quickly notes that the I loves you are rewarded with sex or gifts or attention.(I use the dog image because one of the other members recently wrote that P years are like dog years- every year with a P is worth seven normal years) In our hearts we want to know that we were loved because other wise we just wasted our time and were completely conned and that truth is hard to face. I read recently the best piece about facing truth from a woman called Gilberta Najamy who lived with a P who said- the truth is a snare. You cannot have it without being caught. You cannot have the truth in such a way that you catch it but only in such a way that it catches you.

Writer1,

Your story echoes so many of our own. My P insisted on, and professed to, a monogamous relationship. I found out later
that it was anything but that. Yes, I think you are correct..... dealing with a P is much like a game played with your dog. It's all about positive reinforcement.

Rick

>>On a simple level, it looks a bit like a game played with a dog. Sometimes I watch my dog and if I put my head on one side, so does she. Then I turn my head the other way and so does she. She does it because she gets positive reinforcement. )(I use the dog image because one of the other members recently wrote that P years are like dog years- every year with a P is worth seven normal years)<<

writer,
I really like the dog anology. After living in the P. world I have decided that now my best friend is a 7 yr old long haired dog. I know my dog loves me unconditionally (and deserves my love 100%). The P. could have never done that. To hook me P. acted as if his friendship was unconditional. He forgave me for everything, acted as if there wasn't a thing I could do to make him mad. However he did tell me that I would know it if I ever made him mad. He said never let anybody know your true feelings that they will only be used against you. I guess he was warning me about him. He also told me that everybody deserves to be treated okay by him until they do him wrong. Haaa! The truth is he chooses up front who will be in his dellusional wonderful world and who will be made fun of and devalued from the minute he meets you. You can almost bet the ones that are in the wonderful world will cross over to devaluation as soon as they catch on or as soon as they are no good to him. I told him I tried to make it work and he said it would have worked under his
terms. When I look back I see that he has revealed part of his real P. self to me all along, I was just too blinded to see it. Then when it all started to come together it was D&D time.

>>In our hearts we want to know that we were loved because other wise we just wasted our time and were completely conned and that truth is hard to face. I read recently the best piece about facing truth from a woman called Gilberta Najamy who lived with a P who said- the truth is a snare. You cannot have it without being caught. You cannot have the truth in such a way that you catch it but only in such a way that it catches you.<<

I totally agree. The truth is so very hard to accept. I tried hard to make the truth of the P. not what it was once I figured it out, if that makes since. The betrayal was too hard to bare for so long. I work hard today to not allow the memories of betrayal to take over.

betterway

dusty. . .this is something I totally relate to.

>>i believe he was caught up in the 'chemical rush' of having 'fallen in love' as i was. i do however also believe his original intent was to quietly try to sexually seduce me, the happily married woman. i do not think he ever thought he could or would fall in love. <<

Unfortunately. . ."I" was the one who fell in love. . .passionately and profoundly. Still love P#2. . .but do recognize that it will and can never work. He remaims a P.

finished

Finished:

yes. i so agree.

gotta keep working on me, changing my unproductive thought, my blocks, my spins, get out of the past as fast i can to avoid swirling with the downward spiral.