I am curious to know when the "lightbulb" went off and you finally reaized you were dealing with a Psychopath?? Was there a particular book?, was it surfing the web? Was it something a therapist said? When was the first time the word Psychopath entered your vocabulary in describing your mate?

Thanks,
Di

Dianne,

Mine started with the p claiming to possibly have Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), as the psychiatrist treating him suggested. I phoned a friend in New York, he immediately searched the web and sent me info regarding MPD.
MPD did not seem to describe my husband.

So I purchased "Romantic Deception: The Six Signs He's Lying" and "High Risk: Children Without a Conscience," and read them. In both I saw the p, more so in "High Risk...", yet only because it dealt specifically with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Then I checked out "Bad Boy's, Bad Men."

During all this I am horrified. It is him, exactly him. I have these books laying around. He and I openly discussed a lot of the information in them. He even read a lot of "High Risk...". Finally, he looked me in the eye and said, "I think you may be right. I may be a psychopath."

Looking back, I heard him say that and felt nothing, except relief that he admitted to what seemed to be the problem. I didn't feel scared, horrified, felt nothing at all. Just relief. I guess I stopped searching then, as we had obviously both agreed this was the problem. My mistake.

Laura

Wow Laura, you actually told him that you thought he was a psychopath!!??? I'm just amazed that you so directly let him know. I was way too wary and paranoid to ever tell the P that. I will relate more on this topic when I'm not so tired.

Cherie

Cherie,

Yes, I told him. Of course, I was not afraid of him, physically, not at all. He had never lay one hand on me, or act like he would. We talked about everything our entire marriage. Everything. Nothing was taboo. Of course, I was telling the truth, he was lying. Thats why I told him. It was the truth.

Laura

Dianne,

My lightbulb moment occurred when I was so sick for the first time in all our years together after having out last child and he treated me so poorly and without an ounce of empathy. He repeatedly abandoned and spoke such cruel and abusive things that kept me hurt and spinning. After that everything kept sliding downhill. I was afraid of the P. I never confronted him with the knowlege that I received regarding his Psychopathy as I believe it would only have made him more abusive.

I was valildated by a Psychiatrist and then began reading books such as Bad Boys Bad Men, Without Conscience. Then I began surfing the web. When I found the Forum I really felt that I had found a place like no other. There were finally others like me to discuss and share and find validation for our unique circumstances.

Cherie

Laura, I told mine that I believed he was a psychopath, too. It was actually a many years long process of flickering light bulb moments. And not much more time to write, now. Hopefully later. My p also took it well, and we had discussions, and he seemed interested in knowing more about himself, too. Although, he denied being one...the "give a crumb, grab it back" dynamic, in between interest and acceptance. And I am sure he has used this against me, as he uses everything to make me look crazy...and everyone thinks he is so wonderful...I am sure he pretends deep hurt that I actually "called him" a psychopath. While...in accordance with his skewed self perception...he accepts he is one, and it does not read to him as negative at all.

He really mystified me, a few months into our separation...he accompanied me to a meeting to support me in getting help with some hacking problems. He was bragging to the computer nerds there that I had written quite a book, and was sure to get it published, that I had come within an inch of being published previously, and THIS book was sure to be the one. He kept saying "we"...we are sure to succeed with this one...we are so close...we have been working on this for years...

I just couldn't believe it. The book is titled "Psychopath" and it is about him. He hasn't read a word of it, but he knows this much about it. He was PROUD! He was viewing the potential success of this book as HIS success! (Perhps because I have promised to share the money, which I will)

More later.

kris,

I wonder if our "lightbulb moments" are the p's delighted moments? Mine knew something was "wrong" with him. He expressed it verbally all the time. Each time he lied (when his lips moved), he would "apologize" by saying "I don't know why I lie all the time. It is a problem of mine." When he broke laws, he said, "I don't know why I did it," or "I didn't do it." That was his only variation of culpability. He practically verbally handed me the Checklist of psychopathy and gave me ample opportunity to "check" off most all of the criteria.

He had carried on so, his doing, not mine, about "going to treatment, in-patient, on his upcoming vacation from his job." That he would have to take a few weeks unpaid to go along with the paid two week vacation, but that he WAS going to go into a hospital for help, whether I liked it or not. He was admant about this. I felt he should, he was getting worse by the minute.

A big part of me was afraid he would "get well" and leave me. It was a sick relationship, I know that now. Yet he was determined to go for help.

So where was the delight in my "lightbulb moment?" In that he knew already what he was. Chances are great he had already been told, as he had been in much psychiatric care over his lifetime. When I knew, I ran out of use. The game had been in me not knowing.

I was somewhat dreading the month he would be gone, assuming it would have been an entire month for treatment. I was trying to mentally prepare to let him go for a month, maybe forever.

Only he had other ideas. When I figured it out (p), he began plannng the escape. He had to tie up loose ends, arrange for housing (her), store furniture from his apartment, dispose of a vehicle (the El Camino). He had to have funds i.e. money to pull it off. So I'm waiting for this in-patient thing to happen, he's planning on avoiding it all together. Plan A, Plan B.

His vacation was due the first week of June, 2001. He left in the wee hours June 1, 2001. Him delighted, me destroyed.

Laura

Dianne,

There was a thread in the old "Crimenews_2000" forum that relates closely to this question. In a post, someone (Kris?) mentioned an old movie where a female attorney defends a murderer and is convinced of his innocence, and later becomes married to him. Later, she is using his typewriter and realizes that this typewriter is the same one used to type a ransom note for his crime... and that he was guilty, not innocent, and that he had lied to her all along....
In the rest of that thread, several people post about their own "typewriter" moments.

If possible, it might be good to add that thread to the new site. I got alot out of it, (and for me, the word typewriter will forevermore have a double meaning!)

As for your original question in this thread... when did the word enter my vocabulary? I was reading alot of self-help, fix your relationship type of books. My husband's lying had always bothered me, but I never realized how bad it was until after we were married. This was due to my own state of denial. Two different books referred to the "exceptional liar" or the "psychopathic liar". The books were, "101 lies men tell women" and "When your lover is a liar". When I read the checklists in both of those books, the lightbulbs of recognition started going off and the word, with its correct definition, entered my consciousness. Previously, I thought it just meant an insane person. That was the beginning of awareness. For me, the beginning of acceptance and healing came when I entered this forum (then at Crimenews_2000). There were other forums that helped, but this one had the most extensive general information, as well as the sharing through posts, and was easiest format to use. I don't like the email list format, nor the archives that are sent out by some other P websites. But when I need some strength in dealing with it, I go to any and all sites that are online. That is how much it helps to be able to draw from the strength that others share, and even to draw strength from the weaknesses that they share, because just by reading their posts, in my own weakness I am no longer alone. That is not a case of "misery loves company", it is a case of "Thank GOD now I know I'm not nuts! Someone else out there has lived through exactly the same crazymaking experience!"

For his part, my P alluded to a problem, but I don't think he knew the word for it. He said things like, "You don't know me, I am a demon," and he would lower his eyes and shake his head. He told me that he had done horrible things, but never would elaborate. Sometimes I saw his depression from realizing that many people were angry with him, but he could not understand why (lack of empathy). A long time ago, a mutual friend hit that nail on the head when she told him he had no empathy.
When I remember him asking, "Why is everybody angry with me?" and him being so puzzled and saddened by it all, I truly feel sad for him and for all he is missing by not being able to empathize/understand other peoples' feelings, nor able to communicate any subtleties of his own emotions. So many misunderstandings, conflicts, arguements, and overall unpleasant times could have been avoided if he only had a clue on about what other people felt, and about how his own actions and words got him into some messes.

If I had been a better spouse, or more aware at the moment he asked that, I might have asked what he meant and tried to help him figure it out.
As it was, I just held him.

-Leti

PS Somewhere, a researcher wrote about Ps' lack of "emotional memory" as the cause for their inability to empathize and inablility to remember how they felt in a given situation. I think that this is a key part that was missing for my P. Right now, I don't feel good calling him a "P". I just feel sadness for him.

I have had lightbulb moments at different stages in my leaving him and acceptance of his being a Psychopath. When I read on the internet about the signs/red flags of abuse, several weeks before I left him, a lightbulb went off, even though I hid my eyes. When he started to get more physical with me and started to hurt me a huge red lightbulb went off. Within a day of the last time he hurt me, he said something inappropriate to my daughter and her friend. I knew then I was going to back away (I was not ready to leave him) and told him the next morning over the phone because I was too afraid to tell him in person. After I left, when I called his ex wife for the first time, the lightbulb went on and stayed on. I started to know the awful truth then. His sister told me even more and the lightbulb just got brighter. The final huge lightbulb moment was the day in our Psychopath chat when someone gently told me in response to my question about a psychopath getting psychiatric help, that there was no helping them, that many times that type of help made them worse. The realization was difficult, but the light of truth has shown brightly since.

Neverthesame

Laura,

They just love to have something wrong with them, that can be perceived by the world to be a disability of some kind. They don't think things right through though. They are a variation in that sense of the guy who can't work because he has a sore back, and a few days later you see him in a local disco giving it stick on the dance floor.

My dear ex brother in law claimed to me when he was nineteen that he was going to go blind. It was persuasive to me at the time because he couldn't hit a barn door with a frying pan - Gosh, it just this second occurs to me that he did get his marksman's rating.... how did that come about? Anyway he was going to go blind. Thirty five years later he's doing just fine at the last report.

This guy could tell lies to his best pal that just anyone wouldn't believe....... It just never occurred to me that he was lying. And if you caught him out- unintentionally of course - and ask for an explanation, he would look mysterious and say something profound like "I think so and so could tell you more..". Just lying. But oh! The look on the face! Precious!

His sister, my dear ex wife is also one of the world's greatest at lying. Total clam up. I forget. I don't know. You're paranoid. The best was sudden shouting in a public place, which she knew very well embarrassed the hell out of me in front of other diners. The last time she ever did that I just smirked at her. That promptly drove her banannas and she took a swipe at me with a big glove which did rather hurt. Her antics of course did attract attention in that crowded public place and she trumped out, returning a few minutes later to let out a stream of curses. Oh dear me, the mask slipped right off then. By this time I had realised what I had failed to see for twenty odd years - it didn't matter a fig what anyone else thought, and that she was so easy to defeat.

Those people were mad. The lightbulb was discovering the concept of psychopathy and antisocials. The realisation that lying is an extremely serious symptom. Not lying to get out of a jam maybe, but a constructive process of lying, completely unnecessarily, for a destructive purpose.
Planning a theft is to plan the lies. Smashing stuff behind someones back is lying. Cheating on a spouse is lying first and foremost. Character assassination is lying. Liars are detestable. Unfortunately, liars like my dear ex wife and her brother are just the sort who would sail through a polygraph without a blip.

Dianne,

My lightbulb first started glowing when the p and I had an argument in which he demeaned me viciously as never before. Even at the time I remember thinking that he was projecting his own traits onto me cause none of what he said fit my perception of me. The kicker was when he called me worthless, a nothing with no friends (he has no friends), a waste of life. All the while he was pounding on the door blocking my escape from the tirade (which lasted about an hour) I knew at that moment that he was mentally ill as well as being abusive but I did not think p.

The real lightbulb was when I was in the midst of writing a scathing email to him berating him for going to Hawaii with his latest target while I was applying for welfare and food stamps due to his complete abandonment of me and our daughter. In that email I told him he had better 'grow a conscience'. When I reread it at a calmer moment a beacon of light came to me: He has no conscience. I also remember calling him a "psycho" during his tirades. It wasn't long until I put together his string of abusive relationships before me, his projections, his lack of conscience, my feeling that he was a psycho and con man all neatly summed up in the term psychopath. I read alot of books on abusive relationships but even that didn't point me toward p. It was a gradual "AH HA" process...

survivor

My "lightbulb moment came" after talking to a psychiatric nurse that he had been seeing confirmed it to me. He had left the family after his lies and theft started to catch up with him. About a month after he left I received a message from the local hospital saying that someone was looking for him and left a number. Totally by fate, did this hospital operator decide to take it upon herself to realy a message from this person. They had his number on file because we had had a baby 7 months prior and our records were on file. I called this person and it turned out that he had been having an affair with her for about 10 months. After talking to her and finding out that he had taken money from her and promised her the world along with grandeous stories of his life, stories that seem absolutely ridiculous to me now, but also stories I had fallen prey to. We talked everyday for hours on the phone discussing and confirming things. Every lie seemed to have an element of truth. She got on the internet and started searching for things about personality disorders and so did I, we both came across discriptions of psychopaths and emailed the information to each other. If someone was standing right infront of him they could not have described him any better. The next day I contacted the mental health clinic which he said he had been going to. I was surprised to find out that he had actually gone and the nurse there confirmed to me that she had diagnosed him with psychopatic personality disorder. What a relief to know that I finally knew what was wrong with him. When I confronted him with it he didn't react at all except that he was angry that the nurse had discussed it with me.

Pat
(member)
08/29/02 05:53 PM

When was your lightbulb moment?

Hello everyone:
I started searching the internet many months ago looking for info on "pathological liars" for the young man my daughter was dating just seemed "too good to be true". After reading many of the post on this site, it became apparent to me that she was dating a P. I could, and can, see him exactly in a lot of the posts. It is like all P's are cut from the same mold. The lies, lies, and lies were rampant. 23years old and claimed to have a college degree, Army Ranger, CIA agent, wealthy from a trust fund, owned 2 cars-but never saw them, claimed to have $40,000 income but never had any money, wanted to marry my daughter after knowing her less than a month, but didn't want his family to know. NOTHING added up. Investigating led me to find out that the lies were definetly lies. After going over Dr. Hare's list of psychopath characteristics-he matched up with every single one. He stoled my daughters ATM card and withdrew a very large sum of money at several ATM machines, he was offended when we accussed him and told him we wanted the money back, he has written numerous checks on closed accounts and has never shown any remorse or guilt for his actions. He always built himself up to be a super God, claimed his parents were abusive, refered to his "buddies" and friends yet they were never available to meet. I would have to say that watching the movie "A Beautiful Mind" also made me sit back and think "that is so much like_____". The charm of this young man was so powerful plus the fact that our natural instinct is to trust people, that it was many months before we even suspected who or what we were dealing with.

Pat,

I suppose that you and your daughter had a lucky escape.

I bet those two previous wives would have a tale or two to tell.

I wonder about the fellow's parents- I mean, being so charming, he must have been well brought up. I wonder if there is one parent who is distraught about him, and the other doesn't give a stuff in demonstrable terms. Imagine being the parent that cares.

I read about the percentages of these people, 4% / 1% male female, and I don't believe it. Genders are a mirror, like the population, and I think the females don't get recognised or called to account because of the importantly different way they have to operate.

But I do know a lot of men, that's a fact, who conform to the profile very very well indeed. Lying, even when they know you know they are lying. It is so distressing. But to have one as a son........

Sometimes I think that I am over it, and make brave declarations to my present wife and my daughter accordingly. "I'm finished with all the bulls---" I say. Unfortunately I am not, apparently.

Best regards

Hi BonnyR,

You wrote:
"Genders are a mirror, like the population, and I think the females don't get recognised or called to account because of the importantly different way they have to operate."

I agree. Yes, I have encountered females that display no conscience and no empathy (unfortunately). And who use deceit and manipulation behind a pleasing mask to gain control. That oftentimes very "passive aggressive" or "histrionic" behavior can get overlooked and enabled very easily. Probably many other behaviors, too. I appeciate your bringing up the topic.

As regards your son, I will reply on the Family Forum.

Cherie

BonnyR:
Yes my daughter, myself, and the whole family were fortunate enough to have a lucky escape. She fortunately now lives a very happy life with a husband who is truthful, truly loving and extremely honest. I am sure the two previous wives have many a tail to tell!! The second wife has a young child from the P. That ex wife took all parental rights away from him at the time of the divorce and I know that the first wife did everything in her power to get her "maiden" name back. As for his upbringing-I know that the father left the family when the P was 12 and moved to another city in the same state to work. 12 years later he is still in contact with the family through periodic visitations and still married to the mother.They are a low middle to low class family, no college background. It became apparent that his charm was all a fake front for our behalf since we are a well educated family that is upper middle class. He became someone he really wasn't to fit in with us. He was extremely good at "changing roles". The P held a great hatred for his father and never cared to be in contact with him. The P lived with the mother after getting discharged from the army and was living with her at the time he met my daughter. We never did really figure out what kind of relationship there was between the P and the parents. He always made then sound like non caring, abusive people, but what my daughter witnessed the ONE time she was with the whole family, they all seemed very caring and stated they wished he was around more. We still wonder if they are even aware that he is a P. I came to the conclusion that he isolated himself from the family so that he could "carry out" his cons, deceits, and manipulations without them knowing. The P told me himself that he never shared anything with them regarding his life. To this day we still wonder if the family ever knew about his first marriage. We know that they knew about the second. How difficult it must be for a parent to be excluded from your child's life either due to their choosing or yours, but it must be necessary at times so one can maintain their own well being and health. I know what you mean about dealing with the lies being distressing. This young man was not my son, although at one point I thought he was going to be my son in law, and maintaining a relationship with him after the break up was emotionally and physically draining. You so want to help, but there is no getting through that brick wall.

The lightbulb moment for me was when he said that he hated his parents. i never thought before that there is a difference between having normal conflicts with parents and hating your parent when you are a man of 45 years old.

It took a big one for me to wake up!

I almost lost my life. . .

finished

3 years ago my brother-in-law's counselor whom i shared everything about my life, she even met my p and she told me that he was a p and there is nothing you can do for him
i was thinking that there was something wrong and he could take a pill or something but her diagnosis did not stick to my ribs i kept thinking about a pill he could take and even suggested to him to see a counselor and he thought i wanted to have him put away
he does say that he hates his mom and was living with her and she is a nice person i met her many time he would get violent with her for ridiculous reason she had to call the police on him many times and he would say that he doesn't understand why people are giving him a hard time he was violent to all his other girlfriends some have restraining order
he says that too that he has beaucoup money
he acts poor to see who really love him
and after he gets married he will get the money out

until for some unknown reason a few weeks ago i was looking up the word p on the net and found all these information and the light came on and then it finally hit me and found this group and read the book and i did send him some information about what a p is but not your group testimony and he wrote back (from the prison)that he wants to change but i heard that many time before
after reading everything in your group i decided to get the paper for a restraining order
he was violent with me the last 2 times we saw each other
in public and in private
so after reading you all i decided that i have to make the right decision and i met with the battered women and they told me to wait until he gets out of jail and if he trys to hurt me to call them and they will help me with the paper work
and since i read you advice NO CONTACT i stopped writing him, i stopped visiting him
he called one of our friend asking why my no show
and i don't want to talk to him because he will try to convince me that he loves me and i know it is a lie

we would be in public at a restaurant and he would tell the waitress ain't the wedding ring i showed you beautiful and the girl woul say what?
and there is no ring it is just talking an

i feel sorry for him because i feel that he was born like that and he cannot help it to be the way he is

i remember telling him how he sounds like he does not have a conscience and he cannot stop lying even if he wanted to stop.

my husband and i used to be in a christian community and would help people and now it is so clear to me that we were running into quite a few ps trying to help them out


freedumb
the days are getting closer for him to get out

My lightbulb moment - I was sitting in my office, nothing really going on, and the P. walked by so smuggly and with a type of body language and walk as if he was "IT" and he new it. So secure in who he was and what he was about, too into himself it made me sick. I realized right then and there that I was not happy at that office, so why was I there, then I started to cry. And I got up left my office and came back a couple days later to remove everything from my office. I had threaten many times before, moving home only parts of my office only to return to try it all again. This time I really really left. It has now been 2 months exactly. I really was done. And I hope I never ever feel the need to go try out that crazy way of living again. It is very painful to let go of a dream, of a way of working, no matter how sick I now know it to have been.
This forum has been such a lifesaver, in more ways then one. I come here to read posts as often as I can, to just stay grounded. I don't want to go back, where I was, ever again. And I pray I will have the inner strength to fight off any desire to have that sick P. feel my emotional needs. He does keep me holding on if even just a little tiny tiny bit. Betterway

Betterway

>>This time I really really left. It has now been 2 months exactly<<

Good for you betterway. . .I know that's hard!

>>It is very painful to let go of a dream, of a way of working, no matter how sick I now know it to have been. <<

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

A word that keeps popping up in a lot of the reading I'm doing is "illusion". I think I'm actually beginning to accept that reality. I go in and out of that acceptance but am staying longer "in" (acceptance).

>>And I pray I will have the inner strength to fight off any desire to have that sick P. feel my emotional needs. He does keep me holding on if even just a little tiny tiny bit.<<

Me too betterway. Emotional ties are the hardest to break. Betrayal is shocking and hard to believe even when it is in my face. I'm praying too for the strength and courage to stay P free :-)

I'm so grateful for my friends on the forum.

finished

During a manic attack, and fear of losing my child. Later to find out that the cyber creep was on the prowl. I wanted enough in one state to help get Federal Charges. Plea bargin for guilty. Not fair!
P

Laura wrote:
"It was that Dr. that told him he had possible blackout, stress induced seizure, amnesia, memory loss, multiple personality disorder...

"Knowing what I know now about psychopaths, it is very common for all those things to come into play. A diagnosis of psychopath is, no doubt, a last resort for a psychiatrist after they have ruled out evey other imaginable problem. Also, all the other stuff can equal one psychopath. But it takes time to get there."

I didn't know that. I have yet to read Dr. Hare's book, maybe that's explained there. I've searched online for information to explain my P's seeming "MPD." I'm not saying he has it, but he certainly has symptoms that are similar, and I'd like to find information on MPD-type symptoms in Ps.

My P hears a voice in his head that is, according to him, foul-mouthed, jealous, and extremely violent. Yes, it sounds like he's trying to put off his less savoury characteristics on someone else, but I think there may actually be something to this. He says he's had memory loss too, and been told of doing and saying things he doesn't remember.

Also, when in his early teens, he experienced nightly psychotic episodes: waking nightmares in which his bedroom was transformed into a Hell out of a medieval artist's darkest visions. He still has auditory hallucinations, particularly hearing phones ringing when none are.

If not for the fact that he's been able to work consistently, even running his own business for the past 4 years, I would guess that he's schizophrenic. He's been diagnosed with Bipolar and BPD. Are any of these symptoms consistent with psychopathy?

Hi Patty, I apologize I didn't see your post. Was this a situation where the P was a spouse. Also how did it go trying to get help from the government?

Di

We-ll.................that would depend.

Looking back at those I've known in life, it would have been when I was doing abnormal psychology, had my DSM, and had to make several case dianosis.

In the reality of a moment, before I had the knowledge for a data analysis, that would have been when the subconscious sent alert signals to my brain to click on ALERT---something is not right here, be wary of this person.

I want to comment, however, that the few that I've had to deal with, btw the term is antisocial, were not killers but thieves. They just lied and told stories and said whatever was necessary to get what they wanted.

There are very few types of people in the world that make me furious. One of them are those who are either cruel to animals or misuse animals to advance their ways. The second is the antisocial and, from my experience, the antisocial thief. Granted, given the DSM, both types of people could be related.

But............we see examples of the antisocial thief practically every day. That's the type of person they are depicting on the identity theft commercials. They are up there on the screen, telling how they took the money without a thought for the other person to advance their own, usually vanity, needs. All for them, the world is just there for thier fun, etc. etc. etc..

KM56

I don't agree with Laura that Psychiatrist diagnose Psychopathay as a last resort. They use Hare's diagnostic checklist. If the individual meets the criteria they diagnose, if he/she doesn't meet the criteria they don't diagnose.

Some camps believe that Psychopathy is a genetic condition. Certainly some of the stories on this board reflect the pervasive and enduring callousness and lack of conscience throughout an individual's (P's) life.

Other camps believe that aside from the genetic manifestations, some cases of particulary neglectful and abusive nurture can produce Ps.

MPD is not a core symptom in psychopathic or antisocial personality disorder. Research shows that the etiology of the multiple personalities is via defensive reactions to severe abuse &/or trauma. Of course individuals who are very sensitive to contention can also use alters to deal with difficult situations. If any of you saw UK's Big Brother 5 you could see Stu assuming personalities to shield himself from boredom, and the empathy of having to be unpleasant to his fellow housemates (he assumed an action man persona when he was told by Big Brother to wake them all up). Also notice how quick the show was to intervene when he seemed reluctant to relinquish his cowboy persona...

Well, in common with Hare's descriptions, most of the time, my P can be as congenial as you could wish for (he's too good to be true), when he's around me and he's stable he will drop down into his "softer" & intimate persona, and when he's like that you can't believe he's capable of cruelty. Then something happens, too much or too deep emotional intimacy seems to trigger him to feel vulnerable, and without a word he changes into this ambiently abusive monster, where I get the feeling that my existence aggravates him, and its just a matter of time until he starts behaving psychopathically.

Once he gets like that the only thing you can sensibly do is head for the hills. In a couple of months, he calms down and his soft & intimate side starts to feel isolated and it comes looking for me.

This is the cycling that a lot of us talk about.

So i don't think mine is a genetic case, and I do recognise the lack of a single integrated personality (no integrity or dignity). However I think we all have to be careful not to imply that all who have Multiple Personalities are Psychopaths and vice versa.

I do think this is a very interesting area of discussion as it seems to me most of the stories on this section of the board are more pertaining to non-genetic psychopaths as those seem quite incapable of the emotional investment as is necessary to get someone to be emotionally bonded with you. As it appears that it is through abuse of the dependency that we established on our Ps that we got hurt, and the Ps had invested often considerable time and sometimes money in getting us to that state of dependency, which makes us all feel duped or cheated as well.

KT

I found myself dealing with two psychopaths at the same time. One was my now ex-husband and the other was his lover, whom was at the time of my discovering their relationship also a wanted fugitive for a 17-year-old murder. The "lightbulb" went off when I found a name change document of his lover changing one name for another. The next "lightbulb" went off when after filing for divorce I went to see a doctor for help in dealing with the discovery of my husbands secret life. She asked me if I'd ever seen "The Crying Game" movie. Upon saying no, I was advised by my doctor to rent it, as it reminded her of my husband and the situation he was in. It was then, after watching the entire movie that I realized my husbands lover was a killer and had set his eyes on getting me out of the picture permanently. Getting my doctor to believe me of my discovery and getting the police to believe that I had uncovered an unsolved murder was the worst part. The FBI and police had long forgotten about this murder. I only had the first name of the victim, but no idea where in the US or when the murder took place. The killer knowing I was onto him and living just two miles down the road from me began making desperate hang-up calls to my house. Scared for my life I had to call the police and tell them my situation. Although it was taken as someone in the police dept. pulling a joke, it was checked out and found that I was telling the truth. My ex-husbands lover was arrested for the 17-year-old murder he committed in South Carolina. My ex-husband later admitted to me he used me as a cover for his double life. The biggest shocker was discovering my ex paid for his lovers transsexual operation, this knowing he was wanted for murder. I just wrote a book about my story and hope to get his published someday. When I look back on everything that happened I often wonder how I made it through. I'm lucky I'm here.

Hi Donita,

Welcome to the forum.

WOW - you are lucky as you say and it should be quite some book - let us know when it is out. You sound very strong but this must have shaken you to the core when it went from light bulb moment to opening the can of worms.

hope to hear more from you

good luck
recovery

The likelihood of my book being published is very slim. My ex-husband, now deceased was in the movie business. He was an Academy Award Nominee and Movie Director. His connection was kept silent in the media as Hollywood is not very nice about telling the truth about something like this on the inside. This whole ordeal has pretty much ruined my life and broken me in every way you can think. I'm giving it one last shot at trying to get my book published. Wish me luck.

My lightbulb moment was poignant in the way that it happened. We (the P & I) were sitting watching the OJ trial and someone talked about abusive men and how they are usually controlling, possessive, manipulative, jealous, have angry outbursts and violent tendencies. I realized then that they were describing the man sitting right by me and it was incredibly disturbing. He simultaneously seemed to get that I had made the connection and turned around to me and said in a cajoling voice (that creeped me out) "You don't think I"M like that DO YOU??" Like hell I didn't! That was the beginning of the end for that relationship as far as I was concerned, I didn't need to know more. It solidified my misgivings and dread about marrying him in a way little else could - there was nothing more to debate, I wanted out.

I've always wondered if other women came to similar realizations about their partners at that time. I hoped they did, so that as much positive could come out of something so heinous. If I recall correctly that was one of the first high profile cases that brought attention to domestic abuse and the Jekyll and Hyde nature of those types of men. A silver lining.

Hi Sylvie and Mati,

Glad to see you found solace in talking to each other. It's the best cure of all.

My lighbulb moment happened AFTER I had decided not to see the P again. I knew that he was dangerous for the last time I saw him, he said that he would kill me. We had been discussing an issue of which I KNEW that I was right, but he got very annoyed and argumentative about me having said flat out that he was wrong. I had reached my limit with him and told him off while leaning against the table and saying, " I am so sick of tired of you always having to be right." I have a fiery temper and I must have looked threatening, for he too leaned forward and said, " If you touch me I will kill you."

I got up, so I could defend myself should he become abusive. He too got up and moved towrad me while trying to grab my shoulder. He got a hold a me and tried to shake me. I moved away and he moved with me. I did not say a word. Again, I moved away from him and when he tried to grab me again, something in me snapped. I could myself changing from defensive to offensive mode and I knew that if he tried to hurt me, I would defend myself with everything available to me. I also knew that I could/would kill him. I just stood still in the middle of the room with all my senses sharpened to a fine point. He took one look at my eyes and I could visibly see him deflate. It was very clear that he would not dare take me on. He turned around and sat down. He later told me that he could see the danger in my eyes.

Of course, he then did his whiney thing about me almost giving him a heart attack and how nasty I was, and how inconsiderate and so on and so forth. He just sat there like a little boy with a 'woe is me' expression on his face.

After that I knew that I would never see him again, and I haven't.

It took me a year and a half after that before I caught on to the fact that he is a P. I saw an article in the newspaper about psychopaths and the dime fell. Thank goodness! It made a huge difference to know that I wasn't insane - that all those crazy feelings I had been having had a reason and the reason was the P. He made me into mush. Into a simpering fool, who for four years did not have the guts to say Booh.

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

There's light at the end of the tunnel and now I can see it very clearly and I can laugh and smile and do my day in a loving manner. It's taken me a long time. It would have taken longer had I not found this place.

Nan

Hi Nan,

Yes, it's good to talk about experiences with others who can relate. One thing I'm curious about though is, were these boards more active before? I just get the impression from reading some of the older posts that there was more activity then.

I read the account of your lightbulb moment - glad you got out safely. They hate resistance and the loss of control that implies. Thank goodness for media accounts about Ps for the awareness that they spread.

I too found a great deal of satisfaction at breaking off my relationship. We did get back together for a few months once after that - P was extremely persistent and I guess I allowed myself to think that maybe the time apart had somehow changed him for the better. It's difficult to get your mind around the fact that someone you fell in love with was a P! I don't regret getting back together for a short time because it gave me the opportunity to see him at his absolute unvarnished worst. Rather than being better, he was angry and resentful about being dumped (actually about me asserting myself)and way more passive aggressive. I had also started a new job and career in the interim months, that I absolutely loved and that required me to travel a fair amount. Naturally he hated the independence and freedom that gave me. "My baby is spreading her wings!" Ugh! Anyhow, it gave me the opportunity to dump him twice so that was worth it. No misgivings the second time around, none!

Later,

Sylvie

Hiya Sylvie,

Posters come and go. Right now, there are many people who read but who do not post. Sometimes there is a lot of activity and other times it's slow like molasses and it's anybody's guess what the determining factor is. A few people are away on summer holiday and besides, the summer is not known for being a busy time in most forums.

I think that this type of forum is one where there is a limit to how involved different poster are willing and able to be. It takes time to 'lick your wounds' so to speak and many people both need and want time away from all this pain and suffering. It's healthy to be able to let go of the P issues and get on with life and my guess is that that is what happens to many former members.

As well, some people are just not comfortable with the written word and prefer to stay on the sidelines and just read posts. They too, get something out of the forum. Not everyone can express themselves in writing.

I think what's important is that we all learn something from each other. I have learned a great deal here and each poster, who is willing to communicate her/his story contribute something valuable for someone else.

This 'someone' is a person that we never meet because they do not post. I am convinced that every person posting helps someone else.

I just got home and I haven't had the time to carefully read all your posts, but I get a feeling or sense that you have stopped working altogether. If so, how is that affecting you? You sound like a woman with a strong work ethic and not working (if that's the case) would likely affect you negatively.

Take care,

Nan

Hi Nan,

I thought it might have something to do with summer. Yes, this is all heavy stuff and it can be wearing. It's just an observation that it seemed slower than it appeared previously, from earlier posts. I keep forgetting that there are probably people just lurking. I too am still not entirely comfortable with posting these kinds of things on the internet but to some extent, I'm past caring. If it helps someone in the process then all the better.

About working, I do not work on the corporate side anymore. My profession is fairly specialized and jobs are scarce during the best of times. During the recession they all but disappeared. I have been developing a home-based business (same line of work) but it's a tall order, considering where my confidence is right now. Ironically, I was considered very mentally tough at work.

You're right that I have a strong work ethic. It's interesting that you were able to conclude that through a few posts whereas some relatives who should know that seem to think otherwise. I'm learning to put them on "ignore". That's advice I would give anyone in these situations, cut the negative people out of your life pronto. It's not worth the mental energy and distraction of dealing with them.

I think the loss of my career has been tough, sometimes excruciating, because everything flows from one's livelihood. So you're right, it does affect me negatively. I was fortunate enough to have gotten into a profession that I absolutely love and that put me in touch with some outstanding people. I also relished it because it felt like a major victory after the first P. I've always believed I would get back into it, but lately I'm thinking that it may be unrealistic at least for now, because I'm in worse shape psychologically than I conceded before this. The mind is a funny thing.

The guys I worked with (including P boss) broke a slew of securities laws to the detriment of shareholders. Many corporate scandals have been uncovered in the last few years but this bunch seemed to have slipped under the radar. I'm glad for my independent streak though, I think it served me well in one way, that I wouldn't play ball. There are people at other companies who were pressured to go along with fraudulent activity, did it to keep their jobs (and because they were assured that the senior guys would take the rap!!), and they're now facing jail time. Bad move. These guys are nothing if not sleazy.

I've seen your other post. Thanks for that.

I will respond to you and Mati later.

Sylvie

Hi to all of us here

i haven't wrote in a while
i have been busy trying to get myself into no contact mode
after being in a no contact mode for awhile and messing it up

i finally am doing better but only by a miracle from God
i have been asking God to help me to not see him anymore
because i went back at seeing him only rarely but it was still too much.
I was watching a tv christian show a few weeks ago
i prayed feeling a bit sarcasstic because my heart was still so attached to him and somehow after praying the feeling of wanting to be with him is gone he tried to talk to me in public and was trying to make a scene to scare me so i would change my mind and go with him but i was strong and did not go with him and he left.
He called a few time at 1.30 in the morning but i never answer the phone. The thing i don't understand if he really wants to talk to me why doesn't he call in the day time because i told him at 1.30am in the morning or 5am i am asleep.
I finally am staying really away from him.
He was looking bad everytime i would visit him and after our visit he would clean up and look great and would ask me to drop him around the corner and i got tired of him doing this to me from a guy who love me so much and wanted to marry me
so anyway the joke is over.

I have been reading a lot and other psychopath site to drill in my mind what i am up against and finally it is sinking in by the grace of God i have a strenght that is not of me.

Talking about him right now i still have feeling for him but i am fed up with his attitude toward me
he just wants me for money
------------------------------------------------
i wrote this upper message a few days ago
last night i went to bed really early i get a phone call about 9pm i did not look who called i did not have my glasses on and it was him i did not hang up he wanted to see me, i tell him i am broke because every single time we are together since oct. 1998 i met him it has been "money give me" i tell him if he really loves me i would not have to give him money and he says flat out that he is rich and he is not asking me for money he is acting poor to see who are his real friend Huh! and if i marry him i will see how rich he is, i tell him if i marry you, you will say that i am marrying you for your money so anyway i broke the no contact but i feel strongly that i will not see him and answer his call when i see who it is like i have been doing so good the last few weeks.

When i am not with him my life is so much better
i have a lot of friends but when i am with him people don't want to be around me they are afraid of him he has punched and provoked people that were just talking to me.
So i have plenty light bulbs to see that he is not for real.

It was his birthday august 25 he leaves a message on my phone using someone else's phone (he does not have one) which is long distance and saying that i should have call someone to tell the person to go to him and tell him Happy Birthday now i would not know who to call to do such a thing
because he always tells me do not call back on the whoever's phone he is using to call me.
Just to show you how he thinks which is an impossible situation.

thank you for been here

freedom

Hi freedom, you are a very brave strong woman for resisting this "creature". Baby steps and it looks like you are taking a big leap by your "no contact" mode. I wish you the best and we are always here for you.

Di

Hi freedom

I too give thanks to God for my ability to cope at present. I know that when we trust Him that we will overcome our difficulties. It is a process I think, getting stronger and stronger and there are always times in the beginning when we slip up. But we learn through it and it makes us stronger still. God bless
Mati

Freedom,

I also totally relate to you at the moment.

I'm worried about you because P is seriously messing around with your head. How much you love someone depends on you being financially responsible, being physically and mentally healthy and respecting yourself. How can you do that if someone else is milking you of money to prove how much you love him?

That is an example of P logic. Please leave this P alone and go away and love someone who appreciates your love for what it is, without financial requirements.

Paying someone to value you love is crazy Freedom, please think about it, this P is really making you sound crazy.

My heart goes out to you.

My P has tried to contact me in the last week and he will be here soon... I am trying to steal myself to not give into him and speak or see him.

Keep strong Freedom.

KT

My "lightbulb moment" was basically when my feet started touching the ground again! I honestly felt like I was "floating" for almost a month --before that little "red flags" started going up and I totally ignored them! I was so captivated I didn't care about anything else! I even remember saying to him (when he was complimenting me for the 100th time!) "Even if these are all lies, I feel so awesome - I don't even CARE!" (Of course they were, and I DO CARE - but at the time I was "high" on his FAKE adoration). Yuck. Anyway, I remember one morning when he was prying for information about my past "loves" and when I told him things he got all jealous and angry! I told him "That was LONG before I knew you - 20 years ago!" and he still kept making nasty comments and being like a two year old brat and asking me "Is there anything you want to tell me? )! I felt like I was being violated and bothered. It was then I realized he wasn't playing with a "full deck". There were the other times (after I knew him only a week) and he was meeting me after work but said he wouldn't be able to come until 6 because he was giving his "friend" a ride - I get out of work at 5, so to "kill time" I went to the bathroom, to my car and put makeup on, etc...) I went outside my office to meet him and he was FURIOUS! He said "I can't stay- I have to go!" I was like "WHAT'S WRONG?" He FINALLY after much coaxing and trying to calm him down admitted he was able to get to my workplace earlier than 6 and he came into my office and I WASN'T THERE! (GOD FORBID!) He said "I figured you met someone else and were having a fling with him or something!" I was shocked and confused and just said "ARE you KIDDING ME?" I was just "killing time" and wandering around! It took quite some time before he calmed down and he kept saying how it "wasn't him" to act like that - (but there were MANY other blow-ups and "episodes" that proved THAT WRONG!). BUT, the FINAL STRAW was when I told him I was considering living with my mom for a while until I decided what to do (leave my marriage, kids and HOME - yes I was temporarly "INSANE!!!"?!) and he said "Well, my "room mate" says if I have a girlfriend I should live with HER!" I said "what are you implying, that you move in with ME at my MOM'S?" He was like "Yes, then we could really be together!" WHAT?!?!?! That was when I (FINALLY) realized I was dealing with a lying, manipulative, loser psychopathic JERK! Still, it took almost another month before I was rid of him! (or am I?) I'd love to hear more of these - I hope more "targets" post theirs. Thanks and STAY STRONG EVERYONE!!!

My lightbulb moment occurred about 2 years ago - yes I said 2 years! When I heard the word sociopath for the 1st time I had no idea what they were speaking of but after looking it up I began to fall apart. It was at that second that I realized the man I had been involved with for the past year definitely had all the traits of a sociopathic personality. I believe at that time I must have gone into shock. Eventually I came to terms with what had just transpired - then stupidly became completely engulfed in this person all over again for another 2 years. I finally moved on which is where I am today. The reason for me being here.

Hi jjinatl, welcome to the forum. Interesting that the word sociopath turned on the lights for you. When you are comfortable perhaps you can tell us more of your story. Did you think you would be able to "fix him" once you discovered what you were dealing with?

Di

Hi Dianne - thank you for the welcome to the group! Actually, when I realized what I was dealing with I bottomed out & I think went into shock because I loved him and honestly couldn't deal with the reality of the situation. No, I don't think I thought I'd be able to "fix" him at that moment - that was the 1st time I quit seeing him. Unfortunately, that period didn't last for long and before I knew it I was right back in the thick of it all. The "story" is so....long - but I will write it over the next few days - maybe it will be good therapy? I'll be horrified probably when I see it in black and white. Thanks again for the reply!

I think I had "string" of lightbulb moments.

First about 5 years ago I came across the book HOW TO LIVE WITH A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE MAN. My marriage had almost totally unraveled by then, I was quite ill with infant children to care for (pretty much alone) and I just couldn't get a handle on my Nhusband. I read that book in 2 sittings, in the laundromat, crying. I got online and did some searching and that lead me to THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. In the midst of that, P came back into my life after 27 years (see my story) and during that time my therapist mentioned Narcissism in relation to my estranged Nhusband. We had a sexless marriage in the last few years, and though he blamed me - his behavior in the "intimacy" arena was so odd I needed answers.

P had encouraged me to start my abuse site! And when I read some online stuff about narcissism, I shared it with P. And P told me one day, right out "MY GOD! I am a Somatic Narcissist!!!" I laughed and told him no way. DUH!! He even told me he was more convinced he needed serious help, I gave him some names of therapists - but apparently he did nothing about it at the time. He didn't tell me he was seeing a psychopharmacologist - he positioned it as real therapy. HA HA. He even cried on the phone to me a couple times about how "sick" he was.

I had a lot of red flags but I think THAT was the tap on the shoulder! After that, he started telling me every time he and his wife had relations (TOO MUCH INFORMATION) and then after he started up with my California friend, he was very nasty to me a couple times and accused me of "sexually taunting him" HUH????? Projection.

After it all blew up and I was working on my site I read so much on narcissism - that lead me to Psychopathy. Sometimes I really wonder if he IS P or not but he certainly fits the majority of Hare's criteria.

Hi Di,

Very good question. I had many lightbulb moments, but their power supply was weak, and his manipulations obliterated their light. I guess it took a brick being thrown at me to really "get it"

The real moment of truth that will haunt me to the day I die, occurred many months after trying to convince him to get help, due to his own prior admissions that he was abusive, manipulative and selfish.

3 days after the assault from him which landed me in jail (overnight) on false charges, while I suffered head injury and miscarriage, the P calls me. Trying to explain that he "had to have me arrested somehow, to get him order of protection from me, so that he could be in control of the boundaries of our relationship." He had zero remorse and felt completely justified in what he had done to me and our baby, we were just pawns in his game to be used at his discretion. He had no feelings what so ever in his soul, other than to control and dispute the damage HE had done. With complete LIES to the authorities.

It was a brick, not a lightbulb... one that sent me into the abyss of self hate, for having ever believed a word he had ever told me. I was ashamed for all the lies, manipulations and turpitude he had destroyed my entire life with. I withdrew and knew no way to end the heartache & pain than to releave the world of such a pathetic woman. And I descended into a hell on earth that I did not know existed. I could not believe I had spent so much of myself on such a monster.

My real lightbulb was when I found this site, and realized it was not me, that I never had a chance. I thank God every day for all of you, your courage to post with such honesty, and your ability to offer support while you all endure nightmare p's of your own.

This site was my lightbulb that has stayed bright & will make me free from P's forever more.

Love,
stunnedhun23

Dear StunnedHun23: I LOVED reading this post! I totally agree with you - about this site being a lightbulb! You sound great and I hope things are going better for you. You are right about all the people who post here. They (we) have been to hell and are now back to earth and working on getting to heaven by doing the next right thing and staying P-free! There is no way we can have peace as long as the P's are in our lives. Mine hasn't quite given up yet, but I will not allow him to weasle his way into my life EVER AGAIN! There is nothing he can do or say to make me change my mind. I don't even pity him - I'm just repulsed by him. There is no room in my life for pathological liars, cheaters and manipulators. Anyway, good to hear from you. Keep posting! Love, Tiasa XOXOXOXO

Many lightbulbs went off for me all those years ago during my marriage to my 'P', but i like hon's description -- they were weak.

Light one: one year into our relationship he forced (I wasn't too hard to make compliant then) me to call some people he had scammed and lie to them to delay legal action. I remember how I felt, dirty, shamed and sick. I was pregnant and far from home and felt trapped.

Light two: when moving to another town he left me with a friend of his who I didn't know, to see an old girlfriend who had a family heirloom of his to pick-up. He admitted she was an old flame, but said he had no feelings for her. He left me in this strange house in a strange town with no way to leave, for eight hours with no explanation when he returned, just a wide smile like he had just gone out to get a box of donuts ten minutes ago. The feelings of entrapment (that was the same year and pregnancy as above) made me physically ill for the rest of the trip to our destination.

light three: when he told me once "I think I could kill someone and not feel anything, nothing at all." That was when we were first going out. He was always reading Soldier of Fortune mags until I told him I thought they were stupid and for geeks. God, what a loser!

Light four: when one of his girlfriends told me he was telling everyone that I liked living in a house with no running water or electricity and that I didn't want him to get a job. The only thing I couldn't believe more was that this woman twice my age believed him!

Light Five and I guess one the most frustrating and constant: He had shallow effect because he felt nothing inside, nothing mattered to him but scheming and lying. I finally realized that is why he could care less about things that "normal" people are concerned about. it was almost as if he was dead inside and seducing women, lying, stealing and conning were the only ways he felt alive. I learned the thrill and triumph he felt when he felt he had something over on someone.

I learned to use his sick behavior to my advantage. Of course he wasn't violent and my heart goes out to women who have to deal with violence as well. I had a violent father so I always had a radar out to avoid hyper aggressive men. But cons are another story.

I still can find myself drawn to them.

Its a charge almost, like being able to actually step up and stroke the lion in its cage without waking his waking up and gobbling you up right there.

My light bulb moment: I was listening to talk radio, I heard a preview for an interview with an author [I believe Martha Stout] about psychopaths. I thought that it sounded interesting so I listened. She was listing characteristics and I just knew.... I went immediately and checked the internet for more info. This happened only about 1 month ago.

I am married to a P for 8 years. There was always problems in the marriage and during fights I even called him "psycho" on many occasions.

I had no idea what a psychopath really was. I always assumed psychopaths were really "crazy".

Hi Heather,

Welcome to the forum!!! It is so shocking when you first realize there is a definition for what you are experiencing. And even more shocking to learn that there is no therapy or cure.

I saw your post asking about premature babies, and it reminds me of my exploring the effects of religon (or should I say a cult) on my P. I still spend time trying to figure out how and why he is that way, but the last lightbulb for me released my guilt at wanting him OUT of my life for good. Yes, I felt guilty giving up on him, how sad is that? I am a nurturer and a fixer, and believed prior to the now BRIGHT LIGHT that I could help him and that HE was the victim. What a twisted reality. It was and sometimes still is very difficult for me to imagine existing without a conscience.

Are you still married to your P? If so are you safe? Do you have children? Sorry for so many questions, but many here have been in the same situation, and the safety of you & your family is priority number one. We all are here to support you through this, whatever your specific path may be.

I hope you are strong & well and that validating your experience helps heal the wounds.

Sending you welcoming hugs ~

StunnedFunHun23

I have a hard time expressing myself in words, so please bear with me if I don't make sense at times.

Yes I am still married and I do have 6 young children. I live here with him but I don't have the emotional attachment, like I used too. I gave up on him and the marriage or any love last October.

Now I know he is a P it explains so much. I haven't told him what I know. It makes it easier to deal with. He said 2 things to me in the last 2 days that I thought were the strangest things. He first said "You are so blond and beautiful, you are my target." He said it like a compliment, very sweetly. I didn't reply but I made a mental note. Target of what, is what I want to know? I never would have noticed anything strange before. Then he said last night, "Did you ever think that when you met me you let a vampire into your life?" Didn't say anything, just made a mental note.

I wonder if I leave him if I will have to deal with him every weekend because of the kids. Somedays I pray that he would just die so I don't have to deal with him terrorizing me for the rest of my life. He is like a mental terrorist.

I feel more safe being here knowing where he is. He is not really violent. Although he says things like "If I want to beat you up I could." About 2 weeks ago he was punching the air beside me without touching me. He likes to fist fight men that cross him.

I am 29 and he is 32 now.

Another thing, he is a workaholic so he is usually gone most of the week. He also works night shift so during the weekends he stays up all night and sleeps until 3 in the afternoon. I avoid him as much as possible.

Thanks for the welcome,
Heather

Hi Heather, I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for posting. I think you have a wonderful way with words- you actually expressed yourself very well! I have been sitting here with my mouth hanging open with what your "P" husband said to you "You are so blond and beautiful, you are my target." - I mean he actually TOLD you that! and "Did you ever think when you met me you let a vampire into your life?" There is actually a book about these creeps out there called "Emotional Vampires" by Albert Bernstein:

"Bernstein provides a field guide to the various types of Emotional Vampires and advises readers how to protect themselves from being victims of these predatory personalities."­­Boston Globe

From bestselling author Albert J. Bernstein

The author of Dinosaur Brains offers protection from people who seek to destroy the emotional and psychological well-being of others. Like the fabled demons, these vampires:

Think their needs are more important than yours
Believe "the rules" apply only to other people
Use their tempers in the same way terrorists use bombs
Emotional Vampires tells readers how to spot a "vampire" in their lives, which defense strategies to employ to prevent one from striking, and what to do if and when they find themselves under attack.

From the Back Cover

"If I'd had a copy of this book when I started therapy, I might have saved myself a lot of time and money. Bernstein provides a field guide to the various types of Emotional Vampires and advises readers how to protect themselves from being victims of these predatory personalities."­­Diane White, The Boston Globe

Emotional Vampires: They're out there . . . masquerading as ordinary people. They may lurk in your office, your family, your circle of friends; perhaps they even share your bed. Chances are, you know all too many of them. Bright, talented, and charismatic, they win your trust, your confidence, and your affection­­then drain you of your emotional energy. But take heart as you walk through the darkness, it doesn't have to be that way­­the more you know about vampires, the less power they have over you.

Here Dr. Albert J. Bernstein, vampire-slayer and author of the best-selling Dinosaur Brains and Neanderthals at Work, reveals the secrets that will protect you once and for all. Detailing a whole range of personality types and human responses, Bernstein shows you how to spot the "vampires" in your life: self-serving Narcissists, hedonistic Antisocials, exhausting Paranoids, or over-the-top Histrionic drama queens. And, with valuable advice, psychological perspective, and much-needed humor, he gives you a range of defense strategies that are guaranteed to keep the blood-sucking creatures of darkness from draining you dry.

By the end of Emotional Vampires, you'll be armed with superior knowledge, a treasure chest of vampire-slaying tools, and all the confidence you need to take on the most draining people in your life and win without shedding the first drop of blood.

I've been wanting to read it. It's true P's are very much like vampires - they suck everything possible out of their "targets"... (money (and any valuable possesions), love, sex, confidence, self respect, health, dignity, pride, faith, etc...) You are VERY smart not letting him know what YOU know! It could definitely backfire - so be very careful.

I was lucky to "escape" "my" P before things got too involved, but I am positive that it would've led to disaster if I continued with him. Just those 2 things your husband said reminded me so much of the things the creep I knew would come out with! For instance, he has said "You're the most beautiful blue-eyed blond I ever knew" I said "I bet you've said that to many women" and he said "Yeah, but so far, you're my favorite" (Was that supposed to make me feel "SPECIAL"!?) There were many more things that proved he wasn't thinking like a "normal" man. I am very glad to hear he hasn't been violent, but PLEASE be careful, because P's are capable of anything. I'm not trying to scare you - I just want you to be AWARE - and he sounds like he likes to use his fists. "Mine" was the same way... he LOVED pro-wrestler's (which I absolutely HATE!) and he often bragged about what a great fighter he was, how strong his arms are, and often said "I outta spank you" or "slit your throat!" I used to laugh it off, never thinking he could possibly be serious! But, who knows? Scary.

I understand your wishing he would "just die"... it would be easier to "deal" with him, wouldn't it? But, there is help out there if you need it. How long have you been married, and when did it occur to you that he was a P?

Anyway, we are all here for you and will help answer any questions we can and support you through this. Please keep posting. Stay strong.

Love, Tiasa

I have been married 8 years and I just realized that he was a P recently. I knew that he always had problems, especially relating to his mother still and he won't let go of that relationship.

He has probably always given me the hints and clues about who he is but I never picked up on any of it.

I don't feel like I have an addiction to him. I realize that he is messed up and not me. I don't feel any love for him. But I still feel trapped by the humiliation.

He called today and said he won't be home until tomorrow because of work. I am glad I don't have to see him.

I told him that I didn't love him the first time, I was scared to death of his reaction. [This was about 6 months before I knew he was a P] He didn't do or say much. It was like I finally had the freedom.

I get the impression he wants to see how long it takes before I take the next step. Like it is a game for him, a human experiment, watching me suffer and timing my reaction.

I did have something very strange happen to me the other day, we were talking. He said I should be happy that I have a man that would give me so many children. I had a miscarriage with another man about 6 months before I met him 10 years ago. [I believe now that the other man was a P too, I saw him for a few days after that, then he just dissappeared out of my life.] But anyways, my current P brought up the micarriage as a means to hurt me and I had absolutely no reaction. That gut wrenching pain that he likes to inflict did not happen. It was the strangest thing for me. I cannot describe what a profound moment it was for me.

I have added the book Emotional Vampires to my wish list.

Hi Heather, Thanks so much for posting. I'm glad you are standing your ground with your P. I'm sure it's very difficult since he is the father of your children (and still your husband). Do you think he is faithful to you (P's are known to have "others")?

Shame on him for trying to hurt you by bringing up your miscarraige... it's like he's patting himself on the back for "giving you children" as if that fetus was "defective" because it wasn't HIS! (Typical Narcissist!) How are the children with their dad? Are they close? Is he a "good father"?

I'm sorry for asking so many questions - just curious and trying to tell how difficult it might be to "break free".

It sounds as if you have a good, strong, wise head on your shoulders. Please check back with us - there is AWESOME advice given here by those who have "walked in your shoes".

Love, Tiasa

I believe he is faithful because he loves to brag to me about the women in his past. He also tells me about all the women that are attracted to him at work and almost anywhere he goes. He has this weird thing about "telling the truth" about absolutely everything, he cannot keep his mouth shut about any secret. But on the other hand he has also told me he would say anything at all to save himself from the police.

He is a workaholic so he is only with the kids no more than a couple hours a day. He treats them like slaves, doing almost everything for him until he leaves again. He tells them he loves them and kisses and hugs them. The oldest kids are 8 and the rest are younger. After he leaves they say things like "Dad is so lazy, he never does anything for himself." He doesn't do much punishing of the kids, he wants me to do it, I think so he can look like the nice parent. He does seem to get mad about the stupidest things too, like spilled milk, I am always telling him to chill out.

I have no idea how to break free, it seems impossible with all the children because I am sure the courts would grant him visitation of some kind. Even if I leave I will still be stuck with him.

Hi Heather, So nice to hear from you! I've been thinking about you, and hoped you'd post again! I understand exactly what you are saying about breaking free. It is SO HARD when children are involved, but it is possible. However, I am STILL with my husband (he's not the psychopath I was involved with, but he has his own "issues"! and our marraige isn't great) even though I realized our marraige was "rocky" for the past 12 years. We tried separating, but it was rough on ALL of us, and the kids love us equally and it wouldn't be fair to split for our own selfish reasons. I don't believe in "staying for the sake of the children" as a "rule" but if life would be WORSE for everyone involved by splitting up, then it makes sense. None of these decisions are easy!

In a way, you're lucky your husband is a "work-a-holic"... the P I was involved with hardly EVER worked - he is a typical "gigolo, parasitic" user/loser that comes across as the best thing since sliced bread! (He's a REAL charmer!) But, not only is your husband GONE a lot of the time (which, under the circumstances is probably better, even though it is hard to do everything yourself!) but he also contributes money (MANY P's do NOT... they just TAKE, TAKE, TAKE!!!)

I could so relate to your P "bragging about women in his past" and "telling me about all the women that are attracted to him everywhere he goes"... "mine" did the SAME THING... and often he would "apologize" (without true feeling) about "making me jealous" but he thought it would make me "love him more!" (WEIRD, or WHAT!?!?!?!)

Anyway, my dear, I know it's a difficult situation for you. At least your kids see him for what he is "lazy and never does anything for himself!"... typical, typical, typical!!! I'm sure if you end up going for a divorce, the fact that the kids are with YOU most of the time (plus the fact you're the mother!) works totally in your favor of full custody. As far as visitation, you don't have to actually face him if you don't want to... do you have a friend or relative that could bring the kids to him? (Or be there when he picks them up?)

I'm not suggesting you should leave him, as you know, that's totally a decision you need to make for everyone involved. Just putting in my thoughts for whatever they're worth!

Please keep posting... we're here to help.

Sincerely, Tiasa

Thank you for responding, you are so intuitive.

I am okay, not P free, but okay. The kids are starting school in less than 2 weeks and I am busy getting things ready for them. I am a stay at home mom with only 1 child not in school this year.

My husband always tells me how good looking he is, he doesn't seem that good looking to me. Seriously, I don't get this.

I feel like I am surrounded by P's or borderline P's. My husband tells me about his friends and family and alot of them fit the profile. Not everyone in his family but it seems "all" of his close friends are.

I started my own home business in 1999 and he just about lost it because he has such a fear that I will get rich and leave him. He just spends any extra money we have on useless "stuff". He gets really paranoid when I go shopping by myself because I might meet someone... Everything I do on my own is a threat of me leaving, in his mind. I just tell him to stuff it. I am not very nice to him but he seems to be like a parasite that depends on me to survive. He is also very jealous of my education and gets very hostile when anybody talks about it.

He also mentioned something about me "embarassing him" by getting a divorce. Like a threat, I better not embarass him or else... I always ask him "Or what?" in a really rude voice. He never has an answer.

Just me rambling, have a great P FREE day/night/weekend!
Heather

I do not know if I have a Lightbulb moment? My councellor informed me of her beliefs only 2 weeks ago. The more I read the more confused I get. Can Psychopaths be women?
I have read alot about men but not women. I called my wife a P about 4 months ago after she vented pure anger at me for what felt like forever. I said your acting like a p and she has never forgiven me for it and she keeps bringing it up all the time. I still can't tell her what my councellor has said and she has advised me to seek advice from other victims but I'm a man. Are men victims?

I have an N and a P in my life right now.

my "light-bulb" moment came first with N, then as I
researched the problem, I nearly fell off my chair
when it dawned on me that P maxed out on the
Hare check-list of P traits.

with N, I was struck
by the awesome scale of the LYING. factual lies having
minimal emotional content, and emotional lying.

whenever he wanted something from me, he would feign friendship, collegiality, whatever, I would help him, out, thinking -- hey!! we're FINALLY making some progress here.

then I would cap off the interaction with a little social
chit-chat, and he would have this out-pouring of Hatred
that bowled me over.

where had I heard of people who were such AMAZING liars?

I _had_ heard of such fantastic liars
before, and was soon reading Hare, Clecky, and anything
else I could get my hands on.

One day I was in a meeting with N, while his sponsor (PM) was on holiday, and out of cell contact. N reacted with
such fear, at being left alone with me that I decided
that he couldn't be a P, and my research turned down
the N path, with Sam Valkin, and others.

my lightbulb moment with P came when an aquaintance
remarked "Oh, well P really likes V" and I was
thunderstruck that I had NEVER seen P give V ANY form
of recognition, or affection in public WHATSOEVER.

more research revealed that this is how hard-core swingers
and pimps control multiple women. no public recognition,
therefor other women can't tell he's "taken".

P was actually able to "date" several women on the
project under V's nose, because while P and V were
together constantly, his public behaviour of no
recognition, no affection led these other women to
conclude P and V weren't romantically linked.

-WK

ninety-nine
(member)
08/31/05 11:34 AM

Hopefull reminded me of my lightbulb moment. My husband decided to be an Episcopal preist despite the fact that it wasn't good timing for the family-two kids in college and a house to sell. When the kids found out it became quite an issue, but money and tuition never came up. All four kids came to me separately and said,"But Mom, Dad's not even nice to me, he can't be a preist!" I thought it was just me! It turned out to be a pattern of isolation going on.

He would say nasty things to them in private and create conflicts within the family so that one person wouldn't talk to another person, or think another person liked them because he had bad-mouthed a family member in one way or another. But the preist process continued. When his psychological evaluation came back he left it on the kitchen counter so we took a peek.........He said his parents were dead(vey much alive in New Jersey), that he had passed the bar(he has an engineering degree), that his
undergrad was prelaw(math), and that his brother lived in California(Boston). A guy like this should not be influencing people.

I started fighting against the preisthood and low and behold, he became a dirty fighter, kicking me out of the house, influencing the kids against me, blocking doorways so I couldn't get through, shaking his fists at me. I wound up in therapy, unable to lift my head, staring at the ground session after session. After hearing a few more stories my therapist said my husband was a sociopath........to tell you the truth, I have been warned before so that was my lightbulb moment. He never made seminary, by the way, he was cutting down a tree and the last limb fell on him. In the hospital for a week....it gave me a chance to notify the seminary of who they were really getting.

My Lightbulb moment:

1. When I read the book "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissist..." I realized immediately when I began reading it that he is a narcissist.

2. When I read the book "The psychopath Next Door". I realized immediately when I began reading it that he is a Psychopath.

Both books offered signs to look for, he is so bad that he has every trait, every sign to look for that is listed in both books. I just couldn't deny it, even if I wanted to.

I always knew he was not a good person. I always knew he was a drunk, a drug user, a liar, a cheater, a criminal, and a thug. It was at this point that I was officially able to label the lunatic.

I had mine about 2 mos ago I had watched a show on tv an something ccicked an I started researching everything I could fine.It scared me but let me know I am not crazy an et. et. I have been married 21 years an loved my husband very much but he started on our wedding breaking me down an sucking the life out of me .I fought an stood my ground but my health has suffered an I have become a recluse.All my friends see me trough his eyes an he is so wonderful an kind.I almost died once I could not take his lack of empathy an love.At first he said all the right things but I noticed a lack of interest in my children an a delight in watching them bend to his control.He would get a twisted smile onhis face when he pushed me to far an I eould cry and be angry .He likes control .He buys groceris .holds money an only gives me 20 or 5 if I could work now it would be betterbut I have been disabled for 12 yrs.My value in his eyes is gone except that by being married he has more acceptable friends to do things with an he gets there pity for having a crazy wife.I am now 61 an will draw a check in a few mos an I see his wheels turning.I Paid in so I would have a home but If I go I give up my home an my values.I see he could be good but he does not know how to love or know feelings except for his wants needs.I pity him now .I have to let go of the bitterness an anger but it is hard.I feel good about this site .I have noone yjat can understand or help me .

Hi Dianne,
When I tried to use my bank card it was suspended. I found out my own husband had emptied my/our account a few days before.
He had a court date and paid his collections account with my savings. He had me put him on my account just prior to his court date so he could have gas money,buy groceries(his claim). He did not feel remorse. He did not concern himself with the financial burden that followed. He did not apologize. He got agitated with my questions. He justified himself and his actions. He said "I got tired of them bugging me. You should have gave them your phone number". The debt was his,not our shared debt. It was thousands of dollars. It was devastating to me,my family. He shrugged it off.

Psychopath was fighting me for custody of our children. Actually wanted the right to tell them I was dead.
Said I could NEVER be in there life again if I left him.
Met his older kids. Found out Psychopath took them young,(kidnapped) did tell them their mom was dead. Major trauma for them. Psychopath says if you break with me...your are treating your kids like you are dead.
Was a lie that caused so much emotional damage to them.
They were reunited with their very alive mom.

I think I just answered a motivator persona.
I must have been in his imposed grandma,mold-drama when we split up.
She only left him forever because she did die.

For the last four years he faked having cancer. He said he couldn´t cover his rent and other bills because his roommate scammed him. I ended up giving him money to pay certain expenses. I felt so bad that someone experiencing "cancer" had to go through the abuse of others. The light bulb moment should have been how secretive he was about having this disease. Poor thing was always too tired to do anything with me or for me. He made me feel like the worst thing on the planet if I ever thought about myself. I couldn´t go out. I stopped seeing my friends. My life revolved around trying to help him through this illness while being kept at arm´s length. Turns out, he was never sick. When he was getting way too verbally abusive, I told him I needed some time to heal myself in order to be there for him since things were out of hand in the relationship. He sent me pictures pointing a gun to himself, telling me he´d kill himself if I left him. Two weeks later, pictures were up of him and a mutual acquaintance in Miami, partying like they were teenagers and making out. All this time he was cheating on me and used the money I gave him for "his doctor appointments and rent" on her. After 10 years of dealing with all his lies, cheating, and other abuses, I was grateful this happened. Now he is out of my life for good and I can start my healing process.

Hi LZ28,
Wow,you have such a great attitude after such bad experiences.
That is such abusive Psychopath behaviors.
I really feel for you and what you have been through.
Those head games are cruel.
Then you find out he was fine all along.
Suicide threats,photos make it all worse.
I am so glad to hear you are beyond him.
Good for you!

I realized it when the marriage counsellor we had - who was trying to help him transition out of our relationship, said I am glad you are getting out, there is something about him. I truly believe he is a psychopath, but I would need allot more time with him to determine that for sure, and there is no way he is going to let me have it or let me in. All I know is you do NEED to get out. This guy would make a great case study for someone. that was 8 years ago now- hard to believe it.
and The trigger that got me to leave - was not his stealing money (oh sorry borrowing with no intention of ever paying it back because they have it to give or everything has been handed to them) from me and everyone we knew.. it was when my 7 year old came out to the garage with me and I started cleaning up crushed popcans, and he got upset with me and told me that I couldn't throw those out because daddy used those to smoke with and proceededto explain in detail how daddy used these cans. YUP he was smoking drugs with my 7 year old around and that was IT.

I had been trying to break up with my Psychopath for a year-he kept sucking me back in with the empty promises and saying just the right things I was dying to hear.
Ive been in therapy trying gain the confidence and strength to get rid of him when I began writing down all the things I hated about him and the things he would do to me. After looking at the list I remember thinking that this was a piece of a puzzle so I Googled the terms I had written and got pages and pages referring to psychopathic behavior. It scared me, it saddened me and gave me some strength.
I still cant get away though. Ive been close twice but keep getting sucked right back in because it seems now that negative attention from him is better than no attention at all. He is So good at just the right words and I am in a very unhappy marriage. I cant seem to break free from either one. But I am still in therapy, still praying everyday for God to show me the Truth and give me the Strength to handle it with integrity.
Amy

Hello BeenHad,
Your post has put your strength and courage in words.
It takes a special person to describe a situation in which they are dependent on negative attention.
Everyone has received some form of negative attention.
It is difficult for people to own it.
Good for you, taking the step,owning negative attention.
You are in a bad marriage?
What does that mean to you?
You are seeing a Psychopath.
You have identified the negative.
Have you identified the positive?
What does that mean to you?

Perhaps your self holds some clues.
Did you have a life of divided attention?
If so you are more comfortable with divided situations.
Are you carrying emotional guilt to balance life?
If you could set the emotional guilt down and carry yourself,your ego how would it feel?
Would it feel empty hands or heavier then emotional guilt?
If you own the emotional guilt you must care for it before you put it away.
If it is not yours you must leave it for the lost and found box.
Someone else is looking for it to complete their life journey,story.

Sometimes people have two mates to fulfill the two parent, parent and step parent need/absent role.
If there was an emotional need that did not get filled from the primary parent who had made us feel
their relationships had priority over us then we let our own relationships have priority over us.
We try to mend. People naturally try to mend through emotional responses.
What emotional response is triggered in you through your relationships?
Anger,hate and confusion are all apart of fear.
Fear is at the core of each of us.
Some contain it better then others.
Some find creative outlets.
Others destructive ones.
If we destroy ourselves we confirm our deepest fear.
We have told ourselves "NO".
We stop right there.
Life goes on with us wearing out our brakes.
We have to be pushed,pulled through life because our brakes are locked("No")
No is a powerful word,action and feeling of self power.
Eventually we will "brake" down because we need to flow,roll with life.
Life is fluid.
Life is the essence of change.
Say yes to change,let the brake off in your life.
You have today.
It is your day.
You are special.
You have a special place in life.
Others are looking for you to get there.
You are on your way there now.
Ask yourself,remind yourself of..
How I feel today,now....
How I will feel,ask me then,that day.
How I felt yesterday? Do I really know.Yes/no/maybe.
I have today,this is how I feel today.
Today matters most of all.
Today I feel happy because...
Today I feel good because....
Today I feel lonely because...
Today I feel sad because.....
Today I learned......
Today I experienced......
Today I shared............

Tomorrow..... I will answer that tomorrow.

Take good care,nurture your changes.
They will nurture you.

Beenhad- I had those moments more than once. It took me 9 years to leave, everytime I would try he would do something "wonderful" and I would get sucked back in- it took a very dark moment for me to realize just how much I needed to get myself and my son away from this man. I needed to get away for my son it was what gave me the strength to get out. I don't have allot of advice for you, I just wanted you to know I have been where you are and I truly know how hard it is to make that transition because they can be so charming when they need to be.
I think you have made a great step in knowing what he is and knowing really can give you all the power you need to get out.

Good luck to you

I think it is the Passion between us I cant seem to let go of. I am in a sexless marriage and sex never was good for us. I was a virgin when we got together. Funny, all my friends who had sex in high school regret it and I regret not having it...But the Passion is magnetic and not just sexually...in everything we do together, traveling, hobbies, games, etc. I keep thinking...How can I give that up? And I cant stay away...Yet hes killing me, slowly and its wreaking havoc on me physically, mentally and emotionally...I want to get away, but yet...I dont. How do I survive this?

BeenHad, I completely relate to your story.

I very recently realized that the on-and-off, quasi-relationship that I've been in for over two years is likely with a psychopath. I'd in the past realized that he must have some sort of mental disorder, but the word "psychopath" wasn't in my mind (or vocabulary, really) until recently.

I was listening to this episode of This American Life, titled "The Psychopath Test." Many of the checkpoints mentioned as part of Hare's work sounded familiar, but one really stuck out to me and was a definite lightbulb moment. Someone mentioned that one of the checkpoints for psychopathy is a parasitic lifestyle. I'd never heard it phrased this way before, but this is a very strong aspect of this man's personality.

He has been homeless off and on for the last three years - by choice, not out of necessity. In that time, he'll sleep on friends' (I use this term loosely) or acquaintances' couches and basically receive whatever help or support he can from the network of people he's built up - though, oddly, rarely his family. He frequently admits to using others for drugs, sex, food, or to do work for him in whatever capacity necessary - he's always working some scheme to make money. He hasn't had a "real" job in three years, and makes money in unconventional ways (mostly buying things cheaply and reselling them.)

A few months after we started hanging out, I realized that every time he got ahold of me, it would be to do something for him, whether it was to bring over weed for us to smoke, buy weed from him, sell weed to him, bring him food, bring him some random thing, drive him somewhere, etc. I was young and I really liked him (and I could afford it and had nothing better to do) so I'd often give in.

Many times he would assert that he was just using me and the other people in his life for the things that they did for him. I never really believed him - how could he spend so much time with me and (sporadically) do so many nice things for me not care at all? - but now, reading about psychopathy and reading all of your posts, it makes sense. I'll probably post another, longer topic fully detailing the situation later. But to get back to my initial point, hearing the phrase "parasitic lifestyle" was when it all clicked for me.

Hi, welcome to our communinity. Will look forward to the rest of your story.

With information you can make the best decision.

Sounds like you have found out in time to rid yourself of this before it is too late.

Di

Thanks! I'm happy to have found a place where people can understand what I've gone through with him ... it's always seemed to go beyond most of my friends' boyfriend problems.
I do feel that I've found out before it's too late ... I am in my early 20s and I realize that I have a lot of life ahead of me. Still, though, I have invested so much time in him and have so much love for him and I still find myself going back to him when I know I shouldn't ... sometimes it feels that I won't rid myself of him before it's too late. Or, that I will and won't really want to. Anytime I've tried to cut him out of my life, I've ended up more miserable than I was with him in it. But it's like the stakes keep being raised - he'll do something nicer or something more than anything he's ever done, then we'll fall out over something worse than he's ever done before. Then we won't talk for a few weeks, I'll get lonely and drunk or he'll get horny and one of us will contact the other and start the cycle over again. I hope that someday I'll be strong enough to be able to happily walk away, but I don't know if I'm there yet.

I, too, am writing a book on my life with a Psychopath. I have published before (non-fiction) but THIS is a story that ]must be told. NO One believes that you (I) was with a Psychopath. Mine grew up in 90201 or about. Perfect family, perfect life.............was I fooled.

Write your book.I will write mine. It is no contest. SOMEONE has to make a best seller or screenplay(Gaslight is outdated, but I was gaslighted, as were we all)

My theripist and attorneys said I should write it. Of course no one would believe it. How do you write about the pain of fraud 23 years of prostitution and financial ruin), lies, physical and mental abuse, child alenation, gut wrenching tears, left with no money and yet EVERYONE BELIEVES HIM? AND HE WON IN COURT MANY TIMES.
The book is really not about him. IT IS ABOUT HOW IT HAPPENED TO ME, a smart cookie who lived in the Apple for years.
I have no one ( hopefully daughter will come back) so I have to write it for US! You write it too.

best wishes to us both.
I am new here but happy (and sad) to find similar.

I wish the writers well and hope they become best sellers. This problem needs light shown on it.

I tried everywhere to get help but people just can't grasp how serious this is an the extent of the damage done in such a relationship and for some reason no one believes you/me. I sat in a Real Estate office just a few weeks ago and the realtor was telling me she knew my SB, and how he trustworthy he is. She was telling me, from my point of view, what is wrong with this picture? It happens all the time, no one ever believes he's capable of anything bad.
I hope in your books you point it out, their ability to con anyone.


Murphy

What if your parent was a psychopath? The damage inflicted on the children of psychopaths is devastating.

Who loves someone who aggressively tries to kill their soul? That's what a psychopath does to their children.

Hi takesanocean, I would encourage you to try and set a no contact, if for no other reason remind yourself you are sleeping with everyone else he is sleeping with and we all know they have many partners. Keep up posted, don't let yourself get trapped by when he comes back extra nice, that is just trick to get what he wants.

Di

Besides, how will you ever attract a healthy partner with someone like this in your life?

Oh my god.. how do children learn to deal with people like this? I can't believe it.

I had one big lightbulb and a series of little ones...

It was the week of my final exams for university. I told him I needed time to work at it. He said he'd be sending me nice 'light' emails that week and encouraging things. I think it was in return for the sleepless nights I had spent consoling him before his exam (which he of course didn't fail to mention he got 99% in. Yes, all that anxiety, eh? and you get 99%?). I didn't really need 'light emails' from him; I just needed time to study for myself. I have had a long history of difficulties with uni because I have an eating disorder. This exam meant a lot to me because I didn't turn up to the exam of the same subject the year before, and it was a way of proving I could do it to myself. Nevertheless, instead of sending me 'light emails', he brought up that I was apparently distancing myself from him, saying it with a pout, a sigh etc. He was also expressing that he was becoming more and more anxious and having more problems. This particular week of my exams his problems escalated. Whereas in the vice versa occurance, I was having problems the week of his exam (and essentially the whole time I knew him) but I never guilt tripped him over not helping me with it, or brought issues up at crucial moments in his week. I'm not perfect, but damn, isn't this how healthy people operate? who continues to lay on their problems to someone in the one week where they need to focus on something for their own self? who says they'll do something but end up doing another? actually undermining them, but prefacing their behaviour as being helpful!?!

I suddenly realised that this was not the first time he offered support but never gave it (it was a recurring theme several times a week), and instead had all my attention and focus on his needs. When he did it at the point of my exam, I suddenly woke up and realised I had to say no to him. His anxiety was inflaming my own anxiety, and I ended up feeling a surge of anger that I couldn't quite explain (i'm not that comfortable with anger). I suddenly shut him out at that point and was distraught. I didn't think it at the time or carefully consider it, but my immediate gut feeling was that I was being guilt tripped and manipulated. My feelings were all over the shop and I ended up only studying the day before, having spent the rest of the week trying to avoid everything and being utterly confused.

I couldn't believe I had again, almost sacrificed my university course and place to which I have struggled tooth and bone to even remain at university, for this one man who I had been attached to for 4 months. And he knew it. And never apologised for it. I was losing myself to him; his erratic moods were contagious because they always flared up when I needed to work on myself. Damn right I felt angry at someone, more than I had ever felt in my entire life. The entire time with him, my eating disorder became worse, I lost interest in studying and I developed worse anxiety. This was during that phase where he was courting me! being "generous" (offering extreme examples of support, but never following through... damn, I only just realised this :\). I mean, I don't have much relationship experience at all, but that doesn't sound healthy to me at all. I felt anxious around him even when he was being 'nice'. I just realise I had four months of generalised anxiety that whole time I was with him... no wonder I couldn't let him in.

imagine if I had stayed around longer! he even hinted at being together in person (which he was subtly pushing for, at about 3 months in. So much happened in these months it didn't seem like too fast a request). I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

I think it really hit home though, in the long month of separating for him. He sent me things in the mail, swapped emails. Even after I told him no more. He assured me he loved me, tried to explain himself (nicely at first), then when that didn't work, he started bringing up his manipulative ex girlfriends, put me on the offensive by neither admitting to manipulating me or not, and saying "lets call this by it's right name" essentially beckoning me to either outright accuse him, or retract my view and accept his innocent claim. Neither of which I did, then he accused me of being unfaithful to him (we weren't even together and he was jealous of made up characters in his mind... red flag), accused me of being decitful, attacked my integrity (things he said he valued in me) and sent me some very bitter poetry that terrified me and then he harrassed me online and isolated me from the online communities I was a part of.

I had to take a few steps back and think- how would a healthy person have handled this situation? and it suddenly dawned on me.... even though I couldn't believe it and tried to justify his actions... that something was very wrong. I could not believe the man I saw in the end; how different it was from the one I knew before, and even took time to observe months prior.

Now that I look back I can see so many red flags... he tested me without me knowing, he said a lot of things online and to me that I naively accepted, that were textbook not healthy.... I ignored all my gut feelings...

Another thing was that when we talked on skype once, he answered the door for his roommates and started a conversation. As I was turning the volume down so I could give him privacy, his room mate made a comment asking "who is she" and then his roomate said "you need to get laid" and I heard a brief snippet of him saying "I know, man". My face burned.

I didn't like the way he looked at me. I couldn't stand talking to him via video chat.

He was very different before he met me... he became very gentle and emotional with me, whereas elsewhere he said he wasn't a touchy feely person, not mushy at all, hated greenpeace, hated philosophy... with me, he became a nervous wreck, pulled on my emotions almost every time I dealt with him, was needy and very "passive" (to not alert my alarm bells).

Actually one of the biggest red flags was how long we spent in conversation (he was very possessive of my time and was happy when I sacrificed family time for him) and how the topic of coversation always ended up on him and his stories. We would have marathon 5 hour conversations, I was drained from and I was the listener for 90% of it. Even when he 'humbly' encouraged me to talk, it always went back to him. I didn't care at the time, the red flag was the enormous energy toll it took on me to be in a conversation with him, even when I was the listener.

I think that one of my earliest lightbulb moments that I rationalised away as soon as it came- was the suspicion of fakeness...

His charm didn't seem real to me.

And secondly, his persona was amazingly fitted to mine. How he ever gracefully changed in my presence... to be everything I could want and need. He made sure to not raise any of my guards, knowing what would drive me away from him... but he did make several comments to test me, each one testing something different. And I went along and accepted him for it... as he knew I would.

This is what I told my OT, how I described it: if my soul is like a room, there is absolutely nothing in the middle of the room. Everything I love is pushed right into the 4 corners of the room. This is so people who come into the room won't be able to trample on 'my things'. I know where 'my things' are and can go into the corners of the room to find them, no problem at all.

I find it difficult to keep the door shut, so people come and go as they please. And they behave as they please in the room. Some people are respectful, some not.

And so the answer is, children learn to deal with it in the only way they know how, and that's to lessen pain by not having anything to hurt. I don't even know what to say (perhaps there is little to say), i'm trying to imagine what it would be like to be a child and to grow into an adult, as you have done, with a legacy of a toxic parent. But I just can't begin to have an idea of what kind of deep pain that would cause. I can only begin to scratch the surface of understanding when I think about how all the experiences in my childhood have carried through to my life now, and how difficult it is to accept and heal from some things. How sometimes it feels like a losing battle; that some things just can't be undone. How difficult it is sometimes to take small steps forward and decide the life you want to live without the legacy of negative experiences effecting your future behaviour and thoughts. I imagine this experience would be 70% amplified in a case of growing up with a toxic parent. We deserved to be loved and respected by our parents. A childhood without it, is like trying to build a house without the bricks. Only when we're old enough can we start rebuilding our own house. It's hard for everyone, but for those with toxic parents, there are more challenges and more pain to work through.

It is truly amazing that some children survive their childhoods, some of whom make great strides in their life. It is truly amazing that you survived and are here to talk about your experiences today.

~

I can try and empathise with why you would find it difficult to keep your door shut (I may be wrong, but i've had difficulties with emotional boundaries, not sure if you mean that, feel free to correct me). Does it change anything to see your soul room as a sacred space? as your own sacred space?

It's a beautiful metaphor too. As much as it seems a painful thing.

Hi all,

my first post so if I write something that has to be edited, I appologise in advance. my lightbulb moment was yesterday, quite a few hours after I had another row with Psychopath (my husband). he is away at the moment, so I feel a bit braver standing up to him on the end of a phone, I can relate to so many of your experiences, and I wonder why I had to spend nearly 20 years married to this person, and let him get away with so much, but his obsession with transvestites and hard core gay porn (or any porn) is just too much.( I should have left five years into our marriage after finding out he "kept" two of his girlfriends - that I know of, not knowing if he had made the right decision getting married - I know..... you couldn't make it up).

he's got numerous profiles on different transexuals/transgender/crossdresser dating sites as an admirer, from what I've learned recently he has been advertising in national newsapers ( I am monitoring his activity on the net and someone who made contact after seeing his profile on one of the sites recognised him). He is in conatct with a number of them sending them sexually explicit email (eye watering material), god only knows what they say on the phone to each other, and then they arrange meetings. he is everything to everyone always telling me that "you tell people what they want to hear".

When asked why he did it he said it was because as a professional ( he is a forensic, clinical psychologist and he also specialises in gender reassingnment) he has to find out as much as possible to make him understand more about their mental state and how best to help them. He is also a member of the APA( although is not practising in the USA). All his patients speak very highly of him, apparently he has been doing an oustanding job, feeds his giant and enormous ( is it ginormous?) ego.
the row mentioned above was about him telling me how he wants to try again, etc...right after making arrangements through email to spend the weekend with one of his crossdressing friends (restaurant and a concert or play, or just a drink ...you know the usual stuff)

the problem I have now is that he is due back home in the next week or so, we've got two children ( that he mentally abused on and off, more on than off but the kids are very forgiving), and he said to me on the phone he is going to find out who is been feeding me all this c**Psychopath information, and whoever it is he's going to make sure he/she pays for it). He is unpredictable ( aren't they all), I have not spoken to anyone, family or friends - the only friend I have is HIM, he's transfered all the money and properties we have in his name, rented a deposit box (bank) and left everything private and personal (including all my jewelry ) in there.

so I am not quite sure what to do, but finding out about this mental condition, helps me cope with the actual situation a lot better, as before I use to torment myself by asking why he is doing it ( I still do a bit... if I am honest)over and over again. I am numb with pain.

hope i didn't bore you to tears, thanks for reading.
em

not sure whether to press the post button or not, scared to death,but i'm sure diane will sort it out.

em-ma, thank you for posting and reaching out. It's incredibly brave of you to do so.

You ask 'I wonder why I had to spend nearly 20 years married to this person, and let him get away with so much...'. I'd say neither of those things were choices that were freely made by you. Psychopaths have the most incredible ability to pull you towards them and enmesh you in their lives. Before you know it you're trapped in a sticky web and the more you move (and maybe even struggle) the more enmeshed you end up getting.

starry! You put it perfectly! Those people have total control over our lives. I think it is IMPOSSIBLE to actually get out of such a relationship without the help of others. Maybe that's why Ps want to deprive us all of our friendships, they know it's the only way to control us. My Psychopath went almost crazy when, after another brake up - and getting back together - I told him - no more, set up the rules, started seeing people again... What he started doing when he saw he was losing control... that was a total brainwashing, and not even mine, his! He would change ALL of the stories, all the facts 180degrees... and make me believe its all true... sick bastard!

Yes, and depriving someone of outside contact (especially friends) makes it very easy to manipulate and control that person's reality. Without any outside perspective you can convince someone of anything at all, and you can make them do pretty much anything.

Other proven techniques include sleep deprivation and the deprivation of food and drink.

My dad was a master at these. He would deprive me of food and drink for days and days and days (the longest time I remember was 2 weeks without food). One woman was 70 pounds when she finally escaped from him.

I suspect a lot of psychopaths use these techniques. They're very, very, very effective.

Exactly!
And they are just perfect in using your subconsciousness - my Psychopath would just make comments about my friends (especially male friends, who I have a lot of), you could always see that he is pissed off when I talked about someone or went to see someone (and it made me feel this kind of emotion - like I knew inside that he was gonna remember that and do something bad to me "in return") - he would scream at me afterwards and make me feel like a slut (he never used the word though, but you know). He would then apologize. This was a nightmare. And you subconsciously feel that you can't deal with that, so you just do what is the easiest - get rid of situations like these - for me it was losing contact with these people (and he also made me believe they were bad people coz they did this or that - he was always saying sth like: "Look what X did! How could he do it! He is such a liar..." etc.).

I still can't understand how they make us believe all this... I guess you never control your subconsciousness that well to be able to spot what someone is doing to you. You just react. And when you don't know how to react anymore... that's where you get lost. That's where they win - pushing you over the edge.

thanks starry.

I would also add the fact the he was paranoid about me talking on the phone, he always had the impression that we were talking about him, although I use to say to him: sorry but even you are not that important that we have to talk about you all the time.

he would listen to my phone calls, to friends and family and not only, monitor what I was saying, and slowly without me realising he had pushed everyone away, and he's the only one left to talk to, to ask for advice and so on. on the other side when he answered his calls all i needed was a certain look and I would leave the room.

and one more thing he is such a flirt, in person, on the phone, in emails, he is wonderful, but I suppose i'm only stating the obvious.

em

Hi Em, Welcome to our community. We have to help you figure out a way to get your hands on the $ and get him out of you and your children's life.

Fitting career for him.



We cry for your pain, nothing you say would bore any of us here. How can we help you get your power and money to escape him? You will need a pit bull of an attorney to find his money trail and hopefully we can help advise you to be safe. Please do not tell him you are onto him or call him a Psychopath, act like everything is just great, don't let on that you are awake and know the truth. Start a journal and write down all his "dirty" laundry. I assume he is still living with you and your children? If so you need advise on how to cover up your trail for your online activities and can help you with that. Pretend you are the greatest actress on earth and do NOT confront anything or let him know what you know.

If you would like I think it would be a good idea to open a discussion thread so we can huddle with you to get you away from him and not end up flat broke in the process. Let me know and I'll open up one, if you have a specific title (threads with more specific titles will get you more focused attention) just let me know. I'll move you posts and comments to the new discussion thread.

Di

Thank you Dianne.


Today has been a better day than usual, it's most probably down to the fact that he's away and I only have to listen to his lies just a few times a day when he phones.
I don't want anything from him just the kids, my books and freedom, money is his God, it wouldn't be very wise to even go there. Besides he's in not very good health ( good enough though to do what he's doing, but long term he's going to need the money more than me ) although I am aware the children will have to be provided for, I hope he'll see sense and help the kids and if not I'll manage somehow, I just got to get out of this relationship, I feel I can do it one step at a time.

Thanks again for offering to huddle with me to get me away from him, and for listening and the advice given. Having googled psychopath and coming across this forum , reading some of the other members stories helped enormously in looking at the situation from a different angle, it's got a name, it's there I have to deal with it.

I'll probably pop back for some more advice, and keep you up to date with the progress i'm making.

emma

Hi Guys,

I discovered this forum this morning and reading about all of your experiences has been both upsetting and eye-opening. I woke in the small hours after having a really disturbing dream, which somehow made me think about a man I've been having a relationship with and I had a real moment of clarity about his behaviour and frankly, it frightened me. I'm not even sure what caused me to make the Psychopath connection, other than perhaps because my father was a diagnosed Psychopath and I know a thing or two about their modus operandi? I thought I would post to see if anyone thought his behaviour was typical of a Psychopath and also how I might give him the brush off as I'm really quite scared to keep him in my life. Apologies, I think this may be a bit of an essay so please don't feel obliged to read!

I started seeing him about a year ago and we've been more off than on during that time. He's younger than me and very good looking and I was quite surprised by his interest and I definitely encouraged it. I only ever see/saw him on his terms, he drops out of contact for days or weeks at a time then contacts me out of the blue as if nothing happened. We communicate mainly by text, he seems to prefer text contact rather than face-to-face, particularly when it comes to sexual relations. He is transfixed with breasts and likes to send me pictures of himself posing naked. His text messages tend not to make any sense if I ask him a direct question that he might prefer not to answer. I know he has a temper and I try not to invoke it, especially as I know texts are often misconstrued, but even when I try to be nice, he will turn every exchange into a competition/point-scoring opportunity. He is very quick to make very personal insults, even with no provocation. He invited me out one night then completely ignored me and ended up really insulting me and basically calling me easy in front of his friends when I spoke to them instead of him (naturally I did this as he was ignoring me and I didn't want to spend the night in the pub in silence, I'm normally quite outgoing and like chatting to people).

Sex was really perfunctory, I got nothing from it emotionally. He wanted me to touch him but didn't want to reciprocate. He wouldn't dream of touching me outside the bedroom (where the lights were always off and he got naked and into bed before I even reached the room) in an affectionate way. I said to a couple of my friends that for reasons I couldn't put my finger on, I wondered if he may be homosexual. He sent me a couple of texts recently in a sexual context where he said that I didn't know what he was capable of and also one describing in graphic detail what he would do to me and let's just say it wasn't something that I would be particularly keen on doing, it was fairly aggressive.

He has jokingly made reference to stalking me and looking through my windows previously although now it doesn't seem so funny. What seems different to other people's experiences is that I never went through a honeymoon period, he was always difficult to pin down and get an emotional response from but I put it down to him being a little emotionally dysfunctional - haha. He lives with his mother who seems very normal, his father is absent, he has been rejected by some of his family and he hates his brother with a frightening intensity. He has a great many tattoos and is really into shooting. As far as I can tell, he likes animals though! He's bad at managing money and constantly blames other people for things that go wrong in his life. A lot of people around him have suffered misfortune, including good friends he's lost through accidents, and when I jokingly mentioned he may be jinxed he flew off the handle.

In the past when I've ignored him, he always contacts me again and I relent and strike up a relationship because I think he may have changed. This time I'm adamant that I won't put up with him because I'm really quite scared, I live on my own. I think my best option is just to keep any text responses to him neutral and non-committal, gradually phasing them out as I don't want him to think I'm dumping him. I'm hoping he'll just get bored eventually. I'm also hoping that he's not dangerous, I'm sure he's not I guess it would be nice to get some input.

God, I really hope he doesn't read this.

Thank you if you do manage to read this, I feel better for sharing x

basil, welcome

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It sounds very empty and unfulfilling. I think you are right to be wary, your gut instinct is always right. I would keep any texts and make a note of any threats he makes.

You mention that you live alone. Do you have friends that you could reach out to? Perhaps a female friend who could come and stay with you for a couple of days. Or a friend that you could arrange to check in with every evening at the same time by phone? Or family?

I don't have much advice, except maybe to remember that you don't owe him anything.

Hello, I'm new here.

I already knew something was wrong about my mother-in-law, but the lightbulb moment came last Thursday when I was watching "The Mentalist" on tv. At the end of the show the character who was playing the new supervisor told Patrick Jane he was a psychopath, and listed all the main symptoms. And I said, "Wow! That sure sounds familiar."

After doing online searches and reading half the night about psychopaths, I was amazed. If Mother-in-law is not a psychopath, I sure don't know what else she is. She fits the whole list.

Anyway, I'm glad this group is here, even as small as it may be at this time.

blue heron

Hi, this is my first time here... you guys have helped me so much already, I thank you all beyond belief. The light bulb moment... good question. When the horror had been with me a few days, after the lightning bolt, I was talking with a close friend about the whole situation. I referred to "him" as a psychopath. The word just came out. My friend said, "You mean socio-path, not psychopath." I thought I said a word that didn’t exist, some mix of psycho and socio-path. Well, that night to check my vocabulary, I went online and goggled psychopath. OMG. The article I found, What Is a Psychopath, described him to the hilt... a CHARISMATIC PSYCHOPATH. A light bulb, well not really, more like a glaring flood light. I was so amazed to see that he is labeled, that I am not the only one to have experienced this type of devil. I actually felt relieved. It wasn’t me, my reactions, my inadequacies, it was him… he brilliantly orchestrated the collapse of my life. In this article the following is what lead me to search for a support group, thank God... I found you guys. “I believe that some individuals are strong enough to stand up to the psychopath; unfortunately, not all people are, and most psychopaths succeed in permanently damaging their victims. This is why we clearly need more support groups for people who have been in relationships with psychopaths.”

Welcome, Miss Treated. It really is empowering to finally start understanding what is going on with those infuriating people in our lives. There is some good information here and some nice people who can relate.

blue heron

Hi blue heron, You are the first to talk to me. Thank you. This is new to me. I just hope it keeps me moving forward.

Miss Treated, welcome!

Psychopath and Psychopath are both being used to describe basically the same type. I think Psychopath has more power, but also, if you say it, people usually think of serial killers.

So I usually say psychopath-Psychopath to denote that these words mean the same.


I hope you will find as much comfort here as you can, you sure are in the right place!

Welcome, Miss Treated. I have read some of your story in your other post.

I hope you continue to find the answers your are looking for.

Some months after I broke up, this foggy haze in my head was starting to clear up more and more each day.

I had always thought of her as a very emotionally damaged person from the childhood abuse she had described to me..
That anyone experiencing something like that would be desensitized and different. So I had sympathy for her hard life and lots of empathy for her, and forgave her for mistreating and disrespecting me rather easily..

Then I started realizing...her sisters are all well off and most of them married (6 sisters in fact). They seem nice and are in happy relationships.

Something didn't make sense. I started wondering "What kind of person behaves like this?" and "Why would someone lie about the smallest most meaningless things?", "How could someone do something so serious and seemingly not be affected by it?". I always thought that when she didn't show or express remorse, guilt or that she was sorry; she was feeling it on the inside but holding it back. So I never confronted her with it, just expected she felt terrible enough as it was. I was wrong.

I started searching online for "compulsive liars", "manipulative people", "people with no regret" and after a while ended up in a wikipedia article reading about psychopathy and Hare's checklist. I was shocked when I started trying to put the total points together and realized she nailed a 2 pointer on almost every one...

Shortly after, I ended up finding this forum.

Since becoming more mature, I've always tried to think of the world as a good place and that bad people simply didn't exist. I would delude myself that even serial killers were simply misguided, abused, people with a shattered soul who were good deep down somehow. This line of thinking blocked me from seeing what was going on.

Thanks for the help on this forum. Lots of good people here. I think there are tons of victims who will never realize that they were once with a psychopath...I wanted answers at first and to know "why"...I don't need to know why anymore. They are just not like other people, and to fully understand one, we would have to become one. And there is no way anyone would want that. So I just accept what ever happened because Psychopath was just like that and Psychopath didn't choose to be who she was.

-James

That's kind of funny because I in a way sort of thought something kind of similar. I mean, I always believed that light couldn't exist without dark, so of course there would be such a thing as good and evil. I figured if there was no bad in the world, there would be no good either.

But you see, the thing with me was that when I saw/met someone who seemed troubled, I thought the same. I thought they
were just troubled, misguided. Probably had a troubled childhood. Which is true, for everyone else excluding psychos.

So, even though I had the thought in the back of my head that bad has to exist for good to exist, I never 'viscerally' understood it. I was happily deluded in my own world, a complete sitting duck with my fantastical wishful thinking. And then I was taught a lesson, and now I learn to apply what I believe rather than just let it float in the back of my mind as an after thought.

So, what I've noticed is a lot of people who get into these types of relationships are people who tend to have this same sort of wishful thinking. It's what makes us sitting ducks. Our lack of awareness makes us easy prey. In a way, I guess when people think like this - they're begging for a wake up call from reality. And reality can hit hard!
~~

As for my lightbulb moment, it happened when he told me that he thinks about raping women. I was shocked when he said that, but he explained to me that it is normal for men to think about rape. He said that all men think about this even if they don't admit it. The way he said it to me was so casual, like talking about the weather. Then he explained to me that he couldn't help the way he thinks, that I should accept him, and saying it's women's fault for being sexy.

A few months after he said that, little red flags just kept piling up until I decided I wasn't going to take anymore of this. I felt like I was constantly under a spell, being manipulated and I couldn't see anything. The very fact that I couldn't see or understand anything was also my red flag, which helped me get out.

In the past, before him, I had a fairly ok/healthy relationship. What I know is that my first relationship did not make me feel like utter crud, and did not make me so emotionally confused to the point of wanting kill myself.

So, what I knew was that what was happening between us was not normal or healthy by any stretch of the imagination. That helped get me out.

I second these thoughts and have been thinking them myself....

There were several redflags. But this flag was red, flashing and screaming WAKE UP.

I had left work earlier and I thought to surprise him and have lunch together, so I drove to his work - he'd been working in a lawfirm as a lawer for 4 months. As soon as I arrived in the building, I called him and I asked him where he was. He said: I'm at work. I said: yay! I'm downstairs, come here.

He hung up immediately and turned off his cell. I was calling him non stop and 40 mins later the psycho shows up and says he was in the bathroom. Then after he realized I wasn't that stupid, he changed the story (that seems to be a common psycho behavior): I worked in this lawfirm for a while, but my boss didn't pay me so I went back to my old job, I wish I felt comfortable to share these things with you but you're so judgmental bla bla bla - he went on on how he cannot trust and rely on me.

And that's how it suddenly becomes my fault. He has a post PhD in twisting the situation.

When he left, I asked the security and doorman where was this lawfirm. They said there wasn't any lawfirm in that building. I sneaked in the emergency stairs and I walked through each floor, looked on every door. Then I researched on the internet. It didn't exist. He made up the firm, his boss' name, his colleagues' name, his intern's name, even told me about some of their cases.

The final straw was when I found out he wasn't a lawer after all. This time I had proof. I still gave him a last chance to come clean and tell me the truth, but he kept on insisting, I asked 10 times, I said I knew the truth, and he swore on his mother's life he didn't lie... When I confronted him with the proof, he changed the story again and again. When there was no possible way out he started crying and saying how embarassed he was, but how could he tell me, if I judged him so much?