Hello to all.

I am new to this board and haven't quite had a chance to read all the posts. However, I am certain I may be able to find answers.

To make a very, very long story short. I am married to the most wonderful man in the world! I am certain he is my soul mate.

We have brought our families together with the love we share with each other and have just given birth to a Beautiful Baby Girl 7 months ago.

I have two children from a previous marriage and he also had 2 children from a previous marriage.

Our children were very young when we first met, yes, it wasn't easy but, I believe bringing our family together was the most wonderful thing we could have given "our" children. A FAMILY, one in which they never had. Two loving parents and lot's of love for all our children!

I will try to make this short, however, I am finding it hard.

My husbands ex-wife was diagnosed as a teenager as a psychopath. I really never put much thought into this because she was in and out of the children's lives and it never effected our family because the lack of communication on her part.

My husband's youngest daughter bloomed into a beautiful teenager and with this came ALL the teenage 'stuff'! Lot's of trouble...........as well as trouble from our other teenagers.

My troubles began when the "ex-wife" found out we were finally getting married. However, shortly after we had planned our wedding I found out I was pregnant.

This is what set this women (ex-wife) over the edge! She began spending more time with her children......much manipulating......many lies..........and just down right deceit!

Now a year later, my husband's daughter who has shown signs of the same behavior throughout the years has chimmed in with her natural mother and between the both of them they have turned my family inside and out!

If it wasn't for the love I have for the man I married and the respect of the person he is, I have found myself within the past few months thinking this is not worth it and basically I feel sometimes I should just give up! Enough is Enough! After the anger subsides, of course I remember why I said "I do" to this man. I know I want to spend the rest of my life with him.

I guess what I am seeking, is how to handle a 'psychopath'? I feel as if I am damned if I do and damned if don't! There are days that I am just so exhausted in defending myself from AWFUL, HURTFUL, and OUTRIGHT lies!!!

I have tried, talking to both the mother and the daughter, I have tried getting angry, I have tried to ignore them, I have tried to forgive them, ..............I feel as if I have tried everything! Nothing works!!! Yes, I can turn my back and give up and walk away. However, this is what they want! My husband's ex-wife has tried everything! I have let this go on for way too long, every time I turn around this woman turns me upside down! My step-daughter, who I love and adore lies about me every time I turn around. No, not just me..........even her own father.

How do you deal with this! How do I respond to my step-daughters lies, in a loving manner to teach a 15 year old that MOST people are loving, caring adults who are honest!

How do I respond to the 'Ex-Wife's' allegations, lies and emotional outbursts, expecially when her daughters come home from a visit and treat me so cruel. How do I recognize this is the result of their mothers actions and deceit and forgive them for their hatefulness towards me?

I have never met a person like this.......no emotion, no humiliation, no REMORSE! It's as if this woman, (Ex-wife) is the Devil herself! She's wicked! For almost 7 years, I have given this woman the benefit of the doubt because I couldn't imagine any person would be so evil! I consider myself a very good judge of character however, these days..I feel as if I am stupid for letting this woman manipulate me for so many years, I guess I didn't see it until her direct target was me! Or is it she just HATES my husband so much, she wants to see him hurt? It's all to complicated .............????

If any of you have answers..........please help! I want to stay married, give "ALL" my children all the love I can give and be a good mother and step-mother.

Hi Jacque

Sounds like your husband and family are lucky to have you - they must have gone through hell when he was married to the ex.

How to deal with a P? Not sure that any of us have found the answer to that! Remember not to take any of it personally - she would be just as evil, and find just as many lies and bad stories to spread around about you even if you were 100% perfect in all respects - which none of us are! And those who know you will not believe the lies in the long term. Also those who know HER well will know that anything she says is likely to be distorted, imagined or exaggerated.

I believe that its quite common for teenagers to 'mirror' the P's behaviour. My own daughter did to a certain extent at around that age. Hopefully your stepdaughter will grow out of it eventually. I suppose there is no way of restricting the P's access to them? Or moving far, far away from her?

I do hope you can win through and overcome this woman's influence on your family.

Jacque

Hi, welcome. I agree with Ali - there is nothing much you can do - all they want is a reaction/attention whether good or bad and no thought to the consequences. If you can ignore it all then great - I could not so I moved far away from my ex P.

Likely she will find a new target soon enough and move the focus from you.

Keep coming here for a moan at least - its better out than in and we UNDERSTAND - what they are like.

Best of luck

Recovery

Hi Ali,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.

Everyday seems as if I am drowning! I wish it could be as easy to move away. The "X" has reminded me her daughters and ex-husband will ALWAYS be a family unit.

I believe, I have finally realized the losing battle I face every day.

Hi Recovery!

Thank you! I find it hard to ignore this. I do try.

After reading many posts this morning, I truly believe I will not find any resolution to this horrible situation. One in which I must deal with for the rest of my life or simply give in and move on.

Finding a new target doesn't seem to be coming any time soon! This has been going on for over a year. It was easy dealing with the children however, dealing with her directly has been like adding fuel to the fire so to speak.

I have discontinued all communication with this woman and I have clearly stated I do not wish for this woman to be welcomed in my home any longer. Somehow, she finds a way....directly through her daughters.

I find myself resenting the comments from my step-daughters, which has had a major impact on our relationship. In return, this puts undue stress on my husband and strains my relationship with him. I do try to see things through my husband's eye's however, the words in which I try to explain the hurt I feel to my husband somehow my words become jarbled and it's intepreted as if I am complaining and nagging about his children.

I feel our circumstances in our family relationship are hard enough but, to jumble all this nonsense too, it's as if we are doomed!

Hi Jacque

Please don't despair. You have so much to lose; don't let this woman take it away from you. The only weapon you have is to stay united. P's realise this and will play the 'divide and rule' card to their advantage. And they know how to push buttons to make other people behave badly. Is your husband easy to talk to? Sometimes it works better to write down just how you feel and let him read it - remembering to stress that you love him and want to fight this battle together with him. If you can work together with him I'm sure you can win. As for your husband, her and the children 'always being a family group' - being a family is something you work at, not something biological. She is not capable of that - you are.

All the best

Ali,

You are so right about the meaning of FAMILY. Thank you for your words of inspiration.

It's so comforting to know, someone understands. :-)

Jacque,

That's what so cool about this site. Peolpe DO understand, because they've been on the receiving end of P's manipulations.

It's so hard to explain things to outsiders, because it sounds like you're being hysterical. But here you can let your hair down!

All the best

Jacque

I hope you are still looking at this site sometimes - I was thinking about you and your struggle and how overwhelming it can get. I hope the clouds have started to lift for you. If they have not then come and have a moan here - as we can listen and understand if not help directly.

hope to hear from you

Recovery

Yes Jacque,

Do come by and vent your steam - we all know exactly what you are going through. We have been there too. All slightly different situations but still dealing with the same foes. I count myself lucky that I was able to eventually just walk away. I feel for you, caught up in this situation. It's like dealing with very naughty children who aren't going to change. Try and raise yourself above their silly lies and games and see them as wayward children (the ex too). Maybe, when their lies don't matter to you, you will be able to resist being drawn into the game and being hurt. Once you are cool and not drawn in, then you are no fun for the P to play with. They will go looking for easier and more fun victims to taunt.


Good luck to you

Mark

Hi Mark

I was just going thru your posts starting with this one
"The worst part of it, or one of the worst parts is that when a normal relationship breaks up, you still have your fond memories of the good times. When the P relationship breaks up all you have left if a pack of lies. The hard part is pulling down all the memories and the realization that it was all false and the person that you cared for wasn't real." It still feels so freaky when someone else can know and describe the P experience exactly as it was for me. So I read some more of your posts and see that you have given some good advice. I noted your support for the raising awareness thread and wonder if you fell like taking up some of the research points mentioned on Ali's post?

best of luck

Recovery

I was trying to recall which one of Ali's posts that you were refering to. Can you point me in the right direction. Sometimes I find the message structure of this board confusing - maybe it's because the threads go on for such a long time and cover a range of topics - not that I am complaining - just confused LOL


Mark

Hi Mark,

If you click on a posters name you can select to view all of the posts that have been posted by that person.

Di

Thanks for the tip

I will check out the posts


Mark

Mark

I just had a look and took a while to find the posts I was speaking about so I have copied them and pasted it below as I think they are worth highlighting.
Recovery




Posted by Ali
AM
Re: Children's Rights [re: Ali] Reply




Hi Everyone

Just a quick update as to what's going on with the lobby group.

We've set some objectives - I'll include them at the end of this post.

We're still looking for a name for the group - anyone out there have any suggestions?

Our next task is to identify the areas we want researched and produce a list of topics. We're hoping that maybe some of you who don't have time to actually join the group might volunteer to help with some of the research - we need all the help we can get.

Since we all have other commitments and can't always guarantee to put aside time for this, we've decided to do it this way: We will create a 'workpile' of things to do/topics to research; whenever anyone has the time, they can take a task off the workpile. When they've finished it, they will 'put it back' as completed, and if they have time, take another task from the pile. That way if someone ends up busy and not able to put much time in at any stage, the work will keep chugging along regardless. So if any of you want to help with research, contact Di who can let you choose a task. If you find out halfway through that you don't have the time, just put it back on the pile - nothing has been lost. Hopefully no-one need then feel pressured.

Anyway, here are our objectives:

Summarised Objectives:
======================

1. To document and raise awareness of the negative impact of psychopaths on the welfare of children, including the dangers of mental, physical and sexual abuse.

2. To lobby for positive action to address this problem

Detailed Objectives
===================

1. To document and raise awareness of the negative impact of psychopaths on the welfare of children, including the dangers of mental, physical and sexual abuse. Documentation to be produced in the following areas:
a) The characteristics of the psychopath and the damage he or she can inflict on close associates

b) The effect of the psychopathic parent or carer on the child including cases of emotional, physical and sexual abuse

c) The effect of the psychopathic parent on the remaining parent or other carer

d) The ability of the psychopath to manipulate the system for his/her own ends, as well as the psychopath’s tactics to remove the credibility of the other parent or carer

e) Quantify in financial terms the impact to society of allowing psychopaths to repeatedly use the legal and social services to achieve their own ends



2. To lobby for positive action to address this problem, including:

a) Lobbying governments and other organisations to provide funds to be allocated for research by experts, so that factual reports and guidelines on recognising and dealing with the psychopathic parent or carer are made available to legal and social services personnel

b) Lobby for training to be provided for all decision-makers in the areas of child custody and visiting rights

c) Lobby for legislation to make it possible to prevent unsupervised access to children by psychopaths

d) Lobby for legislation to ensure compulsory screening of professional child carers for psychopathic personality disorder

e) Lobby for proper diagnostic procedures to be researched and laid down for use by qualified personnel to assess cases where a parent or carer is suspected to be a psychopath, and for proper procedures for appeal and reassessment of such a diagnosis, so that the legislation in points c) and d) cannot be used indiscriminately.



Ali
Ali's second post

This is just a quick update on the lobby group. We now have a name - Parents Against Psychopath Abuse (abreviated to P.A.P.A), a mission statement:

"To raise global awareness and educate the public at large to the inherent dangers associated with the psychopathic personality disorder, and to promote the development of measures within the social and legal systems towards prevention, protection and victim support, including special provisions and safeguards where children and child carers may be affected."

and a policy statement:

"We will at all times use peaceful and legal means to achieve our objectives, and will never use any form of harrassment of individuals or organisations. We will dissociate ourselves immediately from anyone who does not abide by this code of conduct."

We're busy working on a brochure-style write-up which will give details to back up our objectives and explain what we are lobbying for. It's going slowly, as we're all pretty busy, but we'll get there in the end! Any offers of help would be HUGELY appreciated.

Once that's done, we intend to start raising awareness, creating liaisons with organisations whose objectives are in line with ours, and lobbying appropriate organisations.

Will keep posting updates as things start moving

I am new to this forum and I could not help but reply to your posting. It was as if reading my own story, and I feel for and with you. I am in very much the same situation as you are/were. I met my husband over 7 years ago and we have been married for 4 years. He too is my soul mate. Our life together started out as if in a fairy tale - although the dream was swept out from under me in short order.

Six months after we were married, we gained custody of his 2 children, and I can empathize on the struggles dealing with a P ex-wife and a P step-daughter. I immediately started putting myself through numerous hours of counseling once I realized that something was not right and to try to help myself in dealing with the issues. It has helped me somewhat, but having to live with the constant lies and deceit is extremely hard to do. What has been the biggest challenge was that my husband would or could not recognize that there was a problem, so for many years I was always the one with the "problem".

I too was at the point of giving up and ending the marriage, but somehow I got through that. I hate to admit it, but I ended up in such a deep depresssion that I was suicidal - but I overcame that too. I guess I found somewhere deep inside me that although not everyone could see what I could see, that maybe, just someday, they would. It's now 4 years later and it appears - whether fortunate or unfortunate - that my husband has just woken up to the fact that the youngest is indeed a habitual liar and a P - exactly like her natural mother is. She's so like her mother even down to the drugs and alcohol. Now we're faced with being at our wits end in trying out what to do next and how to survive for the next 11 months until she is 18, and hope that we can minimize our legal risks with her until that time. I know that my attempts to be a good "replacement" mom (since the Ex is near non-existent) as well as a real mom to these 2 children hasn't been too much in vain since the eldest one appears to be very responsible and is being a productive member of society as well as putting herself through college.

All I can say is that if you can keep yourself focused, you will be able to survive. I understand it's not easy, and I almost didnt make it myself -- but at least I'm here now today writing this note to you.

Hi LostInMI, welcome to the forum. It must be a heart wrenching experience to have to face the cold hard facts that a child is a Psychopath. It is very kind of you to offer your story and encouragement to others.

One observation I have made from the parents who have come forward is the shattering experience makes it unbearable to even discuss. As a matter of fact, when I first started the forum years ago it was mainly for resources about Psychopaths and then victims started showing up. The original victims were parents of Psychopaths who had endured so much pain.

Your sharing is very valuable to those parents out there who come and read and aren't able to express themselves by posting.

May I ask, how do you plan to proceed once your step child turns 18? I guess what I am asking is there an arrangment for the child/adult to leave the house? Go to school?

Di

Thank you for the warm welcome. It is very helpful to see that I'm not the only one out there with these issues. Not that I didn't seriously think that I was, but it's difficult to find a forum where people can "relate" to what I've encountered.

We are not sure about the plans when she turns 18. We haven't seriously talked about making her leave the house, but as things has proven in the past, she might just make that decision for us since she is unhappy living with us. She's still very much tied to her natural mother, and actually to the point where she/they are enablers for each other. She does talk about college, which we encourage, but unfortunately even though she is extremely intelligent, she doesn't have the motivation to follow through. We realize that her only intent for college is for the party - which we won't financially support - but if she is serious on going, our emotional support is there. Since things change and incidents arise on the spur of the moment with her, we can't count on any plans or talk of today becoming a reality in the future ... so we just wing it as we go forward.

I have a very dear friend who's son was a P and who put them through an emotional, legal and financial he**, and surprisingly in his mid 20's he had an awakening, turned his life around, and is now working with other delinquent youths in their recoveries. In my case, we hope that there will be some similar awakening in her in the near future ... but we're not counting on it.

I'm sure as things progress, and now that I have found this forum, that I'll be posting inquiries, comments and/or solicit for help as we deal with this situation. I thank you for having such a resource available - it is so very refreshing to finally have an outlet where people really understand.

THANKS!

Hi LostinMI

I was reading your story and wondered how you keep sane through it all. The best thing about marrying a P is being able to divorce them, the worst thing is that the P will always be father to my child. It must be so hard to have to cope with a P child. I hope you, like SassyFras, keep strong.

I was curious at the "recovery" of your friend's son since it is well documented that P's don't change. Maybe the P diagnosis was a bit too strong and he was just a wild child - could yours be the same? Has there been a real diagnosis?

I hope you keep posting and get some help from the site.

best of luck

Recovery

Hi - You sound as if you are in the same place I was years ago. Now my step-son is 40 years old and I've had many horrible years with this boy I had always been so giving and fair to him. The very same thing you are experiencing. The Mother was not interested in him until he seemed to fit into our new family well when he was 8. We put a tap on our phone because he thought he was selling drugs out of our home when he 16 or 17. The tap was illegal but we were desperate to get a handle on his behavior and also not lose our family home. We got the suprise of our life when we found he was not doing his business at home BUT his mother was calling our two other teen children and enticing them to come to parties where there was every type of drug spread out on the table, and other illegal things. When we objected and were reeling from the shock the ex wife went to my husbands parents and said we were making up things about her and causing her trouble. We had the tapes but knowing that we were dealing with a p we gave up. They never backed us up (the grandparents) on anything. We somehow got through the years and have just come to terms with how bad the situation is and we are nearing 70!!!! The grandparents that interferred and put us down are gone. Please don't wait as long as we did. Actually, I think I saw more then my husband. The step son and his mother put me in a position of psychopathic step-mother. I was amazed that they tried to carry this off for years. Nothing was further from the truth. But sadly, truth has no part of their world! My husband is the most wonderful and kind person. His son is desperate to get back on the gravy train. I wonder what he will do next. We were kept in the dark about so many things that were used to take us in emotional and financial ways. Just using Zabasearch.com and Docusearch.com give easy to get information about identity theft attempts, where they spend money they have stolen from you, etc., etc.

If I had any advice it would be for the actual parent to get wise and as early as possible and try to build your lives and not let them go down the drain. It is amazing our marriage survived a deadly war on it but we never blamed each other and my husband was wise enough to not send the son to a party college when he got his GED. He didn't graduate from high school because "he was being picked on".For sending him to a Junior College my hsuband was threatened and cursed. BTW, son never finished one quarter - he went two or three quarters and would quit before the end of the quarter. I guess we thought he would straightened out at 18, then 21, then 30. We did everything during a crisis and now he is 40. He is blaming me for his father finally having enough. I don't feel at all safe. We have taken away the reward of harming us by taking him out of our wills. We were advised to leave him something to get him not to sue the estate. He doesn't know he is being left a smaller percentage. We were also advised to get a living, revokable trust because they are harder break. But as he operates minute to minute I don't know if anything really helps. Jen

My heart goes out to you. Unless the husband is supportive it is a hard, hard life. My husband was supportive and made an attempt to deal with the disfunction but his parents who he dearly loved choose to the heros to the grandchilden and make us the bad guys. My husband was not that strong and didn't deal with them. They are gone, the p is 40, his p Mother is 60 and it is STILL going on. If it were feasable we would move to New Zealand but it is not in the cards. The nightmare continues. If it were not for our other two children who are average, supportive, good people the world would be bleak. Jen

bless your heart!!! i also married my hubby, almost 5 years ago, although, him and his wife had been separated for 9 years, and they had 2 kids,, which my hubby raised on his own.... she came after me in the same way,, and,, her kids are just like her..... they have treated me and my hubby very cruely over the years. outsiders dont seem to understand.. my stepdaughter had already moved out, when we married, but,, i had 4 years with the stepson,, he was 12 at the time, he just turned 18, and has lived with his mom for 1 year... those 4 years where pure hell....loosing my own daughter to murder, she was 16.. i thought,, oh wow, i get to start over, another family, i was so excited, i did everything possible for those kids....all i wanted was a second chance at being a mom,,, i was also a nanny for 14 years,, i just love kids.. i knew these kids had problems,, i hoped to show them love and nurturing.. they responded,, only,, when they got something out of it.. but,, the lies where awful!!! stepson, at one point, tired to burn our house down, and denied it,, he did all sorts of bad things.. denied everything.. he would follow me around the house, when his dad was not there, with that foul smirk on his face.. he tried everything to intimidate me...i finally found out the way to handle him.... i was told to get down to his level.. he used to come up behind me and stick out his tougne and make noises,, i mean to the point of spitting on me.. so,, one day,, i turned around, backed him against the wall, and did the same thing to him,, i mean, to the point of spitting!!! it helped for a while,, but they always come back with something else.. i had to watch our cats and dog very closely,, could not ever leave stepson in this house alone.. at one point, when he was only 12, he was stealing my panties,, and denied it,, i mean,, how did they get in his closet and in the back of his drawers, or under his mattress??? oh, so many things,, we even had him in a special school for 1 year.... nothing helped.. he almost destroyed our marriage....long story!!!! but,, his mom conned him into coming to live with her when he was 16,, oh boy,, did he act up untill he got his own way,, she wanted the child support, and we told him this,,,she still gets it!!!!! all the promises she made him have turned to mud.. she is also a huge lier..... manipulator,con lady,, she has tought her kids well.... my husband is the most loving person you could ever meet.. we also have 2 grandkids, from his daughter, that we never see.. very sad situation.... i wish i had the answers for you!!!! p's will be p's, will be p's.. bottom line!!!!! they lie,cheat,con,rob,kill,hate, whatever it takes for them to keep thier control.... CONTROL,,,, thats what they want.......

Hi Jacque and welcome. I'm new here, too. In answer to your question, "How do you deal with the lies?" I don't know if there's much you can do except ignore them because confronting them with lies will only enrage them and they'll just lie more or tell you that you're too stupid to understand or you have things all confused. They like to do that. I was so trusting that it took me MANY years to realize that N daughter did nothing but lie. After we no longer had contact, people told us that she lied about us since she was little. I agree with everyone and I hope that your hubby is offering you support in this. And yes, Ps will use their children against you or do anything to hurt you. It's nothing that you or your hubby have done to deserve this kind of treatment, it's just the nature of the P. When his ex discovered that you were expecting, she was no longer THE person in his life. This had to infuriate her and she'll do anything to make your lives miserable. This is the second post I've read today where the child has a P parent and exhibits P traits, also. I think they have to have to be 18 until they're officially diagnosed as a P, but they can have the same behavior at age 15. You're such a warm and kind person to want your family to be one and it's too bad you have to go through this.

To Jaque and Jaimme,

Welcome JAque, I am new here also. My only regret about this site is that I DIDNT KNOW about it years ago.

Jaque I not the most informed member on this site on this site but,(AND DOESNT HAVE A VERY GOOD KEYBOARD AND MOUSE TO WORK WITH SO EXCUSE THE MISTAKES), BUT i know only too well what it is like to want to have your family together happy, and functional. I also understand the loss, AND feeling of helplessness when you cannot do anymore. At least you were able to figure out that what they were saying were lies. Myself Im a pretty guillable individual. As a child I Witnessed by brother inlaw raping his 3 year old son. No one beleived me and the outcome was I grew up believing everything that comes out of everyones mouth. A perfect target for a P. This site is having a profound effect on me in that probably for the first time I am finally starting to get IT. Jaimees advise not to confront the Ps lies is a good point too. Its important that they believe everyone is playing there game, as the truth could trigger the P to resort to other more destructive behaviours.

Heres a funny example of a young girl in therapy as her mother was a P. The therapist said to the girl " its really amazing for someone your age to know when an adult is lying too you. How do you know when your mother is lying?" The girl took a deep breath and replied "well thats easy, Every time she moves her lips".

Take care Rosie

Rosie, I'm glad that you feel you're getting a better understanding of the Ps. There are still a lot of things that confuse me. I really hope that things work out for you because it is so heartbreaking to be the parent of an N or P, especially while they are still living at home with you. Hopefully they'll be able to give the diagnosis and you'll know where you stand.

hi Jacque, I am new at this and in many ways just like you, I am in a similar situation as your husband. Although I have yet to get involved with anyone new due to the fact of what you are going through at this time. My Ex is out of control, I fear whoever I decide to get involved with in the future will be faced with your exact problems. My child is young so I'm not sure how my child will end up. As for my child, I figure it will be my job to teach my child as my child ages how rewarding it is to treat people good, how to love and be caring for others feelings, how it can feel good to help others who are in need of help. And how to respect help from others knowing they are helping from the kindness of there heart. If I suspect my child might be a P, I would work very hard to teach him right from wrong by leading by example and explaining why it is so important to be truthful. (being truthful and honest is rewarding because it builds charactor and integrity of who you are within a comunity and our world. Lies are nothing but trouble and as you lie, the people who you become close with will end up disliking you due to fake and not being able to trust you)

I've always wanted to get involved with charity and volunteer work and I'm really considering pursuing this idea in the near future. It will also help me keep my mind off of the bad things that are going on at this time within my life.

I'm no expert, but what little advice I would consider recommending to you is, ignore your husbands ex, do not let her get to you. Walk away when she has an outburst. Only talk civil when she is civil. Her goal is to upset you and split the two of you up. Do not tolerate her behavior and let her know you will walk away if she can't behave appropriatly. As for your step daughter, I think it might be best for your husband to sit down and have a talk with his duaghter in a positive way. He needs to let his daughter know she is loved by him and the rest of your family and everyone cares about her. Surround her with love and hopefully it will be contagious

I'm new here, too. I'm facing a real piece of work. My brother made the really bad decision to marry a P who lies to everyone - makes up ridiculous stories - but then tells them so often she convinces people they are true. She has concocted stories of domestic violence - had my brother arrested once, tried to a second time and the police stated her wounds appeared "self-inflicted". They refused to arrest him and that really got her mad. She immediately turned around and filed charges at child protective services against my brother and mother - alleging they BOTH beat her child and her. That agency investigated and found nothing. After that, she alleged my brother was a child molester. That was eventually thrown out. Now she is after me. I guess it's my turn. She is trying to have me arrested for an alleged assault. I know she is insane, the cops know, the court knows, but they all have to "follow procedure." There is no stopping her! This has been going on for 8 years - intensely for 2. My brother divorced her, but it will never end because they have kids. How do you respond to a kid who asks you why you did something to mom that never even happened without causing the young child to get mad at you? I don't know what to do!!! Does anyone have any advice or words of encouragement? She is absolutely crazy, but has somehow skated through all of her insane accusations up to now. I am praying that this will come to an end, but realistically know that this will never end.

Hi emb910,

Welcome to the board. I guess we are all involuntary members of this "P target" club but the good thing is we can lean on each other for support. It's really too bad you and your brother have had to deal with this.

False charges are VERY common among Ps. They are adept at using the system to harass others, whether it's lawyers, or the police etc. I noticed that you said she lies so often that people start to believe her. I know exactly what you're saying, I've sometimes had the same concern about a couple of psychopathic personalities I know. The good news though is that sometimes the repeated and increasingly bizarre lying backfires and people start to see them for the cold-blooded, pathological liars that they are. The repetition doesn't always work in their favour.

I'm curious about a couple of things. You mentioned that the cops and the court know she's a nutjob. Can they not investigate and charge her with "false investigation/charges" or whatever similar terms are used in different places. That's supposed to be part of "following procedure". Have you been able to consult a lawyer about your rights?

Also, I was wondering how old are their kids?

Hang in there - at times these situations can feel like you're caught in some vortex but it's important to try and maintain your faith.

Take care,

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie,

Thanks for the reply and words of encouragement. Since I made that post, I actually had to hire a couple of lawyers to fight the bogus criminal charges she filed against me. I have also spoken with the DA's office and am hopeful that they will assist me with filing charges for filing false police reports, etc. The kids are 3 and 6 and she does a wonderful job of making them believe horrible things about my brother and me. Since she has them the majority of the time, she has plenty of time to implant things in their minds.

This is just a nightmare, but it is oddly comforting to know that others out there are going through the same thing.

Thanks again!

Welcome emb910.

How do you deal with all the lies? Good question. It makes you question your own sanity, doesn't it? At one point in time, I thought I was doing things in my sleep! That is how good a P is at lying. What has helped me tremendously is documenting everything, saving all emails, text messages and recording conversations. The P will eventually contradict themselves. My P also filed false police reports, but thankfully the police didn't buy it. They also didn't follow up on it to file charges on the P for filing false police reports. I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. Everytime I filed a police report against my P, the P retaliated with something so far fetched and bizarre, that it wasn't long before law enforcement had an idea that they were dealing with a crazy person.

Stay strong and hang in there. I know how stressful and draining dealing with these P's can be. Remember, everything your P reports to police, has to be proved. Usually a P has no evidence or anything to prove what comes out of their mouths. It took me a while to realize that I didn't have to prove my innocence, the P had to prove my guilt and couldn't. They are sad, pathetic people who live an even sadder existence.

Keep posting. This forum has done tremendous things for me! Keep us updated on your situation...we are all here for you.

neverthesame

Again, thanks! I am planning on doing a few proactive things this week. First, is to follow up with the DA about bringing charges against the P for false police reports. Second, is to meet with the chief judge who is the boss of the idiot judge that issued the bogus warrant for my arrest for alleged assault (which, of course, never occurred). I hope that through that meeting I can either get the chief judge to overrule the other judge, and if that doesn't work, am hoping to report the judge for judicial misconduct. I did find out that the P has "friends" in the judge's office, in a town I do not live in but which is still in the county in which I reside. These judges have county-wide jurisdiction, so he does have the authority to issue such a warrant. Third, I am meeting with my lawyers and my brother's divorce attorney just to go over my plan. Fourth, I am going to request that my lawyers or my brother's lawyer contact the P's divorce attorney to further discuss the situation and alert him to the serious trouble she is getting herself into. Her divorce attorney had to learn of this latest event from opposing counsel so he is none too happy with the P. It would seem that people are starting to catch on, but it's a little late because as of this date I have been arrested for an alleged crime I did not commit and now have this hanging over my head. I'm a lawyer myself so you can only imagine the ramifications this is having on my professional life. I have handled numerous divorce cases and have dealt with some "crazies" (i.e. death threats from defendants, etc.) but never to this extent. And when you don't grow up in a family that abuses the system and uses the system to its own nefarious ends, this behavior just baffles you! I have a plan, it's just not fool-proof. I am hoping to accomplish all of this this week, but do have other obligations! This is just consuming me and I need a break, but there is no "break."

I am so happy I found this forum. As I said before it is oddly comforting to know that others out there have had or are having the same experience, even though I would not wish it on my worst enemy. Well, except maybe the P. ;-)

Hi Chris and emb910,

You're welcome. Hope you'll are making some progress in your respective situations.


emb910:

Glad to hear that you've got attorneys to vet things with. I know it's difficult when it involves kids that young even though in a way hopefully that cuts both ways. On the one hand it's difficult to explain these adult situations to them but on the other hand the less they know, given their young age hopefully less will stay with them. Pls. don't feel obligated to respond quickly - we're pretty laid back about that kind of thing here.


Chris:

As they say, don't get me started.

I hear ya! Ps are a cult of personalities or maybe a personality of cults is more fitting - bad news either way.


Sylvie

Hello,

I'm also a victim of lies, so I think I could give some advice. Of course, my case might be different than yours...

I am over 25 and he's over 70 (my father, the Psychopath).
My father makes friends with young people of my age and their families. It's not a normal thing, you understand.
He makes friends with my mother's family members, whom he hates and tells stupid stories about to me and my mom.
He manipulates them all and cuts my relationships...

So far similar to your case...

But when can't psychos tell lies and destroy ties?
When they have no idea about them!

So, I'd advise you to keep good friends, relatives, loved ones away from the psycho.
My very few good buddies I keep for normal people and exclude the psycho.

How?

-> they must never meet: if the predator cannot find them, he cannot lie to them, plain and simple...
-> but: make sure you keep all your phone numbers, address lists and your mobile phone, etc. away, perhaps out of the house (my Psychopath father found some phone numbers and visited periodically several tens of families, friends and torpedoed my ties with them!)
-> Psychopath must not even know that you have friends: my father knows only the mane of a few, whom he cannot meet and he is already inventing stupid stories about my friends (calls them satanists, homosexuals, drug addicts, etc.)

One of the worst things for a Psychopath is when he/she is excluded. You can have your clean life and he cannot have any "key" to the "locker". Go out into the free wide World and live your life!
This doens't mean you have to lock yourself up, isolate!
Don't get me wrong, isolate the Psychopath only. Eventually a few people that he is controlling.

Shortly: keep your life away from the Psychopath.
Also keep your job, career, health-related issues away. It's like keeping hygiene, but not in the physical, but in the emotional/mental sense.

Good luck, be strong & think positive

If you are certain that you are not the psychopath, that you have empathy, that you do not lie, that you care about other's feelings, I'd recommend the following:

If you are certain that your abuser is lying to you, tell him that he is lying, when he lies to you. He may pretend to get upset. He may get upset. He may feel hurt, but you just did him a favor. It's not doing him any good to let him think that he is getting one over on you, when you know the truth and are just pretending that he's a decent person out of your extreme over-kindness.

I believe in being kind to everyone and turning the other cheek, and returning love for hate, but to the liar, the thief, the tyrant, and the deceiver, I will be truthful with them, as much as wisdom and temperance allows. I refuse to pretend like cruel, deceptive, irrational Bull-dooks is anything but that. I'm not my daddy's little victim any more. I tell him like it is, as it is, and if he don't like that, he can go terrorize some other target.

Furthermore, one tactic of the psychos is to be oh-so-subtle. Yeah, he constantly lies, but none of the lies are blatant. None of them are so obvious. How often it is that he makes it appear that he just happened to make a mistake, or, maybe I just forgot some minor detail that he remembered, but after going through this routine time after time from only one and the same person, it's obvious. I do not have to prove his BS to anyone, and I do not care how crazy I look in front of others when I tell him to quit his lying cause I'm not putting up with it anymore.

That's how to deal with the lies. Some people just cut the person out of their life entirely. That might work for some, I do not know. I tried it, but it seemed to leave a hole in me, and people like my dad just kept filling it. Now, I'm using him as defense training practice, like a martial arts sparing partner, so the next time some psycho bully tries to lie, steal, and bully me, I'll be more prepared and have practice on speaking up and I will not walk out of it bearing all the pain, while he walks out of it feeling that sick sense of one-up power, scotch-free.

Hi all I used to post some time last year but no access to computer and so did not post a while. Reading the posts still some useful info here and have been wondering lately about lying and how to respond. I too do not think it is good idea to let the psychopath get away with lies but once they have for a period of time - is it worth the energy and effort to try and disprove them? I realised that the lies were theirs and theirs alone. Once you off load the pressure you realise that it is not your problem. If you have disconnected yourself and moved on the lies do not hurt. If you can get in at the beginning before they have emotional control over your life and friends often this is when the psychopath is younger and inexperienced then you have a chance but I think timing is key. As you say it is no fun for them playing alone.

I'm just finding that out...knowing others are going thru what my husband and I are going through with my son...manipulation, habitual liar, hasn't kept a close friend around in a long time, spends money without any concern of whether he can actually afford what he's buying, or not. Seems to care less about the welfare of his parents, or anyone else in his family...except his children. He cares for them, but recently has encountered a backlash from a couple of his children, and an investigation has pursued by the courts. Its clear he has mental problems of some sort, but I never thought it could be this serious. I'm thinking I'm considered a "rookie" at this point, but I hope to learn a lot from this site.