Hi everyone

As I'm sure a lot of you know, a group of us are trying to put together some research to try to raise awareness of the P problem.

Please everyone - your feedback would be very much appreciated. One of the things I'm looking at right now is the way P's are able to manipulate their victims - often into uncharacteristic behaviour. Your thoughts on this would be very helpful, as only victims have experienced this first hand.

Mine used a lot of emotional blackmail - he was 'depressed' and needed help; he threatened suicide and got me to do all kinds of things to prevent it; he put on a whole range of phoney emotions to gain my sympathy.

Another tactic was sheer persistent whining, of the kind that eventually wears you down.

And then there was the 'angry' mode, where shouting and yelling were the order of the day. To a certain extent he used violence, although that tended not to work well with me - I mostly responded to that with anger rather than submission.

Do any of you have anything to add to this? Or any stories that would illustrate the things I've mentioned? Needless to say, we won't use any actual stories without first getting permission from the poster via the forum moderator.

Thanks everyone

Hi:

I haven't been ignoring this question; it's just very difficult to answer. I've mainly been thinking of it in terms of "way P's are able to manipulate their victims - often into uncharacteristic behaviour."

I met my P in an internet support chatroom. It was a given, because of the nature of this forum, that the people there had emotional/behavioral problems. I felt that part of my healing process was to help others (I've since learned that was a way of avoiding dealing with my own problems). At any rate, I hope this gives you an idea of where I was, and that I wasn't there to judge others.

As I got to know my P, I learned of his painful, brutal childhood, of the girlfriend who left him for another man, and of his mental health issues. I believed he was there for recovery, as we all were, and talking things out was important. I was a ready ear, even for things that seemed terrible, because, I thought then, they were just thoughts, just feelings.

By the time I realized what he was, I had emotionally committed myself to this man. And so, when he began to tell me of things he had actually done, *criminal* things, particularly to his ex-girlfriend, well...

This is the difficult question. In some ways I feel like I became "an accessory after the fact." I provided emotional comfort to someone I knew had stalked and harmed another human being. Someone who had done things against my moral code. And why did I do that?

Like you, I feel that emotional blackmail factored into the equation in a big way. He *needed* me. I was his only friend. The only person he could talk to. His ex was the only person he had ever loved, but *I* was the only person who had ever understood him, who he could open up to. And I was afraid that he might self-harm if I upset him.

I needed him too. Can I blame that on him? Did he manipulate me into needing him? I think my own lack of self-worth is to blame for that.

That's all I can say right now, though I'm willing to discuss this further.

Hi there

I was reading your post and thinking it could have been me. I met my P for real - but he used exactly the same tricks and played the victim worthy of an oscar.

The weird thing was that when he moved on he would blast me with words in wich I was the baddy, he was the victim and the new girl friend was the one who understood. But the words were IDENTICAL to the words he had used 5 years previously except then I was the one who understood and his ex at that time was the baddy - he was , naturally still the victim.

It did not even occur to him that I would remember these conversations - I suppose they were for the benefit of the new one so it did not matter what I thought. But it does show how self assured and self reliant the P is.

Hope you can avoid contact with your one - it can't do you any good to prolong the breaking free.

good luck
Recovery

"Hope you can avoid contact with your one - it can't do you any good to prolong the breaking free.

good luck"

Thanks Recovery. You're right. This is my second attempt. Tomorrow will mark two weeks of no contact. And I still feel sorry for him, still worry about him. Feel sorry for a man incapable of feeling anything for anyone else. No contact is the only way.

Hi KMM56

Congratulations on reaching 2 weeks - that should be the worst bit over - with a lot of luck it will start getting easier for you. Always remember that the person you cared for does not exist - the real p lurks behind the mask.

Keep on going

Recovery

Thanks for the encouragement, Recovery. It is hard to accept that person never existed. But he told what he really was from the start...in hints. I turned a blind eye. I can't do that anymore.

Oh, and back to the subject of this post: my best online friend, who has encouraged me in no-contact, just installed a new firewall. Now every time she and I instant message each other, someone starts portscanning her computer. Using a proxy, she thinks. Could have nothing to do with me. But it only happens when I'm talking to her. So: ways P's manipulate their victims: they go after friends.

Also, just to let people here know, I'll be computerless and offline for a little while. Hope to get back soon. Thanks to everyone and to this site for your support.

Hi

talk to you once you are online again.

good luck

Recovery

I have a firewall called "Black Ice" and everyone who has a PC should have Norton or a similar program.

Di

Good looks, outgoing party ways. The demonstration that they are someone fun to be with. Cheerful, positive, full of smiles. Of course, this could also apply to someone who is not out for the wallet, but looking back, these traits were there in my dealings.

The ability to produce a cover story when needed. This one is a toughie but basically, it won't be a rehearsed one but rather, perhaps, a generated false memory (perhaps rapidly generated) that they can pull on to tell the story. At least, that's how I might explain it.

Let me go further. A rehearsed story can be taken apart, identified, because the accounting of it is the same all the time, it is not seen from a different angle, there is no experience memory to draw on to tell it. A real story does have that memory. A generated memory could produce a believeable story because over repeated questioning, the same account doesn't show up to alert.

But once again, not everyone who has this ability is antisocial. I've got this ability to produce false mental worlds (I call them models); it's very useful role playing and writing fiction.

Whether it is innate or deliberate, there is the ability to recognize the victim's need to trust and there ability to respond as a person who is not antisocial. When being challenge to the truthfulness of the sitiuation, don't respond as anything but the innocent person; don't respond as someone who believes that they are smarter than the interrogator.

Mine probably produced at times truthful situations. Now, whether these actual, non manipulate sitiuations were actually true or a calculated move that one was needed at that time is debatable.

Use the victim's concepts of fairness to the maximum advantage. This one is proably an occupational hazard for me since on the non tactical field, my code of conduct requires that I treat people fairly, recognizing concepts of forgiveness and such.

Do not attack directly a victim in those areas where they are far superior. Few would attack me directly on the tactical field since I have the capability and the will to put them in the hospital in 5 seconds.......they did attack in areas where I could not directly use martial skills.

Secure a patron, a shield to hide behind when necessary, and hold on to that shield as long as possible. This was probably me, the shield. Also a victim, but not necessarily a direct victim.

Finally, note that for female antisocials, it is far easier for them to change their indentity than males. They get married and take on a new name.

This is a late post, but your question grabbed my attention, and I must respond:

How do P's manipulate their victims?

Any which way they can!!!


It would be much shorter to answer this:

When do Ps NOT manipulate other people (since victims are not the only ones manipulated)....

My response would be: When they are ASLEEP!


Wishing everyone health...

Leti