the p who's been in your life. it seems to me to be a great opportunity to explain about such folks. but how does one begin?

i am in the process of clearing out my p's belongings while he's away. he lived with us, i should say off us, for 18mnths. i need to explain to my son's what happened here and why i haven't been upfront with p. they should understand that while under normal circumstances one shouldn't behave like this, that there are times when being 'sneaky' maybe the only option. i did try several times to talk with p to no avail and just gave up and played his game till he left.

star

Hi Star

Keep going - you are doing well and you know what you have to do. I would try to explain about Ps to your sons - and maybe get them some background reading so they can put it all together.
I'm off to do some work!
Good luck

Recovery

hi recovery! have talked a little to my sons. they amaze me. their approach is to be honest and upfront. i was pleased at their response. felt it was healthy and it stopped my questioning whether they could dev into p's.

they have their sense of freedom back at home. p never wanted them around and i believe they picked up on that. it's so nice to have them at home, laughing being cheeky without having p demand my attention or commenting that i should get their dad to pay for them to go to boarding school. some nerve!

it's good to have a sense of self again. still have a long way to go. but am peddling in the right direction - AWAY FROM P! just have to figure out how to tell him to stay in uk.

star
xo

My son, who lives with his p mom, and who has been worked over by his mom regarding his image of me, turned 13 this year. I decided he was now old enough that I could give him some understanding of what has been going on all these years. By the time he was 6, his mother had filed court proceedings against me 13 times. As I said earlier he's 13 now, I'm in court AGAIN, which is another story we I won't go into here.

So I pulled out all the old court papers. I showed him all the allegations his mother had made against me. I showed him written statements from people I have know for years saying the allegations were not true. I showed him written statements from people I have known that worked for Child Protection Services that were witness to incidents. These people were kind enought to keep Child Protection Services out of it. I also gave him a print out of The Socialized Sociopath, which describes the profile of a Sociopath. It's been bad enough that the court just WILL NOT SEE what's going on, and one judge actually said in court when I was trying to address her allegations that "no one ever reads that stuff" and keeps his mother as the primary custodian.

So what were the results? My son hasn't come to visit me since...

Hi SWest,

I am a little confused! You speak of your son, yet you are not his mother, for he lives with his mother. Is he your adopted child? Or does he live with his adopted mother?

"So what were the results? My son hasn't come to visit me since..."

That was not the reaction you had expected and I am so sorry for the pain you must feel right now.

Please realise that a thirteen year old child, who probably already feels caught between warring fractions, is not capable of understanding, let alone knowing what the real truth is. He is likely very confused.

He has neither the required intellectual understanding, nor the requisite maturity to know which one of you are telling him the truth. He does not want to take sides - he just wants to be loved! This is a normal reaction.

With time he may understand what you wanted him to see. My suggestion is to be as caring and compassionate as you can be both with yourself and with him. He is a child, who has inadvertently been put in an untenable position that most adults would have a very hard time dealing with effectively.

Have faith that one day he WILL understand.

Nan

Hi NAn and SWest

I assume that SWest is a the father of the boy who has been turned agasint him by his mother. It is this kind of mother who made it easy for my ex to be believed in court - I was cast as the vindictive lying ex and it is this kind of mother who is letting the fathers4justice lot probably get their way in the uk legal system - making life hell for mothers with a P for an ex. It is because of P parents that we need to lobby for more recognition so that the P parent cant manipulate the sytem nor the child. As usual I am a bit too blunt and to the point - but time flees....

Goodluck SWest in your struggle.

Recovery

Hi Recovery and SWest,

Recovery.....of course! Without even thinking I assumed that you, Swest were a woman. My apologies for making such a stupid error.

I am truly sorry!

Nan

Thanks again for everyone's input. This is a wonderful place to come when you need to know someone out there really DOES understand.

Nan, no offense taken that you assumed I was a woman =). It seems as though the majority of p's are MEN for whatever reason and I can understand why your thoughts may have led you to that assumption.

About my son being old enough to understand. In the US, if a custody dispute arises and the child is 13 or older, the courts will often ask the child which parent they would rather live with. If the courts feel that a child of this age is old enough to make that decision, then they are most probably old enough to start receiving information that may help them understand why their life with their parents isn't like other childrens. And where's the cutoff point between taking a chance of permanent damage to a growing thought process by keeping them in the dark and offering information that may help them understand what defies logic and rational thinking?

Hi SWest,

"...where's the cutoff point between taking a chance of permanent damage to a growing thought process by keeping them in the dark and offering information that may help them understand what defies logic and rational thinking? "

Yes, it's a very tough call. The Courts have decided to create this arbitrary 'Marginot Line' that a 13 year-old is mature enough to decide which parents he/she wants to live with. The internal turmoil would have to be almost unbearable. Most adults I know, irrespective of age, want to be loved and respected by their parents.

May I suggest that you read some of Recovery's old posts. You will discover that she has been through the mill with the Courts and the whole Social Service System in much the same way that you have. The difference being that her ex husband is a P. HE has convinced the Courts and the attending Social system that Recovery is an unfit mother. Not only that, but in choosing to fight him, Recovery has lost her home in order to finance the legal fees. All to NO avail. She is still fighting! Her ex husband continues to make life so difficult for Recovery that she has had to move several times. As well, she is extremely busy at the moment and may not have expressed herself as clearly as she normally does. I know her her well enough to know that all she wanted was to show you that she understands.

I am certain that when you read some of her old posts, you will reconsider your statements about Recovery. Please consider editing your post.

Nan

Hi Swest

My turn to quickly do some venting. I hope you have misunderstood what I meant or else we really are at different sides of the pole. I meant that a female P causes as much damage as a male P. The female P who makes false accusations damages the case of the mothers who are telling the truth. Becuase they deprive the child of the real caring parent then they have a devastating effect on the child while the mother P manipulates the system.

Then you have enraged fathers who want to change the system, on the back of these you have the P fathers who will use every oportunity to do evil - they don't love their children or anyone else. But they want the control.

I am fully on your side and believe the system should be geared to look at the intersts of the child. I too was made to feel guilty by the courts -due to the manipulation by me ex - I know how it feels to be at one against the system

Sorry you got the wrong idea - but I hope the venting made you feel better. The key is for all of us to lobby for changes to take account of a P parent and the devastating effect on the child. To look at each case individually and for the facts to be heard. Not an easy thing to happen when a P is involved.

sorry I did not explain myself well

Recovery

Hi Nan

thanks for the wonderful defense. I think maybe I should have more time to write things down - but I'm so busy. I have tried to explain to Swest that I am on his side - even though it might not have sounded like it.

thanks again

Recovery

Recovery,

I know....I too am very busy, and it's all too easy to literally fall over your own words. I just sent a letter to someone and afterwards discovered that I had neglected to type the word 'not' and now the meaning of that particular sentence is totally twisted around.

I am sure that SWest now understands that you are on his side.

Nan

Nan

Recovery, I truely apologize for my inapropiate rebuttal and personal attack to what I falsley percieved as a point you were trying to make. And I stand beside you in your fight against the legal system. I too have been left with nothing and the system is trying to bleed even more out of me. Believe me I know how that feels.

Thanks SWest

I hope we can all help each other.

best regards

Recovery

Swest,

welcome!

I think Recovery is on your side. You both appear to agree that there is inconsistency and sexism internationally in the application of child custody laws that there is little provision therin to protect children from Ps of both sexes.

Thanks to both of you for broadening our horizons.

Best regards

KT

SWest,

There is no doubt in my mind that your last post to Recovery was sincere and heartfelt. Thank you!

All of us posting here are in need of understanding and support as well as information. Unlike most other forums on the Internet, we request that posters refrain from personal attacks on any other posters. This, specifically because the main focus of this forum is to provide a safe and secure place for everyone to post. Posters may disagree with each other, but we request that it be done in a caring and understanding manner.

As well, many people come here only to read posts and since it is important that the tone of any post is kept within the parameters just mentioned, I request that you edit and rephrase your first post to Recovery. This can be done by by clicking on the EDIT icon on the post in question.

Thank you,

Regards,

Nan

Post deleted by SWest

SWest,

Thank You! I really appreciate your understanding cooperation.

"I may be asked to edit this out as well but I'm going to post a URL......"

YES! You have got it in one. Sorry! While you may post an URL where information pertaining to relevant issues can be found, you may NOT post an URL IF that URL is a site where you plug your own book(s) or your own merchandise.

So, if this URL is of the latter variety, please remove it PDQ.

Thanks so much,

Nan