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#3335 - 04/17/06 12:09 PM Re: General Discussion - [Re: JustAMan]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Hi Justaman

Thankyou too for your helpful reply. I have only recently thought about joining a Christian community. I would need to have another year to build my health up first and there will be problems in finding one where I will be able to protect myself from harmful chemicals, but it seems to me to be the answer rather than stay here and live in isolation. I think that they vary and that some are like a long retreat but others need you to give all of your worldly goods. I don't know what the position would be if you wanted to leave. So yes, it is something that needs a lot of thought and time to consider with some stays at first before commitment and yes it is not wise to make big changes when in a flux. I can see me staying put for at least another year and maybe two.


Yes it is interesting to see how I have changed in two years. In some ways it is worse because I had a sort of delay in all of the pain, not just from p, but from the whole of my life, to come out and be dealt with. It had to be done so it is good. I have learnt to be alone, and I mean nearly totally alone ie I have no one to phone when I feel down. But I have made it.

I have felt that he has taken the boys away from me as they do not seem to have any love for me at all, only distant politeness and i rarely see them but you are right and I should not allow myself to think they are his sons. I must admit that I have thought I could manage my life easier if I thought that I had no children (my daughter to a previous marriage is most definaltely a p but thankfully lives away)

I have been quite shocked at just how much time it takes to heal. The spiritual healing is the most important I think and perhaps not many go on to heal fully by stopping short there. But if we do not go all of the way if you see what I mean, then we have in a way wasted an oportunity. I have learnt recently that it is very important to not try to do it alone. We all need each other. I have been doing it alone. Thanks JAM for your encouraging words that have meant a lot.

love
Mati

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#3336 - 04/17/06 12:55 PM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Deb]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Wow Deb

Your post has blown me away!

I have been torturing myself with the thought that perhaps I could have got him out instead of me leaving, which would mean that I would not be crippled with grief at not seeing my sons, and he would not be using them and draining their energy so much.

I do not know whether my health would have stood up to it though as by the time I had left, he had removed ALL of my parental authority and the boys were blaming me for everything and even acting in a threatening way towards me and yes, treating me like their father did, that I doubted whether I could cope. Maybe a few years earlier but they were adult by then and full of anger and resentment towards me because their poor father was getting himself so upset (drama scenes).

I have been very very sick indeed, and not just because of him. I had ME before I met him so he just made me worse. My illness is one of the ways he got the strongest influence in the home. But you have done what you said. That energy drain has been dammed. Thankyou so much.

I am so so sorry for the pain you have had, and you are the first person I have met who is empathising with mine due to your own. That is just an amazing insight, that they can feel as they do for their father because of me. Wow! It is so true. He has never given them love, and now he gets all of their love. And it should be mine but he has taken it for himself with his little tricks. And now he is sucking his children dry. This is truly an eye opener for me, a light bulb day and I am sure that it will go a long way in changing things.

I know what you mean about being uncomfortable in their presence. They do not want to be in mine either. An hour is about all I can get very very rarely when one son comes to upgrade my computer. He can't wait to leave and I can't wait till he goes yet I miss them so much. Every birthday, Mothers Day and Christmas is so painful as they hardly acknowledge it. And I have been wearing myself out in wondering how I can improve things, and helping them out with money and presents and trying to encourage them.

But what you have said has made me see that it is a no win situation for neither you nor I. They win. For the first time I see that maybe it has been best this way for my own health sake but not for the boys. They have had to suffer. I think that this thought will help me to not give up on them.

Deb, I take my hat off to you, you have managed to be the mother I was unable to be and I am sure that your self sacrifice will be rewarded in the future. Thank God that you found a way to save yourself. I really admire what you are doing, and then on top of it helping me and giving me hope. You are a very special person.

I think that I will be able to pull back now and at the same time, not lose hope . Before I came back on here I was on the point of giving them up. I am so grateful.

Mati

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#3337 - 04/17/06 01:12 PM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Mati]
JustAMan Offline
member

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 186
" but it seems to me to be the answer rather than stay here and live in isolation."
I'm sure you're right on that!!

"I think that they vary and that some are like a long retreat but others need you to give all of your worldly goods. I don't know what the position would be if you wanted to leave."

And I think that is something you should investigate very carelfully before committing to any community. I am not a Christian myself, but it does seem to me that there are two types of Christian lay community. The genuine community which is self governing and run on democratic principles - members have a genuine say in its organisation and day to day running. Then there is the cult dominated by a charismatic psychopath with a messiah complex which mimics a Christian community. Distinguishing the one from the other from a superficial inspection is not easy! Unfortunately once involved with a cult it is not easy to disengage.

The Branch Dravidian community which was centered on the charismatic P David Koresh is a good example. (That this was a cult does not excuse what eventually happened to it at the hands of para-military forces. The Dravidians were I think, more sinned against than sinning)

Basically all Im saying is Caveat emptor - all that glisters is not gold. ( Probably not something that needs to be said to anybody who has ever been involved with a P!)


"I have felt that he has taken the boys away from me as they do not seem to have any love for me at all, only distant politeness and i rarely see them"

The are your sons. Try to hang on how ever you can. You never know, circumstances may change. Don't let the thread snap completely. DO you write to them regularly?


"We all need each other. I have been doing it alone."

Almost impossible. Find a friend you can call when you need to, Mati. You need to get out and get involved with SOMETHING in order to achieve this. We all need somebody we can talk to when down at rock bottom.

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#3338 - 04/18/06 12:33 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: JustAMan]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Hi JAM

"Then there is the cult dominated by a charismatic psychopath with a messiah complex which mimics a Christian community. Distinguishing the one from the other from a superficial inspection is not easy! Unfortunately once involved with a cult it is not easy to disengage."

There must be an awful lot inbetween the two extreme types that you mentioned.I should imagine that the first type are exceedingly rare or if not, it is safest for me to think along those lines. Thankyou for your timely warnings which I have heeded realising how vunerable I am to 'love bombing' being so alone. I have tried to connect to Christian groups on the internet, but I have a problem regarding my health, some groups believing that if one has enough faith then they will be healed, and another finding my circumstances goes against their idea of God taking care of us. The idea of a Christian being too sick to take part in local worship or even too sick to hold a meeting at home is a little too much to comprehand, not knowing of the problems associated with an illness such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity where contact with other people wearing normal personal hygeine products and laundry products will have a possibly damaging after effect. I see that I need to make more effort in connecting to this community who also have known much loss of family, if not because of psychopaths, but because of disbelief of the condition and the need to avoid further damage from chemicals which means life as we know it.

There was a local organisation where a few women formed a support group that I attended last year, and where I met the counselling student that I see, but it turned out to be full of backbiting and gossip and the cousellor was treat very badly and eventually was forced to leave due to the bad effect on her health after she stood up to the leaders in refusing to cancel arranged counselling sessions...but it is a long sad tale and I won't say more. My health has been much worse since and I am unable to do much at all now especially not make local contacts without a negative effect on my health.

I have some contact with one son but very little if any with the other. I thought that it was best to let him have some space when he was resisting contact at first, but it has got worse. Thanks for the suggestion to write to him. I have thought about it before but could not think of what to say to him. He will not open up to me. The endless struggles with my health, social security and my GP fill all of my time and I have just hoped that things would improve with my son. I did ask him over to 'sort out my tv reception' and fix me up for recording, and said I would buy him something he wanted if he did this, and he was grateful, but nothing again although he seems much more polite and respectful than he was previously.

I am so worn out with trying to connect with him that I feel like stopping, though would not say anything so that there is at least an open door still. I just cannot keep exposing myself to the rejection from him though I do keep trying harder because he has communication and social skill problems.

Thanks again JAM. I find it so healing to have contact with a NORMAL caring guy.

Mati

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#3339 - 04/26/06 07:10 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Mati]
Deb Offline
member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 85
Mati,

THANK YOU.

When my world felt like nothing but pain and hurt, I told myself that someday it would all make sense. That somehow good would come out of it. I don't know if I really BELIEVED that, but I told myself so anyway. I had to tell myself something, or I probably would've lost my mind.

Thank you for hearing me. I am so happy that I could help. It actually helps ME to be able to help YOU, if that makes any sense. At the very least, I feel that perhaps I wasn't lying to myself when I said good would come out of the pain.

I hope things are going well for you. Remember too, that kids are more resilient than we give them credit for. Try to concentrate on getting yourself well and then go from there. Imagine how much things will change when your sons have the compare/contrast of their truly psychologically healthy mother v.s. their parasitic P father. You will ultimately help THEM by putting yourself first.

Your ex-P made you ill with all his P tactics, and now is working on keeping you ill with concern for your sons. Meanwhile he is trying to out-sick you with his drama. Turn the tables on him and get well.

Best wishes,
Deb

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#3340 - 04/27/06 07:34 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Deb]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Hi Deb

You did it again. You are just spot on concerning my own situation and what you say is just amazingly helpful. I feel so much better this week after coming back on the board.

I too believe that good can come out of any situation and pain especially if we trust in God or a higher power which I am trying so hard to do at the moment. It is actually the thing that is pulling me through as I am so devestated by the loss of my sons. You are so right though that I must get myself right so that I can help my sons if they turn to me in the future. One of the things that I have faced this week is the need for forgiveness so that I can hand the situation over to God and not get stuck in resentment and bitterness. It sure will turn the tables on him when I get well.One thing I have realised this week is that all of the pain has actually caused a lot of spiritual growth in me, and I appreciate everything so much more now and value love like I never did before. Some people just sail through life and do not have to deal with the pain that being close to a p brings but at the same time, they do not learn the other side of the pain which is how really wonderful life and love is. In a way it is a privilege to experience such pain. I have made a huge leap this week so thanks all and to you Deb as I felt an affinity with you.

Mati

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#3341 - 04/27/06 10:35 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Mati]
Deb Offline
member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 85
OOPS !

Just some correction/clarification to my earlier post. I wrote: "Your ex-P made you ill with all his P tactics, and now is working on keeping you ill with concern for your sons"

P's are sick, but do not make us psychologically ill. They inflict psychological INJURY. Injury and sickness are NOT the same, though at times the injury we suffer certainly makes us FEEL sick sometimes. Recovery is still key, but it helped me to realize I was recovering from an injury inflicted UPON me rather than an illness that emanated FROM WITHIN me.

Sorry for the mistake.

A P cuts into our psyches with a sharp blade and then is careful to revisit the wound to rub salt in it so that it is impossible to heal. (Which is why 'no contact' is so important). The longer you are with them, the more wounds. We then need to recover from the wounds that their sickness has inflicted upon us.

I hope this clarifies my earlier boo-boo.

Thanks!

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#3342 - 05/15/06 04:23 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: Mati]
stunnedhun23 Offline
member

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 96
Hi Mati ~

I've been keeping an eye out for you on the board, and am concerned we haven't heard from you in quite a while. How are you doing?

I know for me time marches on way too slowly at times with everything coated in a cloud of gray indifference. Being basically a shut in, sickly at home has a way of completely disconnecting us from life, as it is hard to relate to others when you lack ordinary interaction. I hate this legacy from my P as I am sure you can relate, and I still am trying to find wings out of this place.

My health is better than a few months ago, but I have a long road back to being the vibrant, happy soul I was 3 years ago. I suffer from rheumatoid arthritis which has been in a perpetual flare since the 1st of the year. I hold much anger that it prevents me enjoying the simplest things that once were the joy of my life... and then feel guilty that I have lost hope when there are so many worse afflictions that could be my burden. I got bad news on my last doctor visit that my hands/wrist have severely deteriorated and I now have osteoporosis in them as well. It explains the daily pain of simple tasks and does not bode well for me career wise as I do computer work. It infuriates me that I was unable to control the stress in my life and now am paying a steep price. Though I am at the same time determined to do my best to stop further degeneration of my joints by taking the best care I can, getting good sleep, eating a balanced diet and trying to find moments of inner peace, while trapped basically in exhile.

I can so relate to the feelings of isolation you have shared in the past... and I think of you often. I do have a small circle of people I communicate with via phone or computer, but am light years from the socially vibrant woman I once was. On the rare occaision I do interact in person, I find I have nothing useful to share... not wanting to share the events that brought me to this dark place, or the bitter resentment I hold at the price I continue to pay for not having heeded the red flags of the P. I have has acquaintences tell me to just paint on a happy face, and you will feel better, but I just am not capable of such phoniness, it seems too P like for me.

I keep my pets near and the music on instead, hoping that one day I will find more of myself to be able to return to "normal" human interaction. I keep praying for God to take this disease and its pain away, or to lead me to a better way to cope with it. And I am thankful for souls such as you who can relate to this exhile, and remind me no matter how bad it seems that I am not alone, and I will prevail.

I hope this finds you well Mati... please drop a note when you can and know I am holding you in thoughts and prayers and wanting more than anything for us BOTH to find a path from this unhappiness.

Love & hugs,
SFH23


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#3343 - 05/17/06 07:54 AM Re: General Discussion - [Re: stunnedhun23]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Hi hun

Thanks so much for writing to me and thinking about me. That has brought me a smile and some comfort on this lonely road. Well not so much lonely now, more alone which is different. Reading through the posts on this page, I am amazed that things have really looked up quite a bit.

First of all, I have made an inroad on improving my health and have been able to stop binge eating. I bought a sauna and using it regularly, and went on a no sugar, white, flour, alcohol and high omega-3 diet and after just over a week I see a difference. My weight is shifting, and a lot of pain has gone. I am eating loads of oily fish. This has started me hoping things will get better.

I have also made a lot of spiritual progress as I see that it is the only way out of the pit I am in. From my reading of Hinds Feet and now St John of the Cross, I am nearer being able to accept the loss of my sons. I have decided to concentrate on books like these which will lift my spirit and give me more hope for the future. I am not going to struggle to keep contact with them any more as they are adults. They know my door is open, but I am now going to concentrate on me. I wanted to get them to understand the psychiatric damage that was done to me especialy in the months before I left, but instead of churning it around in my head and how I was going to say it, I am just going to leave it up to God now. If they do not want to listen or understand and continue to see thier father as the victim then I should not force them to change their reality. Perhaps they will have to learn the hard way, but as things stand everything backfires on me and p gets even more control of them.

This all sounds good and I know that by next week I can be thrown back into the pits of despair, but I know the way out better now and it is through understanding my situation from a spiritual point of view and that sanctification or joining with Christ involves acceptance of the situation that we find ourselves in, and forgiveness.

I have heard of a Christian community in Germany who are striving to live naturally, and who provide a service for the mentally disabled, through horse riding. I am hoping to visit them when I feel better. They sound very uncultlike.

I so understand the struggles you have, with not being able to find things to say to others who are having a life and not being able to hide your pain. And your desperation that your situation could end. One of the things that is helping me is to think ah! I do not have cancer, praise God. But this has only come recently.

Hun, hold on, it will get better. It takes a long time much longer than I could imagine, and I am not out of it yet as the waves of pain still overwhelm me despite progress for a few days.

It is a comfort that there are others yes. A great comfort that there is an army of the dispossed out there. We are not alone, and actually we are in a position of the possibility of great transision and growth of spirit being cut off from all of the expectations we had of life.

I will be praying for you and thanks for saying you are praying for me. This is a hard road to travel and it takes us longer to get there but I believe that the rewards will equal the pain we are going through.

God bless
Mati

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#3344 - 05/18/06 10:45 PM Re: General Discussion - [Re: stunnedhun23]
Mati Offline
member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 169
Hi again hun

I thought that you might like to hear about a trip I am taking to Germany. I met a Christian on a message board who lives there and who told me about a community there called Nehemiah's Yard, who welcome others to stay for a while who are in pain or sick, and they show them love. They also provide a riding school for those with special needs. Also they are into natural living, healthy food and remedies.They do not charge for the stay. My friend is meeting me at the airport and taking me there where I will be able to have analysis done and advice given on my health. I go in two weeks.

It is wonderful and from God I think. I will stay for two weeks and hopefully come home in a better state then I am in at present and spiritually uplifted through having fellowship with believers. I do not feel able to do the journey at present but am just trusting God for that.

Mati
xx

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