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#3415 - 03/27/07 02:13 AM General discussion - Part three [Re: Dianne E.]
sealistener Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 11
Hi everyone,
I would like to comment on the possible origin of psychopathy.
I think that we are still born with different make-ups of our brains that had their purpose and meaning in the Stone age.
In a simplified way, all our traits are meant to act for the survival of an individual, or a group.
I think that certain percentage of people are designed without feeling in order that in a fight against enemy, or animals, they would go and be able to kill without hesitation or compassion, in order to defend his group.
Others in a group are born sensitive, compassionate, etc., designed for another task in an altruistic society, similar to ants society.
Psychopats just don't fit in our civilized age. Non-criminal Psychopath just only "kill" a business partner, to act on their way of thinking.
I have a lot of bad experience with psychopats through all my life as everybody, I am sure. At least in a workplace, there seems always be one of them.
I just tried to explain to myself in a simplified way why they are so horribly different from the mainstream in their behaviour.


Edited by sealistener (04/01/07 06:51 PM)

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#3416 - 03/27/07 02:02 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sealistener]
denfox Offline
member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 82
Hi sealistener,

Maybe it would be helpful if you were to share some of your experiences with psychopaths here.

Dianne once wrote a post with a story about a young man who felt the good and evil struggling within him and asked his grandfather which would win. The grandfather replied, whichever one you feed. Perhaps, Dianne would be willing to repost the full story.

I don't think I buy into your theory of a purpose. A hammar has no purpose until you pick it up and use it. Why should there be a purpose for those who lack a conscience? No explanation is required.

-denfox

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#3417 - 03/27/07 03:38 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sealistener]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
Hi Den, I wish I could get the graphics to show up. If anyone wants an original (the graphics are very nice), this came to me from a very dear friend.

Cherokee Wisdom.....


Two Wolves

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a
battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son,

The battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all.

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret,
greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment

Inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence,
empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."


The grandson thought about it for a minute
and then asked his grandfather,

"Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

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#3418 - 03/27/07 08:40 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: denfox]
sealistener Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 11
Hi Denfox,

I wrote you an answer, but I actually didn't know how to post it. I thought that I was posting it but I couldn't see it. I am new to this site.
I wanted to share my story about my sister.
Psychopats don't have consience planted in their heads so they would be able to do the bad things, but it was planned by nature to do it only to enemies as a defence for the tribe, etc., not in a civilized society. Our brain though still have the same primitive instincts, the scientists say.
Because we don't live in the Stone age anymore they are just fighting with everybody around. Everybody is like an enemy to them, I gather.
But it is true that my sister would protect me against others abusers. I am her possession in her view - for her abuse only. She cannot understand what she really feels.
She always says that she is manipulating everybody because she wants to help them. She cannot see how self-centred her actions are.
She wants to be a "leader", have her obedient "soldiers" tightly around so that she would be strong, but for who?

Had she gotten a better education for herself, she would've loved to be a boss in a workplace. She always liked gardening. She could have been a good boss in that field, I guess. But her nature was to get everything in an easy way, through the efforts of others. She didn't like school much because she couldn't be the best. Now she has an early retirement from an office job and seems like not satisfied with her life.

Sorry to give you such a long, akward explanation.

Sealistener


Edited by sealistener (04/01/07 06:55 PM)

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#3419 - 03/27/07 09:03 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three *DELETED* [Re: denfox]
sealistener Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 11
Post deleted by sealistener


Edited by sealistener (03/31/07 11:39 PM)

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#3420 - 03/28/07 10:17 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sealistener]
denfox Offline
member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 82
Hi Sealistener,

It sounds like you are a natural peacemaker. You probably grew up with some turmoil around you, until that day you were strong enough to overthrow your sister and became the peacemaker in the family. You're probably the one who patches things up and cleans up the emotional messes after your sister comes through.

While it may appear that your sister would protect you, I'll bet that an objective analysis would show that she has caused you more pain in your life than good. Do not feel sad for her, she will not feel sad for you. Just live your life better, be the person you are meant to be and maintain your distance. You owe her less than she owes you, and that is a debt she will never recognize.

So, how did you find this board? What led you here, were you looking because of your experience with your sister?

Sincerely,
denfox

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#3421 - 03/29/07 12:19 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: denfox]
sealistener Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 11
Hi denfox,

thank you for your answer. I found this site through the Dr. Hare site, somewhere there.
Since I was young, I liked psychology. I always wanted to understand people as I didn't learn it at home. I grew up with my older, old-fashioned mother who was always sad and grumpy about her fate. I didn't believed in fate.
I could see that I couldn't make peace between my mother and my sister. She was a rebelious child and mom was blaming it her genes, saying the she must had inhereted them from my absent father. When I was fifteen, I told myself that I had to get out and I just had the chance. In the school system, the grade nine was the end of so called basic education and students went to trade schools, or vocational high schools. I intentionally chose a vocational high school that was in a different town. In communism, schooling was for free, and I even was getting a stipend because my mom had low income. I was thriving there for two years, going home for a weekend twice a month.
Then my mom and my sister moved there also, and I was living at home again. I could see what a nerve wreck I became again.
We lived modestly, and I never had my own room. It was a hard time. Still, a young person can endure a lot. I was always able to keep hope for a better future. However, by a coincidence, my sister and me got married at the same time, and were living close to each other again. I was living at East Europe, and it was just enough luck to get an appartment. After that, everybody stayed put for years. At least, all our kids played together. They liked to play in my place, and I enjoyed that.

I was able to kind of laugh off my sister's put downs and so on, until I was 40 years old and my kids were grown.
I guess that around that age one would like to feel more respect. My sister would comment often that I was a cold personality and keeping wall around myself, etc. It is also the expression that she would have on her face, like if they are disgusted with you. That would make me furious.
Over the years, I would stop talking to my sister for a few years, and my family supported me in that. And then, I would think that it was wrong not to talk to a sister. When she would make some move towards talking again, I was glad and thought that it could be different. I never had a problem to forget about the past, but it could be done only if the situation would not repeat itself.
I also think that I wanted eventually to win over her and change her. Now, I live in Canada for several years,and I feel here very happy.
I found people here so positive, friendly, supportive.
I am healing.
My sister visited me this summer. She liked it here. I know her that she would like something so much, or not at all. There is no medium. She most liked my view from my window, and the scenery. But the conversation was very stressful. She wanted to straighten me out and put her sense in my mind.

I was reading in other posts about the bond with an abuser, how hard it is to break. These personalities are so intnse that it might seem like they are strong, and can even sometimes protect us, but they always have to get much more than they would give. They often seem easy going and one can have a false sense that they can have some relaxing time with them. But then one have to pay for it later very dearly.

They would also often repeat what they had done for you, but they forget what they took out of you. They are always right and others are wrong.

Somehow, in my life, I was always lucky enough, and every cloud had a silver lining around it after all.
My sister's nature helped me to realize who I was and who I wanted to be, and who I didn't want to be.

I can see only one solution in a family situation.
It is to keep the difficult relationship very distant. The way there is still some contanct but not the trauma.
It also helps me to understand that the person cannot change. I try to feel sorry and even compassionate for what who they must be. I know a couple of difficult people to talk to, and I can see that they cannot change even in older age.

Thank you for letting me talk,
listener

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#3422 - 03/29/07 01:56 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three *DELETED* [Re: denfox]
sealistener Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 11
Post deleted by sealistener


Edited by sealistener (03/31/07 08:16 PM)

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#3423 - 03/29/07 11:15 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sealistener]
denfox Offline
member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 82
Hi Sea Listener,

I think you must be a very strong person. Canada is a beautiful place and it makes people strong. I am very touched by what you write and am glad that you find solace here.

When I first came here, I was going through a terrible ordeal with a psychopath boss. I could feel the weight and the stress leaving me through my fingers as I typed.

When I was very young, 5 or 6, I recall thinking that my family was very strange. I thought to myself, that's okay, they're not asking me to do anything wrong. I will be obedient and go along. When I am older, then I will become my own person. When I was 12, I thought now I am old enough, I will be myself. But, I still did things because of my family. When I was 18, I thought now I am free I will be my own man. When I was 20, I thought I wasn't really free before, but now I will surely be my own man. When I was 30, I realized I was still living my life for them and I swore that I would now live it for myself. When I was 40, I thought finally, I am surely my own man. Now, I think that perhaps should I live to be 100, then I may become my own man.

I don't know what it all means (or, maybe I do), but I know it is important that we all strive to be our true selves. Maybe it is the journey that matters, so we should learn to enjoy the growing. I wish to be free to be me.

It sounds like you may be something of a writer, with long letters and such. I think your story is so touching, bitter and sweet, and beautiful that you should write it down. Maybe you could write it as a letter to your grandchildrens' grandchildren? I think you're a beautiful person and your story should be recorded.

Some people seem to be forever locked in their past. We hope to do better. Perhaps, you may finally be free to be yourself.

Best Wishes,
denfox

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#3424 - 03/29/07 11:50 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sealistener]
denfox Offline
member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 82
Hi Sea Listener,

One more thought, don't become a slave to her letters.

I recently realized that I had become a slave to email, IM and my cell phone... then, I said to myself, hey you know what? These things are for my convenience, not somebody else's. If it upsets you, put it down. You can always come back to it later.

Have a good day,
denfox

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