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#3235 - 09/06/04 08:54 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Nan]
sarah Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 82
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Nan, Sylvie and Mati,

Nan you wrote <The effect this man has on you is very negative and for different reasons you seem unable to resist him>.

I think he has this irresistable kind of effect on everyone he comes in contact with, he is very charming, and he can really, as they say, "work the room". Also he looks like Adrian Paul!, The Highlander, which doesn`t do much to help your resistance.

And you mention the very negative effect he has on me. It must be what he did to me when I still a child. Which has effected all of my personal relationships with other men, though I didn`t realise it.

He used my need for a family this time with our daughter and grandson... He knew I wanted what I`ve never had. And deceitfully... he painted me a picture of hope, and then cruelly... he took it away.

Nan you also wrote <What he wants is NOT you, but the power associated with you being available to him. It does not matter to him that your availability is on an extremely reluctant basis, so long as you ARE available.>

So true, no matter how many times I blew him off, it just made him chase harder. He likes the power he feels when I finally gave in. Then I guess he punished me for not giving in sooner, for making him work hard to get control of me. What he don`t know yet is this was the last time. I won this one. I`ve got the power to reject him and take care of my needs and he really hates that! I am NOT available to him! He will not hear anything from me, never!

Thank you Nan, you are helping me put the pieces of this puzzle together! And every post here helps me know I`m not alone. Hope I can help others too.

Back to my story:

P#1 had been calling me since his divorce, asking me out....me turning him down. For a couple of years he`d been trying to get me to let him come over, and since my daughter was the only thing we had in common, all I talked about was her.

When I`d tell my daughter he`d called again she wasn`t at all interested. I told her that he kept on asking to see me, but she didn`t want me to see him. I told her since he wasn`t giving up, that maybe he was regretting not being close to her after all these years and for all I knew he could be trying to see me so he could establish a relationship with her...But she said she thought he was only interested in me, not her. And since he had never given her one ounce of interest or support when she was growing up, why would she think anything else.

I`ll add that this was also during the time P#2 (the Sadist) was in contact with her, (without my knowledge) pretending to be her Dad, brainwashing her. What he did, in effect, was make her wonder if I had lied to her all her life. (hope I`m making this clear... It is the madness of a P) And as far as she could tell, it looked to her like HE must have thought he was her father, but HE knew all along he wasn`t, we were legally seperated when she was conceived. He was leading her on.

Anyway, he had his other daughter (who wasn`t his real daughter either) befriend her. And the school allowed him access to her just before she graduated. (which they weren`t suppossed to do) You see, I had blocked my phone from his daughters calls so she called the school and found a way around me, and sent her a cell phone so they could talk to each other. But P#2 was behind the whole thing and my daughter didn`t know it. He had her sneaking around, making it seem like I was the bad guy, keeping her away from her only sister, who was NOT her sister NOR was she even P#2`s daughter!!!

But he planted a doubt in her mind about my truthfulness. She began to think maybe had I told her he wasn`t her Dad because I wanted to keep her away from him since he was abusive. Logical?... Maybe?... If I had ever lied to her before about such important. While he had been in and out of prison for most of his life for felonies. But he had a plan, and he needed her on His side to succeed in his plan.

Meanwhile P#1, the "child molester of my youth" was persistent, (thanks again Nan for helping with my denial). P#1 didn`t have much to say, when he found out P#2 was stalking me, or sneaking around behind my back to get at my (HIS) daughter. Why would he care about OUR safety?? Of course he never did before. He probably needed a babysitter to watch his kids from his last marriage, and I was available!

But, my daughter MADE P#1 take notice, when she told him that since P#1 was `ACTING` like he was her father that she wasn`t sure, and she wanted a DNA test so he could prove it to her? He agreed to do it and he paid for it. (I couldn`t believe he didn`t want HER to pay for it)!

I can`t tell you how stunned I was that P#2 managed to make her doubt me enough to where she needed proof! Though at the same time it was good to put it to rest. So she would know that P#2 was up to no good. I showed her the divorce papers that showed we were legally seperated at the time, proving that P#2 had always known that she wasn`t his daughter. And the DNA test wiped settled the whole thing.

So... now P#1 was put on the spot. Did he want to be a real Dad to her? Or was he just needing a babysitter, like I first thought?

Come to find out (of course) P#1 WAS just needing someone to take care of his kids, cause he was getting custody of them. He had been taking this poor woman to court for years, he has a lawyer on a retainer basis, made her fight till she went broke and he got 2 of the 3 kids. He works all over the the USA and needs a babysitter. He knew I was alone and probably lonely and available to him,... Or so he thought! What he didn`t know was that I`d had therapy, diagnosed with Major Depression, PTSD and I had learned to look for the "red flags" of the controller/abuser.

He hadn`t anticipated that I would check him out. I looked into his past and I questioned him about everything. He had hit his x-wives, (Of course, only when they deserved it, he said!)...(Huge Red Flag) But still my family said that he`s a different man now, Yeah Right!!!

Well, he was in a dangerous "Outlaw" biker club after Vietnam, one like Hell`s Angels. I found out (not from him) that they were so mean, they almost killed each other off! He was shot with a large calibur pistol, (like the one Dirty Harry carried) after he came back from the war! This was still the guy my mom wanted for me! Yeah, and she was still encouraging it, even after she KNEW all of this stuff I was finding out about him!!!

But he said he "wasn`t the same person". That, that other man was "Dead"! He said he even changed his name. Hmmmm... Well, when he told me this, then all I wanted to know about was this man that he said was dead. So, he told me, braggingly, that he was the guy that "collected the money" for the club... I said, "oh, like the Mafia"? He said, "yeah sorta", he was so cocky, and immature, like I should be impressed or something...God, I was horrified!!!, but I didn`t let it show. He said he`d been out of it for a long time. They had a ceremony where they burned his patch! (whatever that means, I`m not criminal/biker trash)...

Well later he introduced me to the one the guys he called the "X-Seargent of Arms" from the club and was gonna have him do some work on my home, which I badly need done... But I told him I wasn`t comfortable with an X-biker in my home!!! I don`t think he liked that too much, so he didn`t help me at all with anything!(since I wouldn`t let his trash do the work). What would I owe them???, I asked him. "Nothing", he said, "they are my brothers". (YEAH RIGHT!) Then I told him it sounded like they were little "lost boys" who needed a crutch, that they can`t make it on there own (like I`ve had to do all of my life). I called them immature boys like the "Spanky and Our Gang","No Girls Allowed" Club.... Of course I told him that on the phone! I`m not THAT brave... or that stupid!..

(I`m editing some of my story by request of the person who told me some of the secrets about him, who would be in danger, if P ever found out)

He did prison time for "*** *******", he shot at his wife. And these are the things he talks about to people!!!

I found out from other people that he was one of the top guys who ordered ******* and ****, that they ******* ***** ****, stole anything, ran ********* labs too. He is truely a horrible person...

Then he comes around here acting like he`s as pure as the driven snow, bragging about his respectable job he has now and how much money he makes... Amazingly, he is the Supervisor of his trade, he IS at the top.... BUT how did he get there???... They have jobs only for a cover. They never get out, they can`t. He is in "organized crime", and they are in it for life. He must think I`m really stupid.

He sure did flatter me (at first) though, saying things like, "you did such a good job raising the kids alone" and "Your a good Mom"... (Yeah?, and no thanks to you), thank God he wasn`t here ... If P#1 had come around here and tried to take my baby away from me when she was small, he would have had to kill me first... And I did tell him that!

I`ll tell more of my story later, about how P#1 suddenly dumped me... Oh, and how my mother suddenly dumped me too shortly afterward.

I hope I`m not boring you all with too many details. I`ll try to finish it the next time.

This board is helping me see things,(besides the obvious) about P#1 that I`ve been denying for too many years. Thank you Nan, and all of you for your greatly needed help!!!

---------------------------------------

... Here is something else I wrote in my journal right after he dumped me...(this is before reading about psychopaths)

THE STORM

Like a bad storm, you come into my life and then you leave again. After the damage is done, you disappear without a trace. You leave behind the broken, shattered pieces. But you never look back to see what you`ve caused. I was just in the path of your destruction. You have no guilt because that`s the nature of a storm. Storms cause terrible disasters, and it`s victims are caught off guard. Never prepared for their heartless fury. So swiftly they come and go. Wreaking havoc with no conscience, no direction. Leaving only pain and suffering in their wake.

Now I have to pick up the broken pieces and live on, with a little less of myself than I had before. Again, I have to rebuild what you have left behind. This time you didn`t take as much as before. Maybe I was more prepared, more aware of prote cting myself from you. As I go forward I will never forget how you are, how in your nature you are cruel and inhumane. I`ll build my walls higher and thicker this time to protect me from you. And maybe next time I`ll see you coming and I`ll run for shelter and avoid getting hurt at all. But for now, I`m a little less trusting of the world and it`s storms... that we call men.

(I edited to try and fix some things that I felt I hadn`t made clear, and some of the wording to make it more readable. Also to protect the person who told me things about P#1)


Edited by sarah (09/09/04 04:16 AM)
_________________________
Sarah

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#3236 - 09/06/04 10:53 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sarah]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hi Sarah,

Just a shortie. I will answer your post in a day or two.

You ask:

"I hope I`m not boring you all with too many details."

Not at all. Don't worry. Keep writing.

"I`ll try to finish it the next time."

You'll finish when you are ready to finish. Remember: It ain't over till it's over.

Just write, Sarah.

Hug,

Nan


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#3237 - 09/06/04 04:29 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Nan]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi there Nan
<br>
<br>No problem. Many stories to keep track off, all sad to different degrees.
<br>
<br>You're right (about it being a reasoned decision to break up with Psychopath) and I think I do sometimes give myself credit for that and ought to. I was in my late 20s. He started making comments like "over the hill" etc., I guess to scare me into getting married. Rolled right off my back.
<br>
<br>Yes, I've been skittish for a long time but also want to be in a good financial condition before getting serious with someone. Have to admit the hazel eyed man still occupies my thoughts, he's such a force of nature. I probably still think of him partly to get my mind off the Psychopath situations. Only partly now! That's nice that you're comfortable being by yourself until the right time comes along.
<br>
<br>You hit the nail on the head about a Psychopath boss having high expectations. Mine did and so I pulled out all the stops to get things done well. Actually don't mind the bar being set high. Helped a great deal that I too love my work. Yes, I guess I still recoil at showing any sociability with a Psychopath. They are self righteous aren't they, when called on anything.
<br>
<br>You asked if my back was against the wall in both situations, work and family. Yes, in a way. While I don't work with Psychopath anymore, I don't have my livelihood back and am still struggling with that. In fact, the reason I've been cranky the last couple of weeks is because if I'm going to file a lawsuit, I have to do it very soon. The assessment from a lawyer isn't good. Seems Psychopath structured it in a way that would make it difficult for me to prevail legally. Not impossible, but a big challenge. No surprise there. However, I've been gypped out of so much money that I really need to look at it thoroughly.
<br>
<br>About my relative, I too have debated whether she is just a bully or a full-blown Psychopath (pretty certain her husband has APD). Is that the same as a Psychopath? Can those two terms be used interchangeably? Her complete lack of conscience at destoying my reputation, siding with the Psychopath I dated etc., swindling people through fraudulent schemes, extramarital stuff makes me think she's more than just a bully. This is actually a point I was going to bring up anyway. I'm certain I've seen some fear or concern in all three Psychopaths when they feel that they may have pushed things too far and someone is finally going to get the authorities involved. Yet I still firmly believe that my ex and former boss are Psychopaths. I think they do have some feelings but they are able to set them aside in a ruthless, almost primal (survivalist) way that the rest of us would not be able to do so easily if at all.
<br>
<br>You're right that I have to be careful. But the Psychopath (or bully) relatives have been at it for a long time and I do not believe they intend to stop. In fact, they seem emboldened by the fact that they've gotten away with it. For instance, based on past behaviour, I believe that they would try to cause problems for me if I went back to the corporate world or if I get married.
<br>
<br>Feel a little like I'm caught in a Psychopath web. Perhaps if they have a criminal record, it will be easier for me to address it if they try to harass me in future because at least their names will be in a database.
<br>
<br>I've been concerned about my health, that's why I need to come up with a solution. It's not risk free by any means, but as I said to Mati, there's never any easy, obvious solutions when it comes to Psychopaths. I have noticed though, that they don't seem to interfere with people if they think there would be repercussions. They see me as vulnerable now because of my job situation. I've known my relative's husband for at least twenty years. Can't stand him and resent the fact that my relative expects me to adjust to and accomodate his antisocial behaviour. They were out of the country for a couple of weeks and I felt more peaceful even though they live 30 mins away and I hardly see them even normally. They use proxy harassers very well since we belong to a community.
<br>
<br>It's a tough call but I can't take more of the same. See, you understand wanting it to stop because you've been there. Some relatives seem to think that I'm sensitive or whatever. Good news is that I don't care what they think anymore.
<br>
<br>I had initiated a response by threatening to go to the police. Bad outcome, in fact I'm bothered enough by what happened that I can't talk about it. So I know to take you seriously when you caution me. However, now that I threatened to do it, if I don't go ahead I think it will make me look toothless and weak.
<br>
<br>It won't stop on it's own, that's the only thing I know for certain.
<br>
<br>Regards,
<br>
<br>Sylvie
<br>
<br>
<br>

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#3238 - 09/06/04 04:45 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sarah]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi Sarah,

My post is a brief one too right now but I will try to get back to you later in the week.

You will find the more time you spend away from the P the more empowered and confident you will feel. It's almost a heady feeling after being controlled and manipulated by them for so long. When you are involved with him, he envelopes you in his world (and tentacles) in a way that makes one forget that there are normal, well adjusted men out there. You know that's his intent, to keep you vulnerable to his charms. After I broke up with the P I dated, I felt only contempt for him when I saw him. You see them for the irreversibly damaged people that they are. There's no changing that. That's the brutal truth and you'll be better off for realizing it.

You take care,

Sylvie

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#3239 - 09/07/04 02:22 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sylvie25]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hi Sylvie,


This is more than a little up front: but have you considered leaving your community and moving to another State, preferably one a few States away?

What makes me ask you this hard question are several observations.

1. You feel totally alienated from your family – in fact, they are harassing you.
2. You suggest that this harassment is in large part a community effort.
3. Your former employment is, I assume, in your home State.
4. You are self-employed now and ought to be able to continue with that.
5. You tend to stay at home, which suggest that you are fairly uncomfortable with your environment
6. Not withstanding what is happening right now, it seems to me that you have guts and determination.
7. It seems to me that if only you got away from all these soul-destroying situations, that you would heal fairly quickly.
8. With your guts and your determination you could make it anywhere.

Some tough questions. Please do not feel compelled to answer.

1. What keeps you in the community?
2. Are your ties to this community so strong that it is unthinkable to leave it?
3. Why would you choose to stay and fight a bunch of toothless-good-for-nothing relatives, whose opinion does not matter to you?
4. Why be like Custer?

You write:

“I had initiated a response by threatening to go to the police. Bad outcome, in fact I'm bothered enough by what happened that I can't talk about it.”

Yes, indeed! Bad things do happen to good people.

“ So I know to take you seriously when you caution me.”

I am glad.

” However, now that I threatened to do it, if I don't go ahead I think it will make me look toothless and weak. “

Are you so concerned with how it will look to others that you forget the cost to yourself? Since you have no regard for these relatives who, by the way, are so weak and toothless that they resort to proxy harassers, why worry even a little what they think?

You seem to be spending a great deal of your available energy on a pointless enterprise. Why not take that energy and use it where it matters – for yourself? Leave pride alone. What good it is to win the battle, but lose the war?

Please realise, Sylvie, that I do understand your position and your feelings. It takes guts and determination and a strong sense of self worth and self-preservation to allow for the fact that pride and a desire for revenge (oh yes, I know), are short-term satisfactions that pale in the face of losing your Self.

In the words of Dr. Phil: ‘Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?’

Thinking of you,

Nan







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#3240 - 09/08/04 06:53 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Nan]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi Nan,

Thanks for your post - I'm thinking about what you said. I'll respond to it on the weekend.

Regards,
Sylvie

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#3241 - 09/08/04 11:23 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sylvie25]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Sylvie,

You realise, I hope, that my observations and questions are for you alone. There is no need for you to answer anything in this public sphere.

Should you wish to, you may write me privately. it can be done so that we both retain absolute privacy. You can write to Dianne, who will copy your message and send it to me. If you do, I will reply to you through Dianne. It will take a little time for the messages to wind their way back and forth. It's merely a suggestion.

This mode of communication is not something I normally wish to engage in. However, if it appeals to you, Sylvie, let me know.

Nan


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#3242 - 09/09/04 05:11 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Nan]
sarah Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 82
Loc: U.S.A.
I DIDN`T KNOW ABOUT PSYCHOPATHS...I THOUGHT OF TED BUNDY AS A PSYCHOPATH... I DIDN`T KNOW I WAS WITH ONE....

I Know Now

AT THE HEIGHT OF HIS SEDUCTION:

From my journal
Sept. 3, 2003

When you touch me so perfectly, I cry... It`s so beautiful, I cry... Your hands understand what my skin craves... They speak to my body things that words could never say... I feel joy and sadness, pain and pleasure at once! When you touch me... I sigh, I tremble, I cry... But why? I don`t understand it, but my body does... Your hands know what I need, they know just what to do. My skin has been waiting for your touch... My cold, deprived skin has been dying. Your hands warm my neglected skin and make it live again.... I need your touch. I need it so I won`t die. Please, touch me again...


------------------------------------------------------
"There are none so blind as those that will not see"
-------------------------------------------------------


WHEN HE DUMPED ME...HE SAID I WAS TOO EMOTIONAL...
BUT HE WAS THE ONE BEING EMOTIONAL...(anger out of the blue)
I WAS BEING AFRAID... AFRAID OF HIS ANGER...

I still didn`t know what a P was

From my jounal
Feb. 15, 2004

Is that what you call love? Your love is cold. It is dead. Your heart is filled with resentment and paranoid delusions. You are afraid of being seen for the little boy that you really are, so you hide behind this macho veneer. Outside you look calm, but inside you`re raging and hurting and wanting someone to know.

You`re pathetic, and it`s really too bad that you don`t know how to open up. You almost did this time. You just couldn`t let me see the real you. You think the real you is too bad for people to see I guess, so you hide. What you don`t understand is that I can see through all that macho stuff you present to the world. I can see the real man, and the hurting, angry little boy inside you too. And I`m not afraid of that real person in there. What I fear is that cold, false man that you show the world.

I could have helped the hurting man inside and I could have helped clam the angry little boy that needs to learn to control his impulses and grow up. But you wouldn`t let me go all the way inside of your heart. You rejected me before I could go further. How sad you must be... I know how bad you needed me. I`ve never felt that needed by anyone in the same way you needed me. It`s in everything about you, you were reaching for help, but you`re afraid of needing someone. You`re afraid I`ll reject you for being needy. So you rejected me, and you broke my heart again!

I`ll get over it though, and you`ll still be the lost little boy in a macho man`s body... Oh, Well...
_________________________
Sarah

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#3243 - 09/09/04 04:58 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Nan]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi Nan,

I was starting to suspect that you are a little psychic, now I know for sure! : ) At a minimum, you are astute (and as I say that, it makes me shake my head wistfully that Ps can victimize so many different personalities).

That's the challenge in writing about these issues in a public forum. I've been trying to find a balance between providing enough detail so that the situation can be understood, but not provide so much that it gives away my privacy/identity (or is too onerous to read). Having said that, it's been helpful to post here, get feedback, and read about other people's experiences. I'm glad the forum exists.

I will post a partial response here on the weekend just to clarify some points and also take you up on your offer to write to you through Diane.

Thanks for that.

Sylvie

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#3244 - 09/10/04 01:45 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sylvie25]
Nan Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 501
Hi Sylvie,

Thank you <smile>.

I will wait for your response that will be coming through Dianne.

Just take your time.

Nan


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