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#3405 - 11/07/06 10:32 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Dianne E.]
movingon Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 4
What I remember from our fight was that his stare was very intense and there seemed to be an intense anger in his eyes. I didn't really see an "icy stare". It felt like a wall was thrown up between us, a complete withdrawal or punishment.


To further the story, he is in trouble, of course, and is getting ready to be sentenced. I went with him to see his attorney. This was the week that our business relationship blew up.

Along with my P, I was asking the attorney what would happen in the sentencing. At one point, I began to explain what my P went through growing up. The attorney leaned in, began taking notes, and was listening very intently.

At the end of the meeting my P asked the attorney if anyone should speak on his behalf. The attorney emphatically suggested that I speak and wanted to make sure that I was going to be there. I have counseled inmates in the past and the attorney thought that my words would carry weight. It was odd because my P was not the focus at that point. I don't think that he was very pleased that I had usurped his position.

When we got in the car, the attorney called to make sure that I had written a character letter on my P's behalf. I thought that I would have been the hero of the day. Well, you would have thought that I had just handed him a bag of wet garbage. This was on a Tuesday. He immediately began distancing himself from me. He began critiquing my driving, how I handled conversations, etc. He even called himself a puppet master jokingly. I had a uneasy, indescribable feeling in my stomach that something was not right.

When the argument erupted three days later, all he could say was that I had brought emotion into the situation and that this was strictly a business relationship and there was no room for emotion. It was a horrible display of projection.

I felt like I was in the twilight zone. In our conversations since our fight, he continues to say he doesn't know what happened to me. I just let it go. I have wanted so desperately not to believe that he was sick and I have exhausted every angle in my denial, but alas, a duck is a duck.

No, he and I aren't in business together anymore. Since he refused to accept what I said, I told him that I was sorry that it had to end that way and left. I put some safety guards in place to make sure that if something happened I would be able to come out with minimal damage. I guess that I knew it all along.

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#3406 - 11/07/06 11:56 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: movingon]
Deb Offline
member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 85
Movingon,

Something here really clicks for me.

A psychopath is happy with a relationship as long as the person they are in it with believes all the lies that have been told. When the other person starts to question or seek the truth, the carefully constructed illusion is threatened and P's go into survival mode, a.k.a. scorch and burn.

It makes sense that your P lied about his past. (They really can't do anything BUT lie, so that is a safe assumption on my part...lol.) Here you were, willing to go and TESTIFY about things he had told you. You were going to proclaim things that he told you and possibly expose him for the liar that he really is. Oh-oh. It was just too scary to think that through this, the truth about him might have come out.

You might not have been actively questioning, but the threat of exposed truth was still there for him. P's are terrified of the truth. That was enough to send him into de-valuation mode, hence all the criticisms he began firing at you. You had scared the crap out of him and now who you were and what you knew had to be discounted.

Three days later, he does an inconsiderate and unreasonable thing, which you respond to by asking for courtesy. He explodes and projects the unreasonableness onto you. That is part of the scorch and burn. Anything you did say (either in court or not) that could damage his illusion of lies, could now be deflected by him. He had to quickly paint you as an emotional, possibly imbalanced person who misunderstood what he had told you in the past. This would insulate you and all the info he had given you during your relationship. 'Ha, no one will listen to anything she says now.' He is safe.

P's lie to everyone. But they tell different lies to different people. Plus, half the time I don't think they keep track of who they told what to. That is why they don't want those people talking to each other. The fear of what he had told you becoming known to ANYONE was too scary for him to handle and he withdrew FAST, just in case anything you said could expose his lies.

He will hold fast to saying that he doesn't know what happened to you, when in fact everything was happening to him. That threat of even possible exposure was overwhelming for him.

It sounds like your instincts did indeed know, and I am happy you escaped relatively unscathed. You really scared him though ~~ I wonder if there was specific info that you have that he was afraid of coming to light, or if it was just that he couldn't remember what all he had told you that might cause a problem. Did you still have to testify for him?

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#3407 - 11/07/06 08:27 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Deb]
movingon Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 4
Thanks so much for your insight Deb! You really gave me a lot to chew on. I am having trouble with the thoughts of testifying on his behalf. I'm very torn. From an ethical standpoint, well from any standpoint, it would be wrong to request leniency from the judge for a man who does not deserve leniency. The sad part of it is, if I do, and the judge does depart from the recommended sentence, then I guess my P will be laughing his head off on the inside. Score one on the fool!

I HATE everything about this situation. I am so mad at myself for getting involved with him and being so gullible. It's so hard to believe that someone can mirror another's personality and be so adept at it. What is behind the mask? I know I am speaking rhetorically here. It just breaks my heart for everyone concerned. You just want to find some redeemability in everyone, and when all signs point to NO, it just confuses the crap out of me.

I continue to try to find alternative explanations. Reconciling the fact that someone you let in and you bonded with so closely and cared for so deeply doesn't care if you live or die as long as you serve their needs, and can discard you like yesterday's garbage. What's it all for, nothing. I feel like nothing.

One question comes to mind. My P would speak about women in a very derogatory manner. Is that indicative of most male P's or do they feel that way about all people?

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#3408 - 11/07/06 09:51 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: movingon]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2789
Loc: United States
Hi movingon, luckily we have a conscience. Without a conscience, anything that suits them and it is to his/her benefit. Psychopaths seem to have a pattern of complaints about their so called rotten family or many other "tricks" to keep the victim under his control and not question why no family is in his picture. Many of them have so many women on the "hook" at a time and I would guess it would also get complicated bringing so many women around. It would also ruin the "my childhood was a disaster" sob story to explain away bad behavior. Telling bad stories to a kind person is going to elicit what the Psychopath wants, money etc. and will walk away in the wink of the eye when he has drained your existence. They have an uncanny way to read people.

Di

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#3409 - 11/08/06 06:27 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: movingon]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
Hi movingon,

As others here have said, Ps always use a "divide and conquer" strategy to great effect. It's all about control and having the upper hand to them and they will try to isolate you both from others they know and if possible from your own support network. Besides, stirring things up is just what they do recreationally - they enjoy causing distress and mayhem.

Re: your question about how Ps feel about women, in my experience male Ps are the ultimate misogynists (their charm and flattery initially disguises that). The P I dated had disparaging things to say about all his female relatives but one. Granted three of them (mother/g'ma/sis) did seem to have serious personality/character issues. The only one he seemed to like was an aunt who apparently had been kind to him as a child. My other observation is that MANY Ps seem to have troubled/twisted relationships with their mothers. It seemed to me that P projected his antipathy towards his mother on his other female relatives/acquaintances.

You just want to find some redeemability in everyone...

I can relate to that and yet it made me shudder. Ps absolutely count on that sentiment in others. IMO, good faith, goodwill, loyalty etc. are wasted upon a P....pearls before swine. The very qualities that give us our humanity are the same ones Ps use as weapons against us - tough stuff to come to terms with.

Sylvie

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#3410 - 12/06/06 07:30 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: Deb]
kludgette Offline
member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 6
My Psychopath likes to call all his friends his "Brother". He never really cut me off from his friends or family...he cut off most of his old friends after we were together 2 months (he burned bridges so to say). He never excluded me from family...but did get upset if I talked to his mom on the phone. I was told I was never to talk to her on the phone other than to say "I'll have Nate call you when he gets home" - if he wasn't home. He felt we would talk about him behind his back. He excluded me from my friends...that became his friends after the birth of our daughter. I do think that was so they wouldn't tell me what he was up to while I was home pregnant. I don't think he cheated "all the way", but I bet he was close. This was a sore spot for me as I liked to get out every now and then. He told me once, "your a mom now, you need to stay home and take care of our daughter". Then he'd leave. Drinking problem on top all the other problems he had.

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#3411 - 02/24/07 04:45 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: kludgette]
sylvie25 Offline
member

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 325
I am a huge movie buff and I have to mention a couple of movies I saw recently that featured psychopaths as one of the main characters.

The first was "The Vanishing" with Jeff Bridges, Sandra Bullock and Kiefer Sutherland. It's an old movie (1990). I saw it back then too but at that time I really didn't know much about socially-adept Ps even though I was sitting next to one while watching it (Psychopath ex) . It would have been interesting observing his reactions!

The next one was "Bad Influence" with Rob Lowe and James Spader. I've seen this one before too but couldn't remember much. Lowe plays the psychopath and does an absolutely masterful job of portraying its traits - recklessness, lack of empathy, disregard of others rights, extreme vengefulness and FLAT emotional affect. He was a particularly good choice because of his pretty boy looks - a worthwhile and sinister reminder that anyone can be a Psychopath.

Just a note of caution: I found one part of "Bad Influence" HIGHLY disturbing so perhaps you should read a review beforehand.

I find it helpful to watch these just to compare and contrast with "my" Ps.

Sylvie

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#3412 - 02/25/07 12:36 AM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sylvie25]
tkme Offline
member

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 16
"What's it all for, nothing. I feel like nothing."

You are NOT nothing, he is nothing - like there's no one home inside. There ARE people out there with no conscience, no empathy - like a four year old in an adult body.

You feel like nothing only because he indirectly pushes you to feel guilty, worthless. Believe in what you see. Indirect abuse is still abuse. He does it intentionally to build himself up. He's nothing but a bully. He controls you by devaluing you. You have a choice as to whether or not to believe him or not. You have a choice as to whether or not he affects your self esteem. And you have the alternative to walk away. It REALLY feels good to do that. Anything is better than what you are living with. And you can't explore if you're voluntarily stuck in a bear trap.

He lives for the second with no goals in mind except for what he sees as instant gratification for him. You are giving him WAY too much credit for intelligence. It just ain't there.

A four year old is cute and you want to mother him. A four year old in a man's body - not so cute.

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#3413 - 03/22/07 02:33 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: sarah]
mia76 Offline
member

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 1
Hello, I am new here and I started doing research on psychopaths when I found a reference to psychopaths in a book when I had problems with someone who I just thought as 'ambitious'. She (a now famous writer in my country) plagiarized my novel and got published. Because she's well known she has access to having her novels published faster while MY NOVEL was still in the waiting list. By the time my novel is read I am accused of copying her. It's so frustrating...

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#3414 - 03/22/07 06:21 PM Re: General Discussion - Part Three [Re: mia76]
denfox Offline
member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 82
Hi mia76,

Do you have any records of your book, dated materials, showed an earlier draft to another friend, etc? Sounds like you maybe need a lawyer.

Hope to hear more from you.

Sincerely,
denfox

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